<< 07-04-2019 >>
00:00:10shashlickI think the underlying implementation is based on seqs though not sure
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00:09:05I_Right_Iyeah I think a list is what I am going to need. For some reason I thought seqs had a 'remove' procedure vs just a 'pop'
00:09:09I_Right_Ithanks though
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00:18:17FromGitter<kayabaNerve> clybber: If I use used, it doesn't get stripped out as dead code.
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00:29:56ryukopostingyo guys check this out https://dailyprog.org/f/4l7k
00:30:48ryukopostinginternally, all the components of the request are generated correctly. Next step is actually making the request, signing code is in progress
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00:41:26*disruptek lols back to when we had 100mb hard drives and devoted 10mb to swap; compiling a kernel took 1.5 days, and X and Mosaic ran in 40mb.
00:42:28*ryukoposting sips
00:52:19I_Right_Idisruptek: That takes me back.... I think my first linux compile took 9 hours on 133mhz Pentium with 16mb of ram
00:59:15disruptekyeah, the early linux experiences... it's pretty nuts how far we've come.
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01:00:15disrupteki mean, you could build a kernel OR you could run X. not both.
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01:17:47FromDiscord<exelotl> planetis[m] hmm I don't remember talking about it but this looks cool though!
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02:25:28disruptekryukoposting: i need that right now; how can i help?
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03:20:06ryukopostinghm?
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04:07:21FromDiscord<slymilano> Have any of you guys successfully used Nim at work?
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05:24:00FromDiscord<treeform> I successfully use Nim at work.
05:24:21FromDiscord<treeform> Grr this issue still not fixed on windows: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/9953
05:24:47FromDiscord<treeform> https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/8648
05:29:29FromDiscord<treeform> @slymilano I develop internal tools with nim, soon going to be 100% working with nim.
05:44:34ryukopostingyeah I use it for build tools and such
05:58:36leorize@treeform fixing the startprocess bug would need to extend the Nim's osproc API
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06:08:56Araqleorize: how so?
06:11:34leorizewe would need either a flag to inherit the parent stdin (for program that checks for a console existance) or a mechanism to pass our own file handle to the child
06:16:36Araqif I can pass my own file handle to the child, how would that fix the deadlocks?
06:19:57leorizesome program doesn't output anything if their input file is not the console
06:20:09leorizeso Nim would stuck on the pipe forever
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06:24:30AraqI understand that passing the file handles to startProcess would be a nice feature
06:24:50Araqbut using this mechanism to prevent deadlocks would at best be a workaround, no?
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06:27:27leorizethe "proper" way (IMO) is to use `atEnd` to check if there's anything in the pipe before reading (can only be guaranteed if the process has terminated)
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06:35:29FromDiscord<treeform> maybe everything thing should pipe to a tmp file, then nim reads the file?
06:35:49FromDiscord<treeform> (on windows)
06:39:19leorizewe... don't have the facility to do that yet :p the API is limited to pipes to parent afaict
06:39:59FromDiscord<treeform> maybe ran a bat file
06:40:01FromDiscord<treeform> in bat file put
06:40:05leorizeiirc correctly on windows the console is an object, so the same problem shouldn't happen there
06:40:05FromDiscord<treeform> THING >> tmp/file
06:45:08FromDiscord<treeform> Is there a way to `{.emit: readFile(...)}`
06:46:01leorizeno, but you can `{.emit: staticRead(...).}`
06:47:52FromDiscord<treeform> yes that works thanks!
06:47:54Araqwe use named pipes on Windows
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07:26:58leorizeAraq: will Nim 0.20 be shipped with working new runtime?
07:27:15Araqdefine "working"
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07:27:56leorizemost of the stdlib usable and I can write multi threaded program that works with it
07:30:39Araqthe goal is to make koch.nim compile&run with it for 0.20
07:32:09Araqthe stdlib is big and porting&testing takes too long for 0.20
07:33:01Araqso far pleasing the compiler with 'owned' annotations was super simple but who knows what will happen at runtime :P
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07:37:10AraqHelp would be most welcome ;-)
07:38:33leorizewe can dug up more bugs for you to fix :)
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07:43:46Zevvwhat does "help" look like at this point,
07:44:54leorizealso a quick test shows that the `Node(x: 10, y: 20)` syntax doesn't work if `Node` is a ref object
07:45:04leorize(with new runtime)
07:48:17FromGitter<Varriount> ryukoposting: ping
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07:50:13FromGitter<Varriount> disruptek: I have AWS request signing code that's usable now, however you would need to figure out the endpoint, parameters, etc manually
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07:51:05FromGitter<Varriount> It basically takes data for an http request, and returns the AWS authorization header or query parameter
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08:01:02clyybberThe names of named tuples get optimized away when using -d:release right?
08:04:48leorizeIIRC RTTI will only be generated if you make use of it
08:07:37clyybberOk, nice. Thanks
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10:46:22planetis[m]exelotl: my bad, i found the conversation it was with another discord user
10:47:00planetis[m]hotdog: ping
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11:42:37FromGitter<alehander42> ok i finally read most of the gel lang \paper
11:54:29FromGitter<alehander42> btw
11:54:35FromGitter<alehander42> why using nil for dangling pointers
11:54:48FromGitter<alehander42> instead of having e.g. special "dangling" value
11:55:43FromGitter<alehander42> i really hoped we can model ref not nil in some cases
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12:23:04FromGitter<bluenote10> syntactically the idea was to use e.g. `disarm(dangling)`
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12:33:03Zevv+ that
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12:42:59luis_Hi everyone, I am getting: Error: type mismatch: got <type ThreadData> but expected 'Thread = CompositeTypeClass'
12:43:32luis_When trying to follow Picheta's p155 example:
12:44:37luis_https://i.imgur.com/lTQ7fdV.png
12:45:10luis_And compiling with: nim --threads:on c threads.nim
12:45:32luis_What am I doing wrong?
12:50:19leorizeluis_: the correct syntax is `Thread[ThreadData]`
12:51:11luis_Oh I see, getting too old and needing new glasses.. thanks
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13:55:16FromGitter<liquid600pgm> is there any way to capture a `var T` in a closure? I'm 100% certain my use case doesn't violate memory safety
13:56:00leorizewell, no, but you can always pass a pointer :)
13:57:01FromGitter<liquid600pgm> well, my object I'm trying to pass is already a `ref object`, how do I turn it into a `ptr`? just use `cast`?
13:57:43leorizea `ref object` can always be captured by a closure iirc
13:57:50leorizeafter all it's just a pointer
13:58:11FromGitter<liquid600pgm> `ref object`s are mutable no matter what?
13:58:31leorizeyea
13:58:41FromGitter<liquid600pgm> nice
13:58:48leorizethere's no immutable ref in Nim atm
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14:06:51FromGitter<liquid600pgm> all right, now it works perfectly
14:10:42FromGitter<liquid600pgm> are captured `ref object`s copies, or just references?
14:11:26dom96references
14:13:40FromGitter<liquid600pgm> that's great, my issue from a few months ago (can't find a link, nimforum really needs a list of posts by self) is completely solved now
14:17:10FromGitter<kayabaNerve> Simple definition: ref is a memory managed pointer
14:17:18FromGitter<kayabaNerve> Extended definition: ref is a memory managed pointer
14:17:23FromGitter<kayabaNerve> :thinking:
14:17:25FromGitter<liquid600pgm> yeah, I know that lol
14:17:45FromGitter<kayabaNerve> ptrs aren't immutable or copies :P
14:17:52dom96liquid600pgm: the forum does have that list, look at your profile
14:18:21FromGitter<liquid600pgm> I only see "Latest posts" and "Latest threads"
14:18:43FromGitter<liquid600pgm> and that only shows 10 items
14:18:56FromGitter<liquid600pgm> the thread I'm talking about is way older than that
14:23:58FromGitter<alehander42> hmm no
14:24:04FromGitter<alehander42> @bluenote10
14:24:23FromGitter<alehander42> my point is that we'll have `nil` which means both "no value" & "invalid dangling pointer"
14:24:35FromGitter<alehander42> and it might be hard to separate those meanings
14:24:41FromGitter<alehander42> the syntax doesn't matter
14:25:01FromGitter<alehander42> it can be always sugar-ed
14:26:29krux02alehander42: where does `nil` mean invalid dangling pointer?
14:26:55krux02nil cannot be a dangling pointer, because it is nil.
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14:30:39FromGitter<alehander42> you're right, sorry, i misundersroot
14:30:44FromGitter<alehander42> stood'
14:31:11FromGitter<alehander42> in this case we dont have any other mechanism to detect dangling unowned refs on CT?
14:32:54FromGitter<alehander42> i wonder how hard would be to detect them at least in some cases
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14:49:32krux02well, detecting dangling unowned refs at CT is an inherintly complicated problem. We think it is not worth to try to find a solution for it.
14:50:40krux02dangleing pointers can be anywhere in the program, in non local scope.
14:51:31krux02I personally think the tooling to detect them at runtime is the sweet spot.
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15:12:05FromGitter<alehander42> Hm but what about detecting which refs are surely owned / safe
15:12:28FromGitter<alehander42> And for those which are not just ensuring you use them in flow paths where they're checked for nil
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15:14:39FromGitter<alehander42> And somehow still providing checks in ==nil branch so the user has better control what yo do in release instead of abort and still the info in debug mode, maybe not really making sense here wait
15:33:03krux02alehander42: it is not about detecting refs which are surely owned, it is about detecting dangling refs
15:34:19krux02the assumption is that refs are not dangling, then you pass them around somewhere in the program.
15:34:28krux02out of scope
15:34:48krux02in my opinion out of reach for static analysis
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16:06:05Araqcontainer.storeInto(unownedRefDerivedFrom(aboutToLeaveScope)) isn't out of reach for static analysis but we would need 'unownedRefDerivedFrom' information
16:06:43Araqwe can compute it and produce warnings.
16:07:15Araqit's definitely feasible but a quality-of-implementation issues when it's also detected at runtime
16:09:03Araqbut we need real-world experience with the scheme first.
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16:24:06FromGitter<bluenote10> can I somehow use `getCustomPragmaVal` within a compile time proc, where I only have a `NimNode` corresponding to a type?
16:25:17FromGitter<bluenote10> `getCustomPragmaVal` is a macro expecting a `typed` arg as its first parameter. Basically the question is if I can pass in a `NimNode` instead?
16:34:27Araqyou can add an overload to macros.nim for that
16:45:31FromDiscord<exelotl> bleh circular dependencies
16:46:16FromDiscord<exelotl> I would like the player to be able to loop over the enemies to check if he's standing on any of them
16:46:34FromDiscord<exelotl> I'd also like the enemies to be able to refer to the player, for AI purposes etc.
16:47:22FromDiscord<exelotl> I basically can't do that without introducing a third module for shared data
16:47:28FromGitter<bluenote10> I see, I can look into that. In my case I might get away with reading the stuff I need from the type inst directly.
16:47:51FromDiscord<exelotl> and that module will get really big as more kinds of object are added to the game
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17:03:09Zevvexelotl: https://i.imgflip.com/2x3fuf.jpg
17:08:46FromDiscord<exelotl> 👌
17:09:33Araqwell my workaround works and I still think that if you have mutually recursive types there is no reason to pretend they are in different modules
17:10:21Araqwhen everything imports everything else you don't have "modularity".
17:11:11Araqand why are player and enemies different types anyway, it's just a team, some team can be controlled by a human being, others by the AI
17:13:38FromGitter<zetashift> https://github.com/RapidFingers/Craxe haxe to nim :O
17:15:28disruptekhard to argue with that logic. 😬
17:16:37FromDiscord<exelotl> I don't have any mutually recursive types, and all my types are defined in a single module
17:16:55FromDiscord<exelotl> I'd just like a procedure in one module to be able to access some variables in another
17:16:57FromDiscord<exelotl> and vice versa
17:23:23FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> Is there a way to make a Table have values which could be an int or a string without the use of a type? I'm just wondering because currently I have a type that handles all the different types that I would want to store in a table but I wasn't sure if this was the best way of doing it
17:26:42FromDiscord<exelotl> @Avatarfighter I think that's the best way to do it
17:27:21FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> Alrighty, just making sure I wasn't over thinking it 😃
17:29:45FromDiscord<exelotl> Ohh I solved my problem: https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#modules
17:31:01FromDiscord<exelotl> if you want two modules to be able to access each other's variables, you can just move the recursive imports down to *after* the point where the variables are declared
17:50:08FromGitter<liquid600pgm> can I expect tuple elements to be arranged sequentially? (where `[0, 1, 2]` and `(0, 1, 2)` are arranged in the same way in memory)
17:51:43dom96exelotl: huh, sounds like there should be an article highlighting this
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18:15:44Zevvliquid600pgm: the manual suggests this is the case
18:27:04FromGitter<Varriount> Iqdev: only on the C and C++ backends
18:27:39FromGitter<liquid600pgm> good to know, thanks
18:28:03FromGitter<Varriount> And even then, if the tuple elements are reference or pointers, the memory each element points to may not be located contiguously
18:28:24FromGitter<liquid600pgm> the tuple elements are all `float32`
18:28:27FromGitter<Varriount> Iqdev: What are you trying to achieve?
18:28:37FromGitter<liquid600pgm> nothing, just asking out of pure curiosity
18:29:20FromGitter<liquid600pgm> I have an array I want to use in OpenGL and thought if maybe I could use tuples for the members, but I won't do that just to be safe
18:29:48FromGitter<Varriount> Eh, yeah, that's probably a good choice.
18:30:16FromGitter<liquid600pgm> I make sure the right amount of elements is added anyway, so it shouldn't be a problem
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18:54:25planetis[m]i have a sequence of strings and using the in operator, there is an infinite loop in iterators.nim(6)
18:54:45planetis[m]suppling my own contains function fixes it
18:55:05planetis[m]but i can't get mwe, because the example works
19:00:55GertmCan I create custom comparison procs for objects I created, so the normal comparison operators work?
19:01:35leorizeyes, you can
19:01:49leorizeyou can even create your own version of the comparison operators :P
19:01:51Gertmleorize: Can you link me to a page where this is explained?
19:02:22GertmCan't seem to find it in dom96's book. Though I'm not very far in it yet.
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19:03:24planetis[m]just write before the use, your proc
19:03:46ZevvGertm: https://nim-lang.github.io/Nim/algorithm.html should have all you need
19:04:19Zevvwell, no, sorry, ignore that
19:04:45GertmSorting with a custom function is atleast something. :)
19:05:29Zevvi shouldnt irc while commuting, too often I don't read stuff properly befor answering
19:06:03leorizeGertm: operators in Nim are just `proc`s, so they are subjected to overloading
19:06:35GertmAha, I can probably figure it out then.
19:06:38leorizejust define a proc like this: proc `==`(a, b: YourType): bool
19:06:48GertmI just overload the < and > for MyType.
19:07:18GertmOk, I'll work with this for a bit. Thanks guys.
19:07:35leorizesome operators in Nim are template
19:07:45leorizeyou can just implement `<` and you got a free `>` :P
19:08:01leorizeoops it's the other way around
19:10:49planetis[m]Gertm: take a look at system https://nim-lang.org/docs/system.html#%3C%2CEnum%2CEnum
19:11:03planetis[m]you can overload these procs
19:11:54planetis[m]however don't do the same for the templates
19:12:11planetis[m]https://nim-lang.org/docs/system.html#18
19:13:11planetis[m]found a link for you https://nim-lang.org/docs/tut1.html#procedures-operators
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19:53:11FromGitter<liquid600pgm> any people experienced with OpenGL out there?
19:53:52FromGitter<liquid600pgm> I'm having a problem where there's a segfault *somewhere* in the driver (thanks nvidia) on `glDrawArrays`/`glDrawElements` and can't figure out why it happens
19:58:04Zevvyeah good luck with that
19:59:38ZevvglDrawElements() is tricky - you pass a pointer to CPU memory
20:00:00Zevvonly when rendering actually happens - at swap or earlier, depending on the implementation - the memory is accessed
20:00:06Zevvyou have to make sure the data is still there
20:00:31ZevvglDrawElements will not copy data, only take not of the address
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20:02:47Zevvs/not/note/
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20:05:03Zevvno, I'm not being clear - glVertexPointer call is actually taking a pointer to your data, which is used by glDrawElements/glDrawArrays
20:08:42FromGitter<liquid600pgm> I'm not using `glVertexPointer`
20:09:01FromGitter<liquid600pgm> I'm using `glBufferData` to init the array and `glBufferSubData` to later fill it
20:10:38ZevvI believe that's similar. You pass a pointer to CPU memory, which only gets consumed by later calls to glDrawSomething
20:10:47Zevvyou have to make sure the data is still there
20:11:18Zevvif that data lives on the stack and you're no longer in the same function, or if it was on heap and freed, funny stuff will happen
20:11:24FromGitter<liquid600pgm> aah, I just noticed the difference between my old and new code
20:11:26Zevvwhich appears indeed to be *somewhere* in the GL driver
20:11:56FromGitter<liquid600pgm> basically, I have a Gfx and GfxContext object, in the old version I store vertices on the Gfx and in the new one on the GfxContext
20:12:07FromGitter<liquid600pgm> the GfxContext is short lived, there's one per frame
20:15:10Zevvso, found the problem?
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21:08:42planetis[m]what to do, you guys want a bug report for iterators
21:08:56*planetis[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/erCyLyJNZPuWddtegKFoXYzf >
21:10:28planetis[m]what im doing is like this https://gist.github.com/b3liever/79503c6630dc6e216366650d3df4a762 but this runs fine
21:12:27planetis[m]i discovered this by accident (i dont use the default contains), it might have to do with the refactorings
21:12:53planetis[m]previously (a month ago) my code worked
21:16:57FromGitter<liquid600pgm> Zevv: nope, that still persists
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21:17:07FromGitter<liquid600pgm> I'll think about it tommorow
21:19:44FromGitter<liquid600pgm> I'm not sure what could be causing that, I removed all seq parameter passing and made everything more direct and it still doesn't want to work
21:27:29krux02liquid600pgm: for opengl problems, use a debugger, in my opinion apitrace is the best
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21:27:57krux02https://github.com/apitrace/apitrace
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21:43:50clyybberplanetis[m]: I'd extract a minimal test case and report it.
21:44:20planetis[m]i can't bc it works
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21:44:44planetis[m]i will release the whole project and report
21:46:33I_Right_IHey, so hows the new runtime prototype coming along?
21:49:12planetis[m]btw is this implimented: https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#types-package-level-objects
21:50:24planetis[m]is a module a package?
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