| 00:01:35 | Araq | oh lol it still generates a superfluous AsgnInt to a dead register |
| 00:03:09 | EXetoC | the word superfluous is trending right now |
| 00:03:22 | Araq | yeah but I started the trend |
| 00:03:49 | EXetoC | ok you win |
| 00:03:59 | Araq | I looked it up once and not knowing how common it is in english I started a new trend |
| 00:05:11 | OrionPK | i feel like it's not uncommon |
| 00:05:19 | OrionPK | it's not archaic or anything |
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| 00:13:48 | vbtt | superfluous is superfluous |
| 00:14:04 | vbtt | you can use redundant |
| 00:14:09 | vbtt | but that too, is redundant |
| 00:14:19 | vbtt | because, they're all unnecessary |
| 00:14:53 | renesac | are you sure they aren't needed? |
| 00:15:22 | vbtt | joking, trying to play on words - superfluous, redundant and unnecessary are close in meaning. |
| 00:15:47 | renesac | yep, I added a third: "unneeded" (well, I meant to ) |
| 00:16:09 | renesac | (I would spell it wrong..) |
| 00:16:21 | vbtt | looks correct |
| 00:16:34 | renesac | yeah, but it was not my first hunch |
| 00:16:37 | vbtt | there are subtle differences perhaps |
| 00:17:05 | renesac | to many redundant letters |
| 00:17:13 | renesac | *too |
| 00:17:31 | vbtt | superfluous implies unnecessary because of a certain reason - it is excessive. |
| 00:18:24 | vbtt | btw, what is the purpose of CAAS? for editors/ides? |
| 00:18:58 | OrionPK | yep |
| 00:19:05 | OrionPK | well |
| 00:19:15 | vbtt | or something else? |
| 00:19:16 | OrionPK | i shouldnt answer so quickly |
| 00:19:44 | Araq | vbtt: how would you implement a go-like 'select' statement? |
| 00:19:45 | vbtt | i imagined the compiler compiling stuff i save to disk and auto-updating a web dashboard with 'current' compilation errors |
| 00:20:37 | Araq | each channel supports "listeners" and the select statement registers as a listener? |
| 00:20:54 | vbtt | Araq: are you asking the implementation or the semantics exposed by it? |
| 00:21:17 | Araq | implementation when all you have is condition variables |
| 00:21:49 | vbtt | hmm interesting question - never thought about it. |
| 00:22:01 | vbtt | cos you want to wait on multiple condition variables simultaneously. |
| 00:22:43 | Araq | yeah well you give the channel a pointer to your condvar |
| 00:22:57 | Araq | and then 'send' signals that |
| 00:23:00 | vbtt | perhaps - when select(a, b) is called, it attaches an additional shared condition variable to both channels? |
| 00:23:18 | Araq | yup |
| 00:24:22 | vbtt | well the channel should have a list of condvars. initially it will be empty but if you make any call that waits on that channel, it will inject a condvar (associated with this call) into the channel. |
| 00:24:52 | vbtt | and send() fires all condvars in the channel's list. |
| 00:24:56 | vbtt | anyway, i g2g now. |
| 00:25:00 | Araq | yup |
| 00:25:02 | Varriount | renesac: Are you making a BigInt implementation for Nimrod? |
| 00:25:05 | Araq | ok, same here |
| 00:25:08 | Araq | good night |
| 00:25:10 | renesac | Varriount, yes |
| 00:25:11 | vbtt | good night. |
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| 00:27:26 | * | Varriount does a jig around renesac |
| 00:27:38 | renesac | and I really need an toHex for things other than 'int' |
| 00:27:40 | renesac | :P |
| 00:27:47 | renesac | going implement it now |
| 00:28:15 | renesac | hum, though I may cast around |
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| 00:32:42 | Varriount | renesac: Are you using gmp as a base? Or a pure nimrod implementation? |
| 00:32:48 | renesac | pure nimrod |
| 00:32:53 | Varriount | Ooo |
| 00:33:15 | renesac | it's not very dificult to do the base algorithms |
| 00:33:37 | renesac | I may implement katsuraba multiplication and a fast factorial algorithm latter though |
| 00:34:09 | Araq | hell ya, kamasutra multiplication |
| 00:35:05 | renesac | Araq, in math.nim there is already a fac(), should I "C-namespace" BigNum's fac()? |
| 00:35:24 | Araq | no |
| 00:36:04 | renesac | won't it clash with normal nimrod import? |
| 00:36:24 | Araq | do we have overloading resolution or what? |
| 00:36:34 | renesac | for return type? |
| 00:36:56 | Araq | no but we have lots of other ways too |
| 00:37:01 | Araq | module.fac(x) |
| 00:37:08 | Araq | import module except fac |
| 00:37:16 | renesac | ok |
| 00:37:56 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod vm2_2 8036483 Araq [+0 ±8 -0]: renamed noStackFrame to asmNoStackFrame |
| 00:37:56 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod vm2_2 ef8a298 Araq [+0 ±9 -0]: vm2: new representation of registers |
| 00:37:56 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod vm2_2 2f64955 Araq [+0 ±4 -0]: fixed opcConv |
| 00:37:56 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod vm2_2 3918bc5 Araq [+0 ±1 -0]: simple macros work again |
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| 00:38:07 | Araq | good night |
| 00:38:11 | Araq | (this time for real) |
| 00:38:19 | dom96 | vm2_2? |
| 00:38:29 | dom96 | Why don't you just reuse the vm2 branch? |
| 00:43:56 | Varriount | vm2-2 ... Sounds like worlds 2-2 in Mario |
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| 00:53:27 | dom96 | 'night |
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| 01:24:05 | renesac | Error: type mismatch: got (BResult, string, BResult) |
| 01:24:06 | renesac | but expected one of: |
| 01:24:06 | renesac | bignum.value=(x: var BResult, val: BDigit) |
| 01:24:14 | renesac | this line: tmp.value = not tmp.value |
| 01:24:28 | renesac | if I remove the 'not' operator, the error goes away |
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| 01:25:33 | renesac | ok, I should have converted to BDigit anyway, but still, the 'string' out of nowhere was bizarre |
| 01:26:06 | renesac | problem solved |
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| 02:38:09 | skrylar | Araq: is the specialness of 'debugEcho' usable by other code? |
| 02:38:42 | skrylar | I was wondering if it was possible to put the same tag on a logging framework so one could use it in noSideEffect functions |
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| 02:50:57 | renesac | skrylar, http://forum.nimrod-lang.org/t/329/3 |
| 02:51:26 | renesac | ops |
| 02:52:17 | renesac | *it was right |
| 02:53:21 | skrylar | i'll have to test that some time later |
| 02:53:53 | skrylar | i have to think about the best way to handle multiple threads trying to log at once |
| 03:01:19 | skrylar | renesac: i also wondered about attaching effects to already defined functions |
| 03:01:44 | skrylar | like if you introduce the tag 'realtime' for realtime-safe methods, being able to stuff that on other functions you've analyzed |
| 03:01:51 | skrylar | i don't think that can be done without jinkery though |
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| 04:38:19 | ninjin | Am I correct in that as-of-yet, there is no linear algebra library for Nimrod that links to say BLAS routines? |
| 04:38:50 | ninjin | The closest thing I have found so far to a linear algebra library is: https://bitbucket.org/BitPuffin/linagl |
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| 07:17:00 | Araq | hi ninjin, I think that's correct but just ask babel |
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| 07:24:07 | Araq | hi skyfex |
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| 07:50:30 | skrylar | oh piss. lineinfo() returns a string, i thought it returned a tuple |
| 07:51:35 | Araq | yeah a tuple would make much more sense ... |
| 07:56:34 | skrylar | hrm. lineinfo() returns ???:-1,-1 anyway, and then emitting any code from a macro crashes the compiler regardless |
| 08:05:38 | skrylar | so I designed a logger for nimrod apps |
| 08:05:59 | skrylar | ncurses consuming the screen made it painfully apparent that i can't debugEcho my way to victory |
| 08:08:01 | Araq | proc log(x: varargs[string, `$`]) = myfile.writeln(x) |
| 08:08:32 | skrylar | but i have this fancy shit with customizable log pipelines and filtering now :S |
| 08:08:38 | skrylar | its too late to use cheap oneline hacks! |
| 08:08:48 | * | Araq just designed his own logging framework |
| 08:12:58 | Araq | you know ... you can also override where stack traces are produced |
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| 09:09:51 | skrylar | Araq: i had some other things i was wanting to put in; all though the line numbers one will be pending on that macro working |
| 09:10:35 | skrylar | Araq: i was also entertaining the idea of a macro one could pragma in to functions so they would print their parameters and return values (occasionally useful lisp thing), and one for partial profiling |
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| 09:45:27 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel 2caafe5 Fabio Cevasco [+0 ±1 -0]: pegs.findAll iterator fix... 2 more lines |
| 09:45:27 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel 3985f89 Fabio Cevasco [+0 ±1 -0]: Rewrote the changes to findAll using if/else |
| 09:45:27 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel e4d4d92 Andreas Rumpf [+0 ±1 -0]: Merge pull request #948 from h3rald/patch-1... 2 more lines |
| 09:50:23 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel b0bcf05 Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz [+0 ±2 -0]: Checks that exported symbols are valid C identifiers. Refs #800. |
| 09:50:23 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel 1272044 Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz [+0 ±2 -0]: Addresses issues raised on #947. Refs #800.... 4 more lines |
| 09:50:23 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel 24f5700 Andreas Rumpf [+0 ±1 -0]: Merge pull request #947 from gradha/pr_checks_bad_exported_symbols_800... 2 more lines |
| 10:05:36 | Araq | skyfex: so your solution is to disallow 'return' in 'finally'? |
| 10:07:07 | skyfex | Araq: No, not really, just thought it could be discussed. I'm going to try to solve it regardless. |
| 10:07:43 | skyfex | And the C code generator should handle it even if there were a check, or an option for a check in the semantic pass ;) |
| 10:10:54 | Araq | no I disagree. It's more important to fix the bug so that you can go on with more important bugs :P |
| 10:11:16 | Araq | so if disabling 'return' in 'finally' solves it, that is a fine solution to me |
| 10:11:48 | Araq | perfection is the enemy of the good |
| 10:13:35 | Araq | alternatively we could make 'return' in a finally consume the potential exception |
| 10:13:57 | Araq | which is what the programmer wrote anyway |
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| 10:20:39 | skyfex | Interesting, that's actually what javascript does |
| 10:20:54 | skyfex | Or.. in chrome.. I don't know if it's defined by the standard or not |
| 10:21:11 | skyfex | But it makes sense in an interpreted language at least |
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| 10:27:54 | skyfex | Ohhh.. I actually think we can't solve it with the current approach in the C generator.. to get the code to execute in the right order, we need to emit the code for the inner finally first, then the outer.. but to get the right return to execute, the return statements for the outer finally has to come first.. so it's a contradiction |
| 10:28:34 | skyfex | To handle it right, maybe return would have to throw some kind of dummy exception that could be handled by potential finally statements |
| 10:28:58 | skyfex | That might be a way to avoid code-duplication too |
| 10:36:11 | Araq | yes and modula 3 defines the semantics of 'break' and 'return' via 'raise' iirc to nail down their interactions |
| 10:36:39 | Araq | however, raising a dummy exception is a desaster for perforrmance |
| 10:36:58 | Araq | so don't fix it this way please, keep things fast |
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| 10:37:15 | Araq | if the edge case is then not supported "properly", so be it |
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| 10:59:52 | Matthias247 | zahary: can you tell me something about linker errors for a missing main function when I try to use the CAAS functionality? |
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| 11:46:15 | zahary | Matthias247: I assume you tried to recompile the project? probably the main function was indeed missing from the regenerated source code |
| 11:46:36 | zahary | I would look into the nimcache directory to see what's going on |
| 11:47:29 | Matthias247 | zahary: it looks like this: https://gist.github.com/Matthias247/9152671 |
| 11:47:54 | Matthias247 | i start caas and then ask for suggestions |
| 11:49:13 | Matthias247 | oh, typo there (min.nim), but fixing it doesn't change anything |
| 11:53:20 | zahary | suggest shouldn't really try to link the program, so that's unexpected |
| 11:53:46 | Matthias247 | yep, didn't expect that it calls gcc at all |
| 11:54:40 | Matthias247 | and the files in nimcache don't contain a main(argc, argv) ) |
| 11:56:16 | Matthias247 | if I call "compile" it will crash the server process due to the linker error. And that should not invoke gcc either beccause the nimrod code contains errors |
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| 12:17:11 | Matthias247 | zahary: and somehow the error does no longer show up from my pyhton subprocess connection to the idetools server. But it shows up when i use it from the shell |
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| 12:21:02 | NimBot | Varriount/NimLime caas d4a15d1 Matthias Einwag [+1 ±0 -0]: first caas code |
| 12:21:02 | NimBot | Varriount/NimLime caas 25b7731 Matthias Einwag [+0 ±2 -0]: Further Caas work |
| 12:21:02 | NimBot | Varriount/NimLime caas 3fd5892 Matthias Einwag [+0 ±2 -0]: Fixed bugs in the Caas branch. Now works basically - until it hangs :) |
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| 12:55:27 | dom96 | hello |
| 12:56:31 | foodoo | hello |
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| 13:03:04 | EXetoC | hello |
| 13:10:19 | rixx | hello |
| 13:11:06 | foodoo | I am foodoo and I greet my fellow Nimrodholics anonymous |
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| 13:20:01 | * | dom96 stands up |
| 13:20:19 | dom96 | My name is Dom and I am a Nimrodholic. |
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| 13:29:41 | reloc0 | i just wrote my first (non-tutorial) program in nimrod, it's a cool language. thanks :) |
| 13:31:08 | dom96 | reloc0: Awesome :D |
| 13:32:13 | reloc0 | i really like that it feels better than most other statically typed languages |
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| 13:47:11 | dom96 | hello shano |
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| 17:21:15 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel 8588d83 Dominik Picheta [+0 ±7 -0]: Implemented selector support for asyncio2. |
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| 20:08:50 | Varriount_ | Hi guys |
| 20:08:57 | * | Varriount_ is now known as Varriount |
| 20:09:07 | * | Varriount hugs NimBot |
| 20:09:12 | dom96 | hi Varriount |
| 20:09:44 | EXetoC | NimBot: while true: discard alloc(10) |
| 20:10:04 | foodoo | EXetoC: He doesn't execute code. He only logs the IRC channel |
| 20:11:14 | dom96 | EXetoC: You think that the sophisticated AI that is NimBot can be tricked this easily? You better not anger it with your foolishness. |
| 20:11:46 | Demos | well XMPP is a chat protocol and IRC also a chat protocol. Looking at the XMPP spec it seems to want to do everything reguarding chat and yet IRC is still around. I do not have a scientific paper or anything. |
| 20:11:50 | foodoo | EXetoC: yes, or the confusion of languages will be brought over you |
| 20:12:11 | foodoo | Demos: okay. Was just wondering :) |
| 20:13:28 | foodoo | Demos: But just look how crappy ICQ is. It's also still around |
| 20:14:05 | foodoo | And IRC used to be much bigger. Nowadays it's just Freenode. All the other networks are pretty much irrelevant |
| 20:14:17 | foodoo | you might still consider irc.mozilla.org relevant |
| 20:14:24 | Demos | never used ICQ. My point was that IRC is pretty good for what people use it for (big chatrooms) |
| 20:14:33 | foodoo | yeah, I like IRC |
| 20:14:38 | foodoo | But I also like Jabber |
| 20:15:02 | foodoo | If I have enough time, I actually want to try and build a Jabber client in Nimrod |
| 20:17:44 | foodoo | I think MUC in Jabber hasn't really taken off yet. That's why IRC ist still around |
| 20:18:09 | Varriount | MUC? |
| 20:18:15 | foodoo | multi user chat |
| 20:18:21 | Demos | multi-user-chat according to google |
| 20:18:26 | foodoo | (XMPP terminology) |
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| 20:18:55 | Varriount | dom96: What environment variable controls the babel path? |
| 20:19:14 | dom96 | Varriount: None do. |
| 20:19:27 | * | Varriount stares at dom96 |
| 20:20:07 | Matthias247_ | however I wonder even more why maililng lists are still used. I find them terrible :) |
| 20:20:18 | Varriount | Matthias247_: Who knows |
| 20:20:36 | dom96 | oh god I hate mailing lists. |
| 20:20:51 | * | foodoo doesn't like mailing lists either |
| 20:21:12 | dom96 | They make sense when you're only using email I guess |
| 20:21:22 | Varriount | dom96: I need a way to dictate what paths babel uses to download and install |
| 20:21:50 | Varriount | If I am to add babel support to testament |
| 20:22:26 | dom96 | Why not just do the stuff manually? |
| 20:22:41 | dom96 | Read packages.json, clone the git repos, and build the nimrod files. |
| 20:23:06 | dom96 | Well. I guess babel makes things a lot easier... |
| 20:23:35 | Varriount | Because aside from it being conveniant for testament, *I* need it for my dual-32/64 bit setup |
| 20:24:45 | dom96 | You just want to tell it where to install the packages right? |
| 20:24:58 | Varriount | And binaries. |
| 20:25:23 | dom96 | Yes, packages includes binaries. |
| 20:25:48 | dom96 | Add a switch to babel then to do that. |
| 20:28:11 | foodoo | Varriount: What is testament? (Besides another nice pun) |
| 20:34:57 | dom96 | foodoo: It's Nimrod's tester |
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| 20:35:13 | foodoo | Unit testing? |
| 20:35:43 | dom96 | It compiles and runs some of the .nim files in the tests/ dir |
| 20:35:51 | dom96 | And then generates a report. |
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| 21:00:18 | skrylar | dom96: i should have a basic logging library up on github later |
| 21:00:40 | dom96 | skrylar: I hope you realise that the stdlib already has one. |
| 21:00:49 | skrylar | dom96: i didn't see one |
| 21:00:57 | skrylar | does it log to databases and such |
| 21:01:16 | dom96 | https://github.com/Araq/Nimrod/blob/devel/lib/pure/logging.nim |
| 21:01:17 | dom96 | nope |
| 21:01:44 | skrylar | "if this library does not fulfill your needs, write your own" :P |
| 21:04:27 | dom96 | :) |
| 21:04:36 | fowl | dom96, wont the debug template interfere with when defined(debug) |
| 21:06:08 | dom96 | yes |
| 21:06:33 | dom96 | We need two separate versions of defined() IMO |
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| 21:13:54 | profmakx | isit possible to make nimrod use a compiler other than gcc? |
| 21:14:03 | profmakx | or, gcc, but under a different name |
| 21:14:07 | profmakx | like gcc46 |
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| 21:17:29 | Demos | profmakx, yes, use the --cc option when compileing |
| 21:17:58 | Demos | I think --cc:ucc will use the value of the CC env var, probably assuming gcc-like command line syntax |
| 21:18:47 | * | profmakx made a symlink gcc46 -> gcc for bootstrapping |
| 21:19:03 | dom96 | I think you may also be able to change it in the nimrod.cfg file by writing 'gcc.exe = "gcc46"' |
| 21:20:06 | profmakx | mhmpfh |
| 21:22:06 | profmakx | yeh |
| 21:22:08 | profmakx | that world |
| 21:22:11 | profmakx | worked |
| 21:22:17 | profmakx | feels less hacky |
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| 21:34:33 | renesac | where nimrod.cfg is on linux? |
| 21:34:50 | Varriount | profmakx: Symlinks ftw |
| 21:36:20 | Araq | renesac: /usr/lib/etc/whyTheFuckIsUnixStillALive |
| 21:36:44 | Matthias247_ | because there's no AraqOs? :) |
| 21:37:10 | renesac | nothing here, I did't install nimrod globally though |
| 21:37:35 | renesac | it is running from the local github clone bin path |
| 21:37:52 | Araq | I think the compiler even tells you whenever it compiles something |
| 21:38:22 | EXetoC | /usr/lib/goodalternatives?lolwut |
| 21:38:26 | renesac | oh, indeed |
| 21:39:03 | renesac | it is in /config/nimrod.cfg |
| 21:39:21 | renesac | *from the github clone dir |
| 21:39:50 | dom96 | which reminds me, the nimrod config files need to go into /etc/nimrod/ |
| 21:39:52 | dom96 | not /etc/ |
| 21:40:09 | EXetoC | oes it matter? |
| 21:41:46 | dom96 | yes. It matters for package guidelines. |
| 21:42:09 | Araq | dom96: actually I think it should go into /etc/nimrod$version |
| 21:42:17 | dom96 | Araq: no |
| 21:42:31 | dom96 | Araq: Package managers deal with versions |
| 21:43:07 | Araq | ok w/e |
| 21:43:16 | dom96 | And if you are upgrading Nimrod and the config file is different the package manager will ask you what you want to do. |
| 21:44:04 | Araq | yeah I've seen that working once or twice |
| 21:44:15 | Araq | makes no sense for a server OS bug *shrug* |
| 21:44:56 | dom96 | Araq: I pushed the code which crashes on linux. |
| 21:45:03 | dom96 | Just compile and run asyncio2 |
| 21:46:48 | Araq | perhaps later |
| 21:47:13 | dom96 | sure |
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| 22:10:12 | skyfex | Araq: What happens if raised exceptions are not popped off? Just memory leak? Is there some way I could detect that in a test for testament |
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| 22:11:08 | Araq | skyfex: sorry, I dunno. Yes that's a memory leak then |
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| 22:15:10 | skyfex | ok, we'll just have to go without a test for that then.. I think I've finally got this try-finally thing nailed. Test suites passes, but I know there's that memory leak, just need to generate that popCurrentException in the right spots |
| 22:15:54 | skyfex | Wasn't much change.. just had to do some acid to wrap my head around it ;P |
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| 22:17:35 | skyfex | Dijkstra is rolling in his grave |
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