| 00:00:04 | Varriount | flaviu: I don't mind the command line. What I mind is being made to do trivial work that can be easily automated. |
| 00:00:45 | flaviu | It's not trivial. It shouldn't be automated. You need to understand what's going on; if it breaks you'll know how to fix it. |
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| 00:01:32 | * | Varriount points to Ubuntu and the myriad of other Linux distro's with installers. |
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| 00:02:40 | flaviu | \me points to the horrible number of help vampires in the Ubuntu community |
| 00:02:43 | * | flaviu points to the horrible number of help vampires in the Ubuntu community |
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| 00:03:21 | * | Joe_knock helps flaviu to point |
| 00:03:25 | flaviu | sorry |
| 00:03:41 | flaviu | BTW, I managed to allocate lots of gigs with mmap |
| 00:04:09 | Varriount | Araq: Only in Linux-Land will you find people willing to make something *less* user friendly. |
| 00:04:20 | flaviu | I once read a suggestion that the vector resize policy be 8, 64, 1024GB |
| 00:04:58 | flaviu | looks like that's actually practical on linux |
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| 00:06:28 | Joe_knock | Do we have any statistical packages for Nim? |
| 00:06:52 | Jehan_ | Varriount: Ahem. Plenty of other communities, too, but I don't want to start a flame war here. :) |
| 00:07:48 | Joe_knock | Are we more Linux or Win users here? |
| 00:08:12 | Araq | flaviu: I burned the arch CD, got a bare-bones command line and couldn't be bothered |
| 00:08:32 | flaviu | lol |
| 00:08:35 | Araq | then I burned that other thing Arch+livedisc UI |
| 00:08:44 | Araq | that immediately crashed |
| 00:09:01 | flaviu | Use the wiki, Araq |
| 00:09:21 | Varriount | Araq: Or use the installer script that I coughed up. |
| 00:09:21 | Araq | oh I know how to install it via command line |
| 00:09:32 | Araq | that's not the issue |
| 00:09:51 | Araq | the issue is that I want a working liveCD so I can see it works with my hardware |
| 00:10:03 | flaviu | Araq: Arch doesn't require you to use X |
| 00:10:24 | flaviu | Anyway, you can just install it into memory and test it out |
| 00:10:26 | Varriount | flaviu: But he wants to see if X will work on his system, before installing it. |
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| 00:10:33 | flaviu | ^ |
| 00:10:39 | Araq | and apparently the alternative liveCD crashes. so there. |
| 00:10:54 | Araq | I have to assume now that a real installation will crash too. |
| 00:11:13 | Joe_knock | Why Arch? |
| 00:11:17 | Jehan_ | Varriount: About the GMP wrapper: Too low-level to be useful by all appearances, more the basis for an actual wrapper. |
| 00:11:25 | flaviu | Araq is just looking for excuses not to become an Uber-Hacker :P |
| 00:12:02 | Araq | where Uber-Hacker here means "worshipping 70ies' technology" |
| 00:12:13 | Araq | "and never improving it" |
| 00:12:30 | Varriount | Ouch. |
| 00:12:46 | flaviu | Araq: Learn to appreciate it, it has some really nice things to it that modern technology doesn't |
| 00:13:17 | Araq | yeah, I also recently replaced my car's engine with a steam engine |
| 00:13:39 | flaviu | anyway, I'm back on-topic |
| 00:13:46 | flaviu | I can argue in #nimrod-offtopic |
| 00:14:11 | Varriount | Anyone here have experience configuring BuildBot? |
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| 00:17:22 | Araq | Varriount: an alternative is to build on top of the tester and its database model a new nimbuild |
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| 00:18:07 | Varriount | Araq: Both you and I know that neither of has the time to do that quickly. |
| 00:18:35 | flaviu | What happened to nimbuild? |
| 00:18:46 | Varriount | flaviu: Ongoing system deprivation. |
| 00:18:50 | Varriount | *systemic |
| 00:19:04 | Varriount | I would rather we get a BuildBot system up and running, and when Nimbuild is further developed, switch back. |
| 00:19:38 | flaviu | Sounds like a fun project |
| 00:20:05 | flaviu | Is it alright if I work on that? |
| 00:20:25 | Araq | flaviu: only if you can promise us some level of support |
| 00:20:51 | flaviu | uhh.. I'll be in IRC at least 5 days per week for the next 6 months? |
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| 00:21:31 | Araq | flaviu: (1) your code doesn't use 'box' ;-) |
| 00:21:53 | Araq | (2) your code is readable and only does what's necessary |
| 00:22:11 | Araq | (3) we can summon you and yell at you at any time |
| 00:22:29 | Araq | XD |
| 00:22:39 | flaviu | As long as "any time" is one of the 5 days per week, sure |
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| 00:22:42 | Joe_knock | sounds exciting |
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| 00:27:18 | Jehan_ | Araq: Is it intended that you can use spawn outside a parallel statement? |
| 00:27:40 | Araq | sure, and it's documented |
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| 00:28:42 | Varriount | flaviu: You want to rework nimbuild? |
| 00:28:58 | flaviu | No, get buildbot working |
| 00:28:59 | Araq | 'parallel' adds a DSL and an implicit barrier on top 'spawn' |
| 00:29:17 | flaviu | unless you've already got significant progress in that direction |
| 00:29:23 | Jehan_ | Araq: Alright, I didn't see it in the documentation. |
| 00:29:30 | Araq | hey, I thought you want to write a second nimbuild |
| 00:29:40 | Jehan_ | At least not where I looked. :) |
| 00:29:46 | flaviu | sorry, nope. That's too much work |
| 00:29:51 | Araq | my comments do not make any sense otherwise |
| 00:30:03 | flaviu | buildbot still requires code |
| 00:30:33 | Varriount | Yes, but it's significantly less code (hopefully) |
| 00:30:39 | Araq | Jehan_: doc/manual/threads.txt (bigbreak) |
| 00:31:22 | Jehan_ | Okay, seeing it now. |
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| 00:32:13 | Araq | oh I see it's slightly wrong ... |
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| 00:35:53 | Jehan_ | I see that it's currently a warning, not an error if the spawned function is not gc-safe. Is that going to remain the case? (For what it's worth, I prefer it to be a warning.) |
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| 00:37:07 | Araq | no, it'll be an error |
| 00:37:21 | Araq | but i'm thinking about making gcsafety inference smarter |
| 00:39:16 | Jehan_ | I'm saying this because this can be extremely tedious if you want to use third-party libraries that are gcsafe, but don't have their gcsafety declared. |
| 00:39:29 | Jehan_ | You'll essentially have to maintain a patched version. |
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| 00:41:37 | Araq | well it's already inferred |
| 00:41:53 | Araq | it's not like you need to declare it everywhere |
| 00:42:02 | Jehan_ | Hmm. Even with external C functions? |
| 00:42:21 | Araq | importc implies gcsafe |
| 00:42:44 | Araq | that's a problem when you importc generated Nim code |
| 00:42:45 | Jehan_ | Huh. Interesting. In this case I may retract my concern. |
| 00:43:03 | Araq | but it's a reasonable compromise |
| 00:43:50 | Jehan_ | It may still be useful for gcsafe or effects-based stuff to be able to override inference locally. |
| 00:44:20 | Jehan_ | But I'll have to look at that more closely. |
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| 00:44:28 | Jehan_ | s/inference/inference and checking/ |
| 00:45:04 | gokr1 | Araq: Why don't you just use Ubuntu? |
| 00:45:31 | gokr1 | I messed with fringe distros years back, sure, fun and all. Lunar-linux was great - but such a time sink. |
| 00:45:55 | Araq | gokr1: I did, wanted rolling releases, picked mint, mint worked great, mint update broke |
| 00:46:00 | Araq | re-installed mint |
| 00:46:04 | Araq | now nothing works |
| 00:46:09 | gokr1 | We use CentOS for cloud servers (will eventually move to Ubuntu) and Ubuntu for everything else. |
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| 00:46:25 | Araq | ubuntu's UI is annoying |
| 00:46:37 | gokr1 | Well, I got used to it. Decided to not fight it :) |
| 00:47:14 | Araq | I usually use XFCE and tweak it until it works like win XP |
| 00:47:16 | gokr1 | At least IMHO everything does work really well with Ubuntu on this Lenovo X220. |
| 00:47:27 | gokr1 | Xubuntu then. |
| 00:47:47 | Araq | yeah well, tried that one too once |
| 00:48:29 | gokr1 | I kinda decided that I didn't want to fight - so I picked the "most popular" and just went with the flow. Ubuntu does work really well, at least for me. |
| 00:49:18 | gokr1 | Use virtualbox to run XP and various other things. Vbox can even do accelerated 3D in XP. |
| 00:49:34 | Araq | did that too. |
| 00:50:04 | Araq | when I re-installed mint, I forgot about my virtualbox setup |
| 00:50:05 | gokr1 | But Ron just runs W7 I think, with VMWare to run all others. |
| 00:50:14 | gokr1 | Plus a mac on the side :) |
| 00:50:51 | gokr1 | Shit I gotta get to bed... gnite folks |
| 00:50:53 | Araq | so that's why the installers weren't tested on win xp by me. it's all Mint's fault. |
| 00:50:57 | Varriount | My only big gripe with Windows Explorer at the moment is that you can't get it to automatically resize certain columns to always fit |
| 00:51:03 | gokr1 | Hehe |
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| 00:59:39 | Jehan_ | Hmm, I'm getting a crash in cleanFlowVars. |
| 01:00:35 | Araq | yeah, this thing needs way more tests |
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| 01:00:57 | Jehan_ | Using a variant of the convex hull code that runs the body in an 1..10 loop. |
| 01:01:46 | Jehan_ | Hmm, there's a GC_unref there, but no matching GC_ref; is that generated by the compiler? |
| 01:02:49 | Araq | should be, yes |
| 01:05:24 | Araq | in compiler/lowerings.nim, line 237 it's explained |
| 01:06:09 | Araq | it should generate: args.fv.data = f(a, b, ...) |
| 01:06:39 | Araq | and since 'data' is nil, that amounts to a GC_ref of what 'f' returns |
| 01:06:59 | Araq | ('f' being the function that is spawn'ed) |
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| 01:10:34 | Araq | but hrm |
| 01:11:00 | Araq | I think this is not implemented properly |
| 01:11:18 | Araq | since 'data' is a pointer no write barrier is emitted |
| 01:11:30 | Araq | anyway, good night |
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| 03:49:21 | Varriount | AMorpork: Ankh-Morpork? |
| 03:49:27 | AMorpork | Aye. |
| 03:49:42 | Varriount | ! |
| 03:50:23 | Varriount | I love Terry Pratchett's books. Sadly, my nickname is not discworld themed. |
| 03:50:33 | AMorpork | Yeah, they're definitely my favorite series. |
| 03:50:38 | AMorpork | If the name wasn't a dead giveaway :p |
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| 03:55:51 | Varriount | AMorpork: Do you have any of the audiobooks? |
| 03:56:03 | AMorpork | I have a few of them. |
| 03:56:23 | AMorpork | Mort is my favorite of the ones I've heard. |
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| 03:56:55 | Varriount | I have almost all of them. I don't have Mort yet though. |
| 03:57:13 | Varriount | I've read the book however. |
| 04:00:56 | AMorpork | Yeah, that was really the book that got me into the series. |
| 04:01:18 | AMorpork | Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the previous books, but Mort felt like the first real Discworld book in a lot of ways. |
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| 04:33:59 | Triplefox | i got into Discworld with "Men At Arms" which is really quite a bit after the style developed. but went back and read all the others. i think i need to catch up, the last i read one was in the mid-2000s |
| 04:34:45 | Varriount | I love the books with Vimes in them - he's such a cynic. :P |
| 04:35:17 | Triplefox | yeah he's great, all the watch characters are great |
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| 04:37:20 | Varriount | Triplefox: There's also been a couple of Discworld movies. |
| 04:37:52 | Triplefox | oh? i didn't know that |
| 04:39:15 | Varriount | Yeah - There's been movies for "The Light Fantastic", "Hogfather", and "Going Postal" |
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| 05:16:53 | superfunc | gokr1: enjoyed the article. also found it interesting as I am trying to test out the FP merits of Nim. Not that I plan on programming in that style for serious work in it, but it is fun to see how we are seeing how well each paradigm of a multi-paradigm is done |
| 05:17:07 | superfunc | my article on it should be done this weekend btw |
| 05:19:25 | superfunc | gokr1: I also learned a lot about distinct' from it, so thank you for that |
| 05:24:39 | superfunc | dom96_: For when pointers are needed, not saying I need them now, does Nim have something similar to unique_ptr<T>? |
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| 06:15:15 | Varriount | Araq: Found a buildbot plugin for building/testing on Github PR comment - https://github.com/Kami/node-buildbot-github |
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| 06:22:04 | gokr | superfunc: Thanks |
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| 06:35:17 | reactormonk | Wouldn't the |
| 06:35:31 | reactormonk | ... unmatched pegs be a good way to introduce a Maybe? |
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| 08:40:13 | nullmove | Couldn't found much on Slices in the manual. |
| 08:40:47 | nullmove | Do they give a copy or simply an iterator of the 'view'? |
| 08:41:15 | nullmove | And if not the latter, then why not? |
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| 08:54:46 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod bigbreak bc3464e Flaviu Tamas [+0 ±2 -0]: Modify pegs.nim such that no match will return nil... 7 more lines |
| 08:54:46 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod bigbreak 218cb75 Flaviu Tamas [+0 ±2 -0]: re module returns nil on failed captures... 3 more lines |
| 08:54:46 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod bigbreak e4260dd Andreas Rumpf [+0 ±3 -0]: Merge pull request #1605 from flaviut/patch-1... 2 more lines |
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| 10:38:36 | gokr1 | Nim: "You shoot the foot, then you get fancy and create a term rewriting macro that shoots all feet, everywhere, automatically." |
| 10:38:58 | gokr1 | Someone can do better? :) |
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| 12:02:11 | dom96 | Araq: Varriount: I know what's wrong with Nimbuild. |
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| 12:32:54 | NimBot | nimrod-code/nimbuild master 3eb7b8c Dominik Picheta [+0 ±1 -0]: Better process info. Fixes C sources cloning. |
| 12:34:23 | dom96 | Varriount: Update the builder. |
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| 12:49:12 | dom96 | Araq: Can't get Nim to bootstrap on Linux x86_64 |
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| 13:18:03 | Trustable | Hi dom96 |
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| 14:34:55 | dom96_ | hey Trustable, sorry for not reviewing those PRs yet. |
| 14:35:11 | dom96_ | I'll get it to it ASAP. |
| 14:35:18 | dom96_ | *get to |
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| 14:44:06 | Trustable | dom96, I'm back from dentist, have you solved your bootstrap problem? |
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| 15:13:52 | dom96_ | Trustable: No. |
| 15:14:40 | Trustable | dom96_: so, what exactly is the problem? |
| 15:15:05 | dom96_ | Something about 'locks:0' |
| 15:16:19 | dom96_ | The compiler compiled from C sources cannot compile compiler/nimrod.nim |
| 15:16:25 | dom96_ | *compiler/nim.nim |
| 15:17:25 | Trustable | dom96_: Do you use "nim" instead of "nimrod" when you call the compiler? |
| 15:17:49 | dom96_ | I am using bin/nimrod |
| 15:18:00 | Trustable | dom96_: On which branch are you? |
| 15:18:04 | dom96_ | bigbreak |
| 15:18:33 | Trustable | dom96_: You should delete the binary "nimrod" |
| 15:18:41 | dom96_ | Tried that. |
| 15:18:48 | dom96_ | But I'll simply reclone. |
| 15:18:58 | dom96_ | Can't do it now though. |
| 15:19:22 | Trustable | dom96_: Your problem looks the mine from yesterday. |
| 15:19:48 | Trustable | *like mine |
| 15:19:56 | dom96_ | I guess the problem was that something was outdated? |
| 15:20:25 | Trustable | yes |
| 15:21:26 | Trustable | dom96_: Do you use csources in branch bigbreak? |
| 15:21:40 | gokr1 | bigbreak should produce a "nim", the "nimrod" is an old artefact. |
| 15:21:52 | dom96_ | Trustable: yes |
| 15:22:03 | gokr1 | Don't you get a "nim" in bin? |
| 15:22:24 | dom96_ | no. AFAIK the csources still give you a "nimrod" binary for backwards compatibility. |
| 15:22:51 | gokr1 | I did this bootstrap yesterday and it worked. But using "nimrod" you can't compile stuff - because it doesn't fit the bigbreak system.nim |
| 15:23:13 | gokr1 | Doesn't nim work? |
| 15:23:33 | Trustable | I also did a bootstrap yesterday on Linux x64. |
| 15:25:38 | dom96_ | Likely something stale in the copy of the local repo. This was on one of nimbuild's testing machines so it seems likely. |
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| 20:06:29 | flaviu | IIRC someone criticized linux IPC. dbus is getting merged (https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/10/29/854), so now that's not vaild, even if it was before |
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| 20:57:37 | Mat3 | hello |
| 20:57:59 | ldlework | shi |
| 20:58:22 | Mat3 | hi ldlework |
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| 22:30:47 | gokr1 | Muuahaha. |
| 22:31:07 | gokr1 | I experimented with various solutions to the "super call" problem. |
| 22:31:20 | gokr1 | Read up a bit on generics, I am definitely rusty (no pun intended) there. |
| 22:31:46 | gokr1 | First I tried composition a bit, got something working but... man, it got messy. |
| 22:32:22 | gokr1 | Then I found what I guess you guys would have done in the first place. |
| 22:33:31 | Mat3 | sorry, what means rusty ? |
| 22:33:33 | gokr1 | I broke out the "base" implementation into a generic proc with a different name. Then I can call that one from "subclasses" and no type info is lost. |
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| 22:33:56 | gokr1 | (rusty as in... it was a long time since I used generics) |
| 22:33:57 | ldlework | Mat3: it means you're not as good at something as you used to be |
| 22:34:01 | gokr1 | right. |
| 22:34:17 | ldlework | Mat3: as in, metal things that are not used for a long time tend to get covered in rust |
| 22:35:10 | gokr1 | And then you can't inherit a base implementation of the proc in question - all the concrete subclasses will need to implement it - but you can of course just call the generic proc, so its a oneliner if you aren't going to override. |
| 22:36:22 | gokr1 | So given you want to use procs and not methods, this style is probably what you would do. |
| 22:38:13 | gokr1 | oooh, no, wait. I can implement it in the base class. wtf... |
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| 22:43:33 | gokr1 | Nice! Even better. |
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| 23:19:40 | Trustable | gokr1: Can you post your code as example? |
| 23:19:50 | gokr1 | I am about to publish it in an article. |
| 23:20:06 | ldlework | heh nice |
| 23:20:11 | gokr1 | It turned out fairly simple - but it took me quite a lot of experimentation to arrive there. |
| 23:20:27 | ldlework | gokr1: story of our lives |
| 23:27:23 | Mat3 | ciao |
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| 23:34:40 | gokr1 | http://goran.krampe.se/2014/10/31/nim-and-oo-part-ii/ |
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| 23:43:59 | flaviu | gokr1: post your favorite article that you've written about nim to reddit, they might like it. Don't forget that the title is the most important part :P |
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| 23:58:21 | flaviu | Runes in unicode.nim are `int`s? Aren't `uint32`s more appropriate? |
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