| 00:09:04 | * | gradha quit (Quit: bbl, have youtube videos to watch) |
| 00:09:25 | avarus_ | arabic porn videos to watch :> |
| 00:09:37 | filwit | lol |
| 00:13:15 | dom96 | filwit: Thought up any new concepts for an Aporia logo? |
| 00:13:47 | filwit | yes, i think |
| 00:14:21 | dom96 | I stumbled upon this and find it quite cool: http://gallery.dpcdn.pl/img/-/-x-/-/-/-/News/39480/20130225153219_00.png |
| 00:14:25 | dom96 | (Don't judge me :P) |
| 00:14:35 | filwit | ... |
| 00:14:41 | filwit | (you have been judged) |
| 00:14:44 | dom96 | lol |
| 00:14:47 | filwit | lol |
| 00:14:56 | dom96 | So what's your idea? |
| 00:15:05 | filwit | well, it's your logo |
| 00:15:18 | filwit | um, idk exactly how to explain it |
| 00:15:30 | filwit | let me do a couple of sketches and send them to you |
| 00:15:42 | dom96 | nah, a pink masculine unicorn won't fit the name anyway. And this style wouldn't work for a butterfly :P |
| 00:15:48 | dom96 | alright cool. |
| 00:16:38 | filwit | a pink masculine unicorn is the spiting image of "deep though"... all we'd need is a pot leaf behind it. |
| 00:16:50 | filwit | PERFECT LOGO |
| 00:16:55 | filwit | 100% |
| 00:16:57 | avarus_ | I've already seen the leaf |
| 00:17:01 | avarus_ | imagined it |
| 00:17:11 | filwit | ^ there see |
| 00:17:15 | filwit | it's already on peoples minds |
| 00:17:19 | filwit | and it's not even made yet |
| 00:17:21 | avarus_ | just make a red "x" |
| 00:17:30 | filwit | 3 red XXX's |
| 00:17:32 | avarus_ | ignore me :P |
| 00:17:39 | filwit | on the unicorn's forehead |
| 00:17:44 | filwit | EVEN BETTER LOGO |
| 00:18:04 | filwit | k, i'm done. will make sketches now |
| 00:18:13 | dom96 | yeah yeah. You can stop mocking me :P |
| 00:18:26 | filwit | :-P |
| 00:22:04 | avarus_ | I go to bed, good night |
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| 00:45:31 | dom96 | me too. |
| 00:45:33 | dom96 | Good night |
| 00:45:44 | filwit | ah, okay good night |
| 00:45:53 | filwit | i'll send it to you tomorrow |
| 00:46:29 | dom96 | alright, thanks. |
| 00:46:31 | dom96 | See you. |
| 00:46:36 | filwit | bye! |
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| 09:04:13 | avarus | hi |
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| 13:16:59 | avarus | oi |
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| 13:41:55 | exhu | hi |
| 13:42:01 | avarus | hi exhu |
| 13:42:17 | exhu | what's up avarus? |
| 13:42:32 | avarus | it's weekend :P |
| 13:43:31 | exhu | yes, the most productive time for open source projects -) |
| 13:43:43 | avarus | yes, or that :P |
| 13:45:05 | exhu | do you program in nimrod? |
| 13:45:25 | avarus | no |
| 13:45:27 | avarus | you? |
| 13:45:31 | exhu | yes |
| 13:46:12 | exhu | avarus, are you studying it as a candidate for c++ replacement? |
| 13:46:51 | avarus | no, I'm just someone who is interested in new programming languages |
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| 14:37:36 | exhu | ping NimBot |
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| 15:27:29 | exhu | who's XAMPP ? |
| 15:31:54 | XAMPP | I am me. |
| 15:34:32 | exhu | XAMPP, thought it's a bot |
| 15:34:58 | XAMPP | You would not be the first to think that im a bot |
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| 16:19:00 | dom96 | hello |
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| 16:50:19 | dom96 | hey filwit |
| 16:50:59 | filwit | hi dom |
| 16:51:07 | filwit | i came up with a logo i liked |
| 16:51:08 | filwit | one sec |
| 16:51:14 | dom96 | cool |
| 16:55:45 | filwit | give me a minute to touch it up real quick, then i'll send you and image |
| 16:55:59 | dom96 | alright. No need to hurry. |
| 16:56:29 | filwit | well, i have other things to do today |
| 16:56:35 | filwit | for work |
| 16:57:19 | dom96 | well, you don't have to send it to me now if you have more important things to do. |
| 16:58:39 | filwit | no it's fine |
| 16:59:15 | filwit | the logo's design is done, i just want to "sell it" real quick before sending you an image |
| 16:59:47 | filwit | also, don't feel like you have to like it or anything just cause i do |
| 17:00:08 | filwit | make sure you tell me your real thoughts about it :) |
| 17:00:23 | dom96 | heh, alright. |
| 17:00:24 | filwit | (it's not a pink unicorn) |
| 17:00:30 | dom96 | Awwww, |
| 17:00:34 | filwit | lol |
| 17:14:16 | * | gradha joined #nimrod |
| 17:15:33 | gradha | wow, this upgrade to mountain lion is amazing, haven't reach 2h of usage and I've already had two kernel panics during boot |
| 17:17:48 | gradha | suddenly I don't seem to have a compiler, oh xcode, where are you |
| 17:18:36 | filwit | dom96: http://reign-studios.com/nimrod/aporia-logo.png |
| 17:18:51 | filwit | dom96: what do you like, what do you want changed, etc. |
| 17:19:45 | filwit | dom96: also, if you hate it, just let me know and I can start over this week. |
| 17:20:12 | gradha | doesn't that stealth jet need like more missiles and explosions? |
| 17:20:29 | filwit | gradha: Mountain Lion doesn't do that on my Mac Mini |
| 17:20:36 | filwit | gradha: yes lol |
| 17:20:57 | filwit | gradha: it's suppose to be a pimping butterfly damnit! |
| 17:21:11 | gradha | I know, I know |
| 17:21:19 | filwit | :-P |
| 17:21:36 | dom96 | filwit: hrm, not bad. I don't really like that gradient though. And I think it does resemble a fighter too much :\ |
| 17:21:47 | dom96 | *fighter jet |
| 17:22:07 | filwit | hmm. okay. less Jagged edges maybe? |
| 17:22:23 | gradha | I'd say given the options we have a stealth jet is much cooler than a butterfly |
| 17:23:00 | dom96 | Maybe, also I think it should be a different colour. Grey black perhaps. |
| 17:23:08 | filwit | gradha: tell that to the guy who like pink unicorn logos |
| 17:23:26 | filwit | (never gonna let that one go dom95 :P) |
| 17:23:30 | gradha | maybe the aporia butterfly dreams at night with becoming a huge flying mecha robot screaming "KILL ALL HUMANS" |
| 17:23:47 | gradha | you can never be sure about butterflies |
| 17:23:49 | filwit | dom96: different color where? |
| 17:23:56 | filwit | dom96: the background you mean? |
| 17:23:58 | dom96 | The "butterfly" :P |
| 17:24:23 | filwit | dom96: hmm, okay. though a "grey black" will mean it needs a light background |
| 17:25:18 | filwit | you guys like electronic music? |
| 17:25:21 | filwit | listen to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCpmzP2UHjs&list=LLlgRDUA6vDcTlCQBscG7tVg |
| 17:25:22 | gradha | yay, got my commandline tools from apple... it just looks like a linux distro where I'm downloading everything from some repo |
| 17:25:24 | dom96 | Well please remember: I mostly care about the icon, not what background it's on. The icon will be in the task bar. |
| 17:25:40 | gradha | nice logo |
| 17:25:52 | gradha | oh, butterflies |
| 17:25:56 | gradha | it's a trap! |
| 17:25:58 | filwit | dom96: i see |
| 17:26:37 | filwit | that song i sent you is the "butterfly" theme song for this logo |
| 17:26:52 | filwit | every time aporia launches, you need to play that |
| 17:27:00 | gradha | yep, does it speed up or is it sleep inducing all the time? |
| 17:27:28 | filwit | it's epic gradha, shut your face |
| 17:27:48 | dom96 | filwit: That's actually precisely the kind of music I like :) |
| 17:28:08 | gradha | ok, ok, I can see it being epic while Mothra destroys the last of civilization in slow motion |
| 17:28:26 | filwit | Mothra, LOL! |
| 17:28:51 | filwit | dom96: good tastes ;) |
| 17:30:16 | gradha | yes, it's nice. Usually I prefer more frantic/mechanical sounds, heard anything from bethurum? |
| 17:30:31 | filwit | nope |
| 17:30:38 | dom96 | filwit: You like Massive Attack? |
| 17:30:44 | filwit | idk |
| 17:30:56 | filwit | i'm horrible with band/artist names |
| 17:31:04 | gradha | bethurum synesthesia http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ9RUeG-oHU |
| 17:31:17 | gradha | actually my sister is a doctor and didn't know of the condition of synesthesia |
| 17:31:39 | filwit | synesthesia? |
| 17:31:52 | gradha | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia |
| 17:31:59 | filwit | just googled it |
| 17:32:12 | gradha | I saw it first in some chick anyme, superpowers and stupid things like that |
| 17:32:44 | filwit | hmm, interesting |
| 17:32:53 | gradha | it seems underage synesthesia shooters are more precise (according to it) than expert snipers |
| 17:33:41 | gradha | the name suits the music |
| 17:33:47 | filwit | i would like to see actual studies on that |
| 17:33:58 | filwit | before i believe it |
| 17:34:03 | filwit | but it does sound interesting |
| 17:34:14 | gradha | come on, it was an anime, nothing is real |
| 17:34:17 | gradha | there is no spoon |
| 17:34:26 | filwit | OH |
| 17:34:35 | filwit | i thought you meant it was real, lol |
| 17:34:38 | filwit | about the snipers |
| 17:34:53 | filwit | and i was like... that doesn't sound right... |
| 17:34:56 | gradha | nah, it's just they use some obscure things people google up and say "oh, this must be true" |
| 17:35:10 | filwit | ah, i see |
| 17:35:30 | gradha | I've read about it previously though, some people use their synesthesia to remember better |
| 17:35:48 | gradha | for instance, names and sounds "taste" different, so people like a taste, and remember the things they associate with it (visual or auditive) |
| 17:38:41 | filwit | this is the only thing i listen to during work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxopViU98Xo |
| 17:40:01 | gradha | looks like the perfect video to put on your google glasses |
| 17:40:12 | filwit | hahaha |
| 17:42:01 | dom96 | Eurovision ftw! |
| 17:42:07 | filwit | i really like this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEIOf1COPHo |
| 17:42:13 | filwit | you might like it dom96 |
| 17:42:55 | dom96 | lol, I have a remix which is like exactly the same somewhere in my youtube favourites. |
| 17:43:10 | filwit | nice |
| 17:43:17 | dom96 | In fact, yep. It's the exact same song. |
| 17:43:33 | gradha | the. horror. |
| 17:43:40 | filwit | awesome |
| 17:43:48 | dom96 | Why oh why can't I search my favourites. |
| 17:44:01 | gradha | they are not yours, dom96, they are google's |
| 17:44:13 | gradha | you have to pretty please ask them |
| 17:44:27 | filwit | well, lets be honest here... we're all now google slaves |
| 17:44:39 | gradha | I'm more of an apple slave |
| 17:44:46 | filwit | it's a well know, and universally accepted fact |
| 17:45:11 | filwit | apple sux |
| 17:45:20 | filwit | :O |
| 17:45:32 | gradha | come on, I'm reaching the 3rd hour and it doesn't seem to kernel panic yet |
| 17:45:42 | gradha | it should have been 1 kernel panic /h |
| 17:46:05 | filwit | see... not even the bugs are consistent on mac |
| 17:46:07 | dom96 | No way, Apple can't reach such kernel panic efficiency. |
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| 17:46:17 | gradha | true |
| 17:47:15 | gradha | so I had this nimrod offtopic question noted down: is there any switch to restrict nimrod's gc to a maximum size limit as to simulate an environment with less ram? |
| 17:47:27 | gradha | I guess I should look it up in gc.html |
| 17:47:50 | gradha | nope, doesn't seem to be there |
| 17:48:14 | dom96 | I bet you could use some Linux thing to simulate such an environment. |
| 17:48:24 | gradha | most likely with ulimit |
| 17:48:36 | gradha | but I wanted to use that for nimrod sharing memory with the host language |
| 17:48:43 | gradha | with ulimit you limit the whole process |
| 17:49:04 | gradha | say, I want a total limit of 20MB and give 5MB to nimrod's gc |
| 17:49:29 | filwit | what are you trying to run Nimrod on that only has 20mb, a watch? |
| 17:49:51 | gradha | those numbers are just an example, but IIRC that's the memory you have for apps on ios |
| 17:50:04 | gradha | at least on the first models, I hear the latest one gives you nearly 40MB, gasp! |
| 17:50:17 | filwit | wait what really? |
| 17:50:21 | filwit | i didn't know that... |
| 17:50:31 | gradha | that memory doesn't include graphical resources, which are handled practically by the OS |
| 17:50:41 | filwit | ah, okay i see |
| 17:50:45 | filwit | that makes more sense |
| 17:51:06 | dom96 | Does android have such a limit too? |
| 17:51:23 | filwit | still, that sounds like a pretty limiting feature |
| 17:51:36 | filwit | i guess they don't want crappy programmers hogging the system |
| 17:51:42 | gradha | haven't looked at hard figures on android, but sounds about right |
| 17:51:56 | gradha | filwit: that's why they don't allow multitasking on iOS |
| 17:52:19 | gradha | people with initial android bitched about battery going off, later they said they had installed sshd and webservers, lol |
| 17:52:53 | filwit | LOL |
| 17:53:09 | gradha | but yes, on iOS 20MB is about the limit you target if you want to cover all devices, you can get higher if you are specific for more recent models |
| 17:53:45 | gradha | due to the nature of loading screens on demand you only have to care about this limit when you make picture galleries and stuff with heavy graphical resources |
| 17:53:53 | gradha | otherwise you don't even notice there is such few ram |
| 17:56:11 | Araq | hi guys |
| 17:56:21 | Araq | did I miss anything important? |
| 17:56:26 | filwit | no |
| 17:56:40 | gradha | you did, Aporia now even has a soundtrack |
| 17:56:50 | filwit | oh, yes, there's that |
| 17:56:57 | dom96 | Araq: How do I fix jester? |
| 17:57:10 | Araq | I threw in 2 .immediate pragmas |
| 17:57:33 | dom96 | Araq: Also, install.sh needs to be rebuilt so that lib/packages is installed. |
| 17:57:37 | dom96 | Araq: where? |
| 17:57:46 | Araq | dom96: argh .. true |
| 17:59:39 | Araq | jester.get |
| 18:00:53 | Araq | jester.post |
| 18:00:59 | Araq | and getRe I guess |
| 18:02:00 | dom96 | hrm, this seems to be a different problem. |
| 18:02:18 | dom96 | httpclient.request seems to interfere with a 'request' param. |
| 18:02:54 | exhu | soundtrack you missed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWFBqiUgspg |
| 18:03:45 | Araq | wtf ... 10 hours? |
| 18:04:10 | exhu | Araq, macosx edition -) |
| 18:04:43 | dom96 | Yes, the brilliant pelvis pump action coupled with the great saxophone sound will increase your coding productivity by 1000% |
| 18:05:23 | gradha | Araq: I have upgraded to mountain lion and it's the only music my computer plays between every kernel panic |
| 18:07:28 | filwit | lol, that song |
| 18:08:11 | Araq | gradha: does that mean you have a kernel panic every 10 hours? |
| 18:08:39 | gradha | no idea, haven't reached 2h yet |
| 18:09:02 | gradha | I'm on a lucky streack now with 1h and something |
| 18:09:18 | Araq | does nimrod still work? |
| 18:09:46 | gradha | that surprised me the most (after I redownloaded xcode's commandline tools because apparently they die in the process) |
| 18:10:15 | Araq | does it work with the default gcc now? |
| 18:10:40 | gradha | didn't try, the version of the compiler didn't change, but ok, I'll try |
| 18:13:12 | gradha | I think metal sounds sharper and with 132% more hate than with the previous OS version |
| 18:13:49 | gradha | apple's gcc frontend on mountain lion fails just like on lion |
| 18:16:14 | Araq | you should tell apple about it |
| 18:16:34 | Araq | I'm sure they care about their customers |
| 18:17:15 | gradha | they don't care about developers, can't imagine why would they care about users |
| 18:17:56 | Araq | they treat them with respect and don't pretend they're too dumb to distinguish between starting a new application or putting a running one into the foreground |
| 18:19:27 | filwit | ^ lol |
| 18:20:22 | gradha | the thing I most hate is how Apple puts themselves medals for their assistive technologies yet they don't improve the problems/annoyances they have |
| 18:22:06 | gradha | and the word we learn today thanks to metal music is: panophobia |
| 18:22:11 | Araq | I'm glad the windows 7 task bar is now as braindead as mac's |
| 18:22:36 | gradha | Araq: any way to limit nimrod's gc to a specific top limit? |
| 18:22:46 | gradha | I checked gc.html but there's no info about that there |
| 18:22:49 | reactormonk | gradha, find out |
| 18:24:08 | Araq | gradha: and then what? the process should die with OOM instead of using more memory? |
| 18:25:29 | gradha | can't memory allocation fail in nimrod? oh |
| 18:25:54 | Araq | it can fail but usually it quits the process |
| 18:26:07 | Araq | you can set the OOM hook to do something else instead |
| 18:26:28 | exhu | i think if memory is not enough, then there's either leak or fragmentation. but it also can be a wrong gc threshold. |
| 18:26:46 | gradha | what is an OOM hook? |
| 18:27:03 | gradha | out of memory, ah |
| 18:27:53 | gradha | I was thinking of what would it take for a process to embed nimrod and compile/run foreign scripts, which would need some sort of sandbox, and that would include maximum memory to avoid collapsing the host |
| 18:27:53 | exhu | BTW, how to avoid fragmentation with indeterministic GC? |
| 18:28:06 | gradha | if the OOM hook exits the process then that's not good for the host either |
| 18:29:21 | Araq | exhu: dunno ;-) I haven't looked yet at fragmentation problems |
| 18:30:13 | exhu | Araq, google gave me a lot of results to java, that it's been solved and one should not care :( |
| 18:30:34 | Araq | the advantages of a moving GC, yeah |
| 18:31:54 | Araq | but it's not that you're out of control with GC, Nimrod's can be made deterministic |
| 18:32:11 | Araq | we need some monitoring tool though |
| 18:33:30 | exhu | if finilizers are always called (unlike in java), one can track memory leaks, otherwise a tool is needed. |
| 18:35:07 | exhu | or a compiler/runtime support to dump a list of allocated objects with typenames |
| 18:35:55 | Araq | yeah the later is very easy to provide |
| 18:36:09 | Araq | except we have no typenames ;-) |
| 18:38:43 | Araq | exhu: much better than type names are stack traces; "which trace lead to this allocation?" is much better |
| 18:39:14 | Araq | it's expensive to monitor though |
| 18:41:09 | exhu | i remember some heap tracing support is in the gcc C library, which is controlled by env vars and valgrind. But i have not used it for so long that i don't remember the details. If nimrod uses standard c library, then it will probably work. |
| 18:41:26 | Araq | but it doesn't ;-) |
| 18:41:34 | Araq | it uses its own allocator |
| 18:41:59 | exhu | ups |
| 18:42:36 | exhu | *oops |
| 18:43:15 | Araq | I guess I've asked before, but: are you german? |
| 18:43:23 | exhu | no -) |
| 18:43:45 | exhu | wessrussland |
| 18:43:50 | exhu | weiss |
| 18:43:54 | Araq | ah ok |
| 18:45:23 | exhu | tracking leaks is an important feature which should be in todo |
| 18:45:32 | Araq | alright |
| 18:46:18 | exhu | at least for far later versions |
| 18:46:23 | exhu | of compiler |
| 18:46:43 | Araq | I already added it to my todo, ok? |
| 18:47:45 | exhu | great |
| 18:48:29 | Araq | how do you deal with fragmentation with a standard allocator anyway btw? |
| 18:48:36 | Araq | GC doesn't change anything here |
| 18:48:51 | Araq | if for instance 'dlmalloc' has problems with your allocation patterns |
| 18:49:16 | exhu | but i don't think leaks feature is a show-stopper, i remember finally looking through the whole product sources to track those and find some others :) |
| 18:50:37 | exhu | i think there should be a note that fragmentation problems are not tackled by current implementation (unlike it's advertised in java, that you don't worry about memory at all). |
| 18:51:25 | Araq | IMHO nimrod's {.watchpoint.} is a killer feature and much better than most commercial debuggers |
| 18:51:49 | Araq | if only --debugger:on would be faster ... :-/ |
| 18:52:21 | exhu | don't see {.watchpoint.} in the manual |
| 18:52:33 | Araq | the debugger has its own documentation |
| 18:54:14 | exhu | found it, thanks |
| 18:54:43 | * | gradha quit (Quit: bbl, have youtube videos to watch) |
| 18:56:19 | Araq | does anybody know which OSes gurantee alignment for 64K blocks btw? |
| 18:56:45 | Araq | the current allocator uses a block size of 4K (1 page) to be on the safe side |
| 18:56:58 | Araq | but 4K is way too small |
| 19:01:15 | exhu | iOS and macos use 4k pages, that states the developer manual |
| 19:01:26 | Araq | I know |
| 19:01:33 | Araq | linux and windows do so as well |
| 19:01:39 | Araq | it's some x86 thing mostly |
| 19:24:33 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod 7b3eef0 Araq [+0 ±6 -0]: lazy operand sem'checking (beware) |
| 19:24:48 | Araq | this may break lots of things ;-) |
| 19:24:57 | Araq | so no moaning please |
| 19:24:59 | Araq | bbl |
| 19:46:26 | exhu | by braking you mean won't compile? my code compiles. |
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| 21:10:08 | Araq | exhu: yeah but I broke actors.nim for instance |
| 21:16:54 | exhu | lucky i don't use fancy stuff yet -) |
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