<< 23-02-2017 >>
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02:30:57zachcarterIf i’m going to be writing and parsing configuration data in Nim, what’s the preferred format for doing so / best supported format?
02:30:59zachcarterJSON?
02:31:26zachcarterrst?
02:44:27demi-cfg i believe
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02:51:39zachcarterthank you
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03:21:24FromGitter<Varriount> zachcarter: What kind of configuration data?
03:21:41zachcarterI’m going to write a texture packer I think for creating texture atlasas
03:21:46zachcarterI think cfg will work perfectly
03:21:59FromGitter<Varriount> JSON is nice because it's easily machine readable and writable, and cfg is nice, but nonstandard.
03:22:07zachcarteryeah
03:22:26FromGitter<Varriount> There's also NimYAML, which is (in my opinion) a shining example of a proper Nim library.
03:23:01zachcarterhmm NimYaml does sound interesting
03:23:16zachcarterpure nim yaml implementation
03:23:52zachcarterlooking at the demos now
03:29:23demi-yeah i've used that for a bunch of configs, it is pretty nice
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05:08:41zachcarterwhat’s the best way to ensure an object doesn’t get garbage collected?
05:09:08zachcarterthe gc is ref counted right so as long as I keep a reference alive it shouldn’t get gc'd?
05:15:36zachcarternevermind I was doing something stupid
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06:03:53zachcartercan someone remind me how to create a string of a specified size?
06:12:24FromGitter<nigredo-tori> @zachcarter https://nim-lang.org/docs/system.html#newString,Natural
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06:12:39zachcarterthank you
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12:25:47FromGitter<Varriount> zachcarter: If you want to ensure that an object isn't freed by the garbage collector, you can use the increment/decrement reference functions
12:34:47nivdom96: thanks for giving me that link the other day. i was pretty busy and i forgot to respond but it was useful
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13:05:31SalewskiI have a seq of items, and I want to process each item. Only if that processing is successful, that item should be removed from seq.
13:06:09SalewskiIs there a very easy solution, or have I to do it with a counter and push() and pop() operations?
13:10:40SalewskiWell, maybe push all unsuccesfully processed items to new empty list, and finally copy that new list back.
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13:11:10SalewskiBye.
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13:20:44stisaSalewski: maybe sequtils.keepif ? https://nim-lang.org/docs/sequtils.html#keepIf,seq[T],proc(T)
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13:51:01SalewskiYes, keepIf was what I need, thanks!
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14:15:13ArrrrWe need a {.public.} that defaults every field access to public. Useful for big case objects
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17:11:17surge-protectHello
17:12:19surge-protectHow do I use multi-threading in asynchttpserver ?
17:15:33dom96surge-protect: You can't right now, or at least not easily.
17:17:57surge-protecta colleague of mine ran the demo asynchttpserver and was getting 10k rq/s . I was wondering how much more I could crank out
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17:19:22dom96If you're using Linux then you can set reusePort to true and run multiple processes.
17:20:01dom96Also make sure you're compiling with -d:release
17:20:16surge-protectdom96: are there more/better examples of using the server lib? I want to try implementing a server transporting actual JSON data
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17:20:46surge-protectoh yes, I am currently compiling like this: nim c file.nim . would a different compilation improve performance?
17:20:58dom96yes: nim c -d:release file.nim
17:21:29dom96You likely want a web framework, if so check out Jester.
17:22:07FromGitter<andreaferretti> also https://github.com/andreaferretti/rosencrantz
17:22:30surge-protectdom96: is there a problem using the raw http lib?
17:23:02dom96surge-protect: you'll need to implement many things yourself like routing.
17:23:08FromGitter<andreaferretti> no problem, it is just that jester and rosencrantz should be more convenient
17:23:45surge-protectbased on the example from here: https://nim-lang.org/docs/asynchttpserver.html
17:23:49dom96Whether you should use a web framework or not depends on what you intend to do.
17:24:00surge-protectdo I use a single proc for all my URL paths?
17:25:19dom96asynchttpserver does no routing, it just calls your callback for every request.
17:26:03surge-protectwould adding routing bloat the lib or make it better?
17:30:00FromGitter<andreaferretti> routing and a few more things is what jester and rosencrantz add on top of asynchttpserver
17:30:15FromGitter<andreaferretti> really, they are not that heavyweight
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17:31:05surge-protectandreaferretti if I use your DSL, how do I implement things like interaction with databases?
17:31:07dom96yeah, and you can easily write your own if you really want.
17:31:33FromGitter<andreaferretti> the same way you would do with asynchttpserver or jester
17:31:35FromGitter<andreaferretti> :-)
17:31:43FromGitter<andreaferretti> with a library to talk to databases
17:31:52FromGitter<andreaferretti> these frameworks are pretty minimal
17:31:59FromGitter<andreaferretti> think sinatra, not rails or django
17:32:12surge-protectso the DSL will not impact speaking to a DB in that I need to use the DSL?
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17:32:23FromGitter<andreaferretti> I hope not! :-D
17:32:50FromGitter<andreaferretti> but if you run into any issues, please let me know
17:33:30surge-protecthave you tried it yourself? andreaferretti
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17:35:11FromGitter<andreaferretti> not really, no
17:35:30FromGitter<andreaferretti> but I don't see how the two things should relate at all
17:35:58surge-protectI would hope you would have used your DSL for a real-world scenario :P
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17:38:24demi-dom96: does nim-lang.org run off of one of these?
17:38:49FromGitter<andreaferretti> I think Jester
17:39:14dom96forum.nim-lang.org does
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17:41:14demi-neat!
17:42:52demi-wow this is the first time i've looked at jester and this DSL seems really good
17:43:52demi-could easily replace my use of apache and such in terms of functionality, but not sure about the other bits like multiple hosts and ssl certs
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17:45:09zachcarterhttp://imgur.com/a/yqKj1
17:46:26dom96well currently I would recommend placing it behind a reverse proxy like nginx
17:46:49demi-for security?
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17:49:09federico3that, and also you can offload serving static contents
17:50:09dom96yeah
17:55:20demi-and presumably there is no guide for doing this kind of setup
17:55:33federico3demi-: what kind exactly?
17:56:09demi-doing webserver setup using jester as the thing serving content
17:56:11dom96Yeah, docs for jester can definitely use improvement.
17:56:19dom96But it's a basic reverse proxy
17:56:28dom96if you search "reverse proxy nginx" you should find a guide
17:56:42dom96it's basically `proxy_pass localhost:port`
17:56:43federico3demi-: I can put a little nginx example at the bottom of https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/wiki/Tutorial:-Creating-a-(micro)-service
17:58:10demi-that would be helpful, i've written a tool for generating my website's content using nim (ported from python) and now seeing this -- makes me more likely to want to use something to generate jester DSL for it than having to maintain what i have in place now
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18:04:39federico3demi-: done
18:06:13demi-oooh, i see; so you would be using nginx for the hostname resolution/ssl certs/etc and would just forward the requests onto the jester port locally and then hand back the responses
18:09:53federico3that also allows running multiple domains behind the same instance and gathering metrics from Nginx
18:10:20demi-yeah
18:10:38demi-interesting, thank you for that!
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18:13:17federico3anytime :)
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18:22:19surge-protectfederico3: do you have more guides/tutorials?
18:23:21cheatfatedemi-, do not use `jester` as frontend server, its not ready for production, even for homepage
18:24:03federico3surge-protect: on what topics?
18:24:19surge-protectfederico3: web-based stuff
18:24:42federico3surge-protect: can you be more specific please? :)
18:24:55demi-cheatfate: gotcha
18:25:30surge-protectfederico3: any demos/tutorials/examples for building small/medium sized web services/applications
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18:26:52dom96cheatfate: hrm, what do you mean by "frontend server"? Do you consider jester ready for production when run behind nginx?
18:27:47surge-protectdom96: i think he might be referring to nginx being battle-tested for security-threats, whereas jester isn't
18:29:02dom96surge-protect: btw my book has a chapter on writing a web app
18:29:18dom96Although it does cost money unfortunately :)
18:30:05surge-protectI want to know "just-enough" before I buy a book I may never read (if I don't know "enough") dom96 :)
18:30:39surge-protecthas jester been rewritten to use asynchttp, etc. ? I see it is in active development
18:31:06dom96Here is the code for that chapter in case you wanna learn by example: https://github.com/dom96/nim-in-action-code/tree/master/Chapter7/Tweeter
18:31:13dom96I still need to document the code more though
18:31:23dom96Yes, Jester uses asynchttpserver.
18:36:03cheatfatein your case dom96, nginx - fronted server, jester - backend server
18:36:17cheatfatefrontend
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18:42:20Calinouwhen deploying to production, you probably should always use nginx as a reverse-proxy anyway, it's easier to offer HTTPS or HTTP/2 this way, and many other things
18:42:31Calinoube it Python, Node.js, Nim, anything
18:42:39CalinouPHP is an exception, because it can be run directly :)
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18:44:32cheatfatePHP is absolutely same, because to run it effectively you need fcgi executor
18:45:27Calinouyes, in nginx you need php-fpm
18:45:33Calinoubut no reverse proxy is needed
18:47:44cheatfateCalinou, its the same shit, just using unix sockets by default
18:47:59cheatfateand i think nginx can handle unix sockets for other backends too
18:49:25cheatfateupstream upstream_name {
18:49:26cheatfate server unix:/path/to/socket fail_timeout=0;
18:49:26cheatfate}
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19:26:23niva bit late to the party, but "caddy" is pretty easy to use and has a well-working transparent letsencrypt ssl thing
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19:46:31Calinouyep, I've been watching it
19:46:40Calinouit's not ideal for PHP applications (hardly any documentation, unlike nginx) though
19:46:45Calinouand since I primarily do PHP work...
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20:41:31surge-protectdom96: with the rewrite of jester, does that mean it has better performance than 12 months ago?
20:41:50dom9612 months ago?
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20:42:42surge-protectbefore the rewrite, which I am not sure of exactly when
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20:44:53dom96sure
20:44:59dom96But I don't know by how much
20:46:01surge-protectbased on my current tests using wrk, if jester is just a thin wrapper over asynchttp, it should be quite good at handling things
20:46:23dom96there is still lots of room for optimisation in jester
20:46:55dom96but why are you so interested in the performance?
20:48:53surge-protectI consider my time-investment in learning/using Nim to be able to handle loads on smaller servers better than ruby/python/php could
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20:52:22dom96It can definitely handle loads better than those three
20:52:55dom96And the speed will continue to improve.
20:56:05krux02has anyone here experience with using a debugger in Nim?
20:56:43krux02I mean showing content of variables and stepping through code
20:58:08krux02and inspect variable under cursor
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21:02:13cheatfatekrux02, its possible, but with current nim version is not comfortable at all
21:02:51cheatfateas Araq said to me earlier, use `echo` and `getStackTrace()`
21:02:52FromGitter<Varriount> I've heard that the Nim VS plugin does debugging rather well
21:03:43krux02so with the nim programming language I am stuck at printf debugging
21:03:59krux02or echo debugging
21:04:32AraqI can use gdb with Nim it's just that traditional debuggers don't work for me
21:05:14cheatfateVarriount: nim vs plugin don't do anything with debugging...
21:05:32cheatfateit has debug support in TODO
21:05:44cheatfatei think you are talking about vs code gdb plugin
21:06:42cheatfateso with latest changes made to name mangling its comfort ability is equal to plaing gdb debugging
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21:09:34cheatfateAraq, you are only one person who can use traditional debugger with nim, and it not working for you too :) I think something must be made in this direction...
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21:10:00Araqcheatfate: my coworkers can use Nim with a debugger too
21:11:00krux02Araq: nobody in the community has any idea how to debug Nim code
21:11:05cheatfateAraq, ask them is it so comfortable as debugging plain C code?
21:11:37Araq--debugger:native
21:11:42Araqgdb myexe
21:11:48Araqbr foo.nim:34
21:11:50Araqrun
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21:11:53Araqbt
21:11:57krux02yes, so far so good
21:12:14krux02how do you visualize enums, strings and sequences?
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21:13:55cheatfateThis is long story, what happens if code generated by macro? or generic template?
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21:15:03krux02cheatfate: as long as you don't generate you ast with newTree, you can still see where in the template you are
21:15:11krux02a bit like c++ template debugging
21:16:42krux02There I really like the JAI approach, where macros always generate strings that then get's compiled. All generated strings are actually stored in a file that is then used as locations for the debugger
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21:16:57krux02JAI is another programming language
21:17:43cheatfatekrux02, yeah bug this generated string is not stored inside of nim's source code, so current approach with marking c code with #line directive could not find any positions inside of nim source code...
21:18:04cheatfatebug* = but
21:18:34krux02I am not sure what you want to say
21:19:08cheatfatekrux02, ok
21:19:29krux02What I just said was about another programming language, wher the generated code from macros is stored in a real file.
21:19:43cheatfatekrux02, nim -> c -> executable with (DWARF/MSCOFF/PDB debugging information)
21:20:10cheatfateDWARF/MSCOFF/PDB know nothing about Nim
21:20:15cheatfatebut they know C
21:20:44cheatfatebefore name mangling happens it was possible to just debug C code
21:20:53cheatfateit was hard but still possible
21:21:01krux02codewithmacros.jai -> codewithmacros.jai, expandedmacros.jai -> codewithmacros.c, expandedmacros.c -> binary
21:21:34cheatfateyeah but nim don't generate `expandedmacros.nim` :) which will be very good to have inside of `nimcache` directory
21:22:08Araqprint *x
21:22:08Araq(NimStringDesc) $10 = {
21:22:08Araq Sup = (len = 6, reserved = 7)
21:22:10Araq data = {}
21:22:12Araq}
21:22:31Araqprint (char*)x->data
21:22:31Araq(char *) $11 = 0x000000010050f068 "foobar"
21:23:37Araqthe rest of the discussion is equally mysterious. C doesn't have macros? give me a break
21:23:39krux02print x->data
21:25:56krux02it would be interesing to know what would happen, if every macro in nim would print it's result.repr into an expandedmacros.nim file, that is then used for debug locations
21:27:37krux02Araq: the problem is, that terminal debugging is a much higher obstacle to take than visual debugging in e.g. visual-studio-code
21:28:04krux02and in visual studio code, everything you just don't see the content of strings when you use gdb
21:28:31krux02that's all solvable with gdb scripts that tell gdb how to understand nim cdoe
21:28:51krux02the seqences can be opened like a tree
21:29:46krux02and each element can be inspected individually
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21:37:00zachcarterhrm… if I remove this echo from my code things break - https://gist.github.com/zacharycarter/3d513223fec92b2bb6cecc9b08e3d46a#file-help-nim-L48
21:37:04zachcarterI’m guessing something is getting GC'd
21:37:08zachcarternot sure why though
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21:45:25zachcarterokay I think I get why
21:47:47krux02zachcarter: good, because I looked at it, and I have no idea
21:47:54zachcarter:D
21:47:57zachcarterthank you for looking
21:48:05zachcarterhad to do with allocating on the heap vs stack
21:48:08krux02yea that's basically all I did
21:48:22krux02all I saw was unrelated to that bug
21:48:32zachcarteryeah
21:48:45krux02when your code is full of discard, then you are probably better of setting the result as discardable
21:49:13zachcarterah yeah - those discards are going to go away
21:49:20zachcarterI’m just avoiding writing a bunch of checks atm
21:49:24krux02I thought so too
21:49:27krux02it's temporary code
21:49:33krux02all WIP
21:49:53zachcarteryup
21:50:11zachcarterI’m writing a texture packer to learn Nuklear / more of bgfx
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21:52:09krux02what do you main with a texture packer?
21:52:25krux02you mean make a big texture atlas, or texture compression?
21:52:49zachcarterformer
21:53:12zachcarterso rect bin packing
21:53:42krux02yes that's a good idea I guess
21:54:08krux02I think it's good as soon as you start to have a lot of assets
21:54:29krux02then you could also start to have sparse textures, and only stream in the part of the texture, that is important
21:55:10zachcarteryup
22:01:30krux02Just looked it up, ARB_spares_texture, not on a mac
22:01:36krux02sorry
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22:03:30CalinouI found a project to do
22:03:42Calinou1) buy domain "isthisopenglextensiononmacos.com"
22:03:53Calinou2) set up a Jester project, replying "<h1>No</h1>" to every route
22:03:59Calinou:)
22:05:23krux02they have some extensions
22:05:31krux02for example ATI_texture_mirror_once
22:06:16krux02or ARB_shading_language_include
22:07:19demi-https://developer.apple.com/opengl/capabilities/ and https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202823 are what you want
22:11:04krux02http://www.g-truc.net/doc/OpenGL%204%20Hardware%20Matrix.pdf
22:12:24krux02demi: interesting is that the newest version of OpenGL for Apple is 4.1
22:12:34krux02that is 7 years ago since that was released
22:13:15zachcarterI heard Apple is not keeping up with new OpenGL stuffs - they’re focusing on Metal and their Metal / Vulkan integration
22:13:20krux02so better said apple is 7 years behind
22:13:39zachcarterthey basically gave Khronos a big FU
22:14:39krux02they can do that, if they want to, but for me it means I don't support apple
22:15:15krux02but yea we already had that
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23:04:57FromGitter<Varriount> Do the executives at apple really believe that people are going to go to the trouble of using Metal on anything but iOS?
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23:26:17zachcarterI don’t know
23:26:20zachcarterthey’re definitely smoking something
23:26:36zachcarterthe think people are going to use their Metal bridge to Vulkan
23:30:26FromGitter<Varriount> Smells like Objective C again.
23:30:50FromGitter<Varriount> zachcarter: How is your project going?
23:31:23zachcartermmm alright I guess - I’m working on building some tooling for the engine. I decided I’m going to focus on 2D for now so I’m working on a texture packer to learn Nuklear / BGFX
23:31:36zachcarterright now I’m having trouble getting BGFX and Nuklear to play nice with texture binding
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23:38:43FromGitter<Varriount> BGFX doesn't handle texture binding?
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23:59:28jabbhey, is there a way i can do the similar of "var int" in proc, but not in a proc
23:59:43jabbexample: http://ideone.com/2ONGKZ