| 00:00:02 | filwit | here's what I mean |
| 00:00:57 | Araq | var x: T # call constructor implicitly, C++ style |
| 00:00:57 | filwit | if we could define a function that allocates a type in special way and returns the reference we could have the syntax that gives you insight about he type being allocated and is easy to remember |
| 00:01:02 | filwit | so if I could make: |
| 00:01:19 | Araq | c++ style would be even better for you then, right? |
| 00:01:25 | filwit | proc new[T](...): ref T = ... |
| 00:01:50 | filwit | proc pool[T](pool:MemoryPool, ...): ref T .... |
| 00:02:00 | Araq | dom96: I don't know |
| 00:02:01 | filwit | and I could use those like: |
| 00:02:13 | filwit | var foo = new FooBar(...) |
| 00:02:29 | filwit | var bar = pool(MyPool) FooBar(...) |
| 00:02:40 | filwit | *or something along those lines* |
| 00:02:49 | Araq | well I see you want C++ |
| 00:02:59 | Araq | like constructors really |
| 00:03:04 | filwit | no, but I would like to define general purpose allocators |
| 00:03:19 | dom96 | Well we already have destructors, so why not allocators too? |
| 00:03:30 | filwit | and a way for the allocator to call "finalizers" implicitly |
| 00:03:43 | dom96 | or constructors, whatever you might want to call them. |
| 00:03:44 | Araq | filwit: zahary implemented destructors already :P |
| 00:03:54 | * | shevy joined #nimrod |
| 00:04:11 | Araq | and there is a plan for constructors |
| 00:04:13 | shevy | hmm was there always a forum? |
| 00:04:23 | Araq | it's new |
| 00:04:49 | dom96 | There was always a forum, the new one is written in Nimrod though :) |
| 00:05:08 | Araq | damn you |
| 00:05:15 | Araq | I should sleep |
| 00:05:16 | Araq | good night |
| 00:05:21 | dom96 | bye Araq |
| 00:05:30 | filwit | lol, bye |
| 00:05:43 | shevy | oh... dont think I recall the last forum |
| 00:06:12 | dom96 | It was kind of closed down because phpbb is very easily spammed... |
| 00:06:18 | filwit | I'm still not sure I see you're arguments against general purpose allocators/constructors.... but I will talk to about that later |
| 00:06:46 | shevy | oh yes |
| 00:06:53 | shevy | but that is psychological advantage too |
| 00:06:58 | shevy | to have a forum in nimrod rather than php |
| 00:06:59 | shevy | :-) |
| 00:07:06 | dom96 | indeed :D |
| 00:09:28 | zahary | btw, I only skimmed over the conversation, but you should know that nimrod now can supports syntax like |
| 00:09:28 | zahary | TFoo.new |
| 00:09:28 | zahary | if you want new to mean newly allocated reference, you can have a single generic function written like this: |
| 00:09:28 | zahary | proc new(T: typedesc): ref T = new(result) |
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| 00:11:24 | shevy | hey |
| 00:11:27 | filwit | zahary: that's good news, I didn't know about that |
| 00:11:30 | shevy | TFoo.new ... that is even valid Ruby |
| 00:12:31 | filwit | so basically i can: var foo = TFoo.new(...) |
| 00:12:57 | filwit | let me try it real quick... |
| 00:13:27 | zahary | the signature would be |
| 00:13:27 | zahary | proc new(t: typedesc{TFoo}, arg1: int, arg2: string) etc |
| 00:15:06 | dom96 | That looks pretty nice actually :O |
| 00:15:29 | dom96 | shevy: Nice kitty on your gravatar :P |
| 00:15:46 | shevy | :D |
| 00:15:51 | shevy | it was mostly a placeholder actually |
| 00:16:22 | dom96 | Good choice, it's a well known fact that everyone on the internet loves kitties. :D |
| 00:16:24 | shevy | I think I will make those iconification of the portrait |
| 00:16:58 | shevy | well, that cat was kinda special. the only survivor of her group and we fed her from the beginning with milk on our own (the mother did not accept her) |
| 00:17:13 | shevy | I mean, special milk. not human milk (hahaha) |
| 00:17:29 | shevy | dom96, something like this perhaps: https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/0ec4920185b657a03edf01fff96b4e9b?s=140&d=https://a248.e.akamai.net/assets.github.com%2Fimages%2Fgravatars%2Fgravatar-140.png |
| 00:17:34 | shevy | this is matz gravatar |
| 00:17:43 | shevy | https://github.com/mruby/mruby |
| 00:17:46 | shevy | looks a bit like anime |
| 00:18:08 | shevy | another idea could be like apeiros https://github.com/apeiros but I dunno |
| 00:18:29 | shevy | I like those iconifications more. there were some that looked like old dungeon and dragons ... nethack thingies |
| 00:18:50 | dom96 | Can't say I like matz's |
| 00:19:36 | shevy | hmm lemme check what was your gravatar |
| 00:19:43 | dom96 | Mine is an anime thing :P |
| 00:19:49 | dom96 | I should probably change it |
| 00:19:59 | shevy | yeah! anime! |
| 00:21:53 | dom96 | shevy: As I said before, you should specifically ask us questions about things you do not understand from the tutorial :) |
| 00:22:00 | filwit | Princess Mononoke > all |
| 00:22:52 | * | dom96 hasn't watched anime in such a long time... |
| 00:23:21 | dom96 | I think I got too old for it. |
| 00:23:28 | filwit | I'm not a huge anime fan, but Priness Mononoke is badass |
| 00:23:52 | * | dom96 gets :P |
| 00:25:11 | filwit | and Cowboy Beebop's pretty cool too |
| 00:25:13 | filwit | :P |
| 00:25:58 | dom96 | Pokemon ftw! |
| 00:26:00 | dom96 | :P |
| 00:26:07 | filwit | lol, no |
| 00:26:10 | dom96 | WE GOTTA CATCH 'EM ALL |
| 00:26:13 | filwit | haha |
| 00:27:02 | filwit | I never had cable TV growing up, so when I was young I used to watch "digi monsters" on public TV |
| 00:27:04 | filwit | lol |
| 00:27:30 | filwit | was such a pokemon rip-off |
| 00:28:06 | filwit | sorry, it's 'digimon' I think... |
| 00:28:16 | dom96 | lol yeah. Digimon, such a rip-off. |
| 00:28:31 | filwit | I've never actually seen (or played) pokemon |
| 00:28:36 | dom96 | I never really got into it though. |
| 00:28:51 | dom96 | Wow, you missed out on some good times. |
| 00:29:01 | filwit | so i've been told |
| 00:29:06 | dom96 | My childhood consisted of Pokemon and Beyblade :D |
| 00:30:03 | filwit | I had an odd childhood though... never went to the same school for more than 1 1/2 years |
| 00:30:42 | filwit | so if i ever met kids that where into pokemon It didn't last |
| 00:31:02 | filwit | mostly, I just saw them playing with Pokemon cards and I decided it wasn't for me |
| 00:31:18 | filwit | thought I tried to learn Magic once. I was never really into that stuff |
| 00:31:30 | filwit | though** |
| 00:32:19 | filwit | not that I have anything against them |
| 00:32:20 | Tasser | filwit, I still play magic :-) |
| 00:32:25 | Tasser | from time to time, that is |
| 00:32:49 | Tasser | the official rules with clarifications are like 50 pages |
| 00:33:17 | filwit | ya, I used to play on my friends deck when he would play, but it was too complicated for me to care much |
| 00:33:27 | filwit | cause everyone would always kick my ass |
| 00:33:36 | dom96 | The only card game I played was Yu-gi-oh lol |
| 00:33:51 | filwit | and half time time they'd be explaining why I couldn't do something or why I should do something else |
| 00:34:37 | Tasser | oh, I love complex board games :-) |
| 00:35:01 | filwit | I tried to RPG with my friends a couple of times too |
| 00:35:22 | filwit | and, even "bafted" (or however you say that) a few times |
| 00:35:22 | * | XAMPP quit (Quit: There is no such thing as coincidence, only the inevitable.) |
| 00:35:32 | filwit | you know, fake swords and shit |
| 00:35:37 | filwit | it was actually pretty fun |
| 00:36:50 | filwit | the people that do that stuff all the time are a bit to eccentric through for my tastes |
| 00:37:24 | filwit | one guy was trying to convince me he was legitly a warewolf waiting to "awaken" |
| 00:37:34 | filwit | or some crazy nonsense like that |
| 00:41:21 | Tasser | oh, I do fighting with real words :-) |
| 00:41:37 | Tasser | ehh swords |
| 00:41:47 | Tasser | the other variant would be boring |
| 00:42:37 | filwit | fencing? |
| 00:43:10 | filwit | I took a class in High school for fencing as a PE elect |
| 00:43:23 | filwit | I was a Sabor |
| 00:44:32 | filwit | or do you mean you just go out and kill your friends with real blades, LOL |
| 00:45:33 | Tasser | well, the blades are kinda real, just not sharpended :-) |
| 00:45:48 | filwit | seriously? that's pretty hard core |
| 00:45:57 | filwit | you where pads or anything? |
| 00:46:11 | Tasser | well, you just pay attention, the swords are trainig ones |
| 00:46:21 | filwit | I imagine that's gotta do some damage, even without sharpened edges |
| 00:46:31 | filwit | masks? |
| 00:46:39 | Tasser | so blunt you could call them clubs ^^ |
| 00:46:48 | filwit | are they made of metal or wood? |
| 00:46:58 | Tasser | the beginner ones wood, but the balance sucks |
| 00:47:07 | filwit | that's cool |
| 00:47:26 | filwit | you any good? |
| 00:47:57 | Tasser | only a year or so - I kinda suck against the ones who do it longer |
| 00:48:21 | filwit | ya, I remember these kids in my fencing class that had been doing it since they where yong |
| 00:48:25 | filwit | young** |
| 00:48:30 | filwit | and they're where impossible to beat |
| 00:48:43 | Tasser | the real "fighting" is done with shinais - bamboo + lacrosse armor |
| 00:49:07 | Tasser | fencing? with toothpicks? |
| 00:49:11 | filwit | lol |
| 00:49:27 | filwit | well I was Sabor, but yes the Foil is like a tooth pick |
| 00:49:46 | filwit | and even the Sabors are light, one-handed weapons |
| 00:50:04 | Tasser | yeah, google helps :-) |
| 00:50:19 | filwit | but our instructor use to say that with the right foot-work, Fencing was better than long swords because it was faster |
| 00:50:29 | filwit | cause it was faster |
| 00:50:41 | Tasser | indeed |
| 00:51:14 | Tasser | I'd like to see a fight against shield + sword against fencer |
| 00:51:31 | Tasser | depends on the armor also |
| 00:51:38 | filwit | that would be pretty click |
| 00:51:44 | filwit | slick** |
| 00:52:25 | filwit | idk though, many of our techniques where about slicing through their wrists |
| 00:52:44 | Tasser | ah, that's where the shield comes in |
| 00:52:49 | filwit | but I guess the proper armor could help a lot with that |
| 00:52:59 | Tasser | not even needed |
| 00:53:23 | filwit | well you've got to reveal your arms to swing |
| 00:53:37 | Tasser | http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/pix/buckler.jpg bit smaller than that one |
| 00:53:41 | Tasser | nope, you don't ^^ |
| 00:53:53 | Tasser | that's where techniques come in |
| 00:54:05 | filwit | aw I see |
| 00:54:13 | filwit | i was think a big sheild |
| 00:54:16 | filwit | shield** |
| 00:54:28 | Tasser | nah, you don't want to fight one-on-one with a formation shield |
| 00:54:53 | filwit | ya that's more for pikes and stuff right? |
| 00:55:12 | Tasser | nah, more like against arrows |
| 00:55:19 | filwit | i see |
| 00:55:43 | Tasser | or for formation tactics, see Romans |
| 00:55:59 | Tasser | guess why they lost all of their big fights in the woods ;-) |
| 00:56:27 | filwit | ya I see |
| 00:56:52 | Tasser | with a bit bigger shields, you can still do 1on1 - guess where the German saying 'etwas Böses im Schilde führen' comes from (carry something evil in your shield) |
| 00:57:26 | Tasser | a dagger hidden behind a shield can be quite unexpected... and evil |
| 00:57:28 | filwit | I'd imagine they had a spike on their shields |
| 00:57:46 | Tasser | nah, too heavy |
| 00:57:55 | filwit | makes sense |
| 00:58:23 | Tasser | even a buckler as the one before tires you out after half to one hour |
| 00:58:28 | Tasser | ... untrained |
| 00:58:58 | Tasser | take a big one, train a lot, after 2 hours, your arm will drop off. you want to add more weight? ^^ |
| 00:59:00 | filwit | yes well it's all about fitness at that point |
| 00:59:38 | filwit | even a book will be heavy if you hold it out for along time |
| 01:00:06 | filwit | btw Tasser, are you from the D forums? |
| 01:00:55 | Tasser | filwit, nope |
| 01:01:14 | filwit | okay, just asking cause there's someone with your name over there |
| 01:02:00 | Tasser | so I really got to switch to my secondary-new name here too :-) |
| 01:06:02 | Tasser | so gn8, need some more sleeeeeeeeeeeep |
| 01:06:50 | filwit | only 9pm over here |
| 01:10:54 | dom96 | only 2am over here :P |
| 01:39:35 | filwit | night folks |
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| 03:02:43 | dom96 | good night everyone |
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| 16:27:53 | Araq | ha, take this you "professionals" :P |
| 16:28:12 | Araq | system.gorge is here to stay :-) |
| 16:28:17 | dom96 | lol |
| 16:28:50 | shevy | george! |
| 16:28:53 | shevy | system george! |
| 16:29:07 | shevy | system pete and system tony are the next |
| 16:30:52 | Araq | we have 'slurp' and 'gorge' |
| 16:30:58 | Araq | perfect match |
| 16:31:24 | Araq | you can also use 'staticRead' and 'staticExec' ... |
| 16:31:31 | Araq | but they are not as cool |
| 16:33:42 | shevy | heeh |
| 16:33:52 | Araq | shevy: I'll answer tonight on the forum |
| 16:33:58 | Araq | but short answer now: |
| 16:34:07 | Araq | we need 2 tutorials |
| 16:34:16 | Araq | one for noobs :P |
| 16:34:29 | Araq | and one for people coming from pascal/ada/c++ ;-) |
| 16:34:41 | shevy | \o/ |
| 16:35:06 | dom96 | Maybe I'll take it upon myself to write a tutorial for newbies :) |
| 16:35:09 | Araq | and I may even write both as writing is kinda fun for me |
| 16:35:16 | shevy | hmm |
| 16:35:20 | Araq | as it requires so little debugging :D |
| 16:35:26 | Araq | but hey, you can do it too of course |
| 16:35:37 | dom96 | Araq: You can do it if you want. |
| 16:35:51 | Araq | dom96: do what? |
| 16:35:58 | dom96 | But I'm much closer to a "noob" mindset than you are :P |
| 16:36:02 | dom96 | Araq: Write the tutorial. |
| 16:36:08 | shevy | Araq, do you know _why's old ruby guide? |
| 16:36:39 | shevy | http://mislav.uniqpath.com/poignant-guide/ |
| 16:36:47 | shevy | just for one glimpse, no need to read it :P |
| 16:37:00 | shevy | hmm this link is better http://mislav.uniqpath.com/poignant-guide/book/chapter-1.html |
| 16:37:33 | shevy | there also was this haskell tutorial... not sure which one it was |
| 16:37:54 | shevy | dom96 yeah. I think it depends on what kind of tutorial one wants to have and read |
| 16:38:01 | shevy | for instance, when I came to ruby, why's guide confused me to no ends |
| 16:38:06 | shevy | but others loved it |
| 16:38:24 | Araq | the guide is crap :P |
| 16:38:28 | shevy | hehe |
| 16:38:32 | Araq | sooooo verbose |
| 16:38:36 | shevy | yeah |
| 16:38:41 | shevy | but remember that some liked it! |
| 16:39:02 | Araq | so? I like paris hilton :P |
| 16:40:21 | Araq | well obviously I do not |
| 16:40:26 | dom96 | New programmers require verbosity :P |
| 16:40:27 | Araq | but I'm sure someone does |
| 16:41:19 | dom96 | What would be nice is something like try-haskell, but we need a good REPL for that. |
| 16:41:56 | Araq | no only a fast sandboxed server :P |
| 16:44:06 | Araq | I have to go, see you later |
| 17:44:37 | * | Trix[a]r_za is now known as Trixar_za |
| 17:46:01 | Trixar_za | Actually, you're wrong Araq. You need three tutorials. One for noobs, one for people coming from other languages and one for me :P |
| 17:47:09 | Trixar_za | Well, for people like me we just need more examples. I learn by example rather than text. |
| 17:48:42 | Trixar_za | But to paraphrase Ghandi: It's better to create the examples you wish to see in the world. :P |
| 17:53:20 | dom96 | Trixar_za: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Nimrod :) |
| 17:53:38 | Trixar_za | Also dom96. I don't like verbose tutorials :P |
| 17:53:53 | shevy | noobs need the tutorial with the examples |
| 17:54:49 | Trixar_za | http://www.swaroopch.org/notes/Python |
| 17:54:54 | Trixar_za | This is a good example to me |
| 17:54:59 | Trixar_za | It's like 180 pages |
| 17:56:20 | Trixar_za | But it covers the basic and the advanced features of the Language. That's how I really learned Python. |
| 17:57:43 | Trixar_za | It's also the book I recommend. Every language should have one like a Byte of Python |
| 17:57:43 | Trixar_za | :P |
| 17:58:04 | dom96 | Someone should make Learn Nimrod the Hard Way :P |
| 17:58:19 | dom96 | Learn Python the Hard Way is by example IIRC |
| 17:58:35 | Trixar_za | Eh, I master most things the Hard Way |
| 17:58:36 | Trixar_za | :P |
| 17:59:07 | Trixar_za | Mostly because I'm either too stubborn or impatient to do it the Easy (aka Boring) Way |
| 17:59:39 | dom96 | Trixar_za: If you want particular examples, let me know and I will write them for you :P |
| 18:00:49 | Trixar_za | Hmmm |
| 18:00:57 | Trixar_za | You are allowed to remix this book |
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| 18:02:39 | Trixar_za | Sorry, I was just thinking |
| 18:02:59 | Trixar_za | What if I took the book right, but only used Nimrod instead of Python examples. |
| 18:03:00 | shevy | http://www.swaroopch.org/notes/Python_en:Basics#Double_Quotes |
| 18:03:05 | shevy | has some examples |
| 18:03:07 | dom96 | Zed Shaw released a template to make Learn X the Hard Way |
| 18:03:12 | shevy | and better look than nimrod tutorial right now :D |
| 18:03:37 | shevy | but currently python code is easier for me to understand than nimrod code, even though i did not really finish any python tutorial |
| 18:05:37 | * | Bo5cop is now known as Bo5c0p |
| 18:06:19 | Trixar_za | http://www.irc-wiki.org/Category:A_Byte_of_Python |
| 18:06:22 | Trixar_za | Bwahahaha |
| 18:06:23 | Trixar_za | It works |
| 18:09:37 | Araq | 180 pages to describe python ... wtf ... :P |
| 18:09:45 | Araq | python is quite simple ... |
| 18:10:06 | Trixar_za | lol |
| 18:10:35 | Trixar_za | It's written for beginners to more advanced coders. You can skip the bits you know |
| 18:11:00 | Trixar_za | http://www.irc-wiki.org/Python_en:Basics#The_format_Method |
| 18:11:12 | Trixar_za | Good, the <python></python> tags work |
| 18:12:14 | Araq | ugh python's new format method sucks |
| 18:12:22 | Araq | I prefer the % operator |
| 18:12:26 | Araq | was really handy |
| 18:12:33 | Araq | so I copied it ;-) |
| 18:12:37 | Trixar_za | lol |
| 18:12:44 | Trixar_za | Yeah, I used it all the time |
| 18:13:22 | Trixar_za | Examples of valid identifier names are i, __my_name, name_23, a1b2_c3 and resumÃ� ’©_count. |
| 18:13:29 | Trixar_za | ^--- yeah, my Wiki can't display that... |
| 18:15:07 | Trixar_za | This also keeps wanting to use <source lang=""> |
| 18:15:23 | Trixar_za | I implemented language tags so I don't have to use that lame method |
| 18:15:46 | Araq | nimrod has docgen built-in |
| 18:15:48 | Araq | you can do: |
| 18:15:54 | Araq | .. code-block:: nimrod |
| 18:16:01 | Araq | echo "summ summ di dumm" |
| 18:17:11 | Trixar_za | I noticed. I even messed with it a bit too |
| 18:23:00 | * | Trixar_za looks at some of the undone Rosetta stone examples |
| 18:23:12 | Trixar_za | I might try my hand at them |
| 18:23:13 | Trixar_za | :P |
| 18:23:17 | Trixar_za | like the 100 doors one |
| 18:23:34 | dom96 | They are quite fun. |
| 18:25:45 | Trixar_za | http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:Nimrod_User |
| 18:25:47 | Trixar_za | lol |
| 18:25:51 | Trixar_za | Just you dom96 |
| 18:26:07 | * | dom96 sings I'm so lonely... |
| 18:26:42 | Araq | nobody uses nimrod as it's not as convenient as C# yet ... XD |
| 18:27:22 | Araq | and people are suprised that a lonesome hacker can't produce a competive compiler in his spare time |
| 18:28:46 | Araq | there is a *team* working *full time* on the C# compiler ... |
| 18:29:38 | Trixar_za | C# greatest problem is that it depends on the .NET libraries |
| 18:29:55 | Araq | C#'s initial design is also a problem |
| 18:29:55 | Trixar_za | Mind you, I would say the same about Java :P |
| 18:30:06 | Araq | it started copying Java and it still shows |
| 18:30:08 | Trixar_za | That and C# keeps changing |
| 18:30:30 | Araq | they should have started with delphi instead ... |
| 18:30:47 | Trixar_za | lol |
| 18:30:47 | Araq | but it changes for the better |
| 18:31:01 | Araq | the new stuff is much better in general |
| 18:31:14 | Trixar_za | True, but I rather not use a language that keeps changing critical libraries with each version |
| 18:31:46 | Trixar_za | If it wasn't backed by Microsoft, I doubt most people would bother using it or rewriting their older code the whole time |
| 18:32:10 | Araq | we don't rewrite our older code the whole time at work ... :P |
| 18:32:26 | Araq | IMO compatibility is pretty good |
| 18:32:31 | Trixar_za | Blood traitor |
| 18:32:32 | Trixar_za | :P |
| 18:32:42 | Trixar_za | But yeah, C# isn't so bad |
| 18:33:01 | Trixar_za | Way better than say VB.Net |
| 18:33:09 | Trixar_za | and easier to learn than C++ |
| 18:33:27 | Araq | nowadays VB.NET is merely a more verbose syntax for C# |
| 18:33:40 | Araq | well I think, I never used VB.NET in fact |
| 18:36:10 | dom96 | There are some core differences, VB.NET is for example case insensitive while C# is not. |
| 18:37:46 | Araq | really? interesting |
| 18:37:58 | Araq | I thought they made it sensitive for C# compat |
| 20:22:15 | * | Trixar_za is now known as Trix[a]r_za |