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| 00:10:13 | FromDiscord | <pipeliner.osdev> hey which compiler is faster?↵clang? mvsc(vcc)? gcc? icc? |
| 00:37:51 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=ZkOlSQOr |
| 00:38:11 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> (edit) "https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=VizjmjeI" => "https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=OVLNWEmW" |
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| 01:38:42 | FromDiscord | <_timurski> In reply to @im_rob "Can someone help me": change `body` to `untyped` |
| 01:40:12 | FromDiscord | <_timurski> can't have a `typed` body when there's no body yet. but this is indeed a confusing error message |
| 01:42:02 | FromDiscord | <_timurski> Nim's comptime complexity unfortunately does make it a lot more prone to bugs |
| 01:46:11 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @pipeliner.osdev "hey which compiler is": in which way? compilation speed or when running a binary? Compilation speed will nearly never be an issue, since it's the Nim compiler that adds most of the compilation time↵↵Runtime speed, iirc Clang produced faster binaries than gcc |
| 02:02:54 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> In reply to @_timurski "can't have a `typed`": I needed the untyped for reflection on the proc's return type and thought I was lucky when I got this error message |
| 02:03:01 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> Appreciate it |
| 02:03:27 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> I understand very little of this |
| 02:03:31 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> macros very new to me |
| 02:04:01 | FromDiscord | <_timurski> it's very understandable, it might help to do something as simple as to read the first half of "Crafting Interpreters" |
| 02:04:11 | FromDiscord | <_timurski> knowing just a bit more about compiler design can help a lot |
| 02:04:25 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @im_rob "Can someone help me": I have a question, what are you trying to do? |
| 02:05:24 | FromDiscord | <_timurski> LLMs are also actually quite good at writing macros in my experience, because you can easily debug them with `expandMacros` and there's a lot of code which is just a pain to write by hand |
| 02:05:56 | FromDiscord | <_timurski> but you should definitely understand them yourself if you're using them in your project |
| 02:06:06 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> ngl i wouldn't trust a LLM to write macros |
| 02:06:34 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> i wouldn't trust a LLM for most code meant for serious use besides for small things |
| 02:06:37 | FromDiscord | <_timurski> my best success with it was getting to optimize spline evaluations, which is extremely easy to verify correctness for |
| 02:06:50 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> ah? spline evaluations? |
| 02:06:52 | FromDiscord | <_timurski> yes |
| 02:06:54 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> In reply to @_timurski "it's very understandable, it": I'll take a look |
| 02:06:55 | FromDiscord | <_timurski> evaluating b-splines |
| 02:07:29 | FromDiscord | <_timurski> In reply to @battery.acid.bubblegum "i wouldn't trust a": my experience is just that if you give specific instructions where there's no ambiguity, it usually works great |
| 02:07:43 | FromDiscord | <_timurski> "implement algorithm X in this proc" is usually fine |
| 02:07:51 | FromDiscord | <_timurski> however as soon as you get into any architectural decisions it all goes to shit |
| 02:08:29 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> that makes sense, gotcha |
| 02:09:55 | FromDiscord | <_timurski> In reply to @battery.acid.bubblegum "ah? spline evaluations?": it managed to implement a compile-time version of Horner's method (spline degrees were known at comptime) where it's very obvious that the generated code can't get any faster, leading to 640 million spline evaluations / sec on my mac m1 |
| 02:10:36 | FromDiscord | <_timurski> which is pretty damn good |
| 02:10:51 | FromDiscord | <_timurski> definitely something a human could do as well, not anything genius-level, but it saves time |
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| 02:46:09 | FromDiscord | <pipeliner.osdev> In reply to @battery.acid.bubblegum "in which way? compilation": speed of running binary |
| 04:18:35 | FromDiscord | <lainlaylie> #nim-ai |
| 05:07:29 | FromDiscord | <asviest> In reply to @battery.acid.bubblegum "in which way? compilation": I wouldn't say so, last time when I tested, compiling nim code with clang (especially zig cc) was much faster. I don't sure why, maybe nim compiler overhead reduced because parallel compilation of different modules (I'm not sure if Nim before 2.4 can do that) or because I have some C deps that compiles faster but seems that compilation with clang (zig cc) is definetly fast |
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| 07:40:39 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> In reply to @battery.acid.bubblegum "ngl i wouldn't trust": I have a Nim -> Cuda/OpenCL/Vulkan/WebGPU compiler implemented in macros and DeepSeek V4 Flash is able to navigate it fine, even the getType/getTypeImpl/getTypeInst madness |
| 07:40:59 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> also macro fails at compile-time so instant compiler feedback |
| 07:41:09 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> (edit) "macro fails" => "macros fail" |
| 07:42:56 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> but like @_timurski said, for greenfield you need to either DYI or very strong steering. For incremental addition it's fine. For refactoring, make very clear goals. |
| 07:43:24 | FromDiscord | <_timurski> what's DYI? |
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| 08:22:52 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> In reply to @_timurski "what's DYI?": typo, DIY -> Do It Yourself |
| 09:46:55 | FromDiscord | <_ot> was there @ everyone ping or something |
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| 11:24:56 | FromDiscord | <mratsim> In reply to @_ot "was there @ everyone": I don't think so but it might have been deleted |
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| 12:10:30 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @mratsim "I have a Nim": hm. fair ig |
| 12:20:48 | FromDiscord | <Phil> In reply to @_timurski "what's DYI?": Don't Yodle Instantly |
| 12:20:57 | FromDiscord | <Phil> Always prepare |
| 12:21:09 | FromDiscord | <Phil> (edit) "Always prepare ... " added "first" |
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| 15:49:08 | skulk | anyone have any tips on debugging weird ARC/ORC issues where a ref gets invalidated after being returned from a function? |
| 15:49:44 | skulk | I have a nondeterministic situation where a proc returns a ref (which is valid at the time of return) but seems to get garbage-collected and causes a segfault when it's dereferenced by the caller |
| 15:50:16 | skulk | and it seems to have a very specific set of conditions to trigger it, resisting any attempts at creating a small example that I can share |
| 15:50:28 | skulk | (I can just switch to --mm:markAndSweep and it goes away) |
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| 18:04:55 | FromDiscord | <puffball1567> sent a long message, see https://pasty.ee/qJkDPivb |
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| 18:36:56 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> In reply to @_timurski "it's very understandable, it": Putting this out there for others that are unfamiliar with macros and compilers, can second this recommendation. ↵Just glancing has already been helpful. Going to follow through the rest just for the exercise of learning.↵Many thanks! |
| 18:37:16 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> (edit) "Going" => "I'm going" | "I'm goingto follow through the rest ... just" added "of the book" |
| 18:40:59 | jjido | which book? |
| 18:41:54 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> In reply to @jjido "which book?": "Crafting Interpreters"↵↵I'm open to others if you have any in mind. |
| 18:42:33 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> This is a subject I've been avoiding for no good reason. Time to learn |
| 18:42:33 | jjido | I studied that one already |
| 19:00:51 | FromDiscord | <_timurski> In reply to @im_rob "Putting this out there": I'm glad! |
| 19:19:41 | FromDiscord | <helix0172_61946> chat is a sigsev during compilation normal or nah |
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| 19:31:13 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> In reply to @helix0172_61946 "chat is a sigsev": what os? |
| 19:31:19 | FromDiscord | <helix0172_61946> Linux |
| 19:31:24 | FromDiscord | <helix0172_61946> Ubuntu to be specific |
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| 19:32:48 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> compiling nim itself or code you wrote? |
| 19:32:54 | FromDiscord | <helix0172_61946> code i wrote |
| 19:33:15 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> I mean it's not normal but it's not uncommon depending on what's going on |
| 19:33:42 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> what compiler you using? |
| 19:33:45 | FromDiscord | <helix0172_61946> Damn called me out for having no idea what im doing |
| 19:34:12 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> haha |
| 19:34:22 | FromDiscord | <helix0172_61946> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=XtRcVQZS |
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| 19:36:43 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> maybe nim version issue? |
| 19:37:10 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> I see 2.2.4 has a few sigsev issues that were fixed in later versions |
| 19:37:34 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> In reply to @helix0172_61946 "Damn called me out": for the record I'm likely not far off from this myself |
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| 19:38:08 | FromDiscord | <helix0172_61946> In reply to @im_rob "maybe nim version issue?": I was trying to get the .treeRepr of a nim node (nnkSym) i just created, it didnt like that |
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| 19:38:50 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> care to share the code? |
| 19:39:31 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> mostly for my own curiosity |
| 19:40:33 | FromDiscord | <helix0172_61946> Let me see if i can throw together a minimal example |
| 19:51:07 | FromDiscord | <helix0172_61946> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=beelHesl |
| 19:51:25 | FromDiscord | <helix0172_61946> It needs the return value for some reason, otherwise the error is handled properly so this might be an actual bug |
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| 19:52:58 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> well obviously it segfaults because you call segfault |
| 19:53:04 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> no no I'll see myself out... |
| 19:53:18 | FromDiscord | <helix0172_61946> That was w rage bait |
| 19:53:26 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> I'm here all night |
| 19:53:34 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> but yeah does seem like a compiler bug? |
| 19:53:44 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> or more like a poor description of the issue |
| 19:53:57 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> I believe, and bare with me digging into macros and the compiler is new to me |
| 19:54:26 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> but I believe that newNimNode(nnkSym) is invalid |
| 19:55:00 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> (edit) "newNimNode(nnkSym)" => "`newNimNode(nnkSym)`" |
| 19:55:53 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> [nnkSym is a compiler-resolved symbol ](https://nim-lang.org/docs/macros.html)↵↵"Identifiers are nnkIdent nodes. After the name lookup pass these nodes get transferred into nnkSym nodes." |
| 19:56:31 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> which I believe implies that nnkSym nodes are produces during semantic analysis and not for manual construction? |
| 19:57:01 | FromDiscord | <im_rob> @_timurski Hope you're cool with me at'ing you. Could you weigh in? |
| 19:58:34 | FromDiscord | <helix0172_61946> I was attempting to match trees which is how i normally go about creating macros. I did see that quote in the manual so i moved to a newIdentNode and hoped it would work. Havent gotten to a point where i can test that yet though |
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| 23:46:02 | FromDiscord | <helix0172_61946> I should not have banked on expressions https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1529998054483034162/image.png?ex=6a63f93a&is=6a62a7ba&hm=dffc6effe818c2e69c51d5ce667310014ad0d8c2d2b695fb7e3c75d4cbbb7f68& |
| 23:46:16 | FromDiscord | <helix0172_61946> I wonder if a lamba would fix this?? |
| 23:48:49 | FromDiscord | <helix0172_61946> Actually why am i doing this inside of the quote do |
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| 23:57:59 | FromDiscord | <helix0172_61946> Oh i see what the issue is, that if statement is not an expression but ive been treating it like it was |
