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| 04:45:58 | AlexLibman | "X times faster" language leads to error. Best to say "uses X% CPU time". And even that can lead to error on multicore systems... |
| 04:49:47 | AlexLibman | Speaking of optimization... A lot of programs I'm thinking of would use a lot of data, one example being a rewrite of http://nut.sourceforge.net/ , but with more nutrition data and filtering features (ex. cheapest sources of potassium-sodium*1.5). |
| 04:51:03 | AlexLibman | It would probably be based on SQLite, and the vast majority of its processing power would be used by SQLite over a read-only database. (Data could be updated by a different program via incrimental binary patches.) |
| 04:52:12 | AlexLibman | The SQL version could be the "debug" version, but the "production" version doesn't need the overhead of SQL query parsing or the added overhead of SQLite functionality that the program doesn't use. |
| 04:54:26 | AlexLibman | We're talking futurism here, but an ideal high-productivity language that generates "lean mean" fast-as-C binaries could have the functionality of generating "lean mean" binary datafiles / index files, and the C code for accessing them most efficiently. |
| 04:56:47 | AlexLibman | Just a long-term feature idea... |
| 05:30:18 | * | nolan1 joined #nimrod |
| 05:52:35 | shevy | hmm |
| 05:52:41 | shevy | where is my dom96! |
| 05:52:48 | shevy | oh rking is here |
| 05:52:51 | shevy | rking, you write in nimrod? |
| 06:10:03 | rking | Hehe, nope. I like the idea though. |
| 06:24:34 | AlexLibman | Same here. |
| 06:48:29 | * | silven joined #nimrod |
| 08:00:43 | reactormonk | AlexLibman, time is 5x lower. |
| 11:20:25 | dom96 | hi shevy :) |
| 11:29:51 | dom96 | Interesting: http://www.pltgames.com/ |
| 12:11:32 | AlexLibman | Mildly interesting, but so far their competitions had little relation to what I can admire about a language. |
| 12:12:20 | AlexLibman | Scoring highly in performance and code briefness benchmarks is far more important. |
| 12:13:50 | dom96 | true. Their competitions kind of end up with esoteric languages I think. |
| 12:13:57 | * | AlexLibman hopes someone will eventually comment on my datafile idea above, and if such productivity/performance boosting feature ideas would be considered in long-term future Nimrod development. |
| 12:18:17 | dom96 | I wish I could answer that, but I have no idea. I'm not sure how you plan to have the language generate binary data files? You could accomplish that with macros I guess. |
| 12:19:12 | dom96 | or do you mean the binary that is generated by Nimrod will be able to generate binary data files? well, I don't see any reason it couldn't. |
| 13:03:19 | * | q66 joined #nimrod |
| 13:26:24 | AlexLibman | Not the language, but an accompanying tool, like sqlite2bin. The language would just replace SQL statements with efficient C code to read the binary data. |
| 13:30:21 | AlexLibman | With this feature, Nimrod programs could be faster than C+SQLite ones, and easier to develop than handcrafted code to deal with random-access binary datafiles. |
| 13:32:26 | * | Araq_ joined #nimrod |
| 13:35:07 | Araq_ | AlexLibman: not much time here, but the stdlib already has an sql parser that works with a bit of luck at compile time |
| 13:35:33 | Araq_ | and then you can indeed use macro to do these sql2whatever transformations |
| 13:36:16 | Araq_ | however, I don't think you would gain much but that |
| 13:36:29 | AlexLibman | Interesting. I'll study what exists a bit later. |
| 13:36:50 | Araq_ | you still have all the marshalling overhead to the SQL data model |
| 13:37:32 | AlexLibman | With good old binary datafiles and specialized code to access them it's more efficient. |
| 13:38:00 | AlexLibman | (For simple applications that just need to read lots of data in predictable ways, no need for ACID and advanced DB features.) |
| 13:38:08 | Araq_ | instead the stdlib should include a module to implement database-like stuff easily |
| 13:38:23 | Araq_ | we already have nice support for memory mapped files in the stdlib |
| 13:38:55 | AlexLibman | OK, I don't want to hold you up. We can talk about this later. Just an idea. |
| 13:39:19 | Araq_ | and recently I found out how to do binary encodings efficiently ;-) |
| 13:41:24 | Araq_ | see you later |
| 13:42:48 | AlexLibman | A lot of server-side apps interact with SQL databases. If we could find a way to "compile" those into C code specialized to their SQL statements, it would be a "killer app" feature for Nimrod. It would be the faster and lighter than even C+SQLite. |
| 13:44:39 | AlexLibman | SQL is designed for flexibility and does a lot of overhead. If we could optimize each data access algorithm at compile time and also generate binary data files optimized for how they're accessed, it could be significantly faster. |
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| 13:48:48 | Zor | most experienced people I know who work with SQL on a daily basis and on a large scale would hate something like that |
| 13:49:07 | Zor | they want the SQL they write, and nothing else, because they know what they're doing (also the reason they avoid ORMs like the plague) |
| 14:16:13 | Trixar_za | Personally I think SQL is similar to dealing with any protocol (for example FTP) |
| 14:16:34 | Trixar_za | No matter how fancy the way you deal with it, underneath it's still the same |
| 16:16:05 | AlexLibman | Sure, many people don't like innovations that threaten their job security. :P |
| 16:16:47 | AlexLibman | SQL was created for corporate bureaucracy, flexibility, and compatibility. When building an app that accesses local data, priorities are very different. |
| 16:18:18 | AlexLibman | The ideal may be to use a RDBMS to put together the data, but what I'm proposing would be ideal for app deployment. |
| 16:19:06 | AlexLibman | Especially in situations where data doesn't change during runtime. (i.e. datafiles can be updated with binary diffs) |
| 17:04:29 | nolan1 | Can Nimrod's FFI access C++ libraries? Or, more directly, has anyone written a QT binding? |
| 17:04:43 | * | nolan1 ponders Nimrod on Ubuntu for Phones. |
| 17:07:05 | dom96 | It can, yes. A QT binding hasn't been written yet though. |
| 17:07:49 | nolan1 | Is that something C2Nim can do, or are there other tools for C++? |
| 17:08:48 | dom96 | I don't think so no. c2nim only supports C currently. |
| 17:09:04 | nolan1 | Thought so but wanted to check. Thanks. |
| 17:11:02 | dom96 | nolan1: If you want some examples of how to write C++ bindings take a look at https://github.com/Araq/Nimrod/blob/master/examples/c%2B%2Biface/irrlichtex.nim or fowl_'s sfml bindings: https://github.com/fowlmouth/nimrod-sfml/blob/master/sfml.nim |
| 17:11:25 | nolan1 | Thanks, will do. |
| 18:09:11 | * | gradha joined #nimrod |
| 18:13:11 | gradha | in this plt games compo, what does plt stand for? |
| 18:23:11 | dom96 | That's a good question |
| 18:25:25 | gradha | somebody mentioned in the past http://this-plt-life.tumblr.com, not sure if that's the same meaning but I don't know either what PLT means there |
| 18:34:23 | gradha | You know you should stop reading a wikipedia entry about a book when you read "This crucial turning point in the plot also..." |
| 18:35:13 | gradha | even the crappiest fan blogs/wikis have spoiler warnings, I guess that's too low for wikipedia |
| 18:53:17 | Araq | ok so libffi needs mingw and some posix shell to build it on windows |
| 18:53:51 | Araq | but if I add the built DLL to the git repository for convenience people will complain |
| 18:54:07 | Araq | "thou shalt not add a binary file to git" |
| 18:54:23 | Araq | so any good solutions to this problem? |
| 18:54:55 | gradha | you could try adding a submodule and put the binary in the submodule, they don't get downloaded by default |
| 18:55:13 | Araq | submodules are crap, I'll never use them again |
| 18:55:43 | Araq | I think I'll do what I always do and ignore the git nazis ... |
| 19:00:55 | gradha | those git nazis, they have gh-pages branches on their repos? |
| 19:02:34 | Araq | what are gh-pages branches? |
| 19:03:02 | gradha | github offers a pages mechanism were you build a website for your repo through a gh-pages branch |
| 19:03:18 | gradha | so you put there all your binaries... but it's actually the same repo as your sourcecode |
| 19:03:49 | gradha | http://pages.github.com |
| 19:10:08 | Araq | well I suppose the github guys don't know how to operate git |
| 19:10:31 | Araq | git doesn't like binary files |
| 19:11:09 | Araq | there is some special logic in git detecting binary from text files and then git turns into a "dislike" mood |
| 19:11:55 | gradha | does it grumble on the commit or something like that? |
| 19:11:59 | Araq | git disagrees with unix on this point, on unix there is no difference between a text file and a binary file |
| 19:12:08 | Araq | *for unix |
| 19:13:44 | Araq | and then there are even crazier people who say it's all a stream of bytes anyway |
| 19:14:20 | Araq | and that "binary" is all you can get on a computer |
| 19:16:06 | gradha | that's like a posix filesystem, the names of the files are 255 bytes. Yeah, but what encoding? What, encoding? what do you mean? It's all bytes! |
| 19:16:26 | gradha | I still remember going from latin1 to utf8 |
| 19:16:59 | gradha | it felt so exciting back then, now it looks so silly |
| 19:20:27 | shevy | hey Araq |
| 19:20:31 | shevy | had a look at https://github.com/munificent/vigil yet? |
| 19:20:41 | shevy | "Vigil is very similar to Python" |
| 19:20:48 | shevy | "Vigil is truly vigilant about not allowing code that fails to pass programmatic specifications" |
| 19:20:51 | shevy | very odd :D |
| 19:21:21 | shevy | I argued in #ruby about testing code. i.e. if you add a big test suite, you lose a lot of the advantages of dynamic languages - i.e. speed of coding |
| 19:21:58 | gradha | shevy: that only happens if you are the guy writing the test suite |
| 19:22:05 | Araq | what do you mean shevy? that test suites need to maintained too? o.O |
| 19:22:17 | Araq | that tests have to change and adapt? |
| 19:22:46 | shevy | Araq mostly that it costs time to add (or come close to) a 100% test suite |
| 19:23:02 | Araq | blasphemy |
| 19:23:05 | shevy | when I started with ruby in 2004, testing was not so much emphasized |
| 19:23:50 | shevy | gradha yeah, but now... if I have to add tests for all my projects since 2004... that will take me many, many hours :( |
| 19:25:17 | Araq | that's why you shouldn't do it ;-) |
| 19:26:29 | Araq | nobody seriously argues for dynamic typing and correctness at the same time |
| 19:26:44 | gradha | Araq: can't google anything about git disliking binaries, found some "git is good storing binaries", plus the only alternatives suggested are git-submodule or http://git-annex.branchable.com |
| 19:27:12 | gradha | maybe I woke up in the wrong universe |
| 19:28:11 | Araq | gradha: you care way too much about facts, git nazis don't |
| 19:29:13 | gradha | is the dll required before koch is ready or would it be possible to teach koch to download the dll on windows? |
| 19:31:17 | gradha | I can share some dropbox space if you are interested, though I've heard dropbox disables accounts temporarily based on bandwidth, and seeing how nimrod is the rage this days... |
| 19:31:20 | Araq | the later |
| 19:49:31 | Araq | actually I'd concat libffi into one big .c file and {.compile.} that |
| 19:49:46 | Araq | so no DLL building would be necessary |
| 19:50:04 | Araq | but I think libFFI uses GNU's absurd inline assembler syntax |
| 19:50:14 | Araq | so it really only works with mingw ... |
| 20:34:30 | reactormonk | Araq, how come idetools doesn't prove the docstring? |
| 20:34:51 | Araq | you mean "provide"? |
| 20:35:05 | reactormonk | not returned by the suggestions |
| 20:37:26 | Araq | well I was lazy and the docstring can have newlines |
| 20:41:37 | reactormonk | \n |
| 20:44:30 | reactormonk | and methods are skMethod ? |
| 20:44:45 | Araq | yes |
| 20:45:01 | reactormonk | and enums skEnum? |
| 20:45:16 | reactormonk | or - just got a list of those for me? |
| 20:49:38 | Araq | sk + Keyword is it |
| 20:51:21 | reactormonk | I'm pretty sure I forget to mention at least two if I don't have a list :-/ |
| 20:52:34 | Araq | why is it important? |
| 20:54:17 | reactormonk | looks better. |
| 20:54:26 | Araq | here you go: skParam, # a parameter |
| 20:54:27 | Araq | skGenericParam, |
| 20:54:29 | Araq | skModule, # module identifier |
| 20:54:30 | Araq | skType, # a type |
| 20:54:32 | Araq | skVar, # a variable |
| 20:54:33 | Araq | skLet, # a 'let' symbol |
| 20:54:35 | Araq | skConst, # a constant |
| 20:54:36 | Araq | skResult, # special 'result' variable |
| 20:54:38 | Araq | skProc, # a proc |
| 20:54:39 | Araq | skMethod, # a method |
| 20:54:41 | Araq | skIterator, # an iterator |
| 20:54:42 | Araq | skConverter, # a type converter |
| 20:54:44 | Araq | skMacro, # a macro |
| 20:54:46 | Araq | skTemplate, |
| 20:54:47 | Araq | skField, # a field in a record or object |
| 20:54:49 | Araq | skEnumField, # an identifier in an enum |
| 20:54:50 | Araq | skForVar, # a for loop variable |
| 20:54:52 | Araq | skLabel, # a label (for block statement) |
| 21:03:41 | reactormonk | Thanks. |
| 21:13:52 | * | XAMPP joined #nimrod |
| 21:14:41 | gradha | what was the switch to tell nimrod the C compiler dump error messages? |
| 21:15:21 | gradha | i get only "Error: execution of an external program failed" |
| 21:15:38 | gradha | there was a switch to know what is being invoked "below" nimrod |
| 21:15:45 | gradha | or get its output |
| 21:15:58 | reactormonk | for a) there's --listCmd |
| 21:17:47 | Araq | it's --parallelBuild:1 |
| 21:17:54 | gradha | yes, that one |
| 21:18:02 | Araq | and somebody need to come up with a solution |
| 21:19:20 | gradha | yuck, use of undeclared identifier 'result_130643', let's see if I can make a test case |
| 21:22:44 | Araq | that looks like a codegen bug :-( |
| 21:26:36 | gradha | ok, there you have it http://pastebin.com/zHL6M99B |
| 21:27:01 | gradha | I also have problems trying to compile "echo repr(test.keys())" |
| 21:27:34 | reactormonk | gradha, you know there's a proc somewhere to do exactly that? |
| 21:30:29 | gradha | I believe I pulled a request to make toSeq public... where did it go? |
| 21:31:25 | Araq | I think you never pulled such a thing |
| 21:31:45 | gradha | indeed https://github.com/Araq/Nimrod/pull/296 |
| 21:32:38 | gradha | well, that's the least of my worries |
| 21:32:57 | gradha | I don't understand why the repr can't accept an interator, is that a bug or something not possible with repr? |
| 21:33:27 | Araq | have to take a look, it's a bug if the compiler does not complain |
| 21:33:42 | Araq | btw that's the 'result' bug |
| 21:33:50 | Araq | you have to change that template |
| 21:34:15 | Araq | get rid of the 'block' and use: var result {.gensym.}: ... instead |
| 21:34:57 | gradha | yes, that works |
| 21:35:57 | gradha | do I rewrite the pull with that? |
| 21:36:40 | Araq | yes please |
| 21:40:08 | gradha | done |
| 21:48:18 | AlexLibman | gradha: Reamde by Neal Stephenson? |
| 21:50:09 | gradha | yes, got a reference from somewhere |
| 21:52:12 | gradha | sounds like the book I will force my sister to read so she can tell me if it's any good |
| 21:53:30 | nolan1 | How closely is the TTypename convention followed? And why is it a convention to begin with? Seems like a bit of unnecessary ceremony. |
| 21:54:15 | reactormonk | nolan1, my point exactly ;-) I suppose the 'normalize identifiers' doesn't really help. |
| 21:55:00 | Araq | hey, I copied it from Delphi and couldn't imagine people would mind it |
| 21:55:05 | gradha | I follow the convention closely for code I want included in Nimrod |
| 21:55:21 | Araq | posix is full of type_t ... |
| 21:55:26 | nolan1 | Ah, OK, so no weird compiler issues or something if I ignore it... |
| 21:55:41 | nolan1 | I don't see it in any of the languages I use. |
| 21:55:59 | Araq | you'll get problems if you name your variables/parameters the same as the type and love metaprogramming |
| 21:56:21 | nolan1 | Also, what are the benefits of the result var vs. just returning the result of the last expression in a proc/method? |
| 21:56:39 | Araq | apart from that, I ensured that 'x: x' works reasonably well ... |
| 21:56:56 | nolan1 | Oh right, the case insensitivity. |
| 21:57:29 | Araq | nolan1: advantage is that Nimrod guarantees you the "named return value optimization" |
| 21:57:49 | nolan1 | Not familiar with that one. |
| 21:59:28 | AlexLibman | LOL@ vigil's "swear" and "implore"... Reminds me of a gag USB device that delivers increasing levels of electric shock to the user in case of input error. |
| 22:00:08 | Araq | nolan1: the T is in fact there to denote "value semantics" as opposed to a P |
| 22:01:26 | Araq | there are edge cases like any kind of handle where it doesn't work well, TSocket, TFile etc. ... but then maybe they should have been P |
| 22:01:55 | nolan1 | Need to refresh my memory of how values vs. pointers work. Seems though that the value would be the default case, so could just be Object, and the pointer would be non-standard and thus PObject. |
| 22:03:06 | nolan1 | Like, if I have an orange, then it's just an orange. It isn't an orange not in a container. But if I have an orange in a box, then it is a boxed orange. |
| 22:03:41 | nolan1 | But we don't qualify every object in the real world by stating "an uncontained ball, an uncontained cat," etc. |
| 22:04:06 | nolan1 | Unless it's my cat, in which case the qualifier is a warning... |
| 22:05:30 | reactormonk | Araq, or we could just use functional and don't care about value vs. pointer anymore *duck* |
| 22:06:45 | nolan1 | Anyhow, not a huge deal, and I probably won't use the conventions in my own code, they just struck me as a bit odd. |
| 22:07:32 | Araq | when I code and have efficiency in mind, my coding style for T is vastly different than for P |
| 22:07:40 | nolan1 | Also, it seems like the type system is in place to catch cases where a pointer is used instead of a value... |
| 22:07:57 | nolan1 | OK. |
| 22:07:59 | Araq | though granted, maybe the constant reminder is unnecessary |
| 22:08:32 | Araq | but then many people come from Java/C# and make P the default for everything |
| 22:09:04 | Araq | it often leads to simpler code and more familiar semantics |
| 22:09:25 | Araq | so I can't tell whether T or P is the default ... |
| 22:09:54 | nolan1 | Making P the default, or P/T? I'm from Scala and don't feel P/T is a familiar semantic. |
| 22:10:27 | * | nolan1 will look over that section of the tutorial again with this discussion in mind. |
| 22:11:59 | Araq | scala only has P for that matter |
| 22:12:44 | nolan1 | Right, but even in C I only have to qualify pointers, not their base types. |
| 22:12:54 | nolan1 | Or rather, add extra qualification to pointers... |
| 22:13:09 | Araq | and yet _t is very common in C :P |
| 22:15:10 | reactormonk | nolan1, I'm trying to adapt ensime for nimrod :-) |
| 22:17:24 | nolan1 | Cool. |
| 22:17:52 | reactormonk | nolan1, so I assume you're using emacs? |
| 22:18:17 | nolan1 | reactormonk: No, I still think it's a cool idea though. More choice is often a good thing. |
| 22:18:31 | reactormonk | nolan1, then go with aporia |
| 22:18:47 | nolan1 | I'll look into it, I typically just use Gedit. |
| 22:21:12 | reactormonk | nolan1, no idea what gedit can do. |
| 22:21:49 | Araq | you will love aporia then :-) |
| 22:25:57 | AlexLibman | Not many copyfree code editors out there, mainly because GTK/Qt/wx aren't (and GPL's psychological reach is much farther that its actual legal restriction). |
| 22:27:38 | gradha | what's the mit/bsd choice for GUI? |
| 22:28:39 | nolan1 | Also, how difficult is it to run the Nimrod interpreter in my code? Nimrod as a DSL looks promising, and it'd be neat if my apps could pull in a subset of Nimrod to evaluate at runtime. |
| 22:29:25 | nolan1 | It looks like the REPL tool might create a separate Nimrod process? |
| 22:31:57 | AlexLibman | We don't really have a good copyfree widget toolkit. There's Tcl's Tk, Lua-bound IUP, the U++ weirdness, and little else. |
| 22:33:22 | Araq | nolan1: I'm working on exactly this feature :-) |
| 22:33:29 | nolan1 | Awesome. |
| 22:33:46 | Araq | there will be a Nimrod interpreter in the stdlib |
| 22:34:01 | AlexLibman | Widgets are a bad idea anyway. There's the term console / textual interfaces, and the new alternative of HTML5+. http://bsd.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3348643&cid=42431429 |
| 22:35:28 | nolan1 | Nice. |
| 22:36:05 | AlexLibman | I've discovered that you can simulate spartan textual interfaces quite well in HTML5. Take away the graphics and the silly visual effects and focus on text, and in-browser interfaces become much less annoying. You can make them very keyboard-focused as well. |
| 22:36:29 | Araq | AlexLibman: html has a limited set of widgets and when you need a new one you're basically screwed |
| 22:36:38 | Araq | and need to use lots of JS |
| 22:36:42 | AlexLibman | I never use widgets. Only text. |
| 22:37:01 | Araq | what about a table with sorting features? |
| 22:37:20 | gradha | whats your opinion on schizofrenic licenses like http://www.freetype.org/license.html ? neither one nor the other? |
| 22:37:36 | AlexLibman | Links instead of buttons. Formatting effects for radio / checkbox buttons. Etc. |
| 22:37:51 | AlexLibman | Tables for data are OK. |
| 22:38:53 | AlexLibman | My "ANSI terminal nostalgia" approach to HTML5 really changed how I feel about in-browser apps. |
| 22:39:37 | nolan1 | I'd like to see someone adapt a MUD codebase to HTML |
| 22:40:03 | nolan1 | Accept input from the browser, output results into the page, no more need for telnet or clients. |
| 22:40:27 | nolan1 | Slowly progressively enhance the interface. Might breathe a bit of new life into MUDs. |
| 22:40:28 | AlexLibman | gradha: it complicates things and confuses people. When a copyfree and a non-copyfree licenses are in an OR relationship over the entirety of the code, then it's really the same thing as it being copyfree. It's like someone putting you in prison but leaving the door unlocked. |
| 22:41:24 | AlexLibman | MUDs are more scrolling-console oriented. My HTML5 apps tend to resemble DOS apps that have a menu on top. |
| 22:42:03 | AlexLibman | Like Turbo Pascal, Norton Commander / FAR, etc. |
| 22:43:01 | AlexLibman | gradha: the problem with mentioning two licenses is you have to investigate what their relationship and code coverage is. Take WebKit or Transmission for example: some parts are under one license, other parts are under a different license... |
| 22:43:59 | * | AlexLibman wonders if a source code file could switch licenses in the middle of the file... |
| 22:44:34 | gradha | nimrod's eval could switch at runtime then |
| 22:47:29 | AlexLibman | Licenses take all the joy out of being a FLOSS programmer. |
| 22:49:22 | Araq | AlexLibman: it's not that bad if you don't spend your life philosophizing about licenses ;-) |
| 22:50:01 | AlexLibman | When someone uses a license like BSD (the new one obviously) / MIT / ISC / CC0, that's as simple as it gets. (Because some crazy places don't recognize "public domain".) When you have something like http://www.freetype.org/license.html , it's just a pain in the butt for everybody. |
| 22:50:20 | gradha | I thought support/maintenance takes all the joy out of being any programmer |
| 22:51:26 | AlexLibman | Araq: it's a means to an end. I want to come up with a software stack that doesn't "hail marx" behind my back. Then I won't have to worry about licenses and just be a developer again. |
| 23:20:22 | reactormonk | AlexLibman, wait, I'll make a pull request so the compiler prints 'hail marx' upon successful compilation :> |
| 23:22:11 | AlexLibman | Under Marxism, all compilation would be planned in advance by the proletariat. |
| 23:22:57 | AlexLibman | Compilers would only run on a central mainframe in Moscow, to prevent Enemies Of The Revolution from using them. |
| 23:23:16 | reactormonk | AlexLibman, planning ahead? Even capitalism, which has somewhat of a better motivation, can't get people to plan ahead. |
| 23:23:45 | AlexLibman | Yes, but Marxism is magic. It'll work this time for sure! :P |
| 23:24:23 | Araq | marxism really does work, it's just that all the people who tried it did it wrongly :P |
| 23:24:25 | AlexLibman | It didn't work the last 1000 times it was tried, in many variations, because the Central Planners didn't have Nimrod. |
| 23:24:52 | Araq | marxism reminds of C programming ... |
| 23:25:09 | AlexLibman | So they couldn't write elegant and efficient programs to calculate how much caviar to import into your local district... |
| 23:25:35 | Araq | it would work if only people would constantly think about the 260 different cases of undefined behaviour |
| 23:26:46 | AlexLibman | Marxism is a C program where (void*) point at each-other in an endless blame-game. |
| 23:27:44 | Araq | maybe the guy was right who compared OOP to communism ... |
| 23:31:25 | reactormonk | Araq, works fine in theory? |
| 23:32:14 | Araq | "Communism also looked good in theory, but its base assumptions about human nature and change patterns missed their mark." |
| 23:32:32 | AlexLibman | Can we name Nimrod's GC after Mario Terán, the dope who shot Che Guevara? :P |
| 23:33:22 | Araq | no because nobody knows "Mario Teran" and the name doesn't sound cool either |
| 23:33:28 | AlexLibman | Read 19th century Austrian economists -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_School -- communism never looked good in theory either. |
| 23:33:51 | Araq | yeah after I read it again, I don't like the quote |
| 23:33:56 | AlexLibman | Teran is a great name for a garbage collector. |
| 23:34:22 | Araq | why? |
| 23:34:52 | AlexLibman | Sounds brutal - to the garbage of course. Free the mallocs! |
| 23:36:10 | reactormonk | \o/ http://ompldr.org/vZ3huOQ |
| 23:37:04 | dom96 | Damn, that looks nicer than Aporia's. Nice job :P |
| 23:37:13 | reactormonk | dom96, the auto-complete part was auto-complete.el |
| 23:37:21 | reactormonk | I only provided the information |
| 23:37:40 | dom96 | ahh, well still. |
| 23:37:44 | dom96 | Good work. |
| 23:38:30 | reactormonk | http://sprunge.us/cXBB <- not sure about this. This is the one-char stuff at the right, according to http://cx4a.org/software/auto-complete/manual.html#symbol |
| 23:39:23 | AlexLibman | Blehmacs. |
| 23:39:25 | reactormonk | dom96, even completion with prefixes works \o/ |
| 23:39:29 | reactormonk | ... but it's buggy. |
| 23:39:48 | dom96 | with prefixes? what do you mean? |
| 23:42:25 | reactormonk | http://ompldr.org/vZ3huZQ |
| 23:44:02 | reactormonk | dom96, a rather wierd two-screen setup, see right one. |
| 23:46:23 | dom96 | reactormonk: Does the compiler give you those suggestions? |
| 23:46:44 | reactormonk | dom96, yes |
| 23:47:23 | reactormonk | actually... nope. |
| 23:47:32 | reactormonk | it uses the old ones at that point I think |
| 23:48:00 | reactormonk | I think I have a timing problem here |
| 23:49:16 | dom96 | I see. |
| 23:51:02 | reactormonk | shouldn't be that hard of a problem to fix this |
| 23:51:50 | reactormonk | then I can do fancy stuff like adding a for around if you complete an iterator ^^ |
| 23:54:51 | reactormonk | dom96, still not sure how to handle overloads |
| 23:55:49 | dom96 | I haven't solved that for Aporia either, in fact I haven't even thought about it. |
| 23:56:25 | reactormonk | dom96, I might be using yasnippet for that, so there's a snippet for each function with () and shit |
| 23:57:45 | dom96 | Let me know how it goes. |
| 23:57:49 | dom96 | I must go to sleep now. |
| 23:57:51 | dom96 | Good night |
| 23:57:56 | reactormonk | cya |