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| 11:26:15 | shevy | dom96 no |
| 11:26:23 | shevy | dom96 stay up, make it through the night |
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| 14:27:45 | Trixar_za | shevy: I once said that to a girl |
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| 16:23:31 | dyu | dom96: hey |
| 16:23:48 | dom96 | hi dyu |
| 16:26:18 | * | dyu forgot his password for the nimrod forum dom96 |
| 16:27:03 | dom96 | yeah, we need a password reset thing ASAP |
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| 18:26:08 | filwit | hi dom96, Araq |
| 18:26:49 | filwit | so i was playing around with macro's and templates a little, and I'm pretty sure I can actually achieve this in Nimrod: https://gist.github.com/PhilipWitte/6665942 |
| 18:28:07 | filwit | so sort of a simplified sub-syntax that does a bunch of invisible bookkeeping and connects to an visual editor |
| 18:28:26 | filwit | I think it's possible, but not entirely sure everything is yet |
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| 18:32:44 | fowl | filwit, nah, you want components ;) |
| 18:32:59 | filwit | ? |
| 18:33:13 | filwit | components? |
| 18:33:29 | filwit | is that in reference to some Nimrod feature i don't know of? |
| 18:34:22 | fowl | no, my component library |
| 18:34:35 | filwit | mind if i take a look? |
| 18:34:54 | fowl | fowltek/entitty |
| 18:35:48 | filwit | you wrote an Astroids game in Nimrod? |
| 18:35:52 | filwit | :D |
| 18:36:14 | fowl | yea but im not sure how far along it is |
| 18:36:22 | fowl | i havent looked at it in a long time |
| 18:36:31 | filwit | ah, i see |
| 18:37:26 | filwit | hmm.. i'm not seeing entity anywhere on your github |
| 18:39:47 | filwit | if i every make a game-engine in Nimrod, I will call it either 'Nimble' or 'Throne Room' |
| 18:40:37 | filwit | could you send me a direct link to your entities framework? i would like to take a look, but can't find it on your github |
| 18:41:05 | fowl | 1 sec |
| 18:41:25 | fowl | https://github.com/fowlmouth/nimlibs/blob/master/fowltek/entitty.nim |
| 18:41:36 | filwit | thanks |
| 18:42:43 | filwit | woah, what? you can do: import path/to/module |
| 18:42:44 | filwit | ?? |
| 18:42:56 | fowl | yep |
| 18:43:14 | filwit | didn't know that.. that's awesome |
| 18:43:41 | filwit | so you can have a bit of linux-style hierarchy :) |
| 18:43:57 | fowl | yea |
| 18:44:07 | Araq | you can also do: import stupid.path.module once I pushed my changes |
| 18:44:09 | fowl | or com/filwit/module |
| 18:44:22 | filwit | nice Araq, i'm glad to hear that |
| 18:44:24 | Araq | and it's then possible to have 2 'utils' modules |
| 18:44:34 | Araq | and you can do: import xyz as abc |
| 18:44:59 | Araq | and then don't you dare bother me again with these things |
| 18:45:12 | filwit | i can't believe you did that, i thought you hated hierarchy with a passion, lol |
| 18:45:21 | filwit | haha, so thanks |
| 18:45:21 | Araq | oh I do |
| 18:46:51 | filwit | btw, it seems a few people liked my "type Foo: Bar = ..." idea |
| 18:47:05 | Araq | I've also implemented --cs:partial to get first character CS |
| 18:47:14 | Araq | and I might go with --cs:full some day |
| 18:47:31 | Araq | also you'll get object X of Y = syntax |
| 18:47:43 | filwit | okay, awesome :) |
| 18:47:46 | Araq | plus "submodule" |
| 18:47:51 | Araq | submodule fu: |
| 18:47:54 | Araq | var x: int |
| 18:48:04 | Araq | and then use fu.x everywhere |
| 18:48:13 | filwit | i hate the name submodule.. but i'm glad you're adding the feature |
| 18:48:24 | filwit | although to be honest, i don't really need it anymore |
| 18:48:26 | Araq | what should it be then? |
| 18:48:36 | filwit | since i discovered how to make the 'using' template |
| 18:48:53 | Araq | no idea how 'using' has anything to do with it unless |
| 18:48:56 | filwit | i'm happy with just that.. that way, you can also 'import' the module fully |
| 18:49:00 | Araq | you want to put everything in single files |
| 18:49:04 | Araq | oh wait ... |
| 18:49:07 | fowl | what is "first character CS" |
| 18:49:11 | Araq | indeed that's what you like |
| 18:49:28 | filwit | wait, i don't want everything in one file.. |
| 18:49:39 | fowl | instead of 'submodule' how about 'namespace' |
| 18:49:49 | filwit | exactly the opposite |
| 18:49:58 | filwit | yeah, i like fowl's idea |
| 18:50:05 | filwit | 'namespace' makes sense and is common |
| 18:50:21 | Araq | it's wrong though |
| 18:50:30 | Araq | you don't simply put everything into a "namespace" |
| 18:50:31 | fowl | oh, CS = case sensitivity |
| 18:50:43 | Araq | because you already have a namespace due to the module system |
| 18:50:48 | Araq | so everybody will get it wrong |
| 18:50:55 | Araq | and so submodule is a much better term for it |
| 18:51:16 | filwit | oh wait, you're adding in CS as a compiler switch? nice |
| 18:51:21 | Araq | also take everything I say with a grain of salt |
| 18:51:31 | Araq | because I'm so pissed off you wouldn't believe it |
| 18:51:39 | filwit | what, why? |
| 18:52:05 | fowl | just found out you got the clap from that hooker you found in STL? |
| 18:52:30 | filwit | ^ ha |
| 18:54:14 | * | Mat2 joined #nimrod |
| 18:54:16 | Mat2 | hi all |
| 18:54:21 | filwit | hello |
| 18:54:23 | Araq | hi Mat2 |
| 18:54:32 | Mat2 | hi Araq and filwit |
| 18:54:45 | filwit | dom96 would be proud, seems like 40 irc users is common now |
| 18:55:25 | Mat2 | what's new ? |
| 18:56:10 | filwit | Steam OS just came out? |
| 18:56:16 | filwit | kinda cool |
| 18:57:35 | Mat2 | don't know. What are the characteristcs of these OS ? |
| 18:57:43 | Mat2 | ^characteristics |
| 18:57:51 | filwit | well it's just Linux, so that's good |
| 18:57:53 | Araq | it's written in Clojure |
| 18:57:58 | filwit | lol |
| 18:58:05 | fowl | As weve been working on bringing Steam to the living room, weve come to the conclusion that the |
| 18:58:06 | Araq | and uses Ruby as it's posix compatible shell |
| 18:58:06 | fowl | environment best suited to delivering value to customers is an operating system built around Steam itself. |
| 18:58:06 | fowl | SteamOS combines the rock-solid architecture of Linux with a gaming experience built for the big screen. |
| 18:58:06 | fowl | It will be available soon as a free stand-alone operating system for living room machines. |
| 18:58:27 | Araq | *its |
| 18:58:33 | fowl | well if i cant play skyrim on it what good is it |
| 19:00:17 | filwit | you can play Skyrim actually |
| 19:00:22 | * | Mat2 an OS for streaming games... well, ... |
| 19:00:29 | filwit | on your windows computer, then stream it to the Steam OS |
| 19:00:42 | filwit | it's part of the announcement |
| 19:01:28 | filwit | but that's only temporary till more companies start supporting native linux builds |
| 19:01:49 | filwit | they hinted at more AAA titles being announced soon too |
| 19:02:45 | Araq | "Perhaps instead of (this as Person).greet()" |
| 19:02:53 | Araq | what is this guy talking about? |
| 19:03:08 | Araq | (this as Person)? where was that proposal? |
| 19:03:18 | Mat2 | ??? |
| 19:03:54 | fowl | this.Person.greet works right |
| 19:04:04 | Araq | yeah |
| 19:04:35 | Araq | so ... |
| 19:04:43 | filwit | Araq, it was just in one of the code examples |
| 19:04:43 | Araq | how do I make the internet shut up about Miley Cyrus? |
| 19:04:47 | filwit | in my gist |
| 19:05:09 | filwit | i didn't know how to do that in Nimrod, so i just wrote it as (this as Person) to convey the idea |
| 19:05:11 | fowl | Araq, log off facebook |
| 19:05:22 | Araq | I don't care about her tongue or breasts |
| 19:05:33 | Araq | fowl: I'm not in facebook |
| 19:05:34 | fowl | she has breasts now? when did that happen |
| 19:05:45 | fowl | filwit, Person(this) or this.Person |
| 19:05:58 | filwit | yes, fowl, thanks |
| 19:06:09 | filwit | i just fogot when i was writing it |
| 19:10:46 | Araq | btw what's wrong with guys? |
| 19:11:00 | Araq | hanging around here instead of watching BB? |
| 19:11:15 | filwit | BB? |
| 19:11:27 | fowl | whats BB |
| 19:11:34 | Mat2 | Big Bang Theory ? |
| 19:11:42 | filwit | Bouncing Boobs |
| 19:11:53 | Mat2 | Big Breasts ? |
| 19:12:01 | fowl | lol i was just downloading gifs of bouncing boobs earlier |
| 19:12:14 | fowl | i use my library time mostly to download movies tho |
| 19:12:26 | filwit | Bicycling Bimbos |
| 19:13:00 | filwit | lol, fowl |
| 19:13:31 | Araq | breaking bad |
| 19:13:47 | filwit | pfft, i watched that last night |
| 19:13:57 | filwit | can't wait for the last episode |
| 19:14:02 | Araq | i see |
| 19:14:09 | Araq | no spoilers! |
| 19:14:33 | Mat2 | sounds like a tv serie |
| 19:14:43 | filwit | you've never heard of Breaking Bad? |
| 19:14:53 | Mat2 | ehm no |
| 19:15:00 | filwit | it's a great show.. about meth. |
| 19:15:20 | filwit | lol, no but really, it's a great show |
| 19:16:12 | Mat2 | I watch only documentaries and news channels some time |
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| 19:16:34 | filwit | i see, well then it's probably not your thing |
| 19:16:40 | Mat2 | hi Associat0r |
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| 19:17:41 | filwit | rejected. |
| 19:18:52 | fowl | meth isnt glamorous |
| 19:19:01 | fowl | tweakers are the worst kind of people |
| 19:20:29 | filwit | i am a tweaking meth addict, and i feel insulted. you should respect my life-style and not generalize slander at the entire meth community |
| 19:21:21 | filwit | (was joking, in case that got lost in the translation) |
| 19:26:27 | Mat2 | need some sleep,. ciao |
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| 20:01:43 | dom96 | hello |
| 20:01:53 | filwit | hi |
| 20:03:03 | filwit | dunno how much back-logs you read, but you should take a look at my gist Nimrod Engine/SDK goals: |
| 20:03:04 | filwit | https://gist.github.com/PhilipWitte/6665942 |
| 20:03:50 | filwit | was playing around with macros and templates a little, and figured i might actually be able to get that sort of syntax for a game-engine |
| 20:04:18 | filwit | really kinda cool actually, it's very simple, and fixes some problems i was having in design before |
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| 20:05:18 | filwit | for instance (the basic example), is implicitly defined, user/editor defined, special-purpose variables in engine events (the 'on' statements) |
| 20:06:46 | filwit | meaning, 'on collide: ...' implicitly defined a 'collisionPoint' variable which can be used in it's scope, but that variable can actually be described inside an editor, so users can completely customize their game-pipe, including special variables, and the script syntax remains very clean |
| 20:07:02 | filwit | i was pretty impressed with Nimrods potential here :) |
| 20:07:19 | filwit | hopefully i'm able to get away with syntax similar to that |
| 20:09:41 | * | ltbarcly quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 20:10:00 | Araq | looks quite do-able to me |
| 20:10:14 | * | gsp quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 20:10:59 | filwit | yeah, that's what i was realizing by reading through adrianv's 'declClass' code |
| 20:11:47 | filwit | i didn't realize Nimrod was capable of being so customized, but I really think i've found a great fit for it's macro's power in a game-engine |
| 20:12:37 | Araq | yeah but I would do it all differently now |
| 20:12:54 | Araq | I would simply get rid of the entire macro system and instead allow '.' as part of an identifier |
| 20:13:06 | filwit | hmm? |
| 20:13:09 | Araq | then you.can.do.this.everywhere.and.everybody.likes.the.language |
| 20:13:18 | Araq | and.I.can.instant.fame |
| 20:13:26 | filwit | lol |
| 20:13:45 | filwit | well you can always evolve the language |
| 20:14:37 | filwit | i think, if Nimrod had a "star app/framework" (that used it like in my example :P), it would catch on much quicker, because people could see the practicality of some of it's advanced meta-programming in a very real way |
| 20:14:59 | filwit | but you can always make a Nimrod 2 eventually |
| 20:15:32 | filwit | hey, for a Nimrod game engine, what name do you guys prefer: 'Nimble' or 'Throne Room'? |
| 20:16:15 | dom96 | There is far too many nimrod projects which begin with 'nim' now, so the latter :P |
| 20:16:43 | filwit | yeah, i kinda like that one too :) |
| 20:17:02 | filwit | Nimrod.. the king in the Throne Room |
| 20:17:04 | filwit | lol |
| 20:17:30 | filwit | maybe just 'Throne' would be better |
| 20:17:51 | filwit | or 'Throne Tech' or something |
| 20:18:42 | filwit | or a better saying: Game X, powered by Throne Room, command by Nimrod |
| 20:18:53 | filwit | commanded** |
| 20:19:47 | Araq | "Throne Room" ... not too bad |
| 20:21:25 | filwit | yeah, i was thinking about names for it, and that one is growing on me. Since a game engine's editor is where you "command" your game, and Nimrod's reference to kings |
| 20:24:12 | filwit | oh, ps Araq.. since we're getting "object Foo of Bar = ...", any chance that we'll see "tuple Vector = ..." as well? |
| 20:26:19 | Araq | sure thing |
| 20:26:35 | filwit | awesome :D |
| 20:27:21 | Araq | I always happily spend my time on features that end up saving you 10 lines of code out of a 100K code base |
| 20:27:39 | filwit | haha, yeah i know, i know |
| 20:27:44 | filwit | but other's liked the idea too |
| 20:28:31 | filwit | besides, they're just feature suggestions. I'm going to be building my own kind of framework pieces using Nimrod's awesome macro system |
| 20:29:07 | filwit | so i'm fine with no change at all, just thought it was a good idea in general, since the syntax as it stands today feels inconsistent to me |
| 20:30:15 | Araq | we have type/const/var/let sections |
| 20:30:32 | Araq | routines didn't get a section because a routine is usually longer |
| 20:30:52 | Araq | but sure it's "inconsistent" with how C# does it |
| 20:31:02 | filwit | sections? |
| 20:31:29 | filwit | and no, not inconsistent with 'C#', it's inconsistent with Nimrod's own procs, IMO, as i state in the gist |
| 20:32:19 | filwit | "proc name: Type = ..." doesn't really match "type Name = object or Other ..." |
| 20:40:18 | dom96 | 'object Foo =' will be inconsistent with the current 'type \n Foo = object' |
| 20:43:23 | Araq | filwit: when I designed the language I had at one point |
| 20:43:32 | Araq | object x = ... |
| 20:43:46 | Araq | array a = ??? |
| 20:44:00 | Araq | set s = ??? |
| 20:44:24 | Araq | and hence I took it over from pascal because 'type' sections make much more sense to me |
| 20:45:12 | Araq | you can't make everything 100% consistent with each other |
| 20:45:31 | Araq | that works perhaps for scripting language which have much fewer syntactic elements to begin with |
| 20:47:32 | Araq | also ... you're the guy who argues 'object x = ...' should be a singleton, right? |
| 20:47:55 | Araq | in any way, it could mean that too |
| 20:48:39 | * | io2 quit () |
| 21:08:01 | filwit | well actually, i wouldn't mind "type Foo: object Bar = ..." either |
| 21:08:20 | filwit | and that would allow for array, set, etc under one 'type' decl |
| 21:09:15 | filwit | and to be honest, i'm almost against having an ambiguity in the type syntax (aka, not sure i actually like the 'object Foo of Bar') |
| 21:09:49 | filwit | i like the "object Foo of Bar" syntax much better, but i'm not sure it's justified |
| 21:11:33 | filwit | inconsistency in syntax is a bad thing really, IMO. it makes the learning curve go up, and that's an important thing to avoid I think (for the sake of adoption) |
| 21:12:14 | filwit | so making "object Foo =" syntax (if you make it at all) mean a singleton would probably be better |
| 21:12:25 | Araq | I won't make it |
| 21:12:32 | filwit | yeah |
| 21:12:43 | Araq | because having 4 ways to do the same is much worse than 1 "bad" way to do it |
| 21:13:02 | filwit | yeah, i agree |
| 21:13:08 | fowl | whats wrong with type X : object of Y |
| 21:13:12 | filwit | it causes a headache for documentation |
| 21:13:23 | Araq | it doesn't |
| 21:13:24 | filwit | but yeah, i agree with fowl |
| 21:13:31 | Araq | type Foo = object #\ |
| 21:13:38 | Araq | # some long description here |
| 21:13:46 | Araq | # going on and on |
| 21:14:43 | filwit | the only inconsistency i see with the type syntax right now, is where the '=' sign is |
| 21:15:02 | Araq | and yet it's perfectly consistent for people knowing the language |
| 21:15:06 | Araq | type X = foo |
| 21:15:10 | Araq | const X = 12 |
| 21:15:14 | Araq | var X = 44 |
| 21:15:22 | Araq | proc p = 34 |
| 21:15:33 | filwit | now add types... |
| 21:15:41 | filwit | type Foo = object of Bar |
| 21:15:44 | filwit | var x: int = 0 |
| 21:15:53 | filwit | proc foo: int = 0 |
| 21:15:57 | filwit | different |
| 21:15:59 | Araq | yup |
| 21:16:03 | Araq | it's beautiful |
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| 21:16:11 | filwit | so what works better, IMO, is: |
| 21:16:25 | filwit | type Foo: object int = 0 |
| 21:16:34 | filwit | or shorthand: |
| 21:16:40 | filwit | type Foo: int = 0 |
| 21:16:49 | filwit | (cause it defaults to object) |
| 21:17:03 | filwit | and then it's more consistent |
| 21:17:43 | filwit | again though dude, idk what kind of request that is to make. let me be clear, It's JUST an observation. |
| 21:18:00 | filwit | if changing something like that takes you a bunch of your life, don't worry about it |
| 21:18:06 | Araq | you left out the field names ... |
| 21:18:19 | Araq | and I don't worry about it because it makes no sense |
| 21:18:43 | Araq | but it surely is nice how willingly people are about breaking my 100K lines of code |
| 21:19:05 | Araq | for some superficial asthetic reasons |
| 21:19:05 | filwit | lol |
| 21:19:37 | dom96 | You know what would be awesome? If we stopped talking about these silly issues and worked on things which are actually a problem. |
| 21:19:52 | fowl | yeah like issue 341 |
| 21:19:58 | filwit | superficial or not, syntax is not a completely irrelevant thing when considering user perception.. |
| 21:20:26 | filwit | but i agree with your sentiment |
| 21:20:31 | Araq | Nimrod's syntax is already better than any other syntax that I've seen |
| 21:20:46 | Araq | feel free to disagree |
| 21:21:05 | filwit | i will agree 50% |
| 21:21:16 | filwit | i like many things about it's syntax |
| 21:22:01 | filwit | but your right, i'm done talking about these things |
| 21:22:16 | filwit | i'm just going to use macros anyways i think, so i don't care |
| 21:22:40 | filwit | i think the ability to sort of define your own "keywords" in nimrod is great |
| 21:22:42 | shevy | syntax is important |
| 21:22:54 | dom96 | filwit: Every user is different, we can be constantly adjusting the syntax to accustom to everyone's preference but that is a huge waste of time IMO. |
| 21:24:10 | shevy | when I was using perl, I kept on forgetting the ; character at the end of a line often |
| 21:24:31 | filwit | dom96: that has a multi-faced answer, and I agree with Araq on just letting it go |
| 21:24:33 | shevy | problems like this would not happen in python or ruby |
| 21:26:52 | filwit | dom96: i'll probably just end up using macro's anyways, since then i have the ability to bind them to global event/exec with simple declarative syntax |
| 21:27:34 | filwit | dom96: that's what i was thinking writing that gist last night, that if i could actually end up writing like this, i would be very happy with the syntax of Nimrod |
| 21:27:48 | filwit | dom96: cause i can just sorta customize it to my preference, haha |
| 21:28:39 | filwit | dom96: no need to argue of the finer points of syntax design really, when you can just customize it (using itself) to your liking |
| 21:32:55 | fowl | i wrote a thing so you can write c like type mystruct : struct { var x : int, y : *char } |
| 21:33:41 | filwit | nice, really? that's cool |
| 21:34:20 | filwit | i would really love to see that code :) |
| 21:34:36 | filwit | could be very helpful to me later on |
| 21:37:42 | Araq | fowl: I can't see how that parses |
| 21:44:58 | Araq | unless you have it in a string lit of course |
| 21:48:51 | fowl | https://github.com/fowlmouth/cpptranny |
| 21:50:42 | fowl | Araq, a lot easier than parsing c |
| 21:51:51 | Araq | sure but that's not nimrod code |
| 21:52:19 | fowl | it will be one day |
| 21:52:21 | Araq | it's not like you can make mystruct : struct { var x : int, y : *char } |
| 21:52:32 | Araq | valid nimrod code with the right macros |
| 21:53:31 | fowl | cant* ? |
| 21:54:03 | Araq | you can't, yes |
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| 21:55:17 | fowl | um |
| 21:55:22 | fowl | like i said, its for writing C |
| 21:57:18 | Araq | why would anyone write C instead of Nimrod? |
| 21:57:26 | Araq | doesn't make sense :P |
| 21:59:22 | filwit | btw, what are Nimrod's CTFE file system capabilities? |
| 21:59:41 | filwit | can i fopen() from a CTFEed proc? |
| 22:00:41 | Araq | yeah with -d:useFFI |
| 22:00:54 | filwit | awesome :) |
| 22:01:12 | Araq | also staticRead and staticExec work without any special bootstrapping switch |
| 22:01:42 | filwit | idk what that means really |
| 22:02:17 | Araq | I'm sure that doesn't stop you from telling me I got the names wrong and it will hurt nimrod's future |
| 22:03:41 | Araq | ;-) |
| 22:03:50 | filwit | it's always been my goal to criticize constructively |
| 22:04:03 | filwit | i think we just disagree with how important we feel some things are |
| 22:04:24 | Araq | nah, I'm in a very bad mood today, taht's all |
| 22:04:31 | filwit | but i'm actually pretty impressed with the sorts of things i'm thinking about for macro's |
| 22:05:23 | filwit | i actually think Nimrod might be a great language for a game engine |
| 22:05:43 | filwit | since it can do so many things, and compiles to C |
| 22:07:07 | filwit | the ability to define very controlled "scopes" that inject their own variables into the mix actually fixes a problem i was having before with a design |
| 22:07:41 | filwit | specifically related to an robust state-system for game entities |
| 22:07:53 | filwit | Nimrods ability to allow me to do things like: |
| 22:08:00 | filwit | mode SomeStage: |
| 22:08:19 | filwit | goal 2, Seconds: @x = 100 |
| 22:08:39 | filwit | loop 60, FPS: @x += 1 |
| 22:08:47 | filwit | crap, wrong indentation |
| 22:08:55 | filwit | but you get what i'm saying. |
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| 22:09:31 | filwit | the syntax becomes very clean, and allows me to just invisibly inject a bunch of construction code, based on the "keyword" |
| 22:12:31 | filwit | it's great really, especially, since you just told me i can do fopen() at compile time, i and also automatically link with a project file and inject variables based on adjustments made from a GUI/Editor |
| 22:14:03 | filwit | feel like i'm rambling here, but just saying, I do like part of Nimrod's design a lot |
| 22:14:21 | Araq | yeah but fopen should be File.open ... I'm pretty sure C won't ever become successful |
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| 22:15:04 | Araq | in fact |
| 22:15:18 | Araq | it should be System.IO.File.open |
| 22:15:31 | filwit | i'm not sure why you are bringing this up |
| 22:15:48 | filwit | i've given answers to those things before |
| 22:16:05 | Araq | I'm just messing with you sorry |
| 22:16:09 | Araq | and actually |
| 22:16:14 | Araq | not even with you in particular |
| 22:16:28 | Araq | I'm having a bad day |
| 22:16:30 | filwit | yeah i figured its just a bad day |
| 22:16:43 | filwit | you mentioned that before, sux |
| 22:20:44 | Araq | but more seriously |
| 22:20:58 | Araq | would you agree when I say the human brain works like this: |
| 22:21:06 | Araq | file.IO.System |
| 22:21:06 | filwit | no |
| 22:21:13 | Araq | instead of |
| 22:21:17 | Araq | System.IO.file |
| 22:21:36 | Araq | like I first think of "file!" and then I categorize it |
| 22:23:00 | filwit | var finger = finger.hand.arm.Philip |
| 22:23:12 | Araq | yes |
| 22:23:37 | filwit | i don't think that way normally, depending on what it is i'm interacting with |
| 22:24:04 | filwit | see, one is you're finding meta-data about an object |
| 22:24:25 | filwit | a bananna is a fruit, which is a plant, etc |
| 22:25:02 | filwit | but when you're trying to distinguish something from a mass of things, it's best to work from reverse |
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| 22:25:35 | filwit | it also probably depends on your native language |
| 22:25:47 | filwit | some put adjectives after the noun |
| 22:25:54 | filwit | english almost always puts it before |
| 22:26:07 | Araq | I'm not talking about noun verb constallations |
| 22:26:24 | filwit | so maybe more items in your language come with post-fix search categories, and you've learned to think of them that way |
| 22:26:51 | Araq | I'm talking about concrete.levelup.levelup2 -- that's the thought process |
| 22:26:52 | filwit | well you asked me how you think the brain works... that's a pretty involved process |
| 22:27:00 | Araq | not levelup2.levelup.concrete |
| 22:27:10 | filwit | it depends on it's application |
| 22:27:17 | Araq | nobody starts with the highly abstract thing |
| 22:27:47 | filwit | yes, which i agree with |
| 22:27:51 | Araq | in fact, it's really *hard* to thing what the category is IMO |
| 22:27:55 | Araq | *think |
| 22:28:13 | Araq | especially when it's more than 1 level |
| 22:28:16 | filwit | interesting |
| 22:28:41 | filwit | i always categorize things in my head, personally |
| 22:29:25 | Araq | yes you do |
| 22:29:38 | Araq | but it's always in the opposite direction |
| 22:30:09 | Araq | you don't think Family.Brother.Foo, get over here |
| 22:30:33 | Araq | you can re-construct that Foo is your brother and thus part of your family |
| 22:30:46 | Araq | but most of the time you don't have too fortunately |
| 22:30:51 | Araq | *to |
| 22:31:03 | Araq | the brain loves short cuts |
| 22:31:26 | filwit | because brother is part of a small, commonly used array of information |
| 22:32:00 | filwit | but if you are dealing with a large crowd of people you've never met, each with their own jobs you little about, then it's useful to have uniforms |
| 22:32:06 | filwit | if that makes sense |
| 22:33:01 | filwit | by going top-down, you can reach information you don't know much about, by asking what you're use case will be |
| 22:33:40 | filwit | System (something to do with the sytem). Console (that terminal thingy). write (puts text there, great) |
| 22:34:22 | filwit | if i was unfamiliar which what i was trying to reach, which is often the case with large code bases, then it helps |
| 22:37:13 | Araq | it certainly never helped me when learning c# |
| 22:37:32 | Araq | it's totally random like if 'console' is somehow not part of 'system' |
| 22:37:58 | Araq | and what do you think I mean with 'open' anyway? "open" a can? |
| 22:38:09 | Araq | this is programming, after all |
| 22:38:21 | filwit | except when your code is a game script... |
| 22:38:29 | filwit | you don't want "open" to be "open a file" |
| 22:38:37 | filwit | you want "open" to be "open that door" |
| 22:38:59 | filwit | which is why having both the option to "using" and "import" is what i think is good |
| 22:39:11 | filwit | so if i just want to use "write(...)" |
| 22:39:19 | filwit | i say: import Console |
| 22:40:28 | filwit | but see, that's what i'm saying is so good about the marco thing |
| 22:40:57 | filwit | but anyways, i wont go over that again |
| 22:47:16 | Araq | good |
| 22:53:36 | dom96 | The fact that an 'open' call refers to a 'file' or 'door' can be pretty easily deduced by the variable that is passed to it. |
| 22:54:01 | dom96 | if not then call it 'openDoor' and problem solved. |
| 22:55:38 | dom96 | Anyway, sorry for resurrecting this. |
| 22:55:44 | dom96 | Just my thoughts. |
| 22:55:49 | dom96 | I need to sleep anyway, good night. |
| 22:56:09 | Araq | good night |
| 23:13:40 | filwit | night dom.. |
| 23:13:44 | filwit | probably wrote that awhile ago |
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