<< 01-09-2020 >>
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00:00:16PMunchvoidpi, I'm heading to bed now, but if you have any questions tomorrow don't hesitate to ping me (I'm the one who wrote the article you linked).
00:00:45PMunchGood night everyone
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02:19:12shashlick@Zevv awesome article
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03:22:24testHi Guys
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03:23:21shashlickSup
03:23:33Guest16312I am struck creating a dynamic json by looping through the contents of a file
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03:24:53Guest16312I want to append to an existing json variable in nim. Any help ?
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03:28:40FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> What's the file and what're you doing?
03:31:35FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> If i understand what you're trying to do this might explain how https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2vQ6
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04:01:05FromDiscord<flywind> How can I create a unique id for files in Nim? It seems file IDs(GetFileInformationByHandle) is file system-specific. I plan to use the creation time of file plus something else. But i'm not sure what to use.
04:02:28FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> Could you not just use the checksum of the file as an id?
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04:03:24FromDiscord<flywind> I want to monitor the file system. I think checksum maybe a bit slow.
04:04:39FromDiscord<flywind> each time, I modify the content of file I need to regenerate and save the checksum.
04:05:01FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> are they all in the same directory?
04:05:27FromDiscord<flywind> yes.
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04:06:23FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> cant you just use ints then? Load all the directories file names into a intset, then just find the next valid integer to name the next file?
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04:07:10FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> *I dont know the exact requirements here so im just spitballing* 😄
04:07:50FromDiscord<flywind> I mean monitoring a file, if rename event happens, I need to know that.
04:08:24FromDiscord<flywind> I need unique id to identify it.
04:09:20FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> Cant you just use the file name then, it's garuenteed to be unique, and if something is renamed it's moved out of the table, and readded as the new file name?
04:10:48FromDiscord<flywind> I want to do something like this but use polling mode as back method.
04:10:49FromDiscord<flywind> https://github.com/Vindaar/fsmonitor2
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04:12:40FromDiscord<flywind> Thanks, I think I should use `creationTime` xor `GetFileAttributes` instead.
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07:28:06FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> can nim reasonably be used as the main scripting language for Godot?
07:28:24FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> with roughly C# or slightly worse levels of support, official or not
07:28:33FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> (edit) 'support, official or not' => 'usability'
07:28:46FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> I know its very good for GDNative, but as a main language?
07:28:55FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> If anybody has tried it please let me know
07:29:03FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> There is the nim bindings for it, but i havent used it, iirc the creators of it are using it for their own project, so probably
07:29:15FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> Oh that's very good
07:29:23FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> but those are for GDNative no?
07:29:33FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> Well yea
07:29:54FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> I don't use GDN much, but I don't remember it being the most pleasant thing in the world
07:30:05FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> I mean you're writting nimcode though
07:30:25FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> Right
07:30:55FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> but I think for gamedev specifially since rapid iteration is how we do literally everything
07:31:00FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> more pain stacks up a lot
07:31:11FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> Yea i've never touched it, so no clue how it is
07:31:21FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> I've barely touched godot nevermind the nim bindings
07:31:42FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> Godot is really solid, if you're interested in making a game and don't need like hyperrealistic 3d godot is a solid choice
07:32:56FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> How are godots web build times?
07:34:39FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> pretty solid
07:34:49FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> on my computer pretty much instant for small games
07:35:11FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> Unity's take like 10 minutes for webgl build and it's horrific, as they do C# -> CPP -> WASM
07:35:13Oddmongeri've loades godot-nim, and the setup works, but i didn't understood the workflow yet
07:35:15FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> wow
07:35:26FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> oh I see is docs lacking?
07:35:34FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> Pins my cpu at 90% on top of it
07:35:38FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> Godot is meant to be super lightweight, everything is fast and there's minimal bloat
07:35:42FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> yeah
07:35:49FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> exports are near instant for me usually
07:36:12FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> on my garbage laptop from 2013 ish it took maybe a minute to export the game i was working on to html5
07:36:18Oddmongerthe advanage of godot/nim instead godot/c# is IMHO you don't have to use experimental godot C# version
07:36:31FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> but iirc you have to revert to 3.0
07:36:36FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> meaning no sprite batching and such
07:36:39Oddmongerand the final package won't embed the mono libs
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07:37:06FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> Well also web builds should be even quicker as they should be able to do straight to wasm
07:37:21FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> Instead of using il2cpp
07:37:43FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> Or equivlent rather
07:45:48Oddmongerdoes nim cfg files are using the same syntax as compiler arguments listed here (https://nim-lang.org/docs/nimc.html) ?
07:46:46Oddmongerjust remove the "--" prefix and add "" for surrounding argument, and thats all ?
07:48:11PMunchShould be pretty much it yeah
07:48:18PMunchYou can even keep the "--" prefix IIRc
07:48:25PMunchIt's been defined as a template
07:51:34Oddmongerok thank you
07:52:24Oddmongerdoes it worth to learn nake, too ? I've read somewhere it had been superseded by nimble
07:52:31FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> Hello pmunch
07:52:38Oddmongerit's not even mentionned in «nim in action»
07:53:17FromDiscord<lqdev> Oddmonger: use nimble
07:53:36FromDiscord<lqdev> nimble tasks can do everything nake could
07:53:55Oddmongerok, noted
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07:55:38PMunchHi @Elegant :)
07:56:00FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> Did you see my issues in gamedev?
07:57:26PMunchUhm, no
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07:57:51PMunchHmm, is that channel logged anywhere?
07:58:16FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> not a clue remember im a discord user 😛
07:58:50FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> Here this will explain it all https://streamable.com/ysp3zi
07:59:38FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> Enters endless state
07:59:43PMunchHmm, well that's broken :P
08:00:16PMunchWhat browser are you using?
08:00:20FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> Chrome
08:00:21PMunchWorks fine for me in Firefox
08:00:52PMunchLet me try in Chrome
08:01:29PMunchHmm, it is in fact broken in Chrome
08:01:36FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> Firefox doesnt even load past the FM screen for me
08:02:44PMunchOh really?
08:03:14PMunchWhich FF version?
08:04:15FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> 80
08:04:59PMunchHmm, I'm on 79.0 on Linux and that works fine
08:05:26PMunchLet me upgrade to 80 and check
08:05:56FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> "on linux" wow did you just imply i'm not! 😛
08:08:13FromDiscord<Rika> you are??
08:08:26FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> Yes
08:11:30PMunchJust in case you weren't :P
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08:18:30PMunchHmm, still works in FF 80 for me
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08:40:47FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> @PMunch[IRC]#0000 might be abtagbyou forgot to close or something
08:40:56FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> Firefox is way more generous with that sort of thing
08:41:04FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> Also their dev console is a lot better
08:41:36FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> I wish their screen sharing worked on my system, that and the stupid icon that comes when you're In a call are deal breakers for me
08:42:00FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> In general if it works on ie it works on everything
08:42:12FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> (edit) 'abtagbyou' => 'a tag you'
08:43:03PMunchWell it's not a HTML game
08:43:11PMunchIt's an Arduboy game that runs in a web based emulator
08:43:22PMunchSo I don't have any tags to close :P
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08:53:58Araqhttps://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/15198 static linking of SSL requested here
08:54:00disbot➥ Error: SMTP module compiled without SSL support ; snippet at 12https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2vR1
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09:09:33bungAraq should I need add test case for SQL escape PR ?
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09:13:11Araqyes but a small unit test suffices
09:15:53bungfound no existed mysql test, it would be the first one ?
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09:29:11Araqyeah
09:30:09bungokay
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09:31:21PMunchHmm, where is the set type magic implemented?
09:36:14PMunchGuessing compiler/bitsets.nim -_-
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09:42:39PMunchWhat was the command to koch to build a test build instead of running the whole bootstrapping procedure?
09:42:50PMunchOh, ./koch temp
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10:09:16FromDiscord<mratsim> I think compiler/bitsets are for bitsets in the VM, because bitsets at runtime sure don't use seq
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10:22:57Araqmratsim: are you familiar with Numenta's work?
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11:35:48Zevvdisruptek: yeah, I know I am, but $5.00 for a coffee, that is pretty insane don't you agree
11:47:47kinkinkijkinwhat's this about $5 coffee
11:49:27ZevvI don't know, but it better be good
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12:07:02PMunchZevv, $5 for a coffee is pretty typical here
12:07:14PMunchFor just normal coffee from a pot
12:07:37PMunch@mratsim, aah, that makes sense
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12:07:50Zevvreally? man
12:10:24PMunchWell $5 would be a bit on the expensive end. But wouldn't be surprised to find coffee in the $3-$4 range even at something like a student house
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12:23:01Zevvwell, not surprising, given the national funds all you guys have on the bank :)
12:33:03ForumUpdaterBotNew thread by ElAfalw: How to achieve better performance with arc GC?, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/6754
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12:40:33PMunchZevv, well those aren't really meant to be spent on coffee :P
12:40:40PMunchAt least not until it's an emergency
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12:44:51PMunchName these ones: ▀ ▄
12:45:37FromDiscord<lqdev> it's half block upper/lower or something like that
12:46:26Zevvjust lookem up in the unicode table lazy man
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12:46:57Zevvhttps://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+2580
12:47:27PMunchHaha, posted in the wrong channel :P
12:48:18Zevvand still you get your answer
12:49:17PMunchI'm tired, I wasn't actually asking for the name :P I meant to type "Namely these ones: ▀ ▄" as I was suggesting using them to create a terminal snake game with sub-character resolution
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12:50:46Zevvuse the teletekst chacter set, they give you a 2*8 grid
12:51:44Araqhttps://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/15254 using exceptoins to make Nim's VM run incrementally
12:51:45disbot➥ Basic VM resume support
12:52:05Zevvthat is pretty handy
12:52:38Araqstill making up my mind about it. The feature itself is excellent maybe there is no need to raise an exception though to leave a single loop
12:53:12PMunchHmm, would that allow embedded NimScript to not crash the entire program in case you have a bug?
12:53:40Araqthat's unrelated and already possible
12:54:03Araqat least that's how I remember it
12:54:06PMunchIt is?
12:54:14PMunchI couldn't figure out how to do it..
12:54:32ZevvAraq: what about "resume for X instructions and then return?"
12:54:33Araqdepends on what you mean I guess
12:55:00AraqVM bugs usually cause exceptions you can handle via 'try'
12:56:41PMunchUgh, still can't find where sets are implemented..
12:56:51PMunchBeen too long since I messed with the compiler
12:57:02Araqmostly in compiler/ccgexprs.nim
12:57:38Araqthey are mapped to C ints and array of ints depending on the set's base type
12:58:14Araqthis part of the compiler is so old that it predates most of the "compilerproc" technology
12:58:19PMunchI just ran into an issue on AVR where it wouldn't store values over 16..
12:58:25PMunchOr from 16 and up
12:58:48Araqpossible, that code never was written for AVR
12:58:55PMunch`myset.incl 17; if myset.contains 17` that if is false on AVR
12:59:04Zevvno way
12:59:25PMunchYup..
12:59:40PMunchTook a while to figure out what was going wrong with that one
13:00:37Araqproc genSetOp
13:01:03Araqthe logic seems ok but maybe 'getSize' lies for 'int' that we mapped to int16
13:01:14PMunchOh joy, this'll be fun to debug..
13:01:39disruptekyeah, it's only 4 bits on AVR.
13:01:45Araqnot really, read the C code and see if your changes make it produce correct C code
13:01:55Araqno crosscompiling etc required
13:02:13AraqI mean none required beyond --compileOnly --cpu:avr
13:02:20disruptekcoffee is $5 for credit-card fees reasons, iiuc.
13:02:23PMunchSize says 4
13:02:34PMunchSo yeah, that's not right
13:03:20Araq(name: "avr", intSize: 16, endian: littleEndian, floatSize: 32, bit: 16)
13:03:30Araqseems correct. Funny bug.
13:03:46Zevvso much more would be broken if that was off
13:04:14disruptekyes, but focus on turning 16 into 4...
13:04:30Araqah we need to watch out, the set's size is not the basetype's size
13:04:42disruptekor whatever it was.. 3?
13:04:46Araqand for 17 we need a uint32 so size is 4
13:05:04Araqthe 17th bit only exists when size is > 2
13:05:27Araqbbl
13:05:38PMunchThat's true
13:06:53disruptekoh yeah, 17 bear foods.
13:06:55disrupteklol
13:07:12disruptekup here we call those campers.
13:11:37PMunch<_<
13:12:31PrestigeI need to play that game today
13:13:19PMunchHmm --cpu:avr doesn't change the generated code at all apart from setting NIM_INTBITS from 64 to 16
13:13:28PMunchPrestige, my game?
13:13:39PrestigeYeah
13:13:55PMunchUnfortunately it plays best on an actual Arduboy or similar hardware :(
13:14:03PMunchYou don't get the neat colours and stuff without it
13:14:17PrestigeAh even on desktop? Oh well
13:14:26PMunchWell, in the desktop emulator it plays fine
13:14:34PMunchBut you still don't get the grayscale colours
13:14:46PMunchStill enjoyable though :)
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13:26:19Zevvyou PWM your greyscale or what?
13:27:38PMunchYup
13:27:49PMunchEach frame is divided into three subframes
13:28:17PMunchOn the first subframe I draw white stuff, then light gray stuff, then dark gray stuff, then I clear the screen buffer and go to the next frame
13:29:02PMunchOnly problem with this approach is that I can't have dark gray stuff behind brighter elements without drawing everything in each subframe
13:36:19disruptekthat's the only problem?
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13:37:14Zevvthen you're doing it wrong
13:37:36PMunchWhat do you mean?
13:38:09Zevvwhy should'nt you be able to draw every pixel in an arbritary shade?
13:38:52Zevvoh you probably don't have a video RAM buffer, right?
13:38:59Zevvyou render everything straight to your display
13:39:30PMunchWell there is a buffer
13:39:46PMunchSo you can create buffers for the various shades and just switch between them
13:39:50Zevv2 bits per pixel
13:39:54PMunchBut my approach is faster
13:40:04PMunchAlthough every sprite can only be a single colour
13:40:50PMunchMostly because I just wanted to do it quick and easy, and not have to bother about rewriting the actual sprite drawing logic..
13:41:21Zevvyou can have it quick, easy and good, but not all at the same time. Pick 2 out of three
13:41:49PMunchI think I picked easy twice :P
13:42:08FromDiscord<Kiloneie> I've heard plenty of times that Nim has a VM, is there any details about it, what does it do? Idiot question perhaps D:
13:42:34disruptekit's a myth.
13:43:31PMunch@Kiloneie, the VM is what runs macros and other compile-time stuff
13:43:45PMunchThere are plenty of details about it, but that's the gist
13:44:14FromDiscord<Kiloneie> Ah okay, part of the compiler then
13:44:18PMunchYup
13:44:31PMunchWell, you can import it and use it in your program to embed NimScript in it
13:44:48shashlickshould a `--silent` flag for Nimble hide Nim compiler warnings as well?
13:45:18disruptekquiet, maybe, but silent should produce zero output.
13:46:01FromDiscord<Kiloneie> Import nimscript?
13:47:24FromDiscord<Kiloneie> I should learn nimscript for some automation
13:48:13PMunchYou don't really need it
13:48:28PMunchWell, you probably already know it :P It's just a subset of Nim
13:48:39PMunchWell, it's mostly a subset of Nim
13:50:32PMunchHmm, from the generated C code I can't really see what's going wrong with this..
13:51:10Zevvstill hunting the set?
13:53:17PMunchYup
13:53:48PMunchhttp://ix.io/2vSv/C
13:54:09PMunchThat set type is NU32
13:54:11Zevvyeah I got the same code
13:54:46ZevvMy set type is NU8[32]
13:54:47disruptekof course; that's wrong.
13:55:07Zevvwhat is your exact set definition PMunch ?
13:55:12Zevvthe nim-side?
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14:05:55PMunchvar taken: set[0..20]
14:06:16PMunchOh well, I've got to go
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14:12:51disruptekare you using mangling?
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14:53:49Sgeohttps://nim-lang.org/docs/tables.html I don't see the difference between the first and second example (that's supposed to illustrate the difference between Table and TableRef. How does Nim know that a is supposed to be a TableRef, or is there a missing type annotation?
14:55:41FromDiscord<exelotl> toTable returns a Table, newTable returns a TableRef
14:56:51FromDiscord<exelotl> The type of a is inferred from the type of the expression on the right hand side
14:57:25SgeoOh ok, sorry I didn't see that
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15:59:49FromDiscord<dom96> Does anyone else agree? if so, upvote to change the design https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/15251#discussion_r480401706 😄
15:59:50disbot➥ new-style concepts implemetion, WIP
16:02:51FromDiscord<k1tt3hk4t> what exactly does it change?
16:03:38FromDiscord<Rika> removes `self` and use concept name instead
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16:47:12YardanicoPMunch left, but yes, I'm still alive, though I didn't have much time to do Nim things recentlyt :0
16:47:14Yardanicorecently :)
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16:56:36FromGitter<matrixbot> `BarrOff` Hello, I have been trying to register for the forum, but I just don't get a confirmation mail. Tried three different mail accounts by now, none of them received one
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17:00:48FromDiscord<dom96> just tell me your nick and I'll activate it for you
17:04:49FromGitter<matrixbot> `BarrOff` BarrOff25
17:05:29FromDiscord<dom96> yeah, your email is exotic enough to make me think that your email provider is blocking the forum's emails :/
17:05:31FromDiscord<dom96> anyway, activated
17:06:09Yardanicousually the best email provider (deliverability-wise) is gmail because their limits of what emails (from what mail servers) are accepted are very low
17:06:15Yardanicothey instead rely on their very advanced spam detection
17:06:32Yardanicowell, idk if it's very advanced, but it's pretty good at leaast
17:06:40FromDiscord<haxscramper> I'm still getting "Too many messages have been sent to this email address recently." when trying to register via any of my emails, could you fix this one too?
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17:08:59FromDiscord<dom96> haxscramper: The forum is open source, would appreciate your help here 🙂
17:09:25*abm quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
17:11:13FromDiscord<haxscramper> I mean is there any way to fix this or I just have to use completely different email? I'd prefer to stick to my `haxscramper@` mail on the forum too, but if it can't be fixed I will of course use different one.
17:11:22FromDiscord<dk> What's the best supported async sqlite nim lib?
17:11:26FromDiscord<dk> std seems to be sync
17:11:50FromDiscord<dom96> @haxscramper just tell me your nick and I can activate your account
17:12:26FromDiscord<dom96> > What's the best supported async sqlite nim lib?↵@dk I just use the sync libs, you're unlikely to run into trouble since its in-memory
17:13:45FromDiscord<haxscramper> `@haxscramper` - but I actually deleted it a while back - I tried to change to different email but wasn't able to, so I decided to just recreate account but got stuck on sign up stage
17:14:00FromDiscord<dom96> Bah.
17:14:18FromDiscord<dom96> Yeah, that needs to be fixed. I can't easily get your account back if you delete it.
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17:15:19ForumUpdaterBotNew thread by BarrOff25: Access Nim variables from Lua, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/6755
17:17:41FromDiscord<haxscramper> Okay, I will wait for the fix then - my horrible web(anything)-related skills are certainly not up to the task of fixing something like this :(
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17:25:19ForumUpdaterBotNew thread by Deech: Pros vs. Cons Of Nim In The Large?, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/6756
17:25:53Yardanicomaybe my ForumUpdater made the forum more active after all :P (but surely it wasn't the only factor)
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17:29:49FromDiscord<dom96> maybe, or maybe it's the new Forum update that did it? 😛
17:30:04Yardanicothat's why I said it wasn't the only factor ;)
17:30:31Yardanicoalso since the bot also posts "new threads" messages in the Telegram group, some people probably came from there
17:30:56shashlicki've noticed that preview doesn't work as well as before - text box gets resized
17:32:50alehander92it might be china
17:32:55Yardanicolol?
17:33:00alehander92they had a nim community
17:33:06alehander92they have all kinds of stuff man
17:33:16alehander92i would be careful with china
17:33:19Yardanicowell they don't post on the nim forum usually :)
17:35:23FromDiscord<haxscramper> How difficult would it be to implement reddit integration too? Forum updater just repeatedly scans forum for new posts and sends link here if new post is found, correct?
17:35:48Yardanicoshouldn't be too hard, but idk if it would be welcomed :)
17:36:56FromDiscord<dom96> ooh yeah plz
17:37:01FromDiscord<dom96> I keep missing reddit posts
17:37:08Yardanicoahh
17:37:15Yardanicoyou mean from nim subreddit to irc/tg
17:37:16Yardanicohmm
17:37:26YardanicoI mean it's not hard, but might get spammy, no?
17:37:39Yardanicoat this point we might as well add the same for stackoverflow nim and nim-lang tags :)
17:38:09alehander92yeah people wanted to stop even the forum updater
17:38:09FromDiscord<haxscramper> I just quick-checked - about half o the new posts actually have some kind of new content (not how-to-do-X questions) and there not so many of them per day, about as much as on nim forum, maybe even less.
17:41:13FromDiscord<dom96> This one is for Status peeps: https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/6756 CC @mratsim
17:42:13FromGitter<jorjun_twitter> vscode experience with Nim - no syntax checking until save, and I can’t find a way to step thru source/debug .. is there a way? Do you native types just echo everything?
17:42:28Yardanicono checking until save sounds really weird
17:42:34Yardanicoah ok that's right I think
17:42:59FromDiscord<lakmatiol> actually, is there some editor with better support than VSC?
17:43:07FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> not really
17:43:47alehander92it should be possible to debug
17:43:57alehander92if one sets up using nim-gdb.py in the config
17:44:04alehander92of the debug tool
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17:45:00FromGitter<jorjun_twitter> wingIDE for python is so damn good - debug console, hover-over variables in editor source to see current values.. was going to try this gdb python script, but on mac it is lldb ..
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17:46:01FromGitter<jorjun_twitter> I need to go back to code kindergarten and find out how native coders get things done..
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17:47:47FromGitter<jorjun_twitter> would be great to have a nim native IDE.. saw that one initative was stopped due to rising vscode star.. understandable.. but it really can’t do everything.. success is supposed to consist of the ‘management of the non-obvious’ I think excellent debugging and IDE are non-obvious..
17:48:27FromGitter<jorjun_twitter> Not giving up anyway.,.
17:51:06FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> there were 2 attempts iirc, both stopped, there is now an intellij plugin being developed, but its at a really early stage
17:51:55Zevvneovim support is pretty great IMHO
17:52:07ZevvInstant highlighting, symbol lookup, error reporting
17:52:09FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> but its not an ide
17:52:17FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> as such
17:52:18Zevvlet's not go there
17:52:39FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> yeah, good idea :p
17:53:54FromDiscord<lakmatiol> I might try that
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18:01:53FromDiscord<haxscramper> QtCreator plugin also worked flawlessly in terms of auto-completion (last time I checked). Can't say for debugging though, since I mostly do `echo` everywhere
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18:11:52FromDiscord<haxscramper> I just checked again - it is even better than last time. Integration with nimble (project creation wizard), qtcreator debugging interface works out of the box, nimsuggest, nimformat, syntax highlighting etc.
18:13:09FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> qt creator is a bit ugly
18:13:26FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> and i didnt check debugging, but thats nice
18:14:05FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> the plugin is actively developed, you can see github comiits are rather common
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18:19:52disrupteknew resume: https://github.com/disruptek
18:20:10disruptekyeah, tell your friends.
18:20:19disrupteknay, tell your enemies.
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18:21:45disruptekif only we had computer science.
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18:25:51FromDiscord<k1tt3hk4t> What's the correct way to have a macro fail? Can I just tell it to throw an exception and that will be considered a compile error?
18:25:57Yardanicoyes
18:26:02FromDiscord<k1tt3hk4t> sweet
18:26:04disruptekerror "some goats were discovered here"
18:26:05Yardanicohttps://nim-lang.org/docs/macros.html#error%2Cstring%2CNimNode
18:26:33FromDiscord<k1tt3hk4t> aaa ok
18:26:35FromDiscord<k1tt3hk4t> useful, ty
18:26:56disruptekalehander92: hey i have a project for you.
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18:35:00gmaggiorI have just installed inim with $ sudo nimble install inim, but typing inim is "command not found"
18:35:38Yardanicoyou need to have ~/.nimble/bin in your PATH
18:35:48Yardanicoalso pls
18:35:53Yardaniconever use sudo
18:35:56Yardanicoit installed inim in /root probably
18:36:03Yardanicojust use "nimble install inim", nimble never requires root by itself
18:36:18FromDiscord<haxscramper> @dom96 I'm terribly sorry for so many troubles over simple forum re-registration -now I created different account name `@haxscramper_`, but didn't get confirmation email. Could you please activate my account?
18:36:45gmaggiorYardanico, thanks!
18:37:06Yardaniconp
18:37:16FromDiscord<dom96> @haxscramper done
18:37:44FromDiscord<haxscramper> Thank you!
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19:02:21FromDiscord<Rebel> Are there any articles that talk about the performance of Nim macros and their overhead compared to functions?
19:02:32disruptekmacros don't have any overhead.
19:02:53disruptekmacros don't have any /runtime/ overhead.
19:03:00Yardanico@Rebel macros run on compile-time
19:03:27Yardanicothey generate code (AST) from some other input, or from no input at all
19:05:21FromDiscord<Rebel> ok thanks for the quick replies trying to figure out some possible use cases for them without abusing them
19:06:01disruptekthey are basically designed for abuse in the same way scissors are designed for cutting.
19:07:54FromDiscord<Rebel> haha you're not wrong at least it's hopefully harder to shoot yourself in the foot compared to using macros in C
19:08:26disruptekC macros are closer to nim templates, though that will prompt three people to wake up and argue with me.
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19:10:33FromDiscord<Rebel> Only one way to find out 🙂
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19:10:48disruptekdon't stick your dick in that.
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19:11:15Yardanicodisruptek: I generally agree with that
19:11:22Yardanicoabout nim templates ~= c macros
19:11:28Yardanicofor the simplest use cases
19:11:35disruptekthey are at the same level of abstraction.
19:11:37Yardanicoof course you also have bind/mixin/inject/gensym/etc
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19:21:23FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> Weird error while I was trying to do macros
19:21:24FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2vTY
19:21:38FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2vTZ
19:21:44Yardanicothat's not how you use quote do :)
19:21:45FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> `Error: '[]' can only be used in compile-time context`
19:21:56FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> that explains, what am I doing wrong?
19:22:01FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> A lot of stuff wasn't working
19:22:31FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> I went mostly off the nim tutorial part 3 because there aren't a whole lot of introductory resources for this kind o fthing
19:22:39FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> but what should i bo doing in quote do instead?
19:23:06Yardanicowait a bit
19:23:15FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> np
19:27:01FromGitter<alehander92> disruptek
19:27:05FromGitter<alehander92> what is the project
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19:27:45Yardanico@iWonder https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2vU0
19:27:59Yardanicojust FYI there's https://nim-lang.org/docs/htmlgen.html
19:28:15Yardanicoalso it's duplicated quite a lot :)
19:28:43FromGitter<alehander92> disruptek this is an interesting piece of .. literature
19:28:59FromGitter<alehander92> if you're trying to get a job in movie scripts
19:29:20Yardanicoyou can also do a bit better
19:30:47Yardanicoand just return a string from the macro
19:30:51Yardanicobut it depends on you of course
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19:38:20disruptekwut
19:38:58FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> I know there's already an html DSL, i just wanted to learn how macros work
19:39:08Yardanicowell that's a very simple case :)
19:39:17FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> agred
19:39:29FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> oh you need backticks?
19:39:41FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> and no accessing indices of the AST?
19:40:19Yardanicono
19:40:35FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> while in the quote do block i mean
19:40:36YardanicoI'd suggest you to understand Nim macros a bit better and then try https://github.com/PMunch/macroutils :)
19:40:38Yardanicoyes I know
19:40:53FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> will look into that
19:41:08FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> I couldn't find very many good tutorials or such
19:41:40FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> I don't think you're supposed manuall call newLit and such functions a ton of times right, it's recommended to use quote do?
19:42:05Yardaniconot always
19:42:17Yardanicoyou don't need to *only* use quote do
19:42:19Yardanicoyou can mix everything freely
19:42:26FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> oh interesting
19:42:38FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> that seems like a "find out what works best for you by trying" sort of thing though
19:42:47Yardanicofor some specific use-case - yes
19:43:43FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> Thanks for the help!
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20:06:05ForumUpdaterBotNew thread by BarrOff25: Formatted math in documentation?, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/6757
20:10:04FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> that is a very useful bot
20:10:09FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> big fan of this bot
20:10:14FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> Nim server has all the coolest bots
20:11:11FromDiscord<mbenam> Hello all. First post here...can anyone please tell me what the "*" after proc name stands for. I moved some procs to a different source file. Those procs cannot be called without the "*".
20:11:17FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> Lol yardanico scrolling through reddit, see this vscode visualizer then the nim honey badger 😄
20:11:22disruptekit means, `export this proc`.
20:11:30Yardanico@elegant hehe :)
20:11:44FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> anything marked with the asterix, is accessible from files that import it
20:11:56FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> It's nim's "access modifier"
20:12:52FromDiscord<mbenam> Got it. So, we can still call it from the current source file where the proc resides?
20:13:09FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> yea aslong as you call it after it's declared
20:13:35FromDiscord<mbenam> Great!! thanks for the quick help
20:13:48FromDiscord<mbenam> I am finding Nim to be very interesting
20:14:00FromDiscord<mbenam> But it's hard to find things online
20:14:32FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> Have you looked at the tutorial?
20:14:38FromDiscord<mbenam> And I fill there are tons of awesome tricks that are not available in the regular docs
20:15:02FromDiscord<mbenam> I did look at some. But not all of it
20:15:13FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> It's the downside of having very few people use it, and also sharing name with a game that a ton of people implement in code 😄
20:15:18FromDiscord<mbenam> Have been doodling with it for the last 3-4 days
20:16:16FromDiscord<mbenam> Anyway, coming from python, the speed of execution is just mindblowing.
20:16:31disruptekyeah, that's the thing.
20:16:47disrupteki found i couldn't write what i wanted to in python because it was just too fucking slow.
20:16:57disrupteknim gives you a lot of headroom.
20:17:20FromDiscord<mbenam> yes it does.
20:17:40FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> The metaprogramming is really where i find the most cool stuff coming from C#
20:17:48FromDiscord<mbenam> Are you guys thinking of porting it to microcontrollers?
20:17:56Yardaniconim already runs on them
20:17:59FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> nim compiles to C so it runs there
20:18:16FromDiscord<mbenam> Oh! I did not know.
20:18:33FromDiscord<mbenam> Any pointers where I can find more information?
20:18:34FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> Nim can pretty much run anywhere that you can think of
20:18:49FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> For arduino you can check here↵https://github.com/zevv/nim-arduino
20:18:56FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> No clue for other MCs
20:19:05Yardanicohttps://forum.nim-lang.org/t/4009
20:19:09Yardanicothis https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/6753#41959 has a few links at the start
20:19:16leorize[m]query PMunch if he's online, he recently wrote a game for the arduboy
20:19:21Yardanicohe isn't
20:19:23disruptekmake an embedded footnote, please.
20:19:23Yardanicoonline
20:19:30Yardanicohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCCrkZI0rVU
20:19:44Yardanicohttps://forum.nim-lang.org/t/5509
20:19:45Yardanicoetc
20:20:13FromDiscord<mbenam> That's really cool. I am a fan of esp8266
20:20:54FromDiscord<mbenam> BTW, I registered for the forum this morning. Still waiting on verification email. Checked spam.
20:21:08disruptekdom96: ^
20:21:46FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> Does the forum have an auto-logout period or is my browser just daft?
20:22:16leorize[m]forum registration seems to be broken for a lot of people
20:22:45Yardanicowell
20:23:23disruptekt'was always thus, and always thus t'will it be.
20:23:55Yardanicobecause we don't use some other mail service to send emails :)
20:23:58Yardanicowe have our own mail serverr
20:24:05Yardanicowell, not written in nim, but self-hosted I mean
20:24:22disruptekwhat the hell does that mean?
20:24:41Yardanicowe don't use some managed service to send registration emails
20:24:45Yardanicowe have a mail server
20:24:53disruptekwhat the fuck does that have to do with anything?
20:25:09FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> I don't remember there being a registration email for the forum
20:25:15FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> It worked very easily for me
20:25:23FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> the one time i posted went smoothly and i got a very good answer
20:25:24FromDiscord<Rika> its probably the cause of the registration email issues>
20:25:26FromDiscord<Rika> (edit) 'issues>' => 'issues?'
20:25:44Yardanicodisruptek: not all mail services accept emails from small self-hosted mail services
20:25:46disruptekthe cause is laziness.
20:25:56disruptekYardanico: that's ridiculous.
20:25:59Yardanicobut it's true :(
20:26:05disruptekeveryone accepts my mail.
20:26:12Yardanicodeliverability with custom mail servers isn't great
20:26:21disruptekyou don't know what you're talking about.
20:27:27Yardanicoi do
20:27:35disrupteki don't think so.
20:28:02Yardanico"Email deliverability" is a thing
20:28:15disruptekokay, buddy.
20:28:16Yardanicogmail is one of the most accepting mail services
20:28:23disruptekjust, y'know, stop talking.
20:28:29Yardanicoit doesn't even care if your mail server sends unencrypted emails or stuff
20:28:39Yardanicodisruptek: well if you know so much about them, please share your knowledge :)
20:30:12disrupteki already did.
20:30:28disrupteki was running email for ISPs since before you were born.
20:30:47disruptek"mail deliverability" may be a thing, but if a server isn't passing mail, it's simply misconfigured.
20:31:00Yardanicononono
20:31:08Yardaniconim mail server sends these
20:31:10disrupteki'm not going to debate it with you.
20:31:12Yardanicobut the mail servers don't accept it
20:31:13Yardanicoyeah sure
20:33:29FromDiscord<haxscramper> Is it possible to catch custom exception via `except Ex` *and* then get exception itself in nimscript? `getCurrentException()` is gives an `undeclared identifier` by catching only derived exception works
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20:35:41disruptekleorize[m]: is there a way for me to inspect/tweak how your ci checks out a repo for testing?
20:36:08FromGitter<alehander92> disruptke
20:36:10disrupteki'm not finding .gitconfig or references i need to check libgit2.
20:36:13FromGitter<alehander92> what is th project
20:36:29disrupteki need something that can add syntax highlighting to /any/ syntax.
20:37:04disruptekit should be able to classify matched symbols like {} [] or " `` or ''.
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20:37:24disrupteki can write this in npeg or something but i thought it might be more up your alley.
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20:38:27FromGitter<alehander92> hmm
20:38:28disruptekalternatively, i could just pass nim ast to this animal and get back something with at least some basic highlighting or tagging.
20:38:36FromGitter<alehander92> isn't this more like maching learning
20:38:41disrupteknah.
20:38:44FromGitter<alehander92> or cluster
20:38:47FromGitter<alehander92> detection
20:38:54FromGitter<alehander92> i had an idea
20:38:55disruptekit doesn't need to be that sophisticated.
20:38:57FromGitter<alehander92> related to that dude
20:38:58FromGitter<alehander92> reminds me
20:39:04FromGitter<alehander92> i want to make this app
20:39:15FromGitter<alehander92> which collects info about features
20:39:20FromGitter<alehander92> for many different languages
20:39:33FromGitter<alehander92> i can do it in a very simple way
20:39:40FromGitter<alehander92> but i tend to overengineer it in my mind
20:40:01disruptekwell, don't.
20:40:19FromGitter<alehander92> disruptek
20:40:23disrupteksasha
20:40:25FromGitter<alehander92> ok i'll ask for opinions
20:40:28FromGitter<alehander92> e.g.
20:40:34FromGitter<alehander92> i want a syntax search
20:40:39FromGitter<alehander92> you write an exampe syntax
20:40:47FromGitter<alehander92> and find out if any known language has it
20:40:58FromGitter<alehander92> e.g. `for <a> in <b> ..< <c>`
20:41:06FromGitter<alehander92> you get swift/nim
20:41:10disruptekthat's not very hard to do.
20:41:17FromGitter<alehander92> but does it make sense
20:41:19FromGitter<alehander92> as a feature
20:41:26FromGitter<alehander92> another problem is the whole categorization thing
20:41:32disrupteknot for me, but maybe for someone.
20:41:36FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> remove all identifiers, have all the valid syntax stored in a DB, then just search for nearest match 😛
20:41:39FromGitter<alehander92> because features have subfeatures and clash in different ways
20:41:52disruptekit's pretty standard nlp stuff.
20:41:55FromGitter<alehander92> hm, i'd save a structural thing
20:41:56disruptekbayse/markov.
20:42:01disruptekbayes, too.
20:42:07FromGitter<alehander92> but is it
20:42:10disruptekyes.
20:42:25FromGitter<alehander92> like does it account for operators / symbols in structure
20:42:31FromGitter<alehander92> human languages usually have more
20:42:40FromGitter<alehander92> fuzzy word grammar rules
20:42:46disruptekof course.
20:42:53FromGitter<alehander92> so i feel like one can define syntax rules more formally
20:42:58disruptekpl is more regular so there is better signal.
20:43:00FromGitter<alehander92> and search in less statistical way
20:43:07FromGitter<alehander92> but so much work
20:43:14FromGitter<alehander92> other thing is dependencies
20:43:16disruptek the work isn't useful.
20:43:29FromGitter<alehander92> it's hard to assess how a feature comes from
20:43:36FromGitter<alehander92> but this might be subjective
20:43:49FromGitter<alehander92> so just showing the history of similar features through time
20:44:01disruptekdude. no one gives a shit.
20:44:03FromGitter<alehander92> might show a more clear picture
20:44:06FromGitter<alehander92> i do dude
20:44:18disruptekfind yourself a pen and a piece of paper.
20:44:20disruptekjob done.
20:44:20FromGitter<alehander92> and people constantly are like this lang that lang
20:44:46disrupteki just saw you star some repo with a graph of language origins.
20:44:51disruptekwhat more do you want?
20:44:57FromGitter<alehander92> that's the thing
20:44:58FromGitter<alehander92> much more
20:45:10FromGitter<alehander92> graphs can be so much useful if they contain
20:45:13FromGitter<alehander92> like dude
20:45:15FromGitter<alehander92> seriously
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20:45:41FromGitter<alehander92> sorry
20:45:45FromGitter<alehander92> couldn't explain it well
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20:46:10FromGitter<alehander92> it's cool to compare languages
20:46:11disrupteki get that you want a property graph with buzzwords and shit.
20:46:21FromGitter<alehander92> but we have like e.g. 200 features
20:46:23disrupteki just think it's a waste of effort.
20:46:25FromGitter<alehander92> which is more fine grained
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20:46:36FromGitter<alehander92> e.g. if i want to study how bigint support or dependent type support
20:46:38FromGitter<alehander92> evolved
20:46:43FromGitter<alehander92> i can study specifically that
20:47:02FromGitter<alehander92> well it's not really, because it's useful to compare that anyway
20:47:24FromGitter<alehander92> because most of lang comparisons are X feature vs Y feature and it's just repetitions of that
20:47:44disruptekno, buzzwords are useless for comparison purposes.
20:47:52FromGitter<alehander92> but what is buzzword here
20:48:07FromGitter<alehander92> i want to see overloading
20:48:26FromGitter<alehander92> and i can see which different languages use a specific kind of overloading
20:48:32FromGitter<alehander92> this is interesting to a lang nerd
20:48:49FromGitter<alehander92> or wonder if any lang used a particular combo of features
20:49:16disruptekeh..
20:50:57FromGitter<alehander92> or compare syntaxes for macros between all lang that define them
20:50:59FromGitter<alehander92> etc
20:51:02FromGitter<alehander92> super many cases
20:51:06FromGitter<alehander92> like it's super niche
20:51:10*idxu quit (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
20:51:22FromGitter<alehander92> but not less niche than benchmarks
20:51:23FromGitter<alehander92> imo
20:51:34FromDiscord<geekrelief> Hi, I'm trying to produce a dll from a dsl. Is it possible to wrap the nim compiler?
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20:52:40disruptekshashlick: what do i have to do to get nimble to colorize output in ci?
20:52:53disruptekgeekrelief: sure.
20:53:03FromDiscord<geekrelief> I have a voxel engine that uses a visual graph to create a "shader", and it wants to compile the shader into a dll. I want the end user to be able to d/l a single executable without any other dependencies.
20:53:15disruptektiny example here:
20:53:17disruptek!repo dust
20:53:18disbothttps://github.com/disruptek/dust -- 9dust: 11DUST is Unattended Syntax Truncation 15 3⭐ 0🍴 7& 1 more...
20:55:10FromDiscord<geekrelief> @disruptek thanks for the example code!
20:55:18disrupteksure boss, have fun.
20:55:44FromDiscord<geekrelief> just a quick question can you point me to the file/API that outputs executables
20:56:18disruptektype `which nim` into your terminal.
20:56:23*idxu quit (Client Quit)
20:56:55FromDiscord<geekrelief> I mean within the compiler API
20:57:07disruptekthe compiler is 60k lines.
20:57:16disruptekalmost all of it is used to output executables.
20:57:16*idxu joined #nim
20:57:30disruptekthat's kinda the point of a compiler.
20:57:41FromDiscord<geekrelief> right I get that ..
20:57:41FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> the compiler outputs c/c++/js code also, not actual executable
20:57:49FromDiscord<djazz> Compiler ouputs code
20:58:06FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> (by default gcc)
20:58:12FromDiscord<djazz> Why put shader in dll?
20:58:12disruptekdoesn't matter, they are equivalent for our purposes.
20:58:14FromDiscord<geekrelief> I see.. would there be a way to create a single executable for the end user without the gcc dependency
20:58:21FromDiscord<geekrelief> (edit) 'dependency' => 'dependency?'
20:58:40disruptekpossibly using nvlm.
20:58:41FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> statically linking (?)
20:58:55disruptekit would be better if you focused on solving the problem you actually have. hint: this isn't it.
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20:59:23FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> did you mean nlvm btw?
20:59:29disruptekyes.
21:00:10*Vladar quit (Quit: Leaving)
21:00:12FromDiscord<geekrelief> ok thanks for the suggestions
21:00:14FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> ok, and as disruptek said, the dlls are not really your problem, the point of dlls were to be independent of the executables to be easily reused
21:00:14FromDiscord<geekrelief> I'll take a look
21:00:56*moerm joined #nim
21:01:16moermHello, everyone - the xenophobe is here
21:01:26FromDiscord<djazz> What format are the shaders?
21:01:27FromDiscord<geekrelief> yes basically the dlls are going to be loaded by the voxel engine to run
21:01:47FromDiscord<geekrelief> fyi, I'm asking for someone else
21:02:00FromDiscord<geekrelief> I assume a custom format
21:02:11moerm(Some idiot called me xenophobe because I said that my experience with russian colleagues is *pleasant*. Oh well, it seems that lobotomies are free nowadays
21:02:12FromDiscord<geekrelief> the shaders are generated with a visual graph
21:02:25moerm)
21:03:00FromDiscord<djazz> Then what do you/they need dll/so/dylib for? Just make a file format
21:03:12FromGitter<alehander92> moerm so edgy dude
21:03:39FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> or use glsl
21:04:15FromDiscord<geekrelief> Yeah that's a good point. They could be just brainstorming the right way to do it..
21:04:22moermalehandler I *LIKE* russian software engineers (well, 95% of them). Here, I did it again, evil "xenophobic" me.
21:04:24FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> there are examples of using shaders from within nim with glsl, even outputing glsl
21:04:38FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> ...code and using it automatically
21:04:38FromDiscord<geekrelief> but the goal is produce an optimized C API dll
21:05:14FromGitter<alehander92> moerm no problem, i get ya, but stuff like "lobotomis are free nowadays" just sounds cringey to me
21:05:16FromDiscord<geekrelief> yeah this isn't glsl though.. it's basically a DSL for a voxel engine
21:05:35FromDiscord<djazz> NimScript maybe?
21:06:14moermalehandler well a lobotomy seems to be the most probable explanation for that accusation.
21:06:19FromGitter<alehander92> but i love how everyone has a strong opinion about russians haha
21:06:21FromDiscord<geekrelief> not sure, but I appreciate the feedback and links. Going to take a look at nlvm
21:06:27FromDiscord<Clyybber> also a cool insult IMO
21:06:44FromDiscord<Clyybber> i'm gonna remember that one
21:06:47FromGitter<alehander92> eh requires more context
21:07:01FromGitter<alehander92> but this stuff sound a lot like "i am 17 and i am very smart" to me
21:07:36moermClyybber maybe but that isn't my intention. I simply tried to rationally explain how such an idiocy was uttered ...
21:08:06FromGitter<alehander92> i just feel people who need to use super-hyperbole/insults in 10% of their sentences
21:08:16FromGitter<alehander92> really can't articulate well their actual argument
21:08:22moermalehander92, Yep, that guy looks like an idiot, talks like an idiot and highly likely is an idiot.
21:08:28FromGitter<alehander92> or lack some kind of normal empathy
21:08:32FromGitter<alehander92> or humbleness
21:08:46FromGitter<alehander92> and i despise that more than supposed "idiocy"
21:09:29moermI couldn't comment any more (thread is closed) but he pretty much explained himself by stating that practical experience isn't needed and "smart guys" just read books instead ...
21:09:38Yardanicomoerm: you can talk with him in telegram :)
21:09:39moermThanks, your honour, no more questions.
21:09:46Yardanicoinitial discussion started there and it's still on-going
21:09:58Yardanicothat is, discussion even before the nim forum thread
21:10:02FromGitter<alehander92> well great, and there are so many creative way in which one can show the error and teach in love
21:10:09moermYardanico, Thanks but I'm not at all interested. Talking with idiots is not my habit
21:10:25FromGitter<alehander92> usually people that call other people idiots
21:10:29FromGitter<alehander92> are not very smart
21:10:32FromGitter<alehander92> in my experience
21:10:49FromGitter<alehander92> like, they are smart, but they do lack a certain objectivity about their own weakness
21:10:56ZevvI always *whisper* idiot
21:10:59FromGitter<alehander92> yeah, there are some exceptions
21:11:03Zevvin the elevator, on the toilets
21:11:05disruptekwhat weaknesses?
21:11:11moermalehander92, Yay, I'm a good example, I'm not at all smart (but gladly my IQ allowds me to emulate intelligence)
21:11:18FromGitter<alehander92> but i am talking about easily dropping it for all kinds of people that have a stupid opinion
21:11:18FromDiscord<Rika> i dont know a single person who doesnt call someone an idiot
21:11:23FromGitter<alehander92> the thing is
21:11:30FromGitter<alehander92> we all say stupid stuff often
21:11:40Zevvor when I pass behind someone. Just very quietly. ᶦᵈᶦᵒᵗ
21:11:48FromGitter<alehander92> so you guys don't really know if i am not a bigger idiot
21:11:53moermZevv *g
21:11:56FromGitter<alehander92> (how do you do the small letters man)
21:12:04Zevvjust type very softly
21:12:09moermHahaha
21:13:03FromGitter<alehander92> guys we discuss
21:13:04moermalehandler My experience is that I failed miserably when trying to be holy. So I set my targets much lower, your holiness
21:13:15FromGitter<alehander92> geopolitics in nim-offtopic, so sorry if i am off sometimes
21:13:46moermUhm, stating that one likes (most) russian developers is *not* geopolitics
21:14:20FromGitter<alehander92> no, we are talking about geopolitics in another nim channel #nim-offtopic
21:14:30FromGitter<alehander92> actual geopolitics ;))))
21:14:53FromGitter<alehander92> moerm i am not talking about holiness tho
21:14:55moermO strongly prefer Nim over geopolitics
21:15:05moerm-O+I
21:15:08FromGitter<alehander92> being fair and not a douche is not holiness
21:15:21FromGitter<alehander92> yeah i suspect i am not going to be the UN leader
21:15:23FromGitter<alehander92> anytime soon
21:15:48moermalehander92, and I'll continue to call an idiot "idiot". KISS principle
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21:17:03FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> this seems like a stupid discussion
21:17:20FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> in all honesty, this really does not seem to make any sense
21:17:21moermFunny, when I (honestly) state that I consider Araq brillant (~ the opposite of idiot) nobody has a problem. But when I call an idiot and idiot some people complain
21:17:44Yardanicobecause you might end up in some people's twitter or mastodon posts :P
21:17:47disruptekweird.
21:17:58moermI call that woke and virtue signalling
21:18:22moermYardanico, Me? I don't care. May they enjoy it
21:18:27Yardanicohehe
21:20:07FromGitter<alehander92> moerm well i honestly think that nuance is super cool
21:20:29FromGitter<alehander92> so most people are not really idiots and most people are not really brilliant imo
21:20:45Zevvwe're all average, statistically speaking
21:21:04FromGitter<alehander92> but overally saying good things about other people seems as a more objective thing
21:21:05*maier quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
21:21:06moermalehander92, I agree. But so is variety. Nuance for those who get it, and a clear cut "idiot!" for idiots.
21:21:08FromGitter<alehander92> more selfless
21:21:14ZevvI am *so* average, I look down at all of you from the top of the bell curve!
21:21:39FromGitter<alehander92> well.. i am not saying we are no fools, but in most cases i feel people use it in a stupid way
21:21:53FromGitter<alehander92> and when they get caught in a situation where they are idiot
21:21:53moermZevv BELL curve? How average!
21:22:06Zevvthat's what I say.
21:22:07FromGitter<alehander92> they don't seem to actually apply the same judgmenet
21:22:11FromGitter<alehander92> (me as well)
21:22:55moermalehander92, That idiot attacked the intelligence and the great work of Araq and the team. That does not deserve nuance but a slap in his stupid face
21:23:44moermZevv Sorry but I don't discuss with people whose IQ is higher than I can count *g
21:23:49FromGitter<alehander92> Araq is not some kind of art piece in the Louvre dude
21:24:01FromGitter<alehander92> he can defend himself
21:24:21Zevvyou know what. I'm out of here, g'night
21:24:23Yardanicopeople in this channel are way above average :)
21:24:25FromGitter<alehander92> and defense is much more fruitful when it doesn't fall to the level of attackers
21:24:26Yardanicogood night Zevv
21:24:43moermalehander92, Thanks for the update, but I got to know him a bit - and trust me, I'm not gratuiously tossing the word "brillant"
21:24:48FromGitter<alehander92> Zevv you live below sea level man
21:24:50moermn8 Zevv
21:25:22FromGitter<alehander92> moerm i am not disputting this, just the whole protection thing feels bizarre to me
21:25:48FromGitter<alehander92> like, it can be done in a more calm way
21:25:59FromGitter<alehander92> if i read people being annoyed and insulting, i feel something is getting to them
21:26:03FromGitter<alehander92> i feel weakness
21:26:14FromGitter<alehander92> it's not the high road
21:27:00moermalehander92, Well, you are free to consider me weak. And btw, I don't care for the high road. I care for the *right* road
21:27:03shashlicklet it go folks, makes no difference - the guy has spent a year on his work, he's not going to stop based on some random posts
21:27:06*arecacea1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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21:27:50moermshashlick, Probably good advice. But he chose to take a dump *here* ... and *here* I react
21:28:44FromGitter<alehander92> i don't think you're weak, but this approach is just .. meh imo
21:29:05FromGitter<alehander92> but i am not even sure who is the "bad guy" here
21:29:09FromGitter<alehander92> that attacked Araq
21:29:10moermalehandler So?
21:29:27FromDiscord<Admin> how would i get the raw tcppayload when running a http server?
21:29:36Yardanicoyou don't :)
21:29:51Yardanicoor write your own http server which allows that
21:29:58Yardanicoyou can reuse most http server code from the stdlib
21:30:22FromDiscord<Admin> oof
21:30:24moermAdmin there are tool. Or, as Yardanico said, you create your own http server
21:30:45Yardanico@Admin that's a very niche use-case
21:30:57FromGitter<alehander92> moerm i think the blog guy was a bit misguided and over-enthusiased and obviously not a nim expert
21:31:00Yardanicothat's why almost no http server implementations regardless of the language has them :)
21:31:09FromDiscord<Admin> ok maybe this is implemented,↵how do i get the clienthello handshake data ?
21:31:09FromGitter<alehander92> but that's more of naivety/young thing
21:31:44FromGitter<alehander92> i suspect many people were a bit .. over-enthusiastic while fresh in something
21:32:19moermalehander92, And I think he is an idiot and "reflects" superficially and idiotically and is greedy for attention
21:32:59moermBut I guess we already wasted too much attention on him.
21:33:15FromGitter<alehander92> a.k.a. he's green, he'll get some experience and he'll become aware of this eventually
21:33:24FromGitter<alehander92> no need for all this attention
21:33:37moermale I'm not his daddy nor his brother. I don't care
21:33:47FromGitter<alehander92> i'd even say that his rust treatment seemed more unfair
21:34:00FromGitter<alehander92> but i barelay had a view several hours ago so maybe not
21:34:06moermThe "Xenophobe" (hahahaha!) wishes you all a good time and leaves now
21:34:10FromGitter<alehander92> it would be such a plot twist
21:34:13FromGitter<alehander92> if you were his brother
21:34:15FromGitter<alehander92> haha
21:34:27*moerm quit (Quit: Leaving)
21:37:18FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> Does Nim currently default to ref counting?
21:37:24FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> Ie arc or orc
21:37:46Yardaniconim's default GC right now is deferred refcounting with mark&sweep for cycle collection
21:37:57Yardanicoarc is just pure refcounting + move semantics, not "deferred" or anything
21:38:07FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> I see
21:38:08YardanicoORC is arc with a cycle collector
21:38:32FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> So is arc/orc/current better for real-time applications like games?
21:38:51Yardanicowell to be honest even refc can be soft realtime
21:38:58Yardanicoyou can set max pause, only run the GC when you need it to run, etf
21:39:00Yardanicoetc
21:39:18FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> Current is honestly fine for gamedev
21:39:21Yardanicoarc is hard realtime, yes, so if you are sure you don't have cycles, you can use ARC. ORC is not hard realtime
21:39:27FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> I have minimal issues with it
21:39:29FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> I see
21:39:58FromGitter<alehander92> morm good night <3
21:40:12FromDiscord<iWonderAboutTuatara> Arc is hard real-time meaning no need to fiddle with stuff to get it to work for real-time apps?
21:40:22Yardanicowell, yes
21:40:32Yardanicoit's normal refcounting with move semantics
21:49:15FromDiscord<Admin> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2vUH
21:49:24Yardanico-d:ssl
21:49:50Yardanicoand asynchttpserver doesn't support ssl anyway
21:49:51Yardanicoafaik
21:50:01FromDiscord<Admin> hmm when i got to type its there
21:50:17Yardanicobecause a socket *might* have a sslContent
21:50:43FromDiscord<Admin> :thonk:
21:51:20*tane quit (Quit: Leaving)
21:51:38FromDiscord<Admin> how would i fix this
21:52:11*Kaivo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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22:03:20AraqYardanico, dunno, maybe it's now false understatement. it's not "normal refcounting" anymore when 90% of RC ops are statically elided
22:03:26Yardanicoah right
22:03:28Yardanico:P
22:03:39disruptekyes.
22:04:17disruptekthese aren't normal, either: 🏀⚽
22:04:29disruptekat least, that's what the doctor tells me.
22:04:34Yardanico🍆🍋🍎
22:04:36disruptekshe may have a vested interest, though.
22:05:06Araq<insert Unicode beer> here
22:05:24Yardanicothere are actually two different emojis for that
22:05:32Yardanico🍻 and 🍺
22:05:35Yardanicotwo beers and one beer :D
22:05:46Yardanicoah wait, first one is "🍻 Clinking Beer Mugs"
22:05:55disruptekthey aren't clinking.
22:05:58disruptekthey are bumping.
22:06:00disruptek!repo bump
22:06:01disbothttps://github.com/disruptek/bump -- 9bump: 11a tiny tool to bump nimble versions 🍻 15 16⭐ 1🍴
22:06:05Yardanicowow that was smooth
22:06:07Araqwe need 3 beers though
22:06:25Araqsee? Unicode doesn't "scale", let's invent something better
22:06:28disruptekspeak for yourself; i'd rather drink horse piss.
22:06:49disruptekc'mon, you drink to get drunk.
22:07:01disruptekotherwise you may as well just gargle water.
22:07:17Araqhow about encoding imagines as a 2D matrix of colors instead. nah, that's crazy talk
22:07:29disruptekthis again?
22:07:38disruptekwhat is it with you and thus mutant unicode concept?
22:07:57disruptekdon't we have this already, basically?
22:08:17AraqI simply hate textmode, sorry
22:08:24disruptekwhy?
22:08:33disruptekhow would you prefer to render text?
22:08:55disruptekor do you want to just code visually.
22:09:14Araqoh the text is fine but then you need to add a single extension, in former times called putPixel
22:09:19disruptekchords to produce boxes, circles and arrows, diamonds and triangles.
22:09:44disruptek!repo zalgo
22:09:46disbothttps://github.com/as-com/_zalgo_ -- 9_zalgo_: 11Destroying GitHub layout since 2016.͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮͈̮̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆̎̆�
22:09:53Araqyou can add vector graphics for something fancier. but instead they add millions of little images to Unicode
22:10:26disrupteki dunno about you, but my unicode is rendered in svg.
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22:12:34disruptekAraq: btw mangling is not incorrectly rewriting symbols that already have a loc defined.
22:12:53Araqzalgo is a good example :-)
22:13:26disrupteki'm producing two symbols for different modules and they are getting combined in the same file.
22:13:38disruptekit's mostly destructors stuff.
22:18:00AraqError: typeless parameters are obsolete
22:18:06Araqah the memories
22:18:28disruptekgood riddance. i don't think i would ever use such a beast.
22:18:46Araqwe could update the error message now, I can hardly remember this feature
22:19:42Araqso, last thing on my todo, a 'Dictionary' concept
22:19:53Araq'Indexable' works...
22:22:53Araqonce that's done I can cheat and add 'assert' to my concepts
22:23:24Araqassert compiles(x == y) # cannot infere my type variables, I don't care
22:23:25disruptekjust tell me when you're ready for bug reports.
22:23:57Araqwell this work is not scheduled, I should finish off 'koch boot --gc:arc' and release 1.4
22:24:25Araqso I shouldn't be ready for bug reports this year
22:24:47disruptekwhen 1.4 is released, what role will 1.2 have?
22:24:51Araqbut there is good news. the impl is 250 lines and you can write PRs
22:25:23disruptekmy PRs start at 3k loc and go from there.
22:25:26disruptekthere's no playin' aroun'.
22:25:26Araqand the code is isolated, you touch it, nothing else in the compiler breaks
22:25:51disrupteki am mangling sfGeneratedOp specially.
22:25:57disruptekwell, as if it were global.
22:26:03Araqin fact, that's the biggest lesson I learned from this, re-using sigmatch for unrelated purposes is madness
22:26:17disruptekspeak now or forever hold your peace.
22:26:37Araqthe basic unification algorithm is easy, sigmatch is complex because of all the different type relations
22:26:41disruptekif sigmatch was rewritten, we'd be happier to use it for other stufff.
22:26:45Araqwhich I don't need for concept matching
22:27:38Araqcode reuse is overrated :-)
22:28:02disruptekyou only say that because we don't have cyclic modules.
22:28:27Araqno.
22:28:53Araqand I like to offer you cyclic modules, have given up my dislikes against them
22:29:08disruptekwith flat namespace?
22:29:40Araqnamespaces are independent of cycles
22:29:51disruptekbut no scoping, right?
22:30:00disruptekor have you moderated on this, too.
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22:32:46AraqI don't understand your question
22:32:54Araqdo you want "Local" imports?
22:33:04disruptekyou mean local to scope? no.
22:33:33disrupteki don't have a strong opinion yet, but you had earlier said you didn't want to go the way of npm.
22:34:21disrupteki'm moving towards submodules for everything, so i'm trying to figure out how nimph is going to help the user.
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22:35:41shashlickNo namespace!
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22:41:25disruptekwhy?
22:41:52disruptekseems like a passionate statement but there's no subtext.
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22:54:08FromDiscord<dom96> shashlick: finally finished my response 🙂 https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/6738#41989
23:00:17shashlicknice
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23:10:49FromDiscord<dom96> well, that's awkward
23:10:58FromDiscord<dom96> nimforum hasn't been sending emails at all
23:11:36Yardanicolol
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23:14:53FromDiscord<dom96> all thanks to https://github.com/nim-lang/nimforum/commit/7e424792284003e88d013407e1997f2b85866d8e
23:15:07FromDiscord<dom96> Anyway, now it definitely works 🙂
23:15:15Yardanicoat least it wasn't due to my commit :P
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23:20:40ForumUpdaterBotNew thread by Archnim: How can i separate the integer part of a number from its decimal part ?, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/6758
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23:49:03FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> I've been logged out again on the nim forums
23:49:06FromDiscord<Elegant Beef> This is atrocious!
23:55:29shashlickthe forum is like a bank - it logs you out cause, you know