| 00:08:08 | Skrylar | dom96 / Araq: do you think state machine macros would be useful? |
| 00:08:14 | Skrylar | kind of like (link pending) does? |
| 00:08:30 | Skrylar | http://smc.sourceforge.net/ |
| 00:10:21 | Skrylar | it looks like it would be an easy macro to do |
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| 01:18:08 | Skrylar | why is it if i do type x = seq[y] |
| 01:18:17 | Skrylar | "x" is an invalid type name for a procedure |
| 01:20:36 | Skrylar | oh. ast bugs |
| 01:20:59 | Skrylar | malformed proc subtype, a sequence of malformed proc causes strange errors instead of warning that the proc is wrong |
| 01:27:11 | fowl | code |
| 01:28:58 | Skrylar | fowl: https://gist.github.com/Skrylar/9846618 |
| 01:31:36 | fowl | so it should say something about whats happening |
| 01:31:47 | Skrylar | it should say that the proc type is bad |
| 01:31:49 | fowl | like "hey you can store generic functions" |
| 01:31:52 | fowl | cant* |
| 01:32:05 | Skrylar | right now it just says "invalid type" and its like "whats invalid about it?" |
| 01:34:06 | fowl | yea |
| 01:34:11 | fowl | error messages can always be improved |
| 01:34:51 | fowl | id hardly call that an ast bug though |
| 01:35:24 | Skrylar | my reasoning was that the invalid proc was making a nonsense AST and then the compiler was going "what? this is wrong." and claiming it invalid |
| 01:35:41 | fowl | but it is invalid |
| 01:35:58 | Skrylar | yes, and it shouldn't have allowed the broken type to parse in the first place |
| 01:36:09 | Skrylar | instead it seems to pretend it knows what the proc definition is, only to get confused later |
| 01:36:31 | fowl | its not getting confused later |
| 01:36:52 | fowl | fhandler is generic, errors can only be caught when its instantiated |
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| 03:32:50 | runvnc | its probably bad form for me to try to promote nimrod in the rust vs go submission on proggit but I did it anyway |
| 03:32:59 | runvnc | tried to do it in a polite way |
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| 03:40:17 | Varriount | Araq: Ooo, shiny |
| 03:40:28 | Varriount | runvnc: Link? |
| 03:44:59 | Varriount | Skrylar: I think your problem may have indirectly been my fault. |
| 03:46:07 | Varriount | One of the few fixes to compiler I submitted was disallowing certain forms of generic procs (that were not fully concrete) from being created. |
| 03:46:43 | Varriount | However, I would like to think that the current error message is better than the previous behavior, which was the compiler crashing. |
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| 04:11:04 | runvnc | Varriount: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/21mn1e/rust_vs_go/ |
| 04:11:57 | runvnc | oh, this guy says he likes everything about nimrod except it needs more curly braces and semicolons |
| 04:11:59 | runvnc | for real |
| 04:12:01 | runvnc | lol |
| 04:12:24 | Varriount | Gah. |
| 04:12:37 | Varriount | runvnc: Hand me my axe, we are going a-hunting tonight. |
| 04:12:49 | runvnc | heh |
| 04:13:27 | Varriount | runvnc: Should I tell him that semicolons are allowed, and that curly-brace varient syntax is planned? |
| 04:13:38 | runvnc | oh is it really? |
| 04:13:40 | runvnc | I should have known |
| 04:13:46 | runvnc | seems like everything is in the works already heh |
| 04:13:52 | runvnc | yah someone should tell him |
| 04:13:59 | fowl | nimrod 2.0 will have a sandwich crafting module too |
| 04:14:04 | runvnc | haha |
| 04:16:07 | Varriount | runvnc: ./compiler/pbraces |
| 04:17:18 | Varriount | Also, a quick hack for allowing braces to be used (if indentation rules are followed) would be to run a nimrod file through a regex which deletes braces on empty lines. |
| 04:19:20 | runvnc | compiler pbraces is kind of funny in a way |
| 04:20:39 | renesac | I really need to write that 'whitespace FAQ' |
| 04:22:10 | Varriount | runvnc: "pendx" is also for pascal 'end' style code, I think |
| 04:22:42 | runvnc | hm. don't really get why people do that anymore |
| 04:23:19 | runvnc | I want my functions to be short so its easy to see where they end |
| 04:23:29 | runvnc | I also have text editors with code folding |
| 04:24:07 | renesac | #{ and #} can also be used, if you are identing right |
| 04:24:23 | runvnc | anyway to a certain degree that stuff is not so much a matter of objective judgement, but more like a belief system or worldview, depending on what you are used to |
| 04:24:25 | renesac | or a simple script to correct the indenting based on them |
| 04:27:54 | Varriount | renesac: Also, if you want to use tabs instead of spaces, you can just use a template filter and replace tabs with 2 spaces. |
| 04:29:01 | renesac | the !# thing? |
| 04:29:18 | renesac | can I use two template filters together? |
| 04:31:09 | Varriount | renesac: What do you mean? |
| 04:31:21 | Varriount | You just combine the code. |
| 04:31:30 | renesac | like, that tab filtering plus !#strongspace |
| 04:31:52 | Varriount | Hm. I *think* so |
| 04:32:33 | Varriount | renesac: http://nimrod-lang.org/filters.html#replace-filter |
| 04:32:47 | Varriount | "Filters can be combined with the pipe operator" |
| 04:33:14 | renesac | oh, interesting |
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| 06:00:53 | renesac | https://github.com/Araq/Nimrod/wiki/Whitespace-FAQ <-- started working on it, but still a draft |
| 06:03:37 | renesac | latter I would like a native english speaker reviewing this page, but not now |
| 06:04:09 | renesac | going to sleep |
| 06:11:01 | Varriount | renesac: I'll take a look, and edit as needed. |
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| 07:01:45 | reactormonk | hmm, that visualvm is a nice sampler for jvm - anything similar for nimrod/C? |
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| 08:28:36 | Araq | DAddYE_: https://github.com/Araq/Nimrod/wiki/Feature-Matrix |
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| 13:47:51 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel 2f64c75 Araq [+0 ±1 -0]: iterators check seqs/strings are not resized during iteration |
| 13:47:51 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel 74e0ca4 Araq [+0 ±1 -0]: fixes #932 |
| 13:47:51 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel f7cbe20 Araq [+0 ±1 -0]: Merge branch 'devel' of https://github.com/Araq/Nimrod into devel |
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| 14:34:23 | Araq | hi gverilla welcome |
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| 16:49:15 | OrionPK | Varriount did you ever get the ST plugin published? |
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| 17:16:37 | dom96 | hi |
| 17:19:44 | Skrylar | dom96: helloes |
| 17:20:12 | dom96 | hey Skrylar, how's things? |
| 17:20:26 | Skrylar | they're alright; fiddling around with this event code |
| 17:20:54 | dom96 | I just got back from a Uni talk. |
| 17:21:08 | Skrylar | I discovered something interesting: if you give parameters to do(), when handing it to a macro, it will allow you to use the parameters inside the macro but the macro is oblivious to this (it gets the inner stmtblock) |
| 17:21:14 | Skrylar | how'd the talk go? |
| 17:21:46 | dom96 | I wasn't giving the talk, if that's what you think heh. |
| 17:22:36 | dom96 | But the talk was good. Once more am excited about going to Uni. |
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| 17:43:46 | Varriount | Skrylar: Example of the do() thing? |
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| 17:48:14 | Skrylar | Varriount: blah(x, y) do(z): z.foo |
| 17:48:31 | Skrylar | Varriount: the AST you get is StmtList(DotExpr(!z, !foo)) |
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| 17:51:25 | Varriount | Ah. |
| 17:59:39 | EXetoC | Araq: ok a feature matrix is nice to have |
| 18:01:58 | EXetoC | I've used nested tuples a couple of times. it is a neat way of composing, but I suppose I can do without it |
| 18:06:29 | dom96 | Araq: Why didn't you post the feature matrix to the forum? |
| 18:07:26 | EXetoC | so much stuff. I sure hope you get some more compiler manpower soon :> |
| 18:15:27 | EXetoC | with that said, the things I'm looking forward to the most is working UDTCs, some lambda sugar and a couple of major fixes |
| 18:16:22 | dom96 | I guess I should finally finish this lambda sugar :P |
| 18:19:35 | dom96 | Araq: ooh cool. I may have an easier reproduction of that corruption. |
| 18:19:40 | dom96 | or perhaps it's a different one :P |
| 18:20:03 | dom96 | Araq: In tasyncawait.nim:25 s/true/false/ |
| 18:25:44 | dom96 | skyfex and runvnc: Thank you for supporting Nimrod in that reddit thread :) |
| 18:26:08 | skyfex | dom96: my pleasure :) |
| 18:27:11 | EXetoC | dom96: ya :> |
| 18:28:32 | dom96 | skyfex: I would disagree with you saying that Nimrod is less mature than Rust though. |
| 18:29:07 | dom96 | Although I haven't used Rust much so perhaps I'm wrong. |
| 18:31:56 | Skrylar | how can rust be considered mature when they are still making sweeping syntax changes? |
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| 18:32:09 | dom96 | precisely |
| 18:33:00 | Skrylar | additionally, the release versions are worthless because libs aren't maintained to them and they're often wholly incompatible with master |
| 18:35:29 | skyfex | dom96: Yeah, you're right, I guess I was thinking more of Go and D in that case |
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| 18:53:26 | dom96 | hello rleisti |
| 18:53:31 | rleisti | Hi |
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| 18:55:16 | Demos | argh I managed to get one of those wierd action-at-a-distance generic bugs |
| 18:55:51 | rleisti | Would anyone be interested in talking about the events module? I was wondering about the behavior of emit when an event isn't defined |
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| 18:57:53 | dom96 | rleisti: I think EInvalidEvent will be raised. |
| 18:58:34 | rleisti | yes; I was wondering what the rationale is for that. I think it could also be useful to raise events which don't (yet) have handlers |
| 18:59:36 | dom96 | hrm, perhaps you're right. |
| 19:00:05 | dom96 | Araq should be able to tell you more when he's around. Perhaps Amrykid will be able to as well if he's around. |
| 19:00:46 | rleisti | thank you |
| 19:15:29 | Demos | if I have a container what is the best way to be able to use an expression like cont[3] *= -1? do I need /another/ accessing proc that returns a var? |
| 19:17:39 | EXetoC | you might have to invoke `[]=`, which does make the expression a little longer |
| 19:18:14 | Demos | yeah cont[3] = cont[3] * -1 works, but that is hardly ideal |
| 19:18:23 | Demos | esp since it works for primitive containers |
| 19:18:27 | Amrykid | rleisti, yeah, i don't remember the reason why that is like that. feel free to submit a pr that changes that. |
| 19:18:54 | rleisti | ok. Thanks Amrykid |
| 19:25:46 | EXetoC | Demos: hm, seems like []= applies only to slices in system.nim. anyway, it might make sense to just expand such occurrences when []= is defined |
| 19:27:09 | EXetoC | I mean, both [] and []=, I think |
| 19:30:44 | Demos | yeah but it does make it /really/ hard to define your own containers that really act like the builtin ones |
| 19:31:50 | Demos | I guess that is not all that strange in the grand scheme of things, but c++ does out of its way to make user defined types work pretty much just like builtin ones |
| 19:32:04 | EXetoC | not if you expand it |
| 19:32:17 | Demos | what do you mean? |
| 19:32:38 | EXetoC | x[y] *= 2 -> x[y] = x[y] * 2 |
| 19:32:55 | Demos | yeah but I can say x[y] *= 2 for a builtin container |
| 19:33:35 | Demos | I guess I may be able to define a `[]` that returns a var T but that is just annoying |
| 19:33:53 | EXetoC | yes, but that's basically getting expanded to the above |
| 19:33:58 | EXetoC | so you just need it to be more general |
| 19:34:12 | Demos | right I guess. |
| 19:34:24 | Demos | But by that argument I should just write in C |
| 19:35:27 | fowl | whys that annoying |
| 19:35:42 | fowl | `[]=` is usually (a[idx]) = b anyways |
| 19:35:54 | Demos | fowl: yes |
| 19:35:55 | Demos | I know |
| 19:36:12 | Demos | oh wait you mean you define a `[]` then define `[]=` in terms of that? |
| 19:36:26 | fowl | i would (and do, in entitty) |
| 19:40:52 | Demos | yeah, probably I good idea. Also. I feel like defineing `+` (and `=` when we can) should get me `+=` for free |
| 19:40:55 | Demos | it does not seem to |
| 19:43:46 | renesac | yeah, `+=` seems defined as a proc, not a template |
| 19:44:40 | renesac | not sure if that is the problem |
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| 19:46:22 | Demos | the docs for `+=` in system seem to indicate it only works on ords and floats |
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| 19:49:34 | fowl | its only defined for ord and float |
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| 19:52:33 | Skrylar | hrm. |
| 19:52:43 | Skrylar | theres a lambda keyword listed in the manual, but it doesn't work |
| 19:52:49 | EXetoC | Demos: what argument? I'm saying that you can expand those occurrences so as to avoid returning var for example |
| 19:53:28 | EXetoC | *the compiler could expand.. |
| 19:56:06 | EXetoC | what are the alternatives? here's a really bad one: `[]+=`, `[]-=` |
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| 19:57:55 | Skrylar | I'm getting the impression right now that the compiler really needs some better scoping rules, because I keep finding issues like "proc (event: Event[Blah])" which errors; now, its not unsensible to say 'this identifier is claimed by a type' but more often than not the compiler just gives some vague "cannot instantiate" or "error in sem.nim no traceback" |
| 19:58:54 | Skrylar | i'm not sure what the overhead would be to just have it check against symbol misuse specifically |
| 19:59:02 | EXetoC | the latter is obviously an ICE |
| 19:59:24 | Skrylar | EXetoC: yeah, but the last ICE that happens was fixed with an error that is only marginally more useful :) |
| 19:59:27 | EXetoC | so that should obviously be fixed, but probably the former too |
| 19:59:49 | Skrylar | i feel unclean double-wrapping closures o_o |
| 20:00:49 | Skrylar | ostensibly it should be inlined because the closure just re-packs a value from a generic in to a direct call, so it seems like the vtable->closure->closure should get optimized out, but I still feel unclean relying on optimizers :B |
| 20:09:11 | EXetoC | check |
| 20:12:19 | EXetoC | if it's simple compared to other solutions then maybe it's worth it if at least GCC and VS can optimize it |
| 20:16:47 | EXetoC | but then can't you reduce it yourself then? |
| 20:17:01 | EXetoC | probably. yay metaprogramming |
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| 20:29:09 | dom96 | where is Araq? :( |
| 20:30:03 | EXetoC | having fun with nappies? |
| 20:31:33 | Skrylar | EXetoC: nah i'm having to wrench around generics |
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| 20:32:18 | dom96 | ooh, the GcMem warning is nice. |
| 20:32:39 | Skrylar | EXetoC: basically event data gets bit-copied in to a 16-int box so it can fit on the queue, and the double-closures are to map event UID -> closure which then re-types it so the user code is always typesafe |
| 20:32:57 | EXetoC | ok |
| 20:32:57 | Skrylar | basically just does proc: var x = <fiddlybits>; otherProc() |
| 20:33:01 | EXetoC | dom96: what's it for? |
| 20:33:17 | dom96 | a22.nim(2, 1) Warning: 'add(x, 4)' uses GC'ed memory [GcMem] |
| 20:33:24 | dom96 | When you disable the GC. |
| 20:33:27 | EXetoC | I suspected that. neat |
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| 20:42:23 | Demos | yo EXetoC! you should add a proc to get the name of a window to your GLFW wrapper |
| 20:42:48 | Demos | also maybe one to get the handle, just because I can cast[ptr pointer](wnd)[] does not mean I want to |
| 20:42:52 | Demos | :D |
| 20:48:26 | renesac | Skrylar, if you go the dynamic route with your GUI library, just be sure that it will not bloat static linked programs, like Qt does, as it can't eliminate dead-code as it may be selected to be used at runtime |
| 20:49:21 | Skrylar | renesac: i doubt thats a problem, since all 3 of the models i tested use the generics and template interface to strongly tie things together |
| 20:49:52 | Skrylar | there is no dispatch-via-string-table, you have to actually tie the event->closure together in a table |
| 20:50:44 | renesac | ah, nice |
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| 20:57:28 | EXetoC | Demos: ok |
| 20:58:14 | dom96 | BitPuffin: Yo |
| 21:03:42 | Araq | dom96: I'm here now |
| 21:04:08 | EXetoC | Demos: curious, what do you need the handle for? |
| 21:04:19 | EXetoC | I'll add a getter anyway. there's no need to be that restrictive |
| 21:04:32 | dom96 | Araq: Read what I said |
| 21:10:14 | Demos | EXetoC: hash, and I would not mind using the userdata stuff but you may already use it so I will stay away for now |
| 21:10:24 | Demos | and like getting the title of the window |
| 21:10:39 | Demos | or if I decided I wanted to use the native interop stuff |
| 21:10:44 | Araq | rleisti: welcome. just make a PR to the events module |
| 21:11:20 | Demos | on another note: how does one do perfect forwarding in nimrod |
| 21:14:12 | Demos | feel free to answer in the logs, ima go get something to eat |
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| 21:15:10 | EXetoC | hm "user data" in nimrod :> |
| 21:15:17 | Araq | I dunno about the "perfect" but I described what's necessary for forwarding in some forum thread and don't feel like thinking about it again |
| 21:26:19 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel e012611 Dominik Picheta [+0 ±1 -0]: Replaced idents with genSym in asyncdispatch. |
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| 21:49:54 | BitPuffin | dom96: oi! |
| 21:50:25 | Araq | Skrylar: if you use Event vs event, try out --cs:partial |
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| 21:56:11 | Demos | allright, so no forwarding for now |
| 21:59:19 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel 41861c7 Dominik Picheta [+1 ±0 -0]: Fix docgen. |
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| 22:24:51 | Araq | dom96: to what exactly is 'await client.socket.connect(url.hostname, port)' transformed? |
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| 22:39:16 | dom96 | Araq: var fut = client.socket.connect(url.hostname, port); yield fut |
| 22:39:30 | dom96 | Araq: The macro still outputs the generated code |
| 22:53:58 | reactormonk | btw, any plans for cs:partial to be default? |
| 22:55:58 | fowl | reactormonk, it is default in nimrod.nimrod.cfg |
| 22:57:55 | reactormonk | cool |
| 23:00:53 | dom96 | bah, so my closure macro doesn't work anymore? |
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