<< 22-10-2017 >>
00:01:36FromGitter<kdheepak> @zetashift and in Nim ⏎ ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=59ebdfdfd6c36fca317ecc2e]
00:04:21FromGitter<kdheepak> @zetashift what did you mean by py2nim incoming?
00:05:49FromGitter<zetashift> it was a silly joke, I tend to make those after midnight
00:06:01Yardanicolol
00:06:07YardanicoI though you was referring to my nimpylib
00:06:18Yardanicohttps://github.com/Yardanico/nimpylib it's a PoC mostly
00:06:25Yardanicohttps://github.com/Yardanico/nimpylib/blob/master/examples/example.nim
00:06:28Yardanicohttps://github.com/Yardanico/nimpylib/blob/master/examples/example2.nim
00:06:38FromGitter<zetashift> it was a play on c2nim whcih goes from C to Nim
00:07:24FromGitter<zetashift> I saw it! I'm still a grasshopper in Nim so I can't use all the libs yet, also I don't know jack about python but it's hella easier than when I tried to learn C++ and got scared to program(this is true)
00:07:53Yardanicothis nimpylib doesn't parse python code
00:08:06Yardanicobecause most of the time python ast is valid nim ast
00:08:20Yardanicohttps://github.com/Yardanico/nimpylib/blob/master/examples/example2.nim
00:08:25Yardanicoas you can see here :)
00:08:40FromGitter<zetashift> yea it's just python modules to nim in a sense right?
00:09:15Yardanicowell almost
00:09:28FromGitter<zetashift> from the example it seems some semantics too
00:09:43Yardanicowell nim semantics can't be changed
00:09:55Yardanicoprint is a macro for example
00:09:58FromGitter<zetashift> not even with macros?
00:10:03Yardanicoyes
00:10:06Yardanicomacros can't change the semantics
00:10:18FromGitter<zetashift> I should probably start reading the advanced topics in Nim in Action one of these days
00:10:42Yardanicoor wait
00:10:46Yardanicomaybe they can
00:10:52Yardanicomaybe I read this from somewhere :P
00:11:21Yardanicowell they can't change nim syntax
00:11:47FromGitter<kdheepak> @Yardanico nimpylib is impressive :)
00:24:47YardanicoI actually want to try to implement https://github.com/Yardanico/nimpylib/issues/3
00:24:55Yardanicoit can be possible indeed, and would be very cool
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00:38:48FromGitter<kdheepak> @araw
00:39:25YardanicoHe's Araq, not araq :)
00:40:01Yardanico*not araw
00:40:34FromGitter<Yardanico> @kdheepak ah bah
00:40:41FromGitter<Yardanico> your message wasn't sent to IRC
00:40:49FromGitter<Yardanico> try to send it again
00:40:59FromGitter<kdheepak> Shoot. I accidentally hit enter here in gitter, and edited the comment. But the IRC bot would have not sent it. I'll send the message again.
00:43:10FromGitter<kdheepak> @Araq, I have a question about the nlvm (https://github.com/arnetheduck/nlvm) package. Taking a closer look at this, this package appears to be a frontend for LLVM IR. Do you envision long term having LLVM, C, CPP and JS support for Nim? Also, (question is in general for people), anyone here familiar enough with LLVM IR to know if there are concepts in Nim that will be difficult (or not possible?) to support?
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00:45:00FromGitter<Yardanico> I think Nim can't have LLVM backend as a fourth one (at least currently), because: it would be hard to maintain backends (it's already hard to do it now), LLVM would be something like a JS backend - e.g. some stdlib modules wouldn't have support for it, because they use C headers/libraries.
00:46:40FromGitter<Yardanico> Also I really think (and I think Araq agrees that this needed but VERY HARD to do) we need an almost FULL compiler rewrite, because current one is not easy to maintain (initally whole compiler was written in Pascal and then translated by pas2nim to Nim, so some parts of it are VERY ugly)
00:46:56FromGitter<Yardanico> but if this will ever happen, it will happen for nim 2.0
00:47:04FromGitter<kdheepak> @Yardanico why wouldn't it work because of C headers/libraries (just trying to understand).
00:47:36FromGitter<zetashift> can't you just get LLVM support through Clang?
00:47:48FromGitter<Yardanico> @zetashift that's another thing
00:48:05FromGitter<Yardanico> clang compiles C/C++ to LLVM
00:48:17FromGitter<Yardanico> nlvm is a backend for nim to allow compiling nim to llvm
00:48:29FromGitter<Yardanico> it wouldn't make any sense to use clang for this
00:48:44FromGitter<Yardanico> @kdheepak because LLVM doesn't allow including C headers/libraries
00:49:28FromGitter<Yardanico> so some stdlib modules will be not available on LLVM backend
00:49:30FromGitter<Yardanico> e.g. times module
00:49:33FromGitter<kdheepak> LLVM should support dynamically loading c libraries, correct?
00:49:44FromGitter<Yardanico> @kdheepak yes, but that's harder than current nim's importc
00:50:06FromGitter<kdheepak> Current nim's importc does not use FFI?
00:50:30FromGitter<Yardanico> importc just "imports" some C struct/function/etc and puts it into generated C directly
00:50:47FromGitter<kdheepak> Oh, it links symbols directly?
00:50:57FromGitter<kdheepak> I think I understand.
00:50:59FromGitter<kdheepak> Hmmm.
00:51:39FromGitter<Yardanico> e.g. ⏎ proc myproc(a, b, c: cint): cint {.cdecl, importc.} ⏎ ⏎ would assume there's myproc available on C side, which accepts a, b, c integers and returns an integer [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=59ebeb9b210ac2692016458f]
00:52:29FromTwitch<yardanico> I forgot to disable this bridge :P
00:53:27FromGitter<kdheepak> @Yardanico I wonder how Julia does this?
00:54:01Yardanicofrom julia docs: The code to be called must be available as a shared library.
00:54:16Yardanicoso you can't for example use mktime function from time.h
00:54:49Yardanicowell you can
00:54:51Yardanicovia libc
00:55:48FromGitter<kdheepak> So basically in Julia, everything from standard c libraries is set up only using shared libraries?
00:56:06Yardanicoyep
00:56:21Yardanicohttps://docs.julialang.org/en/release-0.4/manual/calling-c-and-fortran-code/
00:57:00FromGitter<kdheepak> General question: Is there a disadvantage of using shared libraries vs importing them directly? I'm assuming that importing and including the libraries are more efficient?
01:02:57FromGitter<zetashift> no I ment can't you use the generated C by Nim and then run that through Clang?
01:03:55FromGitter<kdheepak> @zetashift you can. But if you wanted to create a JIT with a REPL for Nim @Araq suggested earlier that going down the LLVM as a backend for Nim might be the best way.
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01:18:11FromGitter<khogeland> I've run up against a GC bug (mine or Nim's, can't tell) that I'm not equipped to debug
01:18:18Yardanicoare you sure it's a GC bug?
01:18:27Yardanicowhat's the stack trace? please make a gist wit hti
01:18:31Yardanico*with it
01:18:31FromGitter<khogeland> Yes: https://gist.github.com/khogeland/15d808b58cb6f83aec66fe30b4f0dd63
01:18:50FromGitter<khogeland> Haven't been able to get a minimal repro.
01:19:58FromGitter<khogeland> (Have tried running that same `searchAlbums` proc forever in a spawned thread the same way I'm doing here, but there's something different that I'm not seeing)
01:20:53Yardanicohmm is the code open-sourced?
01:21:12YardanicoAraq might be very interested in this bug, because he fixes all GC bugs :)
01:21:21FromGitter<khogeland> https://github.com/khogeland/omnim/blob/master/ui/ui.nim#L22
01:21:48Yardanicoyou're using unsafeAddr and ptr's here
01:21:49Yardanicohmm
01:21:57FromGitter<khogeland> And the `spawn` on L43
01:22:01Yardanicoyeah I saw that
01:22:29YardanicoI think that *might* be because you pass pointers to another thread
01:22:35Yardanicoit's not generally safe
01:23:11FromGitter<khogeland> Sure, but the call that is causing that error is the only thing *not* using any of those pointers.
01:24:03FromGitter<khogeland> Rather, it doesn't look like it is, but I don't know if the scope variables in passed procs are deep copied
01:31:37Yardanicoyou can make an issue on github
01:32:36FromGitter<khogeland> I came here because I haven't been able to find a repro that doesn't involve running MPD and my application 
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01:33:01FromGitter<khogeland> Will create an issue though.
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01:40:28libmanYardanico: (sorry, missed your question above) no need to mention license in the source code at all, just a LICENSE file as detected by GitHub and in nimble.
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08:14:18Araqkhogeland: spawn searchHandler(unsafeAddr listPane, searchProc, addr query, addr uiLock)
08:14:25Araqis wrong
08:14:55Araqcausing a corruption and corruptions are not local so a stack trace inside the GC doesn't mean you found a GC bug
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08:35:14FromGitter<mratsim> @kdheepak for your data science visualization needs, NimData (eq. Pandas) generates an HTML page that is easier to use (search/sorting) than jupyter display. And in arraymancer-vision you get Facebook Visdom to display images
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08:36:12FromGitter<mratsim> It's not Jupyter but at least it's not nothing ;)
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09:25:12FromGitter<khogeland> @Araq Like I said originally, it is a GC bug, i.e. a bug in my code due to poor understanding of Nim's GC
09:25:45planetis[m]whatever
09:28:02FromGitter<khogeland> But I think I get why that was happening anyway. Do to my unsafe references to variables in the other heap, I was creating objects in that heap that would be reaped on the next GC due to their only references being in the spawned thread
09:28:47FromGitter<khogeland> I have a better design in mind now that I've done more reading
09:29:51FromGitter<khogeland> (i.e. one that will actually work and is safe )
09:33:29FromGitter<khogeland> I'm still a noob at actually having to understand and deal with memory safety, having spent the vast majority of my time with JVM languages and Python. This is a great learning experience.
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10:14:15FromGitter<mratsim> @khogeland Omnisearch for MPD, that means that it search in album/title/comment/artists all at the same time? Interesting, I’ve always been on how to replace Foobar2000 on Mac/linux … Maybe I’ll write an audio player in Nim someday ...
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10:26:59FromGitter<khogeland> @mratsim Yeah, I found that feature very useful when I was using fb2k. Originally I was hoping I'd be able to add it as an extension to rofi, but rolled my own UI instead.
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10:58:08miranquick question - how to convert TaintedString (when you read from a file) to the regular string?
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10:59:33miranignore the question above. i just needed `.string`
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11:03:44PMunchThat, or $
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11:07:24dom96.string is the correct usage
11:09:04PMunchOh, why not $?
11:10:26dom96well, it's easier to overlook $, and since we're dealing with TaintedString it's better to be explicit.
11:10:41dom96Plus, I bet $ has some overhead
11:10:56PMunchHmm, fair point
11:39:23dom96yay, nice to see in my Twitch stats that the avg number of viewers is increasing with each stream :)
11:49:51Arrrr"each proc that has a var of a type which is handled by a destructor needs a hidden try finally block" Hope v1 becomes a thing before this new runtime is introduced
11:52:14mirandom96: should i change the parameters' names in all functions in `sequtils` to more descriptive ones like you proposed?
11:52:27dom96miran: In a separate PR, sure.
11:52:39miranwill do
11:55:45dom96thanks
11:55:50dom96:)
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12:40:28mirandom96: would other sequtils functions also benefit from changing `seq` to `openArray`? if just some of them - which ones do you propose?
12:43:24dom96hrm, to be honest I don't really know.
12:43:28dom96Just change yours for now
12:43:39miranok
12:44:10Arrrralmost every single one of them would
12:45:17miranok then - which ones wouldn't? :)
12:47:27ArrrrConcat, keepIf, delete.
12:47:32ArrrrThey are hard to adapt to openArray
12:58:43miranfor now i created a PR with just name changes. changing to openArray can be part of some other PR when there is consensus on what to change (cc dom96)
13:00:27dom96Looks good, thanks
13:03:14AraqPMunch, taintedString has no $ I hope
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13:03:37Araqthat would defeat its purpose a bit
13:03:47miranAraq: i've tried and i could use $ with tainted
13:03:51PMunchHmm, good point
13:03:58Araqdom96, $ for strings TaintedString is a nop
13:04:09Araqit has no overhead
13:05:16Araqmiran, with --taintMode:on ?
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13:08:05miranAraq: with the default settings
13:09:01miran...which should be `on` from what i can read
13:10:20Araqno it is off :-)
13:11:34miranoh, ok then :)
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13:28:16miranAraq: your opinion about changing types to `openarray` in sequtils to increase the functionality?
13:29:07Araqseems ok but it's only a step in the right direction until we get an Iterable concept that works
13:29:18YardanicoAraq, what do you mean by "works?" :)
13:29:27Yardanicoit already works with latest zahary changes
13:29:33AraqYardanico, you said it doesn't work yet?
13:29:46YardanicoAraq, It didn't work with arrays before zahary fixed it
13:29:51Yardaniconow it works with arrays too
13:30:21Yardanicoiterable type should only implement items, yes? or indexed access too?
13:33:32AraqIterable --> items; Literable --> items + len ?
13:34:31Araqbut I guess we don't need Literable, you can always use 'when compiles(x.len)' inside to optimize it further
13:34:40FromGitter<x86128> Hello,trying to register on forum, but not received confirmation email. Pls check. Email on google domain.
13:34:54Yardanicocc dom96
13:35:03Yardanicohe'll verify you manually :)
13:35:10dom96x86128: what's your username?
13:35:16FromGitter<x86128> Yes
13:35:30Yardanicoyes?
13:35:39dom96presumably x86128 :)
13:35:40FromGitter<x86128> X86128
13:35:47dom96fixed
13:36:00dom96(I confirmed you manually)
13:36:03FromGitter<x86128> Thanks
13:37:11YardanicoAraq, but how can procs return concept type?
13:37:44Araqthey cannot
13:37:48dom96Literable?
13:37:49dom96what
13:37:53dom96Call it countable
13:37:55YardanicoAraq, so they will return sequence?
13:38:01Araqdom96, whatever ok
13:38:17AraqYardanico, what else, it's 'sequtils'?
13:38:22Yardanicoah, probably yes :P
13:43:49dom96Araq: What have you done to the {.pure.} pragma?
13:44:28FromGitter<mratsim> Call it Enumerable please
13:44:37FromGitter<mratsim> Countable or Literable geez :P
13:44:49YardanicoIterableWithLen :D
13:46:37FromGitter<mratsim> And when Enumerable is done, it can replace openarray: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/6528
13:48:32Yardanicoehh, compiler crashes again :P
13:48:42FromGitter<x86128> Pls, point me some document for Nim standard library hackers. Need to run tests for sleepAsync function from asyncdispatch module with my attempts to use addTimer func from selectors module. 
13:49:16YardanicoAraq, anything wrong here? https://gist.github.com/Yardanico/0146665df88e0d1658b07084050f1849
13:49:34Yardanico(it crashes the compiler, as usual :P)
13:49:56FromGitter<mratsim> Or maybe as an alternative to Enumerable, Indexable may be even more explicit
13:50:58PMunchHmm, is in not possible to put a compileTime proc into a static Table?
13:51:21FromGitter<mratsim> Or actually: Iterable —> implements items, Enumerable —> implements items + pairs + len, Indexable —> Implements `[]`
13:53:31Araqdom96, something good?
13:54:23dom96I don't get it. You don't have to prefix enum names even when {.pure.} is specified?
13:59:19AraqYardanico, told you it's not yet fixed. I just fixed it though, it was easy
13:59:25PMunchhttps://pastebin.com/n5M3XEz8
13:59:34PMunchWhy does this make the compiler spin infinitely?
13:59:42YardanicoAraq, probably changed skipTypes somewhere ? :)
14:01:43AraqYardanico, something like that
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14:03:38Araqdom96, pure enum field names get their own scope that is queried if the name was not found in any other scope
14:04:09Araqso as long as nothing else clashes with it you can use these names without the Enum. prefix
14:04:35dom96So now the only difference is that I cannot use a prefix for non-pure enums
14:04:56Araqer, sure you can
14:04:56dom96This behaviour should be implemented for non-pure enums and pure enums should have been left alone
14:05:19dom96so what's the difference between pure/non-pure enums now?
14:05:21Araqwell the point is to remove the whole distinction between the two enum types
14:05:57dom96er, so you've basically removed {.pure.}?
14:07:09FromGitter<mratsim> So this should be updated: https://nim-by-example.github.io/types/enums/
14:07:27PMunchPure was nice though..
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14:07:44dom96It is nice.
14:07:48AraqI unified the two concepts, not sure why you don't understand it
14:07:57dom96Which is why I'm trying to understand what the purpose of Araq's changes is
14:08:09FromGitter<mratsim> It should be named “qualified” instead of pure though.
14:08:09Araq"pure was nice though", omg you can still prefix them all you want
14:08:23PMunchBut you can't force people to..
14:08:27dom96indeed
14:08:32PMunchI thought that was the entire point of pure
14:08:39dom96precisely
14:08:43Araqthe point was to prevent clashes
14:08:50PMunchTo say: this symbol doesn't make any sense without the enum name
14:09:10dom96But you've just said that you can prefix non-pure enums too
14:09:21dom96so if there are clashes you can prevent them
14:09:31PMunchAnd what happens if you have "OneEnum.test" and "AnotherEnum.test", both marked as pure. What will test refer to?
14:09:38FromGitter<mratsim> you will still get “ambiguous call” though? I guess it’s the same discussion as {.this:this.} pragma
14:09:56Araqit never was about enforcing rules, it was about preventing clashes
14:10:14Araqnobody wants these rules anyway:
14:10:17Araqcase e
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14:10:24Araqof SomeEnum.valueA:
14:10:28Araqof SomeEnum.valueB:
14:10:38dom96I do
14:10:44Araqof SomeEnum.valueC: echo "just kill me already"
14:10:57dom96Sometimes it makes sense to have a short enum value name
14:11:04dom96and then a qualifying prefix that is long
14:11:19dom96In that case I want to force the user of my library to prefix the enum
14:11:46Araqyeah, that is exactly what Nim is NOT about
14:11:55Araqyour users are adults.
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14:13:22Araqif foo in {SomeEnum.short, shortToo, shorter}
14:13:38Araq# ^ context is everything
14:16:27PMunchHmm, I still feel this should be handled somehow else..
14:16:51dom96okay, then we should get the ability to enforce this when importing enums
14:17:36dom96btw my book mentions the pure pragma
14:18:19PMunchTBH, that shouldn't be a factor in the language design
14:18:30PMunchOf course it's not good, but such is life..
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14:19:22dom96True.
14:20:01Araqpeople argued that every enum should be pure and then we should have special rules in 'case' and set literals to be able to avoid the prefix
14:21:06PMunchThat makes more sense..
14:21:13Araqbut this doesn't work well, what about [value: "a", valueB: "b"] array constructions
14:22:51PMunch"SomeEnum.[value: val1, valueB: val2]" for "type SomeEnum = enum val1, val2"
14:23:05PMunchSame for set
14:23:49PMunchCase is the only special thing
14:24:37Araqthat's not true at all
14:25:41Araqin Karax for example the problem comes up all the time too, we want a CSS "enum" without the prefixes that yet doesn't clash
14:26:11AraqregisterEvent(onclick, proc ...)
14:26:28Araq# ok, onclick is nothing unexpected here
14:26:55AraqregisterEvent(Event.onclick, proc ...) # some other onclick clashed so I need to write it out
14:27:23dom96It's hard to tell that `onclick` is an enum type
14:27:33dom96it could be a procedure
14:27:41Araqit's superior to your "I want to enforce it everywhere until I figured out that's a horrible idea"
14:27:43dom96forcing the prefix makes it clearer
14:27:49dom96It makes the code far more readable
14:27:54PMunchAgreed
14:28:03Araqno, I disagree and Nim doesn't work this way
14:28:20miranprefix *sometimes* makes things clearer
14:28:33Araqeverything else in the language doesn't work this way either anyway
14:28:41dom96But sadly this indeed isn't how Nim was designed
14:29:37AraqEvent.onclick # you don't know anything about enums here, could also be ModuleName.onclick
14:29:38PMunchFair enough
14:31:41PMunchAnyways, know why the compiler enters an infinite loop in my example?
14:32:04PMunchhttps://pastebin.com/n5M3XEz8
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14:34:57Araqno but I doubt it should work
14:35:02miranwhile we're at stuff that's (not) Nim-like, i'll try to pitch my idea about new case syntax once more :)
14:35:25miranthoughts? https://gist.github.com/anonymous/b7cf1316c54e645aa723bfa25a67347a (cc Araq)
14:36:24Araqhard to implement
14:36:34Araq(I think)
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14:36:56miranwhich part? _ instead of else, or `of` just once at the top?
14:37:50miranit looks cleaner to me, and it is similar to pascal/delphi (which are listed as nim's inspirations, iirc)
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14:50:49dom96Araq: well... I sort of do. I know it's a type because types start with a capital letter (by convention) :)
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14:55:31Araqnah, people start to use FooBar as module names and we don't enforce the convention. btw I don't really like CapitalCase for types anyway
14:55:47dom96I love it
14:56:04dom96Why do you dislike it?
14:56:34Araqit's pointless, types are what comes after the colon in Nim
14:58:04Araqif colors help in understanding code do wrong colors make matters worse?
14:58:14dom96not only after a colon
14:58:33Araqcause VS Code does the coloring wrong and I don't really care
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15:33:24Lattayhi
15:33:32YardanicoLattay, hi
15:34:37Lattayi'm using nim for few days and i really like a lot of features, i heard the 1.0 is planned but is there any dead line ?
15:34:52YardanicoLattay, there's none, but Araq is planning to release it at the end of the year
15:35:06Yardanico(I mean there's no public deadlines)
15:35:16Yardanicomaybe Araq has its' own
15:35:37Lattayok nice so the syntax will be fixed after that isn't it ?
15:35:38miranLattay: just enjoy the language and ignore the version number ;)
15:35:48YardanicoLattay, syntax wouldn't change much
15:36:01Yardanico(I don't think it would change at all)
15:36:30Lattayjust asking beacause i seen some discuss about redesigning case for exemple
15:36:45mirannah, that was just me and my ideas :)
15:37:08miranbut i would really much like to see that in v1.0, but it's not me who decides
15:37:21Lattayok, that wasn't a bad one by the way
15:37:29miranthanks! :)
15:38:26Lattayindeed there is a lot of details that make me said "yes very good language but why that choice !?"
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15:39:23miranyeah, that's why i'm hoping v1.0 will come as late as possible - to iron out all the small details before it is too late
15:40:53Lattayyeah i agree with you, there is some details that lack of coherence and that is some times a bit weird
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15:42:59Lattaythe worst choice imho is the import system that implicitly import all in current namespace
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15:43:40Lattayand that's even more frustrating since it's a real pleasure to code with nim
15:43:55YardanicoLattay, it's really easier to me to code with that types of imports
15:44:05Yardanicoyou can still have python-like imports
15:44:10Yardanico"from module import nil"
15:44:20Yardanicoand you'll need to prefix every usage of every identifier from that module
15:45:25Lattayyeah you're right but still i feel it weird in this way (but i am a python guy)
15:45:41YardanicoI was a python guy too
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15:45:49Yardanicobut now I really like these imports :P
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15:50:51miranone more python guy here
15:51:29Yardanicohttps://github.com/Yardanico you can check in my github that I was a python guy
15:52:14mirani got used to these imports too, but definitely wouldn't mind if there was `from foo import bar` syntax
15:52:23Yardanicothere is
15:52:32Yardanicoit just doesn't work for overloading sometimes
15:52:39Yardanicoe.g. from tables import `[]`
15:53:57Yardanicoso, to use tables you must at least
15:53:58Yardanicofrom tables import Table, TableRef, newTable, `[]`, `[]=`
15:54:04Yardanicofrom tables import TableRef, newTable, `[]`, `[]=`
15:57:34miranyou make a valid point
15:58:00Yardaniconim heavily relies on overloading and generics
15:58:27Yardanicoso "from x import a, b, c, d" doesn't really fit Nim
15:58:28dom96unfortunately while I do myself wish imports were explicit, a lot of the language would need to be changed for that to work
15:58:52dom96Nim would need to get traditional OOP
15:59:05Yardanicoyeah
15:59:19dom96And there would need to be a special rule for procedures that are operators
15:59:24Yardanicolike in python
15:59:37dom96(although I guess that could be solved by traditional OOP too)
15:59:45Yardanicodom96, as in python, you just import class
15:59:54Yardanicoyou can't change import syntax in nim IMO, it's too late :)
15:59:59dom96But then you get a similar problem.
15:59:59Yardanicobut it's fine
16:00:12dom96myObject.func()
16:00:18dom96I still don't know where 'func' is defined
16:00:23dom96At least not immediately
16:00:46dom96I'd have to find where 'myObject' is defined
16:01:03dom96myObject = module.MyClass()
16:01:13Yardanicowell we can't change nim core language :)
16:01:18mirancouldn't this be solved with:
16:01:29Yardanicomaybe for nim 2.0 or nim 3.0 (if that would be a thing)
16:01:34miran`from tables import *` (per reasons Yardanico mentioned)
16:01:55Yardanicoehm
16:01:57miran`from strutils import splitlines` (for explicit import)
16:02:16dom96that wouldn't solve much
16:02:18Yardanicoas I said - this part of the language can't be changed anymore
16:02:35Yardanicoalmost every library imports stuff like "import stuff"
16:02:43miranah, true
16:03:02dom96the solution for Nim is to offer the best IDE support possible :)
16:03:07Yardanicoyep
16:03:07Yardanicobbl
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16:35:00zolk3rican't be changed because of "almost every library imports stuff like "import stuff"? use sed!
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16:51:20FromGitter<Yardanico> but
16:51:31FromGitter<Yardanico> how you would change it in other github repos?
16:51:34FromGitter<Yardanico> if you don't own them
16:52:17FromGitter<Yardanico> and sorry, but changing import statement behaviour at this point would be really stupid.
16:56:34zolk3riYardanico: You make it backward compatible for a few releases, and issue a warning about it being deprecated soon, or whatever. Not that I care about the import stuff to begin with anyway. :P
16:57:02Yardanicozolk3ri, but firstly you need to convince our BDFL that new import behaviour is good and old one is bad :)
16:57:37miranthere are more important issues to convince him ;)
16:57:40zolk3riNot me! I don't mind either way. :P
16:57:42FromGitter<Bennyelg> Hello Folks
16:57:47zolk3riHey.
16:57:50FromGitter<Bennyelg> sorry for been away so much time
16:57:53FromGitter<Bennyelg> I had issues
16:59:28Arrrr`asArray` could be implemented as a proc https://pastebin.com/qPuVQabP
17:03:59YardanicoArrrr, but it would change the type at runtime
17:04:19Yardanicoso that's slower
17:04:45YardanicoArrrr, dom96, did you see https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/6563#issuecomment-338488276 ?
17:05:18Arrrrbut can be done at compile time. Besides, it is not like you are going to hand made big arrays
17:05:20Yardanicoah no
17:05:26YardanicoArrrr, it is
17:05:29Yardanicocheck unicode module
17:06:35Yardanicodom96 made this suggestions because of https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/6301/files/eb1b13baad7f5496be46c8ee0e003081041b5e9e#diff-15d82a47d4b87ec3cce5f6262d3828ceR339
17:07:25ArrrrStill is too small. Macros are not for free.
17:07:40Yardanicowhy?
17:08:33ArrrrNothing is magical. How would the macro work?
17:09:14ArrrrBoth are done at compile time, but macro has to deal with more things that a simple conversion
17:09:27Yardanicoyour asArray is done at runtime
17:09:39Arrrrrun that code
17:09:42Yardanicoah
17:09:44Yardanicoyou have const
17:09:49Yardanicomaybe change asArray to compiletime proc?
17:10:22Yardanicoah no
17:10:24Yardanicoit doesn't work this way
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17:43:17FromGitter<x86128> How to list at compile time all set and defined conditions like "linux", "ioselSupportedPlatform", "release" and so that "when" clause can determine?
17:53:27Yardanicowhen can actually be used for ANY condition that can be computed at compile-time
17:54:54FromGitter<x86128> I want to list all currently set conditions
17:55:05Yardanicoyou can't
17:56:42Yardanicobecause it's not some magical thing
17:56:53Yardanicoand you can create your own when's
17:57:59Yardanicox86128: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/c39e2029762387d05f7b3d81490c6129703c1b60/lib/system/platforms.nim#L14
17:58:21Yardanicoyou can find all possible OS definitions here
17:58:26Yardanicoand cpu definitions too
17:59:21dom96This would be nice
18:00:10dom96ideally we should have a 'currentOS' const with a set of possible values
18:00:35Yardanicodom96, ehm?
18:00:41Yardanicohttps://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/c39e2029762387d05f7b3d81490c6129703c1b60/lib/system/platforms.nim#L42
18:00:55dom96when currentOS == Windows: vs. when defined(windows):
18:00:56FromGitter<x86128> Need some thing similar to "env" command in linux shell, but only in compile time :)
18:01:02Yardanicodom96, you can do that
18:01:04FromGitter<data-man> Hello!
18:01:13Yardanicodom96, when targetOS == windows
18:01:39Yardanicohm
18:02:11Yardanicoit isn't included in system for some reason
18:02:22FromGitter<data-man> @x86128: The builtin 'system.locals' implemented as a compiler plugin. You can implement system.defines.
18:02:38Yardanicoyeah, make a compiler plugin then
18:02:40Yardaniconim supports them
18:02:50Yardanicohttps://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/tree/13f974336eff453fe4384ef2566f069b6fde75a1/compiler/plugins
18:05:17FromGitter<x86128> @data-man Uh, Oh, firstly I need to become a YODA Nim hacker :D
18:06:49Yardaniconah
18:06:51Yardanicoyou don't
18:07:07Yardanicobut I don't think system.defines is actually useful
18:07:10miranhmmm, the same regex pattern `nre` recognizes and `re` does not... :/
18:07:16Yardanicomaybe only as a documentation
18:07:26Yardanicomiran, because re is extended by default?
18:07:48Yardanicoand they're actually different
18:07:57Yardanicore is justa PCRE wrapper
18:08:03Yardaniconre is more nim-like
18:09:01miranwell, `nre` doesn't have an option to give me subgroups of a match, and `re` doesn't recognize the pattern
18:09:38Yardanicobecause they're different
18:09:43Yardanicoas I said
18:09:52Yardanicomaybe read the docs ? :)
18:10:25Yardanicomiran, read http://perldoc.perl.org/perlre.html for regex documentation
18:10:28miranok, they are different, but i thouht `re` should work with perfectly valid regex
18:10:39Yardanicoare you sure it's perfectly valid?
18:10:42Yardanicodid you check on regex101?
18:11:27miranyeah, it works on regex101
18:11:53Yardanicocan you post a snippet of your code which doesn't work>
18:11:54Yardanico?
18:12:11miranthis is the pattern: (\w+): capacity (-*\d+), durability (-*\d+), flavor (-*\d+), texture (-*\d+), calories (-*\d+)
18:12:26miranand here is one line of the text: Sugar: capacity 3, durability 0, flavor 0, texture -3, calories 2
18:12:30Yardanicocan you show me the code ? :)
18:12:44Yardanicoand btw, you don't even need regex here
18:12:50dom96try re("...", {reStudy})
18:13:01dom96instead of re"..."
18:13:03Yardanicostrscans is enough for a line like this
18:14:12FromGitter<data-man> https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/6082 Can someone check this PR on Windows x64?
18:14:17mirantried reStudy and got: Error: invalid character constant
18:15:31Yardanicomiran, Note: The 're' proc defaults to the extended regular expression syntax which lets you use whitespace freely to make your regexes readable. However, this means matching whitespace requires \s or something similar.
18:15:39Yardanicothis was changed in devel though
18:15:54Yardanicotry re("...", {})
18:15:59Yardanicoah
18:16:02Yardanicoit should be the same, sorry
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18:16:31miranyeah, \s did the trick
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18:16:54Yardanicothis was changed in devel as I said :) regex syntax will not be extended by default
18:17:38mirannice to hear
18:22:36FromGitter<data-man> Need a wrapper for pcre2 and new modules re2 and nre2 :)
18:24:19Yardanico*need a pure-nim regex library
18:25:45FromGitter<data-man> I like the regex library in D language
18:25:50FromGitter<gokr> The other day I got fed up with regex and used the peg module .
18:25:56FromGitter<gokr> instead
18:34:39dom96this should work though re("...", {reStudy})
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18:50:10Yardanicodom96, https://github.com/dom96/jester/issues/123
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18:50:13Yardanicoah sorry
18:50:18Yardanicodom96, https://github.com/nim-lang/nimforum/pull/110
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18:53:30Yardanicomatrix bridge dead again ? :)
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19:54:14Yardanicoyay matrix is back again
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20:46:49Yardanicoguys, discord server - https://discord.gg/ezDFDw2 :)
20:47:48Yardanicoehh, so I should make irc-discord bridge ? :P
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21:01:27PMunchHmm is there a library where something like this: http://floating-point-gui.de/errors/comparison/ is implemented?
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21:24:05Yardanicoguys, I found a Go bridge between multiple services - e.g. you can have Gitter <> IRC <> Discord
21:24:06FromGitter<ircdiscord> [irc] <Yardanico> guys, I found a Go bridge between multiple services - e.g. you can have Gitter <> IRC <> Discord
21:24:07GitDisc[gitter] <FromIRC> **<Yardanico>** guys, I found a Go bridge between multiple services - e.g. you can have Gitter <> IRC <> Discord
21:24:07FromGitter<ircdiscord> [irc] <FromGitter> <ircdiscord> [irc] <Yardanico> guys, I found a Go bridge between multiple services - e.g. you can have Gitter <> IRC <> Discord
21:24:08FromGitter<ircdiscord> [irc] <FromGitter> <ircdiscord> [irc] <FromGitter> <ircdiscord> [irc] <Yardanico> guys, I found a Go bridge between multiple services - e.g. you can have Gitter <> IRC <> Discord
21:24:08GitDisc[gitter] <FromIRC> **<GitDisc>** [gitter] <FromIRC> **<Yardanico>** guys, I found a Go bridge between multiple services - e.g. you can have Gitter <> IRC <> Discord
21:24:10*GitDisc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
21:24:14FromGitter<Yardanico> FUCK
21:24:30Yardanicowell I mean can we maybe run a new one?
21:24:37Yardanicobecause it supports discord also
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21:26:10GitDisc[discord] <Yardanico> ok I've started discord-irc bridge
21:26:17zolk3rilmao
21:26:27YardanicoI can add gitter too guys
21:26:37Yardanicobut we'll need to disable FromGitter
21:26:47YardanicoI'm using https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge
21:27:18Yardanicodo you know the best thing? we can also add twitch to it :P
21:27:22Yardanicobecause it supports IRC
21:29:29YardanicoSo we can easily have Gitter <> IRC <> Discord <> Twitch bridge
21:29:35Yardanicoand also slack, telegram, etc
21:30:25Yardanicowhat do you think?
21:30:37GitDisc[discord] <Yardanico> very good bridge btw
21:32:54dom96What is this blasphemy?
21:32:55dom96Go?
21:33:11Yardanicowell yes, but it just works and we can have gitter-irc-twitch-discord easily
21:33:21GitDisc[discord] <thedipperslipper> have anyone bought "Nim in Action" yet?
21:34:04Yardanicodom96, also slack, telegram, matrix, xmpp, and some others
21:34:17FromGitter<mratsim> > __>
21:34:40FromGitter<mratsim> https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQrdqx3NDUzb8AH1XtBwW5hfvUW_vkuLfYgsNrUqstVM23vzB5q
21:34:53Yardanicowell this would really be useful
21:35:06Yardanicoso anyone can use his favourite chat messenger
21:35:25GitDisc[discord] <thedipperslipper> are messages here get posted in the irc as well?
21:35:28GitDisc[discord] <Yardanico> yes
21:35:35GitDisc[discord] <thedipperslipper> oh, hi everyone 
21:35:58FromGitter<mratsim> (https://files.gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim/QFpA/images.jpg)
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21:36:39Yardanicowell it would be really useful to anyone :)
21:37:10zolk3riport it to nim
21:37:13Yardanicohah
21:37:31zolk3ri:P
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21:38:36dom96only 533 commits
21:38:49Yardanicodom96, and 450 stars :D
21:39:05Yardanicowell I maybe *can* port it, but can we run it now before I port it to Nim?
21:40:02Yardanicobut I would need to fix nim stdlib bugs :P
21:40:25zolk3rinah, dom96 is gonna fix nim stdlib bugs and stream it
21:40:27zolk3ri:p
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21:42:17zolk3ri/2/2
21:42:19zolk3rierr
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22:13:18FromGitter<mratsim> What am I missing so that arraymancer.nim.cfg gets used?
22:13:18bkerinis there a way to declare a method virtual?
22:13:27FromGitter<mratsim> (https://files.gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim/rTTV/2017-10-23_00-12-47.png)
22:13:45bkerinjust using {.base.} and setting to nil seems to make a no-op which is not what is wanted
22:14:02FromGitter<mratsim> @bkerin what do you mean virtual? Dynamic dispatch? all methods are dynamic dispatched
22:14:25bkerinlike purse virtual =0 in sig or some crap like that in C++
22:14:45bkerini.e. not callable in base class and needs an implementation
22:15:01bkerins/purse/pure/
22:16:35FromGitter<mratsim> @bkerin I use that: https://github.com/mratsim/Arraymancer/blob/master/src/autograd/ag_data_structure.nim#L56-L65
22:17:40bkerinlooks good
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22:27:36bkerinso far what drives me nuts most about this lang
22:27:39FromGitter<Yardanico> U
22:27:54FromGitter<Yardanico> What?
22:28:14bkerinis finding things in the docs
22:28:43bkerinim gonna end up scripting something to search the entries in the big index page and it still seems some things aren'g there
22:28:50FromGitter<Yardanico> Well you don't need to find thing to this one
22:29:07FromGitter<Yardanico> E.g. you just throw an error as you would usually do
22:29:24FromGitter<Yardanico> Use devdocs to search on nim docs
22:29:30FromGitter<Yardanico> It has offline mode
22:31:06bkerinmm ill try it
22:31:31bkerinmeanwhile can someone tell me how to get type of a thing as string
22:33:04FromGitter<kdheepak> @Varriount @arnetheduck or others, have any of you tried the nlvm (https://github.com/arnetheduck/nlvm) on a Mac?
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22:59:03FromGitter<Yardanico> bkerin: take a look at typetraits module
22:59:39FromGitter<Yardanico> It wouldn't work for runtime types though
23:02:00FromGitter<mratsim> @bkerin import typetraits and thing.type.name
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23:02:17FromGitter<mratsim> it was in my “virtual” method example
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23:17:06FromGitter<khogeland> Why are methods not GC-safe?
23:17:56FromGitter<khogeland> ```method bar(s: RootObj) {.base.} = discard ⏎ proc foo() {.thread.} = ⏎ bar(RootObj())``` ⏎ ⏎ Does not compile [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=59ed27238808bed73d1625a3]
23:18:11Araqwrite .base, gcsafe
23:18:30Araqthe default for any effect in Nim is "yeah, possible"
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23:54:22GitDisc[discord] <zetashift> sweet I always prefer Discord over gitter/slack
23:54:51FromGitter<khogeland> lol, nice.
23:55:47FromGitter<khogeland> Need an IRC bridge for the Discord channel for maximum flexibility, IRC -> Discord -> IRC -> Gitter -> Slack
23:56:06FromGitter<khogeland> And maybe an IRC bridge out the other end