| 00:01:10 | filwit | not sure exactly what the implications of that are with Nim's backend |
| 00:01:35 | def- | I guess for correctness we would have to emulate 32/64 bit numbers |
| 00:02:24 | filwit | but I'm just passing an array of bytes to JS.. which with the Emscriptend method is actually correct (it uses a type-safe uint8 heap, so data should be 1-to-), but I'm not sure about the Nim JS backend |
| 00:03:39 | Araq | the Nim JS backend doesn't know about anything |
| 00:04:06 | filwit | yeah I figured as much. |
| 00:04:30 | Araq | it's been designed before emscripten or asm.js existed |
| 00:04:50 | Araq | or typed arrays in JS |
| 00:04:58 | filwit | well it's funny that it actually runs faster than Emscripten's asm.js backend |
| 00:05:03 | Araq | or source maps for debugging |
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| 00:05:52 | Araq | why did I write it? |
| 00:06:06 | def- | Araq: so, what's the future for the JS backend? Make it use emscripten, asm.js, just improve/fix it? |
| 00:06:22 | Araq | no idea |
| 00:06:38 | Araq | emscripten doesn't work with Nim's GC I think |
| 00:06:59 | filwit | well the Emscripten stuff doesn't work.. but honestly I think that may be the best solution at the end of the day (since it's fully type-safe, binary compat, and supports pointers, etc) |
| 00:07:23 | Araq | it's not compatible with JavaScript though ... |
| 00:07:43 | Araq | how can I access the DOM from a C app that I compiled with emscripten? |
| 00:07:46 | filwit | Araq: even --gc:none my raytracer still doesn't output correct values (with emscripten) |
| 00:08:04 | Araq | filwit: even --gc:none requires mmap though |
| 00:08:18 | filwit | ahh... i see |
| 00:08:39 | filwit | (sorta, not entire sure what mmap does besides some low-level memory stuff) |
| 00:09:52 | filwit | anyways, at for DOM with emscripten, it's pretty easy.. they have a C-level equivalent for all the getElementBy() commands that just maps over, they even have one for SDL already, so anything that targets that can pretty much just work with WebGL transparently |
| 00:10:09 | filwit | maybe "transparently" wasn't the right word, but you get my idea |
| 00:10:40 | def- | running Nim SDL programs in JS would be great |
| 00:11:12 | filwit | yeah, but Like Araq says, the GC messes things up.. |
| 00:12:24 | Araq | filwit: aha ok |
| 00:12:42 | Araq | fyi: http://msr-waypoint.com/pubs/230708/conservative-gc-oopsla-2014.pdf |
| 00:12:56 | filwit | the Nim JS backend works pretty well too.. and it's much lighter weight.. so there are some trade offs.. Nim JS backend would be much better for web ui frameworks written in Nim.. but I'm guess that, if Nim supported it correctly, emscriptent would outperform it and be more correct.. which is better for online games, ect |
| 00:13:49 | Araq | "We are unaware of any reference counting collectors which use conservatively identified roots." |
| 00:13:57 | filwit | Araq: why are you showing me this? All I was saying is that, right now, Nim's GC make Nim->EMCC not work |
| 00:14:01 | Araq | so ... they are unaware of Nim :-/ |
| 00:14:34 | Araq | stupid GC researchers |
| 00:14:48 | Araq | filwit: I'm showing this to #nim, not you |
| 00:14:49 | filwit | i don't know enough about GC mechanism to understand what "conservatively identified roots" means :\ |
| 00:15:01 | filwit | Araq: oh, my bad :| |
| 00:15:05 | Araq | the paper is excellent btw |
| 00:26:33 | Araq | good night |
| 00:34:12 | filwit | maybe it's just my lack of understanding correct float notation, but a Nim value of '0.8' should show up in the JS output as '8.0000000000000004e-01' right? |
| 00:34:47 | filwit | similarly.. '1280' is showing up as '1.2800000000000000e+03' |
| 00:35:06 | filwit | i'm guessing this is the source of the incorrect output |
| 00:35:43 | onionhammer | imo the js backend was a nifty experiment, but it should be sunsetted |
| 00:35:58 | onionhammer | not worth the level of maintenance |
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| 01:43:13 | Varriount | onionhammer: I'm planning a release of NimLime for the second/third week of next month |
| 01:43:58 | ldlework | Hmm I liked the idea of writing server/client web applications with nim |
| 01:44:26 | ldlework | I guess someone can by later and revitalize if it becomes important enough to their use-case |
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| 02:08:49 | onionhammer | Varriount sweet sounds good |
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| 04:27:34 | reactormonk | How exactly do I use sockets? https://github.com/reactormonk/nim/blob/epc/compiler/nimsuggest/nimsuggest.nim#L204 but the emacs end just goes "connection closed" |
| 04:27:39 | reactormonk | !! Process Sentinel [epc con 11] : #<process epc con 11> : "connection broken by remote peer |
| 04:27:43 | reactormonk | to be correct |
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| 04:29:41 | reactormonk | oh, I shouojld use net |
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| 04:42:51 | reactormonk | ok, said code doesn't actually listen according to netstat -l |
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| 05:06:17 | reactormonk | yargh... some silent downcast into wierd results :-/ |
| 05:08:55 | reactormonk | hm, doesn't seem to matter too much |
| 05:09:41 | reactormonk | ok, nimsuggest --epc starts up nicely on the command line but not via epc :-/ |
| 05:11:42 | reactormonk | tcp 0 0 localhost.localdo:55822 localhost.localdo:41641 TIME_WAIT <- stuck :-( |
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| 05:32:56 | reactormonk | no idea what's stuck there. If anyone wants to test: nim c compiler/nimsuggest/nimsuggest.nim && cp compiler/nimsuggest/nimsuggest bin |
| 05:33:32 | reactormonk | and then (epc:start-epc "/home/tass/dev/nim/nim/bin/nimsuggest" '("--epc" "/home/tass/dev/nim/nim/compiler/nim.nim")) where you replace the path to your nimsuggest etc. |
| 05:35:36 | Kingsquee | https://github.com/flaviut/nim-by-example/blob/master/content/case.md |
| 05:35:56 | Kingsquee | whats the "case (x and 3) + 7:" part mean? |
| 05:36:28 | Kingsquee | 'and 3' doesn't really make any sense there, to me |
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| 05:58:14 | reactormonk | Kingsquee, looks like a remainder statement to me |
| 06:12:11 | Varriount | Kingsquee: 'x and 3' can only produce integers 3 and below |
| 06:12:36 | Varriount | 'and' with integers does a binary 'and' operation |
| 06:16:53 | Varriount | Kingsquee: Though I'll admit, it took me a minute to understand what was going on. |
| 06:46:12 | Kingsquee | <Varriount> 'and' with integers does a binary 'and' operation |
| 06:46:20 | Kingsquee | that's kind of unnerving / :D |
| 06:46:57 | Kingsquee | a programming language trying to do what I mean, not what I say? |
| 06:49:17 | Kingsquee | i.e. 'and' could mean & or && based on its context? |
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| 08:03:51 | repax | Kingsquee: Not based on context but based on the types. It's typesafe. A lot better than C where 0 is false and anything else is true. |
| 08:05:19 | Kingsquee | strange, but interesting |
| 08:05:22 | Kingsquee | thanks |
| 08:09:27 | repax | Anyhow, the example is uninformative because 3 and 7 are just magic numbers. How would you know what the case expression is supposed to match? In a real-world example you would name those values so that the meaning of the case is clear. I suppose that the example is just meant to show that you can perform operation in a case statement. |
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| 08:37:27 | Kingsquee | >forward declarations |
| 08:37:35 | Kingsquee | noooooo |
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| 08:45:32 | LoneTech | the manual is lying to me and the compiler is not exactly assistive. "msp430usb.nim(42, 2) Error: invalid type: 'Table[system.int, system.string]'" and " you are using simple standard types like int or string for the keys of the table you won't have any problems" |
| 08:47:24 | LoneTech | maybe tables just can't be const (which would be rather bad). making it var got it to bark about newSeq instead. |
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| 08:55:47 | repax | LoneTech: Tables can be const if you use the devel branch of Nim. |
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| 09:05:18 | LoneTech | that would be more confidence inspiring if it didn't break in new fun ways each time I try an updated version |
| 09:06:16 | LoneTech | (this time it wouldn't compile the compiler) |
| 09:06:49 | repax | Oh? It does for everyone else |
| 09:07:22 | xificurC_ | why is the compiler bootstrapped from C, why not from a previous Nim version? |
| 09:07:33 | LoneTech | oh, apparently in trying to isolate or work around a previous issue I got to a compiler that can't compile the current one. checking out newer csources and working from that could compile it |
| 09:07:44 | LoneTech | xificurC_: and that would be why |
| 09:08:09 | repax | xificurC_: Nim is used to build Nim. But in order to build an eary Nim compiler C is used |
| 09:08:19 | repax | early |
| 09:08:33 | LoneTech | afaict there's no nim compiler I wouldn't call early |
| 09:08:52 | xificurC_ | what do you mean by early |
| 09:09:36 | repax | Well, "older" |
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| 09:10:14 | xificurC_ | still not clear to me, must be dumb :) |
| 09:10:59 | repax | I'm not very knowledgeable about the Nim bootstrapping. I just followed the build instructions and got it working |
| 09:11:01 | LoneTech | I call it early because it's not stable enough that I can avoid bootstrapping reliably |
| 09:11:26 | xificurC_ | so once the compiler matures it will build itself |
| 09:11:44 | LoneTech | today the error "cannot prove a[i] is disjoint from a[i+1]" is apparently "(i)..(i) not disjoint from (i)..(i)". not exactly working towards clarity |
| 09:13:10 | repax | It already builds itself |
| 09:14:18 | Kingsquee | soon it will write itself? |
| 09:14:45 | xificurC_ | but it builds itself from a c source, not a nim source |
| 09:15:02 | repax | Kingsquee: Are you by chance talking about the experimental AI-module? |
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| 09:15:35 | Kingsquee | repax: no, I was making a joke that I hoped would someday make me a futurist |
| 09:15:41 | Kingsquee | is that day today? |
| 09:16:19 | repax | xificurC_: ultimately yes. But if you already have a Nim compiler you can build the nim sources with that. Of course, C code is generated |
| 09:16:46 | repax | Kingsquee: the future is already here, it's just not evenly distributed. |
| 09:17:25 | Kingsquee | :3c |
| 09:17:35 | Kingsquee | what is this AI-module? |
| 09:17:46 | repax | That was a joke too |
| 09:17:55 | Kingsquee | noooooo |
| 09:18:11 | * | Kingsquee does like his AI |
| 09:18:16 | * | Kingsquee also modules |
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| 09:38:58 | xificurC_ | a very stupid question, but after bin/nim c koch and ./koch boot -d:release, where is the compiler? I see bin/nim.exe and compiler/nim.exe |
| 09:39:37 | LoneTech | the one I use is in bin |
| 09:39:48 | xificurC_ | they seem to be the same |
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| 09:40:09 | LoneTech | yes, it looks like compiler/ holds the ones that were built including the double check that it compiles stably |
| 09:41:02 | LoneTech | now I'm wondering how to get a UTF16LE string. |
| 09:42:11 | LoneTech | looks a whole lot like that's another thing that can't be done in the compilation itself. I don't want to resort to preprocessors when I have metaprogramming :( |
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| 09:53:48 | Araq | LoneTech: I have no idea what you're talking about |
| 09:54:01 | LoneTech | sorry. just getting ahead of myself |
| 09:54:35 | Araq | Nim does build Nim but for those of you who have no working Nim, we distribute the C sources. |
| 09:54:55 | LoneTech | I found encode, and thought since it referred to external libraries (iconv) it might be an FFI thing, which doesn't work compile time. but it looks built in. it broke on Time instead |
| 09:55:29 | Araq | LoneTech: what do you want to do at compile-time? |
| 09:55:40 | LoneTech | build USB descriptors and lookup tables |
| 09:56:06 | LoneTech | including strings, which are utf8 in source but utf16 in usb |
| 09:56:18 | LoneTech | slowly poking my way around it |
| 09:57:31 | Araq | use an external process, staticExec and the new marshal.$$ and 'to' which work at compile-time on devel |
| 09:57:59 | Araq | you can look at my 'lexim' project to see how that works |
| 09:58:23 | Araq | this way you can also do caching for fast rebuilds |
| 09:58:48 | LoneTech | the project is tiny (per definition, it's for a microcontroller), fast rebuilds are not an issue |
| 10:00:19 | Araq | ok but the full power of Nim available at compile-time is still better than workarounds |
| 10:01:17 | LoneTech | yes. I thought that full power might let me write const serial = convert("MSP430 Joystick", "utf-16", "utf-8") |
| 10:03:15 | LoneTech | ah. encodings imports os which imports times which breaks for standalone. |
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| 10:05:27 | LoneTech | and encodings itself relies on C imports. so this does require a separate execution of a natively compiled program |
| 10:09:57 | LoneTech | which in turn means the build process requires multiple targets |
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| 10:25:12 | Araq | LoneTech: what do you do with 'parallel' to get that error msg? |
| 10:25:25 | Araq | and btw the error message did get clearer: |
| 10:25:27 | LoneTech | same old demo program |
| 10:25:37 | Araq | before it was "cannot prove" |
| 10:25:47 | Araq | now it's "can prove what you're doing is wrong" |
| 10:26:00 | Araq | :P |
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| 10:27:41 | LoneTech | erm.. looking at it again, the program wasn't even wrong. |
| 10:28:01 | LoneTech | the line that should have been a conflict was commented out |
| 10:28:28 | Araq | report it please |
| 10:33:16 | LoneTech | erm, reading my comments in it this is the same problem it had before. which likely means there's a report somewhere. |
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| 10:35:18 | LoneTech | will https://github.com/Araq/Nim/issues/2612 do? |
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| 10:36:49 | Araq | LoneTech: excellent, thanks |
| 10:37:40 | Araq | LoneTech: put it in a 'main' proc. 'i' is a global variable, cannot prove anything about it |
| 10:37:57 | LoneTech | oh. forgot that |
| 10:38:11 | Araq | I'm not saying that fixes things |
| 10:38:18 | Araq | but it might |
| 10:39:13 | LoneTech | well, it does change that. the program errors out with an overflow because of the range though |
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| 10:39:47 | LoneTech | but the same change allows omitting the range so the while loop can end |
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| 11:22:08 | gokr | xificurC_: http://goran.krampe.se/2014/10/15/bootstrapping-nim/ |
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| 11:30:20 | xificurC_ | gokr: thanks, interesting read. So if I already have a compiled nim on my machine what simplified process can I use? |
| 11:30:27 | xificurC_ | (for an update) |
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| 11:30:43 | gokr | ./koch boot -d:relase |
| 11:30:47 | gokr | release |
| 11:31:23 | gokr | Ok, so sorry if that came out... as a two liner, what I mean is: ./koch boot -d:release |
| 11:31:25 | xificurC_ | so I just pull in the changes from github and run koch? Cool, that's much simpler :) |
| 11:31:40 | gokr | Yeah, it often works fine for me on "-b devel" |
| 11:32:03 | gokr | Gonna do it right now in fact |
| 11:33:06 | xificurC_ | the picture I had in my mind was quite different - csources - nim written in C, current nim - written in nim |
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| 11:33:47 | gokr | No, the csources are just the generated C sources. I don't think there has ever been a handwritten Nim compiler in C. First was in... Pascal? Not sure. |
| 11:34:08 | LoneTech | turns out marshal can't be imported for standalone target |
| 11:34:09 | xificurC_ | gokr: yeah I got that from your blog post, thanks! Pascal, really? |
| 11:34:29 | gokr | Not sure, I thought I read that somewhere. Araq knows :) |
| 11:34:52 | xificurC_ | thought it was in C and when you said no I expected something fancier, like OCaml |
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| 11:35:39 | gokr | Wirth is strong in Araq, though I am now putting some Kay in there. |
| 11:35:51 | gokr | (cryptic I know) |
| 11:36:16 | Araq | pascal was picked because I always had compiler-related stuff written in it and because I knew it was easy to translate to Nim. automatically. |
| 11:36:31 | Araq | which I then did. |
| 11:36:43 | xificurC_ | nice |
| 11:36:43 | Araq | as pascal is easy to parse |
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| 11:37:36 | xificurC_ | is there an article/paper that explains the GC in layman's terms? |
| 11:37:44 | gokr | Yeah, Ian Piumarta (a sharp VM guy) wrote a language called idst - and the first compiler he wrote in C++ by hand, just to get bootstrapped. He noted "I hope this is the last C++ code I will ever write..." |
| 11:37:50 | Araq | the tool pas2nim which did the translation was then also used to generate the first wrappers |
| 11:38:18 | xificurC_ | I'm not very well educated in compilers but always like to get a bit more |
| 11:38:42 | Araq | btw the first version of pas2nim was written in Lua ;-) |
| 11:38:59 | gokr | Hehe |
| 11:39:44 | gokr | Lua is a language that I long thought was... well, uninteresting. Until I learned more a year ago or so - and realized its mainly like js but without lots of its warts. |
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| 11:40:07 | gokr | So a fairly decent language. |
| 11:42:33 | EXetoC | the table interface is very flexible |
| 11:43:02 | gokr | A bit too much though IMHO. |
| 11:44:49 | Araq | it's meh, simplicity gone wrong |
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| 11:45:26 | Araq | "we kept the language simple and as a result list is the same as table and you get nice 'nil' bugs everywhere" |
| 11:48:04 | EXetoC | the behavior of nil is a big drawback |
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| 11:48:54 | xificurC_ | how would you compare nim's verbosity to an ML language like Haskell or OCaml, or to Rust |
| 11:50:57 | Araq | xificurC_: it's on par with them, I guess? Rust is much more verbose with the stupid error handling and brace syntax |
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| 11:51:49 | Araq | and it's "optimized for notepad users" attitude where you type::where::things::came::from::like::IDEs::havent::been::invented |
| 11:52:17 | xificurC_ | Araq: thanks. I'm using OCaml for a small project right now but thinking of later giving nim a try as well |
| 11:52:45 | xificurC_ | I try way too many languages and never become proficient enough in either of them. Should be an academic |
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| 11:53:41 | xificurC_ | reading the word IDE - what do most of you use? Emacs? Vim? Aporia? |
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| 11:57:09 | Araq | aporia |
| 12:02:17 | def- | xificurC_: http://forum.nim-lang.org/t/844/2 |
| 12:02:52 | def- | Should've linked to page 1 oops |
| 12:07:50 | xificurC_ | def-: thanks |
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| 13:37:17 | xificurC_ | what's up with this wikipedia deletion crap? I'm stunned by the amount of bureaucracy present. The language exists and is used, what more is needed to create a page about it? |
| 13:37:52 | xificurC_ | I read about nim at least a dozen times on reddit. |
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| 13:48:26 | Araq | xificurC_: wikipedia has an inferiority complex and sometimes randomly demands peer reviewed scientific standards |
| 13:50:13 | coffeepot | For a programming language, I would think that github projects done by anyone who didn't write the language should count as proof that it exists. I wonder what other languages did that made them wikiworthy |
| 13:51:01 | Araq | well my drdobb's article made the cover story, was reviewing by them and people tried out the examples |
| 13:51:07 | Araq | *reviewed |
| 13:51:56 | Araq | it's not about "proof that it exists" not even wikipedia doubts that |
| 13:52:29 | Araq | it's about an illdefined term "notability" that doesn't mean anything |
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| 13:53:25 | Araq | and it's especially funny given that many people do want to read about Nim on wikipedia and complained about the lack of an article. |
| 13:53:50 | Araq | wikipedia is trying hard to piss off its own users |
| 13:54:10 | Araq | I guess its users are not "notable" or something |
| 13:54:14 | coffeepot | how does a language like rust get on there then? Has some academic written about it thereby making it somehow 'notable'? |
| 13:54:28 | coffeepot | it's very strange |
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| 13:56:45 | xificurC_ | the first strange point is - why need any proof? Go to nim-lang.org and github and see that it exists, that should suffice to open an article |
| 13:57:19 | xificurC_ | the second is discarding stuff by labeling them PRIMARY and other crap |
| 13:57:39 | xificurC_ | if I open a blog and write about nim will it make it notable? |
| 13:57:54 | dv- | no |
| 13:58:25 | Araq | xificurC_: no, you have to publish it an journal |
| 13:58:28 | xificurC_ | dv-: I wasn't suggesting that just to be clear, was just a rhetorical question |
| 13:59:05 | xificurC_ | Araq: so unless a journal writes about nim, it's not worth wikipedia? Interesting |
| 14:00:04 | dv- | forbes or NYT would also be acceptable i guess |
| 14:00:28 | xificurC_ | I remember once adding an anime series to a list of animes on wikipedia, linking to imdb.com and getting it deleted with 24h stating imdb doesn't count. |
| 14:00:55 | xificurC_ | (even though 1/4th of the others in the list were linking to imdb) |
| 14:01:17 | coffeepot | wow |
| 14:01:36 | dv- | no one has ever deleted anything i've added to wikipedia |
| 14:01:48 | Araq | dv-: add Nim then please :-) |
| 14:02:35 | dv- | there's probably a cloud of deletionists around nim now |
| 14:02:45 | dv- | just waiting to strike |
| 14:02:46 | xificurC_ | bureaucracy at its best if you ask me. It's as if since academics say 'a wikipedia article is not a good resource' the guys there are trying to make the pages and references count |
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| 14:21:15 | HakanD__ | I'm pretty much sure if they applied the rules they applied to nim, to other software articles in wikipedia, half of them would need to be deleted |
| 14:21:33 | HakanD__ | i'm hopeful the article will survive this round of debate tho |
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| 14:36:39 | Sharcho | I've developed the Colemak keyboard layout almost 10 years ago, it now comes by default on almost all operating systems (except Windows), and it's still not notable enough to have its own article. |
| 14:37:26 | EXetoC | oh. cool |
| 14:39:44 | EXetoC | gonna try it some time |
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| 14:43:13 | notfowl | HakanD__, someone listed a bunch of programming language articles without refs, most of them are gone now |
| 14:43:47 | HakanD__ | notfowl: yea, i'm following the whole parody for weeks now, quite entertaining (: |
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| 14:49:39 | HakanD__ | Sharcho: that's funny, it should be in the same bucket as dvorak |
| 14:49:47 | HakanD__ | which has it's own page |
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| 14:56:47 | reactormonk | HakanD__, probably because someone wrote a paper about it |
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| 15:21:28 | EXetoC | notfowl: where's fowl? |
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| 16:41:37 | that_new_guy | Hi! Somehow I can't compile anything anymore. A simple 'print("asd")' ends up with an error message. (File not found) I'm on Windows 7. How can that be? I compile with the following command line: "nim c $file" |
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| 16:59:47 | dom96 | that_new_guy: did you update Nim? |
| 17:02:10 | that_new_guy | dom96: No, I just reinstalled my Windows and so Nim. |
| 17:02:33 | dom96 | which version of Nim are you using? |
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| 17:03:23 | that_new_guy | 0,10,2 |
| 17:04:17 | that_new_guy | dom96: I tried both, 32 and 64bit. |
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| 17:04:58 | dom96 | well, first of all it's "echo("asd")" in Nim |
| 17:05:04 | dom96 | have you added Nim to your PATH? |
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| 17:07:04 | that_new_guy | dom96: yes. it actually compiles one file to c. oh. wait. |
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| 17:10:31 | that_new_guy | dom96: okay. i forgot to add gcc to path. but now i get errors bacause my of one folder is calles "coding and stuff". it can't handel the spaces. do you know how to fix that? |
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| 17:42:53 | Araq | def-: so what type should 'raise foo' have in your opinion? |
| 17:43:46 | Araq | that_new_guy_: don't use spaces. the bug is gone in devel |
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| 17:47:02 | def- | Araq: any? |
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| 17:47:38 | Araq | def-: I might try that |
| 17:48:43 | def- | Araq: nice. Also, I have something to release, will 0.10.4 be out soon? |
| 17:49:08 | BlaXpirit_ | (0.11.0 pls) |
| 17:49:33 | Araq | def-: dom96 is blocking the release |
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| 17:50:43 | BlaXpirit_ | sounds way more evil than it probably is |
| 17:53:51 | Araq | BlaXpirit_: also no, it'll be 0.10.4 |
| 17:54:10 | that_new_guy_ | Araq: Okay. Thank you. You're the initiator of this project, aren't you? If yes: Thank you for this great project! |
| 17:54:21 | Araq | thanks |
| 17:54:34 | BlaXpirit_ | that's wrong, whatever |
| 17:55:11 | Araq | BlaXpirit_: it's not wrong according to the semantic versioning vision manifesto declaration of independence constitution |
| 17:55:17 | BlaXpirit_ | wut |
| 17:55:18 | BlaXpirit_ | it breaks like half of code |
| 17:55:37 | Araq | it doesn't matter because *0*.xx.xx |
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| 17:55:54 | dom96 | BlaXpirit_: http://semver.org/ no. 4 |
| 17:56:21 | BlaXpirit_ | so? |
| 17:56:57 | BlaXpirit_ | Patch version Z (x.y.Z | x > 0) MUST be incremented if only backwards compatible bug fixes are introduced. A bug fix is defined as an internal change that fixes incorrect behavior. |
| 17:57:02 | BlaXpirit_ | that still stands |
| 17:57:14 | BlaXpirit_ | no 4 doesn't say anything to override it |
| 17:57:30 | Araq | all the breaking changes were bugfixes :P |
| 17:57:41 | dom96 | doesn't that only apply to 'x > 0' ? |
| 17:57:47 | BlaXpirit_ | no |
| 17:58:07 | dom96 | then what does '... (x.y.Z | x > 0) ...' mean? |
| 17:58:18 | BlaXpirit_ | means the same thing |
| 17:58:26 | dom96 | as? |
| 17:58:40 | Araq | "the versions x.y.Z for which x > 0 holds" |
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| 17:58:53 | Araq | so ... dom96 is right |
| 17:58:53 | BlaXpirit_ | x.y.Z x > 0 and x < 0 is the same |
| 17:59:07 | Araq | we're allowed to do what we want |
| 17:59:10 | BlaXpirit_ | woops by < 0 i mean == 0 |
| 17:59:17 | BlaXpirit_ | sure, do what you want, but it's definitely wrong |
| 18:00:35 | Araq | x > 0 is not x == 0 |
| 18:00:37 | BlaXpirit_ | umm yes, i was wrong actually |
| 18:00:56 | BlaXpirit_ | yeah, pretty sure it doesn't strictly violate that document |
| 18:01:01 | BlaXpirit_ | but it's still ridiculous |
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| 18:02:18 | dom96 | Araq: I'll make you a deal. I'll agree to go with def-'s unsafe version for the release as long as you *promise* me that you will restore my patch immediately after release and do everything you can to fix the M&S crash. |
| 18:02:59 | Araq | ok. deal. |
| 18:03:56 | dom96 | Good |
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| 18:14:45 | Araq | anybody else with an opinion on what the version number should look like? |
| 18:15:49 | BlaXpirit_ | semver also says "The simplest thing to do is start your initial development release at 0.1.0 and then increment the minor version for each subsequent release." |
| 18:16:29 | Araq | Nim predates semver |
| 18:17:24 | BlaXpirit_ | does it predate common sense? |
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| 18:19:05 | Arrrrrrr | 0.10.4 |
| 18:20:06 | BlaXpirit_ | no idea what could've prompted 9->10 then |
| 18:20:15 | BlaXpirit_ | pretty sure it broke much less code |
| 18:21:07 | BlaXpirit_ | same could be said if it is judged by how "big" the release is |
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| 18:24:00 | notfowl | Araq, can i use the plugin thing to forward procs from os? |
| 18:24:50 | Araq | notfowl: "to forward" procs? |
| 18:25:32 | notfowl | to make them available at compile time |
| 18:26:16 | Araq | BlaXpirit_: 9 -> 10 was the language name change plus the partial case sensitivity thing. that broke every project out there, I think. don't overestimate the foo[0.. -1] breakage |
| 18:26:39 | BlaXpirit_ | oh of course, sorry |
| 18:27:20 | Araq | notfowl: that's done differently, via vmops.nim |
| 18:28:00 | Araq | notfowl: that already provides getEnv, fileExists, writeFile etc. have a look |
| 18:29:16 | Arrrrrrr | Nim should use its own semantic versioning based off the bible, like MajorChar,MajorEvent,MinorEvent. Por example: KingDavid.Deluge.SnakeTemps |
| 18:29:29 | BlaXpirit_ | k |
| 18:30:14 | Araq | Arrrrrrr: we should name the releases after silly animals instead. |
| 18:30:37 | Araq | or maybe we should add +100 and call it a browser |
| 18:31:42 | Varriount | LoneTech: If you're willing to do bit-twiddling, you might be able to write a compile-time proc that munges the string literal into an array literal |
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| 18:32:07 | Varriount | Although, the VM still can't cast (or has that been fixed?) |
| 18:32:42 | Araq | Varriount: that doesn't require 'cast' at all. |
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| 18:39:23 | Araq | Varriount: 0.11.0 or 0.10.4 ? |
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| 18:40:57 | Arrrrrrr | Will stuff from future be included in the next release? |
| 18:41:08 | Varriount | Hm. With the negative indice change, I'd prefer 0.11.4 |
| 18:41:25 | Araq | 0.11.4 ? |
| 18:41:33 | Araq | cause breaking changes + bugfixes? |
| 18:41:36 | Varriount | Oh, I mean, 0.11.0 |
| 18:41:45 | Araq | ok |
| 18:41:46 | Varriount | Do we have a versioning scheme in place? |
| 18:41:56 | Araq | we use semver |
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| 18:45:24 | HakanD_m | RC1 :p |
| 18:46:26 | Varriount | HakanD_m: I don't think Nim's so widely used as to warrent release candidates |
| 18:47:04 | Araq | look at my todo to see what's missing for RC1. |
| 18:47:14 | Araq | Varriount: we'll have release candidates before 1.0. |
| 18:47:22 | HakanD_m | Yea saw them |
| 18:48:03 | HakanD_m | FWIW, 10.4 makes more sense to me, not so much new features? |
| 18:48:40 | Arrrrrrr | You could argue the negative indices thing was a fix in fact. |
| 18:48:52 | Araq | web/news.txt disagrees with you, HakanD_m |
| 18:49:43 | HakanD_m | Hrm |
| 18:54:20 | dom96 | 0.11.0 |
| 18:54:27 | dom96 | we haven't had a release in a while |
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| 18:59:45 | Araq | meh fine. 0.11.0 then |
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| 19:03:37 | Araq | hi notostraca welcome |
| 19:04:16 | notostraca | oh this is TEttinger, not sure why my nick didn't change |
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| 19:05:00 | TEttinger | thanks though! |
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| 19:53:06 | flaviu | m |
| 19:53:17 | flaviu | sorry, focus randomly jumped. |
| 19:57:04 | Araq | flaviu: 0.10.4 or 0.11.0? |
| 19:58:46 | flaviu | 0.11.0, but I use devel so it doesn't matter too much. |
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| 20:01:01 | flaviu | Kingsquee: Hopefully I've fixed that confusion, thanks for pointing it out. |
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| 22:16:11 | Araq | Trustable: any progress on your UI stuff? |
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| 22:19:35 | Trustable | oh, hi Araq, I looked at claro, I plan to take over the basic structure of it |
| 22:19:49 | Araq | nice |
| 22:20:13 | Trustable | maybe name the repo "nim-claro" |
| 22:20:49 | Araq | nui # nim UI or 'new UI' |
| 22:20:57 | Araq | maybe too short |
| 22:21:20 | Trustable | the old claro is dead and I think it's a fine name, so we could reuse the name |
| 22:21:41 | Araq | yeah but people start to dislike the nim- prefix |
| 22:22:12 | Trustable | why? |
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| 22:22:32 | Araq | not creative enough |
| 22:23:50 | ldlework | lol |
| 22:24:05 | Araq | "claron" |
| 22:24:39 | ldlework | I like nui |
| 22:24:47 | ldlework | 'new eye' |
| 22:24:52 | Araq | or "clarone" cause it's a clone in Nim |
| 22:26:07 | Trustable | I think "clarone" would be fine too. actually I don't care about the name so much :D |
| 22:26:17 | Araq | oh but you should |
| 22:26:46 | Araq | it's most important that it doesn't happen to mean "idiot" in some language |
| 22:27:02 | Trustable | true |
| 22:27:02 | flaviu | Looks like I forgot to get around to making https://github.com/flaviut/nimrun public. |
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| 22:27:08 | flaviu | Well, it's public now. |
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| 22:29:30 | Trustable | Araq, why did you decide to make all module names lower case and without underscores? (e.g. why not async_http_server ) |
| 22:29:54 | ldlework | Araq: thanks for making all module names lowercase |
| 22:29:57 | Araq | Trustable: dom96 named it this way |
| 22:30:05 | Araq | ldlework: he he he |
| 22:31:10 | Trustable | oh, it's not fully consistent: sdl_gfx, joyent_http_parser, argument_parser |
| 22:32:04 | ldlework | I do like lower_case... |
| 22:32:47 | Trustable | XPLM-Nim :D |
| 22:35:46 | Trustable | but it's only the name of the repo, the module name "xplm" |
| 22:37:37 | Araq | Trustable: well you know my stance on this subject: it shouldn't matter and it's foolish that it does |
| 22:38:32 | Trustable | what about "claroui" as ui lib name? |
| 22:40:58 | Araq | pick nui or clarone please. don't come up with your own name for your own project. |
| 22:45:17 | Trustable | Araq, I'm with you, an "own project" is not my plan, but please give a reason pro/con a name |
| 22:45:47 | Araq | I'm kidding. use claroui if you like it |
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| 22:46:05 | Araq | though that's missing an 'e' |
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| 22:53:32 | Trustable | bye, have a good night |
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