<< 01-11-2017 >>
00:00:40FromGitter<mratsim> ```result = newSeq[T](input.len) ⏎ for i in 0||result.high: ⏎ result[i] = your_operation[i]``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=59f90ea8f7299e8f53582ee8]
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00:09:15federico3mratsim thanks but I was looking for something to use with async and threads
00:20:29vivusCan anyone explain to me why most dynamic languages choose OOP?
00:22:26FromGitter<mratsim> Dynamic languages require reference types. OOP works well (requires) with ref types.
00:23:23FromGitter<mratsim> obviously there was a fashion effect as well
00:24:06FromGitter<mratsim> There s only so much programming paradigm: Lisp, procedural, aspect-oriented, logic, functional and OOP ...
00:24:33vivusdoesn't procedural fall under OOP?
00:24:49FromGitter<mratsim> C is procedural but not OOP
00:24:56vivusand so is Nim?
00:25:22FromGitter<mratsim> procedural means you have control structure like for loop, while, if/then, etc
00:25:41vivuswhat other static, compiled languages are just procedural without OOP?
00:25:52FromGitter<data-man> A task lists in the GitHub is very useful for a issues and PRs. It is necessary that all users use them. :)
00:26:07FromGitter<mratsim> Fortran
00:26:35FromGitter<mratsim> and you have of course procedures/functions
00:26:52vivussomeone mentioned here (not too long ago) that Nim shares a lot less with Python than people assume. is this true?
00:27:08vivus(or was it HN)
00:27:13vivus(can't recall exactly)
00:27:50FromGitter<mratsim> It shares the syntax. But besides you will find more similarities with Pascal than Python
00:28:37vivusI wrote some Nim not too long ago that looked almost like Python. However, seeing other peoples Nim code is sometimes confusing.
00:31:50FromGitter<mratsim> I think this happen in all languages. Code that is written by you (or that you wrote 6 months ago) is harder to read
00:32:33vivusI can understand when a function is written and it does 1 thing well. but there are some exotic edge-cases used that make the code confusing
00:32:44FromGitter<mratsim> And Nim has lots of powerful features, if you’re at the beginning of your learning curve some things are “wow I can do that” or “what the hell does that do"
00:33:27FromGitter<mratsim> But thankfully, since Nim uses keywords instead of symbols you should be able to easily find any advanced feature in the manual
00:34:23vivusI was just looking at some crystal code and I know what you mean about symbols. `x-controller::y-something`
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00:38:58Calinouthis is why you should always comment your code liberally
00:39:02Calinou~~or even comunistically~~
00:39:40FromGitter<data-man> @vivus: You may look at C++ templates! :)
00:40:14vivusI can't say I am a fan of verbose symbols as syntax. that is a barrier to entry
00:43:16Calinouyeah, C++ is not the pinacle of conciseness
00:43:21Calinoupinnacle*
00:45:03vivusCalinou: when did you join the FSF? :O
00:45:14Calinouvivus: this month
00:45:18Calinou:-)
00:45:19vivuscongrats :)
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00:48:09FromGitter<data-man> And what about the D language templates? :) ⏎ ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=59f919c9976e63937e103746]
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00:49:07FromGitter<mratsim> The `~` operator is concatenation?
00:49:30FromGitter<data-man> Yes
00:50:29FromGitter<mratsim> I don’t like the `!` and the noisy static but otherwise It’s pretty good
00:52:06FromGitter<data-man> I chose not the worst example :)
00:52:15vivusthis is Crystal code: https://www.zerobin.net/?ea0aec794e502a50#u0MdDXWmcJD/EPySShyhM20IxooBaWlB2DeJX3CTxok=
00:55:42vivusoh wow, that confusing code auto-generated an entire website with authentication for me
00:56:29CalinouCrystal code usually looks more terse than Nim for me
00:56:35Calinouit can look a bit *too* terse, too
00:57:20vivusapparently Rubyists can understand this code quite easily
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02:07:53FromGitter<gogolxdong> How to import karax? I have nimble installed and it is present in the .nimble/pkg path but can't open.
02:10:58hogelanddom96: nim in action arrived today! :o)
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02:45:19FromGitter<brentp> @zetashift R is popular for RNA-Seq and some types of analyses (and among some groups). I've done enough R to try to stay away when possible.
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03:09:45Xec2nim isn't building on nim 0.17.2: https://gist.github.com/Xe/ff541c2c4cf6ba791bfd3c9d69cc8b87
03:11:32Xeoh, known issue, fixing
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04:08:26skrylaryardanico: couple more headers and the fltk stuff will be ready for testing
04:09:20FromGitter<gogolxdong> Is it possible to partially import like from jsffi import jsnew?
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05:29:11FromGitter<Varriount> @gogolxdong You mean https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#modules-from-import-statement ?
05:54:26FromGitter<gogolxdong> yeah, I have figured it out, it's implemented like python. Now I am having question about karax, one is how to import it from another project the other is it seems overlayed with jsffi, cannot import both at the same time, though I used from jsffi import jsnew,JsObject , it caused undeclared routine of libvirtual module `attempting to call undeclared routine: 'Hypervisor' ` which works well when only imports jsffi.
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07:17:05FromGitter<gogolxdong> I have conceived two crossing platform solutions : one is sdl2 but got problems of integrating tcp through SDL2_net.dll in windows ,the other is web GUI through karax+nodejs libvirt module but got stuck too, cannot get a balance,what's your opinion?
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08:22:34Araqgogolxdong: what's the problem of importing jsffi and karax? karax doesn't use jsffi
08:28:11FromGitter<gogolxdong> yes , because I wrote a prototype from nim-electron using jsnew and it works well. karax has JDict which is similar with JsObject but can't work. I tried from jsffi import JsObject,jsnew as well as karax as follows :https://gist.github.com/gogolxdong/cedb93aaf7249ec8170243309ee5b3a4
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08:33:16Araqwell jsffi is full of magic you can't only import the symbols you think are required
08:34:31FromGitter<gogolxdong> yes, import both cause ambigious call `&`
08:34:33Araqyour snippet compiles for me when I do 'import jsffi'
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08:37:00Araqthe karax import can just be import karax / [vdom, karaxdsl, karax]
08:37:22Araqyou don't have to use jstrutils, compact or jdict.
08:37:34FromGitter<alehander42> what are the differences between JDict and stl's JsAssoc ? I've always used the later
08:37:47Araqstl?
08:37:55FromGitter<alehander42> standard library*
08:39:15FromGitter<gogolxdong> yes , ambigiousness comes from jsutils &
08:39:51yglukhovAraq: hi, can you merge https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/6662 pls?
08:39:52FromGitter<gogolxdong> but I still wonder how to import karax from another project since I have nimble installed.
08:40:31AraqJDict uses JS objects as hash tables, JsAssoc is for interfacing with JS
08:41:45FromGitter<alehander42> you can use JsAssoc-s as hash tables and use JDict to interface with JS, I don't think a line between the two usages is needed
08:42:15Araqwell I don't use jsffi, I like my type safety too much
08:44:04FromGitter<alehander42> which is why I've been bugging you people for this js inline object type thing :P
08:46:55FromGitter<gogolxdong> I like it too, seems lack of alternative of jsnew+JsObject.
08:49:10FromGitter<gogolxdong> JsObject {.importcpp: "{@}".} ==JDict {.importcpp: "{@}".} ?
08:50:42PMunchHmm, this GraphQL is really cool dom96
08:51:36FromGitter<gogolxdong> Do you design karax using nims to specify the karax path and cannot be imported from nimble intentionally?
08:52:28FromGitter<gogolxdong> I am not sure whether there is any magic.
08:52:43Araqnimble install karax
08:52:56Araqimport karax / [stuff]
08:53:08Araqis supposed to work :-)
08:54:14FromGitter<gogolxdong> packages not found. I followed your instructions in readme
08:54:17PMunchYeah, that's worked fine for me
08:56:34FromGitter<gogolxdong> git clone ,cd /karax and nim install works fine ,but nimble install karax end up with`Error: Package not found.`
08:56:59PMunchnim install?
08:57:12FromGitter<gogolxdong> nimble install
08:57:28PMunchgit clone; cd karax; nimble install
08:57:32PMunchThat should be all you need
08:57:39PMunchNo "nimble install karax"
08:57:51Araqouch, it's still missing from packages.json
08:58:07Araqbecause 'nimble publish' fails
08:58:13Araqbut I think that got fixed?
09:04:43PMunchNo idea, I've never used nimble publish :P
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09:33:40skrylari have a few times. it's ... mmm.
09:34:31PMunchHaha, I think I tried it once and it didn't work :P
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09:41:24FromGitter<mratsim> Same, tried it it created an half-assed PR that I had to edit by hand
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09:42:38skrylarit kept using localhost repositories i had to fix manually
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10:16:26FromGitter<sptorin_twitter> How I can sort table by values, not by keys?
10:21:04couven92guys? echo without newline?
10:21:35couven92or do I have to do `stdout.write` for that?
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10:22:18FromGitter<mratsim> there might be a special character to “eat” the previous new line
10:23:35couven92@mratsim, nope not doing that, but yes it would probably be `echo "\b".repeat("\n".len())`
10:24:02couven92at least in C `\b` is the *eating* character
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10:42:00FromGitter<alehander42> why can't I cast to pointer value of `array[N, char]`
10:42:19FromGitter<alehander42> (trying to use it in streams writedata)
10:43:42FromGitter<alehander42> ah I got it nvm
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11:01:49Araqsptorin: convert the table to a seq and use algorithm.sort with a custom comparator
11:02:16Araqcouven92: you have to use stdout.write and \b doesn't work as you think it does I think
11:02:26Araqin C or Nim.
11:02:33couven92Araq, yes I noticed that :P
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11:03:03couven92Araq, btw, I just about to write up the PR for fixing testament HTML gen
11:05:33couven92Araq, https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/6667
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11:08:43couven92Araq, what do you think about adding `tests\testament\tester --failing html` to the CI builds and exporting the generated `testresults.html` as CI build artifact?
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11:10:19couven92i.e. as a nice test failure report... With adding `--failing` to the HTML command, the generated HTML is quite small (in constrast to the full log of all test cases)
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11:23:00Araqcouven92: I look at the appveyor results instead, they have a nice UI
11:23:16couven92they do? :O
11:23:24Araqyep.
11:23:34couven92travis?
11:24:33Araqtravis is generally kept busy by fixing the bash scripts that make up the core of their infrastructure
11:24:51Araqand so their UI sucks
11:25:42couven92hmm... also doesn't look like they have build artifacts for the build job...
11:26:52couven92you cannot see the output and exepected in the appveyor test pane through
11:27:05couven92s/through/though/^
11:28:18Arrrr..< first argument should default to zero
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11:40:33FromGitter<Yardanico> AppVeyor has build artefacts
11:41:31FromGitter<Yardanico> https://www.appveyor.com/docs/packaging-artifacts/
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11:44:10couven92@Yardanico, yes, but Travis CI has not
11:45:18FromGitter<gogolxdong> Is there anything wrong with this https://gist.github.com/gogolxdong/258e4e051aca7a8468b35e2eefc4b9cd , compile pass while run `node nimcache/horizon.js` comes up error.
11:45:35FromGitter<Yardanico> couven92: Travis has them too
11:46:05FromGitter<Yardanico> https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/uploading-artifacts/
11:46:24couven92Araq I want to fix the NaN bug... I gues I have to find $ for float and put in special cases?
11:46:40FromGitter<Yardanico> https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/deployment/releases/
11:46:40Araqcouven92: already fixed it
11:46:49couven92oh, okay
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11:49:28FromGitter<gogolxdong> https://gist.github.com/gogolxdong/f192c3cd6128efc97cc8ac36fa04c682
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12:05:05FromGitter<alehander42> should it be possible for Table hasKey to fail with IndexError ?
12:07:37Araqif it's a nested table
12:08:46FromGitter<alehander42> it's a `Table[uint, uint]` but it crashes quite randomly, I'll try to debug it more
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12:26:26FromGitter<alehander42> I somehow manage to get into an endless loop in `rawGetKnownHCImpl` in tables.nim
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12:31:51FromGitter<mratsim> @Araq, all hell broke lose with [^1]: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/commit/d52a1061b35bbd2abfbd062b08023d986dbafb3c, the `^^` template should definitely appear in Nim release notes.
12:32:21FromGitter<mratsim> (even if it’s not exported)
12:32:45Araqwhy?
12:33:47FromGitter<mratsim> Because it’s helpful to quickly fix the change
12:35:46FromGitter<Yardanico> There is ^ available backwards compatibility
12:35:52FromGitter<Yardanico> *for
12:36:10Araqoh I get it
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13:37:37couven92Araq, could we merge https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/6397 (that would make my booting so much quicker, and then I could actually test nim booting against x86 and x64 VCC compiler)
13:38:00couven92and maybe find out where the VCC regressions are coming from
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14:04:17couven92thanks Araq! :)
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14:39:52FromGitter<gogolxdong> @Araq Would you mind spare sometime to peak my snippet? I made compile passed but can't render html ,use node run compiled js came up with ` window.onload = init_89607; ⏎ ⏎ ``` ^``` ⏎ ⏎ ReferenceError: window is not defined` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=59f9dcb8976e63937e13d6b0]
14:40:29FromGitter<gogolxdong> https://gist.github.com/gogolxdong/1d16c2201c4ea3af264830cda527f89c
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14:41:36FromGitter<Yardanico> karax doesn't know about node.js and electron
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14:46:28FromGitter<Yardanico> so it tries to use default browser functions
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15:10:16FromGitter<gogolxdong> It's expected to use default browser functions like window,I think problem doesn't lie in js because I tried `node` run the todoapp.js file of karax example ,also gave `window is not defined` error , problem is it didn't render the html, I think there is something I didn't get quite well,vnodeToDom probably. karax is a little difficult to study because it requires a solid understanding of js.
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15:11:26FromGitter<Yardanico> Araq: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/286f89528028fc3ae9e441a18be2be11cf499174/tests/range/tn8vsint16.nim#L2 should this be -9 instead?
15:11:34FromGitter<Yardanico> because 0 - 9 is -9
15:11:54FromGitter<Yardanico> also, what's the reason of AppVeyor being actually FASTER than travis?
15:12:06Araqgogolxdong: I'm not familiar with electron's API
15:12:22Araqyardanico: oh yeah, -9
15:12:51FromGitter<Yardanico> ok, I'll change it :P
15:13:29FromGitter<SitiSchu> Nim doesnt have `or` for if statements right ? (I searched around for a while but couldnt find anythingn, yes I just started with nim ^^)
15:13:36FromGitter<Yardanico> @SitiSchu it does
15:13:50FromGitter<Yardanico> "if a == 4 or b == 5: do stuff"
15:14:03FromGitter<gogolxdong> no business of electron, it's pure karax and some jsffi
15:14:05FromGitter<SitiSchu> ok then the error is something else, thanks
15:14:08FromGitter<alehander42> @gogolxdong how are you trying to run it? it doesn't make a lot of sense to run karax directly on the node backend
15:14:27FromGitter<Yardanico> !eval let a = 5; let b = 3; if a == 4 or b == 3: echo " a = 4 or b = 3"
15:14:29NimBot a = 4 or b = 3
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15:15:03FromGitter<SitiSchu> I did `a == 3 or == 4` instead of `or a == 4`, my bad ^^
15:15:13FromGitter<Yardanico> ah, you can't do that
15:15:21FromGitter<Yardanico> you can however use built-in sets :)
15:15:26FromGitter<Yardanico> or arrays
15:15:29FromGitter<alehander42> is there any limitation on size of static arrays ? I am having gcc errors on a nim program creating >2gb array
15:15:30FromGitter<Yardanico> e.g. a in [3, 4]
15:15:50FromGitter<Yardanico> if a in [3, 4]: echo "a is 3 or 4"
15:16:59FromGitter<Yardanico> travis takes 40 minutes to complete, but appveyor only takes 26
15:16:59FromGitter<Yardanico> :D
15:17:17FromGitter<Yardanico> so it seems that travis is slower than appveyor
15:18:18FromGitter<SitiSchu> Ok so the I can use `in` similar to python,t but I cant do `not in` ?
15:18:27FromGitter<Yardanico> you can
15:18:29Araqto be fair, the travis build also performs more tests
15:18:34FromGitter<Yardanico> but it's "notin" instead of "in"
15:18:39FromGitter<Yardanico> *instead of "not in"
15:18:46FromGitter<SitiSchu> ahh ok
15:18:52FromGitter<Yardanico> if a notin [3, 4]: echo "a is not 3 or 4"
15:18:55FromGitter<SitiSchu> Thanks a lot :)
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15:22:24FromGitter<Yardanico> and if you need fast performance and your items can be stored in built-in sets, you can do: ⏎ if a notin {3, 4}: echo "a is not 3 or 4"
15:22:29FromGitter<Yardanico> this would be *slightly* faster
15:22:43FromGitter<Yardanico> but I may be wrong, maybe Nim can inline arrays here
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15:23:31FromGitter<alehander42> ah I need to pass -mcmodel=medium to gcc
15:24:09FromGitter<Yardanico> Generate code for the medium model: The program is linked in the lower 2 GB of the address space. Small symbols are also placed there. Symbols with sizes larger than -mlarge-data-threshold are put into large data or bss sections and can be located above 2GB. Programs can be statically or dynamically linked.
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15:35:50FromGitter<Yardanico> btw, @dom96, maybe we should remove "beta-grade" here? "Nimble is a beta-grade package manager for the Nim programming language."
15:39:41FromGitter<gogolxdong> Prototype was made through nim-electron at first, and it runs with npm start.I found my demands could also be met without electron as I understand better .Then I remove d electron parts and leave jsffi to make js client against libvirt server ,test it by `node` call. Now I use karax to provide dom elements and jsffi JsObject to establish connection with tcp server though run js in a reflex action. Problem is html
15:39:41FromGitter... is not rendered correctly.
15:43:31FromGitter<Yardanico> @dom96: https://github.com/nim-lang/nimble/pull/420
15:43:43FromGitter<Yardanico> (deprecated `<` warnings)
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15:47:42Araqgogolxdong: tools/karun can run karax code
15:48:14Araqnot sure what else to say, if you target the browser without electron you cannot use node.js which runs server-side
15:49:40Araqkarax runs inside a DOM implementation, it doesn't provide DOM elements, it assumes they exist
16:00:56FromGitter<gogolxdong> what you said makes better sense.no doubt it targets browser,but not through the embedded chrome of electron.I am trying event bound to DOM to make tcp request.
16:01:49FromGitter<gogolxdong> as my snippet above.
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16:07:47FromGitter<couven92> @Araq I finished my work on fixing the testament HTML gen, it's now quite fast and I had no trouble opening the generated html in neither chrome nor in edge.
16:08:45Araqok thanks, will review later
16:09:02FromGitter<couven92> Meanwhile I have been thinking about re-design of the vccexe tool. I think I know how to make it *much* faster
16:09:34miran__guys, one stupid question... how does your .gitignore file look like when you're working on a nim project?
16:09:37FromGitter<couven92> With that I will obviously also add support for VS2017
16:09:55FromGitter<gogolxdong>
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16:10:33FromGitter<couven92> miran__, I oftentimes just copy the one for the main nim repo
16:11:15FromGitter<couven92> And because of that I have multiple PRs adding stuff to the nim .gitignore :P
16:12:29FromGitter<couven92> But mostly you'll want nimcache and all the usual binary extensions (exe, lib, so, dylib) etc.
16:12:35miran__couven92: :D
16:12:52miran__just looking at that .gitignore
16:13:18Araqwhen you create a github repo you can select a .gitignore tied to Nim iirc
16:13:32miran__basically you first ignore everything, then un-ingnore the extensions you want
16:13:53miran__...and then ignore some more :)
16:14:07FromGitter<couven92> miran__ I avoid using git add .
16:15:02FromGitter<couven92> That way my gitignore grows whenever git status returns sth I am not interested in having in my index
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16:15:20adeohluwaI'm back like spinal cord
16:15:28adeohluwaTeaser Teaser Teaser
16:15:53adeohluwahow would u scrape http://directory.io with Nim Lang
16:16:34adeohluwahttps://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/jjvoOj1w/Screenshot_20171101-181604.png
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16:16:53miran__thanks couven92
16:17:56FromGitter<couven92> adeohluwa, read the FAQ, there is an API description there
16:18:50FromGitter<couven92> iirc
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16:21:39adeohluwa@<couven92> does an API make that any easier?
16:21:56adeohluwa
16:22:14adeohluwathe sheer volume is the issue right?
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16:25:41FromGitter<UrKr> Is there a syntax or a built-in macro for immutably updating an object type's field? So that the expression returns a new object with the same fields as the previous object except for the specified fields? ⏎ Basically, javascript object spread syntax? ⏎ let p = Person(name: "Tom", age: 27)
16:26:42Araqyou can write such a macro...
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16:27:21FromGitter<UrKr> Right, I suppose I'll do that. Was just wondering if it already existed
16:27:41Araqor you update the object in place, it's easy if you have a single owner and not a shared ownership soup
16:31:51FromGitter<couven92> adeohluwa, an API is always easier than dealing with human readable HTML
16:32:03Guest90253How do I get and set Cookies using get() on a HttpClient? (Sorry, I am new to nim)
16:33:04adeohluwawith that volume with an API it might take a year
16:33:04adeohluwahttps://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/4C8iejL1/Screenshot_20171101-183232.png
16:33:15FromGitter<couven92> HTML is a markup language made for a browser to display stuff pretty for a human reader, if you can it's always easier to parse data formats that are machine readable instead
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16:34:07FromGitter<couven92> so don't do searches, read page by page? There is an API for getting a page
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16:36:22adeohluwathe pages are about 72 *digits*
16:36:35adeohluwa0000000000000000000000000000000000000 in 72 places
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16:41:25FromGitter<mratsim> There is a subtle bug somewhere in the closure type matching. Nim compiler accepts but generates wrong code:
16:42:01FromGitter<mratsim> (https://files.gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim/1HM4/2017-11-01_17-40-35.png)
16:42:20FromGitter<Yardanico> Make an issue on github
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16:47:29Guest90253`How do I get and set Cookies using get() on a HttpClient? (Sorry, I am new to nim)` Or is the cookies persistent for a session?
16:50:50federico3Guest90253: if you are looking for a cookie jar: https://github.com/FedericoCeratto/nim-httpauth/blob/master/httpauthpkg/cookiejar.nim
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16:58:16FromGitter<mratsim> @yardanico would love to but it’s super complicated to reproduce in a small test case :/
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17:07:09FromGitter<mratsim> found it, it’s something to do with float32 matching float in Nim, if I force convert to float it compiles
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17:10:37FromGitter<Yardanico> Guest90253: using Set-Cookie and Cookie keys in http headers
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17:35:15FromGitter<data-man> What is the biggest project written on Nim? ⏎ Is the Nim compiler? :)
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17:42:24FromGitter<Yardanico> @data-man I think no, there are some large code bases in nim AFAIK
17:42:33FromGitter<Yardanico> Ask Araq, he knows for sure :)
17:42:43FromGitter<Yardanico> but yeah, nim compiler is probably one of the largest projects
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17:46:40Araqthere are bigger ones but they are mostly closed source
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17:54:47FromGitter<Yardanico> well yeah, I know that because of github issues :P
17:55:13FromGitter<Yardanico> or forum
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18:01:44FromGitter<Yardanico> @data-man btw, you can add your avatar to your nim forum profile (and not only to it) by registering at gravatar with your e-mail and adding your own avatar :)
18:01:49FromGitter<Yardanico> https://ru.gravatar.com/
18:07:23FromGitter<data-man> @Yardanico: Thanks I know. But I'm too lazy for that. ⏎ Than you do not like my avatar ?! :)
18:07:59FromGitter<Yardanico> @data-man well I mean nim forum uses automatic gravatar generation for default avatars :)
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18:10:37FromGitter<Yardanico> how to port your compiler to another platform - nim style: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/commit/0af85846bbd8d02ce7d5b4863b643af2140b7490
18:10:38FromGitter<Yardanico> :D
18:11:39federico3Yardanico you just spotted my comment :D
18:11:46FromGitter<Yardanico> yes
18:11:57FromGitter<Yardanico> github notifications FTW
18:13:01FromGitter<data-man> @Yardanico: I do not see any practical benefit from avatars :)
18:13:08federico3speaking of which, I have access to porter boxes to run tests against more architectures if someone is interested
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18:20:12FromGitter<data-man> Chipmunk and Rust https://github.com/slembcke/Chipmunk2D/issues/156 ⏎ I'm trying to bring him to the light side.
18:21:13FromGitter<Yardanico> @data-man he wants a "neat bindings"
18:21:15FromGitter<Yardanico> *binding
18:21:23FromGitter<Yardanico> or a complete rewrite
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18:27:16FromGitter<data-man> Attempt is not torture :)
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18:34:32FromGitter<data-man> Maybe he will be the one who will ported the Chipmunk in the Nim? :) ⏎ The Chipmunk's author replied :)
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18:35:30FromGitter<SitiSchu> Are there any command line argument parser besides parseopt and docopt ?
18:37:36FromGitter<data-man> https://github.com/fenekku/commandeer
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18:41:48FromGitter<Yardanico> btw, araq, IDK if this can be closed: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/1151
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18:43:02FromGitter<SitiSchu> @data-man thanks, looks good
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18:45:58FromGitter<data-man> Anybody tried it? https://github.com/Xe/Vardene - (A simple tool to manage multiple installs of Nim.)
18:48:56FromGitter<data-man> @SitiSchu: https://github.com/c-blake/cligen
18:49:34FromGitter<SitiSchu> I need to step up my google game ^^
18:49:44FromGitter<Yardanico> @data-man nah, everyone is using choosenim nowadays :P
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18:55:50FromGitter<data-man> Not true, I do not using.
18:56:06federico3neither do I
18:56:42FromGitter<Yardanico> well I'm not using it too, because I always use nim devel, and choosenim downloads nim repo every time you update nim
18:56:44FromGitter<Yardanico> (with devel)
18:57:10FromGitter<Gooseus> I'm not using it... didnt' realize it was a thing until I had already installed and started messing around
18:57:24FromGitter<Yardanico> so I'm waiting for https://github.com/dom96/choosenim/issues/12 :P
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19:20:24federico3this is spot on https://blog.toggl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/toggl-if-the-world-was-created-by-a-programmer.jpg
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19:26:00dom96data-man: Why aren't you using it?
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19:38:46FromGitter<data-man> @dom96: Only hardcore, only handmade. :) ⏎ I do not using Nimble too.
19:39:17dom96You mean you only use software you yourself have written?
19:49:34FromGitter<data-man> It's in my distant plans, I'll just share an idea. ⏎ Instead of "learning" c2nim to parse C/C ++ code, we can write a wrapper for the GCC-Plugin API. ⏎ Or to write a Lua-plugin for https://colberg.org/gcc-lua/index.html
20:02:59dom96if Nimble/choosenim is missing something then please let me know, I want to fix it so that it's useful to you :)
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20:22:07FromGitter<Yardanico> @data-man it wouldn't be portable
20:22:28shashlickdom96: I opened that issue for proxy support, was looking into the code to see how it could be implemented
20:22:31FromGitter<Yardanico> nim aims to be compatible with gcc/vcc/icc/clang/tcc/some other C compilers
20:22:36shashlickhow do I know whether you are using curl or http.client?
20:22:51FromGitter<Yardanico> shashlick: nim's httpclient doesn't use curl
20:24:56shashlickno in choosenim, download.nim, there's code for curl and http.client
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20:25:49FromGitter<Yardanico> https://github.com/dom96/choosenim/blob/master/src/choosenim/download.nim#L4
20:26:05FromGitter<Yardanico> https://github.com/dom96/choosenim/blob/9731196bb7a87d69d3ac6018fff92c1990a49c4d/src/choosenim.nims#L1
20:26:13FromGitter<Yardanico> so it uses curl only for macOS
20:27:05FromGitter<Yardanico> I just think that http proxy support should be added to httpclient, not to choosenim
20:27:24FromGitter<Yardanico> but my opinion might be wrong :)
20:28:12federico3+1
20:28:36FromGitter<Yardanico> if it will be done, it should be made optional, but enabled by default :)
20:28:39shashlickyardanico: looks like proxy is already supported by httpclient
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20:28:53FromGitter<Yardanico> well I mean proxy from environment variables
20:28:59FromGitter<Yardanico> I know that proxies are supported by httpclient
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20:29:56shashlickI see what you mean
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20:30:20FromGitter<Yardanico> we really need someone to make requests- like library :P
20:30:38federico3and the socks proxy variable applies to more than httpclient
20:31:33FromGitter<data-man> @Yardanico: What will not be portabled? GCC-plugins, are written in nim? ⏎ I assume that GCC is better parses c/c++ code, and write a complete c/c++ parser is a very hard task. ⏎ And using the GCC-plugin API you get access to a AST.
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20:32:25FromGitter<Yardanico> @data-man I mean that c2nim can work anywhere
20:32:28FromGitter<Yardanico> you don't need GCC for it
20:32:37FromGitter<Yardanico> and it would be better to use clang API
20:32:45FromGitter<Yardanico> since it's more modern and easier to use :)
20:32:55FromGitter<Yardanico> but still, c2nim can be compiled with any C compiler Nim suports
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20:37:12FromGitter<Yardanico> for C you only need to port https://github.com/eliben/pycparser to Nim :P
20:37:32FromGitter<Yardanico> I think that C is much easier to parse than C++
20:40:04FromGitter<data-man> No matter , what api, it's just an idea about converting c ++ code to Nim. :)
20:42:21FromGitter<Yardanico> I think that in future nim should really use LLVM :)
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20:42:38FromGitter<Yardanico> for nim 2.0 :P
20:44:13FromGitter<alehander42> oh no :( :D
20:45:23FromGitter<Yardanico> well there's already a LLVM backend for nim
20:45:29FromGitter<alehander42> if nim gets popular enough, inevitably somebody will write a llvm backend, but I like how simpler is the current one
20:45:33FromGitter<Yardanico> but it's done by only one person and it's not official
20:45:37FromGitter<alehander42> I thought the current llvm one is not maintained
20:45:41FromGitter<Yardanico> it is
20:45:47FromGitter<Yardanico> well it's still *maintained*
20:46:05FromGitter<Yardanico> e.g. I asked @arnetheduck about GCC 7 + nlvm, and he fixed the issue
20:46:43FromGitter<alehander42> but is it keeping up with newer features/changes ?
20:46:49FromGitter<alehander42> great , I should try it sometimes
20:46:58FromGitter<Yardanico> it's not
20:47:05FromGitter<Yardanico> since nim internals are changing sometimes
20:48:56FromGitter<data-man> Nim 5.0 - codegen written on pure Nim !
20:49:13FromGitter<Yardanico> it would recurse then
20:49:20FromGitter<alehander42> :D nim machines like the old lisp machines
20:49:48FromGitter<alehander42> I think in nim 7
20:50:13FromGitter<alehander42> araq will have evolved to a giant cloud and be able to compile and run most stuff parallelly in his head
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20:50:34FromGitter<Yardanico> well Nim 2.0 vs Nim 1.0 will be something like Python 3 vs Python 2, but changes will be even bigger
20:52:04FromGitter<Yardanico> IIRC Araq wants to remove GC for Nim 2.0 :)
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20:56:58FromGitter<Yardanico> also I found that Araq was talking about some native backend for Nim (on the forum)
20:57:02FromGitter<Yardanico> in 2014-2015
21:00:09FromGitter<alehander42> what do you mean by native ? (the current one sounds as native as it can get )
21:00:19FromGitter<Yardanico> @alehander42 I don't know
21:00:39FromGitter<Yardanico> https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/480#2544
21:00:46FromGitter<Yardanico> "We have a native backend in the works but it's not based on LLVM."
21:02:48FromGitter<alehander42> hmm directly generating assembler/machine code?
21:02:57FromGitter<Yardanico> it was probably abandoned in favour of C and C++
21:02:57elroodalehander42: some people say currently nim only is a transpiler, transforming one language (nim) into another (c) and requiring a real compiler to generate native code. you wouldn't want to be caught saying that too loud in here.. ;)
21:04:02FromGitter<alehander42> if only writing a c to asm compiler wasn't actually way easier :D (do I receive a candy now!)
21:06:08FromGitter<Yardanico> it seems that forum is not moderated sometimes :D https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/3081
21:13:50FromGitter<data-man> Then any compiler is a transpiler, transforming one language (any) into machine code. :)
21:14:27FromGitter<Yardanico> yes, that's why everyone should use "compiler"
21:16:14elroodnim's bdfl would like your argumentation, data-man ;) the distinction is the transformation from one high-level language to another instead of native code generation
21:16:42FromGitter<mratsim> Is there a way to get the Nim version in a package? seems like to make CI happy I need one codepath for devel and one for master with the [^1] changes
21:17:11FromGitter<Yardanico> @mratsim try to use NimVersion constant
21:17:49elroodand while calling nim's current implementation just a transpiler doesn't do it justice, it certainly dodges some complexity by utilizing other compilers for native code generation, and the dependency on other toolchains is an itch for some users
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21:24:19FromGitter<data-man> @elrood: We can assume that machine code is a language that the processor understands. ⏎ All programming languages are invented only for human convenience.
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21:25:28FromGitter<mratsim> Well, many languages depends on LLVM, and most of the complains due to that is that compilation is slow and LLVM lacks exotic targets
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21:55:01shodan45nim won't be complete until it can output JVM bytecode ;)
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21:56:48federico3wat?
21:56:49Araqelrood: producing C code is more complex than producing ASM. ok, producing *optimized* asm is much much harder
21:57:23Araqbut nobody argues for efficient asm code for this compiler vs transpiler question
21:59:41elroodi know, you don't have to convince me. and nim works quite fine as it is. the point is nim's implementation isn't a full-blown independent compiler. whether this is an issue, an implementation detail or completely irrelevant lies in the eye of the beholder
21:59:42Araqtranspiler is an ugly word with no real meaning.
22:00:29Araqnlvm targets LLVM, is that a "real" compiler then? are people aware of how close LLVM bitcode is to C?
22:02:40FromGitter<data-man> Haha, to a point! :)
22:05:15shodan45Araq: if it's that close, then it shouldn't be hard to generate it directly.... :P
22:05:39Araqshodan45: it is not hard, nlvm does that
22:05:51*shodan45 googles nlvm
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22:06:11Araqit's the Nim frontend and the C backend was adapted to produce LLVM
22:07:49shodan45oh hah... all this time I was assuming that such a thing didn't exist
22:08:33FromGitter<Yardanico> It's *only* 3k lines
22:08:39FromGitter<Yardanico> But without comments :)
22:08:44elroodAraq, we've had this discussion a few times already, it's moot. we all know nim how well nim and its multi-step compilation process works in practice. for pretty much every nim user the additional steps and dependencies aren't really an issue
22:09:26FromGitter<Yardanico> You don't need to manage them by yourself
22:09:29Araqelrood: well it keeps coming up and I'm not talking to you only, but fair enough
22:09:43FromGitter<Yardanico> For example choosenim downloads all needed stuff
22:09:54FromGitter<Yardanico> Including C compiler
22:10:38federico3thanks to gcc Nim generates fast code and for more architectures than Go and Rust. Generating C is a feature, not a bug.
22:10:47elroodfor some potential users nim's reliance on a completely independent toolchain is a turn-off though, and an argument not to consider nim seriously
22:14:08shodan45might be fun to have a competition to see who can make the most pointless nim backend
22:14:41FromGitter<data-man> There's also TinyCC backend, and I'm sure that someday it will work.
22:14:49federico3elrood: nothing wrong with having multiple backends including a native one
22:14:57FromGitter<Yardanico> @data-man hmm no
22:15:21FromGitter<Yardanico> I think that C backend already supports TCC
22:15:25FromGitter<mratsim> Sim Nim “optimizations” are intriguing:
22:15:30FromGitter<Yardanico> Toy can try it yourself
22:15:34FromGitter<mratsim> (https://files.gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim/EIoj/2017-11-01_23-14-48.png)
22:15:45shodan45http://beza1e1.tuxen.de/articles/accidentally_turing_complete.html
22:15:55FromGitter<Yardanico> @mratsim what's bad here?
22:16:00shodan45(potential new nim backends)
22:16:19FromGitter<mratsim> double “no” when comparing to 0
22:16:24FromGitter<mratsim> not*
22:16:56FromGitter<Yardanico> Well it will be optimized by a C compiler
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22:17:25FromGitter<mratsim> yes I know (unless it’s TCC ;) )
22:17:26FromGitter<Yardanico> It's not really an issue
22:17:34elroodfederico3, of course not, the more the merrier, and the js backend is a good step in that regard. my only worry in this context is that nim's implementation and some decisions in its design might rely to heavily on being compiled via c
22:17:40FromGitter<Yardanico> Well you don't use TCC if you need speed :)
22:18:10FromGitter<Yardanico> elrood: nlvm already works
22:18:23FromGitter<Yardanico> So it means that LLVM can be used for Nim too
22:20:16shodan45what about http://sdcc.sourceforge.net/ ?
22:20:43shodan45IIRC that's the only open source C compiler that targets PIC microcontrollers
22:21:06shodan45(I don't use PICs for just that reason)
22:22:51federico3Nim runs on AVRs. Never tried PICs
22:25:17Araqmratsim: !! can also be produced by hand written C code via #defines
22:25:37Araqand so C compilers can handle it, maybe even TCC
22:26:51AraqNim optimizes things that matter instead and yes sometimes fails (genericReset)
22:27:17Araqand now tell me what happened with the baby
22:27:33Araqthey used to have one, right?
22:28:23Araqdid it die? now it's about Rick vs Negan and the baby just disappeared
22:31:09elroodYardanico: https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/1955/3 haven't tried nlvm lately, if the mentioned issues have been solved, great. i do have some doubts still though
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22:34:56FromGitter<data-man> @Yardanico: TCC is currently used as an external C-compiler. But libtcc can be used as a built-in C-scripting engine without a obj-files generation.
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22:47:55FromGitter<i64> hello. c2nim seems to skip forward type declarations. Does nim support it?
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22:53:17FromGitter<i64> perhaps i'm in the wrong timezone :)
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22:54:52couven92i64, probably :D I'd like to help, but I honestly don't know how to forward declare
22:55:33couven92And here it's nearing midnight, so I don't dare to speculate anymore, I'm about 2 minutes away from collapsing into my bed :P
22:56:08FromGitter<i64> the doc mention forward declare for procs but not types
22:56:31couven92forward declare types?
22:56:34couven92why?
22:56:51couven92ah! put all types you're declaring into one big type section
22:57:06couven92then the order does not matter
22:57:22FromGitter<i64> ah. will try it. how did you find that out?
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22:57:37couven92i64 I ran into that some weeks ago
22:57:56FromGitter<i64> have a couple of structs in c header that refers to each other
22:57:58couven92and someone here told me that one type section works
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22:58:13FromGitter<i64> nice. ok thanks
22:58:29couven92i64 yeah, that was my use-case as well... trying to importc Windows COM interfaces to Nim
22:58:37*couven92 shudders
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