<< 03-09-2016 >>
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08:11:15FromGitter<Araq> @endragor I consider upcoming/asyncdispatch the future and once our forum runs with it, dom will hopefully agree it's stable enough :-)
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08:34:02cheatfateAraq, i want to adopt async tests to run with `upcoming/asyncdispatch.nim` too, is it possible to do it in easy way?
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08:35:01Araqthat's why we have test categories
08:35:10Araqyou need to update the tester
08:35:28Araqand specialize category 'async' or whatever the directory name is
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08:40:06cheatfateMain idea is to use same `tests/async` for both drivers (because they are compatible), but for `upcoming` version i need to `patchFile`
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08:48:10cheatfatei want to place 1 nimscript to `tests/async` directory with patchFile inside
08:48:32cheatfateBut for current version i need to disable nims file for directory `tests/async`
08:49:30cheatfateAraq, the question is how nims file must be named so it will be used for all tests inside of `tests/async` and what options for nim must be used (skipCfg, skipUserCfg, skipParentCfg, skipProjCfg)?
08:49:58Araqconfig.nims
08:51:16AraqI don't think the skip stuff works for nimscript, have a 'when not defined(oldasync)' in the config.nims that you pass to the compiler via -d:oldasync
08:51:28Araqto get back the old tests
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08:55:04cheatfateok thanks
09:22:16cheatfateAraq, config.nim must be place inside of `tests/async` directory?
09:22:21cheatfateconfig.nims
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09:38:32cheatfateAraq, is it normal config.nims file? https://gist.github.com/cheatfate/c4ca7a85c6ce54982ed79e6ce8fb774b
09:40:03cheatfatebecause i'm getting Error: internal error: (filename: sempass2.nim, line: 546)
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09:43:50cheatfatemaybe something wrong with upcoming/asyncdispatch.nim (https://gist.github.com/cheatfate/f2a85e49d361b528fd723d6cae61dadf)
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09:58:07cheatfatelooks like my latest changes made this
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10:57:56cheatfatedom96, is it possible to move async macro code away from asyncdispatch.nim, so current version and upcoming version can `include asyncmacro.nim`?
10:59:43Araqcheatfate: yeah, do that
11:00:17Araqthe internal error is weird
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11:02:24dom96cheatfate: go for it
11:03:14cheatfateAraq, dom96 could i make async directory and put there asyncdispatch.nim and asyncmacro.nim?
11:03:42dom96cheatfate: for now keep it as-is, eventually I think we should do that though
11:05:31Araqdoes that internal error block you?
11:05:47Araqif so how to reproduce? just add config.nims with this content?
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12:12:46retropikzelHow can I check if variable is string?
12:17:42retropikzelNevermind, found it
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12:40:51FromGitter<vegansk> @dom96, @Araq . Why if it's
12:41:28dom96vegansk: hrm?
12:42:10FromGitter<vegansk> Oops. If it' s possible, please make a decision about async operations with buffers until monday
12:42:52FromGitter<vegansk> It' s very important for my work
12:47:15FromGitter<vegansk> Sorry, writing from the phone
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13:41:29hohlerdejust saw the screenshot of that unreal 4 game in production using nim instead of c++ on youtube. araq showed it at the poly conf 16. is that screenshot available for download?
13:42:57Araqhohlerde: my slides are here https://github.com/araq/polyconf2016 including the screenshot
13:46:32hohlerdeoh, I could have guessed :-) thx araq
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14:01:21FromGitter<Araq> @vegansk, @dom96 'pointer' is the natural Nim solution and slightly better than 'cstring' since indeed cstring kinda implies "zero terminated"
14:01:58FromGitter<Araq> that said, we should have an heapAddr template and a distinct pointer for async
14:02:19FromGitter<Araq> this can check at runtime the address is not from the stack
14:02:28dom96Araq: okay, would it make sense to abstract this into a DataPair tuple (which is a pointer + length)?
14:03:01FromGitter<Araq> seems harder to work with
14:03:25dom96yeah, I guess it's not worth it. Might confuse people.
14:03:31FromGitter<Araq> if you slice and dice through something, wrapping the updated pointers , lengths in a tuple all over
14:03:48FromGitter<Araq> than I think the tuple will bite rather than help
14:03:52FromGitter<Araq> *then
14:04:13dom96It would be nice for pointer artithmetic though maybe?
14:04:31dom96I'm not really sure what you mean by "slice and dice"
14:04:34Araqhmm that's worth considering
14:04:51Araqso when I add 4 to the pointer, the length gets decremented by 4 as well?
14:04:52dom96You could also do stuff like dataPair[2 .. 4]
14:05:12Araqok, but then it's an ArrayView I guess
14:05:14dom96but then the dataPair needs to also know the size of the thing
14:05:25dom96or rather the size of each element
14:05:40Araqtrue
14:05:59dom96I think that would be nice
14:06:24dom96For the FFI at least
14:06:30Araqactually no.
14:06:38dom96for normal usage we shouldn't need 'pointer' at all IMO
14:06:41Araqthe size should be 1 since it's about bytes
14:06:52dom96so if vendask is using it for efficiency we need to come up with a way to achieve the same in pure NIm
14:07:22dom96*vendansk
14:07:23AraqI planned to make openArray a first class thing eventually
14:07:42Araqgiving us O(1) slicing and stuff
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14:08:05dom96hrm, okay. Not entirely sure how that would work
14:08:17dom96Seems like a different topic
14:08:37Araqno, openArray is internally a ptr, len pair
14:08:53Araqit's exactly what we're talking about
14:10:04dom96Cool. You should rename it though
14:10:44AraqArrayView ?
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14:12:31dom96sure
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14:38:49mccIs there an existing way to control what "echo" does?
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14:39:35reactormonkWhat do you want to have it do?
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14:40:41mccwell, i'm using javascript
14:40:59mccand right now, "echo" on javascript uses document.write or something
14:41:12mcchowever, document.write does not exist in node, and i want it to use console.log instead (which matches the documentation in system)
14:41:54reactormonkPretty sure there's a compiler flag for that specific bit.
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14:42:05reactormonktry -d:node or -d:nodejs, can't remember which one
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14:43:50mccooo
14:44:28mccok, yeah, found that in the docs
14:44:57mccdo you know if that changes anything other than just "echo"? because actually i tend to want echo to use console.log in browsers, also
14:45:32mccthe problem is when writing things in nim that work across multiple platforms
14:45:51mccit's not super obvious to me how to write a wrapper for echo
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14:54:55mccok cool it seems to work in browser also
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15:57:08krux02dom96, Araq: Yes I totally support the ArrayView type
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15:58:29krux02I also have my own version of it in my codebase, and I would be very happy If I could kick it out and have a standard implementation of it
16:01:04krux02it's here if you care: https://github.com/krux02/opengl-sandbox/blob/1ca4182a5a1e13675aff36c5f9171f1bd3c611a9/glwrapper.nim#L257
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16:39:19PMunchIs there a limit to how much a table can hold?
16:41:39PMunchI'm trying to add something to one and after quite a few entries I get an index out of bounds error from system.nim
16:41:55PMunchSeems like it isn't able to enlarge the underlying data structure
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16:42:20PMunchWeird part is that I don't even have that many entries in it
16:44:31PMunchJust added a printout of the size, it's only 43 entries in the table..
16:47:46dom96are you sure it's the table that's failing?
16:48:25PMunchpastebin.com/uansNXdp
16:48:35PMunchThat's the error message
16:48:52PMunchThe line 59 in the code is a simple add statement
16:49:09PMunchatlas.regions.add(curName, newTextureRegion(texture,curRegion,curSize,curOffset,curRotation))
16:49:29dom96please add http:// before your links so that my IRC client makes it clickable :)
16:50:36dom96hrm, 'add'? Have you tried just ...regions[curName] = newTex...?
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16:55:07PMunchOh, sorry about that. Vivaldi removes it so when I go to copy-paste it doesn't come with..
16:55:45PMunchHmm, that seemed to work
16:55:51PMunchUsing []=
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16:59:45dom96so now the question is wtf is 'add'
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17:07:46PMunchI though []= was just an alias for add
17:08:21PMunchhttp://nim-lang.org/docs/tables.html#[]=,Table[A,B],A,B
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17:13:59krux02I would like to have `+=` `*=` etc defined to work with the `[]=` operator generally when `*` `+` etc is defined. But I haven't put a lot of investigation itno weather a definition like that could breake anything
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17:18:30Araqdom96: 'add' adds a fresh key,val pair independent of whether t[key] already exists
17:19:06Araqsince hashing always needs to have some way to resolve hash collisions anyway, it seems smart to support this op out of the box
17:19:32Araq(plus it's just natural for a guy implementing a compiler which supports overloading)
17:21:04krux02does that mean, that add can create the same key several times?
17:21:28PMunchSo what crashes my program then?
17:23:46Araqdunno, posted some example code somewhere?
17:23:55Araqkrux02: sure
17:24:06PMunchNot really
17:24:32PMunchI posted the error message and all I do is run a .add on a key I'm sure doesn't already exist
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17:30:01PMunchI can give you the code if you want Araq
17:31:00PMunchHmm, does Nim have something like foreach?
17:31:57Araqsure I want the code
17:31:59PMunchAh, for x in
17:33:20cheatfateAraq, about name for you openArray, let call it `buffer`.
17:33:22PMunchpastebin.com/5YjhC8yw
17:33:41PMunchThat's the code, it's currently modified to use []= and not add
17:34:37cheatfateor at least `openBuffer`
17:34:48cheatfatei dont like `arrayView`
17:35:02PMunchIt's the lines 58-66
17:35:23mccarrayview means something in js...
17:36:12mccso this is kind of random, but has there ever been consideration of adding something like class statics to nim?
17:36:40mcci'm wondering about this cuz i'm working on binding javascript to nim, and js has statics
17:37:02mccand i was thinking, it would make sense, there's this syntax where obj.func(arg) translates to func(obj, arg)
17:37:20mcci was wondering if it would make equal sense, if you did that to a type, for the left of the . to become a generic/type argument
17:37:29mcclike, Type.func(arg) could become func[Type](arg)
17:38:24AraqType.func(arg) is already func(Type, arg)
17:38:37Araqand with typedesc you can use that to your advantage
17:39:07mccooh, ok
17:39:19mcci'll look into that
17:40:17dom96cheatfate: why do you dislike ArrayView?
17:41:21cheatfatedom96, because it `Java` style name, and `java world` is a world of haters which can kill you because you are using their name :)
17:41:50dom96what makes it Java style?
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17:42:44cheatfateArrayList<View>
17:42:51mccwhat is the proposed new use of ArrayView?
17:43:36dom96IMO ArrayView describes what is very well
17:44:10dom96actually ListView might be better because it's more generic
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17:45:11mccwith the javascript stuff i am struggling to figure out how nim arrays and seqs ought to correspond to js types
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17:46:41mccand js has this horrible melange of Array, ArrayLike, ArrayBufferView, TypedArray, and DataView
17:47:29mccalso some of these are not actual types in the spec but are types that appear in the MDN documentation for convenience purposes, but some of the virtual types are defined in the TypeScript standard library anyway
17:48:05mccand none of them seem to correspond *exactly* to anything in nim
17:48:06mccalso, no ArrayView in js, I was confused, only ArrayBufferView
17:48:51cheatfatei dont like word `Array` because people can be confused, we already have `array` type.
17:49:35cheatfateMemoryView?
17:50:45krux02ArrayView is just fine
17:50:58krux02as long as it really is for continuous memory
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17:51:41mcci'm curious if whatever nim ArrayView is could correspond to js dataview
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17:52:02krux02but SeqView is also equally good, because it works for seq type, too
17:52:39krux02I don't know about js dataview, but ArrayView is supposed to be a pointer and a length
17:53:06krux02a non owning reference to data
17:53:55dom96mcc: not sure, it would be like a slice of a list or array. I don't think JS supports those.
17:54:12mccare arrayview contents mutable?
17:54:31dom96mcc: I believe so.
17:54:59mcccuz that sounds a lot like a dataview, except i think a dataview can only be used on a TypedArray.
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17:55:38dom96mcc: isn't that a TypeScript thing?
17:58:33mccTypedArray is not a symbol in either js or typescript. It is used in the es6 specification to refer to any of the packed array types (Uint8array, Float32array)
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18:00:15dom96ahh
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18:03:13cheatfatedom96, yeah `DataView` is a nice name
18:05:46mcci guess i don't see why "array" in "arrayView" is worse than "array" in "openArray"
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18:50:33cheatfatedom96, please take a look on https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/4704
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18:52:52dom96merged
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19:08:50mccnim macros have access to the filesystem, right?
19:09:11mcclike you could plausibly load a file and embed its contents in ast the at runtime?
19:11:46Araqnot at runtime
19:11:54Araqat compiletime
19:12:15mcci mistyped that. understood, thanks
19:18:47mcci'm looking at https://github.com/nim-lang/opengl , is this OpenGL 1, 2, 3, what? Is it possible to request a specific OpenGL version, or to query which version I got?
19:19:38mccis there any example code of using the nim opengl module with extensions?
19:19:46mccor example code of using the nim opengl module with sdl2?
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19:23:11PMunchmcc sdl2 is pretty straight forward
19:23:25PMunchYou can have a look at the Hookrace blog for some examples
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19:23:40mcci've got a working sdl2 application in nim, i just hadn't used it with opengl yet
19:23:44mccthanks
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19:24:24PMunchOh, I'm not sure if the examples includes any OpenGL stuff
19:27:37dom96http://nim-lang.org/news/2016_09_03_nim_community_survey_results.html
19:28:12dom96Please let me know what you guys think (i'll wait a bit before HN'ing/Reddit'ing) :)
19:29:50PMunchOooh, finally :)
19:32:13dom96Next time I definitely will take Araq's advice and not add as many questions
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19:48:41euantor`Difficulty installing on Windows.` being a dislike?
19:48:42euantorHow?
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19:49:05euantorIf anything, Windows is the easiest platform to install on given that there's an actual installer for it...
19:49:41dom96Indeed. I was wondering that myself.
19:49:56dom96A couple of people wrote it
19:50:03mccis it possible they meant "using on windows" rather than literally "installing"?
19:50:04dom96well, like 2 or 3
19:50:06dom96but still
19:50:07Araqyeah, it's remarkable, but I think it's because of other GCCs in PATH
19:50:14mccoh if they wrote it in n/m
19:50:23euantorPossibly, that would make sense Araq
19:50:34Araqmaybe I should give the new windows installer higher priority
19:50:49Araqright now it's a "fun project, maybe never finished"
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20:00:10dom96So, what do you guys think? Anything I need to change?
20:00:21euantorLooks good to me
20:02:53dom96Okay, HN/Reddit it is
20:04:36dom96hrm
20:04:55dom96Which is a better title, "Nim Community Survey 2016 Results" or "Results of the 2016 Nim Community Survey"
20:04:58dom96?
20:05:08euantorResults of the 2016 Nim Community Survey
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20:05:43ddddddthe last grap in unordered because...
20:05:47dddddd*graph
20:05:58ddddddI mean, not like the others
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20:06:07dom96dddddd: huh?
20:06:18ddddddThis last one is alphabetic, instead of result
20:07:04ddddddjust a minor detail, of course, but seems a bit different to the rest of the doc
20:07:46dom96oh yeah, I did it because I thought it looked better/more interesting. The first one is unordered also.
20:08:01dom96Anyway, submitted to HN/Reddi
20:08:02dom96t
20:08:28ddddddfair enough
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21:30:56filwitcongrats on the survey results writeup.. was a good read through
21:41:06dom96filwit: glad you liked it :)
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21:55:29PMunchdom96, links to submissions?
21:56:12PMuncheuantor, installing on Linux is super easy since we've got package managers
21:56:32euantorYeah, and easy on Windows too
21:56:35PMunchI just went into my package manager and told it to install nim and nimble and off I went
21:56:57euantorThe hardest one is probably OS X since the Homebrew formula has a bunch of problems last I heard
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22:00:14mcci think when i tried to install it on mac it required a newer os x version than i had
22:08:17dom96PMunch: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12420906 https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/510jgh/results_of_the_2016_nim_community_survey/
22:09:04PMunchHmm, less traction that I thought it would get
22:09:13PMunchI'll comment on it when I'm done reading :)
22:10:11PMunchJust got to the lines of code section (don't worry, I had to make dinner in the meantime, not a horribly slow reader). Has anyone compared how Nim compares to Rust in program size to accomplish the same thing?
22:10:38PMunchComparing Nim to e.g. C or Java would definitely not be fair since they both use brackets which really rack up those line counts
22:12:27PMunchThe project size for work users graph is a mess by the way :P Should've gone with two colours in different shades, e.g. light for part-time, dark for full time, blue for Nim, green for Rust.
22:25:32mccMaybe you should post it in the nim forum also?
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22:31:43dom96PMunch: fixed
22:32:38dom96hrm, wait I did it wrong
22:33:09PMunchHaha, now that's just even more confusing :P
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22:33:55dom96check again
22:34:28dom96I'm really disappointed
22:34:34dom96Was expecting far more interest in this
22:34:46dom96mcc: yeah, i'll do that now
22:34:54PMunchWell, it might just be bad timing
22:35:07PMunchHere it's Saturday night so most people are probably out
22:35:10mccHmmmmm
22:35:21mccI installed the opengl package via nimble on Windows under MSYS2 and it installed the x11 package
22:35:23mccis this surprising
22:36:44dom96PMunch: Programmers? Out? On a Saturday?
22:37:13dom96Am I the only social recluse? :P
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22:38:41PMunchHaha, I'd like to be, but the people I attend university with always invites me out..
22:39:16PMunchNot that that's necessarily a bad thing, but sometimes I just want to be home alone programming.
22:39:26dom96Too hard to say "No"? :P
22:39:37PMunchBut I guess not all of us are out today fredrik92?
22:40:20PMunchWell, since I work from home I get shamed into socializing on the weekends :P
22:41:03fredrik92Nah... Forgot to drag people into sth today...
22:41:20PMunchDidn't we get invited to a vorspiel?
22:41:51fredrik92Did we? Was up programming to 5:30 last night... So I haven't been in a much useful state today :P
22:43:09mcchmm also this is interesting, use of yaml in a file causes "jsonmaze.nim(5, 20) Warning: use 'else: discard'; non-ordinal case without 'else' is deprecated [Deprecated]" to be reported on a totally different line
22:43:11PMunchHaha :P Johs invited us
22:43:40mccand the other line contains nothing but an innocuous type definition
22:44:22fredrik92Hmm... well, I'm off to bed early today... See you...
22:44:30PMunchSee you
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22:49:13dom96I guess I'll try to resubmit to HN
22:49:58dom96Upvotes appreciated
22:50:21PMunchI'd give you one if I had an account
22:50:42PMunchUpvoted your reddit post and commented though :)
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22:52:25dom96thanks
22:54:49PMunchAlso put the word out in some other IRC channels, asking if there were any Nim users there :)
22:56:45dom96cool cool
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23:39:48PMunchJust bought your book by the way :) The coupon was nice
23:43:52PMunchwww.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/511gfp/nim_in_action_book_is_50_off_with_the/
23:44:04PMunchNothing grabs attention like discounts and freebies :)
23:44:40PMunchIf it's screwing with your marketing strategy for the book dom96, let me know and I'll take down the post
23:50:43dom96No, but the discount has nothing to do with the survey results. It's because of labour day and it works on all manning books.
23:51:59dom96Thanks for buying :)
23:52:05dom96I should really head to bed now
23:52:06dom96night
23:52:25PMunchOh, I thought it was a bonus for the survey :P
23:52:32PMunchWell okay, good night
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