| 00:00:26 | Trustable | and keyboard shortcuts with all modifiers |
| 00:02:21 | Trustable | The scroll to bottom and the red text of the TreeView was really hard to figure out for me. (This is my first work with Gtk) |
| 00:04:10 | dom96 | wow, really? I'm impressed. |
| 00:04:18 | dom96 | Gtk scrolling is always annoying |
| 00:04:37 | dom96 | So much so that I wrote an article about it http://picheta.me/articles/2013/08/gtk-plus--a-method-to-guarantee-scrolling.html lol |
| 00:05:04 | dom96 | Anyway, good job. If you want more work take a look at the todo :) |
| 00:05:09 | dom96 | Good night |
| 00:07:09 | Trustable | good night |
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| 06:56:19 | bogen | Araq: ok, I'm rewriting some of my C/C++ libraries in pure nim, so that I can use them at compile time in macro calls. hopefully with https://github.com/Araq/Nimrod/commit/201a08e9a54cf129aca33d43d57cadd29e564149 I will no longer need to use StaticExec in those macros. |
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| 09:06:24 | dom96 | ooh, somebody should wrap this: https://github.com/vmg/sundown |
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| 10:13:25 | bogen | dom96, you mean wrap all the sd_markdown_* functions |
| 10:13:45 | dom96 | or somebody should just write a markdown parser |
| 10:13:58 | dom96 | now that we have this brand new standard which many people are complaining about |
| 10:14:37 | bogen | yeah, I was just doing a quick peruse of vmg/sundown and seeing what needed to be wrapped |
| 10:16:26 | dom96 | bogen: are you interested in wrapping it? |
| 10:16:54 | bogen | I would be, but I have a lot of other stuff on my plate. sundown has large callback structure that needs to be wrapped, so all the callbacks would need to be c exports |
| 10:18:02 | bogen | so currently it is not something that interests me |
| 10:18:36 | dom96 | oh, that sounds terrible. |
| 10:18:45 | dom96 | Why do they use callbacks? |
| 10:19:39 | bogen | for rendering, don't know all the details |
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| 10:21:17 | bogen | https://github.com/vmg/sundown/blob/master/src/markdown.h#L65 |
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| 11:51:12 | dom96 | Trustable: I made some more comments on your new PR. |
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| 11:54:43 | Trustable | dom96: thx, I will look on it tonight or tomorrow :) |
| 11:54:55 | dom96 | Trustable: thanks |
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| 11:58:04 | wan1 | dom96: wouldn't it be better to wrap stmd? It parses better |
| 12:00:34 | dom96 | wan1: maybe. I truly don't know, I haven't looked into the available libraries much. Just saw that reddit uses sundown. |
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| 12:50:29 | iamanoob | Hello guys :) a short question. i just looked at some examples and compiled them at my machine. i added a random variable (var x = ""). the compiler said nothing and just passes. is that normal? should not come a message like "var x is not in use..."? ty for every answer! |
| 12:51:08 | dom96 | the compiler likely outputs a warning |
| 12:51:17 | EXetoC | yep |
| 12:51:33 | iamanoob | really? ok thanks! i will check that. it's 100% my fault then. ty |
| 12:51:40 | EXetoC | it should be there, after the hints and before the compiler arguments |
| 12:52:05 | EXetoC | so it does indeed "pass" |
| 12:54:51 | iamanoob | yep, its there. my fault... i thought these "informations" about the compile process are always the same and ignored them x)... ty... i'm just a real noob :D i currently try to find a programming language for myself... i stuck currently at Go, Rust or Nimrod... |
| 12:56:58 | bjz | iamanoob: not all compilers do the 'unused variable' warning. I don't think D does. Clang does if you enable the right flag. Rust does it by default I think. Does Go? |
| 12:57:12 | iamanoob | yep go does. |
| 12:57:48 | iamanoob | i just didnt saw it in nimrod because in other langs (go and rust) its more in the foreground x) .. |
| 12:58:21 | EXetoC | don't listen to bjz if he tells you to pick Rust out of those languages |
| 12:58:36 | EXetoC | they do pay him to convince people on IRC. it's true! |
| 12:58:44 | iamanoob | haha :) |
| 12:58:45 | bjz | hah |
| 12:59:04 | EXetoC | joking of course |
| 12:59:04 | * | bjz didn't |
| 12:59:17 | bjz | they only payed me for 3 months |
| 12:59:22 | bjz | :P |
| 12:59:28 | iamanoob | i saw that you can write a complete OS in Rust... thats cool but i would never need something powerful ^^ |
| 12:59:37 | EXetoC | oh |
| 12:59:51 | EXetoC | you can in Nimrod too, and many other languages |
| 13:00:03 | EXetoC | "wide-spectrum" languages ftw |
| 13:00:05 | iamanoob | oops xD okay :D didnt know that |
| 13:00:19 | bjz | EXetoC: no pay, no prothletising |
| 13:01:33 | bjz | iamanoob: you can write an OS in any lang. whether you can write a kernal that actually runs on hardware is a differnent story... |
| 13:02:03 | iamanoob | Assembler ftw |
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| 13:02:30 | bjz | iamanoob: you should totes use haskell ;) |
| 13:02:44 | iamanoob | tried it... to complex for me.. coming from python |
| 13:02:52 | EXetoC | many kernels are written in C mostly, with a little bit of asm |
| 13:03:48 | iamanoob | i watched a cool introduction about haskell on youtube and tried it after that... could not even make a simple Guess Game... In nimrod (, go and rust) i got that in some 15 minutes |
| 13:03:55 | bjz | EXetoC: I'm just pretending to know stuff here |
| 13:04:02 | * | bjz is actually a noob |
| 13:04:37 | iamanoob | :P |
| 13:05:41 | iamanoob | can i block the creation of the nimcache folder? |
| 13:06:13 | iamanoob | or that after the compile process the folder gets remoevd? |
| 13:06:16 | iamanoob | removed* |
| 13:16:01 | EXetoC | I only see a way to override the location |
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| 13:21:34 | iamanoob | np, ty anyway :) |
| 13:23:20 | bjz | EXetoC: how are you going with nimrod anyway? |
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| 13:34:04 | EXetoC | bjz: I have wrapped about 3 libs and submitted roughly 30 issues |
| 13:34:16 | EXetoC | which I'm not that happy with because I've been using the language for over a year |
| 13:34:51 | EXetoC | but it's something |
| 13:36:42 | iamanoob | you have to find the issues first, so 30 issues is much i think ^-^ |
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| 16:30:55 | Sh00ck | Hello :) I tried to install Babel on my Windows PC but if i try to "babel.exe install" i get the error: "could not load: (ssleay32|libssl32).dll". does someone know how to fix this? |
| 16:31:16 | Sh00ck | should i just download from the internet those dll's? |
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| 16:34:59 | dom96 | hello Sh00ck |
| 16:35:08 | Sh00ck | Hi :) |
| 16:35:14 | dom96 | grab them from this zip https://github.com/nimrod-code/babel/releases/download/v0.4/babel-0.4_win32.zip |
| 16:35:42 | Sh00ck | ah thanks, didnt checked the releases. :) |
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| 16:38:02 | Sh00ck | dom96: should Aporia (the IDE) still work or is it outdated? |
| 16:38:19 | dom96 | I still use it |
| 16:38:23 | dom96 | and others do too :) |
| 16:38:37 | Sh00ck | Ah okay, but i get on my mac and pc the same compile error... |
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| 16:39:08 | Sh00ck | "Error: type mismatch: got (proc (PAsyncSocket)) but expected 'proc (PAsyncSocket){.closure, gcsafe.}" don't know if that helps? :) |
| 17:01:58 | Sh00ck | dom96: do you get a compile error (with the devel version) when you compile Aporia? i tried via babel (babel install aporia, babel install aporia#head does not work) and manually but i always get the same error (windows and macosx) does someone know a solutin :D? |
| 17:03:03 | dom96 | argh |
| 17:03:23 | dom96 | try --threadAnalysis:off |
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| 17:05:05 | Sh00ck | dm96: wow! IT WORKS. thank you so much. what does threadAnalysis do on my pcs that this did not work? |
| 17:07:29 | dom96 | Sh00ck: There have been recent changes to the compiler which introduced some extra thread safety features, but Aporia still doesn't make use of them. You just disabled them :) |
| 17:08:08 | Sh00ck | dom96: ah okay. ty :) |
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| 17:19:30 | EXetoC | yay safety |
| 17:21:23 | Sh00ck | dom96: argh, next error... i installed GTK2 and co (like in the readme) but still get the error: "could not load: libgtksourceview-2.0-0.dll" i copied this dll now in my path and in the root directory of aporia.. still the same error ._. i'm too stupid for everything |
| 17:21:54 | dom96 | like a 32bit vs. 64bit issue |
| 17:22:18 | Sh00ck | i downloaded the 64bit but there was no .dll, so i downloaded the 32bit |
| 17:22:25 | dom96 | you should use 32bit |
| 17:22:30 | dom96 | together with a 32bit nimrod compiler |
| 17:22:46 | dom96 | i.e. you should have built nimrod using build.bat not build64.bat |
| 17:23:05 | Sh00ck | ouch |
| 17:23:58 | Sh00ck | at the csources? |
| 17:24:57 | dom96 | yes |
| 17:25:02 | Sh00ck | lol, i looked at it... i already used a 32bit nimrod installation. i didnt even noticed that there was a build64.bat ^^ autocomplete 4 the win xD |
| 17:25:44 | EXetoC | crude auto complete :-) |
| 17:25:58 | dom96 | You can always grab this, or use the DLLs from it: http://nimrod-lang.org/download/aporia-0.2.0.zip |
| 17:26:07 | dom96 | (pcre is missing from it though I think) |
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| 17:28:39 | Sh00ck | dom96: why the **** do i ever ignore these releases? -.-' thanks... again you solved my problem x) now i just have to find pcre.dll and everything *should* work fine. :) |
| 17:29:22 | dom96 | well that's not listed in the releases |
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| 17:30:35 | Sh00ck | dom96: finally got it. thanks for your help. now i can finally try out the language. :) |
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| 17:45:20 | Sh00ck | is it better to use number += 1 or inc number? does this have any effect on speed or something / or is one way recommended? (sorry that i ask so much...) |
| 17:48:33 | EXetoC | it doesn't really do anything special for numbers I think, but 'inc' is indeed commonly used |
| 17:49:03 | Sh00ck | EXetoC: ty |
| 17:49:04 | EXetoC | and you don't have to press shift :> |
| 17:49:10 | Sh00ck | haha :) |
| 17:49:17 | Sh00ck | thats true |
| 17:52:08 | EXetoC | "increments the ordinal ``x`` by ``y``. If such a value does not exist, ``EOutOfRange`` is raised or a compile time error occurs" I don't know if this should apply to integers as well, but I would think not (see the definition, it takes Ordinal|uint|uint64, and Ordinal includes enums) |
| 17:52:22 | EXetoC | actually, I can't get it to throw |
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| 17:55:44 | EXetoC | damn you, enumerators with holes |
| 17:56:29 | EXetoC | I just had to complain about some minor issue. haven't done that in a while :-) |
| 18:00:07 | Sh00ck | :D |
| 18:01:03 | dom96 | EXetoC: how's fixing mongo going? :P |
| 18:03:01 | EXetoC | gotta stop procrastinating |
| 18:03:04 | EXetoC | but I'm making progress |
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| 18:07:30 | EXetoC | and by progress I mean I've started over |
| 18:21:03 | dom96 | that's something I guyess |
| 18:21:05 | dom96 | *guess |
| 18:21:07 | dom96 | brb |
| 18:33:53 | dom96 | back |
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| 18:54:54 | EXetoC | should procs that only read from strings have cstring overloads? for the rare cases where performance matters when interfacing with C? |
| 19:01:09 | EXetoC | I'm sure it can be achieved without incur much mental overhead, but I'll just convert to string now |
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| 19:14:10 | Araq | hi Sh00ck welcome |
| 19:15:41 | Sh00ck | ty :) |
| 19:16:08 | Araq | so ... who wants to fix the codegen to support float32 properly? |
| 19:16:11 | Araq | reactormonk? |
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| 19:31:06 | Araq | er ... why does the compiler import cgi, cookies xmltree and macros? |
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| 19:31:32 | dom96 | Because it needs to webscale!!!!1111 |
| 19:32:30 | Araq | json, unicode, ... |
| 19:32:55 | Araq | I wonder where that bloat comes from |
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| 19:38:07 | Sh00ck | another question: can't i use in Nimrod number /= 2 or number *= 2? |
| 19:38:25 | Sh00ck | += and -= works |
| 19:38:32 | flaviu | Can someone who knows more about Nimrod's GC pop into http://www.reddit.com/r/nimrod/comments/2fcp0t/concurrencysafe_data_structures_in_nimrod/ and be more detailed than I can be? |
| 19:38:52 | Araq | hmm I thought we support *= and /= |
| 19:40:11 | Sh00ck | if i try this: http://url.udev.io/gfbik it doesnt work... if i remove the last 2 it works... |
| 19:40:34 | dom96 | flaviu: My first thought "is that because Java never frees ANYTHING?!" |
| 19:40:58 | flaviu | dom96: That's both incorrect and not at all constructive. |
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| 19:42:56 | dom96 | Yes, well, I hate Java. Sue me :P |
| 19:43:32 | Sh00ck | Araq: i looked in the source code and it exists there... proc `/=` wtf... what is wrong with my code ._. |
| 19:44:06 | dom96 | Sh00ck: seems it's only available for floats though |
| 19:44:09 | flaviu | Why hate it? I've never seen anything as well done as the JVM. Its amazing software. The language isn't half-bad either... |
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| 19:44:26 | flaviu | Shouldn't /= etc be a template? |
| 19:44:39 | flaviu | or a generic proc? |
| 19:45:05 | Sh00ck | dom96: but i can use *=, and that works perfect (its the same definition in the source code...) |
| 19:45:11 | Sh00ck | -=* |
| 19:45:12 | Sh00ck | sorry |
| 19:45:50 | Araq | flaviu: yeah, well it can't be a template |
| 19:45:57 | Araq | we discussed this before |
| 19:46:11 | flaviu | Sorry, I must have missed it or forgotton |
| 19:46:40 | Araq | the JVM pretends there is no OS. so much for the "amazing" part. |
| 19:46:54 | dom96 | flaviu: Because the JVM is a huge dependency, and it consumes 90% of my memory. |
| 19:47:07 | flaviu | Araq: I have no idea what that is supposed to mean |
| 19:47:08 | Araq | it's actually pretty crappy given the billions of dollars that went into its development |
| 19:47:31 | flaviu | dom96: That is a disadvantage, although you are exaggerating significantly |
| 19:47:44 | dom96 | The language is only getting the nice features now because Scala is kicking its ass. |
| 19:48:10 | Araq | flaviu: I mean "max heap size" for a start |
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| 19:48:37 | flaviu | Not a problem for typical usage |
| 19:48:51 | flaviu | You give it 90% of your memory, since you're running it on a server |
| 19:49:23 | dom96 | It's fine as long as you are only running one thing on your server. |
| 19:49:29 | flaviu | Also, they need that information to determine generation size |
| 19:49:33 | Araq | so name another runtime that cannot grow its heap on demand |
| 19:49:40 | Araq | can't think of any |
| 19:50:00 | flaviu | it does grow the heap |
| 19:50:11 | flaviu | with G1 it can also shrink the heap |
| 19:50:20 | enurlyx | Is it known, that low does not work for var openarray or var seq? high works. |
| 19:50:43 | Araq | low surely works? I use it |
| 19:50:51 | enurlyx | in iterator ? |
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| 19:51:07 | Araq | ah well there is a regression |
| 19:51:17 | Araq | fixed already in bigbreak ... *cough* |
| 19:51:17 | flaviu | Oh, Araq: Google says -XX:+AggressiveHeap |
| 19:51:23 | enurlyx | ok, thanks |
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| 19:51:53 | Araq | flaviu: ok, maybe they fixed that in the decades, it was a pita when I used it |
| 19:52:16 | flaviu | 1.4.1+ |
| 19:53:58 | Jehan_ | What are you folks talking about? |
| 19:54:08 | Araq | the amazing JVM |
| 19:54:14 | flaviu | "dom96: flaviu: My first thought "is that because Java never frees ANYTHING?!"" |
| 19:54:46 | dom96 | That's in reply to: |
| 19:54:46 | dom96 | <flaviu> Can someone who knows more about Nimrod's GC pop into http://www.reddit.com/r/nimrod/comments/2fcp0t/concurrencysafe_data_structures_in_nimrod/ and be more detailed than I can be? |
| 19:54:48 | Jehan_ | The JVM implementation *is* pretty darn amazing. It's the JVM *design* that's bad. |
| 19:55:37 | Araq | hmm I think I have to agree |
| 19:56:08 | flaviu | All I know is that I don't think that dom96's statement is at all productive, and is really just flamebait |
| 19:56:17 | Jehan_ | The problem with the JVM is that to replicate the effort for a saner design requires a few developer centuries. |
| 19:57:12 | Araq | *shrug* well I know for sure the JVM will never produce slim binaries with few dependencies |
| 19:57:29 | Araq | which is nim's strength |
| 19:57:39 | flaviu | I've only heard of one guy using java for scripting stuff |
| 19:57:55 | Araq | you know ... when you actually *care* about your users ... :P |
| 19:58:02 | flaviu | Nothing to disagree about there, the JVM is huge |
| 19:58:26 | Jehan_ | Araq: You can use Avian to generate self-contained binaries (of course, it'll cost you performance, because Avian isn't nearly as sophisticated). |
| 19:58:58 | Araq | Jehan_: all these things do not really work |
| 19:59:06 | Araq | and they never will thanks to reflection |
| 19:59:18 | Jehan_ | Araq: Well, that depends on whether you use reflection. :) |
| 19:59:34 | Araq | even awt uses reflection |
| 19:59:49 | Araq | reflection in java land is *everywhere* |
| 19:59:59 | Jehan_ | flaviu: The thing about the reddit comment is that with thread-local heaps, a shared concurrent hash table requires a different design. |
| 20:00:19 | Araq | remove reflection from the ecosystem and it's like starting from scratch |
| 20:00:19 | Jehan_ | Araq: They use it to run JVM code on iOS. |
| 20:00:32 | * | io2 quit (Quit: ...take irc away, what are you? genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist) |
| 20:00:33 | flaviu | Jehan_: Please talk about that there, you know much more about it than I do |
| 20:00:56 | Jehan_ | flaviu: I don't visit Reddit. |
| 20:01:04 | * | io2 joined #nimrod |
| 20:01:20 | flaviu | Alright, type it out here and I'll post it for you then |
| 20:02:05 | * | Sh00ck quit () |
| 20:02:08 | Araq | Jehan_: you can definitely get these things into a state where it can run in production, but it's usually still not correct ;-) |
| 20:02:46 | Jehan_ | Araq: The bigger problem with the JVM is that it's still so awfully limited in what it can do. |
| 20:03:04 | Araq | but yes, I'm aware that people only pretend to care about correctness |
| 20:03:17 | Araq | usually to make an argument for Haskell |
| 20:03:26 | Jehan_ | That's not what I'm talking about. :) |
| 20:04:44 | Araq | ja, ich schweife ab |
| 20:06:21 | Jehan_ | I just find it depressing that so much development effort is invested in such a limited engine. |
| 20:07:37 | dom96 | I find it depressing that I will be forced to use Java at Uni. |
| 20:08:01 | Araq | Jehan_: so what limits do you have in mind? |
| 20:08:45 | Jehan_ | Lack of value types, for starters. Which we *may* get eventually. |
| 20:08:56 | Jehan_ | No call by reference. |
| 20:09:05 | Jehan_ | An extremely limited object model. |
| 20:09:42 | Jehan_ | Basically, the JVM is a backend that's useful for Java and any language willing to live with the same constraints (or to shoehorn its design into the JVM's limitations). |
| 20:11:07 | Jehan_ | I'd love to be able to target the JVM as a backend. |
| 20:19:36 | Jehan_ | I'm having a contrarian night, anyway. Currently doing a write-up explaining why a project I'm involved in shouldn't use Git. |
| 20:21:53 | flaviu | Jehan_: SVN instead? :P |
| 20:22:09 | Jehan_ | flaviu: Pretty much anything instead, but probably Mercurial. |
| 20:22:23 | dom96 | Jehan_: Interesting. Why do you dislike Git? |
| 20:23:04 | Jehan_ | dom96: It's not necessarily my personal dislike (though I'm not a Git fan). It's that I think it's not a good choice for the project and especially the people who work on it. |
| 20:23:30 | Jehan_ | They're mostly not computer scientist. Understanding Mercurial and SVN is hard enough for them. |
| 20:23:50 | Jehan_ | Git, as I heard once, has a command line interface that looks like it was designed by an autistic squirrel. |
| 20:24:02 | flaviu | Jehan_: Fair enough, although some aliases might fix everything for them |
| 20:24:39 | Jehan_ | flaviu: If you're using a limited subset only, there's no point in using Git in the first place. |
| 20:24:39 | Trixar_za | So you've heard - but never used. That's like saying you hate sex because you watched buttsex once. |
| 20:24:58 | Jehan_ | The other issue is that Git isn't safe. |
| 20:25:20 | Jehan_ | Trixar_za: Umm. I know way too much about Git, I'm afraid. |
| 20:25:41 | Jehan_ | The command line interface *is* something that only a Linux kernel developer can love. |
| 20:26:11 | Jehan_ | Git is the C++ of version control systems, essentially. |
| 20:26:15 | Jehan_ | For better or worse. |
| 20:26:35 | Trixar_za | Dude, I already had this argument with a very attractive IT shop owner that hired people based on qualification rather than experience. I summerized it as such: Would you rather have sex with somebody that has read about it a lot or somebody that has had sex a lot? |
| 20:26:55 | Trixar_za | Mind you, I got slapped and thrown out of that interview, but still |
| 20:26:56 | dom96 | I haven't used Hg extensively but I think the biggest problem I see in me switching to it is that I like Github a lot more than BitBucket. |
| 20:27:14 | dom96 | Apart from that it was pleasent when I used it. |
| 20:27:28 | flaviu | dom96: ∞ free private bitbucket repos |
| 20:27:51 | Jehan_ | dom96: I don't see where either GitHub or Bitbucket is particularly stronger than the other. |
| 20:28:14 | Jehan_ | I use Bitbucket regardless of VCS because, as flaviu said, unlimited private repositories. |
| 20:28:23 | flaviu | Github is more of a social network sort of thing |
| 20:28:38 | dom96 | I use both. But all my open source stuff is on Github for greater exposure. |
| 20:28:59 | dom96 | I think that is the main advantage of Github: the social aspect. |
| 20:29:20 | Jehan_ | flaviu: As I like to say, GitHub is the open source world's Facebook. :) |
| 20:29:30 | Jehan_ | dom96: Not an advantage in my book. |
| 20:30:05 | dom96 | Jehan_: Why not? |
| 20:30:23 | flaviu | Jehan_: Free advertising |
| 20:30:51 | Trixar_za | dom96: I assume it's like when you dislike somebody. Even the good things they do, you'd consider as something that's a mark against them. |
| 20:32:29 | flaviu | Trixar_za: that's a bit rude. I'm sure there are good reasons |
| 20:33:05 | Trixar_za | My point is that if you're biased against something, nothing about it would be considered good. |
| 20:33:36 | Jehan_ | dom96: I think the benefits of what flaviu calls "free advertising" are overrated and can backfire. |
| 20:33:46 | Jehan_ | It depends on what you're looking for, of course. |
| 20:33:47 | Trixar_za | See what I mean |
| 20:34:36 | Jehan_ | Trixar_za: Personal attacks are really not a substitute for arguments. |
| 20:35:24 | Trixar_za | I'm actually attacking your argument and bias. |
| 20:35:51 | * | Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 20:36:50 | Trixar_za | Mostly because you ignored argument that being informed about something isn't the same as being experienced with it. Hence your bias is unfounded and probably based on somebody elses bad impression of git. |
| 20:36:57 | Jehan_ | dom96: If you want quality contributors, you will likely need some sort of "targeted advertising" rather than hoping someone stumbles on your project during a search. |
| 20:37:30 | Jehan_ | Trixar_za: Where did I do that? |
| 20:38:05 | Araq | Trixar_za: er ... what's wrong with you today? calm down please |
| 20:38:16 | Jehan_ | dom96: Conversely, you may be attracting below-average contributors on a popular site. |
| 20:38:30 | Trixar_za | Araq: Fine - backing off |
| 20:38:39 | reactormonk | Araq, nope. |
| 20:38:50 | Araq | reactormonk: aww. why not? |
| 20:38:52 | Jehan_ | Araq: Probably a Git fanboy who can't tolerate any critical remarks. |
| 20:39:03 | dom96 | Jehan_: I think I see what you mean. Indeed, people likely do not find out about Nimrod on Github but through HN and Reddit. |
| 20:39:04 | reactormonk | Araq, cause I got other stuff to code. Wanna help some on that? |
| 20:39:15 | flaviu | Jehan_: that's also quite inflammatory |
| 20:39:29 | Jehan_ | flaviu: Yes. |
| 20:39:30 | Trixar_za | Although I probably should have used Ok instead of Fine. Since the word gives the bad impression |
| 20:39:34 | dom96 | Although the fact that the code is on Github encourages them to look into it more. |
| 20:39:54 | EXetoC | Trixar_za: thrown out for presenting a good argument? how dare they :< |
| 20:40:10 | Araq | reactormonk: ok ok, fair enough |
| 20:40:31 | Trixar_za | I see the usefulness of git, hg and subversion, but I do have a problem with unfounded bias. It comes from my deep seated hatred of bigots. |
| 20:40:50 | dom96 | Trixar_za: I think you described a character flaw which I doubt Jehan possesses. I have great respect for the man :) |
| 20:41:29 | Araq | well guys ... the unwritten policy here is that ranting about software is fine but arguing on a personal level is not |
| 20:41:33 | Trixar_za | And yes, I do see the irony in that |
| 20:42:05 | Araq | so ... stop it or ... I don't know. I never banned *anybody* before. |
| 20:42:06 | Jehan_ | flaviu: The thing is, I can write up critiques of pretty much any VCS (and have done so). Each time I do so, some people complain because I've criticized their baby. |
| 20:43:20 | Trixar_za | It's quite easy actually. Most IRCds allow you to do /ban nickname. |
| 20:44:04 | Araq | Trixar_za: not the point |
| 20:44:45 | flaviu | Trixar_za: He didn't even ban some guy who was actually being disruptive at one point |
| 20:45:10 | flaviu | Jehan_: Sure, that seems reasonable. I am more neutral on these things than I sound, I enjoy playing the devil's advocate. |
| 20:45:45 | dom96 | Araq: Yes, that is a good rule. |
| 20:46:27 | Trixar_za | Jehan_: Oh shut up already. We get it. You hate VCS. Stop being a sore winner. FYI: Now that was a person attack. |
| 20:46:51 | flaviu | I have to get stuff done, see you later |
| 20:46:54 | * | flaviu quit (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 20:47:07 | Jehan_ | Same. |
| 20:47:08 | * | Jehan_ quit (Quit: Leaving) |
| 20:47:51 | * | Ven joined #nimrod |
| 20:48:01 | Trixar_za | Well, that worked |
| 20:48:43 | dom96 | I would have +q'd you but since Jehan is gone I guess there is no point. |
| 20:49:01 | dom96 | Why are you getting so worked up over what Jehan said? |
| 20:50:12 | * | Trustable joined #nimrod |
| 20:52:44 | Trixar_za | Like I said, I have a deep seated hatred of biased people. Especially when they feel they need to rub that bias in yor face. |
| 20:53:21 | Trixar_za | It may come from arguments I've had with my dad since he tends to take the same stance. |
| 20:56:02 | Trixar_za | It's actually my character flaw. I tend to jump into arguments when it's too one-sided and fight for the other side - even if I disagree with the opposing side. |
| 20:56:38 | * | jasondotstar|afk is now known as jasondotstar |
| 20:57:40 | dom96 | Well then I probably deserved your hatred a lot more than Jehan after my JVM comment. |
| 20:58:06 | dom96 | Which was mostly made in jest but still. |
| 20:59:07 | reactormonk | Where can I come troll? |
| 20:59:18 | dom96 | reactormonk: #nimrod-offtopic |
| 20:59:26 | dom96 | troll in there all you want |
| 20:59:44 | EXetoC | enough arguments haven't been presented by both sides already? :p |
| 21:00:01 | Araq | the amount of disrespect for what I just said leaves me speechless |
| 21:00:05 | reactormonk | That's like a bike with training wheels, trolling in there |
| 21:00:46 | Trixar_za | It's not so much the comment, but the the attitude behind it that gets me :P |
| 21:01:17 | reactormonk | And there I wanted to go grab popcorn while Araq gets his banhammer. |
| 21:02:09 | dom96 | I'd prefer if we attempted to avoid banning people. |
| 21:02:18 | Trixar_za | This may also explain why I don't get along with people just like me |
| 21:02:25 | dom96 | Especially people who we know are cool. |
| 21:02:43 | dom96 | Maybe Trixar_za is just having a bad day. |
| 21:03:41 | Trixar_za | Not really - it was pretty good. I just haven't slept/napped my usual times, so I'm tired. |
| 21:04:09 | dom96 | Whatever the case may be, please do not act like that again Trixar_za. |
| 21:05:01 | EXetoC | uh oh |
| 21:05:08 | Trixar_za | I guess I allowed myself to be trolled and now I'm suffering the consequences. |
| 21:06:05 | dom96 | Araq: Give the man a chance. |
| 21:06:47 | reactormonk | Yes! Yes! Ban him! BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! |
| 21:07:17 | Araq | dom96: I guess you mean a 3rd chance? |
| 21:07:36 | reactormonk | Araq, temp ban? |
| 21:07:56 | Trixar_za | Eh, I don't really care. Just remember to kick too, because a ban on IRCd-Seven just mutes the user. Also if I'm going to be banned, then I would just like to say one thing. Jehan_ should get one too. He goated me even after you told me to stop. |
| 21:08:41 | dom96 | Well. I must agree with that unfortunately. |
| 21:09:05 | Araq | meh fine, whatever |
| 21:09:50 | EXetoC | yeah temp ban (if any ban). just make each successive duration increase exponentially :> |
| 21:10:18 | dom96 | I don't think there is much point now. |
| 21:10:19 | EXetoC | just saying. I'm not taking sides. Anyway, back to other things |
| 21:10:43 | Araq | Trixar_za: the new channel is #nimlang btw. ;-) |
| 21:11:07 | Trixar_za | So people don't confuse it with the other nimrod? |
| 21:11:34 | dom96 | So that Americans are not offended. |
| 21:11:38 | EXetoC | Trixar_za: do you know about the rename? |
| 21:12:01 | Trixar_za | Yes - I might idle, but I tend to read most of what goes on in here |
| 21:12:04 | dom96 | Araq: FYI you should deop. |
| 21:12:29 | Araq | dom96: no. sometimes people need to be reminded I'm not a bot |
| 21:12:37 | EXetoC | right, cus freenode <some word> |
| 21:12:45 | EXetoC | fair enough |
| 21:12:48 | dom96 | Araq: Those are the Freenode rules. |
| 21:12:57 | dom96 | Araq: Abide by them or face the consequences. |
| 21:13:13 | EXetoC | I thought they were more like guidelines |
| 21:13:17 | * | Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 21:13:19 | dom96 | EXetoC: sshhhh |
| 21:13:39 | Trixar_za | I never read the guidelines to be honest |
| 21:13:43 | dom96 | Araq: Also, bots can be opered too you know :P |
| 21:13:46 | Trixar_za | I just deop so people don't message me |
| 21:14:00 | dom96 | yeah, that's the reason to deop. |
| 21:14:25 | dom96 | I wonder what will happen once if I make this channel a redirect to another channel. |
| 21:14:44 | dom96 | Does it redirect everyone in the channel currently to the new channel? |
| 21:14:49 | dom96 | or will be people have to rejoin? |
| 21:14:51 | Trixar_za | No |
| 21:15:01 | dom96 | s/be// |
| 21:15:03 | Trixar_za | They'll have to rejoin |
| 21:15:13 | dom96 | Awww, that sucks |
| 21:15:15 | Trixar_za | most people just do a mass kick to force people to rejoin |
| 21:15:35 | dom96 | yeah, but then most people may not have autorejoin enabled. |
| 21:16:03 | * | q66_ is now known as q66 |
| 21:16:09 | Araq | dom96: btw it's actually a pretty crappy policy, because ranting over software also can hurt feelings but I enjoy ranting about unix and latex etc. too much |
| 21:16:15 | dom96 | We may lose some users, perhaps some people don't even remember why they joined this channel in the first place :P |
| 21:16:59 | dom96 | Araq: Yes, unfortunately these things are difficult. |
| 21:17:24 | dom96 | We will need to come up with something eventually though. |
| 21:17:29 | Trixar_za | I still have trouble with the whole pronunciation of TeX |
| 21:17:57 | Trixar_za | So while it's says Latex, it really Lay-TeX |
| 21:18:26 | Araq | I have other problems with the software |
| 21:18:50 | Trixar_za | That's really the only extent of my knowledge of it |
| 21:19:13 | * | mko joined #nimrod |
| 21:19:23 | Araq | for instance: "omg the layout is so amazing" ... except when latex gives up completely with "overflow hbox" |
| 21:19:30 | * | askatasuna quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 21:19:54 | dom96 | Araq: Isn't there something you have to do? |
| 21:20:03 | dom96 | You know that thing you were supposed to do yesterday? |
| 21:20:04 | Araq | I mean seriously... it's 2014 and the software cannot even do word breaks? |
| 21:20:14 | dom96 | Rants can wait. |
| 21:21:22 | Trixar_za | Apparently, it's really good with mathematical notations, which is why people complain when it's not present. |
| 21:21:33 | dom96 | Yay! |
| 21:21:44 | dom96 | I got en suite accommodation for Uni! |
| 21:22:15 | Trixar_za | Congratulations? |
| 21:22:58 | * | enurlyx left #nimrod (#nimrod) |
| 21:23:00 | wan1 | Araq: I've started reporting the issue with threads and closures https://github.com/Araq/Nimrod/issues/1517 |
| 21:23:25 | wan1 | If anyone has an input on how .global. or .threadvar. should be used |
| 21:23:53 | wan1 | I like having .global. vars read-only for threads |
| 21:24:15 | wan1 | Problem is when this global needs GC because it contains strings or else |
| 21:24:20 | EXetoC | it's just a global confined to a scope, right? |
| 21:24:46 | EXetoC | or, "global"? |
| 21:26:18 | wan1 | It's confined to a scope, if you see importing module as having access to that scope. However, should several threads have access to the same global? Is that safe? |
| 21:28:12 | Araq | well .global should mean .global, however we also need injectable .threadvars |
| 21:28:29 | Araq | for the meta programming pleasures |
| 21:29:05 | Araq | wan1: well it's a known bug, you declare a top level proc as 'closure' when it really isn't |
| 21:30:14 | wan1 | This is to emulate when I really do use closures |
| 21:30:34 | wan1 | But I agree, I should have just use a real closure |
| 21:30:46 | Araq | yeah please update the example |
| 21:31:59 | Araq | what you're after can easily be supported btw once deepCopy has been tested properly: |
| 21:32:41 | Araq | deepCopy(localClosure, myglobal[0]) # can be special cased for the gcsafety analysis |
| 21:32:42 | Trixar_za | I think I should go sleep considering my grumpiness and that this discussion is way over my head. Night guys |
| 21:33:22 | EXetoC | cya |
| 21:33:24 | wan1 | night |
| 21:39:27 | Araq | guys, does anybody of you happen to have a digital ocean referral link? |
| 21:40:12 | * | untitaker quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 21:42:11 | wan1 | There is always the LinuxActionShow stuff |
| 21:42:39 | wan1 | I think LASseptember or something |
| 21:42:48 | wan1 | The code is in their videos |
| 21:43:38 | Araq | link? |
| 21:43:43 | wan1 | oh no, lasaugust |
| 21:43:53 | wan1 | http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/65607/a-chat-with-icculus-linux-action-show-328/ |
| 21:45:38 | Araq | how is the code in their videos? |
| 21:46:15 | Araq | do I have to watch that never ending boring news about linux's future? |
| 21:46:22 | * | untitaker joined #nimrod |
| 21:48:04 | dom96 | I think LAS gets enough sponsorship. |
| 21:48:31 | wan1 | I told you the code, though I didn't mark it up: "lasaugust". It's in the page |
| 21:49:01 | wan1 | In the thanks to DigitalOcean pic |
| 21:49:48 | Araq | what the ...? how can you deop me? |
| 21:50:03 | Araq | wan1: ok sorry! |
| 21:51:03 | * | wan1 is now known as wan |
| 21:53:03 | * | Rational joined #nimrod |
| 21:53:07 | wan | Alright, with .threadvar. and real closures I can make something that works, however it's not what I want |
| 21:53:26 | wan | Can I run the main scope of a module, but on a thread? |
| 21:53:51 | Araq | hi Rational welcome |
| 21:54:17 | Araq | wan: no you won't be able to do *that* anytime soon |
| 21:54:30 | Araq | why is that even a problem worth solving? |
| 21:54:57 | Rational | hi :) |
| 21:55:37 | Araq | damn you, wan, now I have to watch this ... lol |
| 21:55:43 | wan | It's for jester-like macros |
| 21:56:03 | wan | They register procs or closures with a global or threadvar |
| 21:56:54 | Araq | wan: yes, well as I said, reading from .global will be allowed |
| 21:56:55 | wan | I'm trying to search if I can keep the same user-side code |
| 21:58:16 | wan | Oh, then I guess I just have to pinpoint the weird stuff I'm doing to find the bug I experience |
| 21:58:37 | wan | Or re-implement it without closures |
| 22:00:06 | reactormonk | Rational, sup |
| 22:02:12 | wan | (I just remembered why I was using closures: for every path (e.g. "/user/@bla"), I was generating a type tuple[bla: string], declaring a variable of that type, generating a proc/closure using it, giving that proc to the global my_routes. All of this for compile-time checking of params.bla -> ok, params.bli -> compile-time error) |
| 22:03:25 | wan | (instead of a runtime error if using a StringTable instead of a specialized tuple) |
| 22:03:27 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod bigbreak 9a3963f Zahary Karadjov [+0 ±3 -0]: fix #959... 3 more lines |
| 22:03:27 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod bigbreak 7d5e387 Zahary Karadjov [+0 ±2 -0]: mostly fixes #1339... 9 more lines |
| 22:03:57 | Araq | omg! zahary is back |
| 22:04:04 | EXetoC | oooh |
| 22:04:29 | * | nlf joined #nimrod |
| 22:04:48 | Araq | hi nlf welcome ... what's up tonight? |
| 22:04:56 | zahary | :) |
| 22:05:19 | dom96 | yay zahary |
| 22:05:23 | nlf | just tinkering with nimrod, seeing what it's like |
| 22:05:30 | zahary | I think you'll be finally seeing more of me again |
| 22:05:42 | nlf | had a question, is there a getpass equivalent? basically a masked stdin readline |
| 22:06:49 | dom96 | nlf: I don't think so. That would be a nice addition to the terminal module though. |
| 22:07:06 | dom96 | zahary: What changed? |
| 22:07:14 | EXetoC | readline itself can't do that? |
| 22:08:10 | dom96 | Not sure how that is implemented. I'm assuming you have to echo some magic stuff to the terminal. |
| 22:09:20 | Araq | you have to wrap some OS specific thing, I think |
| 22:09:40 | wan | I think it's an escape sequence that does the same as ctrl-s, isn't it? |
| 22:09:47 | * | Mat3 joined #nimrod |
| 22:09:53 | Mat3 | hello |
| 22:10:13 | Araq | wan: escape sequences are OS specific, windows has an API instead |
| 22:10:48 | Araq | which btw means redirecting output works on windows and doesn't on unix ;-) |
| 22:10:59 | zahary | btw, are we going for strong-spaces by default with the rest of the brave changes in bigbreak? |
| 22:11:06 | Araq | hi Mat3 |
| 22:11:38 | Araq | zahary: no, I need to merge my comment handling changes, but strong-spaces are not tested well enough |
| 22:12:14 | Mat3 | hmm, there still exist an ansi.sys driver somewhere for those who demand terminal emulation |
| 22:14:14 | nlf | i'd settle for disabling echo.. but i haven't been able to figure that out yet either |
| 22:14:55 | * | Mat3 prefers an OS/2 like API for controlling terminal attributes |
| 22:16:22 | Araq | zahary: also the changes are done to scare fewer people away ;-) strong-spaces works against that |
| 22:21:33 | zahary | "uncompromising beauty" could be the other explanation :) |
| 22:23:15 | zahary | have anyone with large codebase switched to bigbreak already btw? fowl? |
| 22:24:06 | reactormonk | what does the bigbreak kick exactly? |
| 22:24:56 | Araq | I don't think so. I'm still working on nimfix to make the transition as painless as possible |
| 22:26:05 | Mat3 | reads like another format specific kind of block identification |
| 22:27:01 | Araq | reactormonk: we got rid of most T/P prefixes and replaced them with Ref and Obj suffixes |
| 22:27:09 | reactormonk | cool |
| 22:27:20 | Araq | we'll advertise it as the ultimate bike shedding release :-) |
| 22:27:39 | reactormonk | rather bike shredding? |
| 22:27:57 | * | nlf left #nimrod ("Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com") |
| 22:28:14 | Mat3 | fine, how about bike recycling ? |
| 22:31:10 | Mat3 | as sidenote: https://github.com/adoxa/ansicon - this is a recent ANSI emulation driver for Windows console programs (recent because it works with Windows 7 and later) |
| 22:32:35 | Araq | Mat3: I prefer to use the sane way, escape sequences are a hack anyway |
| 22:33:28 | Araq | and typical for unix's absurd "let's avoid APIs whereever we can", but I digress |
| 22:36:24 | Mat3 | well, Un*x itself started as some kind of hack so I think this attititute was caused in the prefered programming philosophy of its creators |
| 22:39:52 | Mat3 | anyhow, this terminal emulation hack help porting Posix alike applications to Windows without needing an API layer like cygwin |
| 22:40:01 | Mat3 | so it is of use |
| 22:40:15 | Araq | we already have this api layer and it's called terminal.nim |
| 22:40:55 | Mat3 | right, I forgot |
| 22:41:42 | Mat3 | need some sleep, ciao |
| 22:41:43 | wan | Un*x is like "APIs? Why u no like files?" |
| 22:42:38 | Mat3 | why you don't like channels and there overabstracted drivers for everythinbg |
| 22:42:50 | Mat3 | ^everything |
| 22:42:58 | Mat3 | the result is Plan 9 |
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| 23:17:43 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod bigbreak 4c870fc Araq [+0 ±1 -0]: fixes recently introduced regression |
| 23:17:43 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod bigbreak bf557a7 Araq [+2 ±7 -0]: added nimfix tool |
| 23:17:43 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod bigbreak bd4e229 Araq [+0 ±5 -0]: Merge branch 'bigbreak' of https://github.com/Araq/Nimrod into bigbreak |
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