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| 01:43:03 | OrionPK | https://github.com/onionhammer/clibpp |
| 01:45:35 | OrionPK | dom96 https://github.com/nimrod-code/packages/pull/61 |
| 01:59:22 | fowl | OrionPK, removepragma should deal with exprColonExpr, im sure `$` will fail on it |
| 02:00:25 | OrionPK | pull requests welcome |
| 02:01:19 | OrionPK | fowl removepragma is really just to remove the 'isstatic' pragma |
| 02:01:40 | OrionPK | doing isstatic: "something" wouldnt really make sense |
| 02:03:24 | fowl | OrionPK, im just changing it to pname.eqIdent(repr(i)) |
| 02:05:06 | OrionPK | mmk |
| 02:06:11 | fowl | OrionPK, this looks cool though, im going to try it on sfml |
| 02:06:27 | OrionPK | thanks, lemme know how it works out |
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| 02:07:14 | NimBot | nimrod-code/packages master 37b9ab4 onionhammer [+0 ±1 -0]: Added clibpp C++ library wrapping package |
| 02:07:14 | NimBot | nimrod-code/packages master b38dcb8 Billingsly Wetherfordshire [+0 ±1 -0]: Merge pull request #61 from onionhammer/patch-3... 2 more lines |
| 02:10:28 | OrionPK | thanks dom |
| 02:11:48 | fowl | <- billingsly wetherfordshire |
| 02:13:27 | OrionPK | ah i thought only dom had access to merge babel pkgs ;) |
| 02:13:28 | OrionPK | thanks |
| 02:13:51 | OrionPK | I know you're billingsly, didnt pay much attention to the name ;) |
| 02:23:18 | OrionPK | fowl i added you as a collaborator |
| 02:23:38 | OrionPK | change it as you need to when you work on sfml |
| 02:24:46 | fowl | hm I get compiler segfault |
| 02:29:42 | fowl | trying to hunt it down |
| 02:30:47 | fowl | OrionPK, what does importcpp do in the type def? |
| 02:31:51 | fowl | OrionPK, what does importcpp do in the type def? |
| 02:31:55 | fowl | sry |
| 02:35:13 | fowl | oh fixed it |
| 02:35:41 | fowl | call basename on the procname to get past the export symbol |
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| 02:40:17 | OrionPK | hmm? |
| 02:40:46 | OrionPK | importcpp should import public fields |
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| 02:41:50 | fowl | call basename on the procname to get past the export symbol |
| 02:41:54 | fowl | damnit |
| 02:42:17 | fowl | OrionPK, importc does that |
| 02:42:59 | flaviu1 | Will the [TP] prefixes stay? |
| 02:43:25 | flaviu1 | I think Araq said they're on the way out, but I don't remember |
| 02:46:06 | OrionPK | fowl well, does it matter? |
| 02:46:24 | OrionPK | flaviu1 last i heard they're on their way out |
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| 04:05:45 | fowl | is there a way to say that variables of a type should be {.noInit.}? |
| 04:28:19 | fowl | OrionPK, got it working :) |
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| 05:02:46 | fowl | pretty cool, its a lot less wordy than a straight up wrapper https://github.com/fowlmouth/nimrod-sfml/blob/master/sfml2.nim |
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| 09:55:40 | fowl | networked entitty framework.. more coming https://gist.github.com/fowlmouth/c14544fccde769bd61aa |
| 09:55:48 | fowl | entity* lol |
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| 13:29:14 | EXetoC | is {enumType.low .. enumType.high} supposed to include invalid values if enumType has holes? |
| 13:34:48 | EXetoC | what I'm trying to do is check if a value is a valid enumerator |
| 13:42:38 | OrionPK | fowl awesome :D |
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| 13:47:01 | OrionPK | fowl I was also thinking of doing an easier way to wrap C libraries; but I was poking around your repo and came across something that's pretty much half-way to where I would want it to be |
| 13:47:03 | Araq | importcpp is ONLY really about producing foo->bar(x) or foo.bar(x) |
| 13:47:35 | Araq | OrionPK: importccp doesn't make sense for fields, just use importc for that |
| 13:47:38 | OrionPK | fowl you could make this into a new babel package https://github.com/fowlmouth/nimlibs/blob/master/fowltek/importc_block.nim |
| 13:47:58 | OrionPK | araq oh? how would that work |
| 13:50:05 | Araq | = object |
| 13:50:20 | Araq | field {.importc: "field".}: cint |
| 13:52:32 | OrionPK | can you add a bug for that? |
| 13:53:04 | OrionPK | might not have time til monday to look at that |
| 13:55:53 | Araq | just introduce your own todo.txt instead :P |
| 13:57:50 | OrionPK | hehe |
| 13:58:08 | OrionPK | I typically do my "TODOS" in the top of the main module |
| 14:15:21 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod new_spawn f12a082 Araq [+0 ±2 -0]: added 'sortoutput' option to make output deterministic for threading tests |
| 14:15:21 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod new_spawn 6470bd8 Araq [+1 ±2 -0]: 'parallel' proves array bounds |
| 14:15:21 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod new_spawn ea16aca Araq [+0 ±2 -0]: correct code generation for tforstmt |
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| 14:39:51 | EXetoC | Araq: an enum range statement shouldn't include holes, right? |
| 14:40:33 | Araq | EXetoC: should we care? enum with holes are only for C interfacing |
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| 14:43:07 | EXetoC | well, I like the idea of grouping related values, with or without holes |
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| 14:43:53 | EXetoC | for a set of values used for types in a serialization format for example. I'm currently working on an msgpack interface |
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| 15:05:04 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod new_spawn bea1761 Araq [+0 ±2 -0]: tester works again |
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| 15:16:01 | Araq | bbl |
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| 15:23:17 | EXetoC | having to reference all members is a little error-prone, but I guess I'll do that for now when constructing sets |
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| 16:07:50 | fowl | OrionPK, these days push can be used so that the importc block doesnt have to |
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| 16:12:52 | OrionPK | yeah, but push is ugly |
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| 16:26:21 | skroll | is there a way to pass --clibdir and --cincludes in nimrod.cfg at all? |
| 16:29:48 | OrionPK | passL and passC? |
| 16:30:09 | OrionPK | http://nimrod-lang.org/nimrodc.html#passc-pragma |
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| 16:31:58 | OrionPK | fowl what do you think about a 'using' macro as well |
| 16:32:23 | OrionPK | i.e. using sf |
| 16:34:39 | EXetoC | skroll: it doesn't work? |
| 16:35:35 | EXetoC | most switches seem to be supported, but maybe I've missed some detail in the source |
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| 16:39:03 | EXetoC | did you try it? all these are accepted: --cincludes, cincludes, --clibdir and clibdir |
| 16:39:47 | skroll | EXetoC: i used --cincludes:/some/path and was told that it was expecting a parameter |
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| 17:14:38 | EXetoC | skroll: right. that's not very specific, but it seems to work if quoted |
| 17:14:50 | EXetoC | I mean the error message isn't |
| 17:19:05 | skroll | EXetoC: Ah, thankyou. That was what I needed |
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| 17:25:21 | EXetoC | c(:)-< |
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| 19:08:22 | fowl | OrionPK, i'd rather have a local proc sf (ident:string):string = "sf::"&ident, then do {.importc: sf"Window".} |
| 19:13:39 | OrionPK | the "using" could make a proc (or template) that does that |
| 19:14:17 | OrionPK | and maybe sf.window expression |
| 19:14:26 | OrionPK | instead of strings |
| 19:14:32 | fowl | its only useful for types and static functions |
| 19:15:30 | OrionPK | for example... your class could be class sf.CircleShape, header: graphics_h: |
| 19:15:49 | OrionPK | then we just parse the dot expr passed as a namespace |
| 19:16:34 | OrionPK | the usage should also reflect that, if possible. |
| 19:16:57 | OrionPK | but its probably not. so nevermind ;) |
| 19:17:44 | OrionPK | the definitions would just look cleaner w/o strings like "sf::CircleShape" imo |
| 19:17:46 | fowl | importc: .. is clearer imo |
| 19:17:57 | fowl | yea |
| 19:18:16 | OrionPK | it looks clearer to you I think because you've been macroingi t up in nimrod for forever |
| 19:18:31 | OrionPK | it looks familiar to you |
| 19:19:03 | OrionPK | flexibility is good, but we should also have the ability to outline a C class with as little writing as possible |
| 19:19:28 | OrionPK | fewer quotes, fewer ::s, fewer "importc"s |
| 19:19:30 | fowl | with clibpp the source is more readable than generated documentation |
| 19:20:34 | OrionPK | hopefully this eventually makes it easy for people to bring in bigger C++ libs |
| 19:28:35 | fowl | const Vector2f & getSize () const |
| 19:29:24 | OrionPK | fowl http://pastebin.com/dYECMDpd |
| 19:29:58 | OrionPK | (pseudocode) |
| 19:30:14 | fowl | OrionPK, that it ends up as MyClass and not myNs.MyClass bothers me |
| 19:30:47 | OrionPK | yeah... ideally it would end up with MyNs.MyClass to use it, but idk how that would work |
| 19:31:22 | OrionPK | myNS_MyClass is fugly |
| 19:31:39 | OrionPK | we could have a "using" macro as well |
| 19:32:30 | OrionPK | http://pastebin.com/c4QNthMQ |
| 19:33:55 | fowl | there is already a using statmenet |
| 19:33:58 | fowl | statement |
| 19:34:26 | OrionPK | ah yeah, forgot about htat |
| 19:34:53 | OrionPK | maybe call it "namespace" instead of "using" then |
| 19:35:06 | OrionPK | or just "use" |
| 19:35:24 | fowl | i think you're thinking too hard to get rid of a couple of colons |
| 19:35:35 | OrionPK | not to get rid of colons as much as strings |
| 19:36:12 | OrionPK | and importcs |
| 19:36:50 | fowl | OrionPK, what if the class is __Foo, you'd need an importc option because you couldnt have that as a nimrod ident |
| 19:37:06 | OrionPK | then that's fine |
| 19:37:11 | OrionPK | flexibility is fine |
| 19:37:36 | OrionPK | but for something as common as namespaces, it makes sense to build an option for it |
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| 19:42:05 | fowl | OrionPK, hows this sound https://gist.github.com/fowlmouth/3fc39c644ece1a233f09 |
| 19:44:07 | OrionPK | that works for your sfml, how do you generalize it? |
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| 19:45:23 | fowl | OrionPK, i guess the default would be astToStr(name) |
| 19:45:34 | fowl | you could replace .s with ::s there too |
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| 19:49:16 | OrionPK | if the `name` parameter is an expression, just take the last part as the class name IMO |
| 19:49:39 | filwit | OrionPK, you talking about OOP macros? |
| 19:49:48 | filwit | (just curious) |
| 19:50:26 | OrionPK | filwit it's for a library that tries to make importing C++ libraries easier and C++ wrappers easier to read |
| 19:50:42 | filwit | ah okay. sounds cool |
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| 19:53:01 | filwit | reason i asked is cause it sounded like you where talking about something similar to expr handling my macros do... `class Foo: ...` (regular) `class Foo of Bar: ...` (inherited) |
| 19:53:26 | filwit | i like that a lot more than `class Foo, Bar: ...` (for odd reasons) |
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| 19:56:25 | EXetoC | have you guys used GTK 3? |
| 19:56:43 | OrionPK | fowl https://gist.github.com/onionhammer/38ba78de10aac90a17df |
| 19:57:01 | filwit | EXetoC, nope |
| 19:57:27 | OrionPK | filwit ah, dont know about your OOP stuff |
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| 19:57:50 | EXetoC | I don't know much about it except that is uses CSS, which brings some advantages to it I guess, even though it has plenty of flaws |
| 19:58:07 | EXetoC | and some of the devs are being dicks apparently |
| 19:58:09 | foodoo | CSS or Gtk3 has flaws? |
| 19:58:58 | EXetoC | CSS, but I suspect that you don't really mess about with boxes much |
| 19:59:55 | fowl | OrionPK, i still dislike it but its your project |
| 19:59:59 | fowl | your call |
| 20:00:07 | fowl | bbl |
| 20:01:29 | filwit | hmm... parameter constraints on nodeKind don't seem to work.. `macro class(head:expr{NkIdent}, ...)` (can still be called `class Foo or Bar`) |
| 20:01:47 | filwit | unless i'm not understanding how that's supposed to work. |
| 20:01:55 | foodoo | cool. Seems like someone else has wrapped Gtk in the meantime :) |
| 20:02:07 | OrionPK | fowl what dont you like about it? just the imported name? |
| 20:02:30 | OrionPK | how is it different from what you're doing other than specifying the "full::name" in quotes and an importc |
| 20:03:24 | filwit | ah, nevermind.. it's probably cause the macro is {.immediate.} |
| 20:05:41 | OrionPK | fowl how about just a "namespace" item in 'opts'? |
| 20:07:35 | OrionPK | https://gist.github.com/onionhammer/38ba78de10aac90a17df |
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| 20:20:27 | fowl | OrionPK, class(X, header:.., importc:..) has all the info that you would need to define a c++ type without the macro, the body is where the convenience is |
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| 20:21:43 | fowl | header:importc: are recognizable if you've read nimrods manual |
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| 20:23:11 | fowl | its not as obvious that ns.otherNs.class ends up named class |
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| 20:24:41 | Araq | hi clone1018 welcome. did you try the prebuilt Aporia? |
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| 20:31:06 | Varriount | Meep. I'm back |
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| 20:39:50 | foodoo | Varriount: wb |
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| 20:47:41 | filwit | is there an official way to export symbols to only specific libs beyond using a secondary lib to selectively import/export? |
| 20:48:11 | filwit | i'm fine with using a secondary lib (don't actually need this yet anyways), just wondering if there's something I'm unaware of. |
| 20:48:21 | Araq | I don't think so |
| 20:48:29 | filwit | okay. just checking. |
| 20:48:34 | Varriount | filwit: You can use defines |
| 20:48:47 | filwit | what do you mean? |
| 20:49:23 | Varriount | have the secondary lib defined a symbol, and have the primary lib export if the symbol is defined. |
| 20:49:47 | Varriount | That assumes that the secondary library is under your control however. |
| 20:50:06 | Varriount | What's the difference between resize and realloc? |
| 20:50:23 | filwit | ah yes, that's what i meant by "secondary lib" in my first question. |
| 20:50:42 | clone1018 | Araq: I couldnt find a link anywhere to it. |
| 20:51:21 | Araq | Varriount: how can the secondary "define" a symbol for the primary lib? |
| 20:51:56 | Varriount | I don't know, I assumed there was some 'define()' compile time procedure. |
| 20:52:10 | Varriount | Something the equivalent of -d: on the command line |
| 20:52:24 | Araq | .define got removed years ago |
| 20:52:35 | Varriount | :< |
| 20:52:43 | Araq | it fucks up incremental compilation |
| 20:53:31 | Varriount | Araq: Can't the config files add defines though? |
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| 20:53:47 | Araq | yes |
| 20:54:24 | Araq | but foo.nimrod.cfg is not processed when you import foo.nim |
| 20:54:39 | Araq | only when foo.nim is your main module |
| 20:56:37 | Varriount | Hm. Won't that cause problems if foo is a library that needs special compilation rules? |
| 20:57:27 | Araq | no, it's a *config* system, not part of the language |
| 20:57:53 | Araq | use a pragma if you need "special" compilation rules |
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| 21:00:23 | filwit | Araq, sorry to bug you, i just remembered a question i had before: I thought you mentioned that Dynamic Binding in Nimrod was *slower* than VTables, but the docs make it seem otherwise, and indeed an inlinable dispatch tree sounds more optimized to me (assuming the inherit tree was small). Can you clarify that a bit? Did i hear you wrong, or where you only talking about specific cases being slower (aka, with a large hierarchy)? |
| 21:00:58 | Araq | (1) in theory it's faster |
| 21:01:08 | Araq | (2) in practice it's slower |
| 21:01:35 | Araq | reason for (2) is a non-inlined critical proc |
| 21:01:59 | filwit | you can't force-inline? |
| 21:02:08 | filwit | (or would that be even slower?) |
| 21:02:15 | Araq | didn't try it |
| 21:02:28 | Araq | but nimrod can optimize the call in ways C cannot |
| 21:02:42 | Araq | because we know its semantics in the compiler |
| 21:02:52 | Araq | and C compilers do not |
| 21:02:54 | filwit | yeah. just make the thing a template and rerun benchmarks! |
| 21:02:58 | filwit | :P |
| 21:03:04 | filwit | thanks for the explanation though |
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| 21:03:25 | * | q66 joined #nimrod |
| 21:08:36 | filwit | oh that is dope... i wasn't aware of the `.=` operator before. what i always wanted! |
| 21:08:58 | Araq | it's new |
| 21:09:15 | filwit | yeah, i remember y'all talking about it |
| 21:09:28 | filwit | is there a way i can specifically bind it to a certain word? |
| 21:09:57 | filwit | type Foo = object things: array[10, int] |
| 21:10:34 | filwit | proc `.=`(this:Foo, things:string{"things"}, ...) |
| 21:10:35 | filwit | ? |
| 21:11:02 | * | q66 quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 21:11:19 | Varriount | We have a `.=`? |
| 21:11:22 | filwit | i guess i could just statically check inside the proc and error on anything but "things" |
| 21:11:34 | Araq | yeah |
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| 21:11:52 | filwit | Varriount: http://build.nimrod-lang.org/docs/manual.html#special-operators |
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| 21:13:36 | filwit | er wait, my example is not what i want... |
| 21:13:46 | filwit | whatever |
| 21:13:55 | filwit | i'll play around with it later |
| 21:14:09 | Varriount | Hm. I'm starting to think we need a "winUtils" module to move all the small semi-wrappers scattered around the stdlib into one place. |
| 21:14:36 | Varriount | I keep spotting stuff like 'openHandle' duplicates |
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| 21:20:18 | Araq | Varriount: DRY is only a problem when things change |
| 21:20:31 | Araq | and the WinAPI doesn't change |
| 21:21:23 | Varriount | Araq: But I dislike copying, pasting, and then slightly altering the same sections of code. |
| 21:22:21 | flaviu1 | Copying is never good, what if some version have a slight bug? |
| 21:22:35 | Varriount | ^ What I was about to say |
| 21:22:55 | Araq | what if it has a bug and it's not triggered in its usage contexts? |
| 21:23:13 | Araq | which is likely cause it's been tested, right? |
| 21:24:38 | flaviu1 | What if the usage contexts change? The bug may be triggered then. |
| 21:26:14 | Araq | how about fixing real bugs instead? |
| 21:26:34 | Araq | you know ... things that happened in reality |
| 21:28:10 | Araq | like the 2 show stopper bugs that kept that guy from contributing a decent library to nimrod |
| 21:36:41 | Araq | (also: what if the new version has a new slight bug? why are some 'what if's more valid than others?) |
| 21:38:18 | EXetoC | what lib is that? |
| 21:43:57 | Araq | some "terminal only" toolkit |
| 21:51:09 | flaviu1 | If I was to deduplicate some code, I'd take the version with the cleanest code and use that as the canonical version. If it has a bug, I can fix it once and have it fixed all over the codebase. |
| 21:51:36 | EXetoC | just batch fix with regex :p |
| 21:52:07 | filwit | *regex has bug, fuck up entire codebase* |
| 21:52:25 | flaviu1 | No worries, git is a DVCS |
| 21:52:49 | filwit | yeah i know, just a joke about "time savers" |
| 21:52:51 | filwit | :P |
| 21:53:16 | flaviu1 | Yeah, the regex idea is stupid, but I think it was meant as a joke |
| 21:53:36 | flaviu1 | What about AST pattern matching? Match the broken code and fix it :P |
| 21:53:41 | Araq | flaviu1: this has been tried at a large scale. it's called "Linux package management". It's much more fragile and work than accepting a bit of code / libraries duplication. |
| 21:54:05 | Araq | IMHO it simply doesn't work and never will. |
| 21:54:19 | flaviu1 | Huh? I've had absolutely no problem with linux package management, ever. |
| 21:54:41 | flaviu1 | Anyway, this conversation is unlikly to go anywhere productive |
| 21:54:51 | Araq | every single Linux broke due to package management for me |
| 21:55:41 | filwit | as apposed to Windows where things don't break because they simply don't update? |
| 21:56:31 | flaviu1 | I've had some issues with package management, but since arch, I haven't had any. I get the latest and greatest, and the least over-engineered package manager there is |
| 21:56:44 | Araq | in a nutshell: yes. |
| 21:57:00 | * | Varriount backs away from the soon-to-be mob |
| 21:57:01 | filwit | Araq: look into the Nix package management |
| 21:57:22 | flaviu1 | Nix is very nice |
| 21:57:55 | filwit | yeah, though i really don't have any problems with Arch either, it does occasionally break due to it's under-engineering |
| 21:58:05 | filwit | it's easy enough to fix when it does tho |
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| 21:58:10 | filwit | and it's pretty rare |
| 21:58:30 | flaviu1 | Yep, it really follows the unix way and has no magic. all the configuration is in text files, no blobs |
| 21:58:44 | filwit | though I'm thinking about eventually switching to Manjaro or Chakra to support a more user-friendly bleeding-edge rolling distro |
| 22:00:14 | filwit | in fact, Araq, look into Chakra linux. They use pacman like Arch, and have bleeding-edge user software, but they roll core software much slower and only focus on KDE DEs.. I haven't tested it yet, but it sounds pretty stable. |
| 22:00:54 | filwit | then again, I'm a KDE fan now, so if you really love your Gnome DE then that's an issue. |
| 22:01:01 | fowl | filwit, i want to try LXQT |
| 22:01:28 | filwit | fowl: that the next thing from the LXDE/RazorQt merge? |
| 22:02:17 | * | hoverbear quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 22:02:47 | filwit | flaviu1: i'm setting up the Kate git, but want to know if I should export the entire schema file for each color set, or just the Nimrod schemes. The entire Scheme file might be nice really, but takes up a ton more. |
| 22:03:18 | fowl | filwit, yea |
| 22:03:32 | filwit | flaviu1: also.. we need some sort of license on this you think? |
| 22:03:49 | flaviu1 | filwit: Size doesn't matter too much, I'd suggest that you just put the whole schema into it |
| 22:03:57 | filwit | flaviu1: it's small enough to where i would like to just not have one, but idk about these things... |
| 22:04:03 | Varriount | Araq: Nimrod has given me a fresh and bold appreciation of just how helpful closures are. |
| 22:04:22 | flaviu1 | filwit: BSD or MIT or maybe even Do Whatever The Fuck You Want Licence |
| 22:04:26 | filwit | flaviu1: okay. That way we can fix up the colors for other common languages too (xml, C/C++/C#, JS, etc) |
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| 22:04:53 | filwit | flaviu1: yeah i'm thinking the DWTFYW for this.. always wanted to use that one anyways :) |
| 22:06:01 | flaviu1 | The indentation plugin will have to be GPL since its a modified version of the one for python |
| 22:07:03 | Joe_knock | Do any of you use the nimrod IDE? |
| 22:07:47 | Varriount | Joe_knock: Araq and dom96 do. |
| 22:08:16 | Varriount | Many of us just use our own preferred IDE's with Nimrod plugins. |
| 22:08:24 | filwit | flaviu1: i could just make the whole thing GPL then, it's up to you really (i really don't care either way) |
| 22:08:44 | Joe_knock | I assume there's a plugin for Sublime Text? |
| 22:08:50 | filwit | yes |
| 22:09:03 | flaviu1 | I like liberal licenses, so I'd say to use DWTFPL except where noted otherwise |
| 22:09:22 | filwit | Joe_knock: https://github.com/Araq/Nimrod/wiki/Editor-Support |
| 22:09:26 | flaviu1 | Joe_knock: There's a plugin for practically any editor you can find |
| 22:09:44 | filwit | flaviu1: k |
| 22:11:10 | dom96 | In regards to package management on Linux, I agree with Araq. |
| 22:11:26 | dom96 | I still don't understand how the hell pacman managed to remove initscripts from my install. |
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| 22:12:36 | Araq | even if it works "flawlessly" you managed to ignore my 2nd argument: an incredible amount of work goes into package management in Linux |
| 22:14:04 | dom96 | I wonder if there are any distros where there is no package manager |
| 22:14:29 | EXetoC | most likely |
| 22:14:33 | EXetoC | sounds like fun |
| 22:14:37 | dom96 | Actually that would require every single developer to package all the libraries together with their applications just like on Windows. |
| 22:14:48 | dom96 | So nothing would work on that distro. |
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| 22:14:55 | Joe_knock | sounds like 2% of the linux community |
| 22:15:38 | filwit | dom96: init scripts disappearing sounds like a pacman bug. |
| 22:15:42 | fowl | dom96, you could get by with just SymlinkProgram from gobolinux |
| 22:15:48 | filwit | dom96: not that you should have init scripts to begin with |
| 22:16:12 | dom96 | filwit: Well, Arch just stopped booting with some error which I can't even remember. |
| 22:16:19 | dom96 | something about run level and inittab |
| 22:16:29 | Joe_knock | perhaps you can see how a normal c program would be packaged for linux and mimic that, dom96 |
| 22:16:29 | dom96 | Googling suggests that initscripts is gone |
| 22:16:32 | filwit | fowl, or use the Nix package manager |
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| 22:16:56 | filwit | dom96: sounds like something from a few years ago before systemd |
| 22:17:04 | fowl | filwit, except that package manager is a package manager |
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| 22:17:20 | filwit | fowl, yes, but it's not a "traditional" one |
| 22:17:29 | EXetoC | dom96: what do you mean? just install manually |
| 22:17:32 | EXetoC | will only take ages |
| 22:17:51 | filwit | fowl, updating software makes duplicates so you can roll-back and maintain links to multiple verison of software |
| 22:18:07 | dom96 | EXetoC: I will need to boot into a live cd and do some magic there |
| 22:18:10 | * | dom96 can't be bothered |
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| 22:19:00 | filwit | also, Nix package manager doesn't rely on any repo |
| 22:19:09 | filwit | i mean, it *kinda* does |
| 22:19:36 | filwit | but it's basically just "install manually", it just helps you maintain things |
| 22:19:44 | filwit | at least, that's how i understand it |
| 22:19:55 | filwit | in reality i've never used the thing.. :\ |
| 22:21:23 | EXetoC | the process is about 1% manual yes :p |
| 22:21:25 | filwit | flaviu1: git name? "Nimrod Kate Support"? "Nimrod on Kate"? |
| 22:21:52 | Araq | "Kate loves Nimrod" |
| 22:21:53 | flaviu1 | kate-nimrod maybe? |
| 22:22:07 | filwit | kate loves nimrod isn't bad |
| 22:22:19 | Joe_knock | Katerod? |
| 22:22:21 | filwit | no |
| 22:22:23 | filwit | lol |
| 22:22:25 | Joe_knock | kate-rod |
| 22:22:27 | flaviu1 | ok, that's a pretty good name then |
| 22:22:38 | flaviu1 | 'kate-loves-nimrod' |
| 22:23:03 | filwit | k |
| 22:23:04 | Joe_knock | perhaps we should try the reverse. Just like sublimes. "nimkate" ?? |
| 22:23:16 | filwit | hmm... |
| 22:23:29 | dom96 | I should add a feature to NimBot which discourages any name which begins with the 'nim' prefix. |
| 22:23:47 | dom96 | :P |
| 22:23:55 | filwit | nah, 'nimkate' is too "this is it's own thing, not a buch of Kate plugins for Nimrod support" |
| 22:23:55 | Joe_knock | aah!! |
| 22:23:58 | dom96 | But actually in this case, it's fine. |
| 22:24:20 | filwit | i like 'kate-loves-nimrod' |
| 22:24:31 | dom96 | When you're creating something not directly related to Nimrod but written in Nimrod then please don't use that prefix :P |
| 22:24:46 | flaviu1 | dom96: Like nimforum? :P |
| 22:25:07 | dom96 | flaviu1: sshshh |
| 22:25:15 | Joe_knock | I guess a more descriptive name for plugins makes sense. There should just be consistency across the names. kate-loves-nimrod, sublime-loves-nimrod, geany-loves-nimrod, vim-loves.nimrod |
| 22:25:16 | filwit | dom96: it's directly related to Nimrod but isn't written in Nimrod... so.. |
| 22:25:26 | dom96 | filwit: Yeah, it's fine. |
| 22:25:43 | flaviu1 | I don't really like |
| 22:25:50 | flaviu1 | 'nimkate', too bland |
| 22:25:57 | dom96 | Why don't you guys help me with Aporia? :P |
| 22:26:10 | dom96 | It's way more fun! |
| 22:26:14 | filwit | cause Kate man, cause Kate.. |
| 22:26:24 | filwit | too many good feature here |
| 22:26:33 | flaviu1 | Because its easier to use an amazing piece of software and modify it over implementing all the awesome features again. |
| 22:26:39 | filwit | i think i can port the colors over now tho |
| 22:27:14 | fowl | OrionPK, mind if i add a nodecl option? I want to use the body stuff for a typeclass |
| 22:27:34 | Joe_knock | I think the Aporia IDE would actually make an awesome first tutorial for nimrod programmers. "Build a nimrod IDE to write nimrod code" |
| 22:28:21 | dom96 | I think that may be a bit too complicated for a first tutorial. |
| 22:28:35 | dom96 | But actually |
| 22:28:41 | dom96 | A simplified version may work well |
| 22:28:46 | dom96 | Joe_knock: I like your idea. |
| 22:29:07 | * | dom96 should stop thinking out loud |
| 22:29:35 | filwit | I think Nimrod should get that "Nimrod by Example" (like the Rust one on reddit the other day) |
| 22:29:48 | dom96 | filwit: flaviu1 is working on precisely that |
| 22:29:57 | filwit | oh really? Awesome! |
| 22:30:06 | fowl | http://flaviut.github.io/nimrod-by-example/ |
| 22:30:07 | flaviu1 | http://flaviut.github.io/nimrod-by-example/ |
| 22:30:19 | fowl | jynx |
| 22:30:21 | EXetoC | filwit: has been suggested before |
| 22:30:23 | filwit | that was really clear and helped me understand Rust more (which made me also not like the language even more) |
| 22:30:23 | flaviu1 | But right now I'm looking to switch away from gitbook, I'm not really a fan |
| 22:30:29 | Joe_knock | dom96: if you want only noobs to start out with nimrod and get a glut of "I'm halfway there but forgot about nimrod 6 months ago", then it is complicated. But if you're targeting "Hey C guy, you've been doing this for 10 years, now let me show you how much nicer things get with Nimrod", then you'll have a possible contributor after the tutorial |
| 22:30:30 | EXetoC | now we just need someone who wants to spend time on it :p |
| 22:30:36 | EXetoC | yeah saw that one |
| 22:30:37 | filwit | fowl, flaviu1: thatnks i'll take a look |
| 22:30:40 | fowl | flaviu1, it looks nice |
| 22:31:03 | filwit | hey, this is put together very well, flaviu1 |
| 22:31:14 | dom96 | Joe_knock: I think we could include this in flaviu1's nimrod by example book. |
| 22:31:16 | flaviu1 | fowl: I'm looking to switch away from gitbook though, I don't like the idea of using node.js |
| 22:31:30 | flaviu1 | but I don't really know |
| 22:31:31 | dom96 | Joe_knock: Together with some other GTK/GUI examples |
| 22:31:37 | Joe_knock | flaviu1: Ever considered flat files and static hosting? |
| 22:31:55 | flaviu1 | It is a set of flat files, but the generator is nodejs |
| 22:32:19 | fowl | flaviu1, check out ipsum genera? |
| 22:32:35 | filwit | flaviu1: although, it seems a bit too complicated compared to the Rust one (aka, it drops you into `let d = 0xFF' without first giving any code examples of simpler things) |
| 22:32:51 | Joe_knock | flaviu1: I can help you by generating flat files with python. Perhaps mimicking a static generator from python into nimrod can give us another piece of software "static file generator for nimrod". |
| 22:32:57 | filwit | flaviu1: i'm sure you're not done yet tho |
| 22:33:06 | flaviu1 | Nope, not nearly done |
| 22:33:12 | flaviu1 | But keep feedback comming |
| 22:33:20 | filwit | flaviu1: just that I liked how the other one literally starts off with "hello world" and builds from there. |
| 22:34:01 | filwit | flaviu1: okay cool. it looks very clean overall. Will be worth a lot once finished and dropped on Reddit :) |
| 22:34:52 | * | foodoo quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 22:35:21 | Joe_knock | Perhaps we can solve a really really important question while we're brainstorming. "What is the most easiest tutorial after hello world?" . Answers welcome. |
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| 22:36:34 | dom96 | addition, subtraction, multiplication etc |
| 22:36:40 | Araq | Joe_knock: a parallel "hello world" is the standard now |
| 22:37:07 | filwit | hmm... will git accept "Kate-<3-Nimrod" instead of "Kate-Loves-Nimrod"? |
| 22:37:09 | dom96 | haha. Yeah, you need to utilize all of them CPU cores for that hello world |
| 22:37:22 | dom96 | filwit: Use a Unicode heart |
| 22:37:24 | fowl | Joe_knock, the next step is probably a virtual-machine driven by neural-nets |
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| 22:37:29 | flaviu1 | Isn't there a lock on stdout anyways? |
| 22:37:46 | filwit | dom96: where can i find that? |
| 22:38:06 | flaviu1 | ♥ |
| 22:38:09 | dom96 | ❤ |
| 22:38:25 | filwit | dom96: not really sure i like the idea of that... will be hard to cd into with terminal... |
| 22:38:27 | dom96 | hrm, mine is different. |
| 22:38:34 | filwit | yeah i was just gonna say.. |
| 22:38:38 | flaviu1 | ☙♡❣❤❥❦❧ |
| 22:38:50 | Joe_knock | if we can define a roadmap for a step-by-step big application using mini-tutorials, by the end of the tutorial, the learner could have built a <<something important that is applicable to nimrods power -- Key Suggestions>>. |
| 22:38:53 | flaviu1 | dom96: Yours is Heavy black heart, mine is Black heart suit |
| 22:39:02 | Araq | filwit: no. why? kate -TAB- does the trick |
| 22:39:09 | dom96 | flaviu1: right |
| 22:39:25 | dom96 | Araq: What if you have two dirs beginning with 'kate'? |
| 22:39:27 | filwit | Araq: i guess, i just don't use auto-complete in terminal |
| 22:39:36 | Araq | :O |
| 22:39:44 | Araq | how do you survive? |
| 22:40:08 | dom96 | Araq: You have to move your mouse, and select the text, and copy, and paste, and then hit enter |
| 22:40:08 | flaviu1 | filwit: Use the command history |
| 22:40:15 | Araq | dom96: then you scroll through the list of candidates |
| 22:40:28 | filwit | speaking of.. can we please please get color highlighting in Nimrod output? |
| 22:40:44 | Varriount | filwit: Which output? |
| 22:40:55 | flaviu1 | nimrod c I assume |
| 22:40:55 | filwit | errors, hints, warnings, etc |
| 22:40:59 | Araq | no way, filwit |
| 22:41:10 | filwit | whyyy? |
| 22:41:32 | Araq | we can get a --useHtml switch though |
| 22:41:43 | dom96 | Hell yes |
| 22:41:59 | filwit | what? so i have to drop a file into a browser just to see the errors? |
| 22:42:00 | dom96 | As someone who uses a webkit terminal this is perfect! |
| 22:42:07 | filwit | oh.. |
| 22:42:14 | dom96 | /s |
| 22:42:17 | dom96 | :P |
| 22:42:19 | filwit | that's not very standard i think.. |
| 22:42:32 | filwit | but seriously, why not regular terminal colors? |
| 22:42:37 | filwit | what's wrong with them? |
| 22:42:50 | Joe_knock | you'll end up with a nimrod version of vim then, filwit. |
| 22:43:02 | Araq | 1) they are implemented with escape sequences on Linux |
| 22:43:08 | filwit | clang has awesome colors, and it makes debugging much easier |
| 22:43:16 | Araq | pipe the output and you'll see the problem with this hack |
| 22:43:29 | * | bjz_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 22:43:44 | Araq | 2) colors depend on your current background color settings etc or they might have no contrast |
| 22:43:50 | dom96 | Araq: What's the big deal, just add a flag for it to be enabled explicitly. |
| 22:44:13 | filwit | so just make `koch boot -d:termColors` |
| 22:44:18 | dom96 | #2 is actually a very good argument |
| 22:45:09 | filwit | #2 isn't a good argument. more people have good terminal colors, and if colors are optional, then they will just benefit those who know what they're doing |
| 22:45:18 | filwit | most** people |
| 22:46:06 | EXetoC | you can have a runtime switch too |
| 22:46:13 | filwit | ^ |
| 22:46:28 | Araq | sometimes I wonder if you guys have ever read a book... :P |
| 22:46:48 | filwit | i read sci-fi and fantasy all the time :P |
| 22:47:05 | EXetoC | I should read more |
| 22:47:08 | Araq | (no, comics do not count...) |
| 22:47:10 | fowl | can we please instead work on an LCARS interface? |
| 22:47:47 | fowl | http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/259/e/7/e73e45a04e3c4ea7f556d3e0aa08fe78-d5eykfe.png |
| 22:47:48 | filwit | books are from before the internet, and thus their arguments are old and irrelevant |
| 22:48:02 | Araq | filwit: but ok |
| 22:48:10 | Araq | implement it and make a PR |
| 22:48:18 | filwit | okay :) |
| 22:48:22 | Araq | but make it all optional via -d:termColors |
| 22:48:32 | filwit | runtime you mean? |
| 22:48:42 | filwit | (not a koch option, but a nimrod one) |
| 22:48:55 | Araq | a koch option |
| 22:49:01 | filwit | okay |
| 22:49:10 | Araq | and use a different color for compile-time 'echo' |
| 22:49:25 | Araq | so that it in fact becomes a useful feature ... |
| 22:49:29 | Araq | :P |
| 22:50:05 | filwit | i was really only going to color the 'Hint', 'Warning', and 'Error' text, but I'll play around with it a bit. |
| 22:50:08 | EXetoC | that'll be easy to locate |
| 22:51:04 | filwit | Hint (green), Warning (yellow), Error (red).. guess i'll make compile-time echo blue text or something |
| 22:51:18 | Joe_knock | filwit: +1 |
| 22:52:03 | EXetoC | filwit: kate? |
| 22:52:09 | filwit | one sec |
| 22:52:13 | EXetoC | someone wanted to write a plugin for kdevelop I think |
| 22:52:46 | EXetoC | it's important to focus on a platform that has plenty of plugins |
| 22:53:07 | filwit | that would be nice, but Kate has the same suggest feature, and KDevelop is really mostly about CMake project management and Debugging really (which don't really apply to Nimrod) |
| 22:53:20 | Joe_knock | Wouldn't sublime be the most ideal platform? |
| 22:53:21 | EXetoC | dom96: and so you miss out on much by focusing on aporia |
| 22:53:56 | dom96 | Aporia is the only editor with the state of the art style insensitive search |
| 22:54:01 | dom96 | :D |
| 22:54:04 | filwit | Joe_knock: probably because it's cross platform. But it's not open-source, and Kate is just better IMO |
| 22:54:57 | EXetoC | it costs money too :p |
| 22:55:49 | filwit | all of the good features of Sublime, Kate has, but it's open. Only downfall is I'm sure it's not great on Windows/Mac (if it even works there at all) |
| 22:56:13 | EXetoC | light table is getting a lot of traction |
| 22:56:20 | Joe_knock | Kate is restricted to the KDE platform (unless the developer is prepared to install all the KDE parts too). |
| 22:56:34 | filwit | EXetoC: yeah i still haven't tried that one |
| 22:57:03 | filwit | Joe_knock: not really. The same could be said about Calligra Krita, and that works well on Windows |
| 22:57:17 | Joe_knock | filwit, perhaps start with vim or emacs? |
| 22:57:23 | EXetoC | anyway, we should discuss this on the forum |
| 22:57:53 | * | nequitans_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 22:58:07 | filwit | Kate♥Nimrod |
| 22:58:35 | filwit | or |
| 22:58:40 | filwit | Kate❥Nimrod |
| 22:58:59 | filwit | Kate❤Nimrod |
| 22:59:00 | * | io2 quit (Quit: ...take irc away, what are you? genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist) |
| 22:59:10 | EXetoC | does it have many plugins compared to kdevelop for example? |
| 22:59:19 | EXetoC | anyway, we should of course support multiple editors if possible |
| 22:59:26 | filwit | Kate has full D suggest features |
| 23:00:29 | EXetoC | I'm curious to know what skrylar meant when he said that Andrei was responsible for an exponential increase in ICEs, because he doesn't really work on the compiler |
| 23:00:56 | EXetoC | the D compiler that is |
| 23:01:08 | filwit | probably the new allocator stuff, but that's just a guess |
| 23:03:48 | EXetoC | they needed additional language features for that? |
| 23:04:12 | filwit | idk, i never really took a look at it |
| 23:07:27 | Varriount | Andrei? |
| 23:09:33 | filwit | okay, flaviu1 (and those who use the Kate colors). I have 4 'special' condition highlighted procs: assert, echo, new, quit |
| 23:09:38 | filwit | should i leave them? |
| 23:13:15 | EXetoC | who asked about resize and malloc? |
| 23:13:50 | dom96 | We need to fix idetools btw |
| 23:14:09 | EXetoC | the differences should be documented |
| 23:14:20 | dom96 | Not sure if that's easy or not |
| 23:15:12 | EXetoC | I mean they are |
| 23:16:27 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod new_spawn 9953e0b Araq [+0 ±5 -0]: tdisjoint_slice2 works |
| 23:17:30 | dom96 | good night |
| 23:18:04 | filwit | later |
| 23:18:16 | filwit | crap, do unicode character not work in URLs? |
| 23:18:37 | filwit | fatal: unable to access 'https://github.com/PhilipWitte/Kate♥Nimrod.git/': The requested URL returned error: 400 |
| 23:19:22 | filwit | :-\ |
| 23:20:33 | filwit | pfft.. nevermind.. |
| 23:25:24 | filwit | well that's lame, Github won't let me use the unicode heart and wants to name it "Kate-Nimrod" |
| 23:25:29 | filwit | oh well |
| 23:28:20 | Varriount | Phew. Working around deficiencies in system API's is not easy. |
| 23:30:06 | filwit | well i'm either going to name it "nimrod.kate" (like the LightTable & Atom) or "NimKate" (like Sublime) |
| 23:30:21 | filwit | anyone have a preference before i choose one? |
| 23:30:24 | Varriount | filwit: What about "Nate"? |
| 23:30:28 | * | hoverbe__ quit () |
| 23:30:38 | filwit | nah, it sounds too much like it's own product |
| 23:30:49 | Varriount | Well then, I prefer NimKate |
| 23:30:50 | filwit | i just want this to so "Nimrod Kate Support" but in less words |
| 23:31:00 | filwit | k, i'm leaning towards that one as well too |
| 23:31:18 | filwit | especially if the name eventually changes to Nim (not sure that'll happen, but if it does, it fits) |
| 23:32:03 | EXetoC | nim-lang would be more distinct |
| 23:32:28 | EXetoC | but a nim prefix is fine either way imo |
| 23:35:03 | filwit | already made it NimKate: https://github.com/PhilipWitte/NimKate |
| 23:35:39 | * | darkf joined #nimrod |
| 23:36:40 | EXetoC | does kate have a good vim plugin? |
| 23:36:55 | flaviu1 | EXetoC: The closest you can get without using vim |
| 23:37:25 | flaviu1 | http://docs.kde.org/stable/en/applications/kate/vi-input-mode-chapter.html |
| 23:37:30 | filwit | never used Vim mode in Kate, but i've heard good things |
| 23:38:19 | filwit | flaviu1: updated the repo, so awaiting your PR now. Going to put a couple of screenshots in the readme |
| 23:38:24 | flaviu1 | Ok |
| 23:38:55 | * | Joe_knock quit (Quit: Leaving) |
| 23:42:59 | flaviu1 | filwit: By the way, I think that spellcheck should be on for Comments, Strings, TypeDefs, and ProcDefs, although probably not yet as Kate doesn't support breaking up identifiers into words before spellcheck |
| 23:43:26 | filwit | yeah that's why i turned it off initially |
| 23:44:07 | filwit | license text: All code is released under WTFPL unless explicitly stated otherwise. See LICENSE for more information. |
| 23:44:16 | filwit | in readme |
| 23:44:37 | filwit | so that you can put your code under GPL |
| 23:44:56 | filwit | dunno if that's common or not, just made it up (which is why i'm posting about it) |
| 23:45:14 | flaviu1 | That sounds fine. |
| 23:46:35 | * | Matthias247 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 23:46:40 | EXetoC | MIT, BSD, X11 or something plz ^_^ |
| 23:46:52 | flaviu1 | WTFPL is even more liberal |
| 23:47:55 | flaviu1 | By using it, you make fun of licenses while simultaneously essentially placing your work into the public domain |
| 23:48:16 | filwit | which is exactly what i want :} |
| 23:49:34 | EXetoC | then GPL was mentioned, but ok maybe I missed something |
| 23:50:45 | filwit | EXetoC: flaviu1's code is a copy of some Python code that is GPL, so that has to keep GPL |
| 23:50:59 | filwit | fork** of |
| 23:51:03 | EXetoC | ok |
| 23:51:40 | filwit | goin to take some screenshots, brb |
| 23:51:42 | * | filwit quit (Quit: Leaving) |
