<< 07-12-2023 >>
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00:30:01FromDiscord<nervecenter> In reply to @Evolver "I'm not the only": Literally what...I can faintly see it but you gotta stretch the hell out of something that abstract, says more about you than Andreas
00:33:09FromDiscord<bringmethemonke> Hello, sorry if I'm in the wrong channel. I discovered nim ~2018 and really love the language. I haven't used nim in a couple of years was looking to come back to it. It looks like nimgl has died since, so does anyone know of any good Vulkan bindings? IIRC I ended up leaving nim because it had almost no actively maintained libraries (for graphics/game dev) at the time.
00:33:41FromDiscord<bringmethemonke> (edit) "Hello, sorry if I'm in the wrong channel. I discovered nim ~2018 ... and" added "and joined here a year ago or so"
00:35:19FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> https://github.com/search?q=vulkan%20language%3Anim&type=repositories
00:35:28FromDiscord<bringmethemonke> Thank you
00:35:53FromDiscord<bringmethemonke> pffft its a bot. Maybe I should go to bed at a decent time for once lol
00:36:42FromDiscord<inventormatt> that's not an actual bot that's just a message from another server that is bridged to here
00:37:34FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well another platform
00:37:42FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Atleast I don't think I'm a bot
00:37:45FromDiscord<bringmethemonke> Ah. Oh, yeah, I remember that now. Sorry, it's been a really long time since I've been here. Appreciate the help though. I guess I'll hold off on anything more here until I'm a bit more awake.
00:38:11FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's fine I'm hardly ever awake here
00:38:58FromDiscord<bringmethemonke> Haha, yeah, I know that how that feels for sure. Iirc, you helped me out a lot with learning nim. Not sure if you were the one that helped me with Opengl or not though.
00:39:22FromDiscord<bringmethemonke> (edit) "learning" => "improving at"
00:40:13FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Unlikely if it was 2019/2018 😄
00:41:49FromDiscord<bringmethemonke> Hmm, yeah. Just did a quick search through my old posts, looks like it wasn't. TBH, I'm not sure where I was for nim stuff back then. Looks like my first post here was in 2022 asking about OpenGL and generics.
00:42:14FromDiscord<bringmethemonke> Well, anyway, thanks for the help
00:45:45FromDiscord<bostonboston> Hey beef, I know you've had some experience c#, do you have any critiques of my recent forum post
00:46:48FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> So I'd suggest using `openArray` instead of `ptr UncheckedArray`
00:46:58FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> The benefit is this emits a `ptr UncheckedArray[T], len: int`
00:48:38FromDiscord<bostonboston> Like in the parameters? As in there's a hidden len passed to a function that takes an openArray
00:48:46FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yes
00:49:09FromDiscord<bostonboston> Interesting
00:49:11FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> `proc doThing(oa: openArray[T])` generates `oaData: ptr UncheckedArray[T], len: int`
00:50:07FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I do not know much about unmanaged C# but everything seems fine
00:55:35FromDiscord<bostonboston> That's good to hear
02:05:50FromDiscord<cy_tek> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/MsQwk
02:10:26FromDiscord<cy_tek> I'm also trying to run this using `nimble run` in case that makes a difference to access the `pixels` library used from the Mastering Nim book 🙂
02:11:45FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Might be amd vs arm issue?
02:12:07FromDiscord<cy_tek> Like I said, it's not an m1 mac, It's an intel chip 🙂
02:12:49FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> The library is named the same as the error provides?
02:14:38FromDiscord<cy_tek> libSDL2.dylib is an exact match for the name of what it's looking for.
02:16:11FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> You are sure those are amd libs?
02:16:12FromDiscord<cy_tek> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/CtDQL
02:17:29FromDiscord<cy_tek> In reply to @Elegantbeef "You are sure those": They should be, I'm able to use them just fine from other languages like Zig, but is there another way I should check?
02:17:49FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> If they work from another language they should be fine
02:17:53FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Just wanted to make sure of that
02:18:11FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I cannot help anymore than throwing darts from 300m away 😄
02:18:39FromDiscord<cy_tek> In reply to @Elegantbeef "I cannot help anymore": No worries man, thanks for trying to help 😄 !
02:20:44FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> That seems like a fix no?
02:21:13FromDiscord<michaelb.eth> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/oVecZ
02:22:05FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> What is that even supposed to do?
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02:25:51FromDiscord<cy_tek> In reply to @Elegantbeef "If they work from": So, I'm wondering if you know of the best way to report an issue? It turns out the code works just fine if I run `nimble build`, it finds the dylibs just fine with no issues. If I run it with `nimble run` though, it fails to find the libraries 🤯
02:26:20FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> github
02:26:27FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Think there is a repo for the book
02:26:28FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> No clue
02:26:40FromDiscord<cy_tek> Awesome, thanks man, have a good one!
02:26:47FromDiscord<michaelb.eth> In reply to @Elegantbeef "What is that even": not sure, but I saw it "in the wild" re: nim-package-directory
02:27:14FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well it should be `(result.a, result.b, _, _) = ...` but that does compile so uhhh
02:27:18FromDiscord<michaelb.eth> it's the first thing the compiler fails on when trying to do `nim c -r package_directory.nim`, when using Nim devel
02:28:04FromDiscord<michaelb.eth> https://github.com/FedericoCeratto/nim-morelogging/blob/master/morelogging.nim#L199
02:31:25FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Seems like devel changed/broke unpacking so an issue might be required
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04:16:37nmzcan someone give me an example of using multiReplace?
04:18:22FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> `"aabbcc".multiReplace({"a": "b", "c": "d"})`
04:19:11nmzthanks
04:19:22nmzwait, I don't need to re"blah" ?
04:19:35nmzisn't pattern a Regex...!?
04:19:48FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> there is a `strutils` and `regex`
04:21:17nmzwhat do you mean by that?
04:21:31FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> there are two multireplaces
04:22:52nmz... lol I was using the std/re version
04:23:31FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Yea don't use regex it's not good for your health
04:26:20nmzdoes it offer any dis/advantages?
04:26:31FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> It's regex that's it
04:27:48nmzstdutils does mention which is the pattern and what the replacement is
04:27:57nmzdoes not
04:28:18nmzbut I'll stop using std/re, thanks for the help
04:28:50FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Well I just dislike regex
04:29:44nmzI'm coming from lua so worrying about groups and matching is just infuriating
04:31:07FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Unless you need pattern matching skip out on regex libraries
04:36:50nmzwhat are you recommending instead? looping through the string using items() ?
04:39:36FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Depends what you want to do
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08:21:29FromDiscord<graveflo> ok beef, if you are still here I am looking at some code that you committed to the compiler source and I'm scratching my head. `procTypeRel` calls `getProcConvMismatch` and that returns `isConvertible` sometimes.. what does that actually mean, that a `proc` may be convertible to another `proc`?
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08:58:46FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> @graveflo consider `proc(){.gcsafe.}` to `proc()`
08:59:52FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Actually that's for `proc(){.nimcall.}` -\> `proc(){.closure.}`
09:00:07FromDiscord<graveflo> the one I am looking at is `proc foo[B](x: int)` to `proc (x: int)`. I suppose it means that the back end could technically make it work even though they are slightly different. Kinda like how ranges can be convertible or numbers with some extra logic
09:00:11FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> nimcall and non annotated implicitly converts to `closure` variations
09:01:01FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Right
09:01:09FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Atleast I think so
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09:02:13FromDiscord<graveflo> alright. I'm just going to have to think about this more. The back end hates `foo[B](x: int)` when it is never actually instantiated go figure 😆 Not sure what to do but I think that your thing is not the problem
09:02:20FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> To be clear I did not really write that code as much as clean it up a tinge
09:02:28FromDiscord<graveflo> gotcha
09:02:44FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Wait what are you trying to make work?
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09:05:19FromDiscord<graveflo> there is some fancy code that tries to find the correct operand to pass to a function when the symbol is a choice. It does some `typeRel` esque stuff to see if it can narrow the decision down to one operand. The problem is that it does overload resolution on the operands during that process which makes no sense because the operand itself is not a call site and has no operands of it's own. Apparently making it stop that can also make it c
09:06:31FromDiscord<graveflo> because `isConverible` > `isNone` but that doesn't mean you are in the clear to chose the symbol. There has to be some check that I should insert somewhere idk
09:07:17FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Is there a small code example?
09:09:45FromDiscord<graveflo> there might be a way to trigger it without the PR code but I only found this from the CI so I dont know about that yet
09:10:42FromDiscord<graveflo> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/Zn7Wl
09:12:18FromDiscord<graveflo> oh wait it's because I removed the unresolved check but I did that to make macros work so I probably have to just alter that so `untyped` can accept them but nothing else
09:16:40FromDiscord<graveflo> ah crap, it looks like that was it.. now look like an idiot. I guess just talking about it helps sometimes
09:17:37FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Quack quack quack
09:29:50PMunch_Is there a rubber duck emoji?
09:30:12FromDiscord<graveflo> 🦆 best I could do
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10:18:58NimEventerNew post on r/nim by momoPFL01: Followup on Nim Treesitter support in Neovim, see https://reddit.com/r/nim/comments/18csls9/followup_on_nim_treesitter_support_in_neovim/
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12:21:52FromDiscord<hmmm4m> I want my 10 minutes back :nim1:
12:23:44FromDiscord<hmmm4m> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/GC4Dt
12:24:33FromDiscord<griffith1deadly> In reply to @hmmm4m "err guys in 2.0.0": latest devel?
12:24:39FromDiscord<hmmm4m> yepyep
12:24:54FromDiscord<hmmm4m> on playground
12:35:23FromDiscord<griffith1deadly> In reply to @hmmm4m "on playground": don't see that in https://play.nim-lang.org/
12:41:10FromDiscord<griffith1deadly> oh i misread first message
12:42:20FromDiscord<hmmm4m> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/LJTHB
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12:58:29PMunchhmmm4m, create an issue on GitHub, that must be a mistake
12:58:47FromDiscord<hmmm4m> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/Sd6iH
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13:01:58FromDiscord<ringabout> Well, it's the new type mismatch errors, which are more concise and readable at the expense of some accurate diagnoses
13:03:13FromDiscord<ringabout> `--legacy:verboseTypeMismatch` is an option if you prefer the old one
13:05:37FromDiscord<odexine> i can see how its more concise but i dont think many people would describe this as more readable
13:10:40PMunchYeah I've had to stare at that message a bit too long a couple of times myself to realise what was wrong
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13:12:04FromDiscord<ringabout> It appears to me that it's relatively more readable than the old one
13:19:49systemoniaIf I wanted to use this for every compilation ever, would putting "--legacy:verboseTypeMismatch" as-is in the nim.cfg file work?
13:20:12PMunchI like the new numbered thing, but it should add back the hint that it didn't match because it was not var
13:22:16PMunchMaybe something as simple as: https://paste.rs/5d1qT.txt
13:22:40PMunchMan, ix.io is _still_ down.. Might have to replace it with paste.rs on the playground..
13:24:25FromDiscord<ringabout> See also https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/9514
13:24:32FromDiscord<ringabout> And https://github.com/nim-lang/RFCs/issues/87
13:25:37FromDiscord<nnsee> actually PMunch i've been thinking of setting up a paste service (written in nim) for the playground
13:25:40FromDiscord<nnsee> if you're interested?
13:26:00PMunchOh, that'd be great!
13:26:15FromDiscord<nnsee> probably write it over this weekend
13:26:19PMunchIt was always a bit dodgy with the ix.io TOS to have that button there
13:26:49PMunchI mean it says you can't have automated uploads, so I figured that having to press a button didn't count as automated
13:28:13FromDiscord<nnsee> mine will have no such terms for the nim playground specifically :p
13:28:38PMunchPerfect!
13:29:11PMunchringabout, I really like the added proposals of chancyk and doofenstein in the forum as well
13:29:29PMunchPulling the mismatched type out like that makes it so much easier to spot what's wrong
13:29:52PMunchBut I think something like what I showed, where it gives some kind of hint that it's the var type specifically not matching would be a nice benefit
13:31:01PMunchCould even be a general purpose "extra" field which could contain other messages
13:31:19PMunchAs a general feedback though the new format is much nicer than the old one
13:31:55PMunchI wonder if it would be possible to somehow include information about mismatching converters..
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13:56:09FromDiscord<srabb> nim
13:56:45FromDiscord<bostonboston> nim
13:56:55FromDiscord<michaelb.eth> not NIM
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14:19:00FromDiscord<piqueiras> quick curiosity about performance, is it bad if I define a const inside a proc or is the compiler able to handle it
14:20:38FromDiscord<odexine> bad for what kind of performance? consts are inlined so ...?
14:21:43FromDiscord<piqueiras> I mean if every time I call the function it does something to it or only the 1st time
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14:24:54FromDiscord<piqueiras> but I mean you could define the const outside of the function, it would be the same then
14:25:19FromDiscord<odexine> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/0ry9O
14:25:32FromDiscord<odexine> yes indeed, consts are computed on compile time so there will not be a runtime cost aside from evaluating the result
14:26:19FromDiscord<odexine> that last part i mention would be the same whether defined inside or outside a proc, at least to my perception it would be
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14:44:38FromDiscord<piqueiras> cool
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15:28:47NimEventerNew Nimble package! moveiterators - Special iterators that use move semantics, see https://github.com/sls1005/moveiterators
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16:15:49NimEventerNew thread by Charles: Is it possible to encode constraints directly into a type, and enforce them at runtime?, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/10744
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17:51:00FromDiscord<.bobbbob> In reply to @odexine "yes indeed, consts are": a const in a function would only be usable in that function due to scope right?
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20:30:58PMunchAoC stream is live: https://www.twitch.tv/pmunche https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8tAFmCFfF4
20:54:12FromDiscord<cy_tek> sent a long message, see https://paste.rs/84HZg
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20:56:48FromDiscord<ieltan> In reply to @cy_tek "Hey everyone, I hope": I think `GC_unref() / GC_ref()` are what you need
20:57:05FromDiscord<ieltan> Assuming `--mm:arc/orc`
20:57:57FromDiscord<cy_tek> In reply to @ieltan "I think `GC_unref() /": Awesome! thanks so much, I'll look into those functions 🙂 And yup, I'm using --mm:orc (the default now I believe for Nim 2.0)
20:59:42FromDiscord<demotomohiro> In reply to @cy_tek "Hey everyone, I hope": Put the text in a string that exists while external library is refering it.↵And dont change the length of that string while external library is refering it.
21:01:32FromDiscord<ieltan> Also fwiw `string -> cstring` is zero cost, but `cstring -> string` is not, and you should definitely not use `cast` for these conversions
21:02:44FromDiscord<ieltan> Well, not directly, it's more tricky to go back to `string` because it need more information
21:03:09FromDiscord<ieltan> Surely someone more knowledgeable can send some input about it :p
21:04:36FromDiscord<cy_tek> That all makes sense, thanks @demotomohiro and @ieltan for the extra input 🙂 I freaking love how helpful and awesome the Nim community is. Just started using it and the community and language itself is blowing my mind with how awesome it is.
21:04:58FromDiscord<cy_tek> (edit) "it" => "Nim"
21:05:59FromDiscord<cy_tek> Been programming for 14 years, and this feels different in a really good way!
21:06:03FromDiscord<ieltan> Nim is by far the most pleasing language to interact with C imo, so many little things take make doing a usually bothersome task a good time
21:06:17FromDiscord<ieltan> Hope you'll discover that on your own 🙂
21:06:39FromDiscord<cy_tek> In reply to @ieltan "Hope you'll discover that": I'm sure I will in the very near future!
21:07:47FromDiscord<Phil> Yes I know inheritance on non ref-object types, these types are mere data vehicles between callbacks, they're not actually used for logic
21:07:56FromDiscord<Phil> (edit) "logic" => "logic, so that shouldn't be the issue"
21:08:41FromDiscord<ieltan> Hmm, I don't use inheritance much so I don't know much to be able to say where you went wrong unfortunately
21:09:00FromDiscord<ieltan> (edit) "much" => "enough"
21:09:09FromDiscord<Phil> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/vTyHF
21:09:23FromDiscord<ieltan> In reply to @isofruit "Hmm... so I have": Does it at least say the line where it blows up?
21:09:42FromDiscord<Phil> The invocation trying to instantiate AppContext
21:10:01FromDiscord<Phil> It's blowing upp explicitly after `let x = AppContext[AdwAppConfig]`
21:10:07FromDiscord<Phil> (edit) "upp" => "up"
21:10:19FromDiscord<systemonia> Are there any good tutorials for trying to learn meta programming in Nim? All the common google results are too complex for me
21:10:21FromDiscord<ieltan> My guess is that you're trying to use the `AppConfig` as a type class to constraint the generic and the type system doesn't like that
21:10:34FromDiscord<ieltan> (edit) "My guess is that you're trying to use the `AppConfig` ... as" added "object"
21:10:58FromDiscord<Phil> The thing is I've used inheritance like that before... though on ref-type inheritance and on generic procs rather than generic types
21:11:01FromDiscord<ieltan> And my uneducated guess is that `ref` object doesn't matter here
21:13:18FromDiscord<ieltan> I wonder why you're using inheritance (runtime type info) to express compile time type info, probably what you want is closer to type states. @Phil
21:13:48FromDiscord<Phil> Not out of my own volition, I am contributing to other peoples code 😛
21:14:15FromDiscord<Phil> What the author wanted to express in thsi case was that AppConfig has a bunch of fields. AdwAppConfig has exactly the same fields and a couple more as it is an extension of AppConfig
21:14:38FromDiscord<Phil> You can use one if you don't use GTK's libadwaita, with reduced featureset, and the other if you do want to use it
21:15:08FromDiscord<ieltan> In reply to @pengwyns "Are there any good": I learned reading and hacking other people macros
21:15:25FromDiscord<Phil> So it was mostly the extensibility aspect and expressing the interdependence, as any field/feature on AppConfig should be possible with AdwAppConfig etc.
21:15:32FromDiscord<ieltan> I'm sure there were a couple blog posts about it but I can't find them and I recall they weren't very deep in it anyways
21:16:19FromDiscord<ieltan> In reply to @ieltan "I learned reading and": (and also using `std/macros` ast debugging utilities I guess)
21:19:53FromDiscord<ieltan> In reply to @isofruit "What the author wanted": You should maybe tell the author to use case objects instead of this weird inheritance dance lol
21:20:38FromDiscord<ieltan> Would make it a lot more easier to contribute to it and extend
21:20:39FromDiscord<Phil> I mean, it's a data vehicle used between literally like 3 procs, the amount of logic resting on this doesn't really warrant bothering 😄
21:21:10FromDiscord<Phil> And a case object actually would not work well, as you'd be moving adwaita code that should be split out into an adwaita module into the gtk module
21:21:39FromDiscord<ieltan> Stolen from beef
21:22:04FromDiscord<Phil> THat makes no sense, what is State? TypeState?
21:22:21FromDiscord<Phil> The third line reads like tautology
21:22:35FromDiscord<ieltan> lol lemme pull my computer I'm on my phone
21:23:41FromDiscord<ieltan> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/eE4EU
21:29:18FromDiscord<ieltan> alright
21:29:36FromDiscord<ieltan> yeah actually this wont work, i just noticed the `config: T`
21:29:40FromDiscord<ieltan> scrap that
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21:58:47FromDiscord<ieltan> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/83HDv
21:59:25FromDiscord<ieltan> hm
21:59:27FromDiscord<ieltan> hold on
22:04:07FromDiscord<ieltan> In reply to @ieltan "<@180601887916163073> closest that can": Actually this doesn't even work, bummer
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23:00:40FromDiscord<piqueiras> If I have 2 custom implementations of compare, is there a way for sort in algorithm to sort using both?
23:01:03FromDiscord<piqueiras> That is first sort using cmp1 and in values which have the same result, sort under cmp2
23:02:47FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> the second parameter
23:08:25FromDiscord<piqueiras> huh?
23:08:40FromDiscord<piqueiras> like I know in sort you can use your own cmp
23:08:51FromDiscord<piqueiras> but to sort, then group and then sort every group
23:09:09FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> The second parameter of `sort` allows you to specify your own compare
23:10:28FromDiscord<piqueiras> yes but I want 2 different own compares
23:10:38FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> I just showed you how
23:10:46FromDiscord<piqueiras> oo
23:10:59FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Compare first with cmp1 then compare with cmp2 if you have a equal compare
23:11:07FromDiscord<piqueiras> yea okay you put cmp2 inside cmp1
23:11:19FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Not really I made cmp3
23:11:34FromDiscord<piqueiras> tttttrue
23:11:52FromDiscord<piqueiras> oh well its actually cool that way now that I notice
23:12:12FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/kU48s
23:19:10FromDiscord<bostonboston> Is there a way to get the CPU architecture at runtime
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23:35:20FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Why do you need it at runtime?
23:35:22FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> `hostCpu` is there for you
23:37:32FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/GnIH5
23:44:08FromDiscord<bostonboston> Thanks
23:44:25FromDiscord<bostonboston> Also, anyone happen to know of a good example of a hybrid nimble library
23:47:15FromDiscord<Elegantbeef> Nico
23:50:55FromDiscord<bostonboston> And does `nimble sometask -someflag` forward the flag