00:01:00 | Araq | cryzed: your --path is wrong and Nim finds 2 different ast.nim modules or something like that |
00:01:11 | Araq | and the error message is suboptimal :P |
00:03:43 | cryzed | ah. |
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08:12:42 | yglukhov | Araq: hi. tbh, i don't remember how to translate goto to js. could you remind please? |
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08:14:13 | yglukhov | i suppose it could be done by wrapping the code to (while true) + switch? |
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09:29:26 | Araq | yglukhov: exactly. that is in fact the only way. (modulo stuff that is bijective to this solution) |
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09:54:54 | flyx | Araq: in your slides, you write the parts of Nim syntax people don't like are from Delphi. I don't know Delphi, which features are meant by that? |
09:55:24 | Araq | type sections |
09:55:39 | Araq | newcomers also tend to dislike 'result' |
09:55:45 | Araq | (before they love it :P ) |
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09:57:10 | flyx | okay, thanks |
09:57:29 | flyx | also, are there any new thoughts about making „not nil“ default? |
09:57:34 | Araq | 'case' statements perhaps |
09:57:49 | Araq | "not nil" as default is coming, but incrementally |
09:58:00 | Araq | tried to update the compiler, had to give up |
09:58:09 | Araq | converting this amount of code is not trivial |
09:58:19 | flyx | I can imagine that |
09:58:24 | Araq | but the results were nice, so I'm quite convinced it actually improves the language |
09:58:42 | flyx | it's just good to know, I'm giving a talk tomorrow so I'd like to be prepared if people ask |
10:01:25 | Araq | oh, cool. |
10:01:37 | Araq | want me to review your slides? |
10:02:44 | flyx | it's not solely about Nim, I also have a look at Rust and Terra and do some comparisons |
10:03:41 | Araq | I can likely also review your Rust slides :P |
10:03:42 | flyx | I also just have half an hour, so I won't get much into the details of any language, so I don't think I need reviewing, but thanks for the offer |
10:04:26 | flyx | it's more like a „look at all these cool things you can try out“ |
10:05:18 | flyx | moreover I'm late with my slides (because I'm lazy), so there probably won't be time for reviewing |
10:09:47 | Araq | alright |
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15:45:50 | yglukhov | dom96: thanks for merging libzip. could you please enable appveyor back, so i can continue testing? |
15:46:02 | dom96 | yglukhov: will do |
15:46:36 | dom96 | done |
15:46:41 | yglukhov | thanks! |
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15:54:01 | yglukhov | dom96, btw list of nimble packages is broken at http://nim-lang.org/docs/lib.html |
15:54:51 | dom96 | yglukhov: thanks for letting me know |
15:54:55 | dom96 | These damn trailing commas :\ |
15:55:14 | yglukhov | why not setting up a travis to verify? |
15:55:15 | yglukhov | =) |
15:55:27 | yglukhov | it's like 5 min of work |
15:56:17 | dom96 | It's already verified, Nim's json parser doesn't mind trailing commas though |
15:57:21 | yglukhov | ahhh ok |
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16:42:48 | cryzed | Whoever suggested me to use Atom + the plugin, it's really good |
16:42:56 | cryzed | It's what I'm going to use for now |
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16:44:17 | nchambers | I would use it but I don't like atom :L damn browser |
16:44:42 | theduke | hmpf. I wish Nim and the stdlib were less immature and buggy. It's such a nice language, but in it's current state, u really can't responsibly use Nim for professional work that a client might depend on for years. |
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16:46:16 | dom96 | theduke: In what way do you think the stdlib is immature? |
16:46:58 | cryzed | nchambers, me neither -- but the autocompletion with nimsuggest is worth it |
16:47:38 | nchambers | cryzed, :D |
16:47:49 | cryzed | and st3 is slowly but surely dying |
16:48:00 | nchambers | nuuu I just started liking it |
16:48:12 | dom96 | cryzed: is it? |
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16:48:25 | dom96 | It's still being developed is it not? |
16:49:14 | cryzed | dom96, yeah it is. I paid for it -- I don't say this easily. There are many outstanding bugs, especially for Linux systems that cause regular freezes and crashes. The forum is filled with spam, the last update with minimal new bugfixes/features was 6 months ago -- after over a year of inactivity and a short burst (1-2 weeks) of development |
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16:49:31 | cryzed | You get the feeling if any updates at all continue to be released it's just so that it looks alive |
16:50:04 | cryzed | but jps hasn't been active in forever in the forums, AGAIN, nor in the IRC channel. Questions about the development status aren't and haven't been answered for ages, neither by him or his associates (PR manager) |
16:50:36 | cryzed | If you want to call the current state development, sure |
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16:51:26 | cryzed | http://www.sublimetext.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2 |
16:51:31 | cryzed | look at this, it's embarrassing |
16:52:35 | theduke | I can write it up in more detail if i have some time on the weekend. But I just constantly stumble over bugs and limitations which i really can't deal with for work. (psql driver is practically completely broken when u use argument substitution, utf8 validation is way too simplistic - i sent a little patch but the isValidUtf8 needs way more work, memory leaks, etc etc) |
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16:53:41 | theduke | I said this earlier once, the state is understandable, there's no monetary backing by any company. Nim is, as I see it, basically a hobby project for a few people. With really great results, like i said, the language is great. |
16:55:29 | theduke | but the development is not managed very professionally at all. And what if Arraq or you, dom96, or some of the the other few active contributors go away for some reason. |
16:55:45 | theduke | the ecosystem is very small too |
16:55:54 | theduke | i really can't use nim for anything but hobby projects |
16:56:20 | theduke | shame, but the way it is for me |
16:57:29 | theduke | I can't build on a language that would most likely be dead if the main contributor goes away |
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16:58:30 | dom96 | That's sad to hear. |
16:59:00 | theduke | i'll gladly use it for private stuff though |
16:59:15 | dom96 | That's good! |
16:59:45 | cryzed | Well the concerns aren't unreasonable I feel, hopefully much of this will change with the 1.0 release |
17:00:41 | coffeepot | can you use postgre with odbc? I made one that has proper parameters if that helps? |
17:00:48 | Arrrr | Meanwhile swift has now 16k stars on github, i think it is the most popular language there |
17:01:15 | coffeepot | I do wish Nim got more traction, it doesn't make sense really, it's such a great language imho |
17:02:18 | coffeepot | *made an odbc library I mean |
17:03:12 | dom96 | That's unfortunately how it is nowadays |
17:03:29 | dom96 | I bet you guys didn't realise the languages that were created by the people who are now working on Swift |
17:04:26 | theduke | well, swift is created by a big company with deep pockets and lot's of engaged developers (ios apps) |
17:04:35 | theduke | but swift is a nice language actually, i think |
17:05:28 | Arrrr | No, do they created other languages? |
17:06:34 | coffeepot | theduke: it'd be interesting to see what your list of broken things is, because if you're trying to use Nim in a work environment and you have issues, fixing those issues would make a huge difference to, well... being able to use it for business |
17:06:55 | ephja | sweet lock-in |
17:07:45 | coffeepot | Nim has so much potential, huge range of native targets and JS, just seems like it just needs to get more exposure |
17:09:03 | Arrrr | Yep, some come here because they see nim for game development, maybe with a noob friendly game engine it can get more attention |
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17:11:06 | cryzed | Wasn't someone attempting to port an Entity library focused on games in the forums? |
17:11:11 | cryzed | Pretty sure it was dom |
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17:11:49 | coffeepot | I'm doing my own entity engine too, but mainly for myself. However if it works ok I'll release it to github |
17:12:03 | cryzed | coffeepot, are you writing a game? |
17:12:09 | coffeepot | trying to yeah |
17:12:15 | cryzed | coffeepot, can I know more? |
17:12:17 | cryzed | Just curious |
17:12:19 | cryzed | what kind of game |
17:12:22 | cryzed | sdl2 wrapper? |
17:15:06 | coffeepot | well I started off doing a voxel game, sdl2, opengl, but it kinda got a bit laborious and I realised to get decent performance I'd have to learn to write shaders for the octrees etc which I couldn't be arsed to do right now (It's on my huge to do list), so am trying to do a simple 2d game for now |
17:15:15 | coffeepot | which is just sdl2 |
17:15:26 | coffeepot | and hence the entity framework engine |
17:15:43 | kulelu88 | a game in nim = awweeeesssooommmeeee |
17:15:57 | ephja | https://github.com/3dicc/Urhonimo |
17:15:59 | coffeepot | it will probably be an asteroids style game - wanted something simple :) |
17:16:13 | cryzed | neat :) |
17:17:00 | Arrrr | ephja: it is possible using your glfw port to specify where the dll is located? |
17:17:05 | Arrrr | Or would be possible? |
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17:21:05 | coffeepot | right I'm off, have a good weekend everyone :) |
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17:22:55 | ephja | Arrrr: I dunno. why can't you put it in the same dir as the exe? |
17:24:45 | Arrrr | Just a preference |
17:25:43 | ephja | ok. there's -rpath for gcc. I wonder if it works on windows too |
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17:30:30 | ephja | and SetDllDirectory in windows.h, if there's a way to shove that into the current construct somehow |
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17:32:51 | Arrrr | hmm |
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17:55:01 | dom96 | Here is a nice stargazer-ranked comparison of all programming languages on Github: https://github.com/showcases/programming-languages |
17:55:08 | dom96 | Swift is indeed the most starred |
17:55:19 | dom96 | and only in like a day |
17:55:20 | dom96 | amazing |
17:57:43 | ephja | we aren't doing too bad considering the lack of manpower |
17:58:49 | Arrrr | you are right, nim is taken into consideration |
18:01:05 | Arrrr | For some reason crystal is not there |
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18:22:45 | ephja | when might instantiationInfo() return ("???", -1)? |
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18:35:10 | ephja | the fullPaths parameter seemed to have no effect (the full path was always returned), but I can only get it to print the previously mentioned tuple when trying to create a minimal test case |
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18:56:55 | Araq | ephja: if there is no instantiation info, it's ("???", -1) |
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19:04:50 | ephja | Araq: ok, but this is a module containing just "echo instantiationInfo()" |
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19:24:00 | Arrrr | Why not ("NoInfo", -1) |
19:24:49 | Araq | ephja: guess what. instantiation info is only avalaible when you instantiate something. |
19:25:04 | Araq | module import is not an instantiation |
19:25:14 | Araq | and I'm quite sure this thing is documented. |
19:26:11 | Araq | theduke: funny, if all the guys who cry for more Nim support would actually *pay* for more Nim support, I wouldn't have to have a $dayjob. |
19:26:41 | ephja | I've tried to introduce several layers of procs too |
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19:29:32 | Araq | ephja: instantiation means template or macro |
19:30:06 | Araq | and generic procs, but I'm not sure instantiationInfo supports generics |
19:33:31 | theduke | Araq: I wasn't really complaining. just stating the facts. And whining a bit, probably. ^^ |
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19:35:31 | ephja | I just expected it to work everywhere. is there anything that will in debug and release mode? though I don't need it, but now I can try to fix the fullPaths bug |
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19:42:53 | ephja | I think the issue appears when instantiationInfo() is in a dependent module residing in another directory |
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19:44:56 | ephja | so info.toFullPath and info.toFilename are the same in this case, so I guess getInfoContext returns the wrong info |
19:46:40 | Araq | ephja: I don't think instantiationInfo should return full paths. |
19:47:04 | ephja | presumably not when fullPaths is false, which is the default |
19:47:20 | Araq | oh, so there is a switch for that, interesting |
19:47:31 | ephja | I'm going to inspect msgContext now |
19:47:49 | ephja | a parameter for instantiationInfo to be exact |
19:54:18 | ephja | Araq: how do I print conditionally in the compiler? though it might not be necessary this time |
19:56:01 | ephja | http://nim-lang.org/docs/intern.html#debugging-the-compiler |
19:56:33 | Araq | if n.info ?? "temp": |
19:56:36 | Araq | echo n |
19:56:52 | Araq | if your test file is called temp.nim, that is |
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19:57:43 | ephja | yes I found it in that document |
19:58:09 | Araq | yeah, but move it to the front |
19:58:13 | Araq | PRs welcome |
19:58:21 | Araq | and perhaps remove the other stuff |
19:58:45 | Araq | nobody seems to be able to read it, so maybe we need less text |
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20:20:38 | mat4 | hello |
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20:47:06 | mat4 | Araq: where can I find your slides ? |
20:48:44 | Araq | hrm I need to upload them somewhere I guess |
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20:49:15 | mat4 | would be nice |
20:51:20 | Araq | I will do it later ok? |
20:51:43 | mat4 | that's ok |
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22:19:48 | pilne | if i found a way to build some binaries for various linuxes, would that be helpful? |
22:21:15 | mat4 | how the build process differ (never had a problem building for different Linux distros) ? |
22:21:50 | pilne | i just noticed they weren't on the website, and i think openSUSE's online build service could generate .deb and .rpm files for download |
22:22:42 | pilne | and... since i'm a oSUSE fanboy, it would give me a way to get to know that feature of oSUSE and help a language i'm enjoying more each day (: |
22:23:12 | mat4 | ok, you mean building packages for different distributions, I see |
22:23:25 | pilne | yes |
22:24:56 | mat4 | personally I think this as obvious useful. You should ask Araq |
22:25:18 | pilne | well, i'll start poking around the system and getting familiar with it as well |
22:26:25 | Araq | I like these things but only if you can ensure me you'll do it on time for a couple of upcoming releases at least |
22:26:41 | pilne | let me see what the process involves, and i will let you know if that is feasible (: |
22:27:25 | pilne | i should be able to whip up at least a rpm for opensuse tonight, if it doesn't take forever and a day to do, i should be able to maintain it for all the supported platforms of the build service |
22:30:53 | mat4 | the most frequented Linux distributions sem to be: Ubuntu[Mint...] (deb), Fedora[RedHat...] (rpm), Suse [rpm?] and Arch Linux |
22:30:59 | mat4 | ^seem |
22:31:02 | pilne | ok |
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22:33:08 | pilne | ugh... non-fun shit just came up, i should be back shortly to get started on this, i'll do a 'buntu compatible one first if there is anyone that could test it, i'm on suse, so i'll do that first otherwise, just pm me so i know who to talk with when i get back (: |
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22:36:47 | * | mat4 suppose pm means either 'ping me' or 'presentation manager' ;) |
22:39:08 | ephja | private message |
22:39:29 | mat4 | Araq: If he is willing to manage package building, there need to be tested out |
22:39:35 | mat4 | ephja: thanks |
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22:47:19 | NimBot | nim-lang/Nim devel 5c0ffa6 Andreas Rumpf [+1 ±3 -1]: fixes #3622 |
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