| 00:00:07 | libman | attn apotheon: notice I use parenthesis to make the language on the rejected page more readable. |
| 00:03:23 | libman | AL2 is the license about which I'll probably end up doing the most nagging, as it's currently #3 in nimble with 3.763%. I'd rephrase the text on the copyfree.org page further: |
| 00:03:26 | libman | 'Apache License 2.0 sections 4.2 and 4.4 violate [Copyfree Standard Definition](add hyperlink) point #3 ("Free Modification and Derivation") by specifying conditions (beyond licensing) that must apply to modifications.' |
| 00:03:58 | libman | Shoot, sorry, the last 3 lines weren't intended for this channel... ::shame:: |
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| 07:39:15 | Arrrr | "command line(1, 2) Error: A module cannot import itself" |
| 07:39:37 | Arrrr | Before this weekend i could. |
| 07:39:51 | Arrrr | I mean, i did not have this problem. |
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| 07:53:07 | Araq | Arrrr: does the module import itself or not? |
| 07:53:35 | Arrrr | No, i did not change anything this weekend. I git pull today |
| 07:53:48 | Arrrr | And i dont have self importing modules |
| 07:54:58 | Arrrr | At least that i aware of. It may be because of the path = "$projectDir" ? |
| 07:55:07 | Arrrr | I have no problem with projects without it |
| 07:56:50 | Araq | how to reproduce? |
| 08:01:25 | Arrrr | I think i know how. In my .cfg, i imported a module, and later used path = "$projectDir" |
| 08:01:54 | Arrrr | In a black project, if i dont import before setting the path, i dont have this issue |
| 08:01:59 | Arrrr | *blank |
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| 08:05:17 | Arrrr | http://pastebin.com/u8VYt367 |
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| 08:06:40 | Arrrr | It doesn't matter the order between path/import |
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| 09:12:24 | vegansk | Hi! Why I can't do ``cast[cstring](p)``, where p is pointer? I must use cast like this: ``cast[ptr char](p).cstring``. Is it by design? |
| 09:12:34 | Araq | Arrrr: well other implicitly imports other due to your config |
| 09:12:40 | Araq | the compiler is technically right |
| 09:13:30 | Araq | vegansk: what's the error message? |
| 09:14:38 | vegansk | Oops, sorry, p.cstring doesn't work |
| 09:16:38 | vegansk | Because cstring is magic |
| 09:17:39 | Arrrr | So i have to choose between implicit module import and implicit directory import? |
| 09:19:29 | Araq | import in the config shouldn't cause a self import, but it seems hard to support |
| 09:21:32 | Arrrr | Well, i had no problems with it for months. I guess people here doesn't use folders and don't mind relative imports |
| 09:23:00 | Araq | I'm working on it, ok? |
| 09:33:08 | Arrrr | Ok, thanks. |
| 09:33:39 | Araq | fixed. |
| 09:33:39 | NimBot | nim-lang/Nim devel 154db46 Andreas Rumpf [+3 ±1 -0]: fixes a regression that caused --import in a config file to break things |
| 09:34:08 | Arrrr | You don't have to if you dont want. I'm complaining because i feel it is actually useful at least for something bigger than a lib. |
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| 09:36:19 | Araq | regressions are bad. |
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| 09:46:51 | yglukhov | Araq: so. any opinion regarding the pr? =) |
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| 09:52:28 | NimBot | nim-lang/Nim devel d6074a7 mogud [+0 ±1 -0]: make koch build quietly |
| 09:52:28 | NimBot | nim-lang/Nim devel 7d76f49 Andreas Rumpf [+0 ±1 -0]: Merge pull request #4667 from mogud/devel... 2 more lines |
| 09:52:46 | NimBot | nim-lang/Nim devel 90b0a77 Yuriy Glukhov [+0 ±2 -0]: Uncaught exceptions in JS now always propagate with better stack trace. |
| 09:52:46 | NimBot | nim-lang/Nim devel 8bff930 Yuriy Glukhov [+0 ±3 -0]: Fixed js codegen issue for uncaught exceptions. |
| 09:52:46 | NimBot | nim-lang/Nim devel 62785be Yuriy Glukhov [+0 ±1 -0]: Restore framePtr after exceptions |
| 09:52:46 | NimBot | nim-lang/Nim devel c1dd65c Yuriy Glukhov [+0 ±1 -0]: Reset framePtr on unhabdled exception. Dont reset on getStackTrace. |
| 09:52:46 | NimBot | 4 more commits. |
| 09:53:04 | NimBot | nim-lang/Nim devel 8f86e0f Matthew Baulch [+0 ±1 -0]: Rewrite cyclicTree. Performance improved by approx 50%. |
| 09:53:04 | NimBot | nim-lang/Nim devel 701109e Matthew Baulch [+0 ±1 -0]: Remove (unused) swapOperands proc. |
| 09:53:04 | NimBot | nim-lang/Nim devel 5e0a062 Matthew Baulch [+0 ±1 -0]: Remove (unused) flattenTree proc. |
| 09:53:04 | NimBot | nim-lang/Nim devel e1a5732 Matthew Baulch [+0 ±1 -0]: Remove unused procs getProcSym, getOpSym. |
| 09:53:04 | NimBot | 4 more commits. |
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| 10:01:54 | yglukhov | oh cool. thanks! |
| 10:05:49 | chemist69 | NimBot rocks! |
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| 10:54:44 | yglukhov | Araq: here's another one please: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/4670 |
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| 13:51:43 | NimBot | nim-lang/Nim devel e92a7fd Andreas Rumpf [+0 ±3 -0]: nimsuggest improvements |
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| 14:02:57 | krux02 | Araq: would it be feasible to implement top level defer to a call to atexit |
| 14:04:02 | krux02 | I suggested it in this thread: forum.nim-lang.org/t/2500 |
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| 14:20:42 | Araq | feasible: yes. but I don't like the 'runForever' use case |
| 14:21:06 | Araq | too much magic |
| 14:21:35 | Araq | also thinking about it: running the main loop in an atexit handler seems to be madness |
| 14:25:13 | NimBot | nim-lang/Nim devel f12f27c Yuriy Glukhov [+0 ±2 -0]: Fixed getCurrentException and getCurrentExceptionMsg. Closes #4635 |
| 14:25:13 | NimBot | nim-lang/Nim devel 283f8e9 Andreas Rumpf [+0 ±2 -0]: Merge pull request #4670 from yglukhov/js-getcurex... 2 more lines |
| 14:25:30 | krux02 | Araq: aside from the 'runForever', I would really like to have defer at top level to just work, no matter how stupid the use case is. I also once tried it, and would have liked it to work. |
| 14:27:58 | Araq | we could collect top level statements for the main module in an implicit main proc |
| 14:28:32 | Araq | this way we don't need to tell benchmarkers "don't use top level statements" anymore |
| 14:28:46 | Araq | and 'defer' would work too as a side-effect |
| 14:34:06 | krux02 | I honestly don't know how it is done at the moment, but an implicit main proc sounds like a good idea. |
| 14:34:15 | euantor | Sounds good to me too |
| 14:34:42 | krux02 | But how will it work with global variables? |
| 14:35:48 | krux02 | will the code generator have a declaration free implicit main? |
| 14:40:09 | krux02 | I think I am thinking too far already, but global variables that are neither exported nor accessed from other functions, can become local variables in the implicit main function. |
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| 16:58:21 | derlafff | hi. are tables thread-safe? |
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| 17:06:33 | dom96 | derlafff: Shared tables are IIRC https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/lib/pure/collections/sharedtables.nim |
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| 17:48:27 | PMunch | Hmm, any ideas how to write a backend for a collaborative editing system? |
| 17:51:32 | libman | Using an in-memory database for lowest latency and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server-sent_events ? |
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| 17:52:25 | libman | (Assuming you're married to the in-browser client paradigm.) |
| 17:52:35 | PMunch | That was the plan |
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| 17:53:17 | PMunch | My problem is doing the sync of different peoples edits.. |
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| 17:54:58 | libman | You have X users editing document simultaneously. All X of them have X copies of the document in IndexedDB. When one updates, changes are sent to the server, which then SSE-sends them to the remaining X-1. |
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| 17:55:45 | libman | It's of course faster to transfer diffs, but you should probably start with whole-document sync first (which you'll need as fallback anyway). |
| 17:56:52 | PMunch | But what happens if two people edit at the same time |
| 17:56:55 | libman | Server can be smart enough to compute JS to update modified sections, but that can make things more complicated. |
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| 17:57:28 | PMunch | Hmm |
| 17:57:30 | libman | From the server perspective, there's no such thing as "at the same time". Someone's update arrived a nanosecond sooner or later. |
| 17:57:47 | PMunch | Yeah, but you'd still have to figure out which version to use.. |
| 17:57:48 | libman | (In case of extremely rare collisions, flip a coin, LOL.) |
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| 17:58:29 | PMunch | Haha :P |
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| 18:08:01 | libman | My connection sucks. :( |
| 18:08:40 | libman | You need to separate the problem into modules, Software Engineering 101. You have the server module with the in-memory database (that gets synced to disc asynchronously), you have the basic client-side edit interface, you have the sync mechanism between clients and server, and THEN you have the diffing logic. |
| 18:08:56 | libman | PMunch: Go implement the first parts, put it on GitHub with a permissive license, and then someone might be interested in helping you with the hard parts. :P |
| 18:09:53 | PMunch | Well there are multiple things like this already. And I was just toying with an idea so I probably wont bother at the moment |
| 18:11:22 | libman | Unless you're doing this project (and doing it in Nim), this whole discussion has been off-topic. |
| 18:11:45 | PMunch | Well, I was planning on doing it in Nim if I decided to do it at all :P |
| 18:11:50 | PMunch | So not entirely off-topic |
| 18:12:32 | PMunch | And for all I knew someone might've already made something like this in Nim, so it would be silly to look into eg. JS solutions before asking here |
| 18:12:39 | libman | It would definitely be a good choice to do it in a language that can run on both client-side and server-side, because you might at some point decide you need to do the diffing logic on the other side (or in both places). |
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| 18:14:46 | PMunch | Well, Nim has a JavaScript build target |
| 18:14:48 | libman | I would start with smaller projects, like a nim SSE client and SSE server modules, or a command-line tool that takes X documents and generates HTML formatting to show differences. |
| 18:15:01 | PMunch | In fact the official site is created purely in Nim IIRC |
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| 18:17:33 | libman | The diffing would only work if all versions of the document are sufficiently similar though. Users would periodically have to "Accept" changes from others to integrate them into their own version of the document. |
| 18:20:11 | libman | I can only imagine this UI using color to show who added the text (CSS lets you set a different color for the underline to show who removed it), and mouse-over tool-tips with details. |
| 18:20:20 | PMunch | Well I was thinking of doing something like this: whenever you change position in the document, request a cursor from the server. Whenever you get a cursor you can stream to that cursor and it will get added to the shared document. The server would have to keep track of the cursors and offset them according to the input streams. Then the server would use SSE to stream back. |
| 18:20:45 | PMunch | Yeah, that's how other solutions typically works |
| 18:20:49 | PMunch | With the colours I mean |
| 18:22:39 | PMunch | Hmm, but I guess I would need some way to get a cursor at a specific position |
| 18:23:42 | libman | You'll need to have a limit on a number of simultaneous editors (2 being very easy, more is possible but it gets increasingly complicated), but there need not be a limit on the number of observers. Many people can watch and take turns with edit access. |
| 18:29:24 | libman | The easiest thing is to only allow editing of one HTML element at a time, so you double-click on a heading or paragraph end it turns into a textarea. Anyway, this whole discussion is off-topic, so I'm done. |
| 18:29:39 | libman | *And |
| 18:29:49 | PMunch | Sorry, didn't mean to drag you into off-topic chat |
| 18:30:45 | Xe | i don't consider it a sin to stray a little when talking about nim and how it fits into the tech world |
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| 18:31:28 | PMunch | Neither do I, I was apologizing to libman as it seemed like he didn't like to talk off-topic :) |
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| 18:32:30 | * | libman has a tendency to ramble on and on about philosophical nitpickings that most people don't find all that important. |
| 18:33:24 | PMunch | Haha, you and me both |
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| 21:40:42 | Calinou | :( I hate working on dynamic websites so much |
| 21:41:19 | Calinou | integrating a CSS preprocessor is tricky to get right, all the current CMS options seem to be dated and clunky (WordPress) or incomplete (October, Grav) |
| 21:41:36 | Calinou | and obviously it's not as secure as a static site |
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| 21:46:58 | Araq | *shrug* I wrote nimweb |
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| 21:57:16 | federico3 | what's even the point of a css preprocessor? |
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| 22:09:20 | Calinou | federico3: making it much more convenient to write CSS: single-line comments, nesting, math preprocessing ("calc" doesn't work on IE < 10 for example), variables… |
| 22:09:52 | Calinou | I like http://stylus-lang.com/, since it can be indent-based |
| 22:10:02 | Calinou | but Jekyll supports Sass only since it's Ruby ;) |
| 22:20:44 | federico3 | Calinou: if someone needs such level of complexity in a CSS file there's a problem |
| 22:22:41 | Calinou | federico3: you'd be surprised |
| 22:22:55 | Calinou | oh, also CSS preprocessors make it easy to concatenate/compress several CSS files into a single one |
| 22:22:59 | Calinou | so, no more 2000-line style.css :) |
| 22:24:42 | federico3 | please surprise me :) |
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| 22:49:55 | kulelu88 | doesn't compression into a single CSS file result in a 10,000 style.css? |
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| 23:01:44 | okami | kulelu88: it's not to save client bandwidth, it's to structure your project's styles for easier development |
| 23:01:55 | okami | use gzip to save bandwidth :p |
| 23:02:15 | kulelu88 | can't you do that without a CSS preprocessor? |
| 23:02:54 | okami | well, sure |
| 23:03:06 | okami | it's not the only reason to use a preprocessor |
| 23:03:36 | okami | just an extra benefit I guess |
| 23:04:05 | okami | I enjoy using scss |
| 23:04:22 | okami | easy for someone with css knowledge to pick up (it's a superset of css) |
| 23:05:50 | okami | but adds some, what I consider to be, nice features for writing and structuring a site's styles |
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| 23:11:04 | Calinou | minifying CSS helps in addition to gzipping |
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| 23:29:49 | PMunch | Calinou, I have something that might interest you |
| 23:30:11 | PMunch | serv.peterme.net/devlog/git-hooks-and-web-development.html |
| 23:32:07 | PMunch | It's a little something I did for my site. The HTML/CSS/JS/PHP part is in a Git repo with a database on the server. Using git hooks the server compresses the .css and .js files automatically on push and deploys them to my site. That way I can clone the repo, work with unminified versions of CSS and JS and whenever I push to the 'live' branch I get the benefits of minification. |
| 23:33:26 | PMunch | Oh wait, you were talking about CSS preprocessors. My bad, disregard my comments. |