<< 04-07-2017 >>
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07:04:34FromGitter<gokr> @zacharycarter Regarding 3D engine, I know you want to build your own and understand the motivations (hell I am making Spry) but I still think making a good Urho3D wrapper (or AtomicGameEngine which is a derivative with more action) would be wonderful.
07:05:44FromGitter<gokr> Atomic has a gitter channel btw, 320 people.
07:06:28*FromGitter * gokr stops nagging
07:10:19FromGitter<gokr> @zacharycarter IMHO also Urho/Atomic is much more interesting than Godot.
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07:15:17FromGitter<gokr> And the Urhonimo wrapper already shown it can fairly easily be wrapped. The C++ is also "fairly straight" (Araq can give his opinion, he knows better) in Urho3D, and Urho3D also offers "scripting" in a whole bunch of languages (Atomic adds more).
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07:18:02FromGitter<gokr> @zacharycarter Read a bit here: https://discourse.urho3d.io/search?q=Godot
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09:00:28FromGitter<TiberiumN> @gokr for me godot would be better
09:00:38FromGitter<TiberiumN> because it has new gdnative feature
09:00:47FromGitter<TiberiumN> for 2d games godot is better IMO :)
09:14:12ArrrrWhat is gdnative?
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09:24:54FromGitter<gokr> @TiberiumN Have you used both?
09:27:15FromGitter<gokr> And GDNative... not sure I grasp what's so cool about it.
09:28:10FromGitter<gokr> AFAICT it's just a way to make native code callable from GDScript?
09:30:04FromGitter<gokr> From what I gather Urho3D is a "cleaner fit" to Nim - since Urho3D is designed as a C++ library and designed to be coded in C++ - or in any of the included scripting languages that have the automated wrappers for the C++ APIs.
09:30:40FromGitter<gokr> You have a large choice there of standard languages, Lua and AngelScript has been there from the start. Atomic added js, typescript and C# IIRC.
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09:50:26skrylaroh fun. if you have an object, containing a proc, which return sthe object, the compiler does not realize this is impossible. it instead just crashes.
09:50:32skrylarthen tells me to run koch (which doesn't work)
09:53:16skrylarAraq you are right, libui is neat. no idea how it fares when doing platform integration stuff, but it seems to be a decent way to go
10:11:05FromGitter<zacharycarter> @gokr I'm down for working on an Urho3d wrapper I just have no idea where to even begin, much less how to go about it
10:14:52FromGitter<zacharycarter> or Atomic if that's what the community desires
10:15:04FromGitter<zacharycarter> seems like Urho3d is questioning some design decisions now
10:15:10FromGitter<zacharycarter> https://discourse.urho3d.io/t/modernising-urho3d/2489/4
10:18:24couven92euantor, I have moved the alignLeft proc we talked about a few days ago... that way we can deal with `cut` (if at all) on its own, while we can just merge alignLeft regardless
10:19:13FromGitter<zacharycarter> looks like atomic is just a fork of urho3d
10:19:18FromGitter<zacharycarter> with some added scripting languages
10:19:30FromGitter<zacharycarter> and an editor etc
10:22:09FromGitter<zacharycarter> If we want to wrap a C++ engine with Nim there are some newer / emerging ones that might be of interest too
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10:22:37FromGitter<zacharycarter> https://github.com/nem0/LumixEngine ⏎ https://github.com/BearishSun/BansheeEngine
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10:23:35FromGitter<zacharycarter> https://github.com/mosra/magnum.git
10:31:19euantornice one couven92
10:33:16FromGitter<zacharycarter> @gokr also I think your understanding of GDNative is incorrect (if mine is correct) - I don't think it allows you to call GDScript from native code, I believe it serves as an alternative to GDScript
10:33:31FromGitter<zacharycarter> so you can write your game code in a native language
10:33:35FromGitter<zacharycarter> and not use GDScript
10:33:55FromGitter<zacharycarter> but I could very much be wrong about that
10:39:30skrylarwhee, dangerous things with rawEnv and callbacks.
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11:08:10FromGitter<gokr> @zacharycarter Urhonimo was already started (wrapper of Urho3D) - I suspect it can be updated and moved further.
11:08:23FromGitter<gokr> @zacharycarter Araq knows more about how he generated the wrapper.
11:08:57FromGitter<gokr> @zacharycarter What I meant was not "calling GDScript from native" - but rather "calling your own native from GDScript".
11:09:53FromGitter<gokr> @zacharycarter Either way, I don't see what GDNative does that ... beats a c2nim generated wrapper of Urho3D? Did you ever see the Nim examples we made with Urho3D?
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11:11:18FromGitter<gokr> @zacharycarter Atomic is indeed Urho3D with extras. But quite a lot of extras.
11:12:30FromGitter<gokr> skrylar: libui is nice BUT.... it seems very stalled.
11:12:57FromGitter<gokr> Or can I write @skrylar ... hmm.
11:13:56FromGitter<zacharycarter> @gokr Yeah basically they're trying to add extra options to GoDot besides C++ with GDNative
11:14:14FromGitter<zacharycarter> so you could write your gameplay code in Nim / Rust / D whatever / also use third party libs written in those languages
11:14:31FromGitter<gokr> @zacharycarter IMHO the nice part with Urho3D is that its quite mature, stable, works on many platforms and so on. The design comes from Lasse (cadaver) that was very much into Ogre3D and made Urho3D as a "better Ogre".
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11:15:20FromGitter<zacharycarter> I agree it'd be nice to bring it up to date, but I have no idea where I'd even start
11:15:28FromGitter<zacharycarter> maybe when @Araq is around he can offer some guidance
11:15:36FromGitter<gokr> @zacharycarter Did you look at these? https://github.com/3dicc/Urhonimo/tree/master/examples
11:15:57FromGitter<gokr> From what I recall Araq made the wrapper basically using c2nim.
11:16:47FromGitter<zacharycarter> I have seen those but I've never run them
11:16:50FromGitter<zacharycarter> just seen the youtube video
11:17:26FromGitter<zacharycarter> yeah I imagine c2nim would be invaluable in the wrapping process but I have a feeling it's quite a bit more involved than just running c2nim on a single header file
11:18:08FromGitter<zacharycarter> Why doesn't Nim interpret '┌' as a character literal?
11:20:44FromGitter<ephja> it's two bytes wide, isn't it?
11:21:01FromGitter<zacharycarter> ah maybe
11:21:17FromGitter<ephja> there's the unicode module for these cases
11:21:17FromGitter<gokr> @zacharycarter IIRC in fact, most of the wrapper was just run using c2nim. He also improved c2nim in the process.
11:21:35FromGitter<gokr> One nice bit is... let me show...
11:21:36FromGitter<zacharycarter> @ephja gotcha thank you
11:21:46FromGitter<zacharycarter> @goker hrm maybe @araq can shine some light as to where he started the process
11:22:00FromGitter<zacharycarter> it'd be nice to be able to get the engine initialized and then go from there
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11:22:59FromGitter<gokr> https://github.com/3dicc/Urhonimo/blob/master/examples/huge.nim#L175-L176
11:23:25FromGitter<gokr> Was made possible by this further up that file: https://github.com/3dicc/Urhonimo/blob/master/examples/huge.nim#L30-L35
11:23:45FromGitter<ephja> but I don't think there's a shortcut for turning a string with a single rune into a Rune (integer)
11:23:47FromGitter<zacharycarter> ah nice :D
11:24:05FromGitter<zacharycarter> @ephja how would I convert it to a cint using the unicode module? I'm not seeing anything
11:24:09FromGitter<gokr> Urho3D has lots of very nice examples - and Atomic has added even more.
11:24:27FromGitter<gokr> And examples are usually both in C++ and in js or AngelScript etc.
11:24:52FromGitter<gokr> Atomic added also the Turbobadger UI IIRC
11:25:06FromGitter<gokr> Urho3D has its own builtin UI which is a bit anemic, although it works.
11:25:29FromGitter<gokr> Also, IIRC all examples run fine on Android and iOS also.
11:26:13FromGitter<ephja> @zacharycarter unicode.runeAt(s, 0) I think
11:26:20FromGitter<zacharycarter> thank you @pj
11:26:27FromGitter<zacharycarter> @ephja *
11:26:39FromGitter<zacharycarter> hrm Atomic might be the way to go then
11:28:45FromGitter<gokr> I suspect one can build Urhonimo "on Atomic" as well as Urho3D. They do have mods but try to fork as little as possible.
11:28:52FromGitter<gokr> Both are MIT also.
11:31:25FromGitter<zacharycarter> once @Araq is around I'll ask for some guidance as far as where to begin
11:32:16FromGitter<gokr> @zacharycarter Awesome! I will try to help as much as I can too.
11:33:14FromGitter<zacharycarter> sweet! :smile:
11:33:18FromGitter<gokr> Because I really do think it's a very good engine (we came a long way with it at 3DICC before we had to put it on hold) and cool stuff is happening there
11:33:36FromGitter<zacharycarter> I need a new job where I can work on games :P
11:33:38FromGitter<gokr> Especially Atomic is vibrant as hell.
11:34:18FromGitter<gokr> I would love to work more with 3DICC but at the moment I am IoT focused.
11:34:34FromGitter<zacharycarter> gotcha
11:34:50FromGitter<zacharycarter> IoT sounds cool though too
11:34:53FromGitter<gokr> But... some of the screenshots at 3dicc.com are actually from the new version we worked at using Urho3D.
11:35:44FromGitter<zacharycarter> ah awesome
11:36:12FromGitter<gokr> The background pic here is actually in Urho3D: http://www.3dicc.com/about/
11:36:27FromGitter<gokr> You can tell the graphics look different from the other screenshots.
11:36:31FromGitter<zacharycarter> yeah
11:36:34FromGitter<zacharycarter> looks a lot nicer
11:36:36FromGitter<zacharycarter> SSAO and such
11:36:45FromGitter<gokr> Those bodies were made with Mixamo Fuse
11:37:00FromGitter<zacharycarter> ah yeah I had a license to fuse back when I was doing a lot of 3d stuff
11:37:10FromGitter<zacharycarter> adobe really pissed me off with that one :P but it's a cool product
11:37:15FromGitter<gokr> Using the fbx importer path it worked great
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11:59:04SentreenQuestion: How do concepts and overloading work together? Concretely, is there any reason why the following code does not compile? https://pastebin.com/rwniXrUG
11:59:51SentreenI get that concepts are not interfaces, but I feel like this is the kind of use case concepts were made for, i.e. impose some constraints on a generic.
12:00:04SentreenI considered submitting an issue, but I wanted to be sure I wasn't just using concepts the wrong way first
12:03:10FromGitter<andreaferretti> I think you are using them wrong
12:03:41FromGitter<andreaferretti> You are declaring that a type `T` belongs to `SomeConcept` if you can call `myProc` on it
12:04:03FromGitter<andreaferretti> You can use that constraint in generic functions
12:04:35FromGitter<andreaferretti> But then you wrap your `int` into `SomeType`
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12:05:22FromGitter<andreaferretti> Oh sorry I had misread the example
12:05:32FromGitter<andreaferretti> `myProc` is defined on `SomeType` as well
12:05:57FromGitter<Araq> what's up?
12:06:10FromGitter<andreaferretti> I must be tired today
12:06:21FromGitter<andreaferretti> It's the second time I read things wrong :-D
12:06:24FromGitter<zacharycarter> o/ @Araq @gokr and I were discussing urhonimo
12:06:56FromGitter<zacharycarter> and maybe trying to try to do something similar with the Atomic game engine which is an updated fork of Urho3d
12:07:53FromGitter<zacharycarter> was wondering if you had any guidance on how you tackled / started with your wrapper around Urho
12:08:49FromGitter<Araq> I kissed my kids goodbye for a month, didn't sleep, didn't eat and then it was done
12:08:55FromGitter<Araq> :P
12:09:10FromGitter<zacharycarter> lmao
12:09:12SentreenYeah, I think it works when `myProc` is not overloaded. Not 100% sure though
12:10:45FromGitter<Araq> https://youtu.be/DgzssDOTMXs?t=49
12:11:03SentreenThis got me thinking though, are generics instantiated in the module where the abstract type is defined? Or in the module where you make a concrete instance?
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12:11:49FromGitter<Araq> the latter
12:13:00SentreenWhat's the reason for this? It seems to be the cause for most of the issues I'm running into at the moment
12:14:22FromGitter<Araq> concepts now have symbol lookup prepass like templates to prevent typos
12:14:39FromGitter<Araq> I need to take a deeper look but this could be your problem.
12:15:21FromGitter<Araq> but your code is strange
12:15:59FromGitter<Araq> proc otherProc(t: SomeConcept) = ⏎ t.field.myProc() ⏎ echo "outer"
12:16:29FromGitter<Araq> is easier to understand unless you want the other myProc to implement the concept as well
12:16:43FromGitter<Araq> in which case my head is starting to explode :P
12:18:20SentreenIt's the other way around, the proc that echoes "inner" implements the concept, the other one just happens to have the same name.
12:18:24SentreenWhich might still make your head explode :p
12:19:54SentreenI'm creating a framework, the idea is that people can add most of their code by creating their own type and the procs that belong to it. I just use the concepts to ensure that some key procs are present
12:21:26SentreenBut is there any reasons generics are not instantiated in the module where they are defined? I don't know enough about the compiler to properly reason about this, but if this were the case I believe it would solve issues like this too: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/6049
12:21:52SentreenI guess it would make other things explode, but as I said, I don't know enough about the implementation to reason about this :p
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12:29:30FromGitter<Araq> yeah well, with concepts we can definitely check generics at definition time, not instantiation time
12:30:08FromGitter<Araq> but I doubt we'll get there for Nim v1
12:30:29FromGitter<Araq> it's on my radar though
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12:32:31SentreenOkay, I'm mainly just wondering what the implications would be when generics are instantiated in the module where they are defined. Since the way I see it, they kind of break the module system right now.
12:32:55FromGitter<Araq> well do you know about 'bind'?
12:32:55SentreenThough I agree concepts are a pretty nice workaround :)
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12:33:28SentreenI do not. Let me look into it
12:35:05SentreenOh, I only used it in templates so far, I'll see if I can use it to solve my problem. Thanks for the pointer!
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13:27:48FromGitter<gokr> @Araq For updating the Urhonimo wrapper - did you push all into that repo? Or was there some scripts involved too?
13:28:21FromGitter<gokr> I never ran the actual generation, and I am not sure if you got it fully automated or not.
13:29:25FromGitter<zacharycarter> @gokr I just tried building atomic for osx, no dice, will try to get help when the creators / maintainers are round
13:32:16FromGitter<gokr> Hmmm, otherwise Urho3D usually builds very nicely.
13:32:34FromGitter<gokr> Was a while since I tried building Atomic
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14:09:04FromGitter<zacharycarter> @gokr figured out my issues with atomic, going to set up a dev env for it
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14:44:44FromGitter<ephja> can concepts match procs with an arbitrary amount of arguments?
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14:49:28FromGitter<zacharycarter> @gokr nm atomic is still being a pita
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15:20:40FromGitter<Araq> @gokr it's complete and up to date to the best of my knowledge
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15:46:41FromGitter<ephja> Markus Oberhumer is contributing to nimqml and DOtherSide?
15:51:31FromGitter<ephja> is that the fire alarm? did someone start cooking something and then go to bed again? lol
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16:08:04FromGitter<zacharycarter> how i can replace all characters in a string with an asterisk?
16:10:47FromGitter<Varriount> @zacharycarter Create a new string? Or just loop through the one you want to mutate.
16:11:21FromGitter<zacharycarter> just looking for some shorthand way to do it
16:11:44FromGitter<Varriount> for index, character in stringValue: stringValue[index] = '*'
16:11:53FromGitter<zacharycarter> thanks
16:14:58FromGitter<gokr> @Araq You mean Urhonimo? Did we update it for latest Urho?
16:15:31FromGitter<Araq> probably not, I don't know what the latest Urho is, but I did update it a couple of times
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16:20:53FromGitter<gokr> Hmmm, I will take a look - aha - you did port it to 1.5 I see.
16:21:03FromGitter<ephja> is the presence of sfUsed the only information currently stored regarding the usage?
16:21:03FromGitter<gokr> It's at 1.6 now though.
16:22:46FromGitter<ephja> probably
16:22:57FromGitter<Araq> @ephja yes
16:40:11FromGitter<ephja> optimizing away compile time variables at least might not be too difficult
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16:45:47FromGitter<Araq> don't use sfUsed for optimization, the codegen uses its own optimizing pass, well actually
16:46:05FromGitter<Araq> it just emits stuff lazily, on demand
16:48:54FromGitter<ephja> ok
17:02:05FromGitter<ephja> I have no idea which line includes sfUsed for vars that are used
17:03:09FromGitter<Araq> sfUsed is not used by the backend
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17:08:44FromGitter<ephja> no but I wanted to find the location anyway and none of the contexts where sfUsed appears that I haven't already debug printed in seem relevant
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17:20:07FromGitter<ephja> "var x = y" 路
17:25:52FromGitter<ephja> wait
17:30:47FromGitter<ephja> it did not occur to me to look in suggest.nim
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18:38:15FromGitter<aboisvert> I would like to provide a custom deep copy proc
18:38:26FromGitter<aboisvert> the manual states that I should implement: proc `=deepCopy`(x: T): T
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18:38:49FromGitter<aboisvert> but I get failures because my type is parametrized
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18:39:20FromGitter<aboisvert> I'd like to provide: proc `=deepCopyT (x: MyType[T]): MyType[T]`
18:40:06FromGitter<aboisvert> but compiler complains: `Error: signature for 'deepCopy' must be procT: ptr|ref (x: T): T`
18:40:24FromGitter<aboisvert> Any thoughts?
18:45:41salewskiIs your MyType a ptr or ref as desired by the compiler?
18:49:25salewskiI have just uploaded the latest generator script and a first example:
18:49:28salewskihttps://github.com/StefanSalewski/nim-gi
18:50:19salewskiBut I assume that for most of you it will not work yet, and I have still no idea how I can do nimble install for that.
18:50:24salewskiBye.
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20:26:00FromGitter<Varriount> @aboisvert This seems like a compiler limitation... Perhaps have the deepcopy proc delegate?
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21:05:40FromGitter<aboisvert> Yes MyType[To] is a ref
21:06:06FromGitter<aboisvert> Sorry MyType[T]
21:07:08FromGitter<aboisvert> @Varriount not sure what you mean by delegate in this case
21:08:48FromGitter<Varriount> Hm. Well, there's ways to get stains the compiler limitation
21:08:55FromGitter<Varriount> *get around
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21:34:41FromGitter<panelhazakat_twitter> Noob here, is there an easy way to get the number of possible values of an enum?
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22:18:46FromGitter<indy9000_twitter> In the following how to prevent `Error: cannot prove: i <= len(result) + -1 (bounds check)` ⏎ ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=595c1446ad9c781843cf755e]
22:22:01FromGitter<indy9000_twitter> I could `var r=newSeqfloat (len(src))` and assign the result of big_computation and then copy the values to `result` but that doesn't look elegant and 'unnecessarily' create an array.
22:23:32FromGitter<ephja> `assert i <= result.high`?
22:25:49FromGitter<ephja> or maybe a check before the loop that compares the lengths, but I've never used these features
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22:32:30FromGitter<ephja> @indy9000_twitter "if i <= result.high: ..." seems to work, but not assert
22:34:49FromGitter<indy9000_twitter> before the loop or inside?
22:36:25FromGitter<indy9000_twitter> Thanks but, there has to be an elegant solution...
22:38:34FromGitter<ephja> well it is experimental
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23:53:13FromGitter<zacharycarter> @panelhazakat_twitter without iterating over them?