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| 03:03:08 | FromDiscord | <i_am_zexel> There has been a question on my mind lately while learning nim,why did nim never take off? I mean isn't it kind of a perfect language? Yes sure it's relatively new but it has the speed of c and the syntax is easy to read just like python it kind of has a touch of js there as well and it's great for meta programming so why do companies never use nim? After all those pros surely it being new isn't as relevant right? So I would appreciate |
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| 03:18:27 | strogon14_ | tl;dr imho: because the language ecosystem as a whole is not beginner friendly |
| 03:22:48 | strogon14_ | A) the language creator is not really a guy I guess many want to be friends with. He often ridicules peoplle on the forum with beginnet problems or questions and has trong oponiions on many subjects. He's not someone like Guido von Rossum who's hard to dislike because he doesn'f really offend anybody. |
| 03:26:54 | strogon14_ | B) While the documenfation of the language and the library is fairly comprehensive, it doesn'thave nearly enough examples to illustrate commkn usage. You need a fairly high capacity for abstraction to make good use of it or study lots if other code elsewhre |
| 03:27:45 | strogon14_ | The recommended way to install nim releases, choosenim, is a mess. |
| 03:27:55 | strogon14_ | That was C) |
| 03:33:17 | strogon14_ | And D), my personal take, is that Nim lacks aclear story, a "why is Nim bteer than the rest". " General purpose systems programming language" doesn't cut it. Can you expalin on the back of a busines card, why one should choose Nim over C, Zig, Rust or C++? (Note that this isn't about actual features but about how they are framed). |
| 03:58:50 | strogon14_ | Wow, so many typing errors, I'm sorry. I shouldt really write on IRC with a tablet and in the early morning and without my glasses... |
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| 04:31:01 | FromDiscord | <ryano3797> sent a long message, see https://paste.rs/WlxDO |
| 04:31:17 | FromDiscord | <ryano3797> I suspect if A and B were solved, Nim would be absolutely killing it. |
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| 04:49:40 | FromDiscord | <planetis_m> Ah yes let's brain zap him to our liking. At least this is how I make friends. |
| 04:57:38 | FromDiscord | <i_am_zexel> In reply to @strogon14_ "Wow, so many typing": Np my mind has auto correct lol at least u took the time off ur day to answer |
| 05:05:31 | FromDiscord | <i_am_zexel> sent a long message, see https://paste.rs/nJLLz |
| 05:05:50 | FromDiscord | <i_am_zexel> (edit) "https://paste.rs/6Jx4y" => "https://paste.rs/A4Klq" |
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| 05:40:34 | FromDiscord | <ryano3797> sent a long message, see https://paste.rs/7v1Cz |
| 05:43:46 | FromDiscord | <planetis_m> In reply to @ryano3797 "Sorry, not trying to": No its not taboo. But I can't stress the importance enough of being thick skinned in general. |
| 05:44:22 | FromDiscord | <ryano3797> How so? |
| 05:46:09 | FromDiscord | <planetis_m> Well you are being avoiding enjoying the language because of a negative interaction some time ago, I guess I dunno. |
| 05:49:41 | FromDiscord | <ryano3797> Is that not a fair response? If you go to a party, and the vibes are negative and hostile, is it your fault for wanting to go somewhere else? Should you develop thicker skin so that you can stay and enjoy that party? That sounds backwards to me. |
| 05:50:57 | FromDiscord | <planetis_m> In reply to @ryano3797 "Is that not a": Well if it's a general pattern I guess you are right, but not because of a single person. I disagree here. |
| 05:52:23 | FromDiscord | <planetis_m> In general if I step into a room and think that everybody hates me, well that is a problem with me. |
| 05:54:45 | Amun-Ra | that does not apply here, fortunately |
| 05:56:05 | FromDiscord | <ryano3797> In reply to @planetis_m "Well if it's a": Yup, I agree with that, one person among many can rarely shift the energy in a room that much. The difference in this case is the absolutely central role he plays in Nim. There is no Nim without him. In his case, and uniquely in his case, one person can make a huge difference. |
| 05:58:26 | FromDiscord | <ryano3797> Anyways, sorry, I didn't mean for this to be so adversarial, or to turn into such a back-and-forth. My hope is that Nim usage grows. I'd like for it to be a more welcoming environment too. I think those two are linked. That's all. |
| 06:02:47 | FromDiscord | <planetis_m> Understood, you dont have to apologize. |
| 06:12:10 | FromDiscord | <planetis_m> but I still think you're wrong. |
| 06:14:24 | FromDiscord | <planetis_m> because you can get your questions answered by anybody here, I dont see the point in fixating again in a single person |
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| 07:19:01 | FromDiscord | <czax225> sent a long message, see https://paste.rs/niaLm |
| 07:21:41 | FromDiscord | <ryano3797> sent a long message, see https://paste.rs/zh6Kk |
| 07:22:25 | FromDiscord | <ryano3797> In reply to @planetis_m "because you can get": Yes, and I've found the people here on Discord (yourself included) pleasant and helpful. But Discord is where I come when I'm really stuck. Usually I try to resolve it myself through the docs or web searches or whatever. That's the majority of my experience. |
| 07:22:38 | Amun-Ra | that looks very interesting, czax225 |
| 07:23:52 | FromDiscord | <nnsee> https://github.com/CzaxStudio/Ferrum-Studio/commit/3ada9f477bcf5c835a0102c4ab5de7b665c1a4a4 :/ |
| 07:31:10 | FromDiscord | <czax225> In reply to @Amun-Ra "that looks very interesting,": Thanks bro |
| 07:39:02 | FromDiscord | <planetis_m> In reply to @ryano3797 "You can disagree with": The docs are hostile? It might be a language barrier because I've not noticed such a thing. Can you give an example? |
| 07:39:21 | FromDiscord | <woofhon> In reply to @nnsee "https://github.com/CzaxStudio/Ferrum-Studio/commit/": wow |
| 07:41:18 | FromDiscord | <czax225> In reply to @woofhon "wow": Thankyouuuuuuuuuu |
| 08:15:14 | FromDiscord | <ryano3797> sent a long message, see https://paste.rs/VwRMx |
| 08:15:52 | FromDiscord | <ryano3797> Anyways. Happy to continue this discussion, but maybe we should move it somewhere else so it doesn't hog the main thread? |
| 08:23:53 | FromDiscord | <crochubourbier> sent a long message, see https://paste.rs/8bNg7 |
| 08:24:18 | FromDiscord | <crochubourbier> (edit) "https://paste.rs/k31GF" => "https://paste.rs/68mL5" |
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| 09:19:47 | FromDiscord | <nnsee> sent a long message, see https://paste.rs/GSo3K |
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| 09:43:55 | FromDiscord | <ryano3797> sent a long message, see https://paste.rs/rtONM |
| 09:46:35 | FromDiscord | <nnsee> In reply to @ryano3797 "> i personally": i mean, sure, but you're comparing a single proc docstring (which is embedded in the source code for each proc) with a section header in a dedicated wiki |
| 09:47:41 | FromDiscord | <crochubourbier> In reply to @ryano3797 "> i personally": I mean, it says "if you don't know what it means, you shouldn't use it", but nothing stops you from doing a 30s google search on what pinning a thread on a cpu means |
| 09:48:21 | FromDiscord | <nnsee> In reply to @ryano3797 "> i personally": also, sorry, i mistyped |
| 09:48:43 | FromDiscord | <nnsee> programming language library documentation should _not_ be educating the user on general computer science stuff |
| 09:50:34 | FromDiscord | <nnsee> if i buy a car, i don't expect there to be a manual on how to drive a car, how to fix an engine, etc. i _do_ expect there to be a manual on how to use features that are specific to that car. the same way that if i look at the proc documentation for a specific module, i don't expect there to be tonnes of information on, well, generic topics that aren't specific to that programming language |
| 09:50:47 | FromDiscord | <0ffh> If the person wants to learn about CS stuff, they can invest a few seconds and look it up on the internet, which is negligible compared to the time to read and understand it. |
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| 09:52:28 | FromDiscord | <0ffh> Also, what is the limiting principle supposed to be?↵When we say "c = a + b adds a and b and assigns the result to c", should we then also explain what addition is? |
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| 09:53:56 | FromDiscord | <crochubourbier> it's even the opposite in general, the nim language itself assumes that the user isn't dumb and knows what he's doing, unlike go for example that doesn't even let you create a constant variable |
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| 10:35:41 | FromDiscord | <bung8954> I like the one sentence explaition of pintocpu, save time |
| 11:18:05 | FromDiscord | <crochubourbier> In reply to @crochubourbier "I have a question": so any idea ? |
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| 12:40:00 | FromDiscord | <i_am_zexel> In reply to @czax225 "[Announcement] Ferrum Studio –": would love to use it but i am on linux 💔 |
| 12:40:36 | FromDiscord | <i_am_zexel> i mean i can run it with wine but imo thats never worth it |
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| 14:31:34 | FromDiscord | <czax225> In reply to @i_am_zexel "would love to use": To build the app for Linux, the user needs Linux. No problem I have Kali. I will build the app today for Linux(debian) |
| 14:35:22 | FromDiscord | <i_am_zexel> In reply to @czax225 "To build the app": Alright if u can (and if ur willing to 🙏🏻) make it for arch as well |
| 14:35:37 | FromDiscord | <czax225> Ok bro no problem |
| 14:35:44 | FromDiscord | <i_am_zexel> Appreciate it |
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| 15:07:23 | FromDiscord | <spotlightkid> @czax225\: there is no `wails.json` in the repo. The build instructions do not work. |
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| 19:17:05 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @nnsee "https://github.com/CzaxStudio/Ferrum-Studio/commit/": Zig is/was hostile? |
| 19:17:28 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> From my small experience with them, aren't they a chill community? |
| 19:18:09 | Amun-Ra | same, zig is not rust |
| 19:23:04 | FromDiscord | <gesee37> In reply to @ryano3797 "No, the docs are": > If you don't know what this means, you shouldn't use this proc↵↵I don't find this offensive, I was laughing when reading this.↵I was like "thanks for the advice but no one tell me what to do, I want problems" 😂 |
| 19:24:57 | FromDiscord | <gesee37> In reply to @ryano3797 "No, the docs are": Well I guess it hits everyone different. Yeah sometimes it's too much but most times I just feel likes it's just funny |
| 20:32:36 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> sent a long message, see https://pasty.ee/WkwVSXiM |
| 20:32:55 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> (edit) "https://pasty.ee/kUpXcxVZ" => "https://pasty.ee/CkSQKZPL" |
| 20:34:56 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> It's true that it may filter some people, but... each community has their own quirk. Comming from one that basically treated and responded all newcomers as if they were clueless idiots, I prefer this so much sooooo much... |
| 20:35:12 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> (edit) "It's true that it may filter some people, but... each community has their own quirk. Comming from one that basically treated and responded ... all" added "to" |
| 20:36:11 | FromDiscord | <gesee37> In reply to @mr_rowboto "Same feeling here... I've": Yep sometimes once I learnt to nit take everything as they are written I found life way easier to live |
| 20:36:19 | FromDiscord | <gesee37> In reply to @mr_rowboto "It's true that it": Huh ? |
| 20:36:26 | FromDiscord | <gesee37> Which community ? |
| 20:36:31 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> Won't say |
| 20:36:33 | FromDiscord | <gesee37> Asking for a friend |
| 20:37:30 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> It's not a bad community, I actually like those guys, but they tend to be too harsh.↵It's a community related to bindings on native C libraries I used on the prev. version of my engine. |
| 20:37:58 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> (edit) "It's not a bad community, I actually like those guys, but they tend to be too harsh.↵It's a community related to bindings on native C libraries I used on the prev. version of my engine. ... " added "(nothing to do with nim)" |
| 20:39:25 | FromDiscord | <gesee37> Ah I see 🙄↵Lot of people going to the dark side of the moon.↵Apparently you when there and even if they are knowledgeable you still ask yourself how they feel in that darkness :p |
| 20:39:59 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> exactly |
| 20:40:09 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> it's exactly that |
| 20:40:37 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> my general feeling was that the community was so small, it lives in a state of frustration, them it retrofits that frustration into newcomers |
| 20:40:46 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> (edit) "my general feeling was that the community was so small, ... it" added "that" |
| 20:40:54 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> great software, no users |
| 20:41:06 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> (edit) "them" => "then" |
| 20:41:07 | FromDiscord | <gesee37> Well asking myself why :p |
| 20:41:23 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> multiple reasons, community is one |
| 20:41:58 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> there were technical reasons out of their domain too (problems with the language itself just not being good enough for sane bindings) |
| 20:42:23 | FromDiscord | <gesee37> Oh that hurt indeed |
| 20:42:33 | FromDiscord | <gesee37> Even me would drive mad |
| 20:42:44 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> yeah |
| 20:43:03 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> nothing they could do, the developers are REALLY good, but the platform is just... borked |
| 20:43:11 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> (edit) "platform" => "platform, the VM..." |
| 20:43:59 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> there's an ongoing effort to fix the VM of said lang, it's been 10 years... no release... |
| 20:44:08 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> (edit) "there's an ongoing effort to fix the VM of said lang, it's been 10 years... no release... ... " added "every year is "the year"." |
| 20:44:36 | FromDiscord | <gesee37> Well at that point just rewrite |
| 20:44:43 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> heheheehe |
| 20:44:53 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> if you knew _which_ VM we're talking about |
| 20:45:03 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> you'd see rewrite is _not_ an option lol |
| 20:45:13 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> 10.000 million devices |
| 20:45:20 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> there I said it lol |
| 20:45:31 | FromDiscord | <gesee37> What ??? JS ? |
| 20:45:38 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> n..no? |
| 20:45:52 | FromDiscord | <mr_rowboto> https://tenor.com/view/yoda-there-is-another-star-wars-jedi-gif-5140031 |
| 20:46:01 | FromDiscord | <gesee37> It's the only funky weird VM I know |
| 20:46:14 | FromDiscord | <gesee37> I mever used Java |
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