| 00:00:15 | gradha | I guess I could, but what would I want to even search for? recently I tried running the remote build and koch was failing at reading characters from a config file |
| 00:00:25 | Araq | you should check for a start if GCC and nimrod agree on the target cpu |
| 00:01:05 | gradha | how would I test that? |
| 00:01:32 | Araq | what does "nimrod" say? and what "gcc -v"? |
| 00:02:14 | gradha | right, the last tried I managed to get up to koch boot, so I guess the compiler is on |
| 00:02:26 | Araq | but hrm we have static asserts for that now in the generated C code ... |
| 00:05:39 | Araq | well zahary knows how to debug these things, we should nag him the next time he's around |
| 00:06:14 | gradha | maybe he already tried but didn't solve it? |
| 00:06:28 | Araq | unlikely |
| 00:06:38 | Araq | it's not that hard |
| 00:07:10 | gradha | clang says: Nimrod Compiler Version 0.9.1 (2013-02-21) [MacOSX: amd64] |
| 00:07:15 | Araq | you only need to figure out which string object the GC deallocated which it shouldn't |
| 00:07:20 | gradha | gcc says: Nimrod Compiler Version 0.9.1 (2013-01-31) [MacOSX: amd64] |
| 00:07:37 | gradha | well, it did get the date wrong, didn't it? |
| 00:07:48 | Araq | and look at the generated assembler and ... |
| 00:07:50 | gradha | it's first of march, not 31st of january |
| 00:08:02 | Araq | it's likely irrelevant though |
| 00:08:24 | Araq | if bootstrap didn't complete it'll show the date that's in the generated C code |
| 00:09:11 | gradha | this is the last from koch boot |
| 00:09:12 | gradha | http://pastebin.com/LC84E9sK |
| 00:10:22 | Araq | what version of GCC do you use? |
| 00:13:02 | gradha | gcc version http://pastebin.com/SwBbBTt7 |
| 00:13:11 | gradha | the full compilation log at http://dl.dropbox.com/u/145894/t/recompile_log.61586.txt |
| 00:14:10 | gradha | I have the feeling it's not really gcc but a gcc compatibility frontend for llvm |
| 00:16:01 | gradha | ha /usr/bin/gcc@ -> llvm-gcc-4.2 |
| 00:16:32 | Araq | gcc version 4.2.1 is quite old |
| 00:16:47 | Araq | I have 4.7.2 here |
| 00:17:07 | gradha | yes, maybe I could try that over the weekend before upgrading os |
| 00:17:50 | gradha | I could even try gcc4.2.4 available through ports, to at least compare with a non apple compiler similar in version/features |
| 00:18:00 | gradha | sounds like a plan |
| 00:18:26 | Araq | the log is strange though |
| 00:18:41 | Araq | the prebuilt C code produces a compiler that can compile Nimrod |
| 00:18:50 | Araq | but this new compiler can't anymore |
| 00:19:20 | gradha | there was a time where even the first one wouldn't build, I could bisect the version if that helped |
| 00:20:01 | Araq | dunno |
| 00:20:15 | Araq | I can't really help here |
| 00:20:27 | Araq | give me a remote shell please :P |
| 00:20:41 | Araq | but I have to sleep anyway now |
| 00:20:48 | gradha | good night |
| 00:21:05 | Araq | we can hunt this issue at the weekend |
| 00:21:10 | Araq | good night |
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| 02:23:54 | reactormonk | Araq, well, I'd like that loop to be working |
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| 14:27:10 | SirKronos | hey there =) |
| 14:27:20 | SirKronos | anybody home? |
| 14:44:06 | SirKronos | so, I want to discuss something about Aporia; basically it's a bit of a bug report |
| 14:47:52 | SirKronos | ok, here's the problem: Aporia is not closing tabs with the x button, nor does Aporia closes with the window close button. Also, Aporia doesn't seem to be receiving any keyboard input to the source editing screen. |
| 14:48:17 | SirKronos | and yeah, I wanted to talk with you guys, but it looks like it's easier to do it on the forums |
| 14:49:47 | SirKronos | btw, Nimrod Forum already deserves some thread organization into topics and subtopics, to make search easier. |
| 14:49:59 | SirKronos | well, cya sometime |
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| 18:33:59 | avarus | hi |
| 18:34:15 | Araq | welcome avarus |
| 18:54:55 | dom96 | welcome to #nimrod avarus :) |
| 18:58:32 | Araq | dom96: I don't get it, why would the debug mode cause that much trouble? |
| 18:58:59 | Araq | oh hrm ... maybe thread local storage doesn't work with the GCC you're using? |
| 18:59:24 | Araq | then it would be unstable in -d:release mode and completely broken in debug mode |
| 18:59:27 | dom96 | Yes, possible. It works on my Windows installation (which has quite an old gcc) |
| 18:59:51 | dom96 | But I reproduced the issue in an XP VM, which has a newer GCC (I presume, haven't actually checked.) |
| 19:00:13 | Araq | tried with thread local storage emulation? |
| 19:00:32 | dom96 | no, but I can in a second. |
| 19:00:55 | dom96 | (well a couple of minutes :P) |
| 19:07:18 | dom96 | Araq: hrm, seems TLS emulation is enabled by default for Windows in Aporia's cfg |
| 19:08:11 | Araq | hrm turn it off then |
| 19:13:00 | dom96 | doesn't even launch without tls emulation |
| 19:13:16 | dom96 | no errors though |
| 19:13:32 | Araq | hm, can you try visual C++ instead? |
| 19:18:32 | dom96 | ugh, do I have to install Visual Studio to get that? |
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| 19:21:03 | Araq | there is/used to be a console only edition |
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| 19:23:18 | dom96 | well my VM doesn't even have enough space to install VS. |
| 19:23:45 | Araq | ok |
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| 19:24:27 | filwit | hi guys |
| 19:24:34 | avarus | hi filwit |
| 19:24:35 | dom96 | hey filwit! |
| 19:24:40 | filwit | :) |
| 19:26:49 | dom96 | Araq: Please test it on your machine when you get the time. |
| 19:31:18 | Araq | dom96: I will this weekend |
| 19:31:32 | Araq | filwit: do you happen to know what a "Deferred Rendering with a Multiple Render Target approach" is? |
| 19:31:45 | filwit | Araq: yes |
| 19:32:00 | filwit | Araq: are you looking for help on that? |
| 19:32:08 | filwit | Araq: it's actually something i know a lot about |
| 19:32:55 | filwit | Araq: also, what are you trying to make? :) |
| 19:33:19 | Araq | I'm only reading stuff about sc 2's engine |
| 19:33:37 | filwit | sc? |
| 19:33:42 | filwit | sc == source? |
| 19:33:58 | Araq | the game with zerg and protoss |
| 19:34:10 | filwit | don't know it |
| 19:35:44 | * | dom96 whispers "Blizzard" |
| 19:36:13 | filwit | anyways, just a hint. "Deferred Rendering" (can only be done with multiple render targets) is a technique of rendering all geometrical data into pixel buffers, and then doing lighting calculations on those buffers as a "post-render" effect |
| 19:36:37 | filwit | vs doing the lighting calculation while you're rendering the geometry (in one pass type of thing) |
| 19:37:14 | filwit | all modern games use Deferred Rendering (though it's not possible on OpenGLES 2.0) |
| 19:38:20 | filwit | cause it allows you to place and unlimited amount of lights in the scene, and is cheaper per-light (you pay for rendering multiple pixel buffers though) |
| 19:38:28 | filwit | anyways, that's what that means |
| 19:39:59 | Araq | hm I can't really follow |
| 19:40:30 | filwit | so Araq, are "Object Variants" in Nimrod basically a Union with a "kind" that is placed in a negative pointer address? |
| 19:40:51 | Araq | no need for a negative address |
| 19:41:07 | Araq | it's a struct with an embedded union |
| 19:41:09 | filwit | Araq: don't worry about the Deferred Rendering thing.. it basically just means they can use a lot of lights in the game |
| 19:41:23 | filwit | Araq: i see |
| 19:41:33 | Araq | I'm not worried, I'm curious |
| 19:41:53 | filwit | Araq: isn't the "type information" of normal types placed in negative address space? |
| 19:42:07 | filwit | at negative** |
| 19:42:23 | Araq | only for GC'ed objects |
| 19:42:53 | filwit | yes, i figured. Okay, so why isn't it the same for Object Variants? |
| 19:43:47 | filwit | well... i guess it doesn't make any difference either wya |
| 19:43:57 | filwit | nevermind |
| 19:44:17 | filwit | thanks for the clarification |
| 19:44:43 | filwit | Araq: what didn't you understand about my description of Deferred Rendering? |
| 19:45:25 | filwit | basically, a "render target" is a bitmap that OpenGL/DirectX can render into |
| 19:45:31 | Araq | can't see the difference: you have to produce pixels and afterwards you apply light information |
| 19:45:50 | filwit | ahh, well it has to do with shaders |
| 19:46:03 | filwit | see, you calculate the light in the shader |
| 19:46:31 | filwit | and there's a limited number of "shader constants" (variables that get passed from the system memory to the GPU memory) |
| 19:47:03 | filwit | so with Forward Rendering (non Deferred) you can only pass a set amount of light information into each shader |
| 19:47:37 | filwit | and each shader is customized... so if you have a situation where there's only 1 light, you need a completely different shader than in situations with 2 lights, etc |
| 19:47:53 | filwit | so you can imagine the complication when you have moving lights |
| 19:48:22 | filwit | sometimes an object is in the bounds of 2 lights, or 3, etc.. and you have to switch out the shader used |
| 19:49:40 | filwit | then, if you hit the maximum light-limit (usually about 4), then you have to re-render all the geometry and "blend" the image over the original (there's also a lot of state switching in that case, and alpha-blending is slow) |
| 19:50:25 | filwit | with Deferred, all you do is render all the geometrical data into multiple bitmap layers... that includes Color (non-lit), Normals, depth, etc |
| 19:50:55 | filwit | the information needed varies depending on which effects you want to do |
| 19:51:40 | filwit | anyways, then you take those bitmaps, and render the lights "into them" |
| 19:52:43 | filwit | basically you just render the lights affected area, using the previously rendered bitmaps as info for what geometry the light is hitting |
| 19:53:08 | filwit | so lights in the distance have a very small "affected area" and are very cheap |
| 19:53:13 | filwit | make sense? |
| 19:54:52 | Araq | I think so, thanks |
| 19:54:56 | filwit | ps. a "shader" is a GPU program |
| 19:55:02 | Araq | I know :P |
| 19:55:06 | filwit | okay |
| 19:55:26 | dom96 | One of these days I will have to play around with shaders. |
| 19:55:40 | filwit | yes, they're fun |
| 19:56:10 | filwit | all modern rendering pipelines require shaders |
| 19:56:52 | filwit | OpenGL ES 2.0 doesn't support Fixed-Function (non-shaders pipeline) anymore, nor does DirectX 10 + |
| 19:57:27 | filwit | and apparently they're removing the Fixed Function stuff from Mesa soon as well |
| 19:58:18 | Araq | speaking of which ... we need a set of pragmas for generating shader code instead of C code |
| 19:58:34 | filwit | my brother has already made that for C# :) |
| 19:58:43 | Araq | -.- |
| 19:58:47 | filwit | it takes C# code, and generates multiple shaders |
| 19:58:51 | reactormonk | ^^ |
| 19:59:02 | filwit | cause each platform has a lot of differences |
| 19:59:12 | Araq | well ... we want the same |
| 19:59:33 | filwit | well, it's a lot of work really |
| 19:59:45 | filwit | not too bad, but it requires a lot of reflection |
| 19:59:52 | filwit | (if you do it like he did) |
| 20:00:00 | reactormonk | filwit, macros? |
| 20:00:12 | filwit | yeah, macros could make it easier |
| 20:00:44 | filwit | actually... |
| 20:00:49 | filwit | Nimrod's macros are awesome |
| 20:01:13 | filwit | yeah... that would actually work well |
| 20:01:14 | reactormonk | filwit, afaik the API isn't well considered |
| 20:01:29 | reactormonk | but macros would make it hell a lot easier |
| 20:02:03 | filwit | no, you'd want to do it through macros |
| 20:02:06 | filwit | one sec, brb |
| 20:02:28 | Araq | reactormonk: there will be a migration path for the macros api |
| 20:02:44 | Araq | in fact, it's mostly the nnk* enum that's really ugly |
| 20:03:14 | Araq | it's easy to deprecate that |
| 20:05:41 | reactormonk | Araq, anything about --def ? |
| 20:06:25 | Araq | I'm still working on better overloading resolution |
| 20:12:58 | reactormonk | good, I'll go hack some scala then |
| 20:16:10 | Araq | that's blackmailing! |
| 20:17:18 | reactormonk | That is a statement of fact. |
| 20:17:29 | reactormonk | Well, homework :-) |
| 20:17:39 | reactormonk | https://github.com/Tass/tshrdlu |
| 20:17:55 | reactormonk | I consider changing my github name to reactormonk, but that might piss some people off |
| 20:18:42 | filwit | why would it piss people off? |
| 20:21:51 | reactormonk | filwit, not that I'm that important, but it's still deadlinks |
| 20:22:25 | filwit | oh, i see |
| 20:22:39 | filwit | i thought your name was offensive for some reason, or something like that |
| 20:22:51 | reactormonk | ... apparently someone else is/was using that nickname. Friend in the university was like "I know that nick!" |
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| 21:41:58 | exhu | http://www.tinycorelinux.net/download_howto.html -- faster than light |
| 21:43:52 | Araq | but it looks crappy |
| 21:44:11 | exhu | but it eats only 30 megs ram with graphical desktop -) |
| 21:45:18 | exhu | i was convinced that modern kernel alone is no less than 60 megs these days, and yet it can be smaller. |
| 21:45:43 | Trixar_za | Compression is great though |
| 21:45:43 | Trixar_za | :P |
| 21:46:04 | exhu | i speak about runtime |
| 21:46:30 | Trixar_za | The kernel can run pretty light if you remove the right options |
| 21:46:50 | Trixar_za | The TinyCore guys does that pretty well |
| 21:46:56 | Trixar_za | SliTaz needs more work with it |
| 21:46:58 | exhu | it reminded me good old win95 days -))) |
| 21:48:44 | exhu | i've received macbookpro core i7 bla-bla-bla upgrade today at work and look, it doesn't run faster than previous three yrs old model with core 2 duo. dismay. |
| 21:48:58 | filwit | those days weren't good. That was the age of the virus outbreak |
| 21:49:17 | Trixar_za | Yes, but most of us were to dumb to care |
| 21:49:22 | filwit | lol |
| 21:49:23 | Trixar_za | too* |
| 21:49:48 | filwit | i guess we did have Kazaa and LimeWire! |
| 21:49:51 | exhu | internet become available only in 2000-s in my country, so i don't remember viruses loses. |
| 21:50:18 | Trixar_za | We had dialup up until then |
| 21:50:42 | filwit | oh, well in here in the US, every computer with Windows XP and below had at least one virus... and would periodically pick up a new one every week |
| 21:50:55 | Trixar_za | You used to rejoice that you could download a 20MB program in 30 minutes |
| 21:51:07 | Trixar_za | now I get annoyed if it takes more than 3 minutes to download |
| 21:51:09 | filwit | ^ lol, true |
| 21:51:31 | exhu | well adsl has become available to me only since 2008 -) |
| 21:51:45 | filwit | i remember downloading this 600mb file... wake up the next morning and was happy to see it was almost done |
| 21:51:50 | filwit | lol |
| 21:51:54 | gradha | exhu: have you run any benchmarks on the thing or is it just general usage feeling? I have a 3 yrs old macbook pro and according to benchmarks the current models rank six time whatever scores they measure |
| 21:52:43 | exhu | no benchmarks, just opening finder, checking email |
| 21:52:58 | gradha | meh, that's io bound, not really cpu stuff |
| 21:53:12 | gradha | I happen to use lots of video encoding and I'm drolling over new hardware just for that |
| 21:53:24 | exhu | it's poorly written, it hangs |
| 21:53:26 | gradha | besides, my current machine gets too hot and lately powers off due to overheating since the last java update |
| 21:53:43 | * | Araq never experienced a speedy mac system |
| 21:54:31 | gradha | Araq: I mostly use the terminal, which is ok. Can tell you that both eclipse and xcode are horrible dogs |
| 21:54:33 | exhu | i don't think laptops are viable for performance and loaded tasks, 15" macbook becomes hot after a couple of minutes if c++ compilation. |
| 21:54:53 | gradha | exhu: in fact after it reaches a certain temperature the performance decreases to avoid melting |
| 21:56:18 | exhu | i'm very disappointed that there's actually so low benefit of such an expensive hardware update. such a waste, gladly it's company expenses. not personal. |
| 21:57:04 | Araq | gradha: startup times for "terminal" are bad too |
| 21:57:06 | gradha | at the moment it seems to be the only option for high dpi screens, I heard asus was planning to launch one laptop with over 300dpi, but haven't seen any market moves |
| 21:57:27 | exhu | you can build at least two decent miditower pcs which will outperform that top laptops. |
| 21:57:31 | gradha | Araq: define startup for terminal |
| 21:57:53 | Araq | you click on the icon ... you wait |
| 21:58:49 | exhu | but the company develops soft for ios devices, so there's no option to go with pc :( |
| 21:58:52 | avarus | exhu: I put in a ssd into my old core2duo mac mini and it runs great with it :) (finder, though, is still crap :P) |
| 21:59:02 | gradha | non empirical test here shows bellow 2 secs with video encoding in background with 3 yrd old hardware, doesn't seem that bad |
| 21:59:37 | gradha | besides, I just open new tabs, terminal is always running |
| 21:59:57 | gradha | exhu: you work as ios mobile developer? |
| 22:00:00 | Araq | well really only have experience with macosx 10.4 |
| 22:00:06 | exhu | i have very old (2006) hitachy hdd in my linux mint desktop, never had a problem operating it when opening a folders with a lot of photos -- it builds preview for each and still the system is responsive. |
| 22:00:14 | filwit | Nice, Steam Linux use about doubled in a month |
| 22:00:44 | filwit | roughly %2 now |
| 22:00:47 | avarus | that's good |
| 22:00:50 | exhu | gradha, yes ios dev |
| 22:01:25 | dom96 | filwit: cool. I am sadly facing a problem with it on Cinnamon. Switching to XFCE is almost the same as rebooting to Windows :\ |
| 22:01:43 | gradha | I've been looking for a decent job recently, tell me if you know of any remote positions, everywhere I sumbit my CV they ignore me (understandable, thoguh) |
| 22:01:47 | filwit | dom96: yeah i feel ya, never a fan of Xfce |
| 22:01:58 | avarus | gradha: why understandable? |
| 22:02:01 | filwit | dom96: you use Mint Debian? |
| 22:02:03 | Trixar_za | gradha: I have the same problem |
| 22:02:12 | filwit | dom96: if not, you should. Problem might go away |
| 22:02:17 | gradha | most of the time companies simply ignore people out of the blue |
| 22:02:22 | avarus | ah ok |
| 22:02:25 | gradha | also, HR departments |
| 22:02:27 | dom96 | filwit: XFCE ain't bad, I was mostly referring to the annoyance of having to log out and log back in. But yeah, I still prefer Cinnamon over XFCE. |
| 22:02:31 | Trixar_za | So I started my own business. If that doesn't show the buggers initiative, then I don't know what will |
| 22:02:34 | dom96 | filwit: Nah, Arch Linux. |
| 22:02:49 | filwit | dom96: oh yeah duh! in that case, don't switch :P |
| 22:02:52 | gradha | countless of times I've spoken to development teams always looking for people, yet HR department filtering out good candidates, because they are non technichal |
| 22:03:10 | gradha | it always surprises me how companies trust non technical people to evaluate people for technical jobs |
| 22:03:20 | filwit | dom96: that's odd though... i don't have any problems with Steam, and I use GnomeShell |
| 22:03:39 | gradha | so basically I've ended up finding jobs through knowing people behind HR's firewall |
| 22:03:42 | filwit | dom96: which is pretty much the same as Cinnamon |
| 22:03:44 | Trixar_za | gradha: Which reminds me. I once saw a Linux Server Administrator Job. The company ONLY works with Red Hat Servers |
| 22:03:58 | avarus | so? |
| 22:03:59 | dom96 | filwit: Steam works fine-ish. Games just show a black screen on Cinnamon though, on gnome-shell I get lots of flicker. |
| 22:03:59 | Trixar_za | Yet one of the requirements: Must have MCSE |
| 22:04:00 | exhu | gradha, companies don't want a remote developer, they need fulltime office workers. |
| 22:04:04 | avarus | Trixar_za: lol |
| 22:04:23 | gradha | exhu: yeah, it's a shame I've been working remotely four years know and nobody believes me |
| 22:04:37 | Trixar_za | Oh and 4 years of experience with Windows 8 |
| 22:04:44 | gradha | this internet thing is just a fad anyway |
| 22:04:45 | avarus | hehe |
| 22:04:47 | filwit | dom96: you have two screens? |
| 22:04:53 | dom96 | filwit: yeah. |
| 22:04:59 | filwit | dom96: that's your problem |
| 22:05:07 | filwit | dom96: disable one with xrandr |
| 22:05:26 | filwit | dom96: just write a script that disables one, then one to enable it again |
| 22:05:29 | dom96 | filwit: I see. But then I can't see what's happening on IRC :( |
| 22:05:49 | filwit | dom69: oh well? better than flicker or black-screen |
| 22:05:58 | filwit | dom96: AMD or NVidia? |
| 22:06:12 | dom96 | filwit: True. AMD. |
| 22:06:15 | reactormonk | Trixar_za, you forgot 5 years of experience with HTML5 |
| 22:06:30 | filwit | dom96: AMD has bad problems with two-screens, plus, the drivers are tricky to setup, but you can get them good |
| 22:06:32 | Trixar_za | Lucky that wasn't there |
| 22:06:43 | Trixar_za | Well, not yet, but it's only a matter of time until it filters down |
| 22:06:48 | dom96 | filwit: Well as I said, it works well in XFCE/Compiz. |
| 22:06:51 | exhu | i use xfce until i found inux mint with cinnamon, now use it on desktop. but i use xubuntu on intel laptop because i've used to it, although flicker irritates me (when moving windows, scrolling, launching a movie...) |
| 22:06:53 | filwit | dom96: you want the command to disable the screen? |
| 22:06:59 | dom96 | filwit: sure. |
| 22:07:19 | filwit | dom96: firs you have to find out your screen names... one sec |
| 22:07:36 | filwit | dom96: type "xrandr" in the terminal |
| 22:07:45 | filwit | dom96: it will list your screens |
| 22:07:52 | * | dom96 just did that ;) |
| 22:08:12 | filwit | k, one sec |
| 22:08:16 | dom96 | I like how it thinks my secondary monitor is a CRT, when in fact it's not. |
| 22:08:48 | filwit | you should change that maybe? |
| 22:08:53 | avarus | ignore that :) |
| 22:09:01 | dom96 | I don't think it matters. |
| 22:09:48 | filwit | okay, run this to turn it off: xrandr --output DFP10 --off --output DFP11 --mode 1920x1080 |
| 22:09:58 | filwit | where "DPF10" is one of your monitors |
| 22:10:10 | filwit | and "DPF11" is the monitor you want to be on |
| 22:10:27 | filwit | obviously, you want to use whatever resolution your monitors are |
| 22:11:10 | dom96 | how do I switch it back on? |
| 22:11:14 | filwit | then to turn it back on, run: xrandr --output DFP10 --mode 1920x1080 --right |
| 22:11:56 | filwit | or, you can set the position in pixels like this: xrandr --output DFP10 --mode 1920x1080 --pos 1920x0 |
| 22:12:50 | filwit | just try it real quick, it wont work if you don't have the names right |
| 22:13:19 | dom96 | I'll try it later. I don't want to mess up my monitors this late at night, too tired to fix any weird accidents. |
| 22:13:27 | filwit | anyways, just use "xrandr --help" for all the options |
| 22:13:39 | filwit | dom96: you can always restart |
| 22:13:46 | filwit | dom96: it doesn't save the settings |
| 22:14:01 | filwit | dom96: but later is fine |
| 22:14:03 | filwit | :) |
| 22:14:16 | filwit | just save those commands as bash scripts |
| 22:14:23 | gradha | what the hell is a dragonegg and why does it show up when I want to install gcc on mac? |
| 22:14:33 | filwit | and then you just have to run them before/after you launch steam |
| 22:14:57 | filwit | gradha: dragonegg is LLVM's stdc replacement |
| 22:15:21 | gradha | huh, the description doesn't match then |
| 22:15:34 | gradha | I've got "Dragonegg is a LLVM plug-in for GCC", which reads weird |
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| 22:15:42 | filwit | gradha: LLVM is a core part of Mac now, so you need dragonegg (i think) to compile C/C++... could be wrong about that though |
| 22:15:46 | gradha | because llvm has a gcc frontend plugin, and this would mean gcc has an llvm frontend? |
| 22:15:56 | filwit | LLVM isn't a frontend plugin... |
| 22:16:12 | filwit | LLVM can be used as a GCC front end |
| 22:16:30 | gradha | always though it was the other way round |
| 22:16:38 | filwit | but it also has it's own compiler |
| 22:16:46 | avarus | didn't you just installed xcode? |
| 22:16:48 | gradha | that llvm was going to replace gcc, and there is a "gcc compatibility" mode for llvm |
| 22:16:52 | filwit | gradha: no you're right |
| 22:17:00 | reactormonk | usually you don't have to set the mode |
| 22:17:03 | filwit | gradha: GCC can be used on top of LLVM |
| 22:17:15 | filwit | gradha: mostly for OpenMP support |
| 22:17:34 | avarus | never was asked to install dragonegg :) |
| 22:17:45 | filwit | gradha: and DragonEgg might not be the default stdclib, it might just be an alternative right now |
| 22:17:49 | gradha | avarus: I'm installing rougue gcc versions because xcode's gcc fucks up nimrod |
| 22:18:45 | filwit | dom96: do you know any C code? |
| 22:19:15 | dom96 | filwit: A bit, why? |
| 22:19:35 | filwit | dom96: nevermind... it's pointless |
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| 22:19:52 | avarus_ | oh I so hate my mac minis wifi :I |
| 22:20:27 | filwit | dom96: was just going to say that those commands I gave you, what I did was write a simple C program + make file (to install it) |
| 22:20:46 | * | avarus quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:21:07 | filwit | dom96: which makes it much easier to use (just launch a terminal and type "myscreen on/off" |
| 22:21:37 | dom96 | why use C when I have Nimrod? |
| 22:22:05 | filwit | dom96: but you can just use Bash (or Nimrod) and install them into /usr/bin and it will be the same.. i was just going to offer to give you the program i wrote |
| 22:22:21 | filwit | dom96: but it's too simple, you can just do it yourself :P |
| 22:22:41 | dom96 | indeed |
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| 23:01:16 | gradha | I did try to compile nimrod with a config file saying cc = gcc-mp-4.7, but it failed due to invalid command line option: 'mp', will quoting help? |
| 23:01:37 | reactormonk | gradha, likley |
| 23:01:50 | Araq | use cc = "gcc-mp-4.7" |
| 23:03:18 | gradha | huh, Error: unknown C compiler: 'gcc-mp-4.7', I guess I should try a full path? |
| 23:03:27 | Araq | er sorry |
| 23:03:35 | Araq | cc is still gcc |
| 23:03:52 | Araq | you need to set the exe instead |
| 23:04:18 | Araq | gcc.exe = "gcc-mp-4.7" |
| 23:04:32 | Araq | gcc.linkerexe = "gcc-mp-4.7" |
| 23:09:08 | gradha | maybe it's not an apple thing, that compiler fails too |
| 23:09:24 | gradha | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/145894/t/recompile_log.90275.txt |
| 23:10:11 | Araq | but not with the same error |
| 23:10:26 | gradha | fun, if I run that line myself I get gcc-mp-4.7: error: unrecognized command line option '-fasm-blocks' |
| 23:10:29 | Araq | bin/nimrod c --parallelBuild:1 koch |
| 23:10:32 | gradha | and removing -fasm-blocks works |
| 23:11:07 | Araq | mac's gcc used to require -fasm-blocks for whatever reason |
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| 23:15:47 | gradha | so looks like 4.7 and removing the fasm-blocks is succesful http://dl.dropbox.com/u/145894/t/recompile_log.91032.txt |
| 23:16:29 | Araq | yay :-) |
| 23:16:58 | gradha | my basic programs compile and run too, though that's not much of a stress test |
| 23:17:31 | Araq | the compiler itself is no bad stress test |
| 23:18:02 | Araq | bootstrap with -d:release please |
| 23:18:30 | gradha | is that more stressing? |
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| 23:18:53 | Araq | it stresses in a different way |
| 23:20:17 | gradha | -d:release reports success too |
| 23:20:28 | Araq | ok |
| 23:27:33 | gradha | so basically, apple's xcode gcc fails, apple's xcode llvm works, and macports gcc 4.7 works without -fasm-blocks |
| 23:27:52 | gradha | want me to test other gcc versions? |
| 23:27:56 | Araq | hell no |
| 23:28:14 | Araq | I'm happy with this result |
| 23:29:21 | gradha | not sure what changes for most mac users, whose default will discourage using nimrod |
| 23:30:41 | gradha | yes, tomorrow looks like a nice day to die upgrading to mountain lion |
| 23:30:48 | gradha | I'm 100% positive I'm going to regret it |
| 23:30:59 | avarus_ | you won't regret it |
| 23:31:27 | gradha | I haven't enjoyed yet any macosx upgrade, all of them break stuff |
| 23:31:39 | avarus_ | they break compatibility |
| 23:31:42 | avarus_ | that's for sure :) |
| 23:31:52 | Araq | gradha: change the default for macosx then please and make a pull request |
| 23:32:07 | avarus_ | but the overall improvements are really good |
| 23:32:15 | gradha | Araq: clang then? |
| 23:32:20 | Araq | yeah |
| 23:32:59 | gradha | avarus_: I've been told mountain lion is actually an improvement over lion |
| 23:33:24 | avarus_ | yes, I used lion for a long time; and I hated it :P |
| 23:33:32 | avarus_ | mountain lion though is quite "ok" :) |
| 23:33:57 | avarus_ | but finder is still crap :P |
| 23:33:58 | avarus_ | as always |
| 23:34:25 | gradha | there are only two annoying things for me with regards to snow leopard: can't stop file preview in dialog boxes, and lion broke custom gestures triggering during icon drags |
| 23:34:57 | avarus_ | :D |
| 23:35:23 | gradha | unfortunately none of them are "mainstream", so I guess they remain broken in ml |
| 23:35:54 | avarus_ | yep :) |
| 23:36:10 | gradha | not sure why everybody on mac hates finder, I rarey use it |
| 23:36:13 | gradha | rarely |
| 23:36:20 | avarus_ | yes, because it sucks :) |
| 23:36:28 | avarus_ | I rarely use it, too because of that :P |
| 23:36:39 | gradha | I've never used file managers |
| 23:36:51 | gradha | don't even know what the alternative is |
| 23:37:02 | avarus_ | for some file types having a manager is useful :) |
| 23:38:04 | gradha | actually I'm lying, I guess I use finder because otherwise I wouldn't see icons on my desktop |
| 23:38:44 | avarus_ | I'm not a nitpicker :P |
| 23:39:11 | avarus_ | didn't know that this is finder, too, to be honest |
| 23:40:10 | gradha | I have the vague feeling of finder crashing and all desktop icons flashing briefly |
| 23:40:24 | gradha | or maybe that's the dock crashing |
| 23:40:30 | avarus_ | dunno :) |
| 23:40:56 | avarus_ | os x was very stable for me, all the years |
| 23:41:51 | avarus_ | still is |
| 23:41:58 | avarus_ | still hate it a bit though :P |
| 23:42:01 | gradha | it's for me too, I've rarely had any kernel panics, the finder/dock are other story, they randomly crash when I'm filling up the ram with some process |
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| 23:42:34 | gradha | ah, except itunes, that greeted me phenomenally http://dl.dropbox.com/u/145894/the_new_itunes.jpg |
| 23:43:02 | avarus_ | crap :) |
| 23:44:13 | gradha | did they already fix mountain lion's File:/// problem? |
| 23:44:25 | avarus_ | what problem is that¿ |
| 23:44:41 | gradha | stupid apple fuckers running code where you didn't expect it |
| 23:44:47 | gradha | I'll look it up |
| 23:45:08 | avarus_ | http://www.flickr.com/photos/schipplock/sets/72157626241913075/ <-- this was my biggest apple fail |
| 23:45:17 | avarus_ | everything was brand new :P |
| 23:45:24 | avarus_ | but os x couldn't handle the screen |
| 23:45:28 | avarus_ | dunno why :) |
| 23:45:40 | avarus_ | an update fixed the issue |
| 23:46:10 | avarus_ | http://www.flickr.com/photos/schipplock/3887215842/in/set-72157626241913075 <-- my favourite :) |
| 23:46:21 | gradha | here's the File:/// bug http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2013/02/02/typing-these-eight-characters-will-crash-almost-any-application-on-your-mac/ |
| 23:46:30 | avarus_ | ah that bug |
| 23:46:39 | avarus_ | yes, that's known to be fixed |
| 23:46:45 | avarus_ | I had no trouble with it |
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| 23:49:26 | Araq | good night |
| 23:49:31 | gradha | bye |
| 23:49:33 | avarus_ | bye Araq |
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| 23:50:47 | gradha | avarus_: maybe macosx was thinking you had a fancy 3d display and was displaying stereoscoping widgets? |
| 23:51:06 | avarus_ | no, that was 2009 |
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| 23:51:27 | avarus_ | http://www.flickr.com/photos/schipplock/3887207328/in/set-72157626241913075 <-- :) |
| 23:51:56 | gradha | yeah, yesterday safari was doing funny things on me http://dl.dropbox.com/u/145894/t/time_to_stop_programming.jpg |
| 23:52:17 | avarus_ | great :) |
| 23:52:47 | avarus_ | I activated rtl once but this is new to me :) |
| 23:53:14 | gradha | I wish I knew how I activated that, Araq said must have been some arabic porn site or something |
| 23:53:55 | avarus_ | arabic and porn...that just sounds wrong :) |
| 23:54:07 | filwit | ...or right... |
| 23:54:10 | avarus_ | :P |
| 23:54:13 | gradha | ...or left... |
| 23:54:17 | filwit | ;-) |