| 00:00:19 | carkh | $(winlean.getCommandLineW()) is the actual call i'm making |
| 00:01:49 | carkh | again, it's working fine here (later conversions works), just want to make sure it is correct |
| 00:15:35 | FromGitter | <awr1> if it's working it's probably correct |
| 00:15:57 | FromGitter | <awr1> win32 utf16 weirdness is...weird |
| 00:17:53 | carkh | haha we'll go with that then =) |
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| 00:52:23 | skrylar[m] | and now its on the internet place https://github.com/Skrylar/offline-nim-docs |
| 00:52:43 | skrylar[m] | thought about a docset altho zeal search is kinda slow/clunk with a lot of docsets active |
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| 03:14:52 | FromGitter | <Varriount> Anyone here know how bash/ash/sh (or shells in general) define functions? |
| 03:15:06 | FromGitter | <Varriount> That is, how they internally store function data. |
| 03:28:43 | shashlick | Nice @skrylar - I've been working on automating docset generation based on niv/nim-docset |
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| 04:48:38 | FromGitter | <Obround> Hi I'm new to Nim, I have this code(very messy): ⏎ ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` ⏎ ⏎ What does this error mean? How do I fix my code? [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5d3691a68fe53b671dbeb08f] |
| 04:55:34 | Araq | was easiest to do this way, clybber |
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| 05:15:04 | k0mpjut0r | skrylar also see http://devdocs.io which supports offline documentation and Nim |
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| 05:26:13 | FromGitter | <arnetheduck> defaulting to --threads:on something scheduled for 1.0 ? |
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| 05:47:51 | Tanger | 0bround: Hey mate. If you declare types that have cyclical dependencies, you need to declare them in the same type block |
| 05:48:22 | Tanger | 0bround: So if you consolidate all of your types into a single block at the very top, that should get rid of that error |
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| 06:06:30 | leorize | Tanger: it's @Obround with an O :P |
| 06:14:42 | Tanger | lol |
| 06:14:58 | Tanger | Obround: See above :P |
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| 06:28:45 | Zevv | @varriount I can't do it, I can not find a way for nim to take my type and propagate it through the parser. macros don't do generics, and i dont know how to get a type or typedesc back out from a NimNode |
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| 06:35:56 | Zevv | Ha. Guido van Rossum is considering doing a PEG based rework of the python parser: https://medium.com/@gvanrossum_83706/peg-parsers-7ed72462f97ca |
| 06:36:10 | FromGitter | <awr1> broken link |
| 06:37:18 | Zevv | oh https://medium.com/@gvanrossum_83706/peg-parsers-7ed72462f97c |
| 06:37:37 | Zevv | he old paste-and-then-hit-a-random-key |
| 06:38:12 | Zevv | commuting -> making a mess, sorry |
| 06:38:21 | FromGitter | <awr1> thanks |
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| 07:35:39 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> can I convert a sequence into an array? |
| 07:35:43 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> will a cast do? |
| 07:36:14 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> I guess it will - nm |
| 07:37:08 | Zevv | ha have fun |
| 07:38:44 | Zevv | first, you can't cast to just-an-array, you need an explicit length. and then the seq itself is something separate from the data it holds, so you'll be casting the wrong thing |
| 07:40:10 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> well I already had an array of 24 elements defined as a property on my object |
| 07:40:26 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> and I grabbed a slice from a sequence of the same size as that |
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| 07:40:53 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> so really I'm casting the slice of data from the sequence to the array |
| 07:41:03 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> I'm not sure if that makes any difference - but nimsuggest doesn't seem to complain |
| 07:41:34 | Zevv | you slice by openarray? |
| 07:41:51 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> no - just like a subrange [0..23] |
| 07:41:58 | Zevv | that's just making a copy, right? |
| 07:42:15 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> I don't know - I guess I'll find out shortly |
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| 07:42:21 | Zevv | :) |
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| 08:01:11 | FromGitter | <mratsim> @awr1 happy to see you starting on CPU feature detection, I've left a comment on the PR |
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| 08:09:34 | PMunch | With the split between release and danger, are assertions now run in release code? |
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| 08:10:18 | FromGitter | <mratsim> just try it in the playground ;) |
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| 08:10:37 | FromGitter | <mratsim> I don't expect them to, assertiosn are not bounds check |
| 08:10:46 | FromGitter | <mratsim> it's debug information for me |
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| 08:24:30 | FromGitter | <arnetheduck> both indicate violated preconditions |
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| 08:25:28 | FromGitter | <arnetheduck> and both cause UB when violated, generally |
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| 08:30:39 | FromGitter | <mratsim> yes but asserts are usually there to ensure that the libraries doesn't have bugs, while boundsCheck are more related to input validation (from users or network or something you don't control) |
| 08:30:53 | FromGitter | <mratsim> ugh, grammar |
| 08:38:41 | Zevv | grammar! |
| 08:39:49 | Araq | all checks are enabled, including assertions |
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| 09:09:15 | narimiran | https://www.infoq.com/articles/got-nim/ |
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| 09:27:17 | FromGitter | <mratsim> why do they always all caps Nim :/ |
| 09:28:34 | Zevv | You should check out LUA |
| 09:32:10 | FromGitter | <mratsim> The author considers Swift as a scripting language :D "Pape has extensive experience with scripting languages, including Python, Swift, and JavaScript." |
| 09:32:58 | clyybber | He also considers nim as a scripting language |
| 09:33:16 | FromGitter | <mratsim> well the article is fair, upside, downside, I don't agree with the audience of Nim, he is biaised by his scripting background |
| 09:33:36 | FromGitter | <mratsim> he does cover the "2-language problem" though |
| 09:41:39 | clyybber | Araq: When we have a call like in nimIntToStr, where we introduce a temporary for moving the result of rawNewStr, the original string returned by rawNewStr never gets destroyed, thus leaking |
| 09:42:33 | clyybber | Snippet of C code of nimIntToStr: http://ix.io/1PeH |
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| 09:45:23 | FromDiscord_ | <demotomohiro> Result of this code might looks strange, but actually working correctly. |
| 09:45:23 | FromDiscord_ | <demotomohiro> https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=1PeL |
| 09:53:58 | FromGitter | <arnetheduck> "python done right" yuck... |
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| 10:03:56 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> hmm - this is slightly disconcerting: `Future directions: Using GC'ed memory in packed pragma will result in a static error. ` |
| 10:04:06 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> like - how far in the future? |
| 10:05:21 | stefanos82 | clyybber: I really wonder what those unnecessary curly brackets are doing right after addInt_mftMOxbyu0h4yByfs3sqjA |
| 10:12:17 | clyybber | nothing :p they are an artifact of *something* |
| 10:14:24 | stefanos82 | something tells me it was supposed to have some kind of information in them lol |
| 10:16:09 | clyybber | It's not the cause of my problem ;D |
| 10:17:38 | clyybber | Araq: One solution I can think of is making a rawNewStringV2 that returns a sink/var and patching injectdestructors to not gen temporaries for those. |
| 10:18:22 | clyybber | stefanos82: I think they are an artifact of some try: except: thing in compiler procs, not sure tho |
| 10:19:37 | stefanos82 | maybe Araq can enlighten us |
| 10:20:02 | narimiran | demotomohiro: what you wanted to do is probably `join[T: not char]` |
| 10:23:04 | FromGitter | <mratsim> string / openarray char matching is really annoying... |
| 10:37:12 | krux02 | stefanos82, nope Araq is on vacation |
| 10:37:27 | stefanos82 | krux02: finally! |
| 10:37:42 | krux02 | I am still here |
| 10:37:59 | krux02 | so you can ask me |
| 10:39:12 | krux02 | but I am sorry, I can't really talk about the new sink feature of the compiler as I am not working on it. |
| 10:43:08 | clyybber | I am the one working on it, so I should know :P |
| 10:43:39 | clyybber | but I don't, and a few parantheses more don't matter |
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| 10:44:33 | stefanos82 | I find it quite fascinating that other languages as well emit C code. I wonder how they implement their security mechanisms to reduce or avoid memory leaks and such kind of issues |
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| 10:55:55 | Zevv | and of course "too many parentheses never hurt anyone" is a famous saying among lispers |
| 11:00:11 | krux02 | Zevv lisp really isn't that bad |
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| 11:01:07 | krux02 | xml is much worse with its end tags |
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| 11:03:41 | clyybber | I agree |
| 11:03:45 | Zevv | Yeah but it never goes >>>>> :) |
| 11:04:24 | Zevv | as a dislectic I have a hard enough time distinguishing between p's and q's, let alone counting brackets. Luckily I have an computer to count for me |
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| 11:06:23 | krux02 | what bothers me more in lisp are its seemingly arbitrary indentation rules. |
| 11:06:58 | krux02 | at least in emacs the job is automated for me. But anybody who is not using emacs is basically not able to edit the files without getting the indentation wrong. |
| 11:09:01 | clyybber | Zevv: It's not like I like ((())), I just hate <> </> |
| 11:10:16 | lqdev[m] | imagine writing C code in XML |
| 11:15:55 | skrylar[m] | shashlick: there is a script out there that does it from generic html files but.. docsets are just zips with sqlite databases iirc. zims are a little more complicated since they're meant to store say 180gb of collated ad compressed stackoverflow answers, but then st uff like kiwik is using xapian for heavy sifting through all that. but anyway. easy version is take beautifulsoup, read the html file from nim doc and then stuff |
| 11:15:56 | skrylar[m] | the link anchor in to sqlite |
| 11:16:35 | clyybber | lqdev[m]: Please stop, I've already seen this: https://github.com/KhronosGroup/Vulkan-Docs/blob/master/xml/vk.xml haha |
| 11:18:12 | lqdev[m] | fuck |
| 11:18:14 | lqdev[m] | what a behemoth |
| 11:18:47 | Zevv | well that's not ment for human consumption anyway, is it |
| 11:18:50 | FromGitter | <gogolxdong> Is there anything breaking changes in new vulkan APIs? |
| 11:18:50 | lqdev[m] | well what'd you expect out of XML anyway |
| 11:19:24 | lqdev[m] | still XML isn't *that* machine friendly |
| 11:20:18 | lqdev[m] | JSON is way better in that regard since it easily maps onto your usual data structures |
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| 11:21:51 | lqdev[m] | and it's much more human-friendly too |
| 11:23:57 | clyybber | gogolxdong: No, and afaik vulkan doenst do breaking changes |
| 11:24:21 | clyybber | They deprecated some stuff in the early phases, but most updates now are just adding various extensions |
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| 11:36:33 | FromGitter | <gogolxdong> Have you achieved your goal of using vulkan to computing map ,IIRC? |
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| 11:40:30 | clyybber | It's not finished yet and I'm currently busy with implementing a new spec for the new runtime of nim |
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| 12:06:55 | disruptek | for lisp, there's parinfer. https://shaunlebron.github.io/parinfer/ |
| 12:07:27 | disruptek | parens are a solved "problem", and once you spend any time with it, it's a non-problem. |
| 12:08:57 | clyybber | Araq: I solved it differently now, I just don't introduce temporaries for calls that return a string. |
| 12:15:33 | clyybber | Another option would be to allow returning var (making it work on the C backend with hidden parameters) and then making rawNewString return var. |
| 12:18:38 | clyybber | But allowing var as a return type would be a language spec change, so this will do for now. |
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| 12:21:24 | clyybber | bbl |
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| 12:25:51 | FromGitter | <alehander42> oh not using await |
| 12:26:01 | FromGitter | <alehander42> makes for cool bugs in javascripot backend |
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| 12:38:39 | disruptek | it's simply incorrect to call nim a scripting language. 🙄 |
| 12:49:29 | sealmove | guys check it out: https://github.com/sealmove/xhronicle |
| 12:50:35 | krux02 | disruptek: I still prefer to write all my parens manually and then infer the indentation automatically. |
| 12:50:42 | FromGitter | <alehander42> i havent heard of xonsh |
| 12:52:47 | sealmove | aleh you should check it out then, it's amazing |
| 12:52:59 | sealmove | next level shell scripting |
| 12:55:16 | disruptek | krux02: what kinda lisp do you lisp? |
| 12:55:23 | krux02 | emacs lisp |
| 12:55:36 | krux02 | I kind of like it. |
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| 12:56:13 | FromGitter | <alehander42> https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/11722 |
| 12:56:20 | krux02 | But my full time job is Nim, not customizing emacs. |
| 12:56:22 | FromGitter | <alehander42> kinda glad i dont contribute to the compiler |
| 12:56:24 | FromGitter | <alehander42> honestly |
| 12:56:36 | krux02 | why? |
| 12:58:26 | FromGitter | <alehander42> it might be just my misunderstanding through several layers of language translation, but it just sounds so passive-aggressive :D |
| 12:58:46 | FromGitter | <alehander42> but it might be really language-specific phrasing which is different in german |
| 12:59:26 | krux02 | I am not so sure about the "passive" part. But I am personally done with contributions from this specific persion. |
| 12:59:49 | FromGitter | <alehander42> well, honestly it seems like you have a grudge |
| 13:00:17 | krux02 | on what? |
| 13:00:28 | FromGitter | <alehander42> differences are differences, but "lie" "had enough" "this person" |
| 13:00:32 | FromGitter | <alehander42> i feel like in high school again |
| 13:00:46 | FromGitter | <alehander42> anyway, probably i shouldn't comment more, as this is an internal team issue |
| 13:00:50 | FromGitter | <alehander42> you're in your right |
| 13:01:10 | krux02 | I am sorry, that discussions here are all public. These things should not be in public. |
| 13:01:37 | FromGitter | <alehander42> i don't agree |
| 13:02:02 | disruptek | there seem to be some technical problems with the pr, which are orthogonal to personal differences and/or presentation. |
| 13:02:42 | FromGitter | <alehander42> absolutely, but i just feel that they can be addressed in a different way, not like "i dont want stuff from that person anymore" |
| 13:03:09 | krux02 | yea, they can be addressed in a different way. |
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| 13:04:11 | FromGitter | <alehander42> by which i don't mean "ban somebody and pretend nothing happened" |
| 13:04:23 | FromGitter | <alehander42> as this left a bad impression to me as well |
| 13:04:37 | disruptek | so we have a bunch of bugs that someone has to manually test against a new pull. why not codify those into a set of tests that are not breaking should they fail? then when things get fixed, we'll know and can close issues, etc. evaluating new patches to fix those tests will become trivial, and even composing patches will be easier. |
| 13:04:38 | FromGitter | <alehander42> but basically that's it: wanted to present my user viewpoint on it |
| 13:04:45 | krux02 | If you care for my personal opinion. |
| 13:04:59 | krux02 | I didn't like the "silence" part of the ban at all. |
| 13:05:13 | krux02 | he was banned for quite some time. |
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| 13:07:09 | krux02 | alehander42: please don.t waste your time on that guy. I read enough PRs and issues from him, literally hundreads. He is very talented. |
| 13:07:12 | FromGitter | <alehander42> yes, which teached a valuable lesson: why spending time on contributions on nim, if people can just ban you/make them not visible |
| 13:07:35 | disruptek | this could even be automated with an issue label. |
| 13:07:47 | krux02 | what issue label. |
| 13:08:08 | disruptek | the take-the-code-and-turn-it-into-a-test label. |
| 13:09:20 | disruptek | maybe i will build this for myself; it seems pretty great. |
| 13:10:55 | krux02 | alehander42: You can be banned from everywhere when you have proven yourself as a toxic person. |
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| 13:11:57 | FromGitter | <alehander42> nothing in this PR from him was toxic |
| 13:12:10 | FromGitter | <alehander42> please, let's not go deep into that discussion |
| 13:12:25 | krux02 | My goal is to transform Nim into a great language. If you help me there. We are friends. Wen can also be friends if you don't help me. But when you constantly steal my time without improving anything, then it is a different story. |
| 13:12:55 | FromGitter | <alehander42> my problem is, that you use "steal"/"lie" so liberally: i seriously doubt he or other PR authors had malice at all |
| 13:13:03 | FromGitter | <alehander42> if that's so, you're very wrong |
| 13:13:40 | FromGitter | <mratsim> I agree with Alexander, your tone is too personal @krux02 on this PR, just highlighting the technical issues should be enough and will keep the conversation civil |
| 13:13:42 | FromGitter | <alehander42> your technical criticism might be spot on: a PR might be very bad indeed |
| 13:13:48 | krux02 | alehander42, his claims are what is toxic. His PR was just flawed. But a flawed PR with claims to fix everything is toxic. |
| 13:13:55 | disruptek | it may not have been malicious, but it's draining to have to review/test a complex pr like that only to find that the text doesn't match the code. |
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| 13:14:43 | disruptek | if he's as talented as you say, then why did that happen? |
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| 13:15:12 | FromGitter | <alehander42> being pedantic is a very orthogonal trait |
| 13:15:39 | FromGitter | <alehander42> it might be a solid idea/prototype which wasn't tested/analyzed correctly |
| 13:16:00 | FromGitter | <alehander42> in all cases, this sounds way more probable to me than "oh i will just submit a wrong big PR just to lose krux's time" |
| 13:16:01 | FromGitter | <alehander42> come on |
| 13:16:17 | disruptek | compilers tend to be pretty pedantic, in my experience. |
| 13:16:39 | krux02 | disruptek: I don't know why that happens. I just know that this is not a problem that happens once. It is structural though all his PR's. And there are a lot of them that don't match the claims. And some point I am just tired to deal with it. |
| 13:16:48 | FromGitter | <alehander42> and his last comment is that he hasn't addressed many other comments: its obviously still WIP |
| 13:17:29 | disruptek | all the more reason to have automated infrastructure to actually know what a pr addresses and whether it fixes anything, in addition to knowing what it breaks. |
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| 13:17:47 | krux02 | I don't want a lenghty review project just to find out that instead of fixing the real problem, the problem was just made invisible by code obfuscation. I don't want that anymore. We have so many great contributors in Nim and they are all overshadowed by a single person. |
| 13:17:51 | FromGitter | <alehander42> so it's very simple: list the wrong claims and ask about that, maybe focus on the fact that one should really try to give working tests on X, Y (disruptek's ideas seem relevant) and offer more technical criticism |
| 13:17:57 | FromGitter | <alehander42> no place for personal stuff |
| 13:20:02 | disruptek | i'm sure the intention wasn't to lay a land mine, but that doesn't make the minelayer any less responsible for the explosion. |
| 13:20:02 | krux02 | disruptek, for that PR automation would not help at all, because it suggests an alternative to ``quote do`` wich has a lot of issues. But when I tried his alternative I had to manually translate all the examples from the issues he mentioned, just to find out that all the problems of the old ``quote do`` still exist in the new ``genAst``. They manifest just in another form. |
| 13:20:28 | disruptek | krux02: yeah, that makes sense. |
| 13:20:50 | FromGitter | <alehander42> well, in the moment you saw it requires a lot of further manual work, you could already comment "please, translate those examples so its easy to review" |
| 13:21:01 | disruptek | but, there's still a class of bugs that are on the order of "this should work according to the spec but, currently, it does not". |
| 13:21:13 | FromGitter | <alehander42> whatever the technical problem is, the tone/suggestion is not good |
| 13:21:23 | krux02 | alehander42: he has test cases |
| 13:21:28 | krux02 | he did translate them. |
| 13:21:43 | FromGitter | <alehander42> but why did you have to manually translate them |
| 13:21:45 | FromGitter | <alehander42> then |
| 13:22:15 | krux02 | But he traslated them not literally, but in a slightly skewed way that make the PR look like it fixed the problems. But in this slightly changed form, the genAst is as good as the old ``quote do``. |
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| 13:23:23 | krux02 | To me that just looks like cheat/illusion/fraud |
| 13:23:46 | krux02 | not sure which word to pick there |
| 13:24:17 | FromGitter | <alehander42> or maybe people creating dsl-s know their edge cases and know what different idioms to use with them |
| 13:24:21 | FromGitter | <alehander42> not saying this is good |
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| 13:24:37 | FromGitter | <alehander42> but cheat/illusions is also totally not it for me |
| 13:25:21 | krux02 | Well, then why did he list bold claims to fix _all_ issues for quote do? |
| 13:25:28 | krux02 | Including those that were already fixed? |
| 13:25:35 | FromGitter | <alehander42> anyway, i can't understand why we are still having this discussion: you could express those annoyances with normal civil tone and let us see an explanation |
| 13:25:48 | krux02 | To make the PR look more important than it actually is? |
| 13:27:18 | krux02 | Another PR from him claimed that he made hashes 1000 times faster. But no prove for it at all. Just the big empty headline to make the PR look important. |
| 13:27:26 | FromGitter | <alehander42> well my understanding is that it offers ways to do stuff that quote do couldn't really do |
| 13:27:37 | krux02 | nope |
| 13:27:38 | krux02 | it doesn't |
| 13:27:43 | FromGitter | <mratsim> The hash has an regression issues linked to it |
| 13:27:53 | FromGitter | <mratsim> A regression issue* |
| 13:27:56 | krux02 | I know that hash has a regression. |
| 13:28:18 | FromGitter | <alehander42> but whatever the issue is, what will resolve it is: listing those techincal problems in a normal way and see if a response arises |
| 13:28:46 | FromGitter | <alehander42> all this personal drama: could be avoided |
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| 13:30:38 | krux02 | Well no, it can't. Reading issues and PR from this person does offend me personally. |
| 13:31:42 | FromGitter | <alehander42> let's not go into the the modern "X offends me" territory : ) |
| 13:31:49 | FromGitter | <alehander42> that's not an argument |
| 13:32:56 | FromGitter | <mratsim> Also his issues are documented with a repro |
| 13:33:14 | FromGitter | <mratsim> And usually quite thorough |
| 13:33:55 | krux02 | repro? |
| 13:34:10 | FromGitter | <mratsim> Reproduction code |
| 13:35:09 | krux02 | his issues usually start with 10 links to other issues, so he can get attention on his issues. |
| 13:36:02 | FromGitter | <alehander42> all those accusations have other reasonable explanations |
| 13:36:06 | FromGitter | <alehander42> so please stop this stuff |
| 13:36:09 | FromGitter | <mratsim> It's also so you don't do twice the same investigation, I do that as well though I like to create a Meta bug |
| 13:36:18 | krux02 | I made an issue template on github specifically for him, so that he doesn't do this annoying pattern anymore. |
| 13:36:59 | krux02 | Id didn't work. |
| 13:37:11 | krux02 | But at least new issues now have a consistent format. |
| 13:37:27 | FromGitter | <mratsim> Don't shoot the messenger, those issues actually exist. PR is different |
| 13:37:31 | FromGitter | <alehander42> the issue format is a great idea btw |
| 13:37:40 | FromGitter | <alehander42> but i agree with @mratsim some issues are epic-s |
| 13:37:50 | FromGitter | <alehander42> or related to many others indeed |
| 13:39:09 | krux02 | these issues exist, that is true. But they are also often not related. |
| 13:39:42 | krux02 | On top of that we had often issues reported from him that were already reported, sometimes already reported by himself. |
| 13:40:45 | krux02 | We are a small team of developers. We can't fix all problems of Nim. We really struggle to find the important issues. And then we have a guy creating 10 issues a day. |
| 13:41:33 | krux02 | And when I close a single one of them without doing proper investigations that it really is fixed we get discussions and lamenting in the IRC chat. |
| 13:42:10 | FromGitter | <alehander42> 19 issues created for the last ~month |
| 13:42:57 | krux02 | yea |
| 13:43:10 | FromGitter | <alehander42> "10 issues a day" |
| 13:43:22 | krux02 | he was blocked for months now |
| 13:43:26 | FromGitter | <alehander42> it's obvious after the ban, the pattern is different |
| 13:43:32 | FromGitter | <alehander42> and it's very dishonest |
| 13:43:39 | FromGitter | <alehander42> to bring those old stats |
| 13:44:59 | krux02 | he opened alone 485 issues |
| 13:45:15 | FromGitter | <alehander42> but the whole point of the ban is that he should stop doing this stuff |
| 13:45:27 | FromGitter | <alehander42> so you should judge him on after-the-ban stats |
| 13:45:30 | FromGitter | <alehander42> seriously krux02 |
| 13:45:37 | FromGitter | <alehander42> i am dissapointed from this discussion |
| 13:45:42 | FromGitter | <alehander42> going back to work |
| 13:45:45 | Cadey | how do i have multiple binaries in a nimble project? |
| 13:46:04 | Cadey | it complains when i have another top level file in src/ |
| 13:46:33 | krux02 | http://ix.io/1PfU |
| 13:46:48 | krux02 | Cadey, ^ |
| 13:47:08 | disruptek | you can't switch from old nim to new nim because using an else branch will give |
| 13:47:10 | Cadey | ah so i'd put the other binary in src/tradukilopkg? |
| 13:47:13 | disruptek | you "all cases are covered" and the other will give you "uncovered cases. |
| 13:47:21 | krux02 | @alexander42 his after the ban stats, well then we are at the PR that I reviewed today. |
| 13:47:27 | disruptek | mratsim: why is this bad? i love that feature for code migration. |
| 13:47:31 | krux02 | I am sorry I don't see an improvement. |
| 13:49:31 | krux02 | Cadey, you have to try it |
| 13:49:37 | krux02 | I don.t know your code base. |
| 13:49:43 | krux02 | the compiler will tell you if it works |
| 13:51:19 | Cadey | ah yep |
| 13:51:22 | Cadey | okay cool thanks |
| 13:52:00 | Cadey | https://github.com/Xe/tradukilo/commit/1b09a3c09ed598e63cdef1d6d4d0eea250c58f04 |
| 13:52:24 | FromGitter | <alehander42> krux02 well man, it just sounds .. very personal still |
| 13:52:29 | disruptek | mratsim: the only downside i can see is that you pin the code to a specific version of the compiler, but that's why we have majors. i'd rather have a proc that could produce detail not captured by the enums. |
| 13:52:50 | disruptek | alehander42: because it doesn't get more personal than someone apparently wasting your time. |
| 13:53:09 | FromGitter | <alehander42> and not correct, it feels like "just make a pr which seems bad to us again and this is the end" |
| 13:54:24 | FromGitter | <alehander42> @disruptek if the author was anybody else, nobody would talk about wasting time and conspirations |
| 13:55:19 | FromGitter | <alehander42> conspiracies* |
| 13:56:01 | FromGitter | <alehander42> still: i am in the wrong, because i also became personal: i am sorry, you guys do great work, but i still think the whole treatment of the timothee stuff is very very worrying |
| 13:56:03 | disruptek | sadly, unless prs are anonymous, we're always going to be faced with considering them with more or less respect according to our respect for the source. it seems that some have lost respect among project leaders. i'm not sure you can lay the blame at the leaders for this, though i'm not defending krux02 in his response. |
| 13:56:05 | FromGitter | <alehander42> ok |
| 13:56:34 | krux02 | disruptek, thank you |
| 13:57:46 | disruptek | i'm usually the guy wasting their time, but i've been on the receiving end many, many times, and it gets old faster when the personal providing the prs is more talented than the pr suggests. |
| 13:57:58 | disruptek | ^person |
| 13:58:54 | disruptek | it's just annoying to have someone show you that they think their time is worth more than yours while they ask for your help to do their work, especially when that comes at a cost to the rest of the community. |
| 14:02:11 | FromGitter | <Varriount> Hrm. One of the problems with compiler development is that it's really easy to fix a problem, but fix it in such a way as to either break something outright, or introduce unneeded design flaws. |
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| 14:04:54 | disruptek | that's why we work together. |
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| 14:14:01 | disruptek | what i mean is, anyone can create a patch to solve their problems and merely keep it to themselves in their fork. once you begin a campaign to get that work integrated upstream, a new set of responsiblities comes into play. |
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| 14:14:40 | disruptek | i personally think nim's exception handling is broken, but until i'm ready to offer a solution that works for everyone, i'll simply stop whining about it or using it in my software. ;-) |
| 14:23:47 | leorize | narimiran: isn't this a bit offtopic? https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/11717#issuecomment-514201280 |
| 14:24:15 | narimiran | :D |
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| 14:24:42 | FromGitter | <alehander42> he has fans |
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| 14:25:08 | narimiran | i sometimes miss not having github PMs |
| 14:26:19 | leorize | we wouldn't need that many social networks :P |
| 14:28:17 | FromGitter | <Varriount> I've seen people (ab)use github issues as blog posts. Using them for social-network purposes isn't that far-fetched. |
| 14:29:20 | FromGitter | <Varriount> If anyone is visiting Virginia, I would love meeting up with them too. :P |
| 14:29:43 | FromGitter | <alehander42> btw i am proposing plovdiv for nimconf 2020 |
| 14:29:49 | FromGitter | <alehander42> i totally forgot to make a RFC |
| 14:30:25 | leorize | how does the RFC repo actually work? |
| 14:31:01 | leorize | I don't think anyone actually submit RFC as PRs |
| 14:31:20 | FromGitter | <Varriount> leorize: Theoretically, people post large, language design issues there. |
| 14:31:24 | FromGitter | <alehander42> https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/4957 i know madrid is a strong candidate, but we have um katmi and artsy streets |
| 14:31:31 | FromGitter | <Varriount> @alehander42 https://www.google.com/flights#flt=/m/0rh6k.PDV.2019-08-08*PDV./m/0rh6k.2019-08-13;c:USD;e:1;sd:1;t:f |
| 14:31:35 | FromGitter | <Varriount> :< |
| 14:32:05 | FromGitter | <alehander42> yes the airport is just .. in a weird management state |
| 14:32:10 | FromGitter | <alehander42> but sofia is like very close |
| 14:32:14 | FromGitter | <alehander42> and it has many flights |
| 14:32:26 | FromGitter | <alehander42> ok, sofia is a more reasonable candidate :P but i had to try |
| 14:32:40 | FromGitter | <Varriount> O_o |
| 14:33:12 | FromGitter | <Varriount> @alehander42 Why is it cheaper for me to fly to Sofia, then it is for me to fly to Great Britain? |
| 14:33:30 | narimiran | lower airport fees? |
| 14:33:35 | FromGitter | <alehander42> we have like 4-5 bulgarian nim programmers |
| 14:33:42 | FromGitter | <alehander42> almost f i v e |
| 14:33:56 | FromGitter | <alehander42> we're a nim hub |
| 14:34:31 | FromGitter | <Varriount> @alehander42 Well, you could count on me flying there. I'll fly just about anywhere, as long as its relatively safe and the ticket doesn't eat my wallet |
| 14:34:35 | FromGitter | <alehander42> otherwise no idea btw, sofia-london usually have very cheap tickets as well, so it doesnt make sense to me |
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| 14:38:14 | FromGitter | <alehander42> @Varriount you have to visit eastern europe at least once |
| 14:39:43 | FromGitter | <mratsim> @disruptek are you talking about my SIMD review, I like the fact that for enum you get “not all cases covered” but for something that will evolve a lot like CPU features we should add procs progressively, so that the public API is stable |
| 14:48:50 | sealmove | guys, how do I go about removing ansi color sequences from a string in nim? |
| 14:53:18 | Zevv | re/nre replace? |
| 15:02:23 | sealmove | replace(re"\x1b\[[0-9;]*m") will do it? |
| 15:05:00 | Zevv | that looks like perl, so should be pretty much ok I guess |
| 15:05:22 | sealmove | wow it worked |
| 15:06:30 | FromGitter | <alehander42> i should learn perl |
| 15:07:58 | FromGitter | <mratsim> you should implement perl in Nim :p |
| 15:11:15 | FromGitter | <alehander42> too complicated: for now barely working on a nim-like toy |
| 15:11:28 | FromGitter | <alehander42> perl in nim is like phd stuff :P |
| 15:11:42 | FromGitter | <Varriount> What about writing perl in perl? |
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| 15:19:41 | FromGitter | <alehander42> perl 6 |
| 15:19:45 | FromGitter | <alehander42> but not sure |
| 15:19:58 | FromGitter | <alehander42> how about c in nim btw |
| 15:20:09 | FromGitter | <alehander42> finally, having our own toolchain |
| 15:20:15 | FromGitter | <alehander42> nim to 01 |
| 15:20:18 | FromGitter | <alehander42> in nim :P |
| 15:25:04 | sealmove | has anyone tried perl 6? |
| 15:32:06 | FromGitter | <awr1> hello, @mratsim thx for the comments, will make some changes and commit something later |
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| 15:58:31 | FromGitter | <mratsim> you’re welcome |
| 15:58:53 | FromGitter | <mratsim> you can progress on the current things and add caching later btw |
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| 16:13:31 | FromGitter | <alehander42> sorry again for my contribution remarks |
| 16:13:53 | FromGitter | <alehander42> i have to finally see if my nil pr has any valid future in it or not |
| 16:14:08 | FromGitter | <alehander42> @Araq https://github.com/alehander42/Nim/blob/ref-nilcheck/compiler/nilcheck.nim ? should i drop this, or should i eventually try to use a cfg |
| 16:14:16 | FromGitter | <alehander42> or do you plan to finish your own checks |
| 16:14:38 | FromGitter | <alehander42> (valid future like, am i gonna ever stop being lazy) |
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| 16:30:24 | shashlick | i'm working on https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/11814 |
| 16:30:50 | shashlick | for some reason on osx, i'm seeing a totally random issue |
| 16:31:17 | shashlick | https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/koch.nim#L314 results in `bin/nim c --skipUserCfg --skipParentCfg --nimcache/nimcache/d_macosx_amd64 --compileOnly compiler/nim.nim` |
| 16:31:46 | shashlick | note how the `--nimcache:$#` gets converted into `--nimcache/nimcache/d_macosx_amd64` |
| 16:32:08 | shashlick | where did the `:` go and where did the `/` come from? |
| 16:33:08 | shashlick | i know i'm working on osseps.nim which could have a bug, but this is just a strutils thing, no separators involved |
| 16:33:19 | shashlick | https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/koch.nim#L289 |
| 16:33:24 | shashlick | any ideas appreciated - thanks |
| 16:44:51 | FromGitter | <Varriount> shashlick: Be careful, osproc is dangerous territory. There are nasty things hiding in that jungle. 😳 |
| 16:54:48 | shashlick | Who eats colons |
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| 17:09:03 | federico3 | (sigh) |
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| 17:26:40 | stefanos82 | shashlick: colonel of course! |
| 17:29:35 | Araq | alehander42 : keep it for now |
| 17:41:10 | FromGitter | <Varriount> Araq: Is there any other information on Nim's module mechanics, aside from what is in the manual? Things like, what an import statement is relative from, etc |
| 17:42:22 | Araq | I think nimc.rst has further information, relative is always relative to the path of the file that contains the 'import' |
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| 17:58:33 | lqdev[m] | shashlick: I'm trying to compile a nimterop wrapper on Windows, I get a missing DLLs error from toast (libgcc_s_seh-1.dll) |
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| 18:06:25 | dom96 | Araq, Did you export the videos? |
| 18:07:08 | FromGitter | <awr1> @lqdev[m] what is the wrapper for? |
| 18:07:20 | lqdev[m] | GLFW |
| 18:07:47 | lqdev[m] | and it uses the git module to get the source code from github |
| 18:08:50 | lqdev[m] | but it occurs with every wrapper I try, it's an error thrown by toast.exe |
| 18:12:21 | FromGitter | <awr1> apparantly some libraries/apps require the GCC structured exception handler dll thing that b/c they use mingw-w64 libc. |
| 18:12:44 | FromGitter | <awr1> according to google anyway |
| 18:13:10 | lqdev[m] | I suppose I should install MinGW manually? |
| 18:13:34 | FromGitter | <Obround> Is there some way you can declare a type that depends on another type without having to declare them in the same `type` block? |
| 18:16:10 | FromGitter | <awr1> @Obround if you don't want to put them in the same `type` block you have order your types such that the root type that's being referred to is above the type that's referring to it. if it's cyclic you need them both in the same type block. you can also try `{.experimental: "codeReordering".}` but ymmv |
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| 18:17:39 | FromGitter | <awr1> also @lqdev[m] try -static-libgcc? statically linking to the mingw libc is weird but it may fix it |
| 18:22:22 | FromGitter | <awr1> does the nim stdlib even use libc on windows? i thought it just punched into the win32 DLLs directly |
| 18:31:04 | FromGitter | <Obround> @awr1 -- I get this error: `Error: invalid pragma: experimental: "codeReordering"` |
| 18:31:35 | lqdev[m] | @awr1 where do I pass that argument? --passL? |
| 18:32:28 | FromGitter | <awr1> yes |
| 18:32:56 | FromGitter | <awr1> @Obround which version of the compiler are you on |
| 18:33:19 | FromGitter | <Obround> Nim Compiler Version 0.20.0 [Windows: i386] |
| 18:33:55 | FromGitter | <awr1> where are you using it in the code? it should be a global pragma by itself at the beginning of the module, don't attach it to a type |
| 18:34:41 | FromGitter | <Obround> Oh, ok... |
| 18:35:57 | FromGitter | <awr1> the invalid pragma error could probably be more descriptive for valid pragmas in the wrong spot |
| 18:37:19 | FromGitter | <Obround> Nay, The pragma works but is un-able to re-order the code so that the two `types` are defined in the same block |
| 18:38:39 | FromGitter | <awr1> are these types cyclic |
| 18:39:06 | FromGitter | <awr1> code reordering will probably add types in the future |
| 18:40:11 | FromGitter | <awr1> but like i said if they are cyclically-referent they need to be in the same block |
| 18:40:39 | disruptek | mratsim: maybe a `case` is simply the wrong concept and what you want is a set of enums. i'm not saying `proc` isn't simple, just that it may not be the simplest. i try to write the simplest code i can, because it opens up more options for complex growth when necessary. |
| 18:41:04 | disruptek | it's bikeshedding in any event, just a stylistic nit. |
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| 18:58:14 | shashlick | @lqdev - i don't explicitly ask for libgcc_s |
| 18:58:26 | shashlick | but if you are compiling with mingw gcc, it would need it probably |
| 18:59:11 | FromGitter | <mratsim> I'm not married to a solution but I just don't want one that will force library user to target either devel or stable but not both at the same time |
| 19:00:04 | FromGitter | <mratsim> Public enums for something that will be extended later is bad for that (another case of the expression problem) |
| 19:03:25 | lqdev[m] | shashlick: I'm compiling using the MinGW downloaded by finish.exe |
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| 19:18:54 | FromGitter | <Varriount> Anyone else using code reordering? |
| 19:19:02 | clyybber | Yeah, I am |
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| 19:21:03 | FromGitter | <Varriount> clyybber: Have you had to use `nim check` at all to view errors that are skipped when using code reordering? |
| 19:21:56 | FromGitter | <Varriount> I've had cases where the compiler bailed out and said that a procedure wasn't defined, when it was. This was due to the (supposedly missing) procedure containing some error |
| 19:35:53 | clyybber | Varriount: No, at that point I didn't use nim check anymore. |
| 19:36:15 | clyybber | But I remember that I had a similar issue once.. |
| 19:37:19 | FromGitter | <Varriount> clybber: Basically, if I just run `nim c`, I only get an error saying that a particular procedure isn't defined (when it definitely is). I have to run `nim check` to get the actual error. |
| 19:40:07 | clyybber | Hmm, thats weird. Definetely report it. |
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| 19:44:11 | FromGitter | <Varriount> That being said, aside from that (and a few other bugs) code reordering is great |
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| 19:48:31 | clyybber | Yeah |
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| 19:51:10 | sealmove | hey, how to confirm mail for posting on forum? |
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| 19:59:31 | clyybber | Araq: Haha, want to know something funny? Its a wonder tcustomseqs hasn't failed yet.. Notice the distinct lack of alloc0 here: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/tests/destructor/tcustomseqs.nim#L121 |
| 20:00:33 | Araq | good catch |
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| 20:16:19 | clyybber | Araq: Kind of interesting: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/11248/commits/38b46508be78b57d9eb82e9f9aabd9fc0bf4c566 The allocCount increased from 6 to 10 with the new spec/implementation, but the deallocCount stayed the same. |
| 20:16:35 | clyybber | Yet absolutely no memory is leaking :p |
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| 20:24:32 | clyybber | bbl |
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| 20:46:51 | FromGitter | <awr1> i use code reordering too. @Varriount is this relevant to you? https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/8822 |
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| 22:24:31 | FromGitter | <deech> What is the difference between a `macro` and a `proc` that operates on or returns a `NimNode`? |
| 22:25:58 | FromDiscord_ | <treeform> deech, you can use macro like a function, while a proc that operates on NimNodes you can't actually call. |
| 22:26:49 | FromDiscord_ | <treeform> well sorry, what I meant to say, proc will not evaluate at compile time if its not part of some other macro |
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| 22:44:22 | shashlick | what's the filename for a dynamic library in OSX? what is it for MacOS (not X) |
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| 22:45:57 | FromGitter | <mratsim> dylib |
| 22:46:04 | FromGitter | <mratsim> or .so |
| 22:46:33 | shashlick | why does platform.nim say $1Lib |
| 22:46:35 | FromGitter | <mratsim> for MacOS, I guess it's the same, it's still an Unix/BSD |
| 22:46:45 | shashlick | the older MacOS |
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| 22:53:39 | FromGitter | <deech> treeform, thanks! |
| 22:54:59 | FromGitter | <deech> Is there a way to deep freeze a `ref`, i.e convert a `ref` to a non-ref all the way down? |
| 22:58:47 | shashlick | @dom96 - you around? |
| 22:59:03 | dom96 | yes |
| 22:59:59 | shashlick | I'm looking at https://github.com/nim-lang/nimble/issues/674 |
| 23:00:23 | shashlick | `nimble c` = actionCompile which calls execBackend in nimble.nim |
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| 23:00:42 | shashlick | https://github.com/nim-lang/nimble/blob/master/src/nimble.nim#L512 |
| 23:00:56 | shashlick | this does not do anything in tmp - are you sure that's what you saw? |
| 23:01:14 | shashlick | i thought nimble only downloads to tmp when you are installing a package which isn't local |
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| 23:04:48 | dom96 | shashlick, yeah, I've got a bunch of projectname-checkout-2019-07-15.21:17:18 directories in my /tmp |
| 23:05:25 | shashlick | this is the only spot where code is checked out - https://github.com/nim-lang/nimble/blob/master/src/nimblepkg/download.nim#L212 |
| 23:05:28 | disruptek | maybe it's scribblin' in `.` and you were in /tmp at the time. |
| 23:06:48 | shashlick | we don't include the word "checkout" in strings |
| 23:07:17 | shashlick | doesn't look like it was nimble |
| 23:08:10 | dom96 | hm, yeah, you're right |
| 23:08:17 | dom96 | I think it's something else |
| 23:08:30 | shashlick | okay can we close it? |
| 23:08:31 | dom96 | Sorry about the noise :) |
| 23:08:34 | dom96 | Closed it |
| 23:08:40 | shashlick | no problem |
| 23:08:54 | shashlick | yay that was easy 😄 |
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