<< 29-06-2021 >>
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01:03:33Guest49Is the https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/lib/pure/mersenne.nim module going to be improved in 2.0?
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01:06:26FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Well what does it need, and are you capable of adding to it? 😄
01:07:33FromDiscord<pyautogui> Maybe. I was wondering if there was a plan in place.
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01:07:48FromDiscord<timotheecour> "just make a PR" is the usual answer
01:07:53FromDiscord<pyautogui> Got it.
01:08:54FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Nim is very community driven so many PR's to improve the stdlib are accepted, though Nim 2.0 seems like it'll make it a better process for doing such
01:09:57FromDiscord<timotheecour> what would nim 2.0 have that makes it easier to write PRs?
01:10:32FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Well the suggestion araq has is to make the stdlib a distribution so destructive but beneficial changes would be more acceptable afaik
01:12:49FromDiscord<Rika> Are there any issues preventing that or is it a total go for 2.0?
01:13:13FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Well 2.0 is still just and idea and not a thing yet 😄
01:13:18FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> (edit) "and" => "an"
01:13:31FromDiscord<Rika> I don’t see how that is relevant to what I asked
01:13:47FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Well not having a bundler is a big issue 😄
01:13:52FromDiscord<timotheecour> ... but nothing prevents one from contributing PRs until this grand vision comes to life (honestly, that's still vague from my point of view)
01:14:38FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> So probable nimble is also a blocking issue for the bundler
01:15:08FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Yea ofc people should still make PRs, as they mentioned 2.0 i just explained what the implications of that forum post say
01:16:45FromDiscord<timotheecour> I think https://github.com/nim-lang/RFCs/issues/291 is a key ingredient for nimble
01:28:11FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> i barely can find the keyway so i have no idea what's key 😄
01:33:00FromDiscord<exelotl> We can improve the mersenne module by deleting it
01:33:10FromDiscord<exelotl> Mersenne Twister is trash :P
01:36:24FromDiscord<Rika> Lol
01:43:49FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Exelotl tell us how you really feal 😛
01:44:52FromDiscord<Rika> Exquisite spelling ability as usual beef
01:47:37FromDiscord<exelotl> I probably said this before but I feel like people only remember it because it has a catchy name
01:48:19FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Lol i wanted to get water more than type properly 😄
01:48:40FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> +36c here right now, so i'll place all blame on that
01:50:10FromDiscord<exelotl> It's so slow and has such hefty memory requirements compared to every other PRNG, yet it's not even cryptographically secure! What's even the point lol
01:50:31FromDiscord<exelotl> Ok mersenne rant over
01:50:40FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> How goes goodboy galaxy?
01:51:10FromDiscord<exelotl> Pretty good, boy :)
01:52:08FromDiscord<exelotl> Well we're still inching towards the kickstarter but we're so very close now
01:52:46FromDiscord<exelotl> We made a company which is pretty exciting too!
01:53:05FromDiscord<exelotl> (Well we had to as a prerequisite for the kickstarter)
01:55:07FromDiscord<exelotl> Our publisher had some test carts made and confirmed that saving works on real GBA carts using SRAM or FRAM
01:55:59FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Will physical carts also get a digital key?
01:56:16FromDiscord<exelotl> Yeah, for sure
01:59:13FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @exelotl "It's so slow and": Well it’s old
02:01:19FromDiscord<exelotl> Yeah I guess it was good compared to the other algorithms around 2001 or whenever it was released
02:02:08FromDiscord<exelotl> Oh 1997
02:02:10FromDiscord<Rika> 19k7
02:02:13FromDiscord<Rika> Dammit
02:02:19FromDiscord<Rika> Pressed k instead of 9
02:02:38FromDiscord<exelotl> I'm only 2 years older than it :P
02:02:59FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Jeez what a dinosaur
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02:05:59FromDiscord<exelotl> I wish I could've done something for NimConf but too much happening at the moment and I couldn't get a new version of my library out in time, let alone write a talk about it
02:06:07FromDiscord<exelotl> Maybe next year
02:14:52arkanoidI'm confused my the difference of func/{.noSideEffect.} and {.raises[].}
02:15:00arkanoids/my/by
02:15:36FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> What confuses you?
02:16:16arkanoidthat seems overlapping
02:16:22FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Func is a "pure"(Like functional programming function) procedure, `raises[]` tells you the procedure cannot have any errors so if anything inside of it has an error it'll report it
02:17:18FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> They do vastly different things, noSideEffect does not let you mutate any state not passed in as mutable, raises does not let the procedure have any uncaught exceptions
02:19:31arkanoidthe "raises" and "tags" pragma are the main componens of the effect system (https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#effect-system). They are meant to declare the effects of the preocedure and enforce the presence or absence of them. "noSideEffect" does the same, in a black/white fashion
02:22:17FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> !eval func a = raise newException(ValueError, "This is an error")
02:22:19NimBot<no output>
02:22:53FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I dont quite follow where the overlap is
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02:25:25arkanoidSo what you're saying is that the "noSideEffect" thing is unrelated to the "effect system"
02:25:50arkanoidis this unlucky naming of things?
02:25:52FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Afaik yes, it's a pragma to annotate whether the function is pure
02:26:20FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> `noSideEffect` is talking about pure functions, like those in functional languages, where they do not mutate global state
02:26:57FromDiscord<Hi02Hi> In reply to @arkanoid "is this unlucky naming": you mean noSideEffect is the unlucky naming
02:27:00FromDiscord<Hi02Hi> (edit) "naming" => "naming?"
02:28:16arkanoidI know "effect tracking" and "no side effects" concepts in theory, and in other languages. They surely overlap there, as changing global state is an "effect" too
02:29:00FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Exception handling may be considered in strictfuncs as impure, but i dont know
02:29:05arkanoidI'm just confused how nim has those in different chapters of the manual, with overlapping names but apparently no overlapping features
02:30:52FromDiscord<Rika> Effects and exceptions are separate
02:32:03FromDiscord<Rika> Ah I misread
02:33:31FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/3rqE
02:33:38FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> emulator currently does 21,000 instructions per second
02:33:41FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> not great
02:34:16FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I thought it was nimdiotic 😄
02:34:19FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> If it seems readable, I think I'll add some more instructions, enough to get lInux running
02:34:34FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> oh
02:34:36FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> You did bench it on release right?
02:34:41FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> almost sounds like "idiotic"
02:34:44FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> no?
02:34:46FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> That was the joke
02:34:47FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> How do I do that?
02:34:52FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> haha
02:34:57FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> good one
02:34:59FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> `nim c -d:release ...`
02:35:24FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Probably also want `-d:lto` if on linux/windows or `--passC:-flto` and `--passL:-flto` on mac
02:35:49FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> does release not catch exceptions?
02:35:53FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> It still does
02:35:54FromDiscord<Rika> It does
02:36:11FromDiscord<Rika> Just lacks stack traces I believe
02:36:28FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> https://github.com/BracketMaster/nimulatorPPC/blob/main/src/nimulatorPPC.nim#L41
02:36:39FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> I catch instructions emulated as an exception
02:36:45FromDiscord<Rika> That will work
02:36:49FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> as -\> after
02:37:00FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> doesn't seem to print with release
02:37:17FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> If exception handling didnt work with release that'd be a nightmare
02:37:20FromDiscord<Rika> You probably didn’t flush the standard output
02:37:36FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Yea `stdout.flush` should ensure it works properly
02:37:45FromDiscord<Rika> Flush file
02:37:51FromDiscord<Rika> Flush is for streams
02:38:03FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> I know what happened - lol
02:38:04FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> one sec
02:38:05FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Ah, cause why not have a different name for no reason
02:38:21FromDiscord<Rika> Because it’s a file duh
02:38:33FromDiscord<Rika> Funny beef saying nonsense
02:38:43FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> what's the way to set a ctrl-c hook?
02:39:11FromDiscord<Rika> https://nim-lang.org/docs/system.html#setControlCHook%2Cproc%29
02:39:46FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Well rika you know very well `flushFile(f: File)` is redundant
02:40:04FromDiscord<Rika> I’m joking just so you know
02:40:13FromDiscord<Rika> I can’t tell if you know
02:40:21FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Nah you're a meanie and insult me daily!
02:40:35FromDiscord<Rika> I mean you’re so easy to bully
02:40:46FromDiscord<Rika> It’s difficult to resist
02:42:35FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> roughly the same speed
02:42:38FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> True, i'm a big self deprecating target of indifference
02:42:48arkanoidlol
02:43:12FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Well how can i benchmark this?
02:43:27FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Time to whip out treeform's hottie and put it to work
02:44:00FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> @\_discord\_145405730571288577\:t2bot.io , are you asking how to benchmark nimulator?
02:44:17FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I believe so
02:44:37FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> `nim c -d:release r src/nimulatorPPC` then type something for maybe a couple seconds, and finally press ctrl+c
02:44:43FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> it should tell you cycles/second
02:44:46FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> as an output
02:44:48FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> ok
02:44:57FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> or more accurately, instructions/second
02:45:38FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> modern CPUs execute on the order of 100M+ instructions per second
02:46:00FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> around 22k/second is alright for a purely software emulator
02:46:22FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> with ASM jitting, you can hit up to 10M+ instructions per second
02:46:55FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> and with a verilator optimized hardware model, you hit around 250k instructions per second, for some context
02:47:55FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> @\_discord\_145405730571288577\:t2bot.io , you might need the PPC gnu assembler to build a binary
02:49:32FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Excuse me i've just learned my package manger is borked
02:49:41FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I need to go kick my pc a for a few minutes
02:49:48FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> lol
02:49:54FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> apt?
02:50:52FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Ah nvm i'm just a dummy
02:51:21FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> I can drop a firmware.bin.tar.gz link if needbe
02:51:37FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> installing cross compilers can be a pain
02:52:57FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I've got it
02:53:12arkanoidI've simplified my cross-compiling dev experience using nix
02:53:46FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Ah LTO is really what's needed
02:54:50FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> from 130k/s to 450k/s
02:55:07FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> LOT?
02:55:18FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> \\LTO
02:55:49FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Link time optimization, on linux you should be able to do `-d:lto` if using gcc, with clang you'll need to do `--passC:-flto` and `--passL:-flto`
02:56:12FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Due to how nim C code is generated it gives proper performance
02:57:00FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Then `-d:danger` gets us to 470k/s on my machine
02:57:51FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> oooh... 400k cycles per second!!
02:57:57FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> that is really fast!
02:58:09FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> lemme try danger
02:58:10FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Let's do it better and faster 😄
02:58:30arkanoidwhat do you think of https://koka-lang.github.io ?
02:58:39FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> danger breaks things - lol
02:58:48FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> but I got 725k
02:59:21FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> first glance?
02:59:25FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> I sorta like it
03:00:17FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Havent looked at the code yet, main thing was to get you to learn how to actually run Nim code 😛
03:01:46FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> anyways, 400k cycles per second is defnitely enough to run linux
03:03:09FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> in emulation
03:05:22FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Ok so bitpat pairings is a table for literally 0 reason afaic
03:05:28FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> make it an array
03:05:32FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> free speed
03:05:55FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> hmm - alright
03:06:17FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Well it's remove `{}.toTable` and replace with `[]` and the api is 100% identical
03:06:31FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> So you get the exact same logic/connection without any hashing
03:07:05FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Atleast assuming all the values from `mnemonic_enums` are used
03:07:08FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @ElegantBeef "Ok so bitpat pairings": Bit what?
03:07:32FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> That's the filename `bitpat_pairings`
03:07:49FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> @\_discord\_259277943275126785\:t2bot.io - that's how I do my decoder
03:08:02FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> https://github.com/BracketMaster/nimulatorPPC/blob/main/src/isa/bitpat_pairings.nim
03:08:16FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> also, shoudln't `nim c --profiler:on --stacktrace:on -r src/nimulatorPPC.nim` give me a stack trace?
03:08:49FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> and profiler results?
03:08:49FromDiscord<Rika> What do you get?
03:08:59FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> nothing...
03:09:06FromDiscord<Rika> Oh you need to import the profiler as well
03:09:19FromDiscord<Rika> Odd quirk but eh
03:09:21FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Yea just use a C profiler or checkout `treeform/hottie`
03:10:40FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Though hottie did not work for me
03:10:43FromDiscord<Rika> Why not call it spottie though
03:10:48FromDiscord<Rika> Would be cooler IMO
03:10:51FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> It's for hot path finding
03:11:06FromDiscord<Rika> Big brain call it hot spot finding
03:11:12FromDiscord<Rika> Ez
03:11:30FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Though for whatever reason it doesnt work on this project, so either something is wrong with the linux impl or something is wrong with how this program is ran 😄
03:12:15FromDiscord<reilly> Does anyone have any resources I can read for using Nim on the GPU?
03:12:18FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> yeah, importing nimprof seems to break stdout
03:12:26FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> nimsl
03:12:32FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> That'll be it all for nim on gpu
03:12:39FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Think there are some other transpilers
03:16:22FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Ah i was being dumb
03:16:24FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Works fine
03:16:43FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I'm more often dumb than smart, why does anyone listen to a word i have to say
03:16:52FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> You're right, nimprof shows the hash is probably taking up 29% of the simulation
03:17:03FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Well it's needless
03:17:19FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> You have an enum -> value, that's a free index lookup in nim
03:19:07FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Yea without lto or danger went from 130k to 190k with just changing the `{ }.toTable` to an `[]`
03:19:41FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> nice 2.3million now
03:19:50FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> (edit) "2.3million" => "2.23million"
03:20:03FromDiscord<Rika> Damn
03:20:25FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> Is it Nim, or is it bracket master?
03:20:36FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> lol - jk
03:20:58FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> @\_discord\_145405730571288577\:t2bot.io , diff me your changes?
03:21:27FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> It's literally open `bitpat_pairings` and replace `{}.toTable` with `[]`
03:21:49FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Like there is no elaborate code changes, Nim's arrays can be enum indexed
03:22:04FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> so since you dont pass this around and just access it, it's free
03:22:31FromDiscord<Rika> Thinking about it a bit
03:22:47FromDiscord<Rika> Why would the hash function of an enumeration be different from its integer value
03:22:58FromDiscord<Rika> The result of the hash function I mean
03:22:59FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> I also got 2.5M
03:23:02FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> without danger
03:23:19FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> 3M with
03:23:23FromDiscord<Rika> Now slap LTO on it and get billions (I kid)
03:23:28FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Think that's with lto
03:24:24FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Time to run a profiler to see where the slowdown is now
03:26:41FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Ah yes 43% is spent in blank https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/859273642088726528/unknown.png
03:27:37FromDiscord<Rika> This code doesn’t exist
03:27:56FromDiscord<Rika> The program spends its time on contemplating whether it dies after running or not
03:28:23FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> blank?
03:28:43FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Hottie didnt find a stacktrace in the objdump for what that is
03:28:46FromDiscord<Rika> Can you see the image
03:28:47FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> how do I fix that?
03:28:54FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> That's an issue for hottie
03:29:04FromDiscord<Rika> “Remove all the white space only lines in your code”
03:29:08FromDiscord<Rika> I’m kidding
03:29:47FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> ah
03:30:26FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I'd argue though the `from X import Y` isnt very idiomatic Nim, but that's probably just cause i'm a lazy tosser
03:30:43FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> ha, you're probably right
03:30:55FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> also all the snake case 😛
03:31:12FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> When this is done, nimulator codebase will have roughly 4000 functions
03:31:24FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> I wanted to keep my sanity when importing functions
03:31:38FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> POWER has 900 instructions, so roughly 5 functions per instruction
03:31:49FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Well yea i cannot force you to write code the way i want, if i wanted to do that i'd have written this library
03:32:53FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> https://github.com/BracketMaster/nimulatorPPC/blob/main/src/utils/rawTerm.nim#L7↵Probably should just do `stdin.getFileHandle.cint` instead of the cast
03:33:30FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> that would make sense
03:34:56FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> https://github.com/BracketMaster/nimulatorPPC/blob/main/src/cpu/decoder.nim#L20-L24↵Also what's this?↵shouldnt this just be `Pairings[instruction] == insnInfo`
03:35:18FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Also why are you putting an assertion in a try block
03:36:51FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Defects are not meant to be caught they're meant to be avoided properly, they're sanity checks not to be used as exceptions
03:36:51FromDiscord<Rika> Assertions are defects, you might not be able to catch them
03:37:36FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Yea some flag disables them which might be why your danger build is borked
03:38:36FromDiscord<Rika> Maybe there should be a warning when something that only raises a defect is the sole raiser in a try block
03:38:39FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Probably, but i just dont get the point here
03:38:50FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Raise the assertion to catch the assertion
03:39:32FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3rqT
03:40:02FromDiscord<Rika> Pretty much
03:41:00FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> The iterating over all the instructions seems like another place for a slowdown
03:41:23FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> And hottie said iterators was 3% of your programs runtime so wouldnt doubt it
03:43:33FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Wonder if you can just do an `array[0..instructions, OpCode]` then just check if instruction is in that range
03:51:49FromDiscord<@bracketmaster-5a708063d73408ce4> `if not opCodeFound: raise newException(NimulatorError, "Op code not found")` does seem like a better patter
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05:03:59fn<ForumUpdaterBot99> New Nimble package! websock - Websocket server and client implementation, see https://github.com/status-im/nim-websock
05:04:00fn<R2D299> itHub: 7"Websocket for Nim"
05:23:38FromDiscord<Bung> hmm we got 3 or 4 websocket lib
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06:07:40FromDiscord<Richard> Hey, does anyone know if Nim has a machine learning for beginners type of tutorial?
06:17:22FromDiscord<Bung> I think they just beginning https://github.com/SciNim/getting-started/issues/19
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06:21:39FromDiscord<treeform> In reply to @ElegantBeef "Ah yes 43% is": blank usually means OS code, like waiting for file read or some thing.
06:21:51FromDiscord<treeform> or a sleep() call
06:32:07FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> @treeform do i have a bug for you 😛 single line puppy stack smashing
07:02:04FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> In reply to @Bung "hmm we got 3": This one is using chronos
07:03:00FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> kind of dope
07:05:39FromDiscord<Bung> use chronos then it's fine , as chronos use its own async pragma
07:06:06FromDiscord<Bung> requires "nimcrypto"↵requires "bearssl"↵requires "https://github.com/status-im/nim-zlib" I dont know why these in dependencies
07:07:19FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> I assume that maybe status is using/going to use this in nimbus and they are probably just using the same dependencies everywhere
07:10:41FromDiscord<Bung> oh, I checked these are really in used.
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08:26:52FromDiscord<KnorrFG> do we have a min function, were we can explicitely pass the comparison operator instead of implicitely using `<` ?
08:29:43FromDiscord<KnorrFG> nvm. found algorithm.sort
08:57:26PMunchFinally have time to watch all the Nim talks from NimConf :)
09:00:39FromDiscord<Rika> good for you 😦
09:08:15FromDiscord<gogolxdong (liuxiaodong)> Anyone familiar with blake3?
09:13:36PMunch@Rika, haven't had time to watch them yet?
09:21:15FromDiscord<stu002> Can someone give me more insight into the error message `Error: no tuple type for constructor`? I'm preparing a Gist that shows the error in context, i.e. passing 2-tuples of floats to a function.
10:00:14FromDiscord<haxscramper> @stu002 what is the function signature?
10:00:29FromDiscord<haxscramper> `func a(a, b: float)` and you are passing `(float, float)` to it?
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10:32:30fn<ForumUpdaterBot99> New Nimble package! sync - Useful synchronization primitives, see https://github.com/planetis-m/sync
10:32:31fn<R2D299> itHub: 7"Useful synchronization primitives."
10:34:11FromDiscord<planetis> How do I check this\: https://gist.github.com/planetis-m/42b675403212e018b5b9c9cc2378dffc does or doesn't make an huge copy
10:35:33FromDiscord<richard stallmen(crazy GNU guy)> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3rsL
10:38:14PMunch@planetis, I guess you could use getOccupiedMem in strategic places
10:39:54FromDiscord<planetis> i mean how to make sure it doesn't create a X in the stack and then copyMem to the allocated space
10:39:59FromDiscord<richard stallmen(crazy GNU guy)> i did define it
10:40:43FromDiscord<richard stallmen(crazy GNU guy)> var↵ Farenheit: float32
10:43:05FromDiscord<planetis> wait my stack size is 8MB. so if it did, it should crash
10:48:12FromDiscord<planetis> yep slightly changing it to use a temp causes segmentation fault
10:48:22FromDiscord<planetis> so nim has inplace
10:50:36FromDiscord<planetis> myth busted
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11:07:37FromDiscord<stu002> In reply to @haxscramper "`func a(a, b: float)`": The context of the error is at https://gitlab.com/-/snippets/2142177
11:08:06FromDiscord<stu002> (edit) "In reply to @haxscramper "`func a(a, b: float)`": The context of the error is at https://gitlab.com/-/snippets/2142177 ... " added "Please excuse probably non-idiomatic Nim"
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11:21:19FromDiscord<planetis> old style concepts are afaik going to be removed
11:26:34FromDiscord<haxscramper> In reply to @stu002 "The context of the": Which line at least gives the error?
11:26:50FromDiscord<haxscramper> Reproducible example would be better
11:28:13FromDiscord<haxscramper> This gives the same error https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3rsV
11:29:33FromDiscord<haxscramper> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3rsW
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12:42:07PMunchAh bummer, NiGui doesn't have mouse move events?
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12:44:29PMunchWhat do the cool kids use in Nim nowadays for UIs?
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12:55:25PMunchHmm, the integer/float remainder system that @impox is using in his talk is interesting indeed
12:55:33PMunchDefinitely should have its own writeup
12:55:54ozzz_I try to use NiGui. I'm old to be young lol, maybe that's why I not found that limitation :)
12:56:24PMunchWell I'm trying to do something a bit out of the ordinary
12:56:35PMunchDefinitely seems a lot more useable than last time I looked at it
12:56:54ozzz_It works definitely
12:57:13PMunchBut I want to create a small graph with moveable nodes as part of my program, and I need some mouse move event to move the nodes around in the graph
12:57:31ozzz_Sounds interesting
12:57:54ozzz_I'm doing image generation too
12:58:10ozzz_XY graph, non inetractive
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13:00:15PMunchOh cool, what're you using it for?
13:01:25ozzz_I not finished it yet, but in plans to integrate libjpeg or libpng
13:02:00ozzz_It should be small triode calculator, with frequency response graphs
13:02:08PMunchThere is an example in NiGui on how to save PNG images from an internal image
13:02:28PMunchOh cool
13:02:52ozzz_yeah, I tested that. Not very fan of tmp folders
13:03:27ozzz_Unfortunately nigui don't has methods to work with ram
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13:20:04FromDiscord<juan_carlos> I dont know who created it, but thanks for creating `importutils.privateAccess` is very useful. :)
13:26:48FromDiscord<konsumlamm> it was timothee
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13:55:32FromDiscord<dom96> In reply to @juan_carlos "I dont know who": what is it? 😮
13:56:05FromDiscord<pietroppeter> how do you use the strdefine in nimscript? an option like --d:myVar=myval how does it translate with the switch syntax?
13:57:11FromDiscord<pietroppeter> (for the record switch("d:myVar", "myVal") does not work
13:57:30FromDiscord<pietroppeter> and I cannot find clues in docs: https://nim-lang.org/docs/nims.html
13:59:52FromDiscord<dom96> https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/lib/std/importutils.nim#L23
13:59:53FromDiscord<dom96> cool
14:00:48FromDiscord<dom96> @timotheecour your contributions are appreciated 🙂
14:00:59FromDiscord<haxscramper> In reply to @pietroppeter "and I cannot find": Have you tried `switch("d", "myVar=myVal")`
14:01:02FromDiscord<haxscramper> (edit) ""myVar=myVal")`" => ""myVar=myVal")`?"
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14:05:44FromDiscord<pietroppeter> tried now, it does not throw error but it does not work
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14:06:55FromDiscord<pietroppeter> wait on a smaller test it works
14:07:03FromDiscord<pietroppeter> I will try again
14:07:56FromDiscord<pietroppeter> yeah, it works, thanks!
14:26:52FromDiscord<aleclarson> is there a built-in proc for type assertion? ideally one that narrows the type of the variable it receives to avoid compiler warnings after the assertion
14:28:06FromDiscord<aleclarson> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3rtD
14:29:03FromDiscord<aleclarson> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3rtE
14:29:36FromDiscord<aleclarson> i'm doing dynamic dispatch, so overloads are not an option
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14:46:44fn<bung99> why not use generic type?
14:47:03fn<bung99> proc foo[T](arg:T)
14:47:45FromDiscord<aleclarson> the idea is to raise an error if an invalid type is passed
14:48:37FromDiscord<aleclarson> even if i used a generic type, wouldn't any procs i pass the generic variable to still need to have overloads for each possible type?
14:51:18fn<bung99> maybe try template with typed arg I think
14:52:00FromDiscord<haxscramper> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3rtH
14:52:16FromDiscord<haxscramper> `import std/[macros]` is required for `{.error` IIRC
14:54:46FromDiscord<aleclarson> i'm looking for a runtime typecheck that also changes the type of the variable in lines following the typecheck. i think the `is` operator is what i want, but not sure
14:55:04FromDiscord<aleclarson> (edit) "i'm looking for a runtime typecheck that also changes the type of the variable in lines following the typecheck. i think the `is` operator ... is" added "combined with `if` statement"
15:00:47FromDiscord<haxscramper> nim is statically typed language, you would need to box all types
15:01:14FromDiscord<aleclarson> i am \:)
15:01:16FromDiscord<haxscramper> `is` runs at compile-time regardless of whether you use `when` or `if`
15:01:29FromDiscord<aleclarson> oh interesting
15:01:33FromDiscord<haxscramper> `argOfBoxedType is int` wont' work
15:01:50FromDiscord<aleclarson> but using ref objects, it will?
15:01:51FromDiscord<haxscramper> And you can't overload `is` - https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#procedures-nonoverloadable-builtins
15:02:02FromDiscord<haxscramper> In reply to @aleclarson "but using ref objects,": no, is runs at compile-time
15:02:08FromDiscord<haxscramper> for ref objects you can use `of`
15:02:20FromDiscord<aleclarson> ah ok, thanks a lot
15:02:27FromDiscord<haxscramper> for boxed variants (recommended solution) you can use `.kind in {expectedKinds}`
15:03:31FromDiscord<aleclarson> hmm it says `"of" takes object types` when i try using a `ref object` type with it
15:03:59FromDiscord<haxscramper> can you show error&code?
15:04:12FromDiscord<haxscramper> `value of Type`
15:04:39FromDiscord<haxscramper> What is your use case btw?
15:05:08FromDiscord<aleclarson> https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3rtV
15:06:41FromDiscord<aleclarson> In reply to @haxscramper "What is your use": i have a `Table[string, proc (arg: Box): Box]` where each proc may require different arguments, so they need to do runtime type-checking
15:07:00FromDiscord<haxscramper> `proc Foo = ref object of RootObj`?
15:07:51FromDiscord<haxscramper> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3rtY
15:08:11FromDiscord<aleclarson> oops, my bad. lemme see if i can repro it correctly
15:08:16FromDiscord<haxscramper> In reply to @aleclarson "i have a `Table[string,": I would suggest you use variant for boxing
15:08:39FromDiscord<haxscramper> like this https://nim-lang.org/docs/macros.html#the-ast-in-nim
15:08:45FromDiscord<aleclarson> i don't like object variants for this use case, because variants can't share the same property name
15:09:04FromDiscord<aleclarson> how's it better?
15:09:17FromDiscord<haxscramper> aside from property names?
15:09:43FromDiscord<haxscramper> I hope we get #368 implemented this year
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15:12:11FromDiscord<aleclarson> i mean, why do u suggest object variants instead of inheritance
15:12:59FromDiscord<haxscramper> it is faster, easier to reason about (no need to have dozens of separate types for couple shared fields)
15:13:33FromDiscord<haxscramper> The argument of shared fields only useful when you have inheritance graph of depth 3 or more, otherwise putting shared fields on top would give you the same object size
15:14:01FromDiscord<haxscramper> You can check for sets of object variants, while for inheritance you require `of ... or of ...` checks
15:14:17FromDiscord<haxscramper> While inheritance does work with pattern matching it is an ugly solution
15:14:58FromDiscord<haxscramper> inheritance almost always requires `ref`, while variant types can be by-value (store on stack, no need for heap alocations etc).
15:15:25FromDiscord<haxscramper> `case` statically checks that all variants are handled, where with `of` check you are left on your own
15:16:54FromDiscord<haxscramper> I'm sure there is more, but that's main points that are usually important for me for choosing variants vs inheritance
15:17:14FromDiscord<haxscramper> I've rarely seen inheritance used, and I don't think I've ever seen it used for boxing
15:17:46FromDiscord<haxscramper> RTTI works only on refc gc, but not on arc/orc. Though I'm not really sure about that part, maybe I'm wrong here
15:19:01FromDiscord<haxscramper> In reply to @haxscramper "You can check for": Also using variants allows you to have an `array[BoxKind, T]` that is extremly conventient for any sort of mappings, while with inheritance you would need to rely on
15:19:25FromDiscord<haxscramper> idk what, but I doubt it is as concise and cheap as `array` mappings
15:19:38FromDiscord<haxscramper> which are as cheap as you can possibly get to begin with
15:19:58FromDiscord<konsumlamm> note that Nim doesn't support variance annotations (eventhough the experimental docs mention it afaik)
15:20:03FromDiscord<konsumlamm> (edit)
15:24:53FromDiscord<aleclarson> interesting points, thx
15:27:24FromDiscord<aleclarson> any idea why this template fails? https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3ru0
15:28:32FromDiscord<haxscramper> `proc (arg {.inject.}: string): void =` https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#templates-hygiene-in-templates
15:28:53FromDiscord<aleclarson> ahh very nice ^^
15:31:53FromDiscord<aleclarson> `of` doesn't seem to actually change the variable type within the `if` statement. how come?↵https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3ru2
15:32:51FromDiscord<aleclarson> oh i forgot to export the property, but it's still not working
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15:36:45FromDiscord<haxscramper> In reply to @aleclarson "`of` doesn't seem to": Why should it?
15:37:07FromDiscord<haxscramper> `if` checks for object runtime type, that's all
15:37:10FromDiscord<haxscramper> (edit) "`if`" => "`of`"
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15:38:04FromDiscord<aleclarson> i don't see the point of `of` if it doesn't let me access a subtype's property \:S
15:38:59FromDiscord<aleclarson> so the only workaround is casting inside the if block?
15:39:30FromDiscord<haxscramper> it is not "workaround". The point of `of` is to check object runtime type
15:39:53FromDiscord<haxscramper> No additional flow analysis is performed to implicitly convert types
15:40:41FromDiscord<haxscramper> If you need to tread supertype as a subtype, you can do `Subtype(ident).myField` to access subtype fields
15:51:46FromDiscord<Zoom> To clarify, currently I use `spawn`, but I'd like the thread to get reaped for me without passing any messages. Will it work?
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16:04:27FromDiscord<aleclarson> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3rug
16:05:10FromDiscord<aleclarson> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3ruh
16:05:13FromDiscord<aleclarson> (edit)
16:06:23FromDiscord<haxscramper> I don't really understand how it is supposed to work, but looks like this would not be possible
16:10:09FromDiscord<aleclarson> is it possible to have a forward declaration for an `object` type?
16:11:33FromDiscord<timotheecour> https://nim-lang.github.io/Nim/manual_experimental.html#package-level-objects but it's probably gonna be replaced by something better
16:13:30FromDiscord<aleclarson> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3ruk
16:14:38FromDiscord<aleclarson> In reply to @timotheecour "https://nim-lang.github.io/Nim/manual_experimental.": what if they're in the same package
16:14:58FromDiscord<aleclarson> (edit) "package" => "file"
16:15:47FromDiscord<timotheecour> In reply to @aleclarson "can i "spread" the": no, use a macro for that (which is a more flexible design than hard-coding some spread syntax)
16:16:23FromDiscord<timotheecour> In reply to @aleclarson "what if they're in": try it and let us know ; i'd (lightly) expect it to wok
16:16:25FromDiscord<timotheecour> (edit) "wok" => "work"
16:20:17FromDiscord<aleclarson> the docs aren't clear on whether an {.experimental.} pragma is required for package-level objects
16:21:38FromDiscord<timotheecour> PR's welcome to improve docs; IIRC it's not needed, but IMO should be
16:21:51FromDiscord<Zoom> K, thanks, seems I need to add message consuming to a thread just to kill it \:/
16:24:12FromDiscord<aleclarson> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3ruo
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16:27:20FromDiscord<timotheecour> you're using it wrong though
16:28:07FromDiscord<aleclarson> tried with `type Pack.A = object` but got "unknown package name"
16:28:21FromDiscord<aleclarson> where Pack.nim is the filename
16:30:07FromDiscord<aleclarson> i'm not using devel branch, so that may be the problem
16:30:40FromDiscord<timotheecour> see tests/package_level_objects/
16:31:09FromDiscord<timotheecour> it doesn't need devel, it's been there for a while.
16:32:26FromDiscord<aleclarson> does the `.nimble` file need to be in the same directory, or will it be found in parent directory?
16:32:48FromDiscord<timotheecour> parent should be ok; again, PR's very welcome to improve docs
16:43:19FromDiscord<timotheecour> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3rus
16:43:28FromDiscord<timotheecour> (edit) "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3rus" => "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3rut"
16:43:52FromDiscord<timotheecour> (edit) "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3rut" => "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3ruu"
16:45:41FromDiscord<haxscramper> https://botwars.io/Language/Details/nim was linked in the tg chat, maybe someone would find it interesting
16:45:47FromDiscord<haxscramper> It has nim support
16:48:29fn<Prestige99> huh interesting
16:58:56FromDiscord<aleclarson> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3ruA
16:59:07FromDiscord<aleclarson> (edit) "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3ruA" => "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3ruB"
16:59:13FromDiscord<haxscramper> common approach is to put multiple objects in single type section
16:59:38FromDiscord<aleclarson> ya i'm not a fan \:)
16:59:44FromDiscord<haxscramper> Why?
16:59:58FromDiscord<aleclarson> no logical reason, lol
17:00:54FromDiscord<haxscramper> Well, whatever, but you are trying to use experimental and probably-going-to-be-deprecated feature over recommended approach
17:01:45FromDiscord<aleclarson> you're referring to package-level objects? are you saying types within the same "type section" can reference each no problem?
17:01:54FromDiscord<aleclarson> (edit) "you're referring to package-level objects? are you saying types within the same "type section" can reference each ... no" added "other,"
17:02:05FromDiscord<haxscramper> https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#type-sections
17:02:15FromDiscord<haxscramper> > Type definitions can be recursive or even mutually recursive. Mutually recursive types are only possible within a single type section.
17:03:06FromDiscord<haxscramper> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3ruD
17:03:08FromDiscord<aleclarson> kinda strange it doesn't work between type sections, but thanks for blowing my mind
17:03:58FromDiscord<haxscramper> For it to work between type sections, we would have to either implement C-like forward declarations (that's that `{.package.}` does mostly)
17:04:21FromDiscord<haxscramper> But in overwhelming majority of use cases you can save yourself trouble and just put things in `type` section
17:04:39FromDiscord<aleclarson> I'm a fan of the typescript approach, where order of types does not matter \:P
17:04:49FromDiscord<haxscramper> MAJOR pain to wrap forward-declared C types though, but that's another story
17:05:21FromDiscord<aleclarson> (edit) "does not matter" => "never matters"
17:07:40fn<ForumUpdaterBot99> New post on r/nim by RattleyCooper: Why does nim hate underscores?, see https://reddit.com/r/nim/comments/oacjbs/why_does_nim_hate_underscores/
17:16:37FromDiscord<timotheecour> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/3ruJ
17:17:13FromDiscord<timotheecour> (edit) "http://ix.io/3ruJ" => "http://ix.io/3ruK"
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17:21:37FromDiscord<aleclarson> yeah that was before i knew that type sections allowed that \:)
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19:18:06fn<ForumUpdaterBot99> New thread by Niminem: How to get Name and Value from Variable for macro/template, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/8172
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20:18:11FromDiscord<aust9n> Hi there
20:18:30FromDiscord<aust9n> I am trying to write a wrapper for the bittorrent utp library and im not sure how to do it
20:18:38FromDiscord<aust9n> If anyone can point me in the right direction, that would be great!
20:20:32FromDiscord<timotheecour> nimterop or c2nim
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22:29:22FromDiscord<exelotl> old style concepts feel like a game of Baba is You https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/859561201855889418/Screenshot_from_2021-06-29_23-28-35.png
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22:36:28FromDiscord<reilly> Treeform's Pixie is cool and all, but it would be nice if it was GPU-accelerated. Is there any way I could "port" it to the GPU without having to reinvent the wheel?
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23:23:38FromDiscord<guzba> no, that is a huge undertaking. someday we'll have a gpu-accelerated version but for now you can cpu-render then upload as texture and gpu away to your hearts content
23:24:53fn<ForumUpdaterBot99> New question by DuckPuncher: Can I unpack `varargs` to use as individual procedure call arguments with nim?, see https://stackoverflow.com/questions/68186716/can-i-unpack-varargs-to-use-as-individual-procedure-call-arguments-with-nim
23:25:16federico3guzba: that would make it ineffective
23:27:07FromDiscord<guzba> do you mean pixie ineffective and how so? unless you need to re-render the image every single frame which is not common, it'd be great to just rasterize once then use over and over
23:27:20FromDiscord<guzba> (edit) "common," => "for sure,"
23:27:31FromDiscord<guzba> (edit) "for sure," => "often required,"
23:27:49FromDiscord<guzba> for example, render some text in pixie, upload to gpu, then use that text as texture to display in game for the rest of the time
23:33:04FromDiscord<stefantalpalaru> I'm on devel and `./koch runCI` fails with `Nim/tests/test_nimscript.nims(6, 13) Error: cannot open file: stdtest/specialpaths`. Am I missing a step?
23:33:25FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Sounds like it's missing the booted version
23:33:51FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> `./koch boot -d:release` or similar to poop out a version in `bin/`
23:34:08FromDiscord<stefantalpalaru> I even tried `. ci/funs.sh && nimInternalBuildKochAndRunCI` like in GitHub Actions.
23:35:05FromDiscord<stefantalpalaru> No, it builds the compiler just fine. The failure is when it tries to do `nim e tests/test_nimscript.nims`
23:36:23FromDiscord<stefantalpalaru> Wait, I didn't set the PATH.
23:36:25*stkrdknmibalz joined #nim
23:36:42FromDiscord<reilly> federico3: what guzba is describing is exactly what Fidget does, and unless Treeform is lying to me, Fidget is fast enough for games. It's not as fast as doing everything on the GPU, though; it's more of a halfway-house.
23:38:36FromDiscord<reilly> What I'm looking after is to use Pixie for games. The reason I don't want to use Fidget is because Fidget doesn't let me use a lot of Pixie's functionality, and for making games, I want those features. (Stuff like masking, gradients, tiling, blurs, glows, etc.)
23:38:42FromDiscord<reilly> (edit) "after" => "for"
23:40:38FromDiscord<timotheecour> In reply to @stefantalpalaru "I'm on devel and": `./koch --nim:bin/nim runCI`
23:41:01FromDiscord<stefantalpalaru> Yeah, it was the PATH.
23:41:22FromDiscord<timotheecour> you don't need to set PATH though with `--nim`
23:41:28FromDiscord<stefantalpalaru> Cool.
23:45:00FromDiscord<timotheecour> (which allows passing custom binary names, eg: `--nim:bin/nim_tmp`)