| 00:28:50 | Varriount | Demos: ping |
| 00:28:59 | Demos | Varriount: pong |
| 00:29:27 | Varriount | Demos: Do you know if nimrod can use the visual studio compiler, instead of gcc? |
| 00:30:05 | Demos | it can. cc:vcc. use the visual studio 64-bit native tools command prompt to get it on your path |
| 00:30:16 | Demos | I don't think the compiler can bootstrap using vcc though |
| 00:30:29 | Varriount | Demos: Thanks (it's not listed in help or advanced) |
| 00:30:42 | Demos | it is listed in the FAQ I think |
| 00:30:59 | Varriount | Demos: I'm not bootstrapping. But I need to compile a nimrod executable with windows debug symbols |
| 00:31:07 | Demos | oh geez |
| 00:31:09 | Demos | that is fun |
| 00:31:35 | Varriount | Demos: I need to make use of the windows debug symbols provided by microsoft as *.pdb files |
| 00:31:45 | Demos | yeah use passl and passc to pass "/Zi" I think you may be able to use "/C7" instead to get the baked into the file |
| 00:31:50 | Demos | oh? |
| 00:32:02 | Demos | I mean mingw will link with the regular old ms libraries |
| 00:32:20 | Varriount | Demos: But gdb can't load pdb files |
| 00:32:30 | Demos | or do you mean you want to generate pdb files? |
| 00:32:36 | Varriount | And the window's dlls are stripped |
| 00:32:49 | Demos | right, you need to use the symbol servers |
| 00:32:59 | Varriount | Demos: The program is failing *inside* an api call |
| 00:33:22 | Varriount | And gdb can't trace it, because it doesn't have symbol support for pdb files (that I know of) |
| 00:33:41 | Demos | well you can load up the executable in windbg, and get debug info for windows but not your nimrod executable |
| 00:34:24 | Varriount | Demos: Where do I pass /C7? |
| 00:35:52 | Demos | passc and passl, if using vcc or icl. you should try and get pdbs working first (/Zi) since they are better supported |
| 00:36:37 | Varriount | Oh yay. The vcc reports a divide by zero error |
| 00:37:11 | Varriount | In... excpt.nim? |
| 00:37:47 | Demos | it is a known issue I think... since like vc 7 |
| 00:37:59 | Varriount | And.. how do I get around it? |
| 00:38:03 | Demos | no idea |
| 00:38:23 | Varriount | Why must Microsoft make things so hard. |
| 00:38:49 | Demos | I think what is happening is that a preprocessor codepath that is never executed is dividing by zero. I got errors in the floating point identification functions. |
| 00:39:22 | Demos | try using gcc with -gcoff instead of -g |
| 00:39:37 | Varriount | Demos: This wasn't with gcc, this was with vcc |
| 00:40:11 | Demos | right |
| 00:40:24 | Demos | I am saying try and generate old style COFF debug symbols |
| 00:40:29 | Varriount | Oh. |
| 00:41:28 | Demos | and I have gotten debug symbols to work when using the intel c compiler.... |
| 00:42:06 | Varriount | Demos: By the way, did you know that winsock spawns background threads for certain procedures? |
| 00:43:46 | Varriount | Oh, and that the latest release of the windows sdk doesn't come with a compiler :/ |
| 00:44:15 | Demos | no.. it does |
| 00:44:38 | Demos | or wait, the windows SDK download? or the windows kits subdirectory |
| 00:44:40 | reactormonk | Varriount, wanna write some product? |
| 00:44:54 | Varriount | Demos: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/desktop/bg162891 |
| 00:45:06 | Varriount | The Windows SDK no longer ships with a complete command-line build environment. You must install a compiler and build environment separately. |
| 00:45:19 | Demos | oh look at that |
| 00:45:28 | Demos | yeah, install VS2013 express for desktop |
| 00:45:35 | Demos | or a higher version if you have access to one |
| 00:45:46 | Varriount | But I don't wanna! It's huge and unwieldy! |
| 00:46:48 | Demos | windows is not really designed to be a small system... you are fresh out of luck |
| 00:47:07 | Demos | the compiler in 2013 is at least a bit faster than the one in 2012 |
| 00:47:16 | Varriount | Demos: I don't suppose you could help me debug this? Since you have the tools set up? |
| 00:47:30 | Varriount | It's for the new async stuff for nimrod's stdlib |
| 00:47:45 | Demos | I am on my OSX partition atm, and I have to finish some work for tomorrow |
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| 00:50:09 | reactormonk | Varriount, some carthesian? ^^ |
| 00:50:22 | reactormonk | oh, that was on the "express" |
| 00:51:03 | Varriount | reactormonk: What? |
| 00:52:34 | reactormonk | Varriount, http://dpaste.com/1572542/ <- if you want to write the carthesian product :-) |
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| 01:01:42 | Varriount | reactormonk: I have an idea on how to write the procedure, but I don't know if it will have the maximum performance |
| 01:05:56 | reactormonk | Varriount, should do for now |
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| 01:53:00 | EXetoC | source code filters seems to take a very long time to process |
| 01:55:05 | Varriount | Anyone know how to properly pass a null value to a wrapped C proc? |
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| 02:04:38 | EXetoC | Varriount: as in null pointer? probably nil. pointer as pointer |
| 02:09:26 | EXetoC | including a ~120 line css template increases the compile time from 0.6s to 3.4s. that doesn't seem right. |
| 02:10:21 | EXetoC | I might investigate further. I haven't gotten the profiler to output anything other than the prelude text though |
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| 03:02:57 | shodan45 | hello #nimrod |
| 03:03:23 | shodan45 | I miss anything fun today? :) |
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| 03:41:55 | Varriount | shodan45: Not much. Today's been pretty quiet |
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| 08:01:25 | Araq | EXetoC: it is a known problem |
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| 09:36:50 | Mat3 | hi all |
| 09:59:04 | Araq | hi Mat3 |
| 10:07:23 | Mat3 | hi Araq |
| 10:09:19 | Mat3 | I'm think of creating a blog and website |
| 10:16:38 | Mat3 | (the website part seem to be an easy task in comparison to blogging) |
| 10:21:17 | Araq | cool, use dom96's blog generator |
| 10:21:48 | Mat3 | I'll try it |
| 11:22:15 | bbodi | hi Mat3 |
| 11:22:19 | bbodi | hi Araq |
| 11:22:36 | Mat3 | hi bbodi |
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| 13:03:18 | Mat3 | ciao |
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| 15:36:47 | EXetoC | Araq: ok |
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| 17:10:23 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel f89bb25 EXetoC [+0 ±1 -0]: Punctation -> punctuation. |
| 17:10:23 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel 5b3c34c EXetoC [+0 ±2 -0]: Punctation -> Punctuation; fix remaining typos. |
| 17:10:23 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel 9ac7d24 Simon Hafner [+0 ±3 -0]: Merge pull request #851 from EXetoC/highlite-typo... 2 more lines |
| 17:30:45 | Araq | EXetoC: I think you also need to update nimdoc.cfg |
| 17:34:53 | reactormonk | Araq, he did |
| 17:36:24 | Araq | oh ok |
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| 18:32:57 | reactormonk | http://dpaste.com/1575553/ <- gives me Error: cannot instantiate: 'T' on product.nim(28, 20) Info: instantiation from here |
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| 18:41:04 | Araq | reactormonk: bug report |
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| 18:43:35 | reactormonk | Araq, muh |
| 18:54:02 | reactormonk | Araq, any idea of a W/A? |
| 18:58:19 | reactormonk | works with var next: seq[T] = @[] |
| 18:58:21 | reactormonk | next.setLen(x.len) |
| 18:59:20 | reactormonk | lib/system.nim(1627, 7) Error: undeclared identifier: 'data' |
| 18:59:22 | reactormonk | O.o |
| 18:59:32 | reactormonk | rebooting koch |
| 19:00:21 | reactormonk | nope, still there |
| 19:03:08 | Araq | oh that is the known newseq in generic bug then |
| 19:03:22 | reactormonk | :-( |
| 19:03:30 | reactormonk | not too harsh, I only execute that one once |
| 19:03:40 | reactormonk | https://github.com/Araq/Nimrod/issues/854 |
| 19:06:15 | Discoloda | is it planned to embed code into the documentation? like http://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.6.0.1/docs/Control-Applicative.html |
| 19:06:15 | reactormonk | ^ this one is a bit of a WTF |
| 19:06:56 | reactormonk | Discoloda, no plans. You can make them, however. |
| 19:07:44 | Araq | Discoloda: already implemented, kind of |
| 19:07:56 | Araq | the docs get links to github |
| 19:08:08 | reactormonk | really? O.o |
| 19:08:17 | Araq | yes |
| 19:09:08 | reactormonk | http://nimrod-lang.org/hashes.html#102 where? |
| 19:09:29 | Araq | seriously? |
| 19:09:54 | reactormonk | apparently |
| 19:10:01 | shodan45 | "I'm stuck in a huge PHP codebase. Please send help." |
| 19:10:13 | Araq | so when will you learn how our release cycle works? |
| 19:10:44 | reactormonk | Araq, also no links in koch web on devel. |
| 19:11:12 | reactormonk | but that one is kinda hard to link. |
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| 19:19:24 | filwit | Araq: fixing more compiler bugs in my way, question: ast.nim:1383-1389 (aka: 'lastSon') should "assert n.sonsLen > 0" or return just nil? |
| 19:20:17 | Araq | assert I think |
| 19:20:34 | Araq | otherwise it would already return nil |
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| 19:20:56 | filwit | Araq: i don't think it does |
| 19:21:02 | filwit | but i will check real quick |
| 19:21:06 | filwit | one sec |
| 19:24:45 | filwit | Araq: i get SIGSEGV: (attempt to read from nil?) error without the sonsLen > 0 check in lastSon, though that could be from something else |
| 19:25:02 | filwit | my real bug is in skipTypes |
| 19:25:43 | Araq | no it is not |
| 19:25:45 | filwit | which i changed the while statement to check result != nil, which fixes my problem, but only if lastSon returns nil |
| 19:26:25 | Araq | the real bug is the incorrect construction of some type |
| 19:27:01 | filwit | lastSon just does: result = n.sons[sonsLen(n) - 1] |
| 19:27:07 | Araq | skipTypes shouldn't be bloated with additional checks |
| 19:27:08 | filwit | so if sonsLen == 0... |
| 19:27:51 | filwit | okay, i see |
| 19:27:53 | Araq | lastSon is undefined, if sonslen ==0, so deal with it |
| 19:28:05 | Araq | btw |
| 19:28:15 | filwit | what? |
| 19:28:19 | filwit | undefined? |
| 19:29:08 | Araq | the bug is likely tyTypeDesc is constructed without any child |
| 19:29:22 | Araq | but it is skipped over nevertheless |
| 19:29:28 | Araq | so fix that |
| 19:29:39 | Araq | tyTypeDesc now needs a dummy son |
| 19:31:09 | filwit | okay, i will look up the stack trace a bit further than skipTypes for a fix, but there should still be an assert in lastSon probably, so we get better errors. Agree? |
| 19:31:34 | Araq | *shrug* fine with me |
| 19:31:39 | filwit | k |
| 19:32:06 | * | Araq notices however it won't change the stack trace |
| 19:32:43 | filwit | true, but it says it's a known problem |
| 19:33:01 | filwit | makes more sense than if there's just some random compiler crash |
| 19:33:24 | filwit | at least to me, but you're right, not much changes |
| 19:33:38 | filwit | i just wanted to make sure you where okay with that change before making a PR |
| 19:37:27 | filwit | fuckit, you might be right, it almost just makes the stack trace harder to follow with the assert |
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| 19:41:36 | Araq | filwit: now you know why I am not a fan of enforced "not nil" |
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| 19:42:04 | Araq | it transforms "sigsev" to "internalError" in my compiler |
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| 19:42:21 | Araq | that's somewhat nicer for the compiler user |
| 19:42:33 | Araq | but only somewhat and fucks up my productivity |
| 19:42:37 | filwit | Araq: sorta, though it can help catch nil related bugs earlier if every proc checks not nil |
| 19:42:57 | filwit | though in this can i agree |
| 19:43:44 | Araq | also: a crash is much easier to debug than getting wrong results instead |
| 19:43:51 | filwit | since if you try to access this, you'll either get a (try to access nil?) alert of an assert failure regardless, and the assert failure is harder to trace (goes through two system.nim, etc) |
| 19:44:18 | Araq | so the idea of "safety" needs to be re-thought imho |
| 19:45:00 | filwit | Araq: okay, well i'm kinda at a loss here. I actually fixed my bug, but you said I shouldn't bloat skipTypes with a nil check |
| 19:45:05 | filwit | i'm not sure exactly why |
| 19:45:41 | Araq | well i told you, so reread |
| 19:47:57 | Araq | when I say skipTypes(t, {tyRef}) it means the type 't' has at least 1 child when t.kind == tyRef |
| 19:48:24 | Araq | if it hasn't then that's not skipTypes' problem |
| 19:48:37 | filwit | ah, okay |
| 19:48:37 | Araq | but the tyRef has been constructed incorrectly |
| 19:49:36 | filwit | i'm fixing bugs for my OOP stuff, so it's a bit hard to tell exactly where the node-tree is flawed (since my macros are constructing it) |
| 20:03:24 | Varriount | Anyone in here on a windows machine with a nimrod compiler built from the dev branch? |
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| 20:07:23 | Araq | Varriount: yes but I'm busy, sorry |
| 20:26:31 | Varriount | Gr. Why is it that I have an unexplainable feeling of irritation towards stackoverflow? |
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| 20:44:12 | EXetoC | Varriount: why? it beats yahoo answers, at least marginally |
| 20:47:35 | reactormonk | Varriount, got my "product.nim" , but it hit at least two compiler bugs :-/ |
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| 21:31:23 | Mat3 | hello |
| 21:32:25 | Araq | hi Mat3 |
| 21:34:35 | Mat3 | hi Araq |
| 21:37:55 | Mat3 | I'm asking me why you choose Nimrod as name (he was a person with ... ehm quite negative characteristics in almost all related myths) ? |
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| 21:39:02 | Araq | I wanted to name it after the first king of mankind ... turned out he built the tower of babel ... thought "very well, fits" |
| 21:40:25 | Araq | btw with more resources I would have named it after a god ... :P |
| 21:41:22 | Mat3 | *lol* |
| 21:51:03 | Mat3 | if you identify Nimrod with Naram-Sin than yes: It seems he was declared as God |
| 21:56:10 | Araq | dunno, I would have picked some god from stargate, I think |
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| 22:01:27 | Varriount | reactormonk: May I see you implementation? |
| 22:06:12 | Varriount | Araq: As names go, nimrod is pretty good |
| 22:06:48 | vbtt | the only meaning of nimrod I knew was 'dimwit' |
| 22:07:12 | Varriount | It's not too ambiguous (like c or go) |
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| 22:07:23 | dom96 | 'git' means something similar |
| 22:07:24 | vbtt | I didn't know about the other reference until I tried to figure out why this language would be called 'dimwit' |
| 22:07:30 | dom96 | (At least in the UK) |
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| 22:07:41 | Varriount | vbtt: Interstingly enough, that definition came up out of reference to king nimrod and his msitakes |
| 22:07:52 | Varriount | Sorry, fingers are frozen |
| 22:08:07 | vbtt | Varriount:ah i see, didn't know that. |
| 22:08:37 | vbtt | i didn't know what 'git' meant. |
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| 22:09:04 | Varriount | Hey Araq, is there any way to get a list of modified memory areas before and after a procedure call? |
| 22:09:23 | vbtt | i asked my wife what 'nimrod' means to her (born and raised in US) and she said 'someone stupid' |
| 22:12:02 | vbtt | still, 'nimrod' is more, um.. interesting name than 'go' or 'rust' |
| 22:12:18 | Araq | it never occured to me 'nimrod' could be an English word ... |
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| 22:12:48 | Varriount | vbtt: I forgot to tell you, I read the reddit post linking to your blog post on nimrod |
| 22:13:01 | vbtt | Varriount:oh cool. any comments? |
| 22:13:17 | Varriount | Well, I +1'd it |
| 22:13:24 | Varriount | and read through the comments |
| 22:13:35 | vbtt | Araq:but by now you're aware of the english meaning, i assume? |
| 22:13:54 | Araq | vbtt: yeah |
| 22:14:12 | vbtt | anyway, i thought it was a joke name of a joke i didn't know. |
| 22:14:19 | vbtt | i don't think the name matters, fwiw. |
| 22:15:10 | Araq | I'm playing with the idea to rename it to 'Nim' for version 1 fwiw, lol |
| 22:15:33 | * | Mat3 thinks that is a good idea |
| 22:15:47 | Mat3 | ^this |
| 22:15:51 | Mat3 | ^is |
| 22:15:57 | vbtt | hmm |
| 22:16:02 | OrionPK | i full support the name 'Nim' |
| 22:16:03 | vbtt | actually, i like 'nim' a lot more :) |
| 22:16:05 | OrionPK | fully* |
| 22:16:15 | vbtt | + it's short |
| 22:16:35 | vbtt | + doesn't mean anything to me |
| 22:16:46 | Araq | interesting |
| 22:17:14 | vbtt | + i can type it with my right hand only |
| 22:17:16 | OrionPK | reminds me of Nimh, as in the secret of |
| 22:17:17 | OrionPK | ;) |
| 22:17:59 | Araq | should register that url asap |
| 22:18:34 | vbtt | + has a more pleasant ring to it than 'nimrod' (which sounds a bit harsh) |
| 22:18:52 | OrionPK | nim is a nice name |
| 22:19:27 | Araq | "nimm" means "take" in german |
| 22:19:36 | dom96 | https://github.com/thomaslee/nim |
| 22:19:42 | dom96 | Could be a problem. |
| 22:20:28 | OrionPK | nah |
| 22:20:56 | Araq | he uses .nim, we use .nim since forever |
| 22:21:11 | Araq | so ... he has to find a better name, not us |
| 22:21:42 | dom96 | Nim feels a bit short and too close to 'vim' :P |
| 22:22:11 | Araq | another idea was of mine was hjk09 |
| 22:22:17 | Mat3 | ??? |
| 22:22:23 | vbtt | 'rim' also takes 3 letters from 'nimrod' |
| 22:22:46 | Araq | something that's produced when you bang your head on the keyboard, Mat3 |
| 22:23:28 | Mat3 | eh, ok |
| 22:24:29 | Varriount | Let's just keep 'nimrod', after all, the few articles out there reference it as that |
| 22:24:34 | vbtt | Varriount: thanks for the +1, btw. |
| 22:25:00 | vbtt | Varriount: the old links will just redirect, so it's not a problem. |
| 22:25:28 | Mat3 | why not just two names. I mean even C features two of them: 'C' and 'B after' |
| 22:25:45 | vbtt | hkj09 is a fun name too. but too many syllables when talking about it (not to mention different language speakers will say it very differently) |
| 22:25:53 | Mat3 | get some sleep, ciao |
| 22:25:58 | Araq | well it will be Nim* |
| 22:26:12 | * | Mat3 quit (Quit: Verlassend) |
| 22:26:16 | Araq | (*formerly known as Nimrod, but then optimized for popularity) |
| 22:26:19 | OrionPK | you should start a poll |
| 22:26:30 | OrionPK | to rebrand as "nim" to gauge popularity |
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| 22:27:16 | Araq | or we simply write Nim<small>rod</small> everywhere |
| 22:27:27 | dom96 | We will be fighting against all the implementations of the game "nim" when people search for it. |
| 22:28:02 | Araq | nimog then, dom96 |
| 22:28:15 | Araq | "nim optimized for google" |
| 22:29:29 | vbtt | nog |
| 22:29:53 | OrionPK | nimrod could still be in the metadata araq |
| 22:29:59 | vbtt | the game a different thing altogether. ppl will look for 'nim programming' |
| 22:29:59 | OrionPK | show up in search results |
| 22:30:12 | Araq | OrionPK: yeah sure |
| 22:30:15 | OrionPK | it's like KFC is just KFC technically, but everybody knows it was "kentucky fried chicken" |
| 22:30:16 | Varriount | I really hope you guys are joking around |
| 22:30:55 | Araq | Varriount: not really, a rename can help, think of firefox |
| 22:31:19 | Varriount | Firefox had money |
| 22:31:23 | dom96 | vbtt: Yep. And they will get results for implementations of the game in different programming languages. |
| 22:31:24 | Araq | but it should be 'nim' then or at least still start with 'nim' |
| 22:31:58 | dom96 | I think we should stick with 'Nimrod' |
| 22:33:02 | OrionPK | nimrod does kinda mean dumb person here |
| 22:33:21 | Araq | windows vista means windows chicken in Spain, iirc |
| 22:33:28 | OrionPK | yeah |
| 22:33:48 | Araq | so it's not like an unfortunate name is anything special |
| 22:33:54 | dom96 | Like I said: git means stupid person here |
| 22:33:56 | OrionPK | and toyota MR2 meant shitty in france |
| 22:34:28 | OrionPK | git doesnt mean stupid |
| 22:35:02 | vbtt | dom96:good point |
| 22:35:28 | OrionPK | actually I guess it does.. I always think of 'you old git' but i guess that means 'fool' |
| 22:36:46 | vbtt | nimble |
| 22:37:11 | dom96 | According to wiktionary: (UK, slang, pejorative) A silly, incompetent, stupid, annoying or childish person. |
| 22:37:43 | OrionPK | yeah, you're right |
| 22:39:06 | filwit | damn, seems i miss all the good conversations |
| 22:39:18 | filwit | i like the idea of rename to 'Nim', Araq |
| 22:39:25 | filwit | though idk ultimately |
| 22:39:31 | filwit | idc* |
| 22:40:10 | filwit | Nimrod is a common english "stupid" (family friendly) insult |
| 22:40:18 | dom96 | However, I must admit that the US has one of our main target audiences so if 'Nimrod' has that kind of meaning, depending on how popular and how strongly people are aware of this, that we should change the name. |
| 22:40:31 | OrionPK | " |
| 22:41:01 | Varriount | Being someone who lives in the US, although nimrod *is* a word, it is not a *commonly used* word |
| 22:41:08 | OrionPK | "nim" is a good shortening of the name.. maybe call it "Nim" the sub title underneath would be "nimrod programming language" or something |
| 22:41:35 | Varriount | In fact, I would even go so far as to label it 'archeic' |
| 22:41:41 | OrionPK | it's not archaic |
| 22:42:13 | filwit | then again, "nimrod" as an subtle insult to all programmers is almost fitting of Araq's at-times cynical attitude towards most other tech :P |
| 22:42:52 | OrionPK | lol |
| 22:42:57 | filwit | haha, i'm just joking really |
| 22:43:36 | filwit | when i first found Nimrod though, i did think it was intended as "Programming for an Nimrod (and dumb person)" |
| 22:43:54 | filwit | any* |
| 22:44:23 | filwit | "Programming for any* Nimrod (any* dumb person can do it)" |
| 22:44:37 | filwit | something along those lines |
| 22:44:40 | Varriount | What about "Nimbus"? |
| 22:45:14 | filwit | Nimbus sounds silly |
| 22:45:35 | filwit | only better thing about "Nim" i like over "Nimrod" really is that it sounds cooler |
| 22:45:42 | filwit | but honestly, it's just a name |
| 22:45:47 | Araq | I don't like that nobody gets the intended ironic reference to my megalomania |
| 22:46:09 | filwit | lol |
| 22:46:13 | Araq | so I might as well just change the name ... |
| 22:46:34 | filwit | should have named it Zeus, Araq |
| 22:46:58 | filwit | or just "King" |
| 22:47:37 | filwit | jk, obviously |
| 22:48:31 | dom96 | Somebody create a name submissions + voting website (in nimrod), submit it to HN with a description explaining the situation (asking people to come up with a new name for Nimrod), ????, profit. |
| 22:48:51 | OrionPK | nah it should keep the root of the name |
| 22:49:00 | OrionPK | it's either "nim" or "nimrod" |
| 22:49:03 | * | AndChat|206976 joined #nimrod |
| 22:49:19 | filwit | yeah, i really like "Nim" |
| 22:49:27 | OrionPK | same |
| 22:49:28 | filwit | personally |
| 22:49:57 | EXetoC | unique names ftw |
| 22:50:19 | filwit | just reverse the name and call it: Dormin |
| 22:50:22 | Varriount | Yes, however 'Nim' would be horrible hard to search for. |
| 22:50:33 | OrionPK | nah |
| 22:50:34 | dom96 | Call it Darwin. |
| 22:50:48 | OrionPK | nim lang or nimrod would still give good result s |
| 22:50:48 | filwit | bad idea |
| 22:50:50 | Varriount | Too many other computing projects named darwin |
| 22:50:57 | filwit | ^ |
| 22:50:58 | EXetoC | nimlang |
| 22:51:06 | filwit | ^ |
| 22:51:09 | AndChat|206976 | Ppl would search for 'nim programming language. |
| 22:51:09 | filwit | nim |
| 22:51:13 | EXetoC | searchability ftw :> |
| 22:51:18 | filwit | sounds cool, simple, unique |
| 22:51:29 | filwit | matches the existing file extention |
| 22:51:39 | * | AndChat|206976 is now known as vbtt__ |
| 22:51:45 | Varriount | Well, 'nimrod' is way better then some of the other language name's I've seen |
| 22:52:00 | Varriount | One in particular was called "crack" |
| 22:52:12 | vbtt__ | haha |
| 22:52:28 | Araq | I'm surprised by this reaction really |
| 22:52:44 | vbtt__ | yeah everyone loves 'nim! |
| 22:52:46 | Araq | I thought people will call me names for even considering a name change .. |
| 22:53:02 | vbtt__ | actually I thought you would resist.. |
| 22:53:13 | Varriount | Araq: Well, I would be disapointed/scared of a name change, but ultimately, it's up to you |
| 22:53:42 | Araq | Varriount: good :-) somebody has to take this position |
| 22:53:56 | Varriount | I just ask that you not make any hasty decisions, and get all the facts and possible outcomes lined up before choosing a road to follow. |
| 22:54:02 | vbtt__ | it's not even at 1.0. Name change is fine. |
| 22:54:35 | filwit | Araq: i think everyone here understands that a name change isn't a vote and is your thing, we're all just giving our opinions on it |
| 22:54:41 | Araq | Varriount: I have been thinking about this for months fwiw |
| 22:54:56 | Araq | it's not a hasty decision |
| 22:55:17 | Varriount | vbtt: Possibly, possibly not. A name change has the possibility of destroying what little presence we have in "the community" (whatever that is) |
| 22:55:18 | Araq | but IME decisions don't get any better when you think too long about it |
| 22:55:25 | * | Discoloda joined #nimrod |
| 22:55:36 | filwit | Araq: i've been thinking about a couple logo modifications too, so let me know if you change the name and I'll make a mock up |
| 22:56:10 | filwit | Araq: (just a couple changes to the crown vectors, they look slightly off to me and I would like to fix it up slightly |
| 22:56:13 | filwit | ) |
| 22:56:14 | EXetoC | ok choose one quickly then! bzfdq? ok good |
| 22:56:21 | filwit | ^ lol |
| 22:56:41 | filwit | name change process = smake head against keyboard. done |
| 22:56:52 | filwit | smack* (can't type right now) |
| 22:57:26 | Araq | EXetoC: it's more helpful when you just say you don't like a name change |
| 22:58:29 | Discoloda | In American English, however, the term assumed a derogatory meaning, probably because of Bugs Bunny's references to Elmer Fudd as a "poor little Nimrod" |
| 22:59:21 | filwit | Discoloda: yeah, we've been talking about how "Nimrod" is a petty-insult in english for awhile. |
| 22:59:45 | * | Discoloda slowpoke |
| 22:59:48 | filwit | only really bad thing i see about the name "Nimrod" is how easy it is to google. |
| 23:00:25 | filwit | changing to "Nim" and using "nim lang" for search would probably give more google-juice |
| 23:00:32 | filwit | like EXetoC said |
| 23:01:42 | filwit | anyways, enough about that, my bug is still unfixed >:| back to hunting |
| 23:02:03 | EXetoC | Araq: Nimrod is fine |
| 23:02:45 | filwit | Araq: Nimrod is a horrible horrible name, and if you don't change it, your language will fail horribly. no questions. |
| 23:02:48 | EXetoC | is my fairly rational opinion, but I don't mind sticking lang onto the end |
| 23:02:53 | filwit | :P |
| 23:02:55 | EXetoC | oh ok |
| 23:03:19 | Araq | "Attached is the PDF issue of Dr. Dobb’s Journal, with your Nimrod article as the cover story." ... uh oh |
| 23:03:40 | Araq | I'm the cover story?! |
| 23:03:46 | filwit | sweet! |
| 23:03:48 | EXetoC | that's neat |
| 23:04:04 | Discoloda | with the "horrible horrible name" |
| 23:04:37 | * | filwit hopes everyone understands he was just joking |
| 23:08:29 | Araq | why am I the cover story ... I show how to do pattern matching without unification in 20 lines of nimrod code |
| 23:10:40 | filwit | Nimrod is still not a well known language, but recently it's gotten some good press. maybe they're just trying to find new material? |
| 23:11:15 | filwit | either way, sounds like nothing but a good thing to me |
| 23:11:30 | Araq | nah, it's because I'm a genius :P |
| 23:11:37 | filwit | btw, isn't your StrangeLoop video suppose to be up by now? |
| 23:11:46 | filwit | that too, Araq, that too |
| 23:11:57 | EXetoC | filwit: it is |
| 23:11:59 | vbtt | awesome re: dr. dobbs. |
| 23:12:10 | filwit | EXetoC: Great! Link me please! |
| 23:12:33 | EXetoC | if this goes well, will everyone who has submitted at least ~3 patches be famous? maybe I'm hoping too much |
| 23:12:42 | EXetoC | actually, I'm not sure if I'd qualify. let me check |
| 23:13:00 | EXetoC | filwit: http://www.infoq.com/presentations/nimrod |
| 23:13:14 | filwit | awesome, thanks |
| 23:15:41 | filwit | as great as it is to see Araq give the speech, why does the camera not show the slides while he's talking? |
| 23:15:57 | filwit | kinda odd camera direction |
| 23:16:44 | EXetoC | there's a separate section for that |
| 23:18:05 | EXetoC | on the right side, and then you have indicators on the seek bar |
| 23:18:12 | EXetoC | pretty neat, huh |
| 23:19:31 | filwit | k, guess that works |
| 23:21:45 | Discoloda | when will the article be on drdobbs.com ? |
| 23:21:48 | * | brson joined #nimrod |
| 23:23:05 | EXetoC | how come almost no websites do 3d transforms with css? get with the times |
| 23:23:25 | * | vbtt__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 23:23:44 | Araq | Discoloda: 11th of february |
| 23:24:44 | filwit | EXetoC: cause HTML updates slower than everything else (plus not all browsers have supported them until recent months) |
| 23:25:11 | Araq | EXetoC: 3d transforms with css don't work with IE 6 which still has 88% market share |
| 23:25:13 | filwit | EXetoC: mostly likely it's cause there are still a lot of people using IE 9 |
| 23:25:17 | Araq | (just kidding) |
| 23:27:39 | EXetoC | but it's 3d |
| 23:28:04 | filwit | Tello almost uses it |
| 23:28:36 | Discoloda | EXetoC: we will not rest until we make youtube have spinning cube videos |
| 23:36:38 | EXetoC | http://keithclark.co.uk/labs/css3-fps/ bitchin' |
| 23:36:54 | EXetoC | (crashes my Fx) |
| 23:41:56 | Discoloda | nice |
| 23:42:07 | dom96 | Araq: Yes, you're a genius with a friend who told you to apply for Emerging Langs, and who spammed their twitter with news of Nimrod :P |
| 23:42:42 | Araq | alright alright, all praise to dom96 the pusher |
| 23:50:01 | * | Demos joined #nimrod |
| 23:50:48 | BitPuffin | EXetoC: buggy as fuck but woa |
| 23:51:34 | Demos | Varriount, ping |
| 23:51:38 | * | xenagi joined #nimrod |
| 23:51:40 | dom96 | Araq: I think after Dr Dobbs changing the name will be risky. |
| 23:52:04 | Demos | wowah are we thinking of changeing the name... Demos must read logs |
| 23:52:19 | BitPuffin | wtf |
| 23:52:23 | BitPuffin | now we are gonna change the name |
| 23:52:36 | BitPuffin | bikeshedding in it's purest form much guys? |
| 23:53:04 | Demos | I don't know yet... I just saw that one message and I am looking through the logs |
| 23:53:31 | filwit | dom96: while i tend to agree, it also could be an opportunity for more press. |
| 23:53:56 | Varriount | Demos: Do you have a windows build of nimrod on hand? |
| 23:54:01 | Demos | I do |
| 23:54:03 | Demos | hence the ping |
| 23:54:16 | Varriount | Sorry, I was working on homework |
| 23:54:49 | BitPuffin | Varriount: there is no excuse for that |
| 23:55:01 | filwit | dom96: "Nim 1.0 the new programming language formally know as 'Nimrod'", could be posted a few places and get some views. Then again, it could also confuse a lot of people. Hard to tell really. |
| 23:55:04 | Varriount | Anyway, can you test this gist for me? You should only need proactor.nim and socketsll.nim -> https://gist.github.com/Varriount/5ec6370dd37bb51cd947 |
| 23:55:15 | Varriount | Demos: ^ |
| 23:55:20 | * | darkf joined #nimrod |
| 23:55:22 | * | io2 quit () |
| 23:55:30 | Demos | OK let me boot the latest devel |
| 23:55:42 | BitPuffin | filwit: well at the same time, we could just redirect with the old domain or something |
| 23:55:49 | Araq | dom96: what is a "proactor"? |
| 23:55:51 | filwit | dom96: major product lines always change there brands at certain points when they want to market something "fresh", but it's also true that you want to stick with a brand while it's new. |
| 23:55:52 | BitPuffin | I don't think it should be changed though |
| 23:56:01 | BitPuffin | not so much because of the branding stuff though |
| 23:56:24 | Demos | what compiler do you want me to use |
| 23:56:24 | dom96 | Araq: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proactor_pattern |
| 23:56:31 | dom96 | Araq: We've already discussed your distate for the name IIRC |
| 23:56:37 | filwit | BitPuffin: that's true so long as it was switched to something like 'Nim' and not anything else. |
| 23:56:41 | dom96 | Araq: I will most likely change it. |
| 23:56:47 | BitPuffin | however I guess kind of like filwit is saying it can be good to market it as something fresh rather than saying that it's been evolving for like 10 years :P |
| 23:57:09 | Demos | I think changeing the name would show instability |
| 23:58:01 | BitPuffin | I think compiling my game would show instability |
| 23:58:11 | BitPuffin | unless the bug has been fixed now |
| 23:58:14 | BitPuffin | *ahem* Araq? |
| 23:58:31 | filwit | instead of 'Nim', you could switch to 'Rod' and try and get popularity by writing a bunch of sexual innuendos o~O |
| 23:58:56 | BitPuffin | genus |
| 23:59:00 | Discoloda | filwit: lol |
| 23:59:01 | BitPuffin | I mean genetalia |
| 23:59:02 | filwit | "'Rod 1.0', the strongest language" |
| 23:59:04 | BitPuffin | I mean genius |
| 23:59:12 | Demos | I mean Rust is named Rust... which has a somewhat similar probelm |
| 23:59:13 | BitPuffin | Rod 1.0: Rock Solid |
| 23:59:19 | filwit | ^ hahaha |
| 23:59:41 | EXetoC | BitPuffin: what about nimlang to mean either nimrod or nim, for the sake of searchability |
| 23:59:50 | BitPuffin | Rod 1.1: Now even more firm |
| 23:59:54 | dom96 | BitPuffin: You could try fixing the bug yourself. Araq has enough on his plate. |
| 23:59:56 | BitPuffin | wow I could keep doing this forever |