<< 23-11-2021 >>
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00:33:16FromDiscord<pyautogui> Is the {.extern.} pragma supposed to work with functions that take typeclass arguments?
00:34:55FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Probably not since you cannot know the code required
01:44:55FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FP8
01:45:56FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I mean it starts showing it but gives up
01:45:58FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Which is odd
01:46:07FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> yeah. mid line
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01:46:53FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> There might be an existent issue, you're not using MT are you?
01:47:18FromDiscord<lenis> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FP9
01:47:37FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Indeed hell on earth 😛
01:49:32FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> In reply to @Elegantbeef "There might be an": threads are enabled though i don't think i have them doing anything
01:49:45FromDiscord<tsoj> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FPb
01:51:30FromDiscord<codic> do you have a very old version perhaps?
01:52:02FromDiscord<tsoj> Doesn't seem so: `nimble v0.13.1 compiled at 2021-10-19 01:07:39`
01:59:04FromDiscord<lenis> maybe an issue with your nible cache or something
02:00:05FromDiscord<gdquest> Is there a function to do regex replace by calling a function on each match like in Python? Or anything that would make it convenient to process each match? ↵I have code in which I need to process every match to insert extra HTML before it.↵I'm using `re.findBounds()` right now as an alternative to just find each portion of the string and process it. Works well but it's not as convenient
02:00:54FromDiscord<gdquest> I couldn't find that in the standard lib, so if I'm not missing anything, I was wondering if someone had that kind of code out there.
02:01:59FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FPe
02:02:02FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> I seem to recall you showing something similar beef?
02:03:44FromDiscord<lenis> In reply to @gdquest "Is there a function": you can process each match using findAll, but you cant modify the string in the iterator
02:04:18FromDiscord<lenis> https://nim-lang.org/docs/re.html#findAll.i%2Cstring%2CRegex%2Cint
02:05:56FromDiscord<lenis> hmm, that isnt really useful for your usecase I think
02:07:26FromDiscord<lenis> im guessing you could take inspirtation from https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/version-1-6/lib/impure/re.nim#L447
02:08:15FromDiscord<gdquest> In reply to @lenis "you can process each": Thanks, yup saw that. That'd work if it returned the bounds but there it doesn't.
02:08:34FromDiscord<gdquest> And yeah the code I have is very similar
02:08:37FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FPf
02:09:15FromDiscord<gdquest> I keep forgetting to look at the std's source code, that's a great resource to learn, thanks!
02:09:55FromDiscord<lenis> You're welcome 😅
02:10:03FromDiscord<lenis> yeah the std source is pretty useful
02:10:09FromDiscord<lenis> and the nim docs link to the source for each function
02:10:18FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> @ElegantBeef thanks!
02:10:44FromDiscord<lenis> https://i.gyazo.com/f056d7f255819d771362b7f6984bb08a.png
02:10:52FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> you can even drop the `@` if you want
02:11:03FromDiscord<lenis> https://i.gyazo.com/f056d7f255819d771362b7f6984bb08a.png
02:12:10FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> @gdquest ↵Use split, then recombine them with the replacement string inbetween? I'm not sure what you mean by bounds tho..
02:12:15FromDiscord<lenis> In reply to @lenis "and the nim docs": Its a useful life hack. @gdquest
02:16:14FromDiscord<gdquest> In reply to @IsaacPaul "<@!202865241971884032> Use split,": Split doesn't work in this case because it doesn't return the separating regex. The things I'm looking to replace are strings like ``SomeClassName``
02:16:19FromDiscord<gdquest> (edit) "``SomeClassName``" => "`\`SomeClassName\``"
02:16:28FromDiscord<gdquest> (edit) "`\`SomeClassName\``" => "\`SomeClassName\`"
02:16:57FromDiscord<gdquest> findBounds returns the start and end index of a found pattern based on a regexp
02:17:16FromDiscord<gdquest> That's what I'm calling bounds - it allows me to capture the string and feed it to a function
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02:24:05FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> ah ya that makes sense
02:35:41FromDiscord<evoalg> @gdquest sorry I'm wondering why you don't use `replace` from the re or regex modules?
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03:32:00FromDiscord<Lincent> Hello
03:32:17FromDiscord<evoalg> Hi
03:32:28FromDiscord<Lincent> nim is a cool lang
03:32:39FromDiscord<Lincent> I found it on wikipedia lol
03:33:20FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's indeed
03:33:37FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Any questions?!
03:33:47FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I'm sure evo will be more than happy to answer them
03:33:50FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> 😛
03:33:52FromDiscord<Lincent> would nim be a hight tier language or a mid tier?
03:34:05FromDiscord<Lincent> or maybe both concurrently?
03:35:05FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well it can be used like a fancy C, but can also be used as a automatically memory managed language
03:35:37FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Like evo here is relatively new to Nim from python and probably doesnt find it that confusing
03:37:03FromDiscord<Lincent> likewise
03:37:11FromDiscord<Lincent> I noticed it is very similar to python
03:37:16FromDiscord<Lincent> but also C
03:37:32FromDiscord<evoalg> hehe yes it can be used as a high level language like python, so you can get into the nitty gritty behind the scenes stuff if you want to or need to
03:37:58FromDiscord<evoalg> I mean but you can...
03:39:00FromDiscord<evoalg> I tend to use it it high level and nothing fancy (as I don't know much) but it still runs at C-like-speed
03:39:47FromDiscord<evoalg> I had to (and still am having to) get around the typed vars as I'm not used to that
03:40:08FromDiscord<Lincent> yea that's a very C thing lol
03:40:26FromDiscord<Lincent> I wonder does it have something like an auto type from C++?
03:40:36FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nim defaults to inferred types
03:40:42FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> `var a = 300`
03:40:50FromDiscord<Lincent> ok cool
03:40:52FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> We only use type annotations for proc defs typically
03:41:29FromDiscord<Lincent> seems straightforward
03:41:55FromDiscord<Lincent> I think my goal will be to do something with nimbers in nim
03:42:02FromDiscord<Lincent> just because :D
03:50:48FromDiscord<evoalg> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/3FPx
03:52:43FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> evolag leaves out that there's also me which is neither knowledgeable or shaping anything 😛
03:52:56FromDiscord<evoalg> not true!
03:53:14FromDiscord<Lincent> you've been very helpful so far, thanks
03:53:31FromDiscord<Lincent> there's 2k people on this server
03:53:47FromDiscord<Lincent> I'm sure one if I ask might answer if I have a question
03:54:02FromDiscord<Lincent> and there's always github and google
03:55:13FromDiscord<evoalg> I can tell you already know more than me about programming in general ... I think you'll be fine
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05:36:49FromDiscord<lenis> In reply to @evoalg "Personally, nim's been a": some of the docs are lacking. memory management, dll generation and threading could use more info
05:37:08FromDiscord<lenis> you have to resort to the blog or forum posts for some things
05:39:50FromDiscord<evoalg> In reply to @lenis "you have to resort": Thank you. Oh and I wanted to ask, when you were testing different gc's for mem usage, did you do that with some sort of debugger / profiler?
05:41:49FromDiscord<lenis> No i used Araq's test from his ORC post https://nim-lang.org/blog/2020/12/08/introducing-orc.html↵↵Later i switched to using benchy to avoid the overhead of the async http server which has cycles.
05:42:03FromDiscord<evoalg> nice
05:42:37FromDiscord<lenis> I still dont fully understand why ORC was so much slower in my final test case, I need to do some further research.↵I think it has to do with the number of ref object allocations but im not certain
05:43:12FromDiscord<lenis> just goes to show that you should write your nim code, and then benchmark it with several GCs to figure out which one is best for your code
05:43:49FromDiscord<lenis> the biggest advantage of ORC is that it has the cycles collector optimization which makes it the only viable option if sub 100ms latency is important
05:44:35FromDiscord<lenis> and for most use-cases ORC performs similarly to refc
05:45:50FromDiscord<evoalg> Is refc the default gc in nim 1.6? I've noticed when doing different programs, sometimes orc is good and sometimes arc is good and sometimes default
05:47:02FromDiscord<lenis> I think refc is still the default.
05:47:10FromDiscord<evoalg> Also for some things `nim -d:danger --passC:-flto c foo.nim` is the fastest
05:47:23FromDiscord<lenis> refc has surprisingly good latency and trhougput as long as the cycle collector doesnt run
05:49:14FromDiscord<lenis> lto only makes sense when your application will always (or almost always) be used in the same way
05:49:31FromDiscord<evoalg> ... but you may know that I don't know what I'm talking about ... I don't know what latency and throughput is? ... should I be looking at more than the speed of the executable to run?
05:50:22FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Latency and throughput are two marks you can use to bench long running programs
05:50:44FromDiscord<lenis> throughput is simply how much work your application can perform in a given amount of time.↵For a webserver that's requests per second. for a game that's frames per second, etc.
05:50:56FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Latency is "how long inbetween messages" and throughput is the overall "how many messages per second"
05:51:15FromDiscord<lenis> ^^^
05:51:38FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> So with ORC you get lower latency but you dont get as much throughput cause the cycle collector takes some time
05:51:47FromDiscord<lenis> latency in the context of GC means how long your request (for web) or frame (for games) will take in a worse-case scenario during a GC cycle
05:52:00FromDiscord<lenis> (edit) "latency in the context of GC ... means" added "latency"
05:52:25FromDiscord<lenis> (edit) "games)" => "games/UI)"
05:52:37FromDiscord<evoalg> bad latency should decrease throughput though?
05:52:54FromDiscord<lenis> that depends
05:53:19FromDiscord<lenis> traditional GCs like markAndSweep defer all deallocation work so it can do it all at once more efficiently
05:54:00FromDiscord<lenis> this means that the latency is greater, because your application is frozen while doing garbage collection, but the overall time spent deallocating memory is less than when doing reference counting
05:54:10FromDiscord<lenis> at least in theory, in practice it's more complicated
05:54:20FromDiscord<evoalg> ahhh ok!
05:54:33FromDiscord<lenis> ORC/ARC are well optimized so sometimes they can actually have better througput than markAndSweep
05:55:40FromDiscord<lenis> thats mainly because ARC/ORC only manage memory that is being mutated. where as markAndSweep has to check the entire heap
05:55:41FromDiscord<evoalg> ok ... as usual, things are more complex that I first thought 😉
05:55:54FromDiscord<evoalg> (edit) "that" => "than"
05:56:07FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well in your case fast is fast 😛
05:56:35FromDiscord<evoalg> lol ... no I actually understand the diff between latency and throughput now!
05:56:56FromDiscord<evoalg> (but really I just care about fast, you're right)
05:57:13FromDiscord<lenis> yeah
05:57:31FromDiscord<lenis> in summary, latency is how responsive your application is, throughput is how fast your application is
05:57:44FromDiscord<lenis> latency isnt always important though
05:58:10FromDiscord<lenis> i mean, professionally I only use Java. So I ought to know.
05:58:22FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Lol
05:58:43FromDiscord<lenis> Java actually has surprisingly good throughput, but worst-in-class latency
05:58:55FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Sorry i didnt get that the world stopped
05:59:15FromDiscord<evoalg> makes sense ... I think people were battling with this stuff with voip when it first came out, as bad lags are unacceptable even if they only happen every now & then
05:59:51FromDiscord<lenis> exactly
06:00:19FromDiscord<lenis> VOIP, video players, UIs, etc. all require low latency because any "lag spike" is unacceptable
06:00:51FromDiscord<lenis> pursists will tell you that if latency matters at all you should allocate memory manually
06:01:04FromDiscord<lenis> but these guys just like to spent all their time in memory profilers
06:01:18FromDiscord<lenis> they're like people who make their own pasta
06:01:26FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Whereas Email servers and webhooks can handle a few seconds of latency and throughput is actually better 😀
06:01:50FromDiscord<lenis> yes
06:02:08FromDiscord<lenis> seconds is rare though
06:03:17FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Hey exaggeration never killed anyone, i swear i thought the car was kilometres away
06:03:18FromDiscord<lenis> usually GC cycles take somewhere in the neighborhood of 30-500ms
06:03:31FromDiscord<lenis> nim gives you plenty of options
06:03:38FromDiscord<lenis> just not generational garbage collectors
06:04:20FromDiscord<evoalg> nice
06:04:41FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Worst comes to worst you have `alloc` and `dealloc` 😛
06:04:55FromDiscord<lenis> blasphemy
06:05:47FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Hey it's a system language afterall, what else are you supposed to do with those procs?!
06:06:11FromDiscord<lenis> set them to discard
06:06:17FromDiscord<lenis> 😛
06:06:45FromDiscord<lenis> no im kidding. alloc/dealloc has its use-cases
06:07:19FromDiscord<lenis> my favorite thing coming from Java in Nim though, is that you can allocate objects on the stack
06:07:26FromDiscord<lenis> in Java all objects are ref objects
06:07:46FromDiscord<lenis> only primitives are allocated on the stack
06:07:54FromDiscord<Rika> is refc not a generational?
06:08:26FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yea that's one thing i laugh at java about
06:09:03FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @lenis "in Java all objects": its not even a jvm limitation
06:09:16FromDiscord<lenis> No. refc is deferred reference counting + markAndSweep cycle collector
06:09:17FromDiscord<Rika> java just decided that "ok lets fuck with all our future users" /s
06:09:30FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Want to make a game with your own vector type, die to lack of stack allocated types!
06:12:49FromDiscord<lenis> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/3FPP
06:14:00FromDiscord<lenis> refc is faster in theory but when a cheap reference counting cycle doesnt clear enough memory refc runs a full markAndSweep cycle which means that sometimes it does double work
06:14:25FromDiscord<Rika> yeah
06:14:46FromDiscord<Rika> orc and arc should be advertised less as "better" and more as it really is, deterministic, i guess
06:15:01FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well orc isnt deterministic
06:15:11FromDiscord<Rika> it's "kinda" deterministic
06:15:23FromDiscord<Rika> as araq says
06:15:38FromDiscord<lenis> a generational gc however (like, Java's G1 GC) works by keeping a counter with each object in memory that is incremented whenever it "survives" a GC cycle.↵After a certain number of survived cycles, the memory is concidered old and moved to a seperate area in the heap that is checked much less frequently
06:16:56FromDiscord<lenis> the idea of a generational GC is that most memory is short-lived. and the memory that isn't short lived is unlikely to be deallocacted. so the GC can skip tracing the old memory most of the time
06:17:18FromDiscord<lenis> where as something like markAndSweep scans the entire heap every cycle
06:17:31FromDiscord<lenis> (edit) "scans" => "traces"
06:18:09FromDiscord<Rika> boehm is generational
06:18:36FromDiscord<lenis> ah. i hadnt looked into boehm because it requires a dll
06:19:10FromDiscord<Rika> time to check if it works well for you(r use case) 😛
06:19:59FromDiscord<lenis> maybe another day
06:20:07FromDiscord<lenis> I have a meeting in 2 hours and I have yet to go to sleep
06:20:40FromDiscord<Rika> see you then, get ready for that meeting
06:32:04FromDiscord<haxscramper> arkanoid\:Nimtral that beef linked is just a dependency of haxdoc, and yes, haxdoc is able to do this, but I need to fix up the CI and installation in order for it to be at least somewhat useful, and before that I want to get some other things finished, so in short - no, there are no tools that can do things like that
06:32:17FromDiscord<haxscramper> And most likely haxdoc will target nimskull anyway
06:33:37FromDiscord<haxscramper> Even though for now it is just a cloud of vaporware with nothing that can be considered folly finished
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06:47:27FromDiscord<evoalg> @ElegantBeef I just realized you put a const in a proc (in your enum example) ... for some reason I never thought about ever doing that
06:48:11FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well there's a reason why you'd want to 😛
06:48:44FromDiscord<evoalg> if some can be determined at compile time then it should be a const?
06:49:26FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yep
06:49:47FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You should go `const` -\> `let` -\> `var`
06:50:01FromDiscord<evoalg> it wasn't clear to me, as that proc is some sort of generic, that's called by another proc (am I right about that?)
06:50:03FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> The thing is making the mutability is little as possible to remove any error
06:50:28FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nah a generic is instantiated replacing the parameters with those passed
06:50:38FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> So in this case it replaces `T` with `Weekdays`
06:50:53FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You can even manually do that and you'd see the same results
06:51:18FromDiscord<evoalg> and this is done at CT?
06:51:48FromDiscord<Rika> yes
06:51:49FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yes
06:52:07FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> When you call a generic procedure at the callsite if it hasnt been called before will instantiate a new procedure
06:52:18FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Otherwise it refers to the old one
06:52:31FromDiscord<evoalg> ahhh ok
06:55:23FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=t%20wr you can run this to follow the CT logic
06:57:30FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> ... ix gave me a bad link
06:58:34FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Hopefully this one is better https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FPX
06:59:24FromDiscord<evoalg> I was wondering why you gave me that hehe
07:05:53FromDiscord<evoalg> that's a really nice example ... it shows me that the proc that calls it makes it instantiated, even if the proc that calls it hasn't been called yet ... and I learned about "static: echo" and the error pragma ... 3 birds, one stone
07:08:16FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> lol
07:08:38FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> `static: echo` isnt special you can use static for most nim code, whenever you want to run code that doesnt rely on C interop at compile time 😀
07:09:33FromDiscord<evoalg> what sort of things besides echo doesn't require C interop?
07:09:46FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Pure Nim code 😛
07:10:24FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> For instance `Zippy` and `supersnappy` both run at compile time, one is file archiver, and the other a compression algorithim
07:10:25FromDiscord<evoalg> All of that example you gave me was pure nim? ... well I mean it was written in nim
07:11:01FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yes
07:11:18FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> https://github.com/guzba/zippy for reference
07:12:42FromDiscord<evoalg> So if I had a program to recursively work out the factorial of 30, and I make it all run in compile time?
07:13:07FromDiscord<evoalg> (sorry it's a new concept for me)
07:14:03FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You can do it, it might be slow or hit the stack but you can
07:14:16FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> The funny thing is you can use Nim code both at CT and run time without any magic
07:16:14FromDiscord<evoalg> my factorial example is a silly one, but for interest, how would I tell it to do it all at CT? when I do `static: proc fact(...` and `static: echo fact(30)` or I bet I can pass a compile fag ... and I bet there's a proc pragma too
07:16:23FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FQ6
07:16:31FromDiscord<evoalg> ooooooo
07:16:45FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> `static` is how you'd tell it to do it at `CT` you can do `static: for x in 0..10: echo x` if you wanted
07:17:29FromDiscord<Rika> ~~also `const a = ...` works differently from `let a = static: ...`~~
07:18:45FromDiscord<evoalg> In reply to @Rika "~~also `const a =": what does that strike-through font mean?
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07:19:54FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It means the there is a difference between const and let
07:20:05FromDiscord<Rika> a difference between const and let static
07:20:19FromDiscord<Rika> some people might think theyre basically the same
07:21:02FromDiscord<evoalg> ok I think I get why ... makes sense ... but your sentence had a strike-through font style and I'm wonder why you used that?
07:21:13FromDiscord<Rika> i just often do that
07:21:36FromDiscord<evoalg> hehe young people!
07:21:51FromDiscord<evoalg> I can never understand them
07:22:04FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> He says praising me whenever I explain stuff
07:22:21FromDiscord<Rika> beef isnt much older than me apparently
07:22:47FromDiscord<evoalg> beef is old in spirit, everyone knows that
07:22:59FromDiscord<Rika> i would have thought he was older than you
07:23:15FromDiscord<evoalg> mentally I think so
07:24:56FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Aw fuck am i already senile, i knew something was up
07:25:12FromDiscord<Rika> dude you say that with those spelling skills?
07:26:10FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Sorry rika i never had to learn to spell since i had spell check
07:26:27FromDiscord<Rika> even then people usually learned the spelling once they use spell check
07:27:14FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Why would i have to i just get close enough and it takes care of it, i write fast and proofread faster
07:27:38FromDiscord<Rika> you waste time every next occurrence of a misspell
07:27:50FromDiscord<Rika> just realised i used two commonly misspelled words lmao
07:27:57FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> That implies i always correct it
07:28:12FromDiscord<Rika> true, i doubt you ever
07:28:15FromDiscord<Rika> 😛
07:28:15FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I'm the epitome of a dumb dumb
07:36:23FromDiscord<evoalg> so not only does the generic get instantiated at CT on first call, but the calling site is replaced inline, right?
07:36:57FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nope it just gets instantiated
07:37:20FromDiscord<evoalg> ahhh is it only templates that are inlined?
07:38:24FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Templates/macros are inlined but also procs can be if the C compiler says "yep i should inline this"
07:38:33FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> templates/macros are inlined 100% of the time
07:39:21FromDiscord<evoalg> nice, thank you for being so easy to understand
07:40:13FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's the senility much closer to your mental age 😛
07:40:17FromDiscord<Rika> how do you have so much time
07:40:48FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Havent we been over this?
07:41:09FromDiscord<evoalg> who? ... me? I don't have much time left as you (thanks for reminding me)
07:41:22FromDiscord<Rika> oh are you sure about that
07:41:29FromDiscord<Rika> for all ya know i could be deathly sick
07:41:32FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Jeez so rude rika
07:41:38FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> We could only hope
07:41:45FromDiscord<evoalg> then I'd feel pretty bad right now
07:41:46FromDiscord<Rika> that i die first?
07:42:06FromDiscord<evoalg> not the first time I put my foot in it
07:42:14FromDiscord<Rika> ( i dont actually know what you mean by hope )
07:42:25FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I was jokingly saying it'd be good rika
07:42:44FromDiscord<Rika> thats exactly what im asking, wtf do you refer to when you say "it"
07:43:30FromDiscord<Rika> i should probably get to converting my processing script into nim/pixie or something ig
07:43:49FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> What's the processing code do?
07:43:56FromDiscord<Rika> uh display shit
07:44:01FromDiscord<Rika> what else does processing code do
07:44:09FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well ii more mean https://github.com/GabrielLasso/drawim does this work for you
07:44:18FromDiscord<Rika> i know
07:44:31FromDiscord<Rika> i need stroke weight hto
07:44:33FromDiscord<Rika> (edit) "hto" => "tho"
07:46:54FromDiscord<evoalg> With those generics you did for enums, will a different proc be created for each enum type that calls it?
07:47:02FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yep
07:47:08FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> That's how generics work
07:47:16FromDiscord<evoalg> gotcha ok
07:47:25FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> They take the types replace them then instantiate a new proc
07:47:56FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> There is a bit more logic in the back than that but it's the gis
07:47:57FromDiscord<evoalg> ahhh cheers
07:48:33FromDiscord<evoalg> no there isn't - I know everything now!
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08:17:06FromDiscord<lenis> In reply to @Elegantbeef "https://github.com/guzba/zippy for reference": someone made a pure nim implementation of zip? nice
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08:30:22FromDiscord<claude> was it always allowed for `foo()` in `type T = foo()` to return an nkObjectTy? i'm guessing it was since it the implementation looks like it allows it, but when i tried a long time ago it didn't work
08:32:13FromDiscord<claude> apparently it's not allowed, but nkEnumTy is
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10:03:43PMunchHmm, the "Which of these features do you use" section has an odd choice of options
10:04:15PMunchI mean I know that Nim has an effect system, I don't really use it for anything in particular, but I wouldn't say I don't have any need for it
10:04:34PMunchI'm just not sure what I'd use it for
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10:41:53FromDiscord<tandy> if i want to get the nim code for a certain 2d seq
10:42:05FromDiscord<tandy> can i just do `dumpAst:`?
10:43:02FromDiscord<tandy> dumpAstGen\
10:45:00FromDiscord<Rika> Hm? What do you mean?
10:45:08FromDiscord<Rika> That will return AST and not code
10:55:35FromDiscord<tandy> tru
10:55:41FromDiscord<tandy> nvm i jst handwrote the 2d array
10:56:14FromDiscord<tandy> so i have a seq[seq[GridSquare]], but when i compare two of them to check for equality, it doesnt work
10:56:36FromDiscord<tandy> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FQX
10:57:18FromDiscord<Rika> Doesn’t work like?
10:57:41FromDiscord<tandy> do i need another function to compare `seq[seq[GridSquare]]`?
10:58:06FromDiscord<Rika> I don’t think so
10:58:26FromDiscord<Rika> Are you getting an error or is it just not behaving as expected
10:58:42FromDiscord<Rika> Think you might need an == for seq in seq but I don’t remember
10:58:51FromDiscord<tandy> o wait i think i know what i need to do↵(@Rika)
10:58:59FromDiscord<tandy> il try that and come back
10:59:51FromDiscord<tandy> ok i fixed it \:)))
11:00:52FromDiscord<Marisol> I saw func keyword is just a macro for proc no side effects... but when to use func and when to use proc?
11:01:07FromDiscord<Rika> Not a macro
11:01:23FromDiscord<Rika> Use func if you want a guarantee of no side effects
11:01:26FromDiscord<Rika> Otherwise use proc
11:08:20FromDiscord<Marisol> Ah ok
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11:25:54FromDiscord<evoalg> func is just an alias for proc with no side effects (if I've got that right), and the idea is that if you are intending to produce no side effects, use func as good programming practice, so that if you did create side effects then it's a bug and the compiler will tell you about it when you compile (so errors can be caught early). Side effects are things like IO (but I'm not sure what else)
11:28:05FromDiscord<Rika> Anything relating to “modifying anything else other than inputs and outputs of the function”
11:28:13FromDiscord<Rika> IO, global state, etc
11:28:43FromDiscord<Rika> Actually not just modifying
11:28:59FromDiscord<Rika> “Being dependent on anything else…” is more accurate
11:29:26FromDiscord<Rika> So yeah there’s a lot of limitation unless you declare a lot of things as parameters
11:29:42FromDiscord<evoalg> thank you!
11:30:28FromDiscord<Rika> If you know math in a higher than elementary context (I guess?) then it is the same idea
11:35:45qwrIO can be considered modifing global state (ie external world being part of global state), so the func is proc that do not change global state
11:36:11qwrbut modification of var arguments is allowed
11:38:46qwras nim views var arguments as part of "return value", a bit like returning multiple values in some other languages
11:43:16PMunchYou can't read global state either
11:43:39PMunchBecause that would mean that this is possible myFunc(100) != myFunc(100)
11:44:15PMunchOr maybe I'm wrong
11:46:07FromDiscord<Yardanico> you're right
11:46:33FromDiscord<Yardanico> you can only use `const` globals in `func`s
11:53:53FromDiscord<evoalg> interesting!
11:55:47arkanoidhaxscramper, thanks for the feedback
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12:08:38FromDiscord<hmmm> what was the format of pre declaring procs before defining? proc thingy() =?
12:08:59FromDiscord<hmmm> compiler complains about nests 🤔
12:09:19FromDiscord<enthus1ast> prof foo(baa\: int)\: int
12:09:21FromDiscord<enthus1ast> proc
12:09:22FromDiscord<enthus1ast> ...
12:09:25FromDiscord<hmmm> why do we even have to pre declare stuff ffs
12:09:28FromDiscord<hmmm> so no equal
12:09:55FromDiscord<enthus1ast> to forward declare stuff
12:11:11FromDiscord<enthus1ast> i think for most stuff you can use the experimental code reordering
12:11:13FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @hmmm "why do we even": Limitation as of now, no idea if any plans to remove
12:11:40FromDiscord<enthus1ast> think Araq mentioned it in the forum post
12:13:04FromDiscord<enthus1ast> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FRp
12:15:13FromDiscord<enthus1ast> but a Version\: 2.x goal, so currently, just forward declare and call it a day 😊
12:15:51FromDiscord<enthus1ast> or restructure and not forward declare
12:15:52FromDiscord<enthus1ast> ;)
12:18:34FromDiscord<hmmm> I slapped a nice introductory section with #pre declare hacks, see you in 2.x. And predeclared all my stuff away, so now I am free like a birdbeer
12:24:40FromDiscord<enthus1ast> what i often do is while hacking i just forward declare, then in the end i restructure and i end with just a few forward declarations if any
12:26:24Amun-RaI've never used object inheritance in Nim before, I got a little problem: https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FRu
12:27:40FromDiscord<Yardanico> why are you using owned here though?
12:28:51FromDiscord<Yardanico> but about your question - can't you just do something like this?
12:28:58FromDiscord<Yardanico> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FRw
12:29:09FromDiscord<Yardanico> (forgot to put the s into the newStringStream call though)
12:39:28Amun-Rahmm
12:41:03Amun-Rathat's invalid object conversion
12:43:21FromDiscord<Yardanico> hm, yeah, I don't think you can do that
12:43:27FromDiscord<Yardanico> or maybe you can
12:43:31FromDiscord<Yardanico> I'm not good at OOP in Nim :)
12:43:37Amun-Rasame here ;>
12:44:36Amun-Rain worst case scenarion I'll just put string in proxy object as a member
12:44:41Amun-Rascenario*
12:49:13FromDiscord<gdquest> In reply to @evoalg "<@!202865241971884032> sorry I'm wondering": Because it doesn't fit my requirements. I need to replace with different things depending on the match - things that require processing each match individually
13:02:06FromDiscord<hmmm> hey how do I reset x = 5 to a clean var x : int state?
13:02:31FromDiscord<Rika> x = default(typeof(x))
13:02:33FromDiscord<Rika> Perhaps?
13:02:36FromDiscord<hmmm> jesus
13:02:38FromDiscord<hmmm> looks ugly
13:03:01FromDiscord<Rika> For all integers 0 is the default anyway
13:03:06FromDiscord<Rika> If you want to use that instead
13:03:13FromDiscord<hmmm> hmm okok
13:03:39Zevvor make a nice little template for the ugly solution, right
13:04:02Zevvreset(var) will do
13:04:30FromDiscord<Rika> Sure
13:04:59FromDiscord<Rika> I’d prefer using a proc for that though
13:05:45Zevvno, I mean, reset() is what you need. it's already there.
13:07:29FromDiscord<hmmm> when I get spaceX money I will employ a google sized force to fork nim to have synthax identical to python
13:08:04FromDiscord<Rika> It exists? Okay
13:08:08FromDiscord<Rika> I think I forgot about it
13:08:15FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @hmmm "when I get spaceX": Why?
13:08:32FromDiscord<Rika> There are reasons for some of them being missing
13:08:47FromDiscord<Rika> What are you missing from Python
13:09:03FromDiscord<hmmm> yea but the google sized force will make it work 1:1
13:09:17FromDiscord<Rika> Well why
13:09:39FromDiscord<Rika> At that point just use Python with another implementation
13:09:50FromDiscord<Rika> There are plenty
13:10:25FromDiscord<hmmm> because that's what I like lol
13:10:33FromDiscord<hmmm> I like nim and I like python synthax
13:10:35FromDiscord<Rika> Then use Python
13:10:38FromDiscord<hmmm> NU
13:11:01FromDiscord<Rika> A Python syntaxed Nim is not Nim like at all
13:11:07FromDiscord<Rika> It’s just Python
13:11:09FromDiscord<Rika> Think about it
13:11:31FromDiscord<hmmm> don't worry my google sized force will think about everything it will be glorious
13:11:50FromDiscord<hmmm> I'll worry about the funding by investing in exoteric bitcoins
13:11:55FromDiscord<Rika> No, it’s literally contradicting to be “Nim like” and have “Python syntax”
13:12:32FromDiscord<enthus1ast> nim syntax often is superior
13:12:38FromDiscord<enthus1ast> not always but often
13:13:27FromDiscord<enthus1ast> `os.path.join("foo" , "baa")` vs `"foo" / "baa"`
13:13:46FromDiscord<enthus1ast> always hate it when i must write python
13:13:48FromDiscord<Rika> Path lib in Python has /
13:13:54FromDiscord<enthus1ast> ok ;)
13:14:04FromDiscord<Rika> Path(“foo”) / “bar”
13:14:12FromDiscord<Rika> I think is how that works
13:14:19FromDiscord<Rika> But that’s not a limitation of syntax
13:15:56FromDiscord<enthus1ast> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FRP
13:17:48FromDiscord<hmmm> hmm I don't know, when I search for "how to do thingy on x on python" you mostly get stackoverflow solutions like : just call x.thingy. Nim has the same thing but you must search pretty hard, it has a different name that is less simple and you probably need to import a module. Also you need to check if the module you are importing is the right one or the abandoned one from 7years ago
13:18:27FromDiscord<hmmm> I guess the difference is half stack overflow presence, half simple names and half batteries included for a cool 150% sum in total
13:18:49FromDiscord<enthus1ast> sure you must be familiar with the docu and tools you use.
13:18:52FromDiscord<Rika> That is not syntax then
13:18:57FromDiscord<Rika> That is just library difference
13:19:40FromDiscord<Rika> You can always create your own standard library, I was planning to until I got hit by other plans
13:19:52FromDiscord<enthus1ast> python tk for me is like\: "is it TK or Tk or tkinter or Tkinter..."
13:20:19FromDiscord<hmmm> my google sized force will take care of the std/lib no prob rika
13:20:25FromDiscord<enthus1ast> then you copy paste stuff, then ohh no its not correct....
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13:21:20FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @hmmm "my google sized force": I personally would not like a Python like standard library though
13:21:23FromDiscord<enthus1ast> i often find it easier to just read nim code than to resort to pythons documentation
13:21:42FromDiscord<Rika> I honestly don’t like Python’s documentation
13:21:47FromDiscord<enthus1ast> me neither
13:22:03FromDiscord<Rika> Nor the cruft of its bloated “batteries included” library
13:22:23FromDiscord<Rika> Haha url lib
13:22:28FromDiscord<Rika> Very fun to deal with
13:23:56FromDiscord<evoalg> In reply to @hmmm "I guess the difference": why do you use Nim instead of Python? For speed?
13:24:23FromDiscord<enthus1ast> @evoalg\: because deep inside he knows that its the better lang ;)
13:25:05FromDiscord<hmmm> at the start I needed small exe, nim took care of it fast and easy
13:25:15FromDiscord<hmmm> then I stayed for the landscape I guess lol
13:25:16FromDiscord<Rika> I really wish somehow the “split the stdlib into a nimble package” plan pulled through
13:25:29FromDiscord<enthus1ast> small exe == malware?
13:25:31FromDiscord<hmmm> I don't need much tbh, I'm still learning lol
13:25:33FromDiscord<Rika> But I can see the massive headache that would be
13:25:51FromDiscord<hmmm> nunu exe like small utility for myself
13:25:59FromDiscord<Rika> No really Python can’t really be made into an executable
13:26:18FromDiscord<hmmm> I needed to shop it around and didn't want to shop a 50mb slo py bloat for a very simple utility
13:26:28FromDiscord<Rika> Yes
13:26:48FromDiscord<enthus1ast> i mean pyinstaller can create a dir, then just put the various exes in the dir -\> win
13:27:14FromDiscord<Rika> Yes but have you seen the sizes
13:27:15FromDiscord<hmmm> it was still cumbersome, Nim was easy to transition to
13:27:15FromDiscord<Rika> They’re massive
13:36:36FromDiscord<enthus1ast> i've written an vacation planner, exporter etc, with excel reader and tk gui in python, it has around 6mb
13:36:43FromDiscord<enthus1ast> not too bad
13:37:11FromDiscord<enthus1ast> the reason it is in python because back then we did not had a macos gui library
13:38:04FromDiscord<enthus1ast> and today i would still write it in python because we (still) have no cross platform gui (ok gtk, but gtk is terrible)
13:38:34FromDiscord<enthus1ast> and gtk would bloat it to much more then 6mb i guess
13:39:35FromDiscord<enthus1ast> BF2142Unlocker\_v0.9.6\_win.zip 15.1 mb
13:40:21FromDiscord<enthus1ast> most of this size ^ is gtk for windows
13:43:43FromDiscord<enthus1ast> so please if anyone (with time and leisure) PLEASE write a crossplatform gui!
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14:11:17FromDiscord<hmmm> lol we should just jump the shark and make nim godot usable. People are starting to write 2d gui on godot because it's often easier than using the gui behemots. I plan to try and convert some of my small gui apps in godot because why the hell not lol
14:19:53FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> In reply to @enthus1ast "so please if anyone": Something I've been wanting to do for a while. I actually spent a lot of time reworking flutter (removing dart and unnecessary cruft) and trying to turn it into a crossplatform gui library.
14:21:25FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> it's on the back burner tho
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14:23:20FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> In reply to @hmmm "lol we should just": Godot is actually pretty slow, which is why I'm avoiding it. ↵↵Unity as much as I hate to say it has a pretty good UI api.
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14:26:50FromDiscord<hmmm> still it's telling people are abusing 3D stuff just to avoid having to deal with QT / Gtk and the likes. No one likes to use that stuff
14:30:56FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> There's also dear imgui but.. sigh. it's immediate mode.
14:31:29FromDiscord<Yardanico> I think it's more suitable for standalone UIs than Godot though :D
14:31:36FromDiscord<Yardanico> and some people actually do use it as such
14:31:39FromDiscord<Yardanico> with transparent background
14:32:40FromDiscord<Yardanico> and for imgui inspiration you can always see the examples of imgui GUIs
14:32:43FromDiscord<Yardanico> the newest thread is https://github.com/ocornut/imgui/issues/4451
14:32:45FromDiscord<enthus1ast> imho the most sane gui currently is lazarus ....
14:32:56FromDiscord<Yardanico> did you get far with the nim lcl binding?
14:33:23FromDiscord<enthus1ast> yeah did the stuff i needed by hand
14:33:27FromDiscord<Yardanico> nice
14:33:31FromDiscord<Yardanico> lcl might be a very good choice for Nim
14:33:38FromDiscord<Yardanico> for small native UIs
14:33:45FromDiscord<enthus1ast> yes
14:37:44FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @Yardanico "the newest thread is": also it's really funny that game cheat developers show off their ImGUI layouts in these threads :)
14:38:26FromDiscord<enthus1ast> yeah imgui is nice and has alot of good widgets
14:38:37FromDiscord<enthus1ast> only stuff like copy paste etc must be done manually
14:38:56FromDiscord<enthus1ast> so there is still some hacky work todo
14:39:54FromDiscord<Yardanico> found some interesting projects from these threads, but that's for #offtopic
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14:56:33FromDiscord<Yardanico> On that note, initial Nim support (as in default templates and stuff) was merged to https://github.com/aduros/wasm4 !
14:56:38FromDiscord<Yardanico> I'll probably add it to TMWN
14:56:45FromDiscord<Yardanico> https://github.com/aduros/wasm4/pull/167
14:58:19PMunchHmm, I was waiting for whoever was wrapping Sciter with Futhark to put it in TMWN
14:58:34FromDiscord<Yardanico> aaaaaaaa
14:58:35PMunchWait, wasn't that you Yardanico?
14:58:48FromDiscord<Yardanico> 😿
14:58:54FromDiscord<Yardanico> yes yes i will try today
15:02:51FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @Yardanico "On that note, initial": 👏
15:03:16FromDiscord<dom96> We need a Nim MVP of the Month award 😄
15:06:59FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @PMunch "Hmm, I was waiting": do you have the gist with the options you used for sciter? i only have this saved - https://gist.github.com/Yardanico/45c4c588449b49b3bcf514c64460ee4c
15:07:06FromDiscord<Yardanico> but it fails because of uint16_t
15:07:20FromDiscord<Yardanico> ah right cushort
15:07:25FromDiscord<Yardanico> or not
15:11:49PMunchHmm, I don't think I used any compiler args for it
15:12:58PMunchBut I need to go now. I'll check on this chat in a little while though
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15:26:36FromDiscord<gdquest> In reply to @IsaacPaul "Godot is actually pretty": Did you have performance issues with Godot's UI?
15:26:58FromDiscord<gdquest> The Godot editor uses it, I've never had performance problems with that
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15:31:49FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/3FSS
15:32:20FromDiscord<gdquest> Okay so it's just things you've heard
15:32:25FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> yup
15:32:46FromDiscord<gdquest> Well the UI isn't slow at all. As I mentioned, Godot's editor is written in Godot, and it runs on cheap notebooks no problem
15:33:11FromDiscord<gdquest> The 3D engine's rendering performance has no relation with the performance of other areas - they kinda work in silos
15:34:14FromDiscord<gdquest> Now as to using Godot to make apps... we're doing it right now, it's good if you use Godot itself, but definitely not adapted to Nim or other external languages
15:34:26FromDiscord<gdquest> I mean it works with the native bindings tech, and you get near C++ performance
15:34:52FromDiscord<gdquest> But it's not designed as a UI toolkit
15:34:57FromDiscord<gdquest> Note Tesla uses Godot UI in their cars
15:35:09FromDiscord<gdquest> Their android app and dashboard is made in Godot
15:35:14FromDiscord<gdquest> (edit) "in" => "with"
15:35:24FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> In reply to @gdquest "Now as to using": Very interesting.. so is the UI built on top of the 2d engine? or is that separate
15:36:02FromDiscord<gdquest> It's on the 2D engine, which is quite optimized by now - there's ongoing work happening on performance in all areas of the engine actually
15:36:33FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> well that's good.
15:37:21FromDiscord<gdquest> But if you look at the source code basically the UI has its own logic code but calls into the RenderingServer for all drawing.
15:37:34FromDiscord<gdquest> Which does it all through the 2D renderer.
15:37:51FromDiscord<gdquest> This means you can strip Godot's physics engine, 3d, audio, and everything else to use just the GUI part
15:38:41FromDiscord<gdquest> This guy is making a Digital Audio Workstation this way - using Godot just for the GUI <https://twitter.com/colugomusic>
15:38:42FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> I'll have to check out godot again.. though the last time I did.. I saw that an http request was a 'node' on the scene and that.. was just weird.
15:39:10FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> I guess the scene is the context/controller
15:39:11FromDiscord<gdquest> In reply to @IsaacPaul "I'll have to check": I don't think it's ever been that way. It's just people use nodes a lot to attach code to their scene.
15:39:42FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> It's really designed at beginners and that scares me away xD
15:39:45FromDiscord<gdquest> You'll always have one viewport node created by the engine, but that aside nodes are optional
15:41:31FromDiscord<hmmm> gdquest have you tried the godot nim bindings yet?
15:41:54FromDiscord<hmmm> I'm curious if it works or it's too much of a hassle
15:42:06FromDiscord<gdquest> No, but I know someone who did and they worked fine for them
15:42:33FromDiscord<gdquest> Right now using GDNative - the base tech for all those external language bindings - is a little tedious to set up
15:42:55FromDiscord<gdquest> Well it's just you have to download and compile the right GDNative headers (C++) to get started
15:43:07FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @hmmm "gdquest have you tried": there has been at 3 commercial games made in godot with nim
15:43:11FromDiscord<Yardanico> two mobile, one steam
15:43:20FromDiscord<Yardanico> there are probably more that we don't know about :)
15:43:35FromDiscord<gdquest> The bindings seem reliable at least yeah that's what this colleague told me
15:43:40FromDiscord<Yardanico> https://frayhem.com/en/↵https://summonage.com/en/↵https://store.steampowered.com/app/1444480/Turing_Complete/
15:44:37FromDiscord<hmmm> nice, I need to try them
15:47:11FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> I would love to look through an example nim/godot project if anyone finds one lol
15:47:37FromDiscord<hmmm> yea! we need to see the good stuff
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16:03:38FromDiscord<lenis> In reply to @gdquest "Note Tesla uses Godot": Really? thats cool
16:03:55FromDiscord<lenis> I thought that using Godot for UI development was more of a gimmick
16:04:26nrds<Prestige99> hm I would assume the same, really
16:04:51FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @lenis "Really? thats cool": they had a job offering for a godot developer for UI
16:04:58FromDiscord<Yardanico> it's no longer up though
16:05:19FromDiscord<Yardanico> http://web.archive.org/web/20210828105259/https://www.tesla.com/careers/search/job/software-engineerenergymobilewebui-72387
16:05:27FromDiscord<gdquest> We know that Tesla and Google use Godot
16:05:30nrds<Prestige99> Maybe they'll ship games inside their cars :P
16:05:36FromDiscord<Yardanico> they already do :)
16:05:50FromDiscord<gdquest> Tesla for sure in their car apps for UI and UI animation, people found Godot data files in there
16:05:51*robertmeta quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
16:06:01FromDiscord<gdquest> Google uses it for unreleased internal projects
16:06:03FromDiscord<Yardanico> @Prestige https://www.motortrend.com/features/tesla-arcade-video-gaming-review-model-s-plaid/
16:06:38nrds<Prestige99> Well, it only makes sense I guess haha
16:06:52FromDiscord<gdquest> In reply to @lenis "I thought that using": It's really cool, you have programs made with Godot like MaterialMaker (procedural material and texture creation like Substance designer), Pixelorama (pixel art program) and some others
16:07:03FromDiscord<lenis> are there good docs on how to use godot for UI?
16:07:08FromDiscord<gdquest> Godot's editor is made with the Godot UI framework
16:07:18FromDiscord<gdquest> Actually Godot is a Godot game technically
16:08:04FromDiscord<gdquest> In reply to @lenis "are there good docs": The class reference is good but the docs and usability not as good as some more popular alternatives. It's getting better, and we hired a UX designer/dev to improve the usability already
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16:08:34FromDiscord<lenis> thats good to hear
16:08:45FromDiscord<gdquest> You can get by - we certainly do - but I think with Godot 4 the experience will be much smoother
16:09:21FromDiscord<gdquest> We're waiting on the redesign to make some free resources and likely a paid companion course dedicated to UI
16:09:27nrds<Prestige99> I'll probably do some nim/godot things after 4 comes out
16:09:31FromDiscord<gdquest> (edit) "redesign" => "usability improvements"
16:09:52FromDiscord<gdquest> Yeah Godot 4 even for us long term users brings so many improvements we're all waiting for it
16:10:01FromDiscord<lenis> Godot 4 sure it taking its time
16:10:26FromDiscord<gdquest> It's the scope is insane. Also devs backport many features to Godot 3 so we're still getting major updates
16:10:36nrds<Prestige99> I'd rather have the devs take their time
16:10:38FromDiscord<gdquest> It's a complete rewrite of a 10 year-old engine
16:11:01FromDiscord<gdquest> Making almost everything modern, bringing multithreading and perf improvements to many areas
16:11:38FromDiscord<no name fits> So I'm working with Vulkan which means I have a cstringArray. How do I push to a cstringArray exactly?
16:11:42FromDiscord<lenis> I tried using godot at one point. but i found that in many areas its just lacking. such as terrain editing, big scenes, working with shaders↵↵And it had a cool window for generating patch files for game data, but the code for it was never implemented
16:12:11FromDiscord<enthus1ast> then maybe my reported my 2d physic engine bug will be fixed \:)
16:12:13FromDiscord<gdquest> Yeah terrain editing is still not coming either. At least not yet.
16:12:15FromDiscord<enthus1ast> after 5+ years \:D
16:12:40FromDiscord<gdquest> You'd have to check if it's still relevant, as so much changed already
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16:13:45FromDiscord<no name fits> I can only find how to convert cstringArray to seq in the docs, but I just need to push one more cstring to the array
16:13:57FromDiscord<lenis> well if Godot becomes easily compatible with Nim ill give it another shot haha
16:14:05FromDiscord<lenis> I think i actually still have one of your courses for Godot 😛
16:14:49FromDiscord<gdquest> Ah! Thanks 🙂
17:14:39FromDiscord<b1tt> Nim is amazing
17:15:35Amun-Rayes it is
17:16:53FromDiscord<hmmm> I just found the hard way I cannot name a proc mod
17:16:58FromDiscord<hmmm> 🧐
17:17:45FromDiscord<hmmm> why compiler sama can't just say "hey dude that is already reserved, stop using stupid names"
17:18:07FromDiscord<hmmm> instead of Error: identifier expected, but got 'keyword mod'
17:18:18Amun-Rahmm: you can, proc `mod`(): discard
17:18:35Amun-Ranot that would be a good idea
17:18:35FromDiscord<hmmm> whot
17:19:02FromDiscord<hmmm> try proc mod(a : int) =
17:19:11Amun-Rayou can extend what "mod" operates on by escaping the name with ``
17:19:51FromDiscord<hmmm> lol I just want to avoid all the hassle regarding mod, I didn't know there was already a mod in existance
17:20:22FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @hmmm "whot": he used backticks for stropping
17:20:24FromDiscord<hmmm> from now it will be modx, mody and the likes
17:20:27FromDiscord<Yardanico> in discord those are used for monospace font
17:20:31FromDiscord<Yardanico> so you didn't see the backticks
17:20:43FromDiscord<hmmm> ah ok
17:20:43FromDiscord<Yardanico> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FTu
17:20:45Amun-Rahmm: https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FTt (but that's bad as overloading in C++)
17:20:56FromDiscord<hmmm> nono backticks for me thanks I'm already confused enough
17:22:26Amun-Rawhat if I escape backticks: \`mod\`
17:24:08FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> yea then you can see it
17:24:18Amun-Rahmm
17:25:24FromDiscord<@droptweetrxd_twitter-5a0487c2d7> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/VJF
17:26:25FromDiscord<@droptweetrxd_twitter-5a0487c2d7> I'm using Ubuntu with WSL on Windows. Nim 1.6.0 with nimble v0.13.1 compiled at 2021-10-19 01\:07\:39
17:27:53FromDiscord<hmmm> hey dude are you really named @droptweetrxd_twitter-5a0487c2d7?
17:28:39*Raflemakt quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
17:29:32FromDiscord<@droptweetrxd_twitter-5a0487c2d7> versus a nicer name? I authenticated using my twitter login and that's the name I was given???
17:30:00FromDiscord<hmmm> I see 🧐
17:30:14FromDiscord<@droptweetrxd_twitter-5a0487c2d7> apologies. new to gitter
17:30:24FromDiscord<hmmm> np 😋
17:30:40FromDiscord<Rika> ah gitter
17:32:04FromDiscord<@droptweetrxd_twitter-5a0487c2d7> Do you have any guesses as to what I did incorrectly to result in the error message?
17:32:11FromDiscord<Rika> nothing
17:33:41FromDiscord<@droptweetrxd_twitter-5a0487c2d7> weird. switching to devel lets me install properly, but stable doesn't
17:37:22FromDiscord<Rika> i installed it on stable successfully
17:45:51FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FTL
17:46:43Amun-RaYardanico: btw, I ended up implementing my own stream object
18:02:53*PMunch joined #nim
18:14:05FromDiscord<pmunch> Well that pretty much is what it's saying, just in a bit nicer way \:P↵(@hmmm)
18:17:03FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @IsaacPaul "if you remove all": https://github.com/nim-lang/nimble/issues/945
18:17:15FromDiscord<dom96> Best guess: the new Nimble is causing you problems.
18:17:24FromDiscord<dom96> but I dunno how you'd get it with 1.6.0
18:17:46FromDiscord<dom96> you can try `nimble refresh` as well
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18:17:53FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> @droptweetrxd_twitter-5a0487c2d7↵^
18:19:11FromDiscord<Rika> he said it was on 0.13.1 though
18:19:58FromDiscord<dom96> there was a period of time when the new Nimble had that version number :/
18:21:47FromDiscord<pmunch> 0.13.1? That's ancient!
18:24:02*PMunch quit (Quit: leaving)
18:24:26FromDiscord<dom96> that's the latest release lol
18:26:52FromDiscord<Rika> nimble, not nim
18:27:04FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @dom96 "there was a period": aw fuk
18:39:11FromDiscord<pmunch> Ah right 😋
18:50:10FromDiscord<codic> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FU6
18:50:21FromDiscord<codic> https://www.toptal.com/developers/hastebin/ekoyicukup.rb wtf are these c errors?
18:50:52FromDiscord<codic> it looks like it is having trouble compiling `x = none y`
18:51:06FromDiscord<codic> where x: Option[y]
18:54:23FromDiscord<Rika> needs more context
18:54:27FromDiscord<Rika> code sample perhaps?
19:02:36*Raflemakt left #nim (#nim)
19:03:00FromDiscord<codic> sure
19:03:14FromDiscord<codic> 1s
19:03:54FromDiscord<codic> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/0Zo
19:04:21FromDiscord<codic> https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/11228 according to this you get this C error when the types are different, but in this case it's uint on both sides
19:07:34FromDiscord<codic> also:↵before I was using Nim 1.4.8 @ Void, was working fine↵then I distrohopped to Debian Sid and got Nim 1.6.0, working fine↵then again to Artix, and got Nim 1.4.8, not working fine
19:07:38FromDiscord<codic> I don't see why
19:09:37FromDiscord<Rika> Maybe force a recompile
19:09:48FromDiscord<Rika> -f in the compile command I assume
19:10:28FromDiscord<hmmm> In reply to @pmunch "Well that pretty much": I want a compiler flag just for me -d:stupid. It will be very explicit for the easy errors (You forgot the = at the end of proc declaration you idiot, it is now the <counter>th time) and very cryptic for general type errors "Dude some thingy error happened at line 298. Fix that line. I spare you the 2000 lines of details you wouldn't get anyway"
19:13:41FromDiscord<codic> I'm using Nimble, but no, that doesn't seem to do anything
19:13:48FromDiscord<codic> Nor does creating a new project & copying over the code
19:13:57FromDiscord<codic> or removing ~/.cache/nim
19:21:09FromDiscord<codic> oh it works with 1.6.0 with choosenim
19:21:11FromDiscord<codic> weird.....
19:21:15FromDiscord<codic> what broke??
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19:50:58nixfreaknim[m]trying to load a sample rss feed like so: let feed = loadRSS("http://data.xssed.org/news.rss")
19:51:06nixfreaknim[m]and read pubDate
19:51:21nixfreaknim[m]echo feed.pubDate
19:51:49nixfreaknim[m]https://github.com/achesak/nim-rss/blob/master/src/rss.nim
19:54:16nixfreaknim[m]Keep getting error Users/.choosenim/toolchains/nim-#version-1-6/lib/system/io.nim(853) readFile
19:54:16nixfreaknim[m]Error: unhandled exception: cannot open: http://data.xssed.org/news.rss [IOError]
19:54:16nixfreaknim[m]Error: execution of an external program failed: '/Users/tmp/read_rss '
19:55:27FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> `getRSS`
19:55:38FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> `load` is from local `getRss` is remote
20:02:41nixfreaknim[m]so getRSS("http://data.xssed.org/news.rss")
20:03:24nixfreaknim[m]let x = getRSS("http://data.xssed.org/news.rss")
20:03:24FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> yep
20:03:51nixfreaknim[m]echo x.pubDate ?
20:04:46FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Should be
20:06:25nixfreaknim[m]yeah not getting anything back from it
20:06:28nixfreaknim[m]just blank
20:07:09FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> well there is no pub date for the parent node
20:07:47FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FUz
20:08:25nixfreaknim[m]oh because its under item node
20:10:11nixfreaknim[m]<channel>... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/f36fca0fd409eeff9aeeb2a4509963184893c218)
20:10:41FromDiscord<hmmm> is there a sane way of assigning the string of a proc name to a var?
20:11:20FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> What?
20:11:41FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You want to take a string input and get the proc of that name?
20:11:44FromDiscord<hmmm> I have a proc named thingy I want var x = "thingy"
20:12:16FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> well you can with a bit more mechanisms
20:12:25FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Are these procs all the same types?
20:12:34FromDiscord<hmmm> hmm
20:13:09FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> If not there isnt really a way to do this neatly
20:13:18FromDiscord<hmmm> they take and return different types if that's what you are asking
20:13:40FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> So they have different signatures, are they all unique or do the fall under a specific set of procedures?
20:14:03FromDiscord<hmmm> 👀
20:14:09FromDiscord<hmmm> can I have a reserve question
20:14:41FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Elaboration is all i need to be able to provide a solution
20:14:51FromDiscord<hmmm> hmm
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20:16:48FromDiscord<hmmm> even google seem puzzled by my request
20:16:56FromDiscord<hmmm> thought it was something normal
20:17:34FromDiscord<hmmm> isn't there a function somewhere that gets out all of the symbols?
20:17:55FromDiscord<hmmm> woa
20:17:56FromDiscord<enthus1ast> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FUB
20:18:07FromDiscord<enthus1ast> but might not work in any case
20:18:18FromDiscord<hmmm> lemme try a quick copy paste then I will try to understand what is doin
20:18:34FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Tis is just taking in a symbol and returning the ast of it
20:18:45FromDiscord<enthus1ast> what do you try to do this?
20:18:47FromDiscord<enthus1ast> why
20:19:15FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> ... uh but _why_ do you need the name of procs? what are you trying to do. I have a feeling there maybe a better solution to your problem because you're essentially asking for some sort reflection for procs.
20:19:21FromDiscord<hmmm> yea it is what I want
20:19:29FromDiscord<hmmm> but there is too magic I don't get in there
20:19:36FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/SMB
20:19:38FromDiscord<hmmm> jeesus
20:19:58FromDiscord<enthus1ast> > ↵> The less silly version of the above↵> \:(↵>
20:20:06FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> lol
20:20:20FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well what you're wanting isnt overly needed, getting procs by name like this is only available at CT
20:20:32FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Sorry enthus it's just the truth 😛
20:21:29FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Either way we probably should've done `obj: typed{proc}` and `p: proc{proc}` respectively
20:22:03nixfreaknim[m]So can I access the item node.pubDate ?
20:22:14FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> But yea hmmm elaborate what you're doing instead of making us guess, my assumption is you want to have strings change a proc call
20:22:25FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> https://github.com/achesak/nim-rss/blob/master/src/rss.nim#L18-L39
20:24:19FromDiscord<hmmm> hmm I was just trying to spare me some typing, I have to refactor my weekend project with proper names and I have procs and later strings that refer to them and I was thinking it would be neat to tie the strings to the proc so if later I change the proc names again I don't need to change the strings
20:25:03FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Why do the proc names matter in relation to strings
20:25:49FromDiscord<hmmm> well the strings are just terminal output that say: hey we now "push" things and there is indeed a push proc
20:26:07FromDiscord<hmmm> or something like that lol the more I write about it the more I get confuus'd
20:26:11FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Ok here we go
20:26:20FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Here we go you want keys -\> procs
20:26:27FromDiscord<hmmm> yea?
20:26:31FromDiscord<hmmm> YEA I WANT THAT
20:26:52FromDiscord<hmmm> how do I activate this magic protocol
20:26:53FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> So what do the procs signatures look like `proc doStuff(args: openarray[string])`?
20:27:19FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well we first need to see what your requirement is
20:28:07FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You need to think about "what procs are needed"
20:29:46FromDiscord<hmmm> they are mostly normal simple procs like proc push(x :int) =
20:30:28FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You really need to learn how to elaborate
20:30:35FromDiscord<hmmm> yea!
20:30:41FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Is this code posted anywhere?
20:30:53FromDiscord<hmmm> well my vocabulary is limited by my rudimentary cs skills lol
20:31:12FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I'm legitmately just asking "What are your current procedure signatures, give me all of them!"
20:31:55FromDiscord<hmmm> oh
20:31:59FromDiscord<hmmm> that is simple
20:33:13FromDiscord<hmmm> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FUI
20:33:19FromDiscord<hmmm> 😅
20:33:43nixfreaknim[m]ok so pubDate is an RSSItems object and that is a seq
20:34:16nixfreaknim[m]so echo feed.items["pubDate"]
20:34:25nixfreaknim[m]but doesn't work
20:37:21FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Ok so they have the same signatures
20:39:47nixfreaknim[m]cho feed.items[2]
20:39:47nixfreaknim[m](title: "Happy New Year 2012!", link: "http://www.xssed.com/news/129/Happy_New_Year_2012/", description: "Wishing you a very healthy, happy and prosperous new year!", author: "", category: @[], comments: "", enclosure: (url: "", length: "", enclosureType: ""), guid: "", pubDate: "Sun, 01 Jan 2012 19:19:09 +0100", sourceUrl: "", sourceText: "")
20:40:34nixfreaknim[m]How can I just parse out just a specific child ?
20:40:37FromDiscord<hmmm> well my initial thought was: there should exist something like var x = $name[push()], but looking at the examples maybe it's not that easy nor needed so probably people do it in a much simpler way
20:40:55FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Items is a seq
20:41:04FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> so you need to get the element you want and access the `.pubdate`
20:42:46FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FUK
20:43:13FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's a `seq` nix so you can just do `yourRssData.items[yourInterestedIndex]`
20:43:31FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I think i provided something that should work for you hmmm
20:44:34nixfreaknim[m]yep I did a typeof on it
20:44:50FromDiscord<hmmm> oh 😅 I think I recognize std/tables in there. The rest I will need to take time study it
20:45:33FromDiscord<hmmm> ty beefy sorry for the long winded request :nim1: I'll get to you when / if I get what it does lol
20:46:44FromDiscord<gibson> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FUM
20:46:55FromDiscord<gibson> (edit)
20:51:03FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Seems it's a bug with how parameters are evaluated before tuple accessors are expanded
20:52:31FromDiscord<firasuke> Hey there
20:53:18FromDiscord<firasuke> I'm very impressed with Nim, especially with how easy it is to bootstrap, and it not having a dependency on LLVM is a big plus imho
20:55:26FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Actually this is just an array issue, it sems without reference to generics on declaration
20:56:31FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FUR
20:56:49FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's silly but the `template` is delayed untill the instantiation of the generic
20:56:54FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Hello fira
20:57:08FromDiscord<firasuke> Yo
20:57:46FromDiscord<gibson> @ElegantBeef Ah, right, template resolution is later. Thanks - that's the "not a bug" insight I was looking for! This is the kind of advanced nim that trips me up.
20:57:59FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well i'd say it's a bug
20:58:16FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> But it's just due to the array semming at declaration instead of instantiation
20:58:27nixfreaknim[m]How would I break this down even further cho feed.items[0..<1]
20:58:27nixfreaknim[m]@[(title: "Another Ebay permanent XSS", link: "http://www.xssed.com/news/131/Another_Ebay_permanent_XSS/", description: "The Indian security researcher&nbsp;Shubham Upadhyay aka Cyb3R_Shubh4M, sent us a new permanent XSS affecting the products listings on Ebay.com", author: "", category: @[], comments: "", enclosure: (url: "", length: "", enclosureType: ""), guid: "", pubDate: "Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:25:59 +0100", sourceUrl: "", sourceText:
20:58:27nixfreaknim[m]"")]
20:58:51FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I mean what are you after?
20:58:59nixfreaknim[m]pubDate
20:59:07FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> `.pubDate`
20:59:27FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> `echo feed.items[0].pubDate`
20:59:40FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's just a sequence of `RSSItems`
21:00:07nixfreaknim[m]damn I thought I tried that already
21:00:16nixfreaknim[m]thank you
21:00:57FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I will say gibson it's a sucky bug but alteast the work around isnt too ergonomically ugly
21:01:39FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I do wonder if it's as simple as not semming arrays 😀
21:01:54FromDiscord<gibson> Yeah, true! What is "semming"? Is that the semantic pass or something? I've never heard that before.
21:02:16FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> yep
21:02:29FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Semantic analysis
21:02:33FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I toy with the compiler a bit, so i play pretend compiler dev
21:03:06FromDiscord<gibson> :p
21:03:45FromDiscord<firasuke> Is koch still used to bootstrap Nim?
21:03:52FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yes
21:04:19FromDiscord<firasuke> Nice, I've read the bootstrap script and it's very straightforward
21:04:34FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I like that even i havent done that 😛
21:04:39FromDiscord<firasuke> I wonder how compatible Nim is with a gcc/musl toolchain
21:05:00FromDiscord<firasuke> In reply to @Elegantbeef "I like that even": Yeah well, I'd rather do that than bootstrap LLVM 😂
21:05:13FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Gcc is the default compiler, and some people have compiled with musl
21:05:21FromDiscord<firasuke> In reply to @Elegantbeef "Gcc is the default": Epic news
21:05:55FromDiscord<firasuke> I'm actually working on a linux distribution built from scratch that's based on musl libc and toybox
21:06:20FromDiscord<firasuke> I actually wrote the package manager in shell, then I switched to Rust.
21:06:44FromDiscord<firasuke> Well bootstrapping Rust isn't the prettiest thing lol
21:06:55FromDiscord<firasuke> so I'm thinking of at least trying Nim and see how it goes
21:06:56FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's fine if you have 10 hours 😛
21:07:13FromDiscord<firasuke> In reply to @Elegantbeef "It's fine if you": for bootstrapping Nim or Rust lol
21:07:19FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Rust
21:07:23FromDiscord<firasuke> makes sense xD
21:07:39FromDiscord<firasuke> This is the toolchain I'm using
21:07:42FromDiscord<firasuke> https://github.com/firasuke/mussel
21:07:49FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Though i guess if you were to build the compiler from scratch it'd take some time to bootstrap aswell
21:07:55FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> The C compiler that is
21:09:18FromDiscord<firasuke> hmm can you link the latest/newest documentation for bootstrapping Rust
21:09:29FromDiscord<firasuke> the one I have says that the repo is archived or something
21:10:22FromDiscord<firasuke> (edit) "Rust" => "Nim"
21:10:31FromDiscord<firasuke> In reply to @firasuke "hmm can you link": Nim lol
21:11:13FromDiscord<firasuke> In reply to @Elegantbeef "Though i guess if": You mean Nim's compiler? can we estimate build times in comparison to gcc? equal or less?
21:12:13FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @firasuke "You mean Nim's compiler?": Nim takes much less to compile than GCC or other C compilers of course, the main reason being that Nim complies to C itself (by default)
21:12:24FromDiscord<Yardanico> So it reuses existing stuff
21:12:47FromDiscord<firasuke> Awesome
21:12:50FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nim's compiler takes like 2 minutes on my xeon1231v3 to compile
21:13:01FromDiscord<firasuke> Superb
21:13:02FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @firasuke "hmm can you link": Check https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/build_all.sh and https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/ci/funs.sh
21:13:13FromDiscord<firasuke> Awesome, thanks
21:13:14FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> But i was saying if you were going to compile the entire C and Nim compiler it'd take longer
21:13:50FromDiscord<firasuke> In reply to @Elegantbeef "But i was saying": Yes for sure, my custom toolchain requires 18 to 20 minute to build a musl/gcc cross-compilation toolchain using a single-pass build for GCC
21:13:58FromDiscord<firasuke> so it's very much acceptable
21:14:20FromDiscord<firasuke> So Nim taking a couple of minutes is most certainly nothing
21:14:48FromDiscord<Yardanico> It's basically compiling Nim compiler out of precompiled C sources (the csources_v1), and then the actual bootstrapping happens with koch - it builds the compiler a few times and compares the binaries to ensure that the bootstrapping is working
21:15:37FromDiscord<firasuke> In reply to @Yardanico "It's basically compiling Nim": kinda like GCC bootstrap options, and how it can build itself 3 times or so each time with the resulting compiler and apply some optimizations on the resulting build of itself like LTO and the like, understandable
21:15:50FromDiscord<firasuke> all in all it's still so much less than cloning LLVM's tree and bootstrapping it lol
21:17:16FromDiscord<jfmonty2> Is there a way to pass a code block to a macro in a single line? Obviously you can with expressions, like a proc call or a boolean compare or whatever, but I can't get it to work for e.g. `mymacro(let x = 3)` or `mymacro: let x = 3`
21:19:41FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FUX
21:19:54FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> or `myMacro((let x = 3))`
21:20:14FromDiscord<firasuke> @Yardanico what about this?↵https://github.com/nim-lang/csources/blob/master/build.sh
21:20:44FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @firasuke "<@!177365113899057152> what about this?": This is the old csources repo
21:20:50FromDiscord<Yardanico> Check csources_v1 one
21:21:09FromDiscord<firasuke> oh, is that a branch or another repo?
21:21:16FromDiscord<Yardanico> Another repo
21:21:29FromDiscord<jfmonty2> @ElegantBeef thanks! didn't know that wrapping in parens would have that effect
21:21:52FromDiscord<Yardanico> And also, this is just for the initial bootstrapping, even with csources_v1 it bootstraps Nim 1.0 which is then used to compile the newest compiler (Nim 1.6 at the moment if you checkout a stable branch)
21:22:10FromDiscord<firasuke> Epic
21:22:14FromDiscord<firasuke> I love how Nim is LLVM-free lol
21:22:17FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yea you can abuse `()` for manything it lets you right many programs single lined
21:22:37FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Dont say that too loudly some dislike that it's not using llvm 😛
21:22:45FromDiscord<firasuke> Will their be a gcc frontend for nim?
21:22:57FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @jfmonty2 "<@!145405730571288577> thanks! didn't know": This feature is called "statement list expression" btw
21:23:01FromDiscord<Yardanico> You can find it in the manual
21:23:02FromDiscord<firasuke> (edit) "gcc" => "Nim" | "nim?" => "GCC?"
21:23:31FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> write many programs\ jeez where is rika to bitch and moan at my spelling
21:23:34FromDiscord<jfmonty2> thanks, I was looking in the docs but I couldn't find a full list of AST node types with explanations anywhere
21:24:19FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> https://nim-lang.org/docs/macros.html#the-ast-in-nim explains them a bit, but i generally just write what i want in a `dumpTree` block and use that
21:24:26FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @firasuke "Will their be a": Don't think so, currently C backend is pretty stable and allows for painless C interop
21:24:34FromDiscord<Sevos> hello y'all
21:24:41FromDiscord<Yardanico> Nim also has C++, Objective C and JS backends
21:24:41FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Hello
21:24:48FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> So many new people
21:24:51FromDiscord<firasuke> In reply to @Yardanico "Don't think so, currently": which is perfect, just inquiring, thanks
21:25:15FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> There is also the `nlvm` compiler which as the name implies uses `llvm`
21:25:16FromDiscord<jfmonty2> dumpTree works if you have syntax and you want the node names, but my issue was I didn't know what syntax would produce the effect I was looking for
21:25:29FromDiscord<Sevos> so Nim combines the ease of Python with the efficiency of C/Rust?
21:25:36FromDiscord<Sevos> i discovered this language just now
21:25:42FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yea that's just the case of "learn the AST" 😀
21:25:53FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's fast with an expressive syntax
21:26:04FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> So if that's how you describe that, then yess
21:26:20FromDiscord<Sevos> by expressive you mean you don't have to code a lot of extra stuff in order to achieve something?
21:26:27FromDiscord<jfmonty2> I wouldn't say Nim is _quite_ as easy as python, coming from python myself, although it's certainly much easier than other compiled/static typed languages I've tried
21:26:31FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Easy to read and write
21:26:52FromDiscord<Sevos> > Support for various backends: it compiles to C, C++ or JavaScript so that Nim can be used for all backend and frontend needs.↵interesting - how does that work?
21:27:15FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> The compiler takes the code and outputs files that work with the given backends
21:27:16FromDiscord<Sevos> it "rewrites" the entire code to something C/C++/JS-like?
21:27:28FromDiscord<Sevos> nice lol
21:27:34FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @Sevos "it "rewrites" the entire": Yeah, although since it's a compiler the term is "compiles" :)
21:27:34FromDiscord<Sevos> didn't even know that's possible
21:27:43FromDiscord<firasuke> In reply to @jfmonty2 "I wouldn't say Nim": It certainly is easier than Rust, C and C++ for example.
21:27:43FromDiscord<Yardanico> It doesn't use advanced features of C++ or JS
21:27:46FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> there are multiple stages to the compiler, Lexer/Parser -\> Semantic Analysis -\> code generation
21:27:50FromDiscord<Yardanico> It just treats them as simple backends
21:28:10FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> code generation is a sort of pluggable system where you get the AST and emit the files required for the language
21:28:11FromDiscord<jfmonty2> In reply to @firasuke "It certainly is easier": Rust is exactly what I was thinking of. I love the idea of the language but boy is it a pain to get started in
21:28:39FromDiscord<firasuke> In reply to @jfmonty2 "Rust is exactly what": Same, I won't stop using Rust, but having Nim as an asset is super powerful as well.
21:28:55FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> AST being the abstract syntax tree, which is just the code as reasoned/parsed data
21:29:17FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> In reply to @jfmonty2 "I wouldn't say Nim": i started coding in python and had a hard time switching to other langs because everything was a magic box for me that just worked, im glad i went to a lower level, it made things easier to understand
21:29:30FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> When notnil and views become stable there will be no reason to use Rust! 😛
21:29:42FromDiscord<jfmonty2> Agreed, just figuring out the stack/heap distinction was a huge jump in my understanding as well (which is not a distinction that you can really make in pythong)
21:29:44FromDiscord<jfmonty2> (edit) "pythong)" => "python)"
21:30:25FromDiscord<Sevos> @ElegantBeef you're the creator of this language? asking because you're "a bot"
21:30:33FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I came from C# and picking up Nim helped a lot with fundamentals and increased my code quality
21:30:37FromDiscord<Sevos> i assume you did this in order to effectively avoid DM's / friend invites etc?
21:30:46FromDiscord<Sevos> In reply to @Elegantbeef "I came from C#": OK, that answered my question ahaha
21:30:48FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> He is an advanced AI programmed in nim
21:30:49FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nah i've contributed a bit, but i'm just on matrix
21:30:54FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> exactly
21:30:56FromDiscord<jfmonty2> ah matrix, I was wondering which bridge it is
21:31:07FromDiscord<jfmonty2> Do you run your own bridge? Is that how you have a distinct user?
21:31:19FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @jfmonty2 "Do you run your": No, these are discord webhooks
21:31:21FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nah the matrix bridge is just smart
21:31:26FromDiscord<jfmonty2> huh nice
21:31:29FromDiscord<jfmonty2> Didn't realize it had come that far
21:31:42FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> The Discord -\> matrix side even shows discord users typing
21:31:47FromDiscord<Yardanico> For matrix we use t2bot.io
21:31:51FromDiscord<jfmonty2> I have a matrix homeserver but rarely use it because I'm too lazy to set up all the bridges to make it useful 😛
21:31:55FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Some nice QoL features with it
21:32:00FromDiscord<Yardanico> For IRC it's my own bridge :P
21:32:12FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @Elegantbeef "Some nice QoL features": Sadly no proper discord pings or edit support :(
21:32:17FromDiscord<Sevos> funny that i'm in here
21:32:18FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> cmon monty use matrix, it's cooler! 😛
21:32:20FromDiscord<Sevos> i have never programmed in my life
21:32:23FromDiscord<Sevos> cuz me too dumb for that 😛
21:32:31FromDiscord<jfmonty2> always time to learn!
21:32:35FromDiscord<Sevos> nah, i'm dumb
21:32:39FromDiscord<Sevos> i even suck at maths
21:32:44FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> So what
21:32:50FromDiscord<Sevos> but hey!
21:32:52FromDiscord<jfmonty2> don't need maths, all the hard problems have been solved already by other people
21:32:53FromDiscord<Sevos> i can print hello world
21:33:01FromDiscord<jfmonty2> You can have a lot of fun (and do a lot of useful stuff) just wiring together other people's code
21:33:03FromDiscord<Sevos> 😎
21:33:03FromDiscord<Sevos> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=E4Z
21:33:09FromDiscord<jfmonty2> tbh that's ~90% of programming nowadays
21:33:14FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Not how we do it here, going to get a f-
21:33:31FromDiscord<Sevos> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=1X8p
21:33:33FromDiscord<Sevos> happier now? :uwu:
21:33:49FromDiscord<Sevos> In reply to @jfmonty2 "tbh that's ~90% of": lmao
21:34:07FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> How dare you imply that all i've done is glue code together... Quickly deletes my game framework that glues opengl/sdl/assimp together
21:34:25FromDiscord<jfmonty2> 👀
21:34:33FromDiscord<jfmonty2> hey I'm not throwing shade, I work in devops primarily
21:34:38FromDiscord<jfmonty2> basically the definition of gluing stuff together
21:35:30FromDiscord<Sevos> actually guys
21:35:43FromDiscord<Sevos> due to tomorrow i have to memorize 10 formulas
21:35:48FromDiscord<Sevos> any tips how to learn it quickly?
21:35:57FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Tomorrow is a bad day
21:36:03FromDiscord<Sevos> i agree
21:36:44FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> -b (+ or -) radical b squared - 4ac all divided by 2a
21:36:50FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> just remember that in sing-song format
21:37:12FromDiscord<Sevos> xd
21:37:16FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> then you have the quadratic formula
21:37:17FromDiscord<Sevos> it's not maths but thanks Isaac ❤️
21:37:26FromDiscord<Sevos> from now on you're my bestie
21:37:27FromDiscord<Sevos> i'm gonna stalk you
21:37:42FromDiscord<Sevos> friend invite sent. i'll harrass you as much as possible 😎
21:38:51FromDiscord<Yardanico> I hate to be that guy but we have #offtopic :)
21:38:51FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Eh monty has moved to the matrix!
21:39:11FromDiscord<jfmonty2> still syncing history but we'll see
21:39:43FromDiscord<jfmonty2> Once threading support finishes landing in Matrix I might take another stab at moving to it more fully
21:39:59FromDiscord<Sevos> he rejecteed me 😦
21:40:16FromDiscord<Sevos> In reply to @Yardanico "I hate to be": sure
21:41:22FromDiscord<Sevos> In reply to @Elegantbeef "there are multiple stages": does that work the other way around?
21:41:30FromDiscord<Sevos> e. g. importing Python modules
21:41:42FromDiscord<Yardanico> In reply to @Sevos "e. g. importing Python": not sure what you mean
21:41:52FromDiscord<Sevos> Python has a lot of libraries that can be used
21:42:01FromDiscord<Sevos> alone this fact makes programming much easier i guess
21:42:02FromDiscord<Yardanico> For importing python modules we have nimpy which uses CPython's C FFI
21:42:42FromDiscord<Sevos> nice lol
21:43:03FromDiscord<Sevos> ah
21:43:07FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yea monty, i only want 2 things really a functioning Nim sdk(it's started) and a channelled voip 😛
21:43:27FromDiscord<jfmonty2> Interesting, who's working on the nim sdk? I might have to take a look
21:44:00FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> https://github.com/dylhack/matrix-nim-sdk is where it's at and it of course has a matrix room
21:44:22FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I have thought about properly contributing, but I need to read/look into how the API should be done
21:44:50FromDiscord<jfmonty2> Yeah, think I'd have to try writing a bot in it or something before I'd feel ready to contribute
21:44:53FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Presently my contribution is just adding a macro that removes redundant procs due to using a generic for async
21:45:19FromDiscord<jfmonty2> That's another thing, I haven't really messed with async in nim at all
21:45:20FromDiscord<Sevos> @ElegantBeef how did you learn programming?
21:45:42FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Primarily through trying to make games using the Unity engine
21:45:47FromDiscord<Sevos> oof
21:48:16FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I dont get what's oof worthy there, and i never will
22:33:28FromDiscord<lenis> ^
22:34:02FromDiscord<lenis> I learned it through Minecraft. and now I work for the largest commercial bank in my country
23:07:42FromDiscord<treeform> In reply to @@droptweetrxd_twitter-5a0487c2d7 "hi. does someone": Also globby is not that great. We ended up not using it that much.
23:09:04FromDiscord<evoalg> @treeform I use your `print` all the time and I want it in std libs or even in system! 🙂
23:10:49FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> This is why stdlib distributions are a good idea
23:11:52FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> But alas, guess you can always just always import the file in your nimcfg
23:14:38FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> For instance you can add `--import:"print"` to `.config/nim/nim.cfg` then you dont need to import `print` any more
23:15:07FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> The downside is it's global so if you release a library and use print i'll complain on the user side if you forget to add it as a dep
23:15:09FromDiscord<evoalg> I have to print out vars so much while I'm debugging etc and so when I do `print a, b, myseq` I get this printed out `a=4 b="foo bar" myseq=@[1, 2, 3]` (and in pretty colors) and it's so helpful and saves typing, speeds up debugging (for me)
23:15:46FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> otherwise you can put a `config.nims` with `--import:"print"` in your local file
23:15:56FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Depends what you're doing/wanting, just something to consider
23:16:11FromDiscord<evoalg> interesting - thanks!
23:16:59FromDiscord<evoalg> does the .nims have the same format as nim.cfg?
23:17:31FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> `.nims` is a nimscript file, it has to be parseable nim, but there is a template/macro for `--import:"print"` syntax
23:17:50FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> comiically that's just `--(import, "print")` 😛
23:18:42FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You dont have to do the latter it's just how it expands, the `--a:b` works fine
23:19:12FromDiscord<evoalg> so I could put `--import:"print"` in either config.nims or nim.cfg? I don't really now what nimscript is for?
23:19:21FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yes
23:19:44FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nimscript is just a scriptable subset of Nim, so it can be used for manythings, configuration, program scripting... whatever you use a scripting language fo
23:20:02FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> For instance this is nimscript in use with my interop https://streamable.com/9zr8w4
23:20:44FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> In this case of course nimscript is being used to call functions and set values for the compiler before it's fully invoked
23:21:02FromDiscord<evoalg> is that updating live like being interpreted?
23:21:11FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It is being interpreted
23:21:16FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Since it's nimscript
23:21:27FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nimscript is also what is used for macros/compile time evaluation
23:21:34FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> So this links back to `static` 😛
23:21:53FromDiscord<evoalg> hehe true. I didn't know Nim had an interpreter
23:22:17FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It does and it's pretty nifty
23:22:36FromDiscord<evoalg> it's not a repl though right?
23:22:50FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nope, it's a VM
23:23:02FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> it takes Nim code converts it to op codes and then runs it
23:23:15FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> So it can be used like a REPL but not explicitly one
23:23:23FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> `nim secret` is the repl usage of it
23:23:37FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Though if you want a repl i'd still say inim is the best, it's not instant but pretty fast
23:24:32FromDiscord<evoalg> yea inim is just a bit annoying that it's slow, so I end up not using it much
23:25:07FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yea i prefer a proper editor anyway so i just do that whole `nvim /tmp/someFile.nim`
23:25:17FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> it's functionally the same to me
23:26:02FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Though i also use nim-playground so i guess i'm dishonest
23:26:03FromDiscord<evoalg> is nimscript a strict subset of Nim?
23:26:08FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yep
23:26:18FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Some things are unimplemented or invalid
23:26:29FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> C interop for one, some type casting is aswell
23:26:53FromDiscord<evoalg> does nimscript work in playground?
23:27:03FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nah
23:27:17FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well yes the compile time/macros work, but you cant write nimscript
23:27:25FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It always compiles
23:28:05FromDiscord<evoalg> can you give me a really simple example of a nimscript file and how I would run it?
23:28:42FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FVp
23:29:22FromDiscord<evoalg> oooo thank you!
23:29:32FromDiscord<enthus1ast> but when you want to embed nimscript into your application you could use nimscripter
23:29:42FromDiscord<enthus1ast> or use the compilerapi directly
23:29:52FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Lol i dont even have to whore my own libraries anymore
23:30:07FromDiscord<enthus1ast> ;)
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23:31:06FromDiscord<evoalg> it's pretty darn fast
23:31:30FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Just think the startup time can be made faster with a minor change to the compiler 😛
23:33:06FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3FVr
23:33:16FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> All documented here https://nim-lang.org/docs/nims.html and https://nim-lang.org/docs/nimscript.html
23:33:53FromDiscord<evoalg> do you use it much yourself?
23:34:12FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> not as an external scripting language, i do have plans for it as an embedded one
23:34:25FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I dont need scripting languages much
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23:35:12FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Like i plan on removing the Toml config and replacing it with nimscript for my WM, but that involves me working on it again, couldnt ever get the gnome password guard to properly unlock for me
23:35:53FromDiscord<evoalg> wow
23:36:56FromDiscord<evoalg> why do you do test files in `/tmp/someFile.nim` (and playground) and not nimscript (eg `/tmp/someFile.nims`) if it's faster?
23:37:15FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Cause it's not noticeably faster
23:37:50FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Compiling a small program takes all but a second on my machine, booting up the vm takes probably 100ms
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23:38:15FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> One thing i did want to do is make a REPL for macros
23:39:19FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> A small program that takes a nimscript file you write macros in and output the AST in a nice graphic, something like a projective editor just no dragging/dropping
23:39:44FromDiscord<evoalg> ahhhh nice
23:40:25FromDiscord<evoalg> You're so smart, it makes me appreciate how you come down to my level to explain things in a way I can understand
23:40:41FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's funny you say that cause i dont feel that smart 😛
23:41:53nixfreaknim[m]Elegantbeef how can I loop through all the pubDates , do I have to know the ending range?
23:42:19FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> `for x in rssData.items: echo x.pubDate`
23:42:44FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Damn it evo now i really want to make that silly tool, shame on you
23:43:30nixfreaknim[m]Thanks
23:44:39FromDiscord<evoalg> lol
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23:46:18FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> [enthus1ast](https://matrix.to/#/@sn0re:matrix.code0.xyz)\: also have you used nimscripter any?
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23:51:08FromDiscord<evoalg> when I try and run the nimscript example `nim e eg2.nims` it fails with a ValueError ... I tried `nim e eg2.nims 5` too but still no good
23:51:37FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I set it up for the shebang so the`paramStr` should be like 4 or 5
23:52:57FromDiscord<evoalg> `nim e eg2.nims 5 5 5 5 5 5` didn't work either ... I don't know how to run it 😉
23:54:41FromDiscord<evoalg> Oh I reread what you said ... it's working now!
23:55:06FromDiscord<evoalg> I had to use `paramStr(3)`