<< 25-10-2021 >>
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00:22:13FromDiscord<demotomohiro> If you write a config file that sets `--import` compiler option, you might be able to use modules specified by that option without writing import statement.
00:22:54FromDiscord<demotomohiro> https://nim-lang.org/docs/nimc.html
00:32:05FromDiscord<exelotl> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3CK0
00:33:47FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> tbh i always get annoyed when I have to go and add `import std/strformat` but ahh well
01:08:40FromDiscord<evoalg> "include prelude" <-- exactly what I was after for quick & dirty testing while I'm learning - thank you!
01:12:13nrds<Prestige99> On 1.4.8 I was able to this: https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3CKd but not on 1.6 - It's probably proper now, but is there a way I could get the same behavior without having to cast A to B?
01:12:49FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You'll have to cast, since that was a bug it worked
01:12:56nrds<Prestige99> dang
01:13:07FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> One second have to see something
01:16:36FromDiscord<furyusss> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3CKf
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01:23:26FromDiscord<KimJongUnstoppable> does anyone know an easy way to get OS version using either the standard library or a package for nim? the best solution I found so far is using wmic but that's both hacky and likely to look suspect lol and even with wmic I have to parse the output which is a PITA
01:24:50FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Getting os version is platform specific
01:25:01FromDiscord<KimJongUnstoppable> I can limit scope to windows for now
01:25:04FromDiscord<KimJongUnstoppable> if that helps
01:25:16FromDiscord<KimJongUnstoppable> I don't plan on dealing with macos or linux anytime soon tbh
01:26:09FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well doesnt help me since i dont know how to get version on that OS
01:26:20FromDiscord<KimJongUnstoppable> LOL
01:26:27FromDiscord<KimJongUnstoppable> I finally found a question you can't answer
01:26:38nrds<Prestige99> is there nothing on https://nim-lang.org/docs/os.html about it?
01:26:41FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well i mean i can refer you to stackoverflow
01:26:43FromDiscord<KimJongUnstoppable> if I figure it out I'll report back and share
01:27:04FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> uname is the answer on posix 😛
01:27:18FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Sadly prestige i cannot get any of my onesize fit all solutions to work
01:27:29nrds<Prestige99> ah, all good
01:27:42nrds<Prestige99> was thinking maybe I could write a macro or something
01:28:07FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I mean all you need to do is add one line https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3CKj
01:28:14FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You can do it in a macro ofc
01:32:51FromDiscord<evoalg> sent a long message, see https://paste.rs/fwA
01:33:31FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You cannot expect the name of a proc/macro to do anything without arguments or parenthesis
01:33:50FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> `echo` is just the symbol(unless it's a template, they have different semantics)
01:34:21FromDiscord<evoalg> makes sense, thank you
01:39:29FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Prestige here's the macro solution https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3CKl
01:39:47FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Not great since it injects a proc, but it's a solution
01:44:33FromDiscord<Professor Actual Factual> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3CKp
01:49:52nrds<Prestige99> Thanks beef :)
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01:52:09FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> no problem
01:55:57FromDiscord<KimJongUnstoppable> is there a specific way to reference a space as a character constant? I tried '\s' which didn't work and ' ' is treated as void
01:56:12FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> `' '`
01:56:58FromDiscord<KimJongUnstoppable> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/3CKu
01:57:08FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> `" "` is not the same as `' '`
01:57:27FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> but that's no the reason for that error
01:57:41FromDiscord<KimJongUnstoppable> Got the same error with single quotes
01:57:42FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> removePrefix doesn't return a string
01:58:02FromDiscord<KimJongUnstoppable> OH. I need to call it and then echo the variable after
01:58:03FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> where does `removePrefix` come from?
01:58:14FromDiscord<KimJongUnstoppable> strutils. I just reread the example and I missed that the first time
01:58:50FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> yeah it takes a var string so it mutates the string you pass it but doesn't return a value
01:58:57FromDiscord<KimJongUnstoppable> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/3CKw
01:59:25FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> `"but expression 'removePrefix(winVersion, " ")' is of type: void"`↵means it doesn't return a value so you can't pass it as an argument
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02:34:34FromDiscord<evoalg> I'm just trying to see in what other ways removePrefix can be done (by something else) (so that I can learn) ... if there is only one space in front of the string, this seems to work:↵winVersion = winVersion.strip(trailing=false)
02:36:26FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> winVersion = winVersion[1..^1]
02:36:40FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> if you know the first character will be a space
02:36:46FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> If there is only one space, though that copies the collection
02:38:23FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Which i guess is probably what you want 😀
02:38:58FromDiscord<evoalg> In reply to @Elegantbeef "If there is only": Are you saying to if it's possible to do it in-place then it's better because it's faster? ... or more memory efficient?
02:40:29FromDiscord<evoalg> oh I think I was misunderstanding again
02:40:57FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well doing `[1..^1]` will make a new string, where `removePrefix` will move the the elements by the number of characters that procede the data
02:41:19FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> So the `removePrefix` doesnt have another allocation
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02:42:46FromDiscord<evoalg> gotcha ok thanks
02:46:44FromDiscord<evoalg> import re; winVersion = winVersion.replace(re"^ ")↵.... so many ways
02:48:41FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Regex is the worst
02:48:49FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> there is also `strscans`
02:49:27FromDiscord<evoalg> oh ok! ... re is the worst in terms of speed? readability?
02:51:46FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I hate regex 😛
02:51:59FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Mostly just it's generally annoying to read/write and doesnt nicely capture anything
02:53:39nrds<Prestige99> ACTION loves regex
02:54:02FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> How often are you running this function?
02:54:28FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> If it's less than thousands/millions of times a second, probably don't worry
02:54:55FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> Use whatever's least confusing
02:55:02FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yea there isnt much reason to care, but i just though it'd mention that `[a..b]` is a copy operation, so in performance sensitive areas you'd want to use `toOpenArray`
02:55:15FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I'm a terrible person so shun me to my shun corner
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03:54:20FromDiscord<evoalg> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/3CL5
03:58:30FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It probably should error
03:58:54FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> But eh seems it works "properly"
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04:12:37FromDiscord<evoalg> echo "foo"[^4] # leads to: Error: unhandled exception: index -1 not in 0 .. 2 [IndexDefect]↵(as expected)
04:15:53FromDiscord<evoalg> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/3CLb
04:16:32FromDiscord<Professor Actual Factual> Does anyone know if a library exists in Nim that provides circular static arrays? In other words Arrays (not seq) that kind of behave like deques (but we're not really allocating anything for popping or appending)
04:17:22FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> A ring buffer?
04:17:27FromDiscord<Professor Actual Factual> Yes thats the term lol
04:17:46FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I think impbox has one for Nico
04:18:16FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> There is also this ancient impl https://github.com/megawac/RingBuffer.nim
04:19:18FromDiscord<Professor Actual Factual> Thank you for the help 🙂
04:19:51FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> No problem
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04:51:16NimEventerNew thread by V3ss0n: TechEmpower Benchmarks , see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/8537
04:51:27FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> @impbox [ftsf]\: @geekrelief well i felt good with the present stated of nimscripter(i documented it) so nimscripter 1.0.0! 😀
04:51:31FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> yeah, i think i stole mine from that one and modified it
04:51:41FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> @ElegantBeef \o/ congrats!
04:52:12FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Thanks i cant believe it myself, i could write 1.0.0, my first day of kindergarten paid off!
04:53:28FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Though i still need to tend to `exportTo` with types/converters, but for now we'll pretend it doesnt work with them
04:53:50FromDiscord<geekrelief> @ElegantBeef Looking forward to checking it out tomorrow.
04:55:19FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> impbox you'll probably like the `safeLoadScriptWithState` as it only changes the interpreter if the code is parsed properly
04:55:33FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> rad! sounds handy
04:56:12FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Though one thing i'm thinking about changing is making `nim -> nimscript` involve a hidden variable, to make it less user error prone
04:56:43FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3CLm
04:56:54FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Cause right now they can change that dt to a string and it'll crash and there is no good way of preventing it
04:58:05FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's probably a fine solution given the facts at hand, no clue how you guys feel about it
04:58:30FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> how does the hidden variable help?
04:58:42FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's typed and the users cannot change it
04:58:58FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> `var update: proc(dt: float32)` would be hidden from the programmer
04:59:19FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> So when you do `update = proc(dt: string) = discard` the vm doesnt run and you get an error
04:59:37FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Right now the VM runs but the compiled code doesnt know it's going to send an invalid type
05:00:17FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Cause in your case the compiled code is still sending a float32, but the VM treats it as a string
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05:00:56FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> So as soon as you use the value the VM crashes, and this is the least awful solution
05:01:04FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> nods i see
05:01:06FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> kinda
05:01:44FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> The best sounding but most awful to implement is to type check the proc the user is calling. Sounds simple until you remember the types we have are compiled types not compiled runtime types
05:02:27FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> So to check if a given type matches the type i have to traverse the VM's typedef, and the compiled codes typedef
05:04:11FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's just a side effect of having a static environment and one that can statically change
05:04:47FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I also should have checked conversions to/from the VM for catchable errors, but presently do not since it's complicated 😀
05:05:24FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> sounds like it's good enough to take for a spin, just not trust to life support systems
05:05:31FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> (edit) "sounds like it's good enough to take for a spin, just not ... trust" added "to"
05:06:23FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well if you dont right wrong code "it'll work" 😛
05:06:24FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well if you dont write wrong code "it'll work" 😛
05:10:05FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> I would never do such a thing
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05:11:01FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I think it's more like a mostly built ship without escape pods, it'll get you there but if you fuck up you're sincerely fucked
05:12:59FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I'm now curious if it's possible to save the global states to a file and reload them after closing the program and reopening
05:13:29FromDiscord<impbox [ftsf]> assuming all the state is serializable i don't see why not
05:13:40FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well the state uses VM symbols
05:14:00FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> So it's reliant on the VM's script not changing the symbols around
05:41:12FromDiscord<unknownusername> Is de morgan law a meme to handle simple if-else statements?
05:43:38FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> What do you mean by that, briefly skimming it's a simple law
05:45:22FromDiscord<unknownusername> Yeah but some """"seniors"""" say that if you use else rather than de morgan law you are dumb, which actually I find it dumb
05:46:52FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I dont get how `use else` and the laws coincide
05:47:52FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Ideally you use the least amount of flow control whilst still having easily to maintain code, so that means using nested ifs when it makes sense
05:48:51FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3CLA
05:49:25FromDiscord<xflywind> \
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10:44:49NimEventerNew thread by Kobi: Code comments please, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/8538
11:13:50FromDiscord<eyecon> Hello, I'm very new to Nim and I'm currently trying to write a proc that takes an iterator and gives the maximum value yielded by the iterator together with its index, without allocating memory for all return values (throwing away all non-maximum values at each step). I thought this could be an easy task for a template, but I seem to be running into beginner problems. Do we already have something like this I can learn from?
11:16:17FromDiscord<demotomohiro> An inline iterator is no a thing exists at runtime and you cannot pass it to a proc
11:17:10FromDiscord<eyecon> So I need a closure iterator, you mean?
11:17:14FromDiscord<haxscramper> There is no `maxIt` template in the stdlib, but you can check out implementation of the `mapIt`
11:17:19FromDiscord<demotomohiro> https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#iterators-and-the-for-statement-firstminusclass-iterators↵Yes
11:17:35FromDiscord<haxscramper> Yes, closure iterator can be passed to procs
11:17:44FromDiscord<eyecon> In reply to @haxscramper "There is no `maxIt`": Thanks, will do
11:20:10FromDiscord<eyecon> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3CNQ
11:21:13FromDiscord<haxscramper> `iter: iterator` -\> `iter: iterator(): int {.closure.}`
11:21:15FromDiscord<eyecon> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3CNR
11:21:17FromDiscord<Rika> `proc maxiter[T](iter: iterator[T]): T =`
11:21:22FromDiscord<haxscramper> `iterator` is a typeclass
11:21:23FromDiscord<eyecon> proc will ideally be a template
11:21:24FromDiscord<Rika> oh yeah
11:21:25FromDiscord<Rika> iterable
11:21:26FromDiscord<Rika> not iterator
11:21:27FromDiscord<Rika> whoops
11:21:28FromDiscord<haxscramper> `iterator(): int {.closure.}` is a concrete class
11:21:41FromDiscord<Rika> read what hax said, not mine
11:22:16FromDiscord<haxscramper> also, `maxValue: int = 0` is a bug, what if max value ever found is -120?
11:22:22FromDiscord<haxscramper> `maxValue = low(int)`
11:22:32FromDiscord<haxscramper> or for generic procs `maxValue = low(T)`
11:22:51FromDiscord<eyecon> In reply to @haxscramper "also, `maxValue: int =": You are right, I oversimplified a bit, originally I tried to use a sentinel value but I can add it later
11:23:03FromDiscord<eyecon> Or I can use the low()
11:24:16FromDiscord<eyecon> In reply to @haxscramper "`iter: iterator` -\> `iter:": Which line is this change? Do you mean the `maxiter` definition?
11:24:33FromDiscord<Rika> yes
11:25:01FromDiscord<Rika> also remove the `[int]` part there
11:26:16FromDiscord<eyecon> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3CNV
11:26:35FromDiscord<Rika> at the end you are returning (maxIndex, maxValue)
11:26:42FromDiscord<Rika> but only specify `): int =`
11:26:52FromDiscord<eyecon> Ah, right
11:27:04FromDiscord<haxscramper> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3CNW
11:27:31FromDiscord<eyecon> Can I use `tuple[int, int]`?
11:27:34FromDiscord<Rika> yes
11:27:37FromDiscord<Rika> wait
11:27:38FromDiscord<Rika> no
11:27:44FromDiscord<Rika> `tuple[a: int, b: int]`
11:28:13FromDiscord<Rika> you can change a to index and b to value if you want
11:28:49FromDiscord<eyecon> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3CNX
11:28:59FromDiscord<Rika> myit is not a closure
11:29:22FromDiscord<eyecon> In reply to @Rika "myit is not a": Yes
11:29:24FromDiscord<eyecon> That did it
11:29:27FromDiscord<eyecon> Thank you!
11:29:35FromDiscord<Rika> dont forget to read what hax said
11:30:01FromDiscord<eyecon> I will in a couple hours, I changed so much that I can't see basic errors anymore
11:30:08FromDiscord<eyecon> And will definitely come back
11:30:13FromDiscord<eyecon> Thank you both so much
11:30:21FromDiscord<eyecon> I have to take a break now 🙂
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12:23:10NimEventerNew question by Jonas Bystr&#246;m: How to assign object to ref, see https://stackoverflow.com/questions/69707966/how-to-assign-object-to-ref
12:51:18NimEventerNew thread by Kobi: Foray into android land with Kivy, and nimpy., see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/8539
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13:05:20NimEventerNew thread by Miran: Nim receives $100k in Bitcoin donations, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/8540
13:13:52PMunchDamn, that's quite the amount!
13:17:42FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> I read: nim will receive $150k by march 2022
13:18:34FromDiscord<Rika> nim will receive 10k by april 2022
13:18:58FromDiscord<Gumber> I don't even remember where I donated my $$$$ to Nim - it wasn't open collective
13:19:02FromDiscord<Gumber> it wasn't a bitcoin wallet
13:19:10FromDiscord<Gumber> it was some other donation website that seems to no longer be around / in use?
13:19:13FromDiscord<forlorn> $100k? Whoa
13:19:29FromDiscord<Gumber> I think I did like $150/mo for about 1.5 years?
13:19:31FromDiscord<forlorn> Haven't heard an opensource project getting donations of this scale
13:19:41FromDiscord<forlorn> (edit) "Haven't heard ... an" added "of"
13:19:52FromDiscord<Gumber> some open source projects have multimillion/billion dollar companies backing them
13:19:59FromDiscord<Gumber> (edit) "multimillion/billion" => "multi-million/billion"
13:20:02FromDiscord<Gumber> $100k is peanuts
13:20:11FromDiscord<forlorn> Nim doesn't have any of those does it?
13:20:17FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> Nop
13:20:23FromDiscord<Gumber> No - it's only received two sizable donations in its history
13:20:26FromDiscord<Gumber> the status.im grant
13:20:29FromDiscord<Gumber> and now this bitcoin one
13:20:39FromDiscord<Gumber> the status.im one was for like ~20k or so I think?
13:20:46FromDiscord<Rika> i guess it was nice to have delayed cashing out on this since they received it
13:20:48FromDiscord<forlorn> status.im?
13:20:48FromDiscord<Gumber> so this is by far the largest
13:20:51FromDiscord<Gumber> yes status.im
13:21:05FromDiscord<forlorn> Is that an app that uses Nim?
13:21:11FromDiscord<haxscramper> status pays 10k per month for nim core devs
13:21:22FromDiscord<Gumber> Ah okay - didn't realize they had made that official - sweet
13:21:39FromDiscord<Gumber> they implemented eth 2.0 in Nim I believe
13:21:47FromDiscord<Gumber> and they use Nim for one of their desktop apps as well
13:21:57FromDiscord<Gumber> for web apps / mobile apps I think they use clojurescript
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13:22:37FromDiscord<Gumber> a few Nim core devs went to work for them
13:22:57FromDiscord<haxscramper> really?↵(@Gumber)
13:23:03FromDiscord<Gumber> Zahary
13:23:09FromDiscord<Gumber> Cheatfate - although he wasn't a core dev
13:23:20FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> Araq himself?
13:23:29FromDiscord<Gumber> Araq yeah I think he has done some work for them for sure
13:23:42FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> Thanks, thats what i thought
13:23:44FromDiscord<Gumber> there was one or two other people as well I believe
13:24:00FromDiscord<Gumber> I just can't remember off the top of my head - if you go check out their github org its easy enough to figure out 🙂
13:24:08FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> I wanna say kurx but idk
13:24:13FromDiscord<Gumber> nah krux02 didn't
13:24:15FromDiscord<Gumber> but arne did
13:24:30FromDiscord<Gumber> he was one of the original hires though - and was the one that pushed Nim I think
13:24:43FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> I always say It wrong x)
13:24:52FromDiscord<Gumber> mratsim
13:24:59FromDiscord<Gumber> again not a core dev
13:25:23NimEventerNew thread by Kiloneie: Looking for feedback on Nim for Beginners #27 Object Variants, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/8541
13:25:37FromDiscord<Gumber> maybe it was only zah and araq but I could have sworn there were one or two others - I guess maybe just not core devs 😅
13:26:44FromDiscord<forlorn> So what's the constrained type story in Nim?↵I know you can specify numeric ranges as types, which I found very impressive. What else can you do?
13:26:57FromDiscord<forlorn> Do you have literal types like you do in TypeScript?
13:27:56FromDiscord<Gumber> we have distinct types but not literal types
13:28:14FromDiscord<Gumber> and we have first class enums
13:28:49FromDiscord<Gumber> so you can do like `type myuint32 = distinct uint32`
13:29:05FromDiscord<forlorn> In reply to @Gumber "and we have first": Are you able to use a subset of existing enum as another type, maybe using any of Nim's static introspection features?
13:29:17FromDiscord<forlorn> (edit) "In reply to @Gumber "and we have first": Are you able to use a subset of ... existing" added "an"
13:29:43FromDiscord<haxscramper> Yes, `range[EnumStart .. EnumEnd]`
13:30:09FromDiscord<haxscramper> This is not a subset, but only a slice
13:30:28FromDiscord<forlorn> Do you have to use ranges?
13:30:39FromDiscord<forlorn> Can't you make a non-contiguous subset?
13:30:53FromDiscord<haxscramper> No, I can't make non-contiguous subset
13:31:12FromDiscord<forlorn> Aw that's unfortunate
13:31:18FromDiscord<haxscramper> You can get creative with `[T: static[set[Enum]]` or something like that
13:31:48FromDiscord<forlorn> So there are workarounds?
13:32:27FromDiscord<haxscramper> yes, you can implement anything given enough interest
13:32:37FromDiscord<haxscramper> https://github.com/alaviss/union
13:32:42FromDiscord<haxscramper> Example of "anything"
13:32:56FromDiscord<forlorn> Like, does Nim allow you to programmatically access members of an enum (like a list maybe) and return another enum list?
13:33:02FromDiscord<haxscramper> ts-like `A | B`
13:33:39FromDiscord<haxscramper> @forlorn)
13:33:59FromDiscord<haxscramper> you can do `for value in low(Enum) .. high(Enum)`
13:34:14FromDiscord<haxscramper> or you can `getType` and retrieve full type structure
13:35:19FromDiscord<haxscramper> what is the end goal here? You can write a macro that takes `enum A, B, C` and then creates you enum with `A, B` that is convertible to/from original one
13:35:32FromDiscord<haxscramper> Using automatically declared `converter` etc.
13:35:39FromDiscord<forlorn> In reply to @haxscramper "what is the end": Yes that was what I was looking for
13:36:21FromDiscord<haxscramper> https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/lib/std/enumutils.nim#L76-L81
13:36:29FromDiscord<haxscramper> get enum names from `typed`
13:36:42FromDiscord<forlorn> One last question, does Nim have pattern matching to go along with its tuples and distinct types?
13:37:08FromDiscord<haxscramper> tuples - yes, distinct types - no, but I also don't understand how this might work
13:37:23FromDiscord<haxscramper> so if latter one makes sense I might be able to implement this
13:37:50FromDiscord<haxscramper> https://nim-lang.org/blog/2021/03/10/fusion-and-pattern-matching.html
13:38:00FromDiscord<forlorn> From what I understand distinct types are opaque types/`newtype`'s right?
13:38:08FromDiscord<haxscramper> right
13:38:13FromDiscord<forlorn> How are you able to destructure/extract their underlying value?
13:38:51FromDiscord<haxscramper> for `type Distinct = disctinct Base` I need to do `Base(<Distinct value>)`
13:38:56FromDiscord<haxscramper> But this conversion is a compile-time
13:39:06FromDiscord<haxscramper> So I can't really pattern-match against it at runtime
13:39:14FromDiscord<forlorn> Oh, fair
13:39:16FromDiscord<haxscramper> Well, I could of course
13:39:36FromDiscord<haxscramper> But pattern matching checks current "runtime shape" of the object mostly
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13:43:23FromDiscord<forlorn> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3COK
13:44:15FromDiscord<haxscramper> We don't do CFA right now
13:44:18FromDiscord<haxscramper> Control flow analysis
13:44:41FromDiscord<haxscramper> https://github.com/nim-lang/RFCs/issues/429
13:45:04FromDiscord<haxscramper> I don't remember, I think it will compile but fail at runtime at the moment you pass function
13:45:09FromDiscord<forlorn> Oh alright, so how can you cast an `int` to `Foo`?
13:45:39FromDiscord<forlorn> In reply to @haxscramper "I don't remember, I": This does not produce a compile error?
13:45:46FromDiscord<haxscramper> First - this is called conversion, not casting. There is a `cast` and it is different
13:46:06FromDiscord<haxscramper> Second - `let a: range[1 .. 10] = 20` is a compilation error
13:46:09FromDiscord<Rika> no it does not, he just said control flow analysis isnt done
13:46:16FromDiscord<haxscramper> !eval let a\: range[1..30] = 123
13:46:18NimBotCompile failed: /usercode/in.nim(1, 9) Error: ':' or '=' expected, but got 'range'
13:46:31FromDiscord<haxscramper> wath
13:46:40FromDiscord<haxscramper> killed by a bridge
13:47:07FromDiscord<Rika> its the discord bridge specifically
13:47:20FromDiscord<haxscramper> Yes, this does not produce compile-time error because `n`'s value is not known at compile-time, and additional heuristics is not deployed after you check for value ranges↵(@forlorn)
13:48:21FromDiscord<haxscramper> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3COP
13:48:28FromDiscord<haxscramper> Points to the `discard f(n)` line
13:51:56FromDiscord<reilly> How can I get around `Error: illegal capture 's' because ':anonymous' has the calling convention: <cdecl>`? I'm passing a callback proc into an ImGui element, and the type definition requires `{.cdecl.}`. `s` is of type `cstring`.
13:52:32FromDiscord<haxscramper> you cannot capture external variables in the `{.cdecl.}` procs, so your only option is to declare it as `s {.global.}: ...`
13:52:52FromDiscord<haxscramper> Alternatively, does your cdecl callback support `void payload` maybe?
13:53:52FromDiscord<reilly> Just making `s` `{.global.}` does the job. Thanks.
13:54:14FromDiscord<forlorn> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3COR
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13:54:40FromDiscord<Rika> nim needs manpower for the nicer features
13:54:55FromDiscord<haxscramper> nim needs singular aim for nicer features
13:55:23FromDiscord<haxscramper> and then people can start working on things, if there were some kind of shared/official vision
13:55:41FromDiscord<forlorn> There's no official roadmap of some sort?
13:56:10FromDiscord<haxscramper> I feel like a bad person at these moments
13:56:12FromDiscord<haxscramper> none that I know of
13:56:55FromDiscord<Rika> its fine hax
13:57:12FromDiscord<Rika> nim does need a more aimed vision
13:57:32FromDiscord<haxscramper> There is a lot of nice features currently in development
13:57:42FromDiscord<haxscramper> IC, view types, strict functions, somewhat better effect system
13:57:46FromDiscord<haxscramper> But the problem
13:57:52FromDiscord<haxscramper> there is a lot of them
13:58:00FromDiscord<haxscramper> too much for a current dev team IMO
13:58:03FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @Gumber "Ah okay - didn't": that 10k per month figure was on the website at some point in the past IIRC
13:58:29FromDiscord<dom96> it's a pity it was removed
13:58:35FromDiscord<dom96> we should be more transparent not less
13:58:49FromDiscord<forlorn> we have an effect system?
13:58:53FromDiscord<Rika> yes
13:59:02FromDiscord<Rika> its not that good
13:59:03FromDiscord<haxscramper> probably not the one you used to though
13:59:05FromDiscord<Rika> but its there
13:59:18FromDiscord<haxscramper> it is good, just nobody really figure out what to do with it
13:59:34FromDiscord<haxscramper> Side effect tracking is good
13:59:38FromDiscord<Rika> eh isnt it a bit buggy
13:59:48FromDiscord<Rika> actually i guess everything in general is a bit buggy
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14:00:12FromDiscord<haxscramper> But general effect tagging is not so widely used, in a sense that nobody came up with actuall usage patterns
14:00:46FromDiscord<haxscramper> But with 1.6 side effect messages finally gotten better
14:01:14FromDiscord<haxscramper> if you declare code as `func` and have some unwanted side effects it will tell you exactly where are they
14:01:41FromDiscord<haxscramper> I guess
14:01:42FromDiscord<haxscramper> so you can have mostly imperative code but still achieve functional purity
14:06:38FromDiscord<eyecon> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3COW
14:06:53FromDiscord<Rika> `maxValue: int = T.low` this is uhhhhhhh
14:07:01FromDiscord<haxscramper> low(T)
14:07:01FromDiscord<Rika> strange
14:07:11FromDiscord<eyecon> Ah, I forgot the int there
14:07:16FromDiscord<haxscramper> usually you do `low(T)`, `high(T)`, `default(T)`
14:07:34FromDiscord<Rika> hax i personally do T.low T.high default(T)
14:07:38FromDiscord<Rika> its preference
14:07:45FromDiscord<haxscramper> You can also define `func init(t: typedesc[MyType])` and do `init(MyType)`
14:07:49FromDiscord<Rika> the issue is more of dont `low` and `high` return T?
14:07:55FromDiscord<eyecon> But `int` is wrong at any rate, should have been `T`
14:08:12FromDiscord<Rika> yes pretty much
14:09:52FromDiscord<alehander42> In reply to @Gumber "he was one of": iirc zahary got arne in, they already had chosen nim before that. zahary and me were on of the first hires, i left quickly after that after deciding i don't want to work on crypto/blockhain
14:09:58NimEventerNew post on r/nim by miran1: Nim receives $100k in Bitcoin donations, see https://reddit.com/r/nim/comments/qfhjrb/nim_receives_100k_in_bitcoin_donations/
14:10:03FromDiscord<alehander42> (edit) "on" => "one" | "oneof the first ... hires," added "nim"
14:10:22FromDiscord<Gumber> In reply to @alehander42 "iirc zahary got arne": ah okay - I didn't realize you were working there too xD
14:10:30FromDiscord<alehander42> it started with a forum post by them in the nim forum
14:10:54FromDiscord<alehander42> maybe there was more before that, but that's what i personally know or remember
14:10:59FromDiscord<Rika> what's wrong with working on crypto?
14:11:06FromDiscord<haxscramper> oh, they do hire on nim forum sometimes
14:11:09FromDiscord<alehander42> i hate the blockchain industry
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14:14:27FromDiscord<alehander42> however congrats on the big donation 😄
14:17:03FromDiscord<dom96> lol
14:21:19FromDiscord<Gumber> All I know is that as soon as I hear the words distributed and crypto in the description of any product
14:21:25FromDiscord<Gumber> my brain immediately shuts off
14:21:47FromDiscord<Gumber> (edit) "All I know is that as soon as I hear the words distributed and crypto in the description of any product ... " added "/ project"
14:22:08FromDiscord<Gumber> the person talking to me turns into chef from muppet babies
14:22:16FromDiscord<Gumber> (edit) "the person talking to me turns into ... chef" added "the"
14:25:10FromDiscord<dom96> Personally I've always seen the crypto companies as risky, but now I think most crypto companies are likely to stick around for the foreseeable future (at the very least the well established ones, which I think Status is).
14:25:21FromDiscord<dom96> That said, it would still take a lot for me to work there
14:25:37FromDiscord<Gumber> I just have zero interest in the problem domain
14:25:46FromDiscord<Gumber> like negative interest actually
14:26:49FromDiscord<Gumber> but - it's probably why I'm not rich off crypto yet as well xD
14:27:57FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> Crypto isn't really sustainable imo. Monero is the only useful one (for illegal transactions). Everything else just burns electricity or some sort of resource.
14:28:12FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> (edit) "else" => ""
14:29:23FromDiscord<haxscramper> Need to make cryptocurrency that works on energy of people who hate cryptocurrency
14:29:27FromDiscord<haxscramper> infinite money
14:29:36FromDiscord<dom96> ETH is moving to PoS
14:30:00FromDiscord<dom96> (and I bet there are other cryptos that already do PoS)
14:30:02FromDiscord<IsaacPaul> I suppose eth is more viable but still a rocky foundation
14:30:13FromDiscord<Rika> tbh thats the only gripe most people have with crypto, the amount of stress it puts on the environment
14:34:07NimEventerNew post on r/nim by padraig_oh: fusion/matching broken in nim 1.6?, see https://reddit.com/r/nim/comments/qfi1d0/fusionmatching_broken_in_nim_16/
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14:37:25FromDiscord<haxscramper> oh, fun stuff↵(<@709044657232936960_=4eim=45venter=5b=49=52=43=5d>)
14:37:34FromDiscord<haxscramper> I need to poke at fusion rotting corpse again
14:37:36FromDiscord<eyecon> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3CP4
14:37:44FromDiscord<haxscramper> I wonder who would finally come up and unclog the CI
14:37:49FromDiscord<eyecon> (edit) "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3CP4" => "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3CP5"
14:37:53FromDiscord<haxscramper> has been failing for months now on windows
14:43:27FromDiscord<haxscramper> was fixed for clybber, but because fusion tries but does not really follow semver now person has the wrong version installed↵(<@709044657232936960_=4eim=45venter=5b=49=52=43=5d>)
14:44:20FromDiscord<Gumber> I'm using `smartptrs` from fusion but I just copied / pasted the implementation into my project
14:54:45FromDiscord<haxscramper> This looks like a more sustainable solution at this point
14:54:46FromDiscord<haxscramper> I mean
14:54:48FromDiscord<haxscramper> july 9
14:55:12FromDiscord<haxscramper> I have fixes from three months worth of things, and nobody even bothered to look at it
14:55:14FromDiscord<haxscramper> fusion can be considered dead
14:55:28FromDiscord<haxscramper> But hey, 15 new stdlib modules
14:59:08FromDiscord<Goel> Meanwhile arch official repository of nim still at version `1.4.8-1` 😫 And i don't want to compile from source again or i'll mess up my installation so i'll just wait. At least i flagged that as out of date, so hopefully they will push 1.6 tomorrow or `soon(Tm)`
14:59:48FromDiscord<enthus1ast> why not use choosenim?
15:01:09FromDiscord<Goel> Last time i used it i was on Windows and i had problems installing it with MingW, then it worked, then i went using Linux and since then i just rely on official packages from Arch and i never had a problem, just sometimes its a bit slow waiting
15:02:17FromDiscord<enthus1ast> for both os you just need to have a compiler and the nim bin directory on path
15:02:55FromDiscord<enthus1ast> when you can type in "gcc" in your shell you normally are good
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15:39:43NimEventerNew thread by Kiloneie: Metaprogramming in Nim #1 Introduction, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/8543
15:40:24NimEventerNew post on r/nim by Kiloneie: Metaprogramming in Nim #1 Introduction, see https://reddit.com/r/nim/comments/qfjg90/metaprogramming_in_nim_1_introduction/
15:40:35FromDiscord<Kiloneie> Hey guys, check out my new video 🙂
15:45:55FromDiscord<Kiloneie> Can someone retweet it on nim_lang pretty please 😛 ?
15:50:44FromDiscord<dom96> yay, we're on HN again 🙂
15:50:59FromDiscord<dom96> Looks like we need not just Ethereum but also other crypto addresses https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28989089
15:53:37FromDiscord<pietroppeter> we could set up crypto contributions in open collective (recent feature): it increases number of crypto currencies accepted and solves the problem of managing crypto currencies (you just don't, it translates directly do dollars): https://opencollective.com/opencollective/updates/support-open-source-software-using-crypto
15:54:47nrds<Prestige99> Wow that's a lot of $$
15:58:55FromDiscord<haxscramper> > ↵> Nice, we’ve got $100k! I wonder what we’re going to spend our $88k on? Maybe we should use our $112k to hire somebody to work on the compiler full time? Would $85k be enough for them?↵>
15:59:03FromDiscord<haxscramper> haha funny
15:59:55FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @pietroppeter "we could set up": Doesn't hurt to provide addresses, especially since we've invested in hardware wallets. Opencollective takes a cut afaik and their crypto support is still in beta. Also it's better to not centralise on just one donation platform.
16:02:03FromDiscord<haxscramper> use github donations as well
16:02:10FromDiscord<haxscramper> IIRC they are not set up for nim
16:02:49FromDiscord<pietroppeter> In reply to @dom96 "Doesn't hurt to provide": well, it is yet another option to receive donations and it seems easy enough to set up and forget about it
16:02:57FromDiscord<dom96> can github donations be set up for orgs or just individuals?
16:03:07FromDiscord<dom96> afaik github matches these so definitely would be good to set them up
16:04:11FromDiscord<haxscramper> https://github.blog/2020-05-12-github-sponsors-is-out-of-beta-for-sponsored-organizations/#join-github-sponsors-to-get-funded-as-an-organization
16:04:19FromDiscord<haxscramper> tldr can donate to org
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16:11:17FromDiscord<dom96> why aren't we doing this lol
16:13:36FromDiscord<dom96> Here is a proposal: let's use the website repo for these kinds of "operational" tasks: https://github.com/nim-lang/website/issues/313
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16:40:43FromDiscord<dom96> anddd a mod has killed the HN thread from front page
16:42:47FromDiscord<dom96> or at least that's what I assume happened
16:47:27FromDiscord<geekrelief> Besides bisecting, any tips on figuring out what's causing my slow compile times? The difference is an order of magnitude.
16:48:54FromDiscord<geekrelief> Sometimes I get compilations in a couple seconds and others 16s. I'm creating a C binding which is using generated code from nimterop, so I'm using includes to deal with type dependencies. I wonder if use of includes is causing it.
17:11:26FromDiscord<dom96> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/902242960568107048/Screen_Shot_2021-10-25_at_6.10.48_PM.png
17:11:45nrds<Prestige99> :o
17:14:08FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> "we are too smart to talk about your lang or the arguably more important invention since the steam engine"
17:15:03FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> idc if you think bitcoin is as important as i do, not the place to debate it, nor HN apparently :p
17:15:57FromDiscord<haxscramper> someone write bitcoin `<thing>` in rust
17:16:32FromDiscord<haxscramper> `#1` on HN front page, 490 comments all praising how this would help everyone everywhere
17:19:39FromDiscord<juan_carlos> Lets make a rust backend then 🤪
17:20:05FromDiscord<Rika> > infinitely worse
17:20:06FromDiscord<Rika> LMFAO
17:20:07FromDiscord<Rika> true
17:20:16FromDiscord<juan_carlos> Thats actually a good one for april fools... 🤔
17:21:12FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> In reply to @juan_carlos "Lets make a rust": smart, that way rust and nim would cancel out
17:22:00FromDiscord<juan_carlos> I mean eventually someone will do something that emits rust is just about time...
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17:23:57FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> idk, rust's selling point is memory safety, which can be enforced by the nim compiler without emitting rust code
17:25:00FromDiscord<juan_carlos> It was jk
17:25:07FromDiscord<Rika> yes but with significant difficulty
17:25:15FromDiscord<Rika> just like nim could output direct asm
17:25:31FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> tbh the fact that is isnt needed doesnt mean someone wont do it xD
17:25:45FromDiscord<geekrelief> In reply to @geekrelief "Sometimes I get compilations": hmm actually it's linking that's taking a long time.
17:25:53FromDiscord<Rika> someone might do it sure but whats the chance it would become a popular/used backend?
17:26:17FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> In reply to @Rika "yes but with significant": more difficult than adding a new backend that used correct rust code?
17:26:51FromDiscord<Rika> i would argue yes
17:27:37FromDiscord<Rika> if you want the enforced safety over the optimisations nim offers instead...
17:27:45FromDiscord<Rika> lots of things need implementing
17:27:50FromDiscord<Rika> okay
17:28:06FromDiscord<Rika> i see what your point is, but i still think theyre at least equally difficult
17:29:04FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> lets leave it in a tie then, i have to study :)
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18:08:16FromDiscord<pietroppeter> In reply to @dom96 "": That’s actually a fair answer to me (the discussion in the thread was not going anywhere), impressed that you were able to get an answer! I was more pissed when the same happened to NimConf2021 post. And maybe they had a good reason for that, but without knowing why, it all seems arbitrary and annoying
18:13:15NimEventerNew post on r/nim by shujidev: How to send a user defined callback to C with less parameters than it expects, see https://reddit.com/r/nim/comments/qfms0o/how_to_send_a_user_defined_callback_to_c_with/
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18:19:14FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @pietroppeter "That’s actually a fair": They are pretty responsive. Next time just email [email protected]
18:19:30FromDiscord<dom96> They should really be more transparent about this
18:20:21FromDiscord<dom96> But at least they answer when asked. Could just ignore us completely
18:31:04FromDiscord<Goel> Why paying @haxscramper $87k a year when he can do it for free :nim1:
18:36:06FromDiscord<haxscramper> Complain about everything there is for free is my mission
18:44:49FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> if im wrapping a class, with a constructor that takes certain parameters, and is initialised like this, how am i supposed to replicate this in nim?↵`AClass myClass = new AClass(index, team, name);`
18:44:59FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> im sorry the question is not that clear
18:46:16FromDiscord<haxscramper> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3CRc
18:46:18FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> ah, right, thanks hax
18:46:33FromDiscord<haxscramper> I think there was some magic to wrap `new` explicitly, but I prefer to just make procs for thsi
18:46:47FromDiscord<haxscramper> `cnew` because it is also possible to wrap constructor in a way that would construct `ref ACLass`
18:46:59FromDiscord<haxscramper> using placement new
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19:23:26FromDiscord<demotomohiro> If you need to write C++ code, I think using `new` operator is not safe because you have to call `delete` operator after you used the object.↵Just creating a object on stack like `AClass myClass(index, team, name);` or using smart pointer like `std::unique_ptr` or `std::shared_ptr` is safer.
19:25:31FromDiscord<haxscramper> best way to deal with this is to use nim memory management
19:25:46FromDiscord<haxscramper> placement new, etc.
19:27:08FromDiscord<haxscramper> https://github.com/sinkingsugar/nimline/blob/master/nimline.nim#L151
19:27:44FromDiscord<haxscramper> Wrong line, I meant next one
19:28:01Amun-Rathe comment
19:30:51FromDiscord<haxscramper> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3CRv
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19:38:17FromDiscord<Gumber> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3CRy
19:39:18FromDiscord<Gumber> guess I need to look at the C code...
19:56:22FromDiscord<Alea> In reply to @Recruit_main707 ""we are too smart": More important than the computers it runs on? 🤔
19:59:37FromDiscord<Alea> Actually that's an interesting question↵Can a child invention be more important than its parent invention?
20:03:12FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> too late to get so phylosophical :P
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21:56:27NimEventerNew post on r/nim by lattakia: I want to create a nim library that wraps a C library., see https://reddit.com/r/nim/comments/qfrfok/i_want_to_create_a_nim_library_that_wraps_a_c/
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22:14:25FromDiscord<pietroppeter> There is a 48 hour Nim donation matching drive on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28993476
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22:58:36FromDiscord<dom96> Yep! up to $500 matched (it can be donated anywhere afaik)
23:03:08FromDiscord<ajusa> Man it just hit me that Nim is somewhat known for being used in crypto and malware - usually not the greatest look
23:05:07NimEventerNew thread by Dom96: Donation matching drive via HN, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/8545
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23:26:37FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @ajusa "Man it just hit": if that's Nim's niche, I'll take it
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23:30:13FromDiscord<aHaquer> that's the spirit
23:31:52FromDiscord<dom96> I've definitely built some sus tools: https://github.com/dom96/deauther/ 😄
23:50:11nrds<Prestige99> Is there a way to bundle assets into an executable or would I need to use something like https://github.com/xmonader/nimassets ?
23:50:26FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> `staticRead`
23:51:15nrds<Prestige99> neat, thanks
23:52:21FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Use zippy to make a zip then use physfs for the most fun
23:52:21FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Up to you ofc
23:52:21FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Or use supersnappy