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| 04:07:30 | FromDiscord | <xtrayambak> Hey guys, why does nix-env keep failing? |
| 04:07:37 | FromDiscord | <xtrayambak> Oh shoot |
| 04:07:38 | FromDiscord | <xtrayambak> wait |
| 04:07:42 | FromDiscord | <xtrayambak> oh geez |
| 04:07:54 | FromDiscord | <xtrayambak> I should look at the logo of the server before talking in it |
| 04:07:58 | FromDiscord | <xtrayambak> this is the Nim server |
| 04:08:01 | FromDiscord | <xtrayambak> not the Nix server |
| 04:08:04 | FromDiscord | <xtrayambak> woopsies |
| 04:08:05 | FromDiscord | <xtrayambak> sorry |
| 08:42:19 | FromDiscord | <Phil> In reply to @xtrayambak "not the Nix server": 😄 All good |
| 08:44:21 | FromDiscord | <Phil> ... Can a template actually have a typed body? I never tried |
| 08:45:38 | FromDiscord | <Phil> You can, hmmm I wonder what the limitations are because |
| 08:45:55 | FromDiscord | <Phil> (edit) "You can, hmmm I wonder what the limitations are because ... " added "a template needs to always get completely valid code since it doesn't manipulate it" |
| 08:46:21 | FromDiscord | <Phil> (edit) "it" => "it.↵So basically from what I can tell typed and untyped should both behave kinda similar in that you insert the code and that must be valid to compile" |
| 09:03:46 | FromDiscord | <Phil> sent a long message, see http://ix.io/4KEF |
| 09:16:32 | FromDiscord | <pcarrier> a bit unclear how JSON works. would like to customize serialization of my data type and be able to deserialize into it; are there good docs / guides I've missed? |
| 09:16:49 | FromDiscord | <pcarrier> (edit) "JSON works." => "std/json{,utils} work." |
| 09:16:55 | FromDiscord | <pcarrier> (edit) "std/json{,utils}" => "`std/json{,utils}`" |
| 09:17:31 | FromDiscord | <Phil> Personally I use jsony for the same task as it is faster and doesn't deal with object variants. And I personally find it easier to wrap my head around |
| 09:19:19 | FromDiscord | <pcarrier> jsony it is |
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| 09:21:10 | FromDiscord | <nnsee> In reply to @isofruit "Personally I use jsony": I think what disturbed me about jsony is that it does automatic snake_case to camelCase conversion when reading json, but not the other way around. Makes passing json messages back and forth a lot more difficult than it needs to be |
| 09:21:42 | FromDiscord | <Phil> In reply to @nnsee "I think what disturbed": tbf how is jsony supposed to know what output you'd want?↵... well I guess it could have a compiler switch |
| 09:22:04 | FromDiscord | <Phil> Or a proc param |
| 09:22:17 | FromDiscord | <nnsee> I would simply take a define time flag that just disables the automatic conversion |
| 09:22:27 | FromDiscord | <nnsee> (edit) "I would simply take a ... define" added "compile time" | removed "time flag" |
| 09:23:42 | FromDiscord | <Phil> ... Does anyone have a decent guide on how to debug memory leaks that isn't immediately a C-guide? |
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| 09:44:19 | NimEventer | New thread by domogled: Import js variables with two types, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/10602 |
| 10:02:49 | FromDiscord | <pcarrier> I don’t get where jsony gets its parseInt / parseFloat from |
| 10:04:45 | Amun-Ra | std/strutils? |
| 10:05:26 | FromDiscord | <Phil> In reply to @pcarrier "I don’t get where": strutils typically has the things to parse stuff from string to other value |
| 10:05:49 | FromDiscord | <Phil> Though you can of course always also just copy paste the proc name into nim's search box |
| 10:06:05 | FromDiscord | <Phil> That'll lead you to where you want to go directly 😄 https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1170302939152265216/image.png?ex=65588c8b&is=6546178b&hm=d8d8604c651636f6306a7134dee011e7ebbec434d0f0bbb1cf3676e3177ff662& |
| 10:07:04 | Amun-Ra | nim search bar may or may not work (try searching posix's getrlimit) |
| 10:09:10 | FromDiscord | <Phil> I'd regard that as the exception because from what I can tell you can't find anything from posix period |
| 10:09:36 | Amun-Ra | yes |
| 10:10:07 | Amun-Ra | IIRC that worked before |
| 10:10:56 | FromDiscord | <Phil> Hmm pcre and db_connector also aren't searched properly |
| 10:11:22 | FromDiscord | <Phil> as is std/openssl, seems to be a wrapper thing |
| 11:09:57 | FromDiscord | <pcarrier> can a `ref` be `nil`? |
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| 11:30:32 | Amun-Ra | yes |
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| 11:51:33 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @isofruit "Hmm pcre and db_connector": Db_connector was moved out of stdlib, I'd imagine it'd be hard to find in the stdlib :p |
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| 15:38:49 | FromDiscord | <Malik> Can someone recommend the aur package https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/nim-git ? I really prefer using a package manager but I am on Artix Linux |
| 15:57:08 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @Malik "Can someone recommend the": Nim isn't great for package managers, you're better off using Choosenim |
| 15:57:49 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> Nim expects the binary to be in the same folder as the libraries, idk how the AUR package does it but |
| 16:15:18 | FromDiscord | <.aingel.> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "Nim isn't great for": Have you ever used asdf |
| 16:15:58 | FromDiscord | <.aingel.> I wonder if it would be hard to make an asdf plugin for nim. I've moved to asdf for like all my other lang version managers, like for ruby, crystal, python, node etc |
| 16:19:53 | FromDiscord | <nnsee> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "Nim expects the binary": is this resolved through symlinks? |
| 16:20:09 | FromDiscord | <nnsee> worst case scenario you need a wrapper script for it |
| 16:22:57 | FromDiscord | <intellij_gamer> In reply to @.aingel. "I wonder if it": Already exists https://github.com/asdf-community/asdf-nim↵Used it on my pi and it works well enough. Only issue was nimble packages disappearing when I change versions |
| 16:24:52 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @.aingel. "Have you ever used": I have not |
| 16:24:56 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @nnsee "is this resolved through": Not sure |
| 16:29:30 | FromDiscord | <.aingel.> In reply to @intellij_gamer "Already exists https://github.com/asdf-community/as": Ooh awesome, but hmm |
| 16:29:40 | FromDiscord | <.aingel.> That problem seems to be kinda significant no? |
| 16:29:45 | FromDiscord | <.aingel.> Do all the packages disappear? |
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| 16:33:13 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @.aingel. "Do all the packages": They're in the folder for the version you installed it with |
| 16:33:21 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> I'd still use choosenim for this reason tbh |
| 16:33:32 | FromDiscord | <.aingel.> Oh that's fine then |
| 16:33:46 | FromDiscord | <.aingel.> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "I'd still use choosenim": Why? Cause that problem is still there with choosenim, no? |
| 16:34:31 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> Not at all, choosenim has `.nimble` in the home dir which persists for all versions no matter what you switch to |
| 16:52:43 | FromDiscord | <.aingel.> Oh but aren't they diff for nim 2 or nim 1 |
| 16:59:30 | FromDiscord | <odexine> But they are different for nimble 0.13 and 0.14 (pkgs vs pkgs2) |
| 16:59:34 | FromDiscord | <odexine> No? |
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| 18:00:15 | FromDiscord | <.aingel.> Not sure about that @odexine |
| 18:00:22 | FromDiscord | <.aingel.> I just experienced it when upgrading to nim 2 |
| 18:01:14 | FromDiscord | <odexine> Because it came with 0.14 as well |
| 18:04:29 | FromDiscord | <.aingel.> Gotcha |
| 18:23:12 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> Wondering if storing the primary key of an object as a reference to it is suitable or not |
| 18:23:24 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> I think it is, since nothing will be removed from that table |
| 18:28:15 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> Wonder what I'd do for things such as storing attachments hm... |
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| 20:29:20 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> Wondering how I'll handle rate-limiting too oof |
| 20:51:28 | FromDiscord | <.aingel.> What are you making again@ @Chronos [She/Her] |
| 20:52:46 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> Chat platform aha |
| 20:53:34 | NimEventer | New thread by TKD: How to pass an optional table as an argument to a function?, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/10605 |
| 20:57:19 | FromDiscord | <.aingel.> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "Chat platform aha": What's it doing different |
| 20:57:20 | FromDiscord | <.aingel.> (edit) "different" => "different?" |
| 21:13:20 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @.aingel. "What's it doing different?": Well, it's supposed to be a decentralised chat platform that's much closer (and hopefully simpler in some ways) to Discord, and hopefully will be pretty extendable |
| 21:19:04 | FromDiscord | <.aingel.> Ah gotcha |
| 21:19:06 | FromDiscord | <.aingel.> That's cool |
| 21:19:13 | FromDiscord | <.aingel.> Yeah matrix is sort of a total mess |
| 21:19:25 | FromDiscord | <.aingel.> And uses way to much resources apparently or something |
| 21:19:30 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> Seems complicated but probably a reason for it? |
| 21:19:32 | FromDiscord | <.aingel.> I don't get why it's so complicated |
| 21:19:46 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @.aingel. "And uses way to": The clients or homeservers? |
| 21:19:49 | FromDiscord | <.aingel.> The server |
| 21:20:22 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> Ah fair |
| 21:22:02 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Eh dendrite and also Matrix's 2.0 reduces load |
| 21:24:19 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> Doesn't solve the issue of Matrix's protocol apparently being a PITA to implement |
| 21:24:39 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> It's all rest APIs |
| 21:24:47 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> It's just busy work more than a pain |
| 21:24:49 | FromDiscord | <leorize> matrix being federated means that running a homeserver equals to replicating any rooms you join |
| 21:25:19 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> Replicating the rooms? |
| 21:25:55 | FromDiscord | <leorize> so there are some physical resource constraints |
| 21:25:55 | FromDiscord | <leorize> yes, matrix rooms are on every server that participates in them |
| 21:26:23 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> It's par for the course though |
| 21:26:51 | FromDiscord | <leorize> if you're looking to build a system, start centralized first |
| 21:27:32 | FromDiscord | <leorize> building a decentralized system is /really/ hard, esp if you want people in different servers to talk to one another |
| 21:28:01 | FromDiscord | <.aingel.> True |
| 21:28:03 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @Elegantbeef "It's par for the": How so? Why not just use home servers for authentication rather than cloning a room essentially, what situations would the server need to communicate excluding user auth? |
| 21:28:31 | FromDiscord | <.aingel.> Room history |
| 21:28:32 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @leorize "if you're looking to": Yeah that's what I'm doing, it'll be tacked on after I get the local stuff working first aha |
| 21:28:45 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> What other reason would you have decentralization 😄 |
| 21:29:12 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> I mean you connect to your home server and only talk to your home server |
| 21:30:14 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Not mirroring rooms results in reliance on a homeserver |
| 21:30:56 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Afaik if a homeserver you've talked to goes down you still have a mirror of the chat and media your server has copied |
| 21:31:07 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> Ah fair |
| 21:31:49 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> I was planning on using the server the user's account runs on, as a way of authenticating them to talk in another place |
| 21:32:08 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> It's sorta akin to if you relied on the first email server in a email chain to see the entire email chain |
| 21:32:45 | FromDiscord | <leorize> then the identity manager would be the server hosting the room with your model↵(@Chronos [She/Her]) |
| 21:36:54 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @leorize "then the identity manager": I don't get what you mean exactly? Why would this force the server hosting the user to use rooms on the same server? Unless I'm misunderstanding as usual aha |
| 21:41:06 | FromDiscord | <leorize> it's a problem of identity |
| 21:41:30 | FromDiscord | <leorize> the server hosting the room can advertise any identity for a message |
| 21:41:42 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Yea this seems like an ill designed system, if verification is done remotely there is no verification |
| 21:42:06 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> It's practically oauth, but you can spool up any server to give a token |
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| 21:45:59 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Though perhaps I'm an idiot 😄 |
| 21:46:06 | FromDiscord | <leorize> and fwiw a system that uses one protocol but multiple independent server already exists |
| 21:46:15 | FromDiscord | <leorize> we call it IRC |
| 21:46:32 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> And freenode shows the issue with that entire system 😛 |
| 21:48:55 | FromDiscord | <huantian> but they had free in their name |
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| 21:50:31 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @leorize "the server hosting the": Ah makes sense |
| 21:51:08 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> So then, doing what Matrix does (cloning the room locally) just makes more sense then? |
| 21:51:29 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Not free from the constitutional monarchy!↵(@huantian) |
| 21:51:40 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Well there are multiple benefits for cloning |
| 21:51:49 | FromDiscord | <leorize> we don't know↵(@Chronos [She/Her]) |
| 21:51:54 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> It reduces load on home servers that have many users |
| 21:52:02 | FromDiscord | <leorize> there are many ways to do this |
| 21:52:03 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> It also can reduce latency |
| 21:52:27 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @leorize "there are many ways": I can only see two aha- |
| 21:52:58 | FromDiscord | <leorize> I think ietf is brewing a messaging spec too, if you're interested |
| 21:53:25 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @Elegantbeef "It also can reduce": Since it'd be saved on the server, reducing the amount of servers a client/the server has to make a request to? |
| 21:53:55 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @leorize "I think ietf is": Quick google search seems to say it's for E2E |
| 21:55:13 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "Since it'd be saved": What if instead of cloning the room in it's entirety, I just store 4 things? The message content, it's ID, the user sending it, and the ID of the message it's replying to? |
| 21:55:50 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> Though I'd imagine this gives much more importance on server to server communication which makes sense |
| 21:56:21 | FromDiscord | <leorize> https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/mimi/about/ |
| 21:56:21 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Well say you have a homeserver hosting a room in the UK and I connect to it from a Canadian homeserver, I leave for a bit then comeback, since you were sending messages to the homeserver I just request it from my homeserver and get everything at lower latency |
| 21:56:21 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> It's the same premise as a video platform duplicating files across the globe to reduce latency and internet load |
| 21:56:23 | FromDiscord | <leorize> though replication means you'd have to handle conflict resolution |
| 21:56:56 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Well I don't see why you'd want decentralised that didnt do that |
| 21:57:02 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @Elegantbeef "Well say you have": Makes sense |
| 21:57:20 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Decentralised and federated go hand and hand imo |
| 21:57:32 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> hand in hand even |
| 21:57:54 | FromDiscord | <huantian> what about hand with hand |
| 21:58:01 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Nah |
| 21:58:04 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> That's just weird |
| 21:58:17 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @leorize "https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/mimi/about/": Thanks! |
| 21:58:20 | FromDiscord | <huantian> hand between hand |
| 21:59:24 | FromDiscord | <leorize> those who don't know history will ends up repeating it, so make sure you study current designs if you want to root out flaws and make something better |
| 22:00:51 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> They especially end up repeating if they do not have conflict resolution |
| 22:00:56 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> They especially end up repeating if they do not have conflict resolution |
| 22:03:30 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> To be fair, that is why I'm talking about stuff as it comes to mind XD |
| 22:03:45 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> In reply to @Elegantbeef "They especially end up": I see what you did there lol, not sure how I'd do that tho |
| 22:04:28 | FromDiscord | <leorize> matrix, xmpp and mimi specs are all there for you to read \:p |
| 22:04:52 | FromDiscord | <leorize> although with mimi you're better off reading their chats instead |
| 22:05:25 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> I'm starting with XMPP just to get a grip on it |
| 22:08:37 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> I really hope you seen what I did chronos, that's like the lowest hanging joke |
| 22:09:32 | FromDiscord | <Chronos [She/Her]> Yes yes I did xD |
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| 23:45:45 | FromDiscord | <JJ> beef 🤝 low hanging jokes |
| 23:45:47 | FromDiscord | <JJ> (sorry) |
| 23:46:52 | FromDiscord | <JJ> i do wish xmpp didn't die. fond memories of talking with friends early on it. plus there's all the stuff that's been built on top of it, recently i learned you can get a phone number connected to it for like $5 a month |
| 23:47:28 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Who are you apologising to, the truth is the truth |
| 23:48:04 | FromDiscord | <JJ> & i've yet to find a matrix client that won't hang for 60 seconds + upon opening it (i think a lot of it is due to it loading weeks and weeks of messages at a time) |
| 23:49:02 | FromDiscord | <JJ> we need a new messaging standard that is like all of the others but better (half-serious) |
| 23:49:47 | FromDiscord | <JJ> oh yeah i was wondering actually. what's the benefit of typed macros? i've seen some say they're strictly better than untyped macros once you get used to them. |
| 23:50:47 | FromDiscord | <JJ> "some" being just araq i believe lol |
