| 00:04:29 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> @aintea I imagine it's less about maturity and just more that people already have a preferred system language and a preferred even higher level language(Go/C#/Kotlin) |
| 00:05:25 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Like even Rust has problems getting into established doors |
| 00:15:06 | * | sadomei quit (Quit: sadomei) |
| 00:18:17 | * | shrewd joined #nim |
| 00:19:22 | * | shrewd quit (Changing host) |
| 00:19:22 | * | shrewd joined #nim |
| 00:23:02 | FromDiscord | <heysokam> sent a long message, see https://pasty.ee/ncEJqsHF |
| 00:24:31 | FromDiscord | <heysokam> Also, framing the question with "is too immature", for a 15y/o lang... is giving me strong "loaded question" vibes |
| 00:27:56 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Hey Nim is able to drink in its home country |
| 00:28:29 | FromDiscord | <zumi.dxy> In reply to @heysokam "Also, framing the question": tbf Rust has this lobbed at it too↵it's almost as old as Nim↵but wayyyyy more popular↵it (the users that is) want to kill C for this |
| 00:29:07 | FromDiscord | <zumi.dxy> what one calls "immature" others call "organic" (see php) |
| 00:31:52 | FromDiscord | <heysokam> My point is that you usually hear "Right tool for the right job", and that's fine for personal projects↵But, when it comes to business success... its more about:↵"Right people for the right team, and choose the tool that those people can use and/or learn better" |
| 00:32:26 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Surely you can hire a team of Nim programmers! 😄 |
| 00:35:02 | FromDiscord | <zumi.dxy> too bad they're all at status 😏 |
| 00:35:17 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Hey code tracer has Nim developers |
| 00:35:32 | FromDiscord | <zumi.dxy> (treeform still works at reddit, right?) |
| 00:36:18 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> No clue would have to ask him yourself |
| 00:51:16 | FromDiscord | <System64 ~ Flandre Scarlet> In reply to @zumi.dxy "what one calls "immature"": php is a mistake... |
| 02:30:18 | FromDiscord | <saemideluxe> Definitely mature enough. I am using it in my company for client projects. There might a bit less packages available than in other eco-systems, but average quality of the existing ones feel higher than e.g. in Python or JS.↵Also, a language where I can upgrade all code in my projects to version 2 of the language in the blink of an eye, has a level of maturity that I find really impressive. But I also a Python2/3 transition survivor, |
| 02:31:57 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> "Surviving Python 2" has to be a book somewhere |
| 02:34:43 | FromDiscord | <saemideluxe> In regards to hiring: Yeah, finding "Nim" devs might be hard. But a decent developer can get quickly into Nim and become productive I would say. So, as others have pointed out, it then becomes a point of preference or "culture-match"... |
| 02:37:36 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Yea aside from the things noobs shouldn't touch it's a very accessible language |
| 03:25:11 | * | rockcavera joined #nim |
| 04:43:01 | * | tiorock joined #nim |
| 04:43:01 | * | rockcavera is now known as Guest9561 |
| 04:43:01 | * | tiorock is now known as rockcavera |
| 04:45:10 | * | tiorock joined #nim |
| 04:45:10 | * | tiorock quit (Changing host) |
| 04:45:10 | * | tiorock joined #nim |
| 04:45:10 | * | rockcavera quit (Killed (tantalum.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))) |
| 04:45:10 | * | tiorock is now known as rockcavera |
| 04:46:34 | * | Guest9561 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 06:21:09 | * | coldfeet joined #nim |
| 06:28:20 | * | tiorock joined #nim |
| 06:28:20 | * | tiorock quit (Changing host) |
| 06:28:20 | * | tiorock joined #nim |
| 06:28:20 | * | rockcavera is now known as Guest1182 |
| 06:28:20 | * | Guest1182 quit (Killed (osmium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))) |
| 06:28:20 | * | tiorock is now known as rockcavera |
| 06:30:24 | * | tiorock joined #nim |
| 06:30:24 | * | tiorock quit (Changing host) |
| 06:30:24 | * | tiorock joined #nim |
| 06:30:24 | * | rockcavera quit (Killed (tungsten.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))) |
| 06:30:24 | * | tiorock is now known as rockcavera |
| 06:36:28 | FromDiscord | <abraham> I would 2000% take a pay cut to write Nim code for a living. |
| 06:43:56 | FromDiscord | <odexine> What if that pay cut were 100% |
| 06:51:19 | * | SchweinDeBurg quit (Quit: WeeChat 4.6.0-dev) |
| 06:51:45 | * | SchweinDeBurg joined #nim |
| 06:53:20 | * | ntat joined #nim |
| 07:19:01 | * | GnuYawk6733 quit (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 07:19:29 | * | GnuYawk6733 joined #nim |
| 07:49:27 | * | MauGal joined #nim |
| 08:10:06 | FromDiscord | <rakgew> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=bYmvXUGk |
| 08:12:31 | * | ntat_ joined #nim |
| 08:12:59 | * | ntat quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:14:49 | FromDiscord | <rakgew> nvm found parseEnum from strutils |
| 08:15:32 | * | mahlon quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 08:15:53 | * | ntat_ is now known as ntat |
| 08:21:45 | * | derpydoo joined #nim |
| 08:27:15 | FromDiscord | <lainlaylie> that gets you `sk` from "skim" though, which is the opposite of what you want |
| 08:45:32 | FromDiscord | <aintea> In reply to @heysokam "Business tech choices are": That's a really good answer, thanks for taking your time to write this |
| 08:45:52 | FromDiscord | <aintea> It explains the problem really good |
| 08:46:21 | FromDiscord | <aintea> Btw are there topics in which Nim doesn't have a lot of library to choose from ? |
| 08:46:56 | FromDiscord | <aintea> And second question: since Nim can transpile to JavaScript, can it interoperate with JavaScript libraries ? |
| 09:10:45 | * | MauGal quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 09:20:01 | Amun-Ra | sure, if you write proper declarations |
| 09:20:43 | Amun-Ra | nim has to know what to call and with what arguments first |
| 09:25:20 | FromDiscord | <rakgew> right, but when reversing the enum key/vals and asking with `.symbolName` from std/enumutils I get "skim" for "sk".↵(@lainlaylie) |
| 09:27:49 | FromDiscord | <rakgew> but probably there are better ways to o string to string lookup tables. I was just curious if I could do it via an enum (instead of tables (via hashing)). but probably the parseEnum is not more efficient than just a plain old table[string, string] |
| 09:32:18 | * | coldfeet quit (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 10:09:59 | FromDiscord | <rakgew> hm interesting, so `parseEnum` actually uses the macro `genEnumCaseStmt` |
| 10:18:56 | * | mahlon joined #nim |
| 10:19:32 | * | tiorock joined #nim |
| 10:19:32 | * | rockcavera quit (Killed (iridium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))) |
| 10:19:32 | * | tiorock is now known as rockcavera |
| 10:21:13 | ehmry | .tokyovigilante: that wayland codegenerator is hell to read so I'm curious if you can do something useful with it |
| 10:43:29 | FromDiscord | <odexine> In reply to @rakgew "right, but when reversing": Yes, you can get the string from the enum just by using the to string operator $ |
| 10:55:11 | FromDiscord | <rakgew> looking at performance and readability, for a string-to-string lookup, which would you think is be a better idea?↵● use a lookup into a regular tables↵● use an enum-indexed array with access via parseEnum↵● use a function with case statement that simply lists the mappings one by one |
| 11:20:02 | * | derpydoo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 13:40:01 | * | nyeaa49284230101 quit (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 13:42:47 | * | nyeaa49284230101 joined #nim |
| 13:49:28 | FromDiscord | <lainlaylie> given that parseEnum uses a case statement anyway and applies ident normalization to the input string, option 3 is better than option 2↵as for option 1 vs option 3, it would probably depend on how many mappings there are |
| 13:49:57 | FromDiscord | <lainlaylie> there's also std/strtabs |
| 13:59:01 | FromDiscord | <luteva> If you need pivot operations on your data: I just released nivot - a pivot library for nim.↵https://github.com/Luteva-ssh/nivot↵Maybe this can help 🙂 |
| 15:06:22 | FromDiscord | <rakgew> huh - strtabs? never heard of it - sounds like a perfect fit!↵thank you so much!!↵(@lainlaylie) |
| 15:30:27 | * | shrewd quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 15:30:48 | * | shrewd joined #nim |
| 15:37:40 | FromDiscord | <madonuko> anything similar to rust `chumsky` |
| 15:37:56 | FromDiscord | <madonuko> trying to make a parser for a config format |
| 15:38:09 | FromDiscord | <madonuko> might use `lilt` if no other options |
| 16:13:36 | FromDiscord | <madonuko> nvm lilt is basically unusable with modern nim |
| 16:16:03 | FromDiscord | <madonuko> I'll just use pegs then |
| 17:12:04 | * | scmutalisk joined #nim |
| 17:13:45 | * | ntat quit (Quit: Leaving) |
| 17:16:06 | * | ntat joined #nim |
| 17:35:50 | FromDiscord | <madonuko> holy smoke npeg is probably what I want after all |
| 18:15:27 | * | tiorock joined #nim |
| 18:15:27 | * | tiorock quit (Changing host) |
| 18:15:27 | * | tiorock joined #nim |
| 18:15:27 | * | rockcavera is now known as Guest9820 |
| 18:15:27 | * | Guest9820 quit (Killed (erbium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))) |
| 18:15:27 | * | tiorock is now known as rockcavera |
| 18:17:35 | * | tiorock joined #nim |
| 18:17:35 | * | tiorock quit (Changing host) |
| 18:17:35 | * | tiorock joined #nim |
| 18:17:35 | * | rockcavera is now known as Guest5263 |
| 18:17:35 | * | tiorock is now known as rockcavera |
| 18:20:50 | * | Guest5263 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 18:42:44 | * | jjido joined #nim |
| 19:47:18 | tokyovigilante | ehmry: thanks, it was more helpful for giving me the push to write my own codegen, which was actually pretty straightforward. I'd already hand-written a few Nim translations of the xdg-shell header (I'm using the C libwayland-client lib and compiling in the generated C private-code) so it's actually been pretty easy to patch wayland-scanner to rewrite the header into a nim objcet |
| 19:47:23 | tokyovigilante | *object |
| 19:55:32 | tokyovigilante | for example here's the output for the xdg_popup_listener struct: https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=cQQVoPTd |
| 19:55:47 | tokyovigilante | Will share the code once I'm done |
| 21:52:31 | * | jjido quit (Quit: My laptop has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 22:06:04 | * | ntat quit (Quit: Leaving) |
| 22:17:57 | * | thunder quit (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by metasintactic))) |
| 22:17:57 | * | metasintactic joined #nim |
| 22:23:23 | * | thunder joined #nim |
| 22:27:12 | * | metasintactic quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 23:28:46 | * | shrewd quit (Quit: shrewd) |
| 23:29:41 | * | shrewd joined #nim |
| 23:39:23 | FromDiscord | <System64 ~ Flandre Scarlet> About JS↵Is it possible to use JS as a scripting language for a native app like Lua?↵And would it even be better than Lua? |
| 23:40:22 | FromDiscord | <leorize> you can, most JS engines are made to be embedded |
| 23:41:15 | FromDiscord | <System64 ~ Flandre Scarlet> In reply to @leorize "you can, most JS": And is it more performant than Lua? |
| 23:41:30 | FromDiscord | <leorize> it depends™ |
| 23:41:31 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @sys64 "About JS Is it": Yes possible (Duktape, and a few others), even better depends on what you're looking for |
| 23:42:11 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> If you really want performance time to use dynamic libraries 😄 |
| 23:42:35 | FromDiscord | <leorize> performance will almost always come from native code |
| 23:42:39 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @sys64 "And is it more": yeah what Leorize said, if you wanna embed V8, say goodbye to portability and small sizes, if you wanna embed something like Duktape, won't be as good as V8 but it probably won't be bad compared to Lua |
| 23:43:01 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Though the issue is with native code it's not portable and a security nightmare |
| 23:43:16 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Pledge on linux when? 😄 |
| 23:43:19 | FromDiscord | <leorize> native code here might just be syscalls \:p |
| 23:43:29 | FromDiscord | <leorize> I mean, call to application |
| 23:43:36 | FromDiscord | <System64 ~ Flandre Scarlet> In reply to @battery.acid.bubblegum "yeah what Leorize said,": It's for my modular synth↵I try to implement a module that you can script |
| 23:43:52 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> Doesn't it compile to WASM? Or is it all server side? |
| 23:44:04 | FromDiscord | <System64 ~ Flandre Scarlet> It's a native app |
| 23:44:09 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> Oh crap yeah |
| 23:44:43 | FromDiscord | <System64 ~ Flandre Scarlet> But Lua is probably more standard for scripting |
| 23:45:10 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> https://gist.github.com/guest271314/bd292fc33e1b30dede0643a283fadc6a I recommend taking a look |
| 23:46:00 | FromDiscord | <leorize> I don't think performance matters that much in this case |
| 23:46:01 | FromDiscord | <leorize> you want something people actually want to write code with |
| 23:46:11 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @sys64 "But Lua is probably": Probably due to the low barrier of entry for non-programmers in game dev (as an example), and easy to embed into an application |
| 23:46:13 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Just embed a scripting language and go to town, if you hit a performance issue see what's causing it then attempt to pivot |
| 23:46:25 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> Imo, Lua sucks compared to the beauty of Nim :P |
| 23:46:26 | FromDiscord | <leorize> lua is more popular thanks to it extremely simple design |
| 23:46:33 | FromDiscord | <leorize> JS is a very big language |
| 23:46:51 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> The slimmed down runtimes are generally fine I believe |
| 23:47:11 | FromDiscord | <leorize> I'm talking about features |
| 23:47:25 | FromDiscord | <leorize> the JS language itself is big |
| 23:47:32 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> Ah yeah that makes sense |
| 23:48:02 | FromDiscord | <leorize> meanwhile lua has like, 5 data types that's used for everything |
| 23:48:15 | FromDiscord | <System64 ~ Flandre Scarlet> In reply to @leorize "JS is a very": JS is GOOFY |
| 23:48:36 | FromDiscord | <System64 ~ Flandre Scarlet> And I've heard that Lua maps closely to C, hence the performances |
| 23:48:49 | FromDiscord | <leorize> not really |
| 23:49:02 | FromDiscord | <leorize> the reference interpreter is fast but not that fast |
| 23:49:18 | FromDiscord | <System64 ~ Flandre Scarlet> However LuaJIT is |
| 23:49:40 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Well JITs can be fast |
| 23:49:49 | FromDiscord | <leorize> lua power is mostly in `userdata` |
| 23:50:40 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> MicroPython baybeee: https://github.com/micropython/micropython/blob/master/examples/embedding/README.md |
| 23:50:41 | FromDiscord | <leorize> they have a basic primitive to hook in extra features from C side |
| 23:50:47 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> No |
| 23:50:58 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Bad robyn |
| 23:51:09 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> But whyyyy |
| 23:51:31 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Cause the amount of "I'm limited in space cause I used micropython to program an embedded device" is too much |
| 23:51:49 | FromDiscord | <leorize> micropython focus is to be used in MCUs |
| 23:51:50 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> It's also not fast |
| 23:52:00 | FromDiscord | <leorize> not to actually embed into a program as an interpreter |
| 23:52:14 | FromDiscord | <leorize> cpython is what you use if you want that |
| 23:52:26 | FromDiscord | <leorize> (and obviously, it's not fast) |
| 23:53:02 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Just ship nlvm and build wasm modules |
| 23:53:02 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> How hard could it be |
| 23:53:18 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> there are no windows builds of nlvm the last I checked |
| 23:53:41 | FromDiscord | <leorize> use wasm to run a mini Linux vm |
| 23:53:44 | FromDiscord | <leorize> then run nlvm on it |
| 23:53:45 | FromDiscord | <leorize> easy |
| 23:53:51 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Lol |
| 23:54:21 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Multiple layers of VMs really gets the performance flowing |
| 23:54:55 | FromDiscord | <leorize> you're just paying upfront with compile time |
| 23:58:10 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @Elegantbeef "Cause the amount of": well this isn't an embedded device, is it? :P |
| 23:58:30 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Blocked |