<< 21-07-2026 >>
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13:26:44FromDiscord<tempestro> In reply to @11clock "Nim doesn't let you": oh, right↵This would work for object fields, but not for naked variables↵Makes sense
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21:41:06FromDiscord<11clock> Unfortunately I determined that Nim doesn't neatly fit my needs. It is a really cool language, but I keep running into weird edge cases and little design quirks here and there. Also doesn't help that the LSP randomly crashes.↵↵It may be in a better place with Nim 3, so I'll check back later. This language has a lot of promise, just needs a little more maturity.
21:42:26FromDiscord<11clock> Part of it is probably just me trying to force my coding style from a different language, but I am not aiming to change how I code at this time.
21:44:04FromDiscord<11clock> Nim 3 sounds like it'll have much more stable tooling.
21:44:55FromDiscord<nasuray> In reply to @11clock "Part of it is": It definitely feels like you have experienced a lot of friction attempting to import paradigms you are used to that don't cleanly map to the semantics of the language
21:45:51FromDiscord<11clock> Yeah I think what I need is a language more in the family that I am accustomed to, just... better.
21:46:22FromDiscord<11clock> At least until I decide to try to change how I structure my code.
21:46:26jjidoPython?
21:47:16FromDiscord<11clock> Python would be a contender if it was faster. PyCharm is a fantastic IDE, as all JetBrains IDEs are.
21:47:35jjidoI mean are you accustomed to it
21:47:50FromDiscord<11clock> Crystal may be an option but it seems really immature at this time.
21:48:02FromDiscord<11clock> In reply to @jjido "I mean are you": C# is my main language.
21:48:38FromDiscord<_timurski> In reply to @11clock "Yeah I think what": learning more styles is overall a great way to mature as a programmer
21:49:02FromDiscord<_timurski> staying comfortable is antithetical to learning
21:49:53FromDiscord<11clock> Hmm. The main thing I want is support for scene graph architecture. I like structuring my game objects like a scene graph.
21:51:13FromDiscord<11clock> Usually I have input, graphics, audio, etc as simple modules, while game objects are in a parent children relationship.
21:51:19jjidoNim should do the scene graph easily right?
21:53:32FromDiscord<11clock> Mostly. I have a working scene graph. It's just trying to adapt my other usual patterns on top. I was making heavy use of macros as a part of that, and the macros are I think where most of my friction lie. When something breaks it's hard to debug why.
21:54:50FromDiscord<11clock> I figured it's best to use a language that already has the features I want rather than continue to try wrestling with macro generation.
21:58:47FromDiscord<_timurski> "heavy" macro usage is really something that takes careful consideration... my personal uses for them are mostly a nim version of Clay's C DSL-esque thing and for code optimization
21:58:57FromDiscord<11clock> sent a long message, see https://pasty.ee/hLuKbwTz
21:58:58FromDiscord<_timurski> and stuff like SoA generation
22:00:08FromDiscord<11clock> (edit) "https://pasty.ee/kbskvRLz" => "https://pasty.ee/XzltnpTo"
22:00:51FromDiscord<11clock> Also took a look at Zig and Odin, those didn't take long to throw out the window lol
22:01:08FromDiscord<11clock> A little too low level for me.
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22:01:42FromDiscord<11clock> Oh yeah Swift also has a lot of the same plusses as Nim.
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22:02:43FromDiscord<11clock> Huge focus on value types, has macros, nice struct constructor syntax, elegant value type data structures.
22:03:11FromDiscord<11clock> Just wish it also had ORC, not having that is a little scary lol
22:03:22jjidoas long as your structures don't cycle
22:04:26FromDiscord<11clock> Thankfully Nim gave me some practice with that by flat out not allowing modules to be cyclic.
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23:22:56FromDiscord<bk20x> In reply to @11clock "A little too low": I haven't tried Zig, messed around with odin for a bit but didn't end up writing anything in it really. I don't think thats what put me off though, I just already knew Nim and for me its more productive and you can go as low level as you want. Nim is the only modern language ive seen that is inspired by the wirthian family of languages (Ada specifically) (Odin says it is but all i see is that they
23:23:49FromDiscord<bk20x> (edit) "is inspired by" => "takes after"
23:26:32FromDiscord<bk20x> In reply to @11clock "I've looked at some": I like Rusts ML like features, but those could be implemented in Nim in userland, just like alot of the stdlib is (there is still some magic) but it reminds me of how self hosted some CL implementations are (or really the spec in general) where alot of things that look like language features are implemented in the language itself
23:31:19FromDiscord<bk20x> In reply to @_timurski "i ran nim code": I started with Nim on windows
23:32:31FromDiscord<_timurski> In reply to @bk20x "I haven't tried Zig,": Odin and zig are very simple, as that's their philosophy, which happens to be a philosophy I dislike for personal projects but for collaborative projects there's a stronger argument
23:33:14FromDiscord<bk20x> Some programs get flagged, some dont at all, it used to be alot worse with AVs where win defender would delete my hello world right after compiling, but that isnt a problem anymore. You will still get some hits from some vendors but its all heuristic/AI detection, which you are bound to get at some point for any binary unless you have an EV cert
23:33:45FromDiscord<_timurski> I would think AI malware detection would be quite good
23:33:48FromDiscord<_timurski> if designed properly
23:34:04FromDiscord<_timurski> seems like something it could with a decent enough degree of accuracy
23:34:12FromDiscord<_timurski> so that's interesting that it's not that great
23:34:29FromDiscord<bk20x> it just tends to produce false positives but we've always had those
23:37:05FromDiscord<bk20x> god this is kinda bad tho https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1529271023147683900/image.png?ex=6a615420&is=6a6002a0&hm=424217cde6ddb3cc6de951ed8056a647c770c015c221f7cbda40ae0c5775f53e&
23:38:03FromDiscord<bk20x> might not help that my program bakes in a zip archive that contains a big SWF file and the manifest for an AIR application