<< 07-10-2017 >>
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02:17:29skrylarzacharycarter: so the patents on S3C texture compression are expiring \o/
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05:06:19FromGitter<mratsim> @dom96 If you only need mean/median over axis Arraymancer (and neo) do it. Though there is no way to convert to/from Nim data or CSV at the moment
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06:27:28FromGitter<qqtop> @dom96 https://github.com/qqtop/nimdataframe
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08:01:50salewskiAraq, I have still some headache with wrapping functions like cairo_surface_create_similar ()
08:01:53salewskihttps://www.cairographics.org/manual-1.0.2/cairo-cairo-surface-t.html#cairo-surface-create-similar
08:02:08salewskias these allocate very much memory.
08:02:49salewskiWhen I use the ordinary aproach with finalizers and proxy objects allocated on the heap, then
08:03:18salewskithe freeing of the memory may be very much delayed I guess?
08:04:17salewskicairo_surface_create_similar() for example may be called for each frame, so 60 times a second allocating a few MB
08:04:57salewskifor each call. May it be better to use destructors than finalizer for such proxy objects?
08:06:29salewskiI think you told me that destructors are still experimental, but in https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/3211
08:07:04salewskiwizzardx wrote that hi is using destructors for his sdl wrapper.
08:07:08salewskiDone.
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08:31:38FromGitter<mratsim> Would be interested to know this as well. I may have to allocate/free memory on GPU several times a second (I guess I really should look into memory pools)
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08:45:44Araqthey are highly experimental.
08:45:58AraqI'm working day and night on a solution.
08:49:24salewskiSo for now we should manually release the memory in heavy cases as for the cairo_surface_create_similar() example?
08:50:58salewski(For Ruby the situation was similar some years ago, without manually freeing the memory crashes resulted.)
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09:05:59Araqsalewski: yes
09:10:06salewskiOK, bye.
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10:03:56user0__Hi. If Nim can compile to C++, wouldn't it be really easy to inter-operate with imported C++ data structures? For example classes like std::string? If so, is there any guide or example on how to "embed" mini programs into a large C++ project?
10:08:51FromGitter<mratsim> @user0__ https://nim-lang.org/docs/backends.html#backend-code-calling-nim-nim-invocation-example-from-c
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11:18:30FromGitter<zacharycarter> skrylar: sweeeet
11:23:10FromGitter<mratsim> @dom96 I’ve reproduced the nim-glm showstopper C++ bug with a small test case https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/6455. It seems more like a core diffrence between what is allowed in C and C++ though so I’m not sure where to start fixing it. (cc @Araq)
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11:51:22FromGitter<BigEpsilon> @user0__ , yes you can easly use cpp data structure with nim. I use vectors coupled with std::move when I need maximum performance
11:53:05*dom96 is considering getting a Nim stand at FOSDEM
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12:08:02dom96mratsim: nice, thanks for looking into it!
12:10:54FromGitter<mratsim> no problem, it completely broke Cuda for me since yesterday I replaced closures by map templates (increasing speed by x4) and Cuda needs C++ :/
12:16:33dom96D:
12:22:38FromGitter<zacharycarter> krux02: you around?
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12:42:09Araqmratsim: isn't that just the "mitems does not work for C++" bug?
12:42:27FromGitter<mratsim> Ah, there is a bug like this?
12:43:23FromGitter<mratsim> It worked for me before while i used closures
12:43:42FromGitter<mratsim> but when using {.inject.} it doesn't
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12:44:51Araqhttps://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/4910
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12:56:26FromGitter<mratsim> Argh, yeah probably.
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13:22:50federico3any way to iterate an openArray getting keys and values from the for?
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13:23:43Araqfederico3: pairs?
13:27:15FromGitter<Yardanico> well for some reason you can't use tuple unpacking in for loops with openarrays :)
13:27:32federico3hm, this syntax is confusing: if I create an openarray with {"a": 10, ... } the array can't be unpacked in tuples
13:27:59FromGitter<Yardanico> yeah, it can't, you would unpack key and val in for loop body
13:28:04FromGitter<Yardanico> or just use data[0] and data[1]
13:28:14federico3also the syntax has nothing to do with tables or other associative maps and does not guarantee unicity of the "keys"
13:28:23FromGitter<Yardanico> yeah
13:28:29FromGitter<Bennyelg> Jester Nim + VueJS what a lovley combination I created 
13:28:46FromGitter<Yardanico> why not use karax instead? :)
13:28:55FromGitter<Yardanico> so you would have almost pure nim
13:29:05FromGitter<Bennyelg> Because hard for me understand without having guidelines
13:29:28FromGitter<Bennyelg> Im sure going to leave for karax sometime soon
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13:31:29dom96Bennyelg: awesome, how are you finding Jester? :)
13:31:33FromGitter<zacharycarter> Araq: https://imgur.com/a/aj766
13:32:10FromGitter<Bennyelg> @dom96 I found it great framework just keep the hard work
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13:32:42FromGitter<zacharycarter> jester + karax + https://github.com/pragmagic/redux.nim = ultimate nim stack
13:33:12dom96might do another live stream today, maybe working on Jester.
13:34:24FromGitter<Bennyelg> @zacharycarter Nice!
13:34:40dom96I ended up creating a static for loop using a macro for my assignment. Should this be in the stdlib?
13:35:07FromGitter<zacharycarter> @Bennyelg : not sure what the Nice was to but thanks regardless :P
13:36:11FromGitter<Bennyelg> the jester + karax, just starting to get my hands into that stack, If I will own a startup one day I'm sure Nim will be top to button most of the cases
13:37:14FromGitter<zacharycarter> oh :/ I'm more excited about my RTS screenshot :P
13:37:23FromGitter<zacharycarter> although I still don't think I'm doing this whole stencil buffer thing correctly
13:37:59dom96zacharycarter: that's awesome. Are you planning on using your engine to make some games in the long run or are you just having fun implementing this graphics algorithms?
13:38:42FromGitter<zacharycarter> dom96: I'd definitely like to turn this little rts experiment into something
13:38:51FromGitter<zacharycarter> and thank you!
13:39:59FromGitter<zacharycarter> I need an opengl guru
13:40:04federico3zacharycarter how are you creating terrains? shameless plug: https://github.com/FedericoCeratto/wave_function_collapse
13:41:12FromGitter<zacharycarter> these aren't procedurally generated I'm rendering TMX tilemaps in json format
13:41:18FromGitter<zacharycarter> but procgen needs to be looked into
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13:43:08FromGitter<zacharycarter> federico3 that looks awesome btw
13:43:41federico3thanks! (but I only ported the algo, not invented it)
13:43:49FromGitter<zacharycarter> I was waiting for someone to port that
13:43:58FromGitter<zacharycarter> I'm familiar with the original
13:45:48FromGitter<Yardanico> what theme do you use for vscode guys?
13:46:05FromGitter<zacharycarter> default?
13:53:49FromGitter<edubart> dark molokai
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13:59:59FromGitter<mratsim> Dark+
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14:15:42FromGitter<Yardanico> LOL https://spacechan.xyz/lynx/res/153.html
14:21:04FromGitter<Yardanico> someone got so upset by being banned by Araq so he shared this chat log on pastebin and this website (some board)
14:23:39FromGitter<Yardanico> also you can now easily search my nickname in google :P
14:23:57FromGitter<Yardanico> it's entirely unique
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15:01:21FromGitter<Yardanico> what can I do if I get ⏎ gc.nim(279) asgnRefNoCycle ⏎ SIGSEGV: Illegal storage access. (Attempt to read from nil?) ?
15:06:34PMunchTry to read from somewhere else?
15:29:59onionhammerAraq have you looked into immix gc ?
15:30:48FromGitter<Yardanico> link for this immix gc (in case someone wants to read about it): http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/speedway/DaCapo/papers/immix-pldi-2008.pdf
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15:45:50FromGitter<Yardanico> PMunch: what do you mean by "read" ?
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15:49:59Araqonionhammer: of course. what about it?
15:50:49Araqvardanico: think my ban was inappropriate?
15:51:42FromGitter<Yardanico> nah, just was surprised that this man posted these logs online :P
15:54:16onionhammer@araq was just curious if you'd evaluated it in nim
15:54:21onionhammerimpressions etc
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16:05:49Araqonionhammer: requires the ability to move things around. that pretty much means it's unusable for Nim.
16:10:34PMunchYardanico, I was just joking. The error was that you were attempting to read from null, so I suggested trying to read from somewhere else :P
16:11:23couven92PMunch, sound advice, but not really helpful! :P
16:11:56PMunchAraq, he was being a bit annoying. Not sure if a ban was entirely necessary though. I'm thinking of writing a small article on compiling, transpiling, and Nim as this question keeps popping up. That way we can easily reference them to that and be done with it
16:13:14AraqI didn't ban him, I silenced him
16:14:24PMunchpotato tomato
16:16:06Araqlol
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16:20:07FromGitter<zacharycarter> hrm how should I do unit selection in this rts?
16:20:17FromGitter<zacharycarter> I right now have a glow effect working
16:21:06PMunchYou mean how you should highlight which units are selected?
16:21:29FromGitter<zacharycarter> basically how should I convey this visually
16:21:37FromGitter<zacharycarter> that a unit is selected
16:25:04Araqzacharycarter: show its health bar
16:26:34miranis there in nim some plotting library? (something like matplotlib, but it can be much less powerful, just for some basic plots)
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16:29:47FromGitter<zacharycarter> Araq: yeah but I mean like from a rendering / technical perspective
16:30:12FromGitter<zacharycarter> it's difficult when you have to take into account perspective
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16:31:31FromGitter<zacharycarter> I'd like to render a circle around the unit along with a health bar
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16:32:12FromGitter<zacharycarter> then you run into this whole problem - https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/81686/how-to-make-unit-selection-circles-merge
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16:32:55PMunchcircle around the base is a tried and true method
16:33:04PMunchIt really depends on your game however
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16:49:28FromGitter<stisa> miran I wrote (the beginning of) a toy one some time ago, no idea if it still works https://github.com/stisa/graph
16:50:31miranstisa: great, i'll take a look
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17:36:49FromGitter<D-K-E> Hi people, i am very interested in contributing to nim. I am not sure where to start though. I have very little experience in c++ and c, and a relatively large experience in python. I wrote small programs nim to get familiar with the syntax. I have also checked out some of the packages listed in the github repo, but they seem pretty advanced to start contributing. I am doing a phd which mostly deals with computer vision,
17:36:49FromGitter... and natural language processing applied to ancient languages, like ancient egyptian, ancient greek, etc. The goal for me is to have sufficient amount of experience to in nim, in order to start a project on those areas. Any suggestions or pointers to a well documented code base that is seeking a contributor and th ... [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=59d910b101110b72318a7100]
17:39:10FromGitter<zacharycarter> if you're at all interested in graphics programming / game development - I have a project I'm always seeking contributors for - but it sounds like maybe you should talk to @mratsim
17:39:31FromGitter<zacharycarter> just based on what you described as far as your interests
17:40:10FromGitter<Varriount> @D-K-E @mratsim has a tensor array library
17:40:56FromGitter<mratsim> yep, with a computer vision focus
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17:41:29FromGitter<mratsim> You can also check @edubart vision repo here https://github.com/edubart/arraymancer-vision
17:43:03FromGitter<mratsim> My future plans are there if you want to know where you’re stepping in: https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/3214
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18:01:33FromGitter<Varriount> @zacharycarter I wish I could recall how Star Trek Armada did unit selection
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18:08:20FromGitter<BigEpsilon> @D-K-E , I work professionally in computer vision and machine learning. For now I'm trying to enhance c2nim to the point that I'm able to wrap Opencv library. Once I finish I plan to do a bridge between opencv and @mratsim arraymancer. I think Nim can become a good alternative to c++ and python in the field of computer vision, as it syntax is close to python and its performance comparable to C++. In think
18:08:20FromGitter... contributing to Arraymancer could be a great thing for you.
18:10:28FromGitter<mratsim> nice to hear @BigEpsilon :)
18:11:42FromGitter<BigEpsilon> En tout cas bon courage pour ta lib :)
18:12:30FromGitter<BigEpsilon> J'aimerait bien conttribuer mais mon temps libre est très limité malheureusement
18:12:56FromGitter<BigEpsilon> your french @mratsim right ?
18:13:13FromGitter<mratsim> yes I am
18:13:34FromGitter<edubart> @BigEpsilon I also think the same, and joined forces with @mratsim in helping arraymancer envolve some weeks ago, one more contributor to the ecosystem would be great
18:14:05FromGitter<mratsim> It’s fine :). c2nim autogenerating OpenCV bindings would already be awesome
18:14:54FromGitter<BigEpsilon> well great I hope we can do good things :)
18:14:57FromGitter<edubart> there is an opencv binding in nim already, but I think its outdated https://github.com/dom96/nim-opencv
18:15:28FromGitter<BigEpsilon> yes and it is based on the C API
18:15:59dom96PRs welcome :)
18:16:10FromGitter<BigEpsilon> I'm working on the C++ API
18:16:14FromGitter<mratsim> Also Python doesn’t get OpenCV on Cuda, that would be killer
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18:16:21FromGitter<BigEpsilon> same as for python
18:16:42FromGitter<BigEpsilon> Yes I think we can do that
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18:18:27FromGitter<BigEpsilon> I'm trying to write an automatic wrapper generator like the python and Java ones
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18:18:50FromGitter<BigEpsilon> so it stays up to date with Opencv
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18:20:18dom96awesome
18:22:13FromGitter<edubart> c2nim does a pretty good job binding, I did bindings for MKLDNN and NNPack C libraries in a few minutes with just few hand fixes, then to make easier to use you can make a nim interface on top of it
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18:25:03FromGitter<mratsim> and @andrea was trying to get automatic bindings to Cuda & co
18:27:46FromGitter<BigEpsilon> its has some rough edges for C++, but that natural as C++ is so huge. I Think we should not hesitate to enhance c2nim when we encounter something that it fails to parse or translate. c2nim is one of the strengths of nim ecosystem.
18:28:38FromGitter<superfunc> q: is c2nim a custom parser?
18:31:17FromGitter<BigEpsilon> I'm not sure what you mean by custom parser, but I think it is.
18:31:25FromGitter<BigEpsilon> It is writen in nim
18:31:31FromGitter<edubart> @BigEpsilon what advantages OpenCV C++ bindings has on C bindings?
18:31:52FromGitter<BigEpsilon> the C api is outdated
18:31:57FromGitter<Yardanico> @superfunc yes, it's completely written in Nim
18:32:03FromGitter<superfunc> @BigEpsilon sorry that was unclear, I meant is it built on something like libclang
18:32:15FromGitter<Yardanico> no
18:32:22FromGitter<superfunc> Thanks @Yardanico
18:32:53FromGitter<BigEpsilon> The opencv mainteners wanted to remove the C api few years ago
18:33:13FromGitter<BigEpsilon> it it cover a small part of the api
18:33:22FromGitter<BigEpsilon> and it is not uptodate
18:33:56FromGitter<edubart> hmm got it
18:34:05FromGitter<BigEpsilon> I don't know if they have plans to remove now or make it on par with python api
18:34:36FromGitter<BigEpsilon> It is strange but python binding is better than the C ones :|
18:36:31FromGitter<mratsim> I’m sure some university has a Cray supercomputer hidden somewhere that rely on the C API :P
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19:15:42federico3mratsim have you had different outcomes with https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/6430 ?
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19:27:44FromGitter<mratsim> commented @federico3. It might be related to SVG images
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19:29:38federico3mratsim FWIW if you inject the SVG straight in the output HTML instead of linking it as an image it works
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19:41:13FromGitter<D-K-E> Thank you peaople. @BigEpsilon All right, I'll start with arraymancer, but I am also interested in your opencv bridge. @mratsim all right I forked the repo, maybe it would be better if I started with some refactoring to get the hang of it. I will make an issue about it. @edubart same thing goes for the arraymancer-vision.
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19:47:06FromGitter<mratsim> @D-K-E Don’t refactor for the weekend, I’m changing hundreds of lines: https://github.com/mratsim/Arraymancer/compare/metadataArray_v2. Also join our gitter chat https://gitter.im/Arraymancer/Lobby
19:48:41FromGitter<Yardanico> btw, I found first gist written in Nim: https://gist.github.com/miikka/770114
19:48:47FromGitter<Yardanico> it was easy to find :)
19:50:47FromGitter<Yardanico> also https://gist.github.com/Araq/835959 :)
19:51:42FromGitter<mratsim> or at least wait for 1 hour, I have one bug to fix with the current refactor that should take much longer @D-K-E
19:52:05FromGitter<Yardanico> and first nim gist by dom96! https://gist.github.com/dom96/866121
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19:53:08FromGitter<Yardanico> native bigints for nim in stdlib! https://gist.github.com/Araq/877043
19:54:18FromGitter<Yardanico> ah, no, not native it seems
19:57:05miranmratsim, on the forum you said that "lapack, like solving equations" is not a focus. does that mean we'll not see stuff for solving Ax = B, or something else?
19:58:14FromGitter<mratsim> I accept PRs or I will do it if it’s blocking someone to implement a ML algo.
19:58:37FromGitter<mratsim> It’s not a WONTFIX if that’s what you’re asking ;)
19:59:19miranok, so something like: it might be there one day, but it is not a priority for you
19:59:56FromGitter<mratsim> to be honest it’s probably a 30 min/1 hour PR, you can just steal the code from linalg/neo convert it to use Arraymancer data format and add tests
20:00:48miranhehe, ok, i might do it, but i'm just a beginner in nim, so it might take me 10x more time than you think :)
20:02:24FromGitter<mratsim> If you can join the gitter, that would be great so you can ask away if you have any question
20:03:50miranok, when i start working on it, i'll try to join the gitter. currently i have some python projects that need my attention, probably until the next weekend
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20:10:39Demosdom96: are there any best practices for packaging nimble packages as debs and rpms?
20:12:10dom96nope
20:12:37dom96In fact, I'm not sure it's possible right now.
20:12:47dom96There is no global Linux nimble package path supported by the Nim compiler
20:12:57Demosyeah there does not seem to be many options for avoiding nimble's dependency resolution either
20:13:15Demoshuh? can't you still use nim's --libs option
20:13:37Demossorry the --path option
20:13:40dom96you can
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20:13:49dom96but that would be annoying :)
20:14:15Demoswell right, but the compiler seems to search relative to itself
20:17:02Demosmy current approach is gunna be to parse the nimble dump output
20:17:07Demosthis is a bit of an issue tbh
20:25:17mirandom96: i have nim 0.17.0 installed from the main site, but i've seen recommendations to use choosenim - is it safe to install it and then use it to upgrade nim?
20:25:44miranor would it be better to uninstall current version and start clean with choosenim?
20:26:20dom96it's safer to uninstall the current version, but things should be okay if you use choosenim now
20:26:27dom96Just make sure to update the PATH correctly
20:28:18dom96Demos: we need to decide where the global install path for Nimble packages should be on Linux
20:28:27dom96and then add it to Nim's config file by default
20:28:33miranok, i'll try to install it without uninstalling, hoping everything will be ok :)
20:28:36dom96and Nimble needs to be made aware of this too
20:29:18Demosthat's not all though. Nimble will need ways to install into an arbitrary prefix and to not manage dependencies
20:30:06dom96yes
20:30:18dom96Nimble can already install to an arbitrary prefix
20:30:25Demosah I see it now
20:30:33dom96But it needs to support multiple prefixes at the same time
20:33:30mirandom96: i think i've made it :) it was easier than i thought
20:33:44dom96Awesome :D
20:35:53miranthank you for the meaningful and helpful warnings and hints during installation!
20:36:18dom96Glad you're finding them useful :)
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21:09:31FromGitter<BigEpsilon> If any one is interested at calling opencCV now for some specific task, it is not hard even without using a wrapper. ⏎ here a gist that may be helpful: https://gist.github.com/BigEpsilon/d8bb95f4442ed325aaaa17b0d69ad2fe
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22:07:28FromGitter<genotrance> can you write procs with templates?
22:07:49FromGitter<genotrance> or is that macro domain
22:08:02Araqeasily done with templates
22:11:10FromGitter<genotrance> can you name the proc based on the input to the template?
22:13:21Araqsure
22:17:57FromGitter<genotrance> @araq - how do I do that? ⏎ ⏎ ```template toHash(procname: string) = ⏎ proc procname() = ⏎ echo "test"``` ⏎ ⏎ doesn't work obviously [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=59d95294e44c43700a06c69c]
22:18:46Araqprocname: untyped
22:19:08FromGitter<zacharycarter> @Varriount I wish you could too :P
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22:26:44FromGitter<genotrance> @araq - cool that works, but I have to pass procname as is, I cannot prepend/append stuff to the value sent to the template - what is typed in the code is what I can send in
22:27:15Araqproc `prefix name suffix`()
22:27:48Araqbut I'm not sure I ever implemented it this way. in the worst case, you really have to use a macro instead
22:29:01FromGitter<genotrance> it doesn't like spaces in the name
22:30:05FromGitter<genotrance> This works: ⏎ ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` ⏎ ⏎ but I cannot prepend/append anything to that SHA256 without hardcoding it in the code [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=59d9556cbbbf9f1a3834472a]
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22:43:34FromGitter<genotrance> > https://tio.run/##PYo7CsAgEAX7PcVipZArpM8B0onFRiQuxA8qyfGNQkj15g0TOfTOIafSsNFxuQoANxUkXDG6Z59O11Y4ngvmkqxURiqAieNzbBtLNWJnfULhWQCQnmuG/IJfSdX7Cw ⏎ @Yardanico - I tried this and it only works if the proc() signature is consistent - you cannot put different functions in together in the table
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23:01:13JappleAckhey guys, how do i parse command-line arguments? i mean as bare array of arguments?
23:01:38JappleAcki'm actually can't search an answer by bunch of different requests
23:01:53JappleAcki think tutorial should point on it clearly
23:04:52JappleAckoh, i just cracked this mistery, command-line argument just called 'param' in 'os' module
23:13:44FromGitter<genotrance> use paramCount() and paramStr()
23:13:56JappleAckyep, get it, thanks anyway
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