<< 01-01-2014 >>
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01:05:35BitPuffinhappy new year guys!
01:07:02dom96BitPuffin: you too!
01:09:36dom96BitPuffin: Why aren't you in VNUG?
01:09:42BitPuffindom96: I am
01:09:54dom96Why aren't you talking?
01:10:11BitPuffindom96: because you aren't?
01:11:08OrionPKhold on, im still in 2013
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01:11:24EXetoCOrionPK: nub
01:11:32*OrionPK cant help it
01:11:56EXetoCyeah you're right
01:21:49Araqhappy new year and good night
01:22:09OrionPKnight
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03:09:43BitPuffindom96: hilarious relevant video http://youtu.be/lPs00_2AleU
03:17:54EXetoCooo
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12:08:15dom96hello
12:09:32dom96BitPuffin: haha
12:11:38dom96BitPuffin: So she's good at causing her own team to lose? lol
12:14:47dom96BitPuffin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UShlfDZ26oI
12:14:51dom96That shows how to play with her well
12:19:52dom96"Song of the Siren is often used to make another initiator's job much easier, as it gives them time to position themselves while your targets are stunned. "
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13:48:40BitPuffindom96: no they won!
13:48:54BitPuffindom96: they were just about to win
13:48:58dom96did they? oh
13:49:11BitPuffindom96: but the naga team had a guy pushin
13:49:17dom96in that case, yeah. It's useful.
13:49:20BitPuffinso right before their thing was destroyed she came in with her ultimate
13:49:29BitPuffinand stalled them enough so that their pusher guy could win haha
13:49:36dom96Well I just spent like an hour reading this: http://www.purgegamers.com/welcome-to-dota-you-suck
13:49:54BitPuffindom96: I've been starting to look at such things too
13:49:58BitPuffinI'm not all super good at dota
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13:50:09BitPuffinI just have some experience from HoN that you don't have hehe :)
13:50:16dom96heh
13:50:24dom96You wanna play today then?
13:50:54BitPuffindom96: I wanna play right after breakfast
13:51:02BitPuffinin the mean time you should hop into ze vnug
13:51:13dom96lol, only eating breakfast now?
13:51:17dom96It's like 3pm for you!
13:51:41BitPuffinyeah
13:51:42dom96i'm going to get tea brb
13:51:43BitPuffinlol
13:51:59BitPuffinhahaha
13:52:02BitPuffinthought you said eat tea
13:55:38dom96hell yeah
13:55:41dom96best breakfast there is
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15:36:27Araq0Muhaha. Today i found the missing last piece
15:41:03Araq0This will be a good year for nimrod
15:42:39Araq0Competitive concurrency
15:43:06Araq0Is complete
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16:34:15BitPuffinAraq is the ultimate teaser
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17:11:22dom96hello wan
17:11:30wanHi
17:23:40BitPuffinthere can be only wan
17:24:02OrionPKhoooo fuck
17:24:04OrionPKhappy new year
17:24:13OrionPKthat was a fucking awesome night :D
17:24:22BitPuffinhappy new year OrionPK!
17:24:36dom96Happy new year!
17:24:41wanBonne année!
17:25:26BitPuffinhappy new reich
17:26:59BitPuffindom96: why you no VNUG
17:27:02OrionPKnow its time to finally change clothes and shower
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17:34:36wanDoes somebody know why some bindings use int params instead of uint when the c call requires size_t ? Does nimrod automatically change it anyway ?
17:36:03BitPuffinwan: probably because they are wrong maybe
17:37:28wanoh
17:37:59wanin the zmq.nim, " int zmq_msg_init_size (zmq_msg_t *msg, size_t size); " in the c header, but " proc msg_init*(msg: var TMsg, size: int): cint{.cdecl,importc: "zmq_msg_init_size", dynlib: zmqdll.}" in zmq.nim
17:39:39wanSo what does 'implicit convertible relations' mean in nimrod's manual?
17:40:35BitPuffinwan: is size_t unsigned though?
17:40:41BitPuffinguess it is
17:40:43BitPuffinhmm
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17:42:55Araqwan: because size_t is unsigned as such evil
17:43:07Araqso we pretend it's signed instead
17:43:22Araqhi wan, hi athaudia welcome
17:43:33BitPuffinAraq: pretending is probably just a little bit more evil though
17:43:34wanSo there is 'implicit conversion magic' that happens, because it's easier to use ints for everything on your nimrod's code?
17:43:39athaudiahey :)
17:43:43BitPuffinAraq: now tell us about competitive conc in the VNUG
17:44:19Araqwan: that's one way to look at it
17:44:41athaudiawhy has the opengl wrapper been removed? havent found anything besides the commit message
17:44:52Araqit's a babel package now, that's why
17:44:55dom96Araq: What is your plan for this concurrency then?
17:45:01athaudiaoh, missed that ^^
17:45:29BitPuffinAraq: in the VNUG it isn't logged so the goland people can't steal it
17:45:39AraqBitPuffin, dom96 I'm writing a blog post. In fact, I nearly finished it already
17:45:50AraqI'm working on part 2 ...
17:45:53BitPuffinAraq: oh snap diddely
17:46:03dom96BitPuffin: ooh
17:46:14dom96er, I mean. Araq: ooh
17:46:14dom96:P
17:46:19BitPuffinAraq: sure you wanna let people know how it works before it is implemnted though? :P
17:46:39Araqyeah but preferably concurrency experts should look at it :P
17:46:45BitPuffinhmm yeah
17:46:57BitPuffinmaybe it's better to publish it as a paper then?
17:48:30Araqwell it's pretty simple stuff
17:48:40Araqpart 2 is the hard part
17:48:57BitPuffinwell I just mean that the experts are probably the kind of audience who reads papers rather than blog posts
17:49:26Araqdepends
17:49:39AraqI find most papers offensive to read :P
17:49:43BitPuffinlol
17:49:46BitPuffinwhy? haha
17:50:25Araqpick one of
17:50:31Araqa) unnecessarily hard
17:50:39Araqb) focusses on the wrong problem
17:51:18BitPuffina) that's what she said
17:51:21Araqc) really not that hard but not explained well
17:52:12Araqwell perhaps (a) and (c) are the same :P
17:52:30BitPuffinnot entirely
17:52:34BitPuffinrelated sometimes matbe
17:52:51Araqalso (d) "only works for Java" or (e) "only works in Haskell"
17:53:10BitPuffinwhat about lisp?
17:53:14BitPuffinno lisp luv? :P
17:53:37Araqor perhaps (f) "leaves out important language features"
17:53:48BitPuffinAraq: do you know any concurrency experts?
17:54:04Araqlol
17:54:13Araqthat doesn't mean anything
17:54:25BitPuffinWell
17:54:33BitPuffinI just mean what's your plan to get their attention
17:54:57AraqI don't need their attention
17:55:17BitPuffinbut you just said you wanted them to look at it
17:55:23BitPuffinyou confusing german man
17:56:24Araqwell we have Jehan, that's good enough
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17:56:44BitPuffinwho is Jehan
17:56:51BitPuffinredneck Johan?
17:57:22Araqthe guy who wrote Python's dictionary implementation iirc
17:57:36BitPuffinhe's a nimbro?
17:57:55Araqyup
17:58:13BitPuffinsweet
17:58:38BitPuffinnow get your arse into das vnug
17:58:52BitPuffinja? jaa?
17:59:06Araqdo you know what a path is?
17:59:19BitPuffina path?
17:59:21BitPuffinyes?
17:59:32Araqwhat's a path?
17:59:53BitPuffinAraq: A way to get somewhere?
17:59:57BitPuffinor like
17:59:59BitPuffinnot a way
18:00:13Araqnot good enough
18:00:21Araqso I won't join :P
18:00:30BitPuffinwhat xD
18:00:40BitPuffinYou can listen to my dog coughing
18:00:58BitPuffinhe's cought a cold or something
18:04:50Demosis teamspeak the proper client for linux or is there some FOSS thing people use
18:04:51BitPuffinAraq: a way or track laid down for walking or made by continual treading.
18:05:02BitPuffinDemos: no foss
18:05:10BitPuffinDemos: dom96 hates freedom
18:05:14BitPuffinhe is anti foss
18:05:41BitPuffinhe wishes that linux was closed sourced and was controlled by the NSA
18:05:41DemosI dont care, but sometimes the non-free stuff on linux is unstable and crap
18:07:00Demoswhat is the difference between "internal mic boost" and "mic boost" in alsamixer?
18:08:41BitPuffinDemos: one is internal and one isn't
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18:18:36BitPuffinEXetoC: vnug
19:03:59NimBotdom96/jester master f1713bd Dominik Picheta [+0 ±3 -0]: Fixes #1.... 2 more lines
19:04:04dom96OrionPK: That should work.
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19:26:07EXetoCdom96: what's the reason for making send and sendHeaders templates?
19:37:31wanyeah, good question, they are only used as function calls in the example (test/routes.nim). Why not proc, why templates ?
19:39:41wanoh right, so you don't have to pass the connection args and it stays 'clean' for the user
19:40:57EXetoCisn't that a source of confusion? I'll have to look at the call sites
19:42:41Araqoh god the "first" star wars movie is awful
19:43:20Araqit's even worse than I remember it
19:44:51wanEXetoC: well, there is already 'invisible' variables in the view scope that are injected anyway thanks to the main get/post templates, it's only using those (request.client/request.asyncClient)
19:46:07wanEXetoC: it shouldn't confuse a jester user because he/she shouldn't be thinking about jester implementation too much in the first place.
19:48:00wanmacros and templates are so nice in nimrod. To avoid my own confusion, I usually call them 'inject_mytemplatename' to make it crystal clear that it isn't a function call and stuff will appear in the scope.
19:48:00EXetoCok so it's for those blocks
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19:49:42wan(but I don't do it for the last mile of templates/macros of course, it is better to keep names short & sweet for the names that library users will actually use)
19:50:31wanAraq: A new hope, you mean?
19:50:57Araqwhat
19:51:26EXetoCmaybe I saw a worse example in babel. I might be wrong though. I asked about it before but didn't get an answer IIRC
19:52:06AraqEXetoC: I think dom96 sometimes uses templates when he can't be bothered to decide whether a proc would have sufficed
19:52:16wanPeople usually complain about jarjar in the phantom menace, not about stuff happening in the first movie 'ep IV'
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19:52:43Araqyeah that jarjar thing is a bad joke
19:53:08AraqI mean the first episode not the first movie
19:53:27wanThese templates are justified, they are user-facing so useful to reduce the number of args
19:54:57wanI don't care if the phantom menace is bad, it made Star wars: Racer possible
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19:55:16wanthe best racing game I have ever played
19:55:28Araqoh interesting
19:55:37Araqshould play that some day then
19:57:19wanIt's very arcade, but you still have to pay a lot of attention not to crash your pod and use the boost every time possible
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19:58:43wanAnd John Williams made great music for the film too, so there's something that must play in the movie's favor
19:58:57EXetoCwan: it depends of course, but there's a clear interface in this case, I think
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20:00:50EXetoCBitPuffin: maybe whenever I get a new headset
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20:11:26dom96I don't see the problem, you can use response.client/asyncClient if you really want.
20:12:56EXetoCread on :p
20:13:42dom96I read it all.
20:13:48dom96Is the problem confusion?
20:13:59dom96Jester provides a DSL.
20:14:09dom96It may not be what you expect, but it works :P
20:14:37EXetoCguess I wasn't being clear then
20:15:24dom96please elaborate then
20:17:59dom96However, some of the internal templates in jester could be turned into procedures.
20:18:06wanWe were wondering at first what was the use of templates instead of simple procs, then we realised it was very useful for hiding implementation details.
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20:18:34dom96indeed.
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20:20:55Araqone of my favourite examples is in tests/specials where the local "test" templates make it rather obvious what the difference between declarative and imperative programming is
20:23:04Araqwell the real difference is of course that "declarative" means "control flow insensitive" and not "hides parameters" but I never finished that blog post ;-)
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20:24:21Demos_I agree with that 100%
20:24:33EXetoCthat might be a more accurate summary, even though it can still be used to achieve the latter
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20:27:45BitPuffinAraq: I do that too sometimes
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20:31:39AraqBitPuffin: what do you do sometimes?
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20:57:18OrionPKdom96 thanks I'll try it out later
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22:09:28BitPuffinAraq: lots of things
22:10:02BitPuffinAraq: no but the using the template thing
22:12:05Araquse the templates, luke
22:13:02BitPuffinAraq: templates forever
22:13:05dom96lol, I used a similar phrase like a couple days ago
22:13:15BitPuffinAraq: except when the error messages are insanely fucked
22:13:23OrionPKtemplates all the way Dow
22:13:26OrionPKdown
22:13:35BitPuffinI don't even use procs anymore
22:13:39BitPuffintemplates always
22:13:43BitPuffinluke
22:13:49OrionPKfuck my autocorrect is fucking me today
22:13:51BitPuffinthe templates will be with you
22:13:52BitPuffinalways
22:22:26AraqBitPuffin: will have a look at the error messages soon
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22:47:53BitPuffinAraq: awesome!
22:48:10BitPuffinAraq: I don't see a blog post on the website
22:48:12BitPuffincomputer what happened
22:48:48Araqwell it doesn't make sense to post part 1 when part 2 isn't finished and might show new problems
22:49:35Araqpart 1 contains the ideas, part 2 the "formal spec"
22:50:12Araqthough usually coming up with the ideas is the harder part ;-)
22:51:04psquidSo my google-fu is failing me: anyone know if there's a particularly current/non-stale RSS/ATOM (ideally both) library already written for nimrod?
22:51:40Araqask gradha when he's around or check out nimforum's source code
22:51:48Araqwhich has RSS support iirc
22:52:24dom96For reading RSS there is: https://github.com/achesak/nimrod-rss
22:52:43psquiddom96: Yeah, reading was what I meant. Sorry for not clarifying. xD
22:52:49psquidI'll have a look at that. :)
22:53:26OrionPKwelp
22:53:32BitPuffinAraq: does indeed make sense to post part 1
22:53:37BitPuffinyou just say it's part one
22:53:42BitPuffinand like stay tuned for part 2
22:53:46OrionPKI think this socket change will have to be pretty drastic now that I'm thinking about it
22:53:52OrionPKsocket change to ircfamiliar
22:53:56OrionPKfor jester
22:54:10Araqlol that's exactly how it ends
22:54:12dom96really? how so?
22:54:16OrionPKbecause I'm rendering templates within templates
22:54:23BitPuffinAraq: hahah, so post it
22:54:28Araqno
22:54:40Araqthings get released here when they are ready
22:54:49BitPuffinAraq: by the way I really like this feature: proc foo(a: varargs[string, `$`])
22:54:53OrionPKso i pass the body of the rendered page to the 'master' view
22:54:59OrionPKwhich puts it inside the layout
22:55:00AraqBitPuffin: so do I :-)
22:55:05dom96OrionPK: oh...
22:55:09BitPuffinAraq: I'm glad you added it
22:55:09dom96bbl
22:55:20OrionPKi'll have to think about it some more
22:55:26Araqwell I invented it
22:55:30Araqso it had to be added :P
22:55:35BitPuffin</brag>
22:55:37BitPuffinyeah
22:55:39BitPuffinit's awesome
22:55:46BitPuffinI mean I'm glad you came up with it
22:56:15AraqI also call it a "local type converter"
22:56:35BitPuffinit's kind of a nice tradeoff between strong typing and being able to take parameters of multiple types
22:56:44BitPuffinso it's like as long as this constraint holds
22:56:49BitPuffinor it won't compile
22:56:51BitPuffinawesome
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23:06:08OrionPKis there a mechanism to pass multiple statements to a macro
23:07:56OrionPKdom96 I think I can change the master layout views into macros
23:08:16OrionPKthat should allow everything to be sent in order
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23:08:44OrionPKthen I just need to redo all the zip stuff:p
23:08:49OrionPKgzip
23:57:36dom96OrionPK: Great. You're probably going to want to use response.client/asyncClient directly.
23:58:18dom96oh and make sure to call sendHeaders first