<< 27-03-2020 >>

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00:07:14	FromGitter	<zetashift> Does the playground compile with any special options? My code compiles fine on playground but on my local laptop it fails with a type mismatch
00:07:21	FromGitter	<zetashift> and the code is just copy pasted ><
00:07:28	leorize	no
00:07:54	Yardanico	can you share the code?
00:07:59	Yardanico	and maybe it's arch/os specific
00:08:41	FromGitter	<zetashift> https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2fBQ
00:08:47	FromGitter	<zetashift> well it's a type mismatch error
00:09:06	FromGitter	<zetashift> The error being: `C:\Users\Administrator\.choosenim\toolchains\nim-1.0.6\lib\pure\unittest.nim(665, 14) Error: type mism ⏎ atch: got <Matrix[W - 1, H - 1], Matrix[3, 3]> ⏎ but expected one of: ⏎ proc `==`I, T (x, y: array[I, T]): bool ⏎ first type mismatch at position: 2` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5e7d4422d783bb5a9d8dfa18]
00:09:42	Yardanico	works for me on latest devel on linux
00:09:50	Yardanico	and passes the test
00:10:25	FromGitter	<zetashift> I'm on Windows but I really don't see how this could be OS specific
00:10:39	FromDiscord	<KingDarBoja> I am on Windows, let me see
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00:12:11	FromDiscord	<KingDarBoja> All good here!
00:12:13	dom96	different nim version?
00:12:22	FromGitter	<zetashift> I tried with 1.0.6 and devel
00:12:42	FromDiscord	<KingDarBoja> 1.0.6
00:14:28	FromGitter	<zetashift> So in my project I do have the `==` operator defined in another file
00:14:46	FromGitter	<zetashift> might that be an issue? I made that snippet to repro my error
00:15:39	Yardanico	and is Matrix defined in the same file too?
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00:35:19	FromDiscord	<Spy653> Hey do you guys mind if I post a survey I've made? It's about what techies think of IoT products (examples in the survey)
00:35:48	Yardanico	it's better if you would post it on the forum, this is a real-time chat after all :)
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00:38:26	FromDiscord	<Spy653> I'm throwing it around some discord servers
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00:43:26	Yardanico	well that's not the best way, it's better to post it on relevant forums
00:46:44	FromDiscord	<Spy653> Fair, I'll throw it there when I can
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01:00:08	FromGitter	<zetashift> @Yardanico yeah Matrix is defined in the same file as the `==` but not in the same file as the test
01:00:34	Yardanico	well it even works for me even if I define matrix and == in a separate file
01:01:49	FromGitter	<zetashift> Yea, I have an overloaded func of submatrix that takes no parameter and that works fine
01:02:02	FromGitter	<zetashift> but I have no idea why this one gives me the type mismatch error
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01:18:53	FromGitter	<zetashift> https://github.com/zetashift/naytracer here is my full project
01:19:09	FromGitter	<zetashift> I'm also calling it night, too tired to look at this ;__;. Good night y'all
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01:36:17	disruptek	fucking alcoholic family members are going to kill us all because they cannot get their drugs delivered like the rest of us.
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01:41:25	FromDiscord	<KingDarBoja> Whaaat
01:42:59	disruptek	irl intensifies
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01:46:12	disruptek	might have to handcuff some bitches to the radiator.
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03:38:01	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> oh noes
03:38:01	FromDiscord	<Yardanico> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/371759389889003532/692940466315984946/2020-03-27-06-37-39_grim.png
03:38:22	FromGitter	<Knaque> I made a CLI that makes it a bit easier to host a home Git server: https://github.com/Knaque/prigit/
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03:52:19	FromDiscord	<Benumbed> Problem solved
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04:25:50	Yardanico	!last shashlick
04:25:51	disbot	shashlick spoke in 12#nim 29 hours ago
04:27:14	Yardanico	shashlick: you around? just wanted to ask a question about nimterop - what if it errors on a header while doing cImport (with recurse=true) if that header imports other ones like "vlc/libvlc.h" even if they're in same dir? I wanted to make a libvlc wrapper so I wrote some code but it errors because of this https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2fDd
04:28:10	Yardanico	well I guess it would work if I cImport every header separately
04:29:02	shashlick	Sup
04:29:23	Yardanico	i've never used nimterop before so I'm really stupid with it :P
04:30:03	shashlick	No worries
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04:30:13	shashlick	You need to set the include directory correctly
04:31:05	shashlick	I don't remember if it gets set automatically with search dir
04:31:16	Yardanico	oh yeah cIncludeDir(baseDir / "include") worked
04:31:36	Yardanico	now I get tons of errors but that's expected :P
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04:31:55	Yardanico	but it processes all header files at least
04:32:05	shashlick	Cool ya
04:32:19	shashlick	I thought someone else had worked on vlc before
04:32:33	Yardanico	yeah, I thought the same, but found no repos
04:35:19	Yardanico	shashlick: is it ok if I got a sigsegv? :P
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04:35:42	Yardanico	https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2fDe
04:35:45	shashlick	I don't think anyone likes those 😄
04:36:38	shashlick	What's the crash
04:37:03	Yardanico	No stack traceback available
04:37:03	Yardanico	SIGSEGV: Illegal storage access. (Attempt to read from nil?) [AssertionError]
04:37:16	Yardanico	after it inputs some generated nim code on the stdout
04:37:32	shashlick	Ugh toast is crashing but it's unclear why
04:38:04	shashlick	Can you recompile toast?
04:38:20	Yardanico	yeah, I can try
04:38:44	shashlick	I've seen this before and tried to compile with debug but couldn't reproduce again
04:39:46	Yardanico	do I just need to compile toast.nim from nimterop and put it in PATH so nimterop picks it?
04:40:45	Yardanico	ah nvm found toastExePath so I can edit it real quick
04:40:55	shashlick	https://github.com/genotrance/nimarchive/issues/10
04:40:56	disbot	➥ SIGSEGV Nim 1.2+
04:41:06	Yardanico	yeah I have devel too
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04:41:57	shashlick	I discussed this with Juan on telegram few days ago
04:42:11	shashlick	Will be great if you can get a stack trace
04:42:27	Yardanico	wair it doesn't sigsegv with a binary compiled manually
04:42:31	Yardanico	either in debug or -d:release
04:42:40	shashlick	I couldn't get it to print one and it worked fine in gdb as well
04:42:43	Yardanico	the one built by nimterop does
04:42:52	Yardanico	(when it builds toast automatically on installing)
04:43:25	Yardanico	I just tried reinstalling it and it doesn't sigsegv either :D
04:43:26	shashlick	You're able to recreate the crash?
04:43:46	shashlick	Exactly what I saw
04:43:57	Yardanico	maybe a codegen/gc issue then?
04:44:09	Yardanico	if the same code works or doesn't work sometimes
04:44:17	shashlick	Could be but how to report such an issue
04:44:56	shashlick	Nimterop is tested with devel in the CI
04:45:12	Yardanico	yeah, IDK how to reproduce it now, after recompiling toast binary it just disappeared
04:45:59	shashlick	4raq's fault :)
04:46:15	Yardanico	btw, why don't the generated nim files pick my "dynvlc" thing?
04:46:23	Yardanico	nimterop puts them all in "failed" cache dir
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04:47:38	shashlick	That's cause the generated code has errors or missing symbols
04:48:31	shashlick	dynvlc will be set as a pragma but it's only defined in your wrapper
04:49:32	Yardanico	seems like there's a lot of code like "media_discoverer_lan* = 1.media_discoverer_category_t"
04:49:57	Yardanico	but nim doesn't like it, guess the enum didn't get generated
04:50:08	Yardanico	ah hmm "defineEnum(media_discoverer_category_t)"
04:50:11	shashlick	Those are enums remapped to distinct int
04:50:42	shashlick	Since c enums can be out of order or have duplicates
04:50:51	Yardanico	yeah, I know
04:51:02	Yardanico	guess that it all fails coz of some syntax error at the beginning on the file :P
04:52:41	shashlick	What's the actual error
04:52:59	Yardanico	a ton of errors from nim check
04:53:06	Yardanico	it fails for every enum member in all enums
04:53:20	Yardanico	ah, I guess it all starts because of "'r' << 16* = 1.teletext_key_t"
04:53:26	Yardanico	that's of course not corrent Nim syntax :))
04:53:45	Yardanico	this enum https://git.videolan.org/?p=vlc.git;a=blob;f=include/vlc/libvlc_media_player.h;h=5e0255a10ac84c449a15e6e3eb2fba2123dd035c;hb=HEAD#l154
04:54:20	Yardanico	wait why does it try to assign the enum value (?) to itself or something
04:55:01	Yardanico	that's how the whole file looks and where it starts - https://gist.github.com/Yardanico/0af5164651914ab17d37daa49af0af41#file-libvlc-nim-L452
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04:56:04	shashlick	You might want to cOverride that and hand wrap it instead
04:56:16	Yardanico	yeah, I understand that
04:56:18	shashlick	And report it :)
04:56:41	Yardanico	so I just do cOverride and define this values manually or what?
04:56:50	Yardanico	so it doesn't generate enum values for this enum
04:57:40	shashlick	Ya
04:59:10	shashlick	If you don't need that enum you could hear cSkipSymbol for now
04:59:21	shashlick	But it might be used by some other proc
04:59:47	shashlick	People do such crazy things with c
05:08:03	Yardanico	shashlick: so I do it like cSkipSymbol(@["libvlc_teletext_key_t"]) ?
05:08:12	Yardanico	because for some reason it's still in generated Nim code
05:12:20	Yardanico	it seems that most of the wrapper generated successfully, there's an issue with this enum, vlc_log_t, video_setup_device_info_t and video_output_cfg_t
05:12:27	Yardanico	if I remove all procs/types which use these nim check passes
05:16:14	shashlick	What's with those enums
05:16:37	Yardanico	well, how can I skip that enum for now? I mean I understand how to rewrite it, but how to say to nimterop to skip it
05:16:54	Yardanico	I've even tried using cSkipSymbol and put names of all members and enum itself, both with and without the libvlc_ prefix
05:18:01	shashlick	Do you run with -f
05:18:11	shashlick	Cause it might be caching stuff
05:18:18	Yardanico	yeah
05:19:16	shashlick	It should be skipping it, I don't see why not
05:19:39	Yardanico	i've tried with putting all the possible names https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2fDo
05:19:57	shashlick	Run the toast command with -d
05:20:28	shashlick	Put rmFile under static
05:20:37	Yardanico	it doesn't work there for some reason
05:21:25	shashlick	Also cSkipSymbol since it is a proc
05:22:00	Yardanico	under static too?
05:22:33	shashlick	Yep
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05:35:18	Yardanico	shashlick: well, how I can remove 1 line from the header then? I don't really need that deprecated.h, but vlc.h includes it
05:35:44	Yardanico	I figured out it removes that file successfully, but then toast fails because vlc.h includes deprecated.h
05:36:10	Yardanico	well actually I guess it's mostly ok
05:38:48	Yardanico	wait, so I just use the code that this program outputs?
05:38:55	Yardanico	I mean it outputs some generated wrapper
05:39:12	Yardanico	can't I make it output to a file?
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05:46:50	shashlick	You can redirect and save the output
05:47:16	Yardanico	well seems like one file in libvlc folder references a type which is not related to vlc but a part of vlc (include file)
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05:47:38	shashlick	You'd have to edit the header before processing to remove deprecated
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05:48:18	shashlick	You can also simply import this wrapper in your code and it will generate only the first time
05:48:33	Yardanico	can I cImport multiple files somehow?
05:48:37	shashlick	After that it is cached so is fast
05:48:53	shashlick	Sure just call it multiple times
05:49:21	Yardanico	so I don't understand, nimterop will create actual wrapper files only if it finds no issues with nim check?
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05:49:25	shashlick	Call that header before vlc
05:49:59	shashlick	Well when you cimport, it runs parseStmt on the code
05:50:14	shashlick	If the wrapper is bad, it will fail compile
05:50:28	Yardanico	well seems like it just straight up skipped the struct I needed :P
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05:50:46	Yardanico	it's this one https://git.videolan.org/?p=vlc.git;a=blob;f=include/vlc_messages.h;h=b6d5843985dccfad5d24a6d7ae1e4a4728023ccd;hb=HEAD#l55
05:50:46	shashlick	But the error isn't useful to debug so we write the file and run Nim check so that we get a useful error
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05:51:38	shashlick	Probably those comments throwing it off
05:51:44	Yardanico	ah nvm it's my own fault
05:51:49	shashlick	Whew
05:52:07	Yardanico	I wanted to ignore it at first but then added vlc_messages.h and forgot to remove them from ignored ones
05:52:15	shashlick	Ok cool
05:52:54	Yardanico	seems like it actually generated that object now
05:52:58	Yardanico	well I mean struct
05:53:03	shashlick	Neat
05:54:03	Yardanico	uh-oh, can nimterop handle this struct? https://git.videolan.org/?p=vlc.git;a=blob;f=include/vlc/libvlc_media_player.h;h=5e0255a10ac84c449a15e6e3eb2fba2123dd035c;hb=HEAD#l511
05:54:13	Yardanico	it's a union struct with structs (???)
05:54:31	shashlick	Nope it cannot do nested stuff
05:54:40	shashlick	Am working on that for ast2
05:54:55	shashlick	Best to c2nim just that and cOverride
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06:02:54	Yardanico	shashlick: so how do I actually try again after changing code in the wrapper generator? add -f to nim compiler? it doesn't seem to work
06:03:13	Yardanico	ah nvm it works I think
06:03:31	Yardanico	so another question - what to do if there's a type on cOverrides which uses an enum defined in one of the headers?
06:04:36	shashlick	It should get inserted in place
06:05:04	shashlick	In context
06:05:31	Yardanico	well it seems like if I have 3 cImports, it gets included into all of them, and already fails with the first one
06:05:42	Yardanico	but that enum is defined in the second header (so in the second cImport call)
06:06:29	shashlick	Make sure the cOverride is added after you import those files
06:06:34	Yardanico	oh
06:07:13	Yardanico	it ran with no issues!!!! now where are my files? :P
06:08:07	shashlick	Awesome!
06:08:36	shashlick	How big is this wrapper output
06:08:41	shashlick	Vlc must be huge
06:08:47	Yardanico	nah it's not the entire vlc
06:08:57	Yardanico	it's libvlc
06:09:20	Yardanico	wait lemme actually make sure it's not failing on something
06:09:41	Yardanico	yeah doesn't seem so
06:09:46	Yardanico	now how can I get the files it made?
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06:11:42	shashlick	Like I said, either import this wrapper in your code
06:11:49	Yardanico	ah yeah sorry
06:11:57	shashlick	Or redirect output to file
06:12:37	shashlick	And turn off cDebug if the output is too verbose
06:13:14	shashlick	Also look at the docs capability if you want to generate html docs
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06:14:28	shashlick	https://nimterop.github.io/nimterop/docs.html
06:15:53	shashlick	https://github.com/genotrance/nimarchive/blob/master/nimarchive.nimble#L17
06:16:25	Yardanico	well, first of all I need to figure out if it works :P
06:16:32	Yardanico	I initially wanted to use it together with gintro
06:16:48	shashlick	Agreed
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06:19:22	hoffentlichja	How does nimble solve package version conflicts?
06:19:24	Yardanico	ok let's try playing a song
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06:25:12	Yardanico	it works!!!!
06:25:14	Yardanico	amazing
06:26:09	Yardanico	i thought it would be much harder than just *that*
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06:43:43	Yardanico	shashlick: again thanks a lot :) https://github.com/Yardanico/nim-libvlc
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06:52:54	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Araq: I really don't think byaddr should be in Nim. It complicates an already tricky memory situation, especially since the move/copy/borrow stuff is still progressing.
06:53:28	leorize	+ it's not even documented :P
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07:01:31	FromDiscord	<Varriount> leorize: And actually, it's not even memory safe in it's current form: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/lib/std/pragmas.nim
07:01:39	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Of course, the documentation doesn't say that
07:02:00	FromDiscord	<Varriount> I don't see what advantage it has compared to just using `addr`
07:03:56	FromDiscord	<Varriount> And yes, I know that you have to import it to use it, but that doesn't mean it should be in the standard library
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07:32:26	leorize	the only good thing that come out of it is that we got proper custom pragma support for variables
07:33:34	FromDiscord	<Varriount> leorize: I did notice that.
07:34:33	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Right now I'm mostly against new additions to the standard library, unless they really implement functionality that can't already be reasonably achieved using existing language/library functionality.
07:36:29	FromDiscord	<Varriount> To be blunt, many parts of the standard library are a mess, because various people have built onto the modules without any greater plan for what the api should be.
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08:12:31	Araq	Varriount: it's opt-in though and fills a void
08:13:05	Araq	and the borrow checking is coming sooner rather than later, other already existing parts of the languae require it
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08:30:46	Araq	and it's always easy to meta-critic anything (the stdlib has no great plan and is a mess)
08:31:20	Araq	maybe it doesn't need a great plan though.
08:32:38	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Araq: Perhaps not as a whole, but there are plenty of modules that don't really have a clean or well thought out interface.
08:33:14	FromDiscord	<Varriount> A prime example are the DB modules that always return result values as strings
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08:35:32	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Or the two regex modules
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08:36:50	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Or strmisc and wordwrap
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08:40:52	FromDiscord	<Varriount> (I could go on)
08:44:00	FromDiscord	<Varriount> And while every standard library has its share of warts, Nim has a far higher relative wart occurrence
08:55:46	FromDiscord	<Rika> the regex ones are just "wrapper vs higher level version" `pcre` vs `re` isnt it?
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08:56:45	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Somewhat, but they also have vastly different API styles
08:57:02	FromDiscord	<Varriount> And it's re vs nre
09:00:52	FromDiscord	<Rika> i see
09:01:59	FromDiscord	<Rika> ah so if its re vs nre its more of "theres basically no difference in functionality"
09:05:25	lqdev[m]	not to mention weird naming like `flushFile` vs `open`, `setPosition` and `getPosition`, and so on
09:06:14	lqdev[m]	too bad we can't change those.
09:07:54	FromDiscord	<Rika> `setPosition` in streams, `setFilePos` in io
09:08:08	FromDiscord	<Rika> `flush` in streams, `flushFile` in io
09:08:23	FromDiscord	<Rika> basically: just import streams and use that instead 😛
09:11:50	lqdev[m]	but `seek` and `position` are better names for `setPosition` and `getPosition` respectively
09:12:38	lqdev[m]	even so, the stdlib naming guidelines discourage the use of `get`/`set` prefixes in favor of getter and setter syntax
09:17:25	FromDiscord	<Rika> oh man, i used to always type `seek` instead of `setposition`
09:17:40	FromDiscord	<Rika> also anything with the `get` prefix should have it removed no?
09:18:11	FromDiscord	<Rika> also i'm not sure about `setPosition` being replaced with `position=`
09:25:35	PMunch	I agree, the stdlib is a bit wonky in places
09:26:10	PMunch	Don't get me wrong, it's great, lots of things supported out of the box, but as you mention there are some weird discrepancies in naming and interfaces.
09:26:27	PMunch	Sometimes getting something from one module and passing it to another can also be super inconvenient..
09:26:38	PMunch	I guess we should write a nonstandard library :P
09:27:09	FromDiscord	<Rika> a standard nonstandard library let's call it
09:27:28	FromDiscord	<Rika> perhaps a standardized nonstandard library is more accurate of a name
09:29:04	FromDiscord	<Varriount> PMunch: I'm currently attempting to port various modules from other stdlibs. Go's is quite nice, though a bit anemic in some areas
09:31:02	FromDiscord	<Varriount> We will see how that goes
09:33:08	FromDiscord	<Rika> you got a repo for that?
09:33:23	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Not yet
09:33:28	FromDiscord	<Rika> i wanna see it and maybe report possible mistakes
09:35:44	PMunch	Well I guess it's easier to write a cohesive stdlib if it is a bit sparse :P
09:35:56	PMunch	Means there is less places you can mess up at least
09:35:56	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Rika: I started from the bottom up, function by function. Line 323 is where I've stopped for now.
09:36:36	FromDiscord	<Rika> incomplete code is code, code doesnt have to be buildable to be pushable 😛
09:39:47	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Rika: I might take some inspiration from Python's pathlib, but in my opinion it does slightly too much for my taste - https://docs.python.org/3/library/pathlib.html
09:40:11	FromDiscord	<Rika> i love pathlib
09:40:12	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Primarily the filesystem operations.
09:40:29	Demos[m]	Check out c++'s std::filesystem::path, it also takes insparation from pathlib but is a little more focused on just paths
09:40:30	FromDiscord	<Rika> the FS ones are a bit weird i think too
09:40:40	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Demos: Thanks, I will
09:40:53	FromDiscord	<Rika> but there's already `os` though, any issues with os?
09:41:13	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Rika: Nothing in particular. I just want to do this.
09:41:21	FromDiscord	<Rika> ah i see that's fine
09:41:50	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Demos: I'll admit I had discounted C++ - I assumed that any path API would be too foreign to take any ideas from
09:41:56	Demos[m]	nope!
09:42:10	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Rika: I like pathlib too, although it's a pain when you end up passing a Path object to a function expecting a string path.
09:42:16	Demos[m]	tbqh c++ is pretty close to nim semantically
09:44:08	FromDiscord	<Rika> just `converter toSt`-- well python wouldnt have this but if pathlib were a nim module i'd do this in a heartbeat
09:45:34	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Eh, you would still have problems if, say, you passed a sequence of Path types to a function expecting a sequence of string paths.
09:47:06	FromDiscord	<Rika> another `converter toOAString[S: openarray](sq: S[Path]): S[string]` or something or so
09:47:20	FromDiscord	<Rika> i dont think that'd work but you get my idea
09:47:34	FromDiscord	<Rika> ahaha, its gonna be a pain yes'
09:47:37	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Yeah, but what about other containers? Or a sequence of sequence of strings
09:48:01	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Converters are tempting, though, I'll admit
09:50:01	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Demos: It's been a while since I've heard from you - are you in a different time zone or something?
09:50:14	Demos[m]	nah just busy, new job and all
09:50:16	Demos[m]	less time for nim
09:50:26	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Don't I know it. :<
09:50:27	Demos[m]	well less busy now
09:50:29	Demos[m]	what with covid-19
09:50:45	Demos[m]	I am in a different timezone though, moved to washington
09:50:54	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Ah, that would explain it.
09:51:18	FromDiscord	<Varriount> My sleep schedule has lost all sense of normalcy without the constraint of appointments, etc.
09:51:27	Demos[m]	same
09:51:33	Demos[m]	and apperently same for my entire team :D
09:51:47	Demos[m]	it's 3AM here....
09:54:39	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Nearly 6 AM here
09:55:21	Demos[m]	that almost reasonable
09:56:03	FromDiscord	<Varriount> It might be, if I hadn't woken up at 3:00 yesterday.
09:56:05	PMunch	Depends, is it 6AM because you got up, or 6AM because you haven't gone to bed..
09:56:24	Demos[m]	heh
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09:57:00	PMunch	I at least have video meetings and such still, otherwise my sleep cycle would be completely out of wack as well
09:57:23	PMunch	Last time I was left to myself for an extended period of time my cycle drifted 12 hours in about two-three weeks
09:57:34	Demos[m]	yeah we've been less and less productive as this has gone on
09:57:36	PMunch	So I got up at 8PM and went to bed around 11-12AM
09:57:52	PMunch	That was, strange
09:58:24	Demos[m]	my problem is I start playing Kerbal Space Program and forget to take my sleepy meds
09:58:52	PMunch	And super inconvenient if I wanted to grab some beers with friends. Basically getting up, having breakfast and then head to a bar. Get home from the bar and realise it's mid-day for me, so now I'm jut going to be drunk for the rest of the day..
09:59:12	PMunch	That game is so much fun!
09:59:17	Demos[m]	you can still go to bars?
09:59:42	PMunch	Nah, this was last time I was without any schedule restrictions
09:59:55	PMunch	When I was studying and my GF was out of town
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10:17:48	PMunch	nim dump?
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10:18:41	FromGitter	<Vindaar> I remember there was one which just echoed the paths it checked at runtime
10:19:28	FromDiscord	<Varriount> Verbosity maybe?
10:21:42	FromGitter	<Vindaar> nope :/
10:24:49	FromGitter	<Vindaar> well, figured it out without it. I was confused, because I was just testing ggplotnim on windows. And I was sure to get the same "could not load libcairo2.dll" error @Lecale got the other day (and I got a few weeks ago). ⏎ But the thing is, by installing emacs on windows and adding its `bin` dir to PATH I also installed cairo, since emacs on windows uses GTK
10:37:37	Araq	> A prime example are the DB modules that always return result values as strings
10:37:56	Araq	no, it's a prime example for ranting about what you don't understand.
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10:38:44	Araq	and what's wrong with 'wordwrap' anyway
10:39:26	FromDiscord	<Rika> i think the DB modules are fine
10:39:43	FromDiscord	<Rika> ive never used wordwrap but i think they think its an issue because its tiny
10:40:08	Araq	nre was an external contribution and it shows
10:42:01	PMunch	til wordwrap
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10:43:41	Araq	so instead of 'nre' it should have been left in a Nimble package and then others can import nre and the same API differences would exist and in everyday life nothing whatsoever would change
10:44:54	Araq	but you couldn't complain about it *shrug*
10:49:40	Araq	> but `seek` and `position` are better names for `setPosition` and `getPosition` respectively
10:49:44	Araq	I don't agree
10:50:11	FromDiscord	<Rika> why so for the 2nd one?
10:50:52	Araq	'seek' doesn't "seek" (= search) for anything whatsoever, the name is bullshit
10:51:31	FromDiscord	<Rika> that makes sense yeah
10:51:33	FromDiscord	<Rika> but the position one?
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10:58:57	Araq	getPosition was chosen but its cost is unclear, could be an expensive syscall (unlikely though)
10:59:06	Araq	same for setPosition
11:00:19	Araq	setPosition vs setFilePos is a valid complaint but it's nitpicking
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11:25:26	defection	Question, I'm using the terminal module to make a simple little TUI app, is there a nicer way to clear all of the junk in scrollback rather than using `stdout.write("\e[3J")`
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11:40:46	FromDiscord	<Rika> that makes me feel like making an ansicodes module or something
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11:50:38	defection	That would be cool, have the possibility of merging some of that into the terminal module too considering there's some common escape sequences in there already.
11:54:51	FromDiscord	<Rika> well the issue of having an ansicodes library is that i either > only handle output ansicodes or > i require raw mode to handle input ansi codes too or something
11:54:58	FromDiscord	<Rika> i dont think thats a big issue actually
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12:13:36	Araq	defection, there is only eraseScreen
12:13:49	Araq	and in general terminal.nim only offers what is portable
12:14:30	Araq	for posix specific stuff there is also termios.nim
12:15:39	defection	Fair enough, I don't know all of the intricacies of terminals/ANSI stuff :P
12:15:59	defection	Nice, I'll have to take a look!
12:17:36	Araq	speaking of which, 'nimble init' is broken on Windows with its terminal based UI
12:18:48	FromGitter	<zetashift> what's broken on it?
12:19:39	FromGitter	<zetashift> seems to work fine for me, using Windows 10
12:19:55	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> for me it also seems finew
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12:25:03	Araq	run it inside VSCode
12:26:47	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> it also seems to work
12:27:11	Araq	never mind then, for me it didn't
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12:38:28	PMunch	defection https://nim-lang.org/docs/terminal.html#eraseScreen.t
12:39:12	PMunch	Oh sorry, didn't see that others had answered you already
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12:50:58	FromGitter	<alehander92> guys, what do you think about `nimtrace program.nim` which compiles a program with `-d:nimtrace` and just prints out callgraph in real time
12:51:11	FromGitter	<alehander92> similar to way `strace program` works for syscalls
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13:08:14	krux02	hard to say. Usability highly on the quality of the implementation.
13:08:33	krux02	also you should explore existing tracers for c++, how much does it apply to Nim as well
13:09:36	Araq	alehander92: is your zero-functional currently broken or is it my PR...
13:16:42	FromGitter	<alehander92> sorry!
13:17:06	FromGitter	<alehander92> krux02 you're right, i work on something like that in my work, but i admit i havent analyzed enough c/c++ solutions
13:17:52	FromGitter	<alehander92> the fastest way i've done it until now is by producing a minimal binary trace which is later postprocessed to a more analyzeable callgraph
13:18:24	FromGitter	<alehander92> but i admit this can be also be maybe doable with `-finstrument`* family of gcc/clang(?) + some objdump info
13:18:59	FromGitter	<alehander92> however i am not sure how easy is to collect sensible info for args this way : i was more playing with the idea of more naive prettyprinting high level hook
13:19:14	FromGitter	<alehander92> for smaller/mid programs quick introspection
13:19:24	FromGitter	<alehander92> Araq hm sorry, have to look at it
13:20:38	FromGitter	<alehander92> https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/13776/checks?check_run_id=539189372 ?
13:20:39	disbot	➥ '.push raises: []' now also affects proc types
13:22:35	FromGitter	<alehander92> honestly sorry, havent looked at it lately no idea
13:25:04	FromGitter	<alehander92> ugh i pressed re-run, can i like cancel it
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13:26:07	FromGitter	<alehander92> what i dont understand is how can it fail only on windows, if its a type error issue
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13:30:31	PMunch	alehander92: `when defined(windows)`
13:37:31	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> can somebody from irc or gitter or other try to @ everyone and see if it works in discord?
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13:37:53	FromDiscord	<Rika> i doubt it doed
13:37:54	FromGitter	<alehander92> sorry
13:37:54	FromDiscord	<Rika> does
13:38:06	FromGitter	<alehander92> i cant think of an obvious when defined(windows)
13:38:22	FromGitter	<alehander92> recruit this can annoy a lot of people :)
13:38:29	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> personal @s dont woek because we have an special number after the name, but everyone doesnt.
13:38:50	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> alehander92: its in the name of science
13:38:51	FromDiscord	<Rika> the bot probably does sanitizing nonetheless
13:38:54	aEverr	<@259277943275126785>
13:38:59	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> wow
13:39:01	FromDiscord	<Rika> i see
13:39:08	aEverr	<@386230567571554305>
13:39:14	aEverr	muahahaha
13:39:20	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> is this your alt?
13:39:23	FromDiscord	<Rika> no
13:39:23	aEverr	no
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13:39:35	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> are you copying the number?
13:39:40	aEverr	no
13:39:41	FromDiscord	<Rika> no
13:39:45	FromDiscord	<Rika> (i am)
13:39:53	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> it works out of the box? wow
13:40:12	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> this is new right?
13:40:44	FromDiscord	<Rika> i am copyinh the number pls
13:40:53	FromDiscord	<Rika> right click copy id then <@number>
13:40:55	FromDiscord	<Rika> lmao 😛
13:41:10	aEverr	i'm hesitant on trying an everyone ping though
13:41:15	aEverr	for good reasons
13:41:18	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> https://tenor.com/view/not-funny-didnt-laugh-not-funny-didnt-laugh-dancing-money-dance-gif-14496446
13:41:52	aEverr	cant see gifs on my irc client lol
13:42:21	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> well, we could ping everyone for nim updates and such
13:42:50	aEverr	i really wanna try it but also i dont want to fucking die
13:47:40	Araq	alehander92: well if you didn't touch it it must be my PR
13:47:52	FromGitter	<alehander92> guys you can test it in nim-offtopic
13:47:56	FromGitter	<alehander92> if its connected to discord
13:48:10	FromDiscord	<Rika> we uh did
13:48:13	FromGitter	<alehander92> and nim-lang/twitch on gitter
13:48:13	FromDiscord	<Rika> uh
13:48:15	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> yep, we already have awaken discord offtopic XD
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13:48:30	FromDiscord	<Rika> uh yeah we've prolly incurred the wrath of literally everyone on the discord server
13:48:49	FromDiscord	<Simula> anyone have experience with the posix module? how do i use `getgrname`?
13:48:50	liblq-dev	quite literally
13:49:05	FromDiscord	<Simula> no matter what i pass it, i get a null pointer in return
13:49:31	FromGitter	<alehander92> and gitter
13:50:00	FromGitter	<alehander92> Araq well, i am not sure but https://github.com/zero-functional/zero-functional/commits/master last commit is from february
13:50:12	FromGitter	<alehander92> sorry for re-running the ci again
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13:55:34	FromDiscord	<Simula> oh i'm using the api wrong
13:58:04	FromDiscord	<Simula> aaaaaand i found a compiler bug
13:58:13	FromDiscord	<Rika> ? what happened
13:58:25	FromDiscord	<Simula> `stat` from posix_utils is broken
13:58:53	FromGitter	<alehander92> thats maybe a stdlib bug
13:59:24	Araq	so ... how does 'ensures' work
13:59:38	FromDiscord	<Simula> https://pastebin.com/cgc6QAU6
14:01:14	Araq	SImula: that's a stdlib/OS combination problem, not a compiler bug
14:01:14	FromDiscord	<Simula> aaaaaand i can't get a minimal example to fail
14:01:36	FromDiscord	<Simula> oh fun
14:02:09	FromDiscord	<Simula> ah, it looks like the `$` is just broken for the Stat type
14:02:41	Araq	sure continue to claim nonsense, in reality Stat's very definition is broken
14:02:53	Araq	for your OS
14:03:12	FromDiscord	<Rika> what os are you on
14:03:30	Araq	ZergLinux
14:03:32	FromDiscord	<Simula> im not claiming nonsense lmao, using it properly works fine
14:03:34	FromDiscord	<Simula> fedora 31
14:03:47	FromDiscord	<Simula> as long as you don't try `$mystat` it works
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14:28:57	FromGitter	<alehander92> is it a valid strategy to
14:29:15	FromGitter	<alehander92> discard async futures on purpose in test code
14:29:30	FromGitter	<alehander92> to test that internal logic deals with some possible logic races
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14:35:20	krux02	Simula: can you try to just delete the filed pad0 and reserved from the definition of Stat?
14:35:48	krux02	as far as I can tell right now, they are not used and don't serve any purpose.
14:37:03	krux02	Araq: can you please stop insulting people who report problems in Nim?
14:37:36	krux02	It is not job of people to correctly categorize a bug in Nim.
14:38:12	PMunch	alehander42, why would you do that?
14:38:23	Araq	krux02: I'm not aware I insulted anybody, I did categorize the bug for the OP
14:40:58	FromGitter	<alehander92> PMunch well, because my ui can generate events in a bit random order so two operations might happen in a bit interleaving way
14:41:19	PMunch	Araq, Simula, pretty sure it's this error you're seeing: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/12655
14:41:19	FromDiscord	<Simula> it's not the first time you've gotten aggressive because someone was harmlessly wrong
14:41:20	FromGitter	<alehander92> so i want my cli test runner to simulate that, but asyncCheck is probably what i want yeah :D
14:41:20	disbot	➥ Fix issue with fields trying to use wrong name ; snippet at 12https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2aYc
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14:42:00	PMunch	I don't think he's aggressive, just a limitation of the text medium :P
14:42:09	krux02	Araq: Here you did isult: "sure continue to claim nonsense,"
14:42:34	Araq	I didn't.
14:42:39	PMunch	alehander42, yeah asyncCheck essentially just adds a callback that will raise the error
14:43:08	PMunch	Hi didn't insult him, an insult would be "sure you idiot, continue to claim nonsense"
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14:43:59	FromDiscord	<Simula> the thing is, i wasn't claiming nonsense
14:44:06	FromDiscord	<Simula> i was wrong at first and corrected myself
14:44:08	PMunch	Well, it wasn't a compiler bug
14:44:21	PMunch	So it was nonsense, just not maliciously so
14:44:22	FromDiscord	<Simula> and i corrected myself
14:44:33	Araq	it's neither a compiler bug nor a $ bug
14:44:39	PMunch	It's not $ that's broken either
14:44:50	FromDiscord	<Simula> and yet, trying to use $ on a Stat is bhroken
14:44:54	PMunch	It's the Stat type that incorrectly imports fields from the C definition
14:45:10	PMunch	Yes, because it tries to access the field pad0 which doesn't exists
14:45:17	PMunch	As the field is called __pad0
14:45:24	FromGitter	<alehander92> i think its just a language thing maybe
14:45:37	Araq	Simula: I'm sorry anyway, but no offense was implied
14:45:49	FromDiscord	<Simula> thank you, i appreciate it
14:45:59	PMunch	If you look at the PR I linked you will see that there is an issue with some of the posix parts where this is the case, but I haven't found a good way to detect them all..
14:46:17	FromGitter	<alehander92> oh well i need to read stuff with nim-prompt, i just realized this is blocking my async loop
14:46:26	PMunch	Basically that field should be declared with {.importc: "__pad0".}
14:46:34	FromGitter	<alehander92> that explains why i saw it used in a thread iirc
14:46:39	FromGitter	<alehander92> ok todo for now
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14:48:34	krux02	PMunch: that field just needs to be deleted
14:48:56	krux02	that field is supposed to be private. That is the reason it stearts with __
14:48:57	PMunch	Nope, then Nim and C would disagree on the size of that struct
14:49:03	krux02	Nope
14:49:04	krux02	they won't
14:49:14	krux02	I implemented the sizeof calculation in Nim
14:49:27	krux02	and when a type is imported, it doesn't calculate the size on the size side.
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14:49:31	PMunch	Oh, so it actually takes that into consideration? Cool
14:49:36	krux02	yes
14:49:48	krux02	you should be able to safely delete it.
14:49:51	PMunch	I've just run into issues when I've declared a struct wrong
14:49:57	krux02	you could test it if you are not sure about it.
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14:50:17	krux02	can you open an issue about it? Then I can take a look into it.
14:50:20	PMunch	But those weren't imported, just declared as the same kind
14:50:31	PMunch	You can probably reuse my PR?
14:50:51	krux02	I don.t know how to reuse a PR, never did those git magic tricks.
14:51:03	krux02	can you link your issue?
14:51:06	krux02	PR?
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14:52:08	PMunch	And alehander92, I think you are right, it's probably a language thing. I'm from a place known for our rough language and cursing, so my bar for insults is probably a bit higher :P
14:52:30	PMunch	It's the one I linked a second ago #12655
14:52:32	disbot	https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/12655 -- 3Fix issue with fields trying to use wrong name ; snippet at 12https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2aYc
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14:53:40	FromGitter	<alehander92> PMunch well cursing is bad
14:53:53	FromGitter	<alehander92> i meant that nonsense might just mean "not reasonable/incorrect
14:54:07	FromGitter	<alehander92> " in some languages/cultures maybe, not so sure how it translates
14:55:07	PMunch	What do you mean "cursing is bad", it's part of our culture..
14:55:35	PMunch	To the point were insulting a policeman is legal where I'm from. Was a ruling on it a couple of years ago
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14:57:17	FromGitter	<sheerluck> I don't like when people quarrel https://bit.ly/33O0WOq
14:57:28	PMunch	Some drunken guy called a policeman a "jævla hestkuk" (common curse here, translates to something like a fucking horse cock) and was charged with insulting an officer. But the courts said that in northern Norway that isn't considered a curse and the guy was acquitted.
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15:00:26	krux02	PMunch, I just wrote a comment in your PR. I can't take it over. I am sorry. I have other things to do.
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15:33:42	FromGitter	<alehander92> well PMunch I believe you , but i still think its ugly
15:35:12	clyybber	Araq: What does #13778 do ?
15:35:13	disbot	https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/13778 -- 3new minor feature: macros for proc types, to be documented
15:35:49	clyybber	Is it related to pragma macros like {.async.}
15:35:51	clyybber	?
15:35:55	disruptek	lets us annotate for drnim.
15:36:22	clyybber	how does it look?
15:36:31	clyybber	or work?
15:36:44	disruptek	proc foo(x: int) {.requires: x > 0.}
15:36:56	clyybber	Oh, and that wasn't possible before?
15:37:07	clyybber	I thought the async macro did something like that?
15:37:25	disruptek	i think it's the syntax that needed doing.
15:39:32	disruptek	looks like it's mostly useful for type foo: proc ... {.requires.}
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15:45:13	FromGitter	<alehander92> ok so we can write
15:45:22	FromGitter	<alehander92> complexity in signatures
15:45:35	FromGitter	<alehander92> with that !
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15:52:08	Araq	clyybber: it's for 'async' proc types
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15:55:20	Araq	drnim doesn't need it because drnim simply introduces new pragmas :P
15:57:53	shashlick	Yardanico: nice work! can you please put tests in place and maybe a CI so that I can test ast2 and make sure stuff still works with it
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15:59:41	PMunch	Is DrNim the proof thingy?
16:01:57	Araq	yes
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16:14:01	FromGitter	<alehander92> Araq is there a reason
16:14:19	FromGitter	<alehander92> hm, `tags` is not picked up when `async` is used
16:14:29	FromGitter	<alehander92> is this somehow related to your fix
16:14:31	Araq	well it allows you to write 'type T = proc () {.async.}'
16:14:37	Araq	and previously you couldn't
16:14:43	FromGitter	<alehander92> ah sorry ok
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16:20:20	FromGitter	<pigmej> Hey guys
16:20:49	FromGitter	<pigmej> .choosenim/toolchains/nim-1.0.6/lib/impure/re.nim(77, 28) Error: VM is only allowed to 'cast' between integers and/or floats of same size
16:20:52	FromGitter	<pigmej> is that known?
16:21:18	FromGitter	<pigmej> unless I'm doing something very wrong with RE but ... I don't think so
16:27:28	leorize[m]	you're definitely doing something really wrong :p
16:28:16	clyybber	Araq: Ah, nice!
16:29:51	FromGitter	<alehander92> Araq so can i use
16:29:55	FromGitter	<alehander92> tags: [] with async
16:30:11	FromGitter	<alehander92> sorry, it just seems it doesnt get triggered in my program
16:31:13	FromDiscord	<Rika> pigmej what are you doing??
16:31:26	FromGitter	<pigmej> ok so that was clearly wtf
16:31:37	FromGitter	<pigmej> I just did `const foo = re"foo"`
16:31:40	FromGitter	<pigmej> and that raises that error
16:31:57	leorize[m]	you can't do that
16:31:59	leorize[m]	it's to be a `let`
16:32:29	clyybber	basically, re doesn't work at CT yet
16:32:48	leorize[m]	this is because re is just a high-level abstraction over libpcre
16:32:54	FromDiscord	<Rika> is nitely's regex CT compatible?
16:32:57	FromGitter	<pigmej> I know that I can't
16:33:03	FromGitter	<pigmej> but still the error is at least awkward
16:33:19	leorize[m]	@Rika: yes
16:33:25	FromDiscord	<Rika> noice
16:34:00	leorize[m]	@pigmej: well what caused the error should be fixed in 1.2
16:34:12	leorize[m]	since we get integer casting in VM now iirc
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16:40:22	clyybber	Araq: Is setLen supposed to zero out the memory?
16:41:18	Araq	I think so
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16:50:37	FromGitter	<alehander92> can i somehow
16:50:46	FromGitter	<alehander92> preserve a non closure reference to a procedure
16:50:48	FromGitter	<alehander92> in a field
16:52:03	FromGitter	<alehander92> nimcall ?
16:52:16	FromGitter	<alehander92> from older nim chats / github
16:52:53	Araq	system.rawEnv
16:58:47	FromGitter	<alehander92> so does nimcall check if something is a closure
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17:17:42	watzon	I have to say, nim has a pretty nice built in PEG parser https://nim-lang.org/docs/pegs.html
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17:34:03	disruptek	!repo npeg
17:34:04	disbot	https://github.com/zevv/npeg -- 9npeg: 11PEGs for Nim, another take 15 91⭐ 4🍴
17:35:23	disruptek	i guess i can't use dot operators in the compiler.
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17:52:10	FromGitter	<geotre> Is there anything in stdlib to convert camelCase to snake_case etc? "thisCase" -> "this_case" ?
17:52:17	disruptek	why?
17:52:30	Yardanico	nim has partial case insensitivity anyway
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17:52:37	Yardanico	thisCall() == this_call()
17:52:42	Yardanico	thisVar == this_var
17:52:45	FromGitter	<geotre> Interop with json APIs that use that for keys
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17:52:54	Yardanico	you don't have to really
17:53:06	Yardanico	you can just define fields in your object as snake_case and then use them as camelCase
17:53:17	FromGitter	<geotre> Yeah
17:53:30	FromGitter	<geotre> I just want to ideally write the nim obj defs using camel case
17:53:43	FromGitter	<geotre> Better for autocomplete etc
17:53:49	disruptek	go for it.
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17:54:18	disruptek	i have a sanitizer in openapi that you can adapt. search for sanitizer.
17:54:21	disruptek	!repo openapi
17:54:22	disbot	https://github.com/disruptek/openapi -- 9openapi: 11OpenAPI Code Generator for Nim 15 19⭐ 1🍴 7& 4 more...
17:54:43	FromGitter	<geotre> Nice one will have a look
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17:54:57	disruptek	it will convert any string into a valid nim identifier.
17:55:09	FromGitter	<geotre> Would be better if it was in stdlib so I could add something to the nim json module
17:55:34	FromGitter	<geotre> Ah that's not what I'm really looking for
17:55:36	disruptek	no such animal exists.
17:55:45	FromGitter	<geotre> Ok thanks
17:56:16	disruptek	i think you should look at my solution, first.
17:56:48	FromGitter	<geotre> I will have a look but it sounds like it's doing the opposite (i.e. snake_case -> camelCase)
17:57:01	disruptek	that's why you need to look at the code.
17:57:04	FromGitter	<geotre> https://github.com/disruptek/openapi/search?q=sanitizer&unscoped_q=sanitizer
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17:57:09	FromGitter	<geotre> No results
17:57:15	disruptek	it has all the levers that you want.
17:58:23	disruptek	see src/openapi/codegen.nim -- sanitizeIdentifier()
17:58:34	FromGitter	<geotre> Ok got it
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17:59:22	disruptek	just toggle elideUnder.
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18:00:41	lbart	what is the best way to create a type with a const field? example type myNewType = object data: t field = 123
18:00:58	Yardanico	there's no such a way
18:01:03	FromDiscord	<Rika> make it a normal const
18:01:06	FromDiscord	<Rika> outside the type
18:01:26	FromDiscord	<Rika> consts are a compile time construct, they no longer "exist" in run time
18:01:33	FromDiscord	<Rika> imagine them as template variables
18:03:22	lbart	ok thanks
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18:09:29	ksandvik	Generic question, would using const for all cases we know will never change be performance-wise better (compiled away) than let? Or it just looks bad?
18:09:47	Yardanico	well it'll be a bit better
18:10:05	Yardanico	since you will set it at compile-time, and at runtime it will just *be there*
18:10:18	Yardanico	you wouldn't spend time at runtime calculating that value
18:10:24	ksandvik	I'm all in for as much as possible compile-time away coding.
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18:11:17	Yardanico	don't overdo it pls :P
18:11:27	FromDiscord	<Rika> let is just an "immutable" RT var
18:11:33	FromDiscord	<Rika> why? whats wrong with overdoing it?
18:11:34	Yardanico	because then you have programs which do everything at compile-time and then nothing at runtime
18:11:44	Yardanico	dont abuse compiletime xd
18:11:44	disruptek	sounds good to me.
18:11:49	FromDiscord	<Rika> is that an issue?
18:12:01	disruptek	only for Yardanico.
18:12:22	FromDiscord	<Rika> yardanico prolly got scarred by the mainly compile time discord library
18:12:24	ksandvik	With large apps there's always some time needed to initialize the runtime. If that's compiled away then the better.
18:14:40	ksandvik	Small to medum ones, does not really matter.
18:17:28	ksandvik	I should read the manual but does Nim have a similar concept as constexpr in C++?
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18:17:51	ksandvik	We use that a lot in large systems to build compile time constants from defined functions.
18:18:03	Yardanico	I think nim compiler automatically figures out if something can be computed at compile-time
18:19:26	ksandvik	Are macros compile time expresions, that would then do the same thing?
18:22:52	leorize	anything when put in a compile-time context will be run at compile time
18:23:03	krux02	ksandvik, computations at compile time are generally slow as they are computed on a vm similar to a python like VM.
18:23:16	krux02	runtime is much better at computation.
18:23:25	leorize	4raq benchmarks show that Nim VM is faster than python :P
18:23:32	leorize	yea, but it's still slow :P
18:23:37	ksandvik	That is fine with fast computers, I rather take the hit then than for customers running the app.
18:24:17	krux02	After what really matters is turnaround time. And if you can pick for your initialization to run at compilte time or at startup time of the program. You should pick startup time
18:24:25	krux02	because it is faster.
18:24:49	ksandvik	Well, I rather code for users than for myself.
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18:25:05	krux02	both is important.
18:25:18	krux02	But during development, you are the most important user of your application.
18:25:42	krux02	don't underestimate that.
18:25:45	ksandvik	I'm talking about large scale programs, though, similar to Final cut Pro X and so on, where every millisecond counts. For these small command line tools and so on, does not really matter.
18:26:14	krux02	Final cut Pro X is an application where everey millisecond counts?
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18:26:34	ksandvik	Indeed. Startup time is measured. Same with other large scale apps.
18:26:44	krux02	yea
18:26:53	ksandvik	If we have millions of objects that need to be created it impacts the startup time.
18:27:09	krux02	you should start thinking about that, as soon as your are as big as tha program.
18:27:23	ksandvik	Same with embedded systems I'm working on just now. We try to squeeze everything we get from compile time.
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18:27:56	krux02	if you create millions of objects during every compilation, your development experience might become invisible.
18:28:04	ksandvik	Most embedded system are running low-end ARM chips and not much RAM. And the Flash is also not that fast.
18:28:24	krux02	just a figure, what would you choose:
18:28:31	ksandvik	It depends, with incremental compilation the large sized pro apps actually built really fast, I could tweak something and have it up and running in 10 seconds.
18:28:46	krux02	1 minute extra compilation time vm 1 second extra startup time.
18:28:58	FromDiscord	<Rika> we dont got incremental compilation yet do we
18:29:10	ksandvik	Engineering management would say 1 ms startup time gain. or more.
18:29:11	krux02	somebody is working on it.
18:29:19	krux02	but we don't have incremental compilation.
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18:29:51	ksandvik	They just buy us faster workstations if compilation time could squeeze out better performance.
18:29:56	FromDiscord	<Rika> i think what krux is basically saying is that if you're developing it and it's not released for prod yet go for the startup time first
18:29:58	krux02	btw how long does final cut pro take to start up?
18:30:06	FromDiscord	<Rika> and once it's a burden then switch to CT
18:30:14	Yardanico	yeah @Rika i agree
18:30:31	krux02	^^ yes thask you
18:30:34	Yardanico	in most cases switching from rt to ct can be as simple as switching "let" to "const"
18:30:39	ksandvik	I don't remember the exact numbers just now - — I know the flow of what needs tobe set up and it's quite a lot.
18:30:46	FromDiscord	<Rika> once the importance shifts from "i must finish this as quickly as possible" to "our users need the speed now" switch
18:31:34	FromDiscord	<Rika> its unnecessary to spend so much time in CT if you're not releasing that binary in prod
18:31:41	ksandvik	What I'm saying is for command line tools and simple stuff like that, no worry about all this.
18:31:43	FromDiscord	<Rika> just like why we dont dev with -d:release on all the time
18:31:59	krux02	But honestly, you can't compare final cut pro x, with products that are developed by individuals in Nim.
18:32:02	ksandvik	If you do large scale embedded work, web servers, or pro apps, then this is what we are worried about on a daily scale.
18:32:23	krux02	Final cut pro has apple behind it.
18:32:24	FromDiscord	<Rika> once theyre released and fully fledged sure i guess
18:32:48	krux02	no really. You can't.
18:33:27	krux02	Final Cut pro (never used it), is probably a pretty bloated application that has a lot of startup time wasted on unnecessary stuff.
18:33:41	ksandvik	If Nim wants to be a systems/pro app dev language, these are the things engineers look at. I do like Nim, I think it's a good start,
18:33:57	krux02	I don't know how long it need to start up, but I guess is is probably more than 15 seconds.
18:34:18	ksandvik	Final Cut pro X, yes and no. It was a full rewrite but the functionality required is *a lot*.
18:34:50	ksandvik	Just the UI updating with *thousands* of views takes its own toll.
18:35:02	ksandvik	Audio apps same thing.
18:35:20	krux02	ksandvik, I don't know what your message here it.
18:35:56	krux02	is
18:36:02	ksandvik	My message is that for toy apps and command line tools, yes anything goes. For pro apps and embedded systems, thinking about data structures and compile time optimization is a daily task.
18:36:05	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> how is this done: `from x import *` in nim?
18:36:13	Yardanico	"import module"
18:36:24	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> oki
18:36:38	krux02	ksandvik, and yet you sound like you have no idea what Nim actually does, otherwise you wouldn't say such things.
18:37:03	ksandvik	That's why I asked for constexpr and if macros are compiled time executions.
18:37:25	krux02	Nim is fast. Quite fast to compile. Extremely fast to execute, and metaprogramming beyond the possibilities of any other languge anybody ever showed to me.
18:37:34	Yardanico	krux02: what about the forbidden word
18:37:40	Yardanico	lisp
18:37:50	krux02	we recently had a lisper change to Nim
18:38:15	krux02	axion is his name
18:38:31	Yardanico	well another lisper with who I talked on tg uses emacs with lisp and doesn't agree with that :P
18:38:32	ksandvik	Lisp is fine but for runtime execution, uh huh, so many failed Apple projects that tried to use Lisp but that's another story (when I'm retired)
18:38:49	Yardanico	yeah, nim is easier to write after all
18:38:52	krux02	Nim has better metaprogramming possibilities than lisp, because Nim has type information in the AST
18:38:57	Yardanico	I mean it's easier for new people to understand and stuff
18:39:23	krux02	I do a bit of Lisp as well, but only emacs lisp.
18:40:04	krux02	lisp is cool, especially the dynamic lisp environment where everything can be changed at runtime. Nim doesn't have that.
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18:41:01	dadada	krux02: do you know how rust's new metaprogramming capabilities compare?
18:41:11	krux02	actually I do.
18:41:11	Yardanico	uh oh
18:41:24	krux02	Rust metaprogramming work on token streams.
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18:41:31	Yardanico	$*>?%*$
18:41:38	Yardanico	{}#::
18:42:02	krux02	so you basically write your own parser in it.
18:42:19	krux02	That also means, no type information.
18:43:01	krux02	not sure what functions macros can call though.
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18:46:37	FromDiscord	<Rika> sounds super painful to use
18:46:49	FromDiscord	<Rika> macros on nim are unlike any macros ive ever fuckin seen and i love it
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19:10:15	FromGitter	<zetashift> this type mismatch error is driving me insane, can somebody try `nimble test` on my repo https://github.com/zetashift/naytracer and see if they get a type mismatch error?
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19:11:29	Yardanico	i get it too
19:11:42	Yardanico	on latest devel
19:12:43	FromGitter	<zetashift> ok so it shouldn't be an OS thing
19:12:54	FromDiscord	<Rika> you got no CI?
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19:16:28	FromGitter	<zetashift> No, I don't really have any experience with CI
19:16:48	FromGitter	<zetashift> most of my programming stuff are small scripts for bioinformatics D:
19:26:33	FromGitter	<zetashift> oh wow I can reproduce this problem
19:26:41	FromGitter	<zetashift> in the playground
19:26:50	Yardanico	nice! (:P)
19:26:52	FromGitter	<zetashift> it seems to be because in my tests I have a 3x3 matrix too
19:27:56	FromGitter	<zetashift> https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2fGK anyone know if this is because type inference?
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20:23:45	krux02	zetashift: what I can tell, your scipt misses a `let`.
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20:26:08	FromDiscord	<Rika> your `==` proc only allows for equal size matrices to be compared
20:26:43	FromDiscord	<Rika> wait huh one moment
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20:44:11	axion	I was summoned.
20:44:20	FromDiscord	<Rika> hello lisp convert
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20:44:28	axion	Oh talking about Lisp I see.
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20:45:20	axion	There's a lot of well-known software written in Lisp. It's kind of amazing a language 20 years older than C is still kicking strong.
20:45:55	FromDiscord	<Rika> the discussion passed a few hours ago afaik
20:46:04	axion	and newer languages like Nim taking advantage of some of its main selling points for a change is welcome
20:46:07	FromDiscord	<Rika> so yeah sadly it seems like the people who mentioned it are gone
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20:49:10	ksandvik	There's this saying that each generation of new computer scientists will re-invent something that was available in Li
20:49:18	ksandvik	LISP in the sixties.
20:49:34	FromDiscord	<Rika> like haskell?
20:50:02	axion	Greenspun's Tenth Rule
20:50:47	ksandvik	I've seen in the parking space here a custom number plate CADR.
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20:53:20	axion	Until last month I was using CL every day for nearly 2 decades. Nim is pretty great.
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21:27:36	axion	But I haven't been coding in a couple days. Trying to build something :)
21:27:42	FromGitter	<zetashift> @krux02 yea because I commented out a wrong line :P: https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2fGO
21:30:53	ksandvik	tuལ༏འ
21:31:13	ksandvik	༣།་མནན \༴qbradley'\349jhngfdsio
21:31:37	disruptek	tbh you had me at tuལ༏འ
21:31:39	ksandvik	Ooops, cleaning my keyboard and had this view focused.
21:31:43	ksandvik	Tibetan :-).
21:32:27	ksandvik	Have to take care of these MacBookPro keyboards, tiny particles get in and a key is blocked….
21:33:32	FromDiscord	<treeform> Tibetan is an impossible language to learn...
21:33:38	ksandvik	I have some non-work related small projects I will try to use Nim for.
21:34:08	ksandvik	ག་ལེ་ག་ལེར་ - slowly slowly.
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21:36:08	axion	Also I never got an answer to my nimble question a couple days ago :/
21:37:27	FromDiscord	<treeform> what was you nimble question?
21:38:34	axion	I want a way to be able to run `nimble test` for any project regardless of its nimscript config, and be able to have it placed the compiled code in a dedicated build directory and not clutter up my directory tree, but of course, --outdir:build or any flag for that matter doesn't work with nimble test.
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21:40:07	axion	Basically, I'm trying to run all the tests for the project whose file I am visiting with an editor key binding
21:40:26	ksandvik	Sounds reasonable.
21:40:30	axion	I don't want to have to depend on project-specific nimscript to enable flags or anything like that. I just want it to work for any project
21:40:47	FromDiscord	<treeform> axion, I have no clue how to do that. I suggest forum post. Probably will require custom reading of nimble files.
21:41:39	ksandvik	Or maybe a feature request via github. A global nimble test that finds all the test targets and keeps the output separate from the src file system sounds like a good idea.
21:43:17	axion	It's just unfortunate that no flags are honored for `nimble test`. I also want to hide hints too. My only solution currently is to edit every project's config.nims
21:43:53	axion	Mostly because I'm still rather new to this tooling and language in general. I'm sure there is a nicer solution somewhere
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21:57:48	krux02	axion: my personal recommendation, forget about nimble. It isn't really maintained anymore, and the implementation is beyond repair.
21:59:26	kungtotte	krux02: even for package management?
21:59:40	krux02	either make your project use submodules/subtrees for the dependencies and add the paths manually to the build script (just bash/bat but only a single call to nim with many args), or try using https://github.com/disruptek/nimph
22:00:17	*	mal`` joined #nim
22:00:26	krux02	kungtotte, if nimble works for you and you like it or you rely on it, you can continue to use it.
22:00:39	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> is there some python to nim transpiler? at least for classes?
22:01:01	krux02	In other words, if it serves your needs very well. I just realized for my part, that nimble tries to do many things that I don't want.
22:01:23	Yardanico	@Recruit_main707 There's https://github.com/metacraft-labs/py2nim
22:01:30	Yardanico	and https://github.com/metacraft-labs/py2nim_deprecated/
22:02:03	krux02	like it hides basically every error or warning message. Then something goes wrong and you have to restart your job again but this time with the "verbose" flag and then you drown in massages that you don't care about.
22:02:12	Yardanico	but really there's no such a tool which works for most python code
22:02:14	Yardanico	translate by hand :)
22:02:14	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> which is an script that calls another program XD, ill have a look at it.
22:02:33	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> Yaradinco: but im lazyyyyy
22:02:59	Yardanico	overcome the laziness
22:03:02	Yardanico	make your will stronger!
22:03:13	krux02	And last but not least, it is impossible to debug a .nimble file.
22:03:51	ksandvik	Looks like someone is working on nimble sources in github.
22:04:40	axion	Thanks but I was planning on waiting for nimph to mature a bit. I'd rather have reliable yet limited tooling.
22:05:27	*	mal`` quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
22:05:48	krux02	axion, yes
22:05:59	*	mal`` joined #nim
22:06:47	krux02	but until then, you can just work without a build tool.
22:07:18	axion	I don't want to mess with git submodules/version pinning etc manually
22:07:26	axion	That's _why_ I use a build tool
22:07:45	leorize	nimph actually works better whan nimble :P
22:08:28	axion	Well watching disruptek spend hours fixing bugs didn't get me excited about it just yet
22:08:35	Yardanico	lol
22:08:47	ksandvik	There's something beautiful with cargo, hope we only have one official/supported Nim project build tool.
22:08:50	leorize	better than no hours of bug fixing for nimble :P
22:09:26	Yardanico	well afaik d0m96 is busy these days
22:09:27	ksandvik	<whatever> build/run/test/doc/publish
22:10:21	ksandvik	and new, of course!
22:10:38	ksandvik	Even better, a way to add custom tools into this <whatever>
22:11:12	leorize	that's already a thing
22:11:36	leorize	nimble files are nimscript, and you can specify custom tasks there that could be run via: nimble <task name>
22:11:40	FromGitter	<zetashift> dom96 should just bribe a facebook manager to let him work on Nim
22:11:47	Yardanico	or just rewrite facebook in nim
22:11:48	Yardanico	easy
22:12:05	ksandvik	Facebook has turned into a big rust-fanfest place nowadays.
22:12:26	FromGitter	<zetashift> "The secret tool FB is using to spy on you! Try it out now, Nim!"
22:12:52	FromGitter	<zetashift> Rust did a lot of things well, can't blame em
22:12:58	kungtotte	Better they play around with Rust than yet another JS framework
22:13:08	Yardanico	better Rust than PHP
22:13:28	ksandvik	rust is used there for their back-end dev tools. Mercury was rewritten in Rust.
22:13:55	ksandvik	Facebook used to be a big PHP-house, maybe still there are plenty of remnants of that there.
22:15:24	FromGitter	<zetashift> they are putting a bit of work into a ReasonML/OCaml to PHP compiler
22:15:33	FromGitter	<zetashift> / transpiler whatever floats your boat
22:15:50	axion	The day nimble caves into the "rewrite it in rust" meme is the day I go back to Lisp :)
22:16:04	Yardanico	wdym lol
22:16:26	FromGitter	<zetashift> Nim likes dogfooding a lot I don't think it's gonna get rewritten in another language lmao
22:16:31	axion	Everything is rewritten in Rust these days. That technical debt will undoubtedly have to be paid eventually.
22:16:38	axion	and plus, this is Nim :)
22:16:41	Yardanico	not nim tools though
22:16:47	Yardanico	nim tries to rewrite everything in nim
22:16:54	Yardanico	playground in nim, forum in nim, nimble in nim, nim in nim
22:17:03	leorize	nim compiler still haven't been rewritten in (idiomatic) nim yet :P
22:17:09	Yardanico	sadly the website is not in nim (I mean it's static but the generator isn't in nim)
22:17:17	ksandvik	Yes, Nim should be written in nim. Same with a build tool (note singular)/
22:17:26	Yardanico	well, it is written in nim
22:17:33	axion	Yup, which is why I'm here with Nim to stay. Just don't like that _nearly_ everything is being rewritten in Rust
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22:19:35	kungtotte	nimph can't handle perfectly valid URLs for remotes, so that's kind of a non-starter for me.
22:20:19	leorize	disruptek: ^
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22:20:27	leorize	you gotta investigate that
22:21:39	axion	I agree there should be a singular build tool. nimble was that, but if it's not maintained and beyond repair, the documentation and official releases need to switch it out
22:21:48	Yardanico	well nimble is still maintained
22:22:05	leorize	the build tool is the nim compiler itself
22:22:15	Yardanico	well yeah
22:22:19	Yardanico	nimscript is in nim compiler
22:22:23	leorize	I'd say nimble is just a dependency manager
22:24:47	disruptek	kungtotte: gimme an example or file a bug report, please.
22:24:59	axion	Well, I think more than a compiler and dependency manager is part of build infrastructure, but that's just me
22:25:01	kungtotte	Just double-checked the nimph url issue, it works on another repo so it's definitely choking on this specific URL
22:25:45	watzon	I'm confused as to how nimble is "beyond repair"
22:25:46	kungtotte	disruptek: the URL in question is [email protected]:~kungtotte/dtt
22:25:48	watzon	Works pretty well for me
22:26:00	ksandvik	The nim community is not that big so the more fractured the build story is, the harder it is to sell.
22:26:32	leorize	nimble and nimph uses the same project configuration scheme
22:26:35	leorize	via .nimble file
22:26:53	ksandvik	I must say, cargo has been a big evangelizing point for Rust.
22:26:54	disruptek	honestly, the only nimph bugs i know about arrive from the compiler.
22:27:25	FromDiscord	<Rika> `Just don't like that nearly everything is being rewritten in Rust` what's the issue with that?
22:28:30	kungtotte	Because most people do RIIR the wrong way and end up costing tons of resources implementing a version of the old code that doesn't actually deliver all of the features of the old code.
22:28:57	FromDiscord	<Rika> RIIR?
22:29:05	leorize	rewrite it in rust
22:29:09	kungtotte	^
22:29:11	watzon	yep
22:29:18	disruptek	kungtotte: https://github.com/disruptek/nimph/issues/121
22:29:19	disbot	➥ special handling is needed for either GitHub or non-GitHub URLs
22:29:23	axion	1) Technical debt. 2) Incompetent developers expecting different results.
22:29:30	kungtotte	See? The phenomenon has an acronym. That means it's happening too much.
22:29:35	watzon	You end up saying "well I'm rewriting this in rust, may as well rewrite that too"
22:29:55	FromDiscord	<Rika> *whistles*
22:29:56	watzon	And before you know is the scope has gotten out of control
22:30:03	FromDiscord	<Rika> I totally don't do that, of course not, no
22:30:10	leorize	it's not too surprising tbh
22:30:19	FromDiscord	<Rika> *whistles harder* I swear I don't
22:30:35	leorize	you can't even get the same result just rewriting in the same language
22:30:37	watzon	I'm guilty haha. It's easy to get a bit over excited.
22:31:13	leorize	people thought rust is the "magic" fix for all of their bugs
22:31:57	leorize	the sad reality is that it's not, usually you end up with more bugs than what you started with
22:32:02	ksandvik	The rust rewrites I know of are usually python or similar tools that need to be rewritten for better performance to scale — something where Nim would be as suitable.
22:32:06	kungtotte	No programming language has been invented that prevents bugs at a greater rate than writing more code produces bugs.
22:32:58	axion	Sure. After all rubustness is inversely proprtional to the number of users.
22:33:19	ksandvik	Or then total new system level projects such as Google's Fuchsia OS. They actually tried go for a while.
22:33:36	kungtotte	ksandvik: there's a bunch of zealotry going on where people do driveby suggestions on random projects to rewrite them in Rust. That doesn't really happen (at scale) with any other language.
22:34:05	ksandvik	Rust is just now the 'hipster' language, me thinks. It's not that bad, actually. But overkill for many cases.
22:34:13	Yardanico	honestly I just don't understand why Rust is good for writing high-level apps like web server backends or typical GUI apps
22:34:21	ksandvik	Exactly.
22:34:22	leorize	it's mainly driven by rust claims of "1000% memory safety"
22:34:24	disruptek	axion: if there's something you can criticize in nimph, i'm all ears.
22:34:25	Yardanico	I understand when it's used for writing more low-level stuff
22:34:30	Yardanico	where safety can actually hel
22:34:32	Yardanico	help
22:35:04	kungtotte	Safety helps everywhere, it just becomes a problem much faster in certain domains
22:35:27	axion	disruptek: I will let you know if I ever decide to use it. For now, I'm sticking with what Nim ships with and mentions in their docs as it's what most users will have and be familiar with.
22:35:34	leorize	people idea was: written in C => full of memory-related bugs
22:35:53	leorize	and rust was like this magical cure
22:35:58	FromDiscord	<Rika> Idk, I've seen bandwagoning when it comes to rust
22:36:39	ksandvik	It also helps that the Rust project really focused on a very good developer community.
22:36:49	ksandvik	Things like that go far.
22:37:12	disruptek	sure. it'd be great if nim had nice tooling like rust.
22:37:22	watzon	Right?
22:37:24	disruptek	but as long as people refuse to use nice nim tooling, it won't improve.
22:37:33	leorize	well when you have mozilla backing and use c++-style syntax, it'd be surprising if it doesn't have that much traction
22:37:44	disruptek	because, as axion claims, use is inversely proportional to robustness.
22:37:52	disruptek	people like this are part of the problem and not part of the solution.
22:38:01	axion	It's second main driving point was that it produces efficient machine code. Now look at Rust developers. They are making more use of dynamic dispatch to alleviate the compile times, even though the compiler is 3x faster than it was a year or 2 ago
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22:38:47	axion	That's mostly because a large project might have the same library in its transitive dependency graph multiple times, with tons of monomorphization for each
22:38:59	ksandvik	doesn't that remind me of my morning comments :-) about compilers and runtime.
22:39:23	axion	It's kind of ironic that Rust developers are starting to trend towards dynamic dispatch if you ask me.
22:39:48	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> function overloading with `+, -, *, /` doesnt work when compiled to dll?
22:39:51	leorize	turns out that rust is not easy to compile :)
22:39:56	ksandvik	I used to program in Objective-C for 12 years non-stop so I know the pain.
22:40:00	Yardanico	@Recruit_main707 what do you mean
22:40:02	Yardanico	it'll still work lol
22:40:04	kungtotte	Compile times and binary sizes are both major issues with Rust, IMO. They're getting better, but they're not great.
22:40:18	Yardanico	you're probably doing something wrong :P
22:40:28	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> i guess...
22:40:59	kungtotte	This was a while ago but I remember trying some examples from the Rust book and even something as simple as a fibonacci function ended up being like a 5MB binary on my system
22:41:01	FromDiscord	<Rika> So I just extremely quickly skimmed through how Zig does exceptions and errors, is there a way to "enforce catching errors" like that in nim?
22:41:20	Yardanico	{.raises: [].} I guess?
22:41:30	leorize	return a value :)
22:41:32	Yardanico	annonate your procs with that and you'll have to catch all exceptions :P
22:41:56	leorize	the best way to enforce error handling is to return a value :)
22:42:14	leorize	!repo nim-result
22:42:15	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> its throwing this error, which confuses me if its actually the name: https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2fHD
22:42:15	disbot	https://github.com/arnetheduck/nim-result -- 9nim-result: 11Friendly, exception-free value-or-error returns, similar to Option[T] 15 24⭐ 2🍴 7& 4 more...
22:42:30	disruptek	not that friendly.
22:42:33	disruptek	!repo badresult
22:42:34	disbot	https://github.com/disruptek/badresults -- 9badresults: 11like results but worse 15 0⭐ 0🍴
22:42:43	disruptek	more friendly.
22:43:05	leorize	Recruit_main707: can you make a reproducible sample and file an issue?
22:43:19	FromDiscord	<Rika> disruptek what's the differenxe
22:43:25	Yardanico	@Recruit_main707 that's a codegen issue
22:43:43	Yardanico	if it's erroring on the c compiler stage
22:43:45	disruptek	nim-results requires that you impl a side-effect-free $ for every value you return in a Result.
22:43:56	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> Yaradinco: https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2fHE
22:43:58	disruptek	obnoxious, imo.
22:44:13	Yardanico	why are you doing exportc?
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22:44:30	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> dont i need both flags?
22:44:38	disruptek	for semaphores, yes.
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22:44:45	disruptek	highly recommended.
22:44:48	leorize	Recruit_main707: why do you need them?
22:44:56	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> this is compiled to a dll
22:45:01	leorize	so?
22:45:08	leorize	do you call them from outside the dll?
22:45:22	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> thats it XD, yes, thats the intention
22:45:41	FromDiscord	<Rika> Yardanico: why?
22:45:50	leorize	Recruit_main707: then you need to export them with C-friendly name
22:46:16	leorize	something like `exportc: "add_vector"`
22:46:23	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> well, thinking it better there was no way it worked in python when exported so...
22:50:21	leorize	what are you trying to do lol
22:51:43	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> essentially, someone made a bet, and if i transpile some utils (compatible with python), they will create a nim rocket league bot and will make a branch for my nim version of this utils.
22:52:14	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> so, a python library to sum up :p
22:52:58	leorize	ok I still don't know why you want to make it a dll :p
22:53:39	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> for interoping with python, i am gonna wrap my functions back to a user friendly python file/s
22:53:48	leorize	ah, use nimpy
22:53:52	leorize	problem solved :P
22:54:04	leorize	!repo nimpy
22:54:05	disbot	https://github.com/yglukhov/nimpy -- 9nimpy: 11Nim - Python bridge 15 507⭐ 25🍴 7& 4 more...
22:54:08	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> it throwed me some weird errors
22:54:19	leorize	they maybe you should investigate that :P
22:54:38	leorize	nimpy is the best way to interact between nim and python atm
22:54:56	disruptek	~news
22:54:56	disbot	news: 11the #nim-news channel has a Nim news feed of updates to pull requests, issues, and packages. -- disruptek
22:54:59	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> nimpy doesnt like nim objects
22:55:33	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> and messing a bit with objects inside objects seems to make it give up
22:56:33	leorize	have you filed an issue to the project?
22:57:57	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> well, it says types and methods are still not very well supported, so i will just let yglukhov extend those functionalities a bit more and then check if the error persists
22:58:23	*	defection quit (Quit: defection)
22:58:45	disruptek	we need to get the ball rolling on the nim coronavirus badge project.
23:01:31	FromDiscord	<Rika> On the nim what
23:02:50	disruptek	it's a badge that measures how near you've been to other badges and sums/shares your risk.
23:03:34	disruptek	a small embedded project; hopefully something we can give away at fosdem, etc.
23:03:41	leorize	Recruit_main707: looks like nimpy can help you if you can deal with PyObject directly
23:04:09	disruptek	i dunno how else to interop with python in any serious way.
23:04:32	leorize	hmm, actually nimpy does support nim objects
23:05:36	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> yes, it does work keeping things simple, but i have an object, with one field being an object
23:05:39	*	jjido quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
23:06:10	disruptek	Araq: any reason i shouldn't abstract out the BModule.labels interface?
23:06:21	disruptek	it's a pain in the ass.
23:06:26	leorize	Recruit_main707: yea it might actually supports that
23:06:36	Araq	disruptek: what do you mean?
23:06:54	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> its getting confised with PyObjects and my object or something
23:07:20	disruptek	its manipulated everywhere with inc and creates something too sensitive.
23:07:37	disruptek	too sensitive to order, mutation, on and on.
23:08:14	disruptek	i'm stuck with this damned bug again. something to do with a particular append. maybe it's a reflection of a bug somewhere else.
23:08:34	disruptek	but it seems to be labels-related and i dunno. i'm irritated.
23:08:37	*	Guest76476 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
23:08:40	disruptek	damn alcoholics.
23:09:03	disruptek	and my dotOperator hack didn't work.
23:09:23	disruptek	so now i get to somehow bounce from ast to module, which will be... y'know, fun.
23:09:27	leorize	Recruit_main707: wdym?
23:09:48	Araq	well sure, replace the label counter with something else
23:10:10	disruptek	yeah. it can be anything else as long as it's anything else.
23:10:51	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> leorize, do you want to see the error?
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23:11:05	disruptek	it's actually a loc bug but labels are a similar problem.
23:12:49	disruptek	genStrAppend takes a mutable TLoc and merely checks that it's empty. does nothing else with it.
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23:19:31	leorize	Recruit_main707: sure?
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23:22:02	shashlick	Looks like the nimble beat down is over
23:22:54	shashlick	Fact is that package management is not easy nor solved, see the dime a dozen attempts at it and continuous innovation
23:23:25	ksandvik	Yes.
23:23:35	ksandvik	Could be good to focus collectively on one project.
23:23:53	shashlick	On top of that nimble takes on building as well which has its own dozen of implementations out there
23:24:52	ksandvik	That's fine, we only need one tool with the extension option for additional tools. But that's just my opinion.
23:25:07	shashlick	I spent some time thinking about it, I'm an expert in neither and unless the community is willing to tolerate some bumbling around, I'm not willing to invest the time
23:25:16	ksandvik	I've seen so many build systems so far where just a Makefile works really well, but it's the constant re-innovation factor.
23:25:18	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> leorize: https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2fHM
23:26:21	FromDiscord	<Recruit_main707> wait, this one: https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2fHO
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23:28:12	disruptek	the real problem is that we cannot agree on the problem.
23:29:37	shashlick	The real problem is that PR's just don't have the same velocity as being a maintainer
23:30:10	disruptek	i guess you should fork nimble and we'll compete to improve the ecosystem.
23:30:48	shashlick	The amount of code I rewrote for nimterop ast2 just wouldn't work as PR's
23:31:28	disruptek	i'm beginning to wonder if the amount of code i've written for IC will "work."
23:32:20	shashlick	And I'd hate the person who would create a PR with this scale of change
23:33:20	disruptek	so you're saying that you should have created a new project instead.
23:35:35	FromGitter	<zetashift> Reminds me of Scala which also has a lot of build systems
23:36:20	disruptek	imo it should just be done in nimscript, but you can't even fetch your cwd in nimscript, so... fuck it.
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23:38:42	shashlick	disruptek: no, I mean that when you want contributors, you need to let them have some free reign else it is too slow and pointless
23:39:09	shashlick	and I acknowledge that it isn't easy to figure that out since visions need to match
23:39:12	disruptek	i agree, so why don't you fork nimble and allow contributions?
23:39:32	shashlick	i'm neck deep in nimterop so perhaps some day
23:39:33	disruptek	visions don't need to match, they just need to be compatible.
23:39:58	disruptek	i'm not a fan of the silly banner added to `bump`, but it's compatible with my goals, so i merged it.
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23:40:45	shashlick	more importantly, it should be possible to experiment, mess up and fix things incrementally than expecting an individual PR to be ready to go
23:40:50	qbradley	Is there a way in nim to read a file at compile time, and perhaps include it as static data in the resulting executable?
23:40:59	disruptek	see staticRead()
23:41:03	shashlick	nimdeps
23:42:37	disruptek	shashlick: i dunno what happened but i'm pretty sure you're to blame. now nimph is unable to prevent the compiler's config parser from emitting hints even though i have always omitted hintConf from the config.
23:42:49	disruptek	any ideas?
23:43:04	shashlick	devel?
23:43:16	qbradley	disruptek: thank you
23:43:24	disruptek	i believe so.
23:44:03	shashlick	i think someone recently merged some code around hints
23:44:10	shashlick	is it working on 1.0.6
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23:45:16	disruptek	i will test 1.0.6 now.
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23:45:47	disruptek	qbradley: see also nimdeps
23:45:50	disruptek	!repo nimdeps
23:45:51	disbot	https://github.com/genotrance/nimdeps -- 9nimdeps: 11Nim library to bundle dependency files into executable 15 14⭐ 2🍴
23:46:03	dom96	I wonder what the context of this Nimble conversation is
23:46:16	disruptek	seems to be a PR problem.
23:46:38	qbradley	disruptek: very cool - thanks
23:47:26	dom96	Anything I can do to help?
23:47:42	disruptek	manage your PR?
23:48:04	dom96	oh, you mean public relations?
23:48:08	disruptek	yeah.
23:48:30	dom96	what's the problem?
23:48:33	disruptek	shashlick: no extra output in 1.0.6
23:49:01	disruptek	i think some people are unhappy with the pace of nimble development.
23:52:39	dom96	Understandable, I'm unhappy with it as well.
23:57:23	ksandvik	It's never too late. I could help out with some higher level work, if there's something simple, like just gathering the state and requirements?
23:57:59	ksandvik	Or just learn the code base, too.
23:58:11	ksandvik	Sorry, have to quit, should be back tomorrow.
23:58:13	shashlick	We have 14 commits in nimble in the last six months
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23:58:51	shashlick	You had 17 commits in one day