<< 31-05-2021 >>
00:03:44ForumUpdaterBotNew thread by Masiarek2: Strscans - Error: undeclared identifier: 'scanf', see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/8062
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02:26:21FromDiscord<exelotl> uuuh how do I get the max number if items a set can hold?
02:26:30FromDiscord<exelotl> (edit) "if" => "of"
02:28:35FromDiscord<exelotl> a bit ugly but I guess I could use typetraits
02:28:56FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> isnt it just `int16.high`
02:29:54FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> If you dont mind depending on develop you can just do `fullset(set[T]).len` 😛
02:30:12FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Embrace `devel` https://nim-lang.github.io/Nim/setutils.html#fullSet%2Ctypedesc%5BT%5D
02:30:47FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> ah that would be `fullset(T)` been a while since i wrote it
02:34:07FromDiscord<exelotl> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3onK
02:34:10FromDiscord<exelotl> sucks that i can't just do `n in elementType(a)`
02:34:46FromDiscord<exelotl> but yeah fullset would be good for this
02:34:57FromDiscord<exelotl> I can't use devel though
02:35:14FromDiscord<exelotl> got a friend who needs to be able to build the project :P
02:35:18FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Ah shame
02:43:15FromDiscord<Alea> quick question, are there any memory safety mechanisms with the GC turned off? or is it wild west style?
02:48:25FromDiscord<Rika> wild west
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03:11:37FromDiscord<exelotl> Yeehaw
03:12:16FromDiscord<exelotl> Well you still get bounds checks unless you disable them
03:13:40FromDiscord<exelotl> All checks really, including null access checks
03:14:06FromDiscord<exelotl> So you don't inherently lose any safety with --gc:none
03:15:54FromDiscord<Rika> oh i was just thinking of runtime
03:16:00FromDiscord<Rika> yeah thats true
03:16:43FromDiscord<exelotl> Wait, are pointers actually checked? I might be wrong
03:17:30FromDiscord<exelotl> like is there ever a nil check applied to something like p[] ?
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03:26:18ForumUpdaterBotNew thread by Codic12: Writing a kernel in Nim , see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/8063
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03:50:06FromDiscord<Alea> So for performance intensive programs that can't really use a GC is it better to go for something like Rust?
03:50:21FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> We have Arc which is akin to the rust memory management
03:51:24FromDiscord<Hi02Hi> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=3onU
03:54:17FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> In reply to @Alea "So for performance intensive": Even though it's enabled with `--gc` arc is a static memory management system without a cycle collector, so if you dont have any cycles it's very very usable in performance intensive programs
03:54:38FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Then you have Orc which is Arc + cycle collector for if you're uncertain or know you have cyles
03:55:51FromDiscord<Alea> And cycle collector is expensive to run I suppose?
03:56:54FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I dont think that's the case but i could be wrong
03:58:39FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> It vastly reduces latency and memory consumption, but can be slower than a classical gc depending on what you're doing
03:58:56FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> But that's just par for the course for that memory management
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04:17:47FromDiscord<Rika> its nondeterministic is why its not in arc
04:18:00FromDiscord<Rika> or is it indeterministic the word, whatever
04:18:02FromDiscord<Rika> english dum
04:18:19FromDiscord<Rika> go with a normal gc if you need throughput
04:18:31FromDiscord<Rika> if you want low latency you go with arc
04:18:45FromDiscord<Rika> stop the incorrect assumption that "gc == bad"
04:19:16FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Stop the world is bad though 😛
04:26:12FromDiscord<Rika> Aka Go and Java? I don't remember
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04:26:27FromDiscord<Rika> But even then there are use cases where they are sufficient or even better
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04:27:44FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Yea there are reasons for them all, stop the world is terrible for games
04:28:00FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Looks at MC's sawtooth gc frames
04:35:19FromDiscord<Hi02Hi> you can control the gc, check out https://nim-lang.org/docs/gc.html
04:53:23FromGitter<bung87> https://github.com/bung87/amysql/blob/862acff2d4ebb15a6f37c01878769dabf0f51fed/src/amysql/conn_connection.nim#L67 I got access nil , when I debug the message I found it send extro time with partial data `10001` which is unexpected, any clue?
04:59:36FromGitter<bung87> maybe it is ExitProc which send `10001` first then log the `Illegal storage access` error
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07:06:24FromGitter<bung87> my bad , I cast ref T.unsafeAddr to pointer
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08:10:50ForumUpdaterBotNew thread by FabienPRI: Atomic and threads, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/8064
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08:49:32PMunchHmm, is it right that we get the warning for GC'ed memory from a global variable in a thread when using ARC?
08:52:22FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I believe so
08:55:43PMunchBut doesn't ARC have a shared heap?
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09:00:58FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Sure but the analysizer still warns you, need to override with the `{.cast(gcsafe).}:`
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09:07:22FromDiscord<konsumlamm> In reply to @exelotl "like is there ever": no, you just get a segfault (with a message that the cause may be dereferencing nil)
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09:43:48PMunch@ElegantBeef, but is the warning relevant?
09:44:10PMunchIf not then it should probably not be displayed, specially if ORC is going to be the default moving forward..
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10:09:27FromDiscord<Varriount> In reply to @Rika "or is it indeterministic": "indeterministic" would be roughly equivalent to "unknown", while "nondeterministic" means "not deterministic".
10:09:47FromDiscord<Rika> okay
10:10:05FromDiscord<Rika> its "indeterminate" what you mean
10:10:53FromDiscord<Varriount> I'm just using the word you used.
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10:41:28FromDiscord<Varriount> In reply to @PMunch "<@145405730571288577>, but is the": Arc doesn't have a shared heap. I believe Araq was working on some sort of thread ownership mechanism.
10:42:13PMunchAccording to this it has a shared heap.. https://nim-lang.org/blog/2020/10/15/introduction-to-arc-orc-in-nim.html
10:42:33FromDiscord<clyybber> In reply to @Varriount "Arc doesn't have a": It is shared, but the refs are not atomic
10:42:40PMunch(Scroll down to the bullet list)
10:42:47FromDiscord<clyybber> so they have to be isolated to send over
10:42:51FromDiscord<clyybber> to a different thread
10:44:22PMunchAah, right
10:44:39PMunchI really wish there were more documentation on how ARC and threading works..
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11:03:28ForumUpdaterBotNew thread by Didlybom: Nimble detected as Trojan.Gen.MBT by Symantec Endpoint Protection v14, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/8065
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11:21:47ArrrrrrrrAlways suspected nimble is a virus.
11:26:12PMunchGuess it's time to switch to nimph :P
11:27:22FromDiscord<konsumlamm> until it get's so popular that it's also classified as a virus
11:27:36FromDiscord<konsumlamm> at which point we could maybe switch back to nimble
11:28:16FromGitter<bung87> does macOS has concurrent limit in kernel ? I can only perform around 100 concurrent requests..
11:31:59ForumUpdaterBotNew Nimble package! ass - Nim bindings for libass., see https://github.com/0kalekale/libass-nim
11:32:48FromDiscord<Airbus5717> Wtf
11:35:33PMunchI guess nimph would be just as susceptible to be flagged as malware. I think the problem is that a couple malwares have been written in Nim lately and the AV vendors incorrectly fingerprint Nim stuff as common between the malwares and just flags everything looking like that as malware
11:35:41FromDiscord<konsumlamm> whoever decided to name a library libass must have lost their mind
11:35:55FromDiscord<konsumlamm> or they thought it was funny
11:35:59FromDiscord<konsumlamm> or both
11:36:05FromDiscord<Rika> the filename is ass
11:36:13FromDiscord<Rika> libass edits ass files
11:36:28FromDiscord<Rika> ass files is abbr. of "advanced ssa"
11:37:00FromDiscord<konsumlamm> ok, whoever decided to name a file format ass must have lost their mind
11:37:02FromDiscord<konsumlamm> better?
11:38:08FromDiscord<Rika> ig
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11:58:47FromDiscord<kalekale> its advanced sub station(.ass), advance version of sub station alpha(.ssa)
11:58:52FromDiscord<kalekale> (edit) "its ... advanced" added "a"
11:59:01FromDiscord<kalekale> (edit) removed "a"
12:00:07FromDiscord<kalekale> its mostly used for softsubbing anime
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12:30:22FromDiscord<shiMusa> Hey all,↵is there a way to use zig as the c compiler?↵I've seen https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/13757↵but using `cc:zig` doesn't work since zig is not an "available option" (yes, zig is installed and in the environmental variables, Win 10)
12:30:46FromDiscord<shiMusa> (edit) "`cc:zig`" => "`--cc:zig`"
12:32:18PMunch@shiMusa, which branch are you using? I'm guessing that has only been merged into devel/nightly and not into the latest release
12:32:35FromDiscord<shiMusa> In reply to @PMunch "<@372035922671435787>, which branch are": latest stable
12:33:04PMunchTry devel
12:34:45FromDiscord<shiMusa> just switched, still not there.↵Also, the issue was from mid 2020
12:34:57FromGitter<BracketMaster> I'm trying to write an array to PNG in Nim ,and can't quite figure out how to do it
12:35:19FromGitter<BracketMaster> there's this: https://github.com/jangko/nimpng ⏎ but not quite sure how to use it
12:38:13PMunch@BracketMaster, not sure what you're stuck on..
12:43:14FromDiscord<exelotl> Here's how I use it: https://github.com/exelotl/trick/blob/master/src/trick/gfxconvert.nim#L227
12:43:48PMunch@shiMusa, ah it seems like it was removed: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/commit/1b2b32169a5d8089a50509136a31b5ceb3773994
12:44:18FromDiscord<exelotl> Though tbf I might be using the legacy api, I have no idea what's going on with nimPNG's interface xD
12:45:30PMunchYou just create a sequence of colours, then you save it as a png?
12:45:43FromGitter<BracketMaster> me neither, not sure how to use nimPNG - I want to go from simple 2d array to file
12:46:01FromGitter<BracketMaster> https://github.com/jangko/nimpng#encoding
12:46:13FromGitter<BracketMaster> `` png.addDefaultImage(framePixels, w, h, ctl)``
12:46:19FromGitter<BracketMaster> what on earth is framePixels?
12:46:21PMunchThat's for animated PNGs..
12:46:40PMunchDo you have a 2d array, or a 2d seq?
12:49:51FromGitter<BracketMaster> 2d seq
12:49:55FromGitter<BracketMaster> there's also this: https://github.com/jrenner/nim-simplepng
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12:53:52FromGitter<BracketMaster> yeah ok - its easier to use
12:53:55FromGitter<BracketMaster> so I guess I'm good
12:55:08PMunch2D seq is a bit tricky with nimpng, you'd need to combine it into a single seq
13:01:21PMunch@BracketMaster, here is how you use nimPNG: http://ix.io/3opw
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13:02:46FromGitter<bung87> nimpng has savePNG32
13:05:59PMunchCuriously enough this doesn't work: http://ix.io/3opy
13:06:19PMunchEven though it says it accepts openarray
13:07:45FromDiscord<clyybber> In reply to @shiMusa "just switched, still not": PMunch: What should work is just treating it as clang and overwriting the clang path
13:08:44FromGitter<bung87> it has savepng variant apis
13:09:07FromGitter<bung87> accept string seq and colors I remenber
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15:38:15FromDiscord<haxscramper> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOpAFmsNStg
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16:57:01ForumUpdaterBotNew thread by IridiumPoint: NIM Programming Language - video by Gamefromscratch, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/8066
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17:22:02FromDiscord<deech> Is Status still using Nim?
17:24:51leorize[m]yes
17:25:35dom96yep, see https://github.com/status-im
17:25:38dom96why do you ask?
17:26:22FromDiscord<deech> Thanks, I should have searched, I forgot they make OSS.
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17:39:23ForumUpdaterBotNew post on r/nim by IridiumPoint: NIM Programming Language - video by Gamefromscratch, see https://reddit.com/r/nim/comments/np8ulj/nim_programming_language_video_by_gamefromscratch/
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18:56:00FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Why do people do NIM, instead of you know Nim? 😄
18:58:16dom96good question
19:03:41FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Maybe they're just excited
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19:36:52FromDiscord<exelotl> it's the Lua curse 😅
19:37:03FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> LUA
19:37:42FromDiscord<willyboar> why not PYTHON?
19:38:50FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> It's more than 3 letters
19:38:55FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Hell i see people write ADA
19:39:26FromDiscord<willyboar> PHP 🤮
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19:47:20FromDiscord<deech> How do I create a `static` C array in Nim? Some equivalent of `static Blah items[] = { ... }` that can be passed to a C function.
19:48:12FromDiscord<deech> I can't use `const` because I want to pass in function pointers to Nim functions.
20:04:39FromGitter<BracketMaster> I want to put a restriction on the type ``T``: ⏎ ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` ⏎ ⏎ I have a type ``Vector`` and some derived types, ``Vector3f`` and ``Vector3i``. I would like the template to accept only ``Vector3f`` and ``Vector3i`` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=60b541569d18fe19983838b6]
20:13:05FromGitter<BracketMaster> another way to ask this is can you somehow specify that ``T`` should only be of multiple select types?
20:14:23FromGitter<BracketMaster> For example, I'd like the `-` proc to only work for Vector3f and Vector3i?
20:14:28FromDiscord<dithpri> BracketMaster: Like this? https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#generics-type-classes
20:16:58FromGitter<BracketMaster> more like ``[T : (string or int)]`` if that's even possible
20:18:15FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> That is
20:18:23FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> `T: Vector3f or Vector3I`
20:20:28FromGitter<BracketMaster> thanks - that works
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20:50:12FromDiscord<haxscramper> In reply to @deech "How do I create": I think `{.global.}` annotations on local variable makes it similar to `static` in `C`
20:57:27FromDiscord<Airbus5717> Is the dll generation stable in nim?
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21:05:19FromDiscord<ajusa> Is there a way to turn a concept into an interface such that I can have a seq of different objects that all pass the concept definition?
21:10:32FromDiscord<hugogranstrom.nim> In reply to @ajusa "Is there a way": They'd have to be `ref`s all of the types to begin with as `seq`s assume that each type has the same size.
21:11:33FromDiscord<hugogranstrom.nim> Feels hard to accomplish though without some really really smart tricks :/
21:17:37FromDiscord<hugogranstrom.nim> Simple casting tricks wouldn't work simply because we can't know the order of the fields. Inheritance solves part of your problem though
21:25:33FromDiscord<hugogranstrom.nim> Nimble seems to be caught in Windows Defender in 1.4.8 as `Program:Win32/Uwamson.A!ml`
21:26:40FromDiscord<ajusa> n i m i s m a l w a r e↵- anti virus
21:27:40FromDiscord<hugogranstrom.nim> Sadly it seems so 😛
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21:37:27FromDiscord<ajusa> Someone else mentioned this before, but there's been a decent amount of malware written using Nim so the antivirus folks are probably identifying Nim's stdlib as the common thing between all the malware, so they block that
21:37:41FromDiscord<ajusa> (edit) "malware, so they" => "malware to" | removed "that"
21:40:57FromDiscord<hugogranstrom.nim> Yeah that's definitely something along those line. Want to remember it being the compiler itself that was hit last time though? And now it's Nimble
21:43:33FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Final call for This month with nim submissions 😄
21:44:16FromDiscord<exelotl> damnit, every month I think "this month I'll have something" and then the month goes by and i don't xD
21:44:47FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Lol
21:45:14FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I'm throwing kashae on there but still need to rework my variant generator sadly 😄
21:45:29FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Still need to throw kashae onto nimble, keep delaying that
22:01:38FromDiscord<ajusa> In reply to @ElegantBeef "Final call for This": oh shoot what's the deadline?
22:01:46FromDiscord<ajusa> and does it have to be merged into nimble?
22:01:52FromDiscord<ajusa> (edit) "nimble?" => "nimble's repo?"
22:01:55FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Uhh... right now? No it doesnt even have to be a project
22:02:12FromDiscord<ajusa> how do I submit it?
22:02:34FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> https://github.com/beef331/website/issues/new?assignees=beef331&labels=&template=this-month-with-nim.md&title=
22:02:52FromDiscord<ajusa> guess I'll try this lol
22:09:09FromDiscord<ajusa> alright submitted, let me know if there are any issues
22:16:07FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Seems good to me, thanks :d
22:17:40FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Well there we go
22:17:43FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> May is over
22:18:11FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I bet the fact i do this on the last day of the month in NA makes the everyone east of me sad 😛
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23:43:27FromDiscord<Varriount> While I'm aware of it's many faults, one thing I find nice about the Windows API is its predictable naming.
23:46:12FromDiscord<Hi02Hi> In reply to @ElegantBeef "I bet the fact": why east of you?
23:46:37FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Cause when i submit the PR it's already the first in many places 😄
23:47:18FromDiscord<Hi02Hi> oh i was thinking it was cause they would miss the deadline and i was confused