<< 07-03-2023 >>
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00:42:54FromDiscord<ajusa> I will try
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01:24:17NimEventerNew Nimble package! palladian - A Frontend Web Framework for Nim based on Preact, see https://github.com/itsumura-h/nim-palladian
01:34:34FromDiscord<auxym> so `nimscript` has `buildos`, but that doesn't seem to be available for comptime stuff. How can I do something like `when buildOs == "linux"`?
01:36:38FromDiscord<ringabout> when defined(linux)?
01:39:58FromDiscord<auxym> doesn't work when cross compiling
01:41:19FromDiscord<auxym> wait
01:41:27FromDiscord<auxym> no
01:42:01FromDiscord<auxym> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4q8a
01:42:10FromDiscord<auxym> even if i'm building on linux
02:01:29FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Afaik there is no mechanism to check the OS of the compiler
02:02:05FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> A hack would be to do `getCurrentCompilerExe` or similar and checking if it starts with a letter or a `/`
02:04:57FromDiscord<auxym> i can't even call `getCurrentCompilerExe` if compiling with `os:any`
02:07:14FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Oh that's in OS
02:07:15FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I missed that
02:07:27FromDiscord<auxym> maybe I could use `currentSourcePath` though
02:08:09FromDiscord<auxym> just trying to implement a simple `joinPath` implem that I can use at comptime with `os:any`, lol
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02:38:14FromDiscord<tfp> i'm trying to make a macro to create a new "kind" of object
02:38:32FromDiscord<tfp> FWIU this isn't possible
02:38:32FromDiscord<tfp> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4q8h
02:38:33FromDiscord<tfp> am i wrong?
02:41:26FromDiscord<tfp> so i'm falling back to this
02:41:34FromDiscord<tfp> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4q8i
02:41:42FromDiscord<tfp> but it complains about the , and i figure that's from the same limitation?
02:49:55FromDiscord<tfp> ok as usual i see a workaround, macro pragmas?
02:50:46FromDiscord<tfp> https://nim-lang.github.io/Nim/manual_experimental.html
02:50:53FromDiscord<tfp> oddly the manual doesn't show the name of the experiment to enable
02:53:06FromDiscord<Rika> Pragmas in macros are not experimental
02:53:41FromDiscord<tfp> https://nim-lang.github.io/Nim/manual_experimental.html#extended-macro-pragmas
02:53:43FromDiscord<tfp> it's listed here
02:53:49FromDiscord<tfp> at least applying it to a type anyway seems to be experimental
02:53:54FromDiscord<tfp> which is what i'm interested in
02:54:08FromDiscord<Rika> Then they aren’t experimental in the way that a switch is needed
02:54:10FromDiscord<Rika> They’re just on
02:54:12FromDiscord<tfp> ah ok
02:54:13FromDiscord<Rika> Just like concepts
02:55:26FromDiscord<tfp> now i just have to figure out why it says invalid pragma 🙂
02:55:26FromDiscord<tfp> thanks
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02:58:25FromDiscord<tfp> ok i figured it out
02:58:35FromDiscord<tfp> was just because the type of the ast node i returned was wrong, didn't think it mattered
03:18:17FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Also worth noting type def macros cannot take in typed ast
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03:54:23termerIs it expected for ORC to cause threaded programs to crash with SIGSEGV
03:54:50termerI've had this issue with both Jester and Prologue, and debugging it is very difficult
03:56:02termerIt seems in the stack traces that this happens a lot on iterators
03:57:57FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Likely if they are not changed to support orc
03:59:52termerwoo boy
04:00:14termerthe issues don't happen under ARC, but of course they leak memory under ARC
04:00:31FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Likely sharing memory improperly
04:04:20FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Probably needs a few `{.cursor.}`s thrown around but idk
04:08:35FromDiscord<ringabout> It seems that httpbeast shares Settings between threads
04:08:42FromDiscord<ringabout> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1082515141033218141/image.png
04:10:36FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Is settings a ref object?
04:12:45FromDiscord<ringabout> It contains managed memory.
04:13:17termerI'm trying to get a better understanding of Prologue but I'm wholly unfamiliar with it
04:13:36FromDiscord<ringabout> Though it seems to be a complex problem. I have no idea.
04:13:46termercompiling with -d:usestd (use asynchttpserver) fixes the problem
04:13:53termerBUT that's probably not multithreaded
04:13:59termerand of course I don't want to use asynchttpserver lol
04:14:03FromDiscord<ringabout> asynchttpserver doesn't use threads at all
04:14:12termeryou *can* make it use threads lol
04:14:13termerI have
04:14:16termerjust not good
04:16:40termerbasically I'm trying to figure out a way to get Prologue working with this cause I don't want to write a new framework and add yet another to the pool
04:16:55termerplus the new version of Nim uses ORC and threads by default I believe
04:20:12termerringabout, how does application global state work in Prologue?
04:20:23termerwhat kind of state is there, and how is it dealt with?
04:26:54FromDiscord<ringabout> It shares the same application instance, name Prologue => https://github.com/planety/prologue/blob/e676b9a85fc66d136177aef94d30fdcd58d45fcb/src/prologue/core/application.nim#L499
04:27:14FromDiscord<ringabout> The global state will be shared between threads.
04:28:20FromDiscord<ringabout> It is a ref => https://github.com/planety/prologue/blob/e676b9a85fc66d136177aef94d30fdcd58d45fcb/src/prologue/core/context.nim#L46
04:28:25FromDiscord<tfp> if i'm making a pragma macro for a type, can i emit more than one type? because i can't emit a type section
04:28:34FromDiscord<tfp> it looks like i can only emit a single type def
04:28:35termerLemme see
04:28:39FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> In devel it can tfp not in stable
04:28:41termermight need to check out if it can be a threadvar or something
04:28:57FromDiscord<tfp> In reply to @Elegantbeef "In devel it can": oh ok, that sounds good
04:29:12FromDiscord<tfp> thanks-- i can't really find a workaround because other types of macros can't accept for the public marker
04:29:19FromDiscord<tfp> can u think of anything 🥺
04:29:44FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4q8D
04:29:56FromDiscord<tfp> the issue i ran into with that is a public field just breaks it
04:30:00FromDiscord<tfp> i'm not sure why, i might be missing something
04:30:05FromDiscord<tfp> let me check again
04:31:01FromDiscord<tfp> nevermind i think i'm wrong
04:31:04FromDiscord<tfp> 🤹‍♂️
04:33:25termerringabout The context for a request, is that run on the thread or is that generated by the main event loop thread and then sent somewhere else?
04:33:27FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> The typedef macro should work with export
04:34:00FromDiscord<tfp> micros can iterate over a type section right?
04:34:00FromDiscord<ringabout> In reply to @termer "ringabout The context for": it is generated on the thread
04:34:08termerso realistically that shouldn't be an issue
04:34:32FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Of course↵(@tfp)
04:34:34termerman I'm really drawing a blank on this
04:35:33FromDiscord<ringabout> The context holds a reference to the global state created in the main thread.
04:35:41termeroh I see
04:35:56termeris that gScope
04:36:08FromDiscord<ringabout> yeah
04:36:14termerwhere is that created
04:37:19FromDiscord<ringabout> https://github.com/planety/prologue/blob/e676b9a85fc66d136177aef94d30fdcd58d45fcb/src/prologue/core/application.nim#L366
04:37:25FromDiscord<ringabout> in the `newApp`
04:38:05FromDiscord<ringabout> in the main thread anyway
04:38:13termerI'm noticing the return type of gScope is lent
04:38:20termerI wonder if that plays nice with threads
04:38:34FromDiscord<tfp> @ElegantBeef ok so i can't actually find a way to iterate over the fields in a type section in the tests
04:38:54FromDiscord<tfp> well i guess iterate over the types, and then the fields
04:39:07termerok, lent or no lent, still crashes
04:39:15FromDiscord<tfp> (sorry i haven't read the code itself much, just the tests in lieu of examples or docs)
04:39:59FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You have to manually navigate the tree
04:41:19FromDiscord<tfp> ah gotcha, but then the type definitions themselves i can yoink out fields with micros?
04:42:14FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> https://github.com/beef331/micros/blob/master/src/micros/definitions/objectdefs.nim#L217
04:42:23FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> If you're using micros that's what you'll likely want
04:43:23FromDiscord<tfp> ty, i saw ObjectDef but i thought it could only be used with like a "already made" type, can i actually use it on like nnkTypeDef?
04:43:40FromDiscord<tfp> sorry still connecting concepts in my head and i am trying to save some time by asking questions 😦
04:44:13FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You can use it on each typedef
04:44:49FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Cause micros doesnt cover the entire AST you have to use normal Nim ast occasionally
04:45:10FromDiscord<tfp> it doesn't look like there's a ctor for nnkTypeDef though is what im seeing
04:46:01FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> https://github.com/beef331/micros/blob/master/src/micros/definitions/objectdefs.nim#L6-L27 converts a nimnode to a objectdef
04:48:19FromDiscord<tfp> maybe i'm stupid but it doesn't look like i can put an nnkTypeDef in there?
04:49:05FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yes you can
04:49:35FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Notice `isa` checks if it's a `nnkyTypeDef`
04:50:01FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> And objectDef passes it along if it's not a `nnkSym` or `nnkObjConstr`
04:50:12FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> So a typedef goes to `isa` and passes
04:51:01FromDiscord<tfp> ah ok i see, i misread the case statement
04:51:05FromDiscord<tfp> thanks! yes it's working
04:51:07FromDiscord<tfp> appreciate the help
04:51:20FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I appreciate the using micrros
04:52:19FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Hopefully micros makes your life much easier
04:54:54FromDiscord<tfp> so far so good :^)
05:05:04FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Good let it infest the entire macro world!
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05:38:14FromDiscord<Saint> How do I use an external JS library with Nim and compile my nim to JS
05:38:27FromDiscord<Saint> Could someone point me to a page that sort of goes over how to do this
05:41:09FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> https://github.com/juancarlospaco/nodejs is probably the best reference
06:00:58FromDiscord<Saint> Thanks @ElegantBeef but do you know how I would import something like https://github.com/Tonejs/Tone.js
06:03:12FromDiscord<Saint> https://github.com/bluenote10/KaraxExamples/blob/master/JsIntegration/demo.nim
06:03:24FromDiscord<Saint> Is this still the way to do it? Example is pretty old
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06:14:34FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Pretty much
06:14:47FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You do not need the `emit`, that's only if you do not want to have to include the js in another method
06:27:32FromDiscord<Saint> In reply to @Elegantbeef "You do not need": Could you explain a bit more? I'm not sure I get it
06:27:51FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You only need the emit if you do not include the other js file in another way
06:28:17FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> If this is in browser that could be replaced with a `<script src = "mysrc.js"/>`
06:28:28FromDiscord<Saint> Okay right, gotcha
06:28:31FromDiscord<Saint> Thanks!
06:29:36FromDiscord<Saint> I only need the emit once even if I wrap multiple functions from the js library, right?
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06:30:06FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> emit pastes whatever the string you use into the generated js file
06:30:17FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's verbatim
06:55:21NimEventerNew post on r/nim by Enigmanark: My second game made with Nim, see https://reddit.com/r/nim/comments/11ks0sh/my_second_game_made_with_nim/
07:23:41FromDiscord<that_dude> Is there a way to avoid evaluating a const variable if it doesn't get used? I've got a function that has a considerable setup cost that I want to avoid it if it doesn't get used
07:28:10FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Perhaps you can make it a template instead
07:32:20FromDiscord<that_dude> So basically try to just change proc -> template for the main function?
07:32:31FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You said a const
07:33:28FromDiscord<that_dude> Well my code looks like this right now https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1082566672830967879/image.png
07:33:52FromDiscord<that_dude> And my idea is that if test doesn't get called, get_coords (which takes a few seconds) doesn't either
07:34:15FromDiscord<that_dude> But right now coords it still calculated
07:34:31FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4q93
07:37:04FromDiscord<that_dude> That works, but only until I do something with coords. In this case test still isn't called, but it's evaluated again https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1082567579320713226/image.png
07:37:40FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Use a macro + compile time variable then
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09:34:02FromDiscord<4zv4l> since sha-1 and md5 aren't secure nowadays why isn't there in the stdlib a sha256 digest ?
09:38:37Amun-Rawhy sha256?
09:38:55Amun-Rablake2, sha3…
09:39:28FromDiscord<4zv4l> are those in the stdlib ?
09:39:48Amun-Ranope
09:40:36FromDiscord<4zv4l> so the point is the same
09:40:41FromDiscord<4zv4l> gonna check nimcrypto
09:41:37Amun-Ramhm
09:42:00Amun-RaI would not use stdlib crypto modules for anything close to security
09:42:03Amun-Rasee https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/lib/pure/md5.nim#L269-L273
09:42:25Amun-Rathat's a perfect example how not to compare hashes
09:42:29Amun-Rait's not constant time
09:43:00Amun-RaI started my own crypto lib, but it's on hiatus atm
09:48:42PMunchWell hashes are used for more than crypto
09:49:07Amun-Ratrue
09:49:13PMunchMD5 and SHA-1 are commonly used for things like comparing files or messages for example
09:49:21FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Md5 is mostly used for checksums now
09:49:36Amun-Ramd5 should not be used anymore even for that
09:49:55Amun-Ramac+md5 is fine
10:21:21FromDiscord<4zv4l> In reply to @Amun-Ra "I would not use": nimcrypto from github not the stdlib ^^
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11:23:47FromDiscord<0ffh> In reply to @Amun-Ra "see https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/lib/": You care about a side channel attack on a non-cryptographic hash function?↵Or is that just a very badly chosen example?
11:35:26Amun-Rathat was the first thing I've noticed by skimming the source for a few seconds
12:00:24FromDiscord<Gennadiy> Other than the manual's documentation, could someone point to some documentation/tutorials on `'Concepts'` in Nim. thanks.
12:28:32PMunchMaybe @Elegantbeef has something
12:34:02FromDiscord<jmgomez> In reply to @Gennadiy "Other than the manual's": https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual_experimental.html#concepts
12:35:30PMunch@jmgomez, that's the manual though..
12:42:28FromDiscord<jmgomez> Yeah, I misread it that's why I deleted the post. I guess it doenst get reflected in matrix
12:43:15PMunchI'm on IRC, nothing gets deleted here
12:47:35NimEventerNew post on r/nim by jdmidds: Exercism is showcasing Nim this month, see https://reddit.com/r/nim/comments/11kxrbm/exercism_is_showcasing_nim_this_month/
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12:54:27FromDiscord<Phil> This is more software in general, but in distributed systems, are there really only 2 ways to guarantee that you correctly fully received and processed a piece of data ?
12:55:00FromDiscord<Phil> 1) Act on it synchronously, only return a response once you fully processed the entire thing. When you give back HTTP200 you give a guarantee it is fully processed
12:57:00FromDiscord<Phil> 2) Act on it asynchronously and check with a job. You return a response immediately and "mark" the received message for later processing, e.g. by handing out a message to some message-queue like rabbitmq or activemq.↵You can then only soft "guarantee" that it'll get fully processed by storing somewhere whether it has been processed or not and then you regularly check with a job whether it has been processed already
12:58:14FromDiscord<Rika> In distributed systems whenever you move to asynchrony there’s a lot of guarantees you lose
13:00:52FromDiscord<Phil> We're having an hour long debate currently over what's the way to go here as the original implementation used asyncrhony and suddenly the requirement dropped out of nowhere that we would want a guarantee, that if somebody says "Don't show my profile publicly" then we need a guarantee that it actually gets stored. Messages being dropped must not happen because otherwise we're violating their right to govern how their data is being used
13:01:06FromDiscord<Phil> I'm mentally exhausted from simulating all those different ways to build it
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13:07:15FromDiscord<Rika> Give me a moment I’m busy lol
13:14:22FromDiscord<Phil> Apparently ActiveMQ and maybe others support transactions (?)↵I'll need to dive into those docs at some point
13:23:58PMunchCool to see the intro video from Exercism for Mechanical March
13:24:13PMunchYou can tell that the person who did it has used Nim
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14:03:58FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @Rika "Give me a moment": I can’t find the document I usually use to explain this and I’m usually terrible at explaining these more complex topics so
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14:18:11FromDiscord<Phil> You can not see it, but now I'm sad
14:18:39FromDiscord<Phil> We have like 5 different opinions on build this particular feature in our distributed ecosystem and I'm just mentally exhausted
14:19:12FromDiscord<Phil> (edit) "We have like 5 different opinions on ... build" added "how to"
14:25:07PMunchPretty neat when you find a fairly large project like this and don't recognize any of the contributors: https://github.com/exercism/configlet
14:25:13PMunchMeas the community is growing :)
14:30:58FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @Isofruit "We have like 5": It just is like that
14:31:05FromDiscord<Rika> Distributed is a pain
14:31:29FromDiscord<Rika> I think one of the simplest ideas is just to use a time out and retry n times
14:31:38FromDiscord<Rika> If all fails then just raise an error to the user
14:31:51FromDiscord<Rika> You cannot avoid the error to the user anyway even in synchrony
14:34:20FromDiscord<Rika> I found the resource I usually use
14:34:30FromDiscord<Rika> https://decentralizedthoughts.github.io
14:37:27FromDiscord<Rika> https://decentralizedthoughts.github.io/2019-06-01-2019-5-31-models/
14:38:46FromDiscord<Rika> @Phil
14:41:17FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @Rika "If all fails then": I mean, one of the reasons you'd want to use asynchrony is so that the user can immediately return to their client and do their own thing while the infrastructure distributes the knowledge that data was changed
14:41:46FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @Isofruit "I mean, one of": I see, that’s what you mean
14:42:08FromDiscord<Phil> So raising an error to the user goes out the window once asynchrony via an MQ is involved because the user already has gotten their answer:↵That the first service received the data.↵You just can't give a guarantee that it was fully distributed into the microservice-landscape
14:43:18FromDiscord<Rika> Well in such case you can go read the linked article where they propose a latency model that is safe in asynchrony but has a weak guarantee for liveness
14:43:58FromDiscord<Phil> God damn large distributed systems are such a pain to think about
14:44:37FromDiscord<Rika> Well that’s what happens when you want to generalise
14:46:03FromDiscord<Rika> They have a start guide https://decentralizedthoughts.github.io/start-here/
14:48:23FromDiscord<Rika> I don’t know man have fun this is a really brain blending rabbit hole
14:53:43FromDiscord<Phil> And I thought I had to break my brain 3 years ago when I started getting into async
14:54:00FromDiscord<Phil> (edit) "And I thought I had to break my brain 3 years ago when I started getting into async ... " added "with rxjs and promises"
14:55:02FromDiscord<jmgomez> In reply to @PMunch "Pretty neat when you": 🚀
14:58:03FromDiscord<Yepoleb> In reply to @Isofruit "So raising an error": It seems like raising an error is a requirement though
15:02:22FromDiscord<Yepoleb> You can not return success unless you know the data has been written and saved in all nodes, that can only be a synchronous operation
15:04:40FromDiscord<Yepoleb> To the front end at least, you can use async operations behind the scenes and wrap that in a synchronous operation that checks for success or aborts and shows an error
15:05:03FromDiscord<Yepoleb> (edit) "least, you" => "least. You"
15:12:58FromDiscord<Rika> It’s always a good idea to have a way of handling errors in that sense yes
15:13:25FromDiscord<Phil> The error doesn't have to be, the requirement is either it fails and you inform the user, or it doesn't and you have a way to notice that it failed yourself
15:13:59FromDiscord<Rika> What,
15:16:10FromDiscord<Phil> Storing a collection or table with records for whom passing them on failed
15:16:50FromDiscord<Phil> So if you notice that filling up you see what needs to be migrated by hand if necessary
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15:18:19FromDiscord<Rika> So basically when it fails it has to do something potentially over the network
15:18:31FromDiscord<Rika> 🙂 sounds like there’s gonna be a lot of issues there
15:20:41FromDiscord<gogolxdong> Is there any new ORC/ARC latency benchmarks?
15:20:51FromDiscord<gogolxdong> (edit) "benchmarks?" => "benchmark?"
15:25:44FromDiscord<Nerve> What are peoples' preferred command line parser setups for complex CLI applications? I'm currently using `docopt` and while the semantics are nice, I feel like all the template-generated procedures are bloating my application startup time.
15:26:27FromDiscord<Nerve> I'd prefer simple and lean without requiring a spaghetti mess
15:28:06PMunchCliche might be a good hit: https://github.com/juancarlospaco/cliche
15:49:57FromDiscord<exelotl> I just use parseopt from the std lib, even for a complex app with multiple subcommands it's pretty manageable. After using your OptParser to figure out which command to run, you can forward it on to each subroutine to handle the remaining opts, and show a different help message if _those_ opts are wrong, etc.↵e.g.↵main options: https://git.sr.ht/~exelotl/natu/tree/devel/item/natu.nim↵sub options: https://git.sr.ht/~exelotl/natu/tree
16:01:30NimEventerNew Nimble package! sauer - Scaffolder for Karax., see https://github.com/moigagoo/sauer
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17:40:24NimEventerNew thread by TKD: Why does this code using 'concepts' fail?, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/9972
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18:20:03FromDiscord<rakgew> I like cligen quit a bit, but so far have not used it in complex cli apps yet.
18:34:28PMunchI've actually used npeg for very complex command line parsing
18:36:44NimEventerNew Nimble package! wilayahindonesia - Library data wilayah indonesia, see https://github.com/nekoding/wilayahindonesia-nim
18:41:44NimEventerNew Nimble package! epub2gpub - Convert epub to gpub (https://codeberg.org/oppenlab/gempub), see https://gitlab.com/mars2klb/epub2gpub
18:47:13FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> I've just scrapped my 'super modular plugin system' idea now
18:57:29PMunch:(
19:10:45PMunchI was looking forward to that
19:21:14FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> So, I recreated the server software without the plugin system structure I had, but I'm still getting the same issue which honestly is kinda wack
19:21:31FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> So I'm assuming it's a logic error, which means I may actually be able to use the plugin system structure
19:21:43FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Just not sure where the logic error is happening aha
19:21:50FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Probably during packet creation
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19:53:37FromDiscord<Pandasdontfly> choosenim does not work on windows 11 it seems
19:56:14FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> In reply to @Hourglass, When the Hour Strikes "Probably during packet creation": Yep, it's a logic error
19:56:21FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Finally figured out the issue
19:56:30FromDiscord<Hourglass [She/Her]> Pain. Because I don't know how to fix this
19:57:26FromDiscord<Phil> In reply to @Pandasdontfly "choosenim does not work": Tried asking any other folks that use win11 yet to see if nim works on there or not?
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20:02:22Phil[m]123Okay, took some swapping around between matrix servers to find the one with the channel but I think this is it?
20:02:24Phil[m]123Never mind, thisappears to not be the channel bridged to discord offtopic
20:15:42FromDiscord<Pandasdontfly> In reply to @Isofruit "Tried asking any other": i dunno dont really know anyone
20:16:08FromDiscord<Pandasdontfly> i just got a new pc so used windows 11 it just spits out a error upon trying to install it
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21:30:19FromDiscord<michaelb.eth> is it somehow possible to use an importc'd func at compile-time?
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21:55:41PMunch@michaelb.eth, there is some work being put towards this, but I don't believe it's currently possible, no
21:57:06PMunch@Pandasdontfly, what's the error? I assume this could be the notorious false positive AV thing..
21:59:39FromDiscord<Pandasdontfly> In reply to @PMunch "<@924783372755169311>, what's the error?": upon opening it prints out the entire help section then says [process exited with code 1 (0x00000001)] then does not work since i cant install it. Trying to install nim manually does not work either.
21:59:40FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Pmunch i did actually write a code reuse 'tutorial' recently so i do indeed have a writeup for concepts sorta!
22:00:05FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> @Gennadiy no clue if it explains concepts enough https://www.jasonbeetham.com/codereuse.html
22:00:29FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> In reply to @michaelb.eth "is it somehow possible": Yes if you build the compiler with libffi enabled
22:03:14FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/10150 for reference
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22:05:06FromDiscord<jmgomez> Wasnt aware of it, why is not default? Worst comp times?
22:05:18FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Even worse security
22:05:58FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> staticExec is bad enough for security, arbitrary C apis working with the VM is even worse
22:08:25FromDiscord<jmgomez> Ah I see, nobody considered two versions of the compiler?
22:09:04FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I mean that creates even more dialects
22:09:44FromDiscord<michaelb.eth> In reply to @ElegantBeef "Yes if you build": thanks
22:10:12FromDiscord<jmgomez> yeah, fragmentation is an issue but importc so at comp time is so tempting.. I guess you can just ship the compiler, it doesnt take that long to compile
22:10:29FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Well it's such a hard thing to audit
22:10:42FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> You need something like `{.libffi.}:` or something
22:11:26FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Otherwise it's too difficult to see where your library may make FFI calls, which makes it even more insecure to just compile a library
22:22:38FromDiscord<djazz> In reply to @gitterirc "<shashlick> Araq should I": Long overdue 😁 @auxym
22:22:56FromDiscord<djazz> In reply to @gitterirc "<Araq> shashlick, ok": He said ok 🙂
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22:23:30FromDiscord<djazz> Guess I should make a PR
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22:34:32FromDiscord<gogolxdong> Is move from --gc to --mm only an item change or means no gc literally?
22:34:41FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> They mean the same thing
22:34:53FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> arc/orc are not conventional GCs hence the name change
22:35:17FromDiscord<gogolxdong> not conventional GCs means gc or not
22:35:34FromDiscord<gogolxdong> I'm comparing with golang/Rust.
22:35:45FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Not conventional means it's more like Rust/C++'s RAII
22:35:51FromDiscord<Diogenes of Toronto> falling for these puns
22:35:54FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Orc has a cycle collector on top
22:36:36FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> What puns?
22:36:38FromDiscord<gogolxdong> yeah, aware of that, is there any new benchmark of arc/orc
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22:40:46FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I mean it's generally faster than refc in many cases, in others it might not be
22:51:26FromDiscord<gogolxdong> The latest news of golang gc I've heard of is it's been reduced down to around 1ms in price of throughput.
22:52:54FromDiscord<gogolxdong> 'm investigating whether nimbus can beat go-ethereum/geth since golang has the "stop the world"
22:53:03FromDiscord<gogolxdong> (edit) "'m" => "I'm"
22:53:44FromDiscord<gogolxdong> https://nim-lang.org/blog/2020/12/08/introducing-orc.html
22:55:40FromDiscord<gogolxdong> if so , we have a way to make Nim popular in some so-called "web3 scientist community" very fast
23:30:58FromDiscord<Nilts> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=4qcZ