<< 08-09-2013 >>
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07:07:16Araqltbarcly: can you please fix your connection?
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08:49:22MFlamerDoes anyone know where the seq type is defined?
08:49:38Araqsystem.nim
08:56:44MFlamerThanks Araq
08:58:25Araqdo not thank me, it won't help you ;-)
09:12:50MFlamerAraq: In your opinion is seq a suitable type to wrap in an object to create on the shared heap as a hash table, or would you suggest rolling a new tyep?
09:14:04MFlamerI'm just wondering about any tricky re-sizing processes that are going to go along with the table
09:15:45Araqyou cannot allocate a 'seq' on the shared heap
09:16:16MFlamerI'm thinking seq will work well, similarly to your Hash Table design
09:16:32Araqyou have to roll your own 'sharedSeq' unfortunately
09:16:39MFlamerI was going to cast
09:17:00Araqthat won't work
09:17:20Araqthe codegen emits calls to the write barrier etc.
09:17:30Araqthe write barrier assumes a thread local GC
09:17:43Araq'cast' will only make it compile ;-)
09:18:12MFlamerOK, that settles it, sharedSeq it is.
09:20:07MFlamerThe concurrent resize is totally custom anyway, it's actually done by multiple threads atomically as they read and write to the lockfree table. I'm still a little gray on that part, but it'll come
09:20:36Araqyup
09:21:13MFlamerBut sounds like a project to start after some sleep....im in CA and it's late
09:24:09Araqalright good night then
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10:58:39dom96Araq: I was thinking: maybe we should make repr print out the result immediately? So that even if it crashes when it gets to some field that it at least manages to give some information, including the field that it crashes on.
11:13:26dom96zahary_: ping
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13:32:11Araqdom96: we can't to that, repr returns a string and has no side effects; we can have an echoRepr though
13:32:40Araqor we use a TR macro to change the semantics of 'echo repr' ... :P
13:32:52Trixar_zaYou guys know Linux, so which Kernel version should I use? I have up to 3.11.x here
13:33:35Araqchances are the latest Linux kernel fixes the most security issues
13:33:55Araqnew code could also introduce new bugs of course ...
13:35:24Trixar_zaGood point - I'll go with the latest for everything
13:35:50Trixar_zaNot git snapshots though
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14:32:33io2hi guys, can you please explain why there are no readily accessible variadics in generics?
14:34:39Araqnot sure what you mean, but we have 'varargs[string, `$`]'
14:34:55Araqand 'varargs' as a pragma for C interop
14:36:55io2and how does one get a list of the types of those arguments?
14:40:04Araqwell obviously you know the type of varargs[T]. The arguments are all of the same type
14:40:39AraqI guess you're talking about perfect function forwarding where varargs of different types make sense.
14:40:47io2:)
14:40:53io2exactly that
14:41:10Araqwell the explanation is: nobody implemented it yet
14:41:14io2I am still learning the language, so I could be overlooking something simple
14:41:16io2aha
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14:41:43Araqactors.nim suffers from the lack of this feature, so yeah I am aware and it will be provided
14:41:44io2thanks, so I was not missing something after all
14:42:04io2no worries, thanks very much for the cool language :)
14:45:29AraqI often think we are missing some meta type system feature which would puts an end to the endless amount of features we seem to need ...
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14:47:14EXetoCAraq: as in variadic type parameters, or will varargs be used for that too?
14:47:40EXetoCThe former being a list of type parameters that you can iterate through; sort of like in D and C++11
14:48:05Araqwell we have 'varargs[expr]' already which supports a variable number of arbitrary types
14:48:07io2i wonder if there is a bug tracker issue for this
14:49:10Araqbut we need proper pack&unpack features
14:50:12io2would it make sense for you to have packing and unpacking semantics in the way C++11 does it
14:50:18io2with an operator for example
14:50:53io2and, how would you think that you should be dealing with defaults given to those "type parameters"
14:52:47AraqI don't know yet :P
14:53:19Araqwe need f(unpack(tup)) that does f(tup[0], tup[1], ...) for a start
14:54:14io2f(tup...) would seem shorter, but then again :P
14:54:37Araq'...' would be a postfix operator which nimrod doesn't support
14:54:58io2that's why "then again"
14:55:16Araqand I prefer builtins over operators so that enough operators are available for ordinary code
14:55:44io2which means that you should have a pair of them for packing and unpacking
14:56:22Araqalso you can google for "nimrod unpack" and get some information. Try to do that for "nimrod ..." :P
14:57:47io2he he
14:59:16io2if pack and unpack were there, I have a feeling that everything else could be easily implemented through nimrod's macro system
15:00:17io2meaning picking an arbitrary type out of a "list" of types, etc
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15:01:10io2defaults now, that would be another thing that it should be solved together with this I think.
15:01:36io2if no types are in use, how do you handle / specify that for example
15:04:07Araqproc pack(args: varargs[expr]): tuple
15:04:38Araqproc unpack[T: tuple; S](args: T): S
15:05:30Araqbut it looks much easier to support call(f, tup) than f(unpack(tup))
15:06:30io2too many (( )) make the lisp fanboi in me go eeek
15:06:32io2:)
15:07:24Araqthis solves your question about defaults btw
15:07:39AraqnamedCall(f, tup) # would produce
15:08:00Araqf(nameA = tup[0], nameB = tup[1])
15:08:21Araq--> f can have lots of default parameters too, it's still callable
15:08:42Araq'nameA' and 'nameB' here are the tuple's field names
15:09:40Araqso we need pack, call and namedCall. All very simple to implement :D
15:11:13Araqall implementable by macros once the type API arrives
15:11:58io2so, namedCall would be an access builtin
15:12:13Araqit can easily be a macro
15:12:18io2as well
15:12:24io2the macro system is very versatile here
15:13:48io2but namedCall does not provide list - like access, it seems to be an all or nothing thing
15:14:31io2I would for example, see the utility in accessing the type "list" in a head and tail manner, making it possible to "push" or "pop" types
15:15:33io2so I think it could be better if you had a head / tail kind of access for the unpacking, with a macro doing the full unpacking when the user requires it
15:15:55io2it is recursive after all
15:19:06io2to think about it, yeah this is most likely something that would benefit from range access semantics.
15:23:49AraqI dunno, you claim it's a list and is recursive
15:24:04AraqI don't think of lists this way
15:25:05Araqthere is no recursion in [1, 2, 3, ...]; the recursion is a hack to patch over the lack of iteration :P
15:28:50io2either way, you have to deal with this
15:29:02io2either using list - like or array - like access
15:29:42Araq*shrug* how do you think the "call" macro will work?
15:30:14Araqit certainly needs to access the i'th component of the tuple type
15:30:28io2then you want random access as a given
15:30:54Araqyeah that's the Nimrod way
15:31:11io2if you want to have that, then it seems logical to have a random access builtin doing that I believe
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15:31:35Araqas I said, it's part of the type API
15:31:56Araqhowever I'm curious what other use cases you have in mind for this feature
15:32:30io2pretty much boost::mpl like ones
15:32:39Araq(the ones I have in mind are all easily doable with pack, call, namedCall)
15:33:24io2yeah but you are always unpacking everything, one cannot pick what one wants I mean
15:34:28Araqto unpack concrete components you need to know more details about the tuple
15:34:47Araqwhich means you do not do function forwarding anymore
15:35:03io2it is not just for function forwarding right now
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15:40:20io2the only thing you would really need to know about that tuple would be the number of type parameters it contains so as you do not go overboard imvho
15:40:59io2with a get(), pop(), isempty() and recursion you solve that in one way (but not the nimrod way)
15:41:14io2with an at() and size() you solve it in the nimrod way
15:41:36Araqmake that '[]' and 'len' ;-)
15:41:58io2heh, yeah
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15:43:03io2I would like to be able to do type calculations compile time with nimrod's features, type calculations in the sense C++ does with eerily simple things like boost::mpl
15:43:39io2unless I have some sort of way of accessing the type parameter tuples in an item by item way, I cannot see how that is doable right now.
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15:47:13io2anyway, for the time being all of this is theoretical; once variadics are available in nimrod's generics it will be fun to see how this is going to go, no rush.
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15:48:14Araqno it looks like ~20 lines to add to the compiler :P
15:48:38io2I am a rookie in your code, so I cannot yelp, yet.
15:49:07io2If i knew were to look exactly, I would go for it, but for the time being I am just dealing with the language itself :)
15:49:22Araqno worries, somebody will do it
15:49:32io2so far, it is a very fun language
15:49:51io2very very fun to code stuff in it
15:50:12Araqthanks :-)
15:51:46AraqI would tell you how to implement it but then I need to port yet another feature over to my new VM
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15:52:16Araqso I prefer switching to the new VM first
15:52:31io2no worries, plus weekend is nearly over and I need to do stuff for work, thank you very much for giving some time in discussing it with me.
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16:08:17Hannibal_SmithThe lack of documentation can be very bad
16:08:24Hannibal_SmithError: cannot instantiate: 'TData' <-What does it means?
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16:26:57Araqit means the compiler cannot instantiate TData :P
16:27:19Araqwhich happens when it can't determine what TData should be in a concrete context
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16:28:04Araqwhich often means you forgot to add brackets [] somewhere
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16:28:49Hannibal_SmithOk
16:29:48Hannibal_SmithUnfortunately, is not easy to understand where
16:30:18EXetoCfeel free to report it on github
16:31:34Hannibal_Smithhttp://ideone.com/o7aWq3
16:31:52Hannibal_Smithtree.nim(19, 22) Error: cannot instantiate: 'TData'
16:31:58Hannibal_Smithtree.nim(59, 43) Info: instantiation from here
16:32:06Hannibal_Smithtree.nim(71, 3) Info: instantiation from here
16:32:18Hannibal_SmithBut I view TData as "defined"
16:35:02Hannibal_Smithvar old_element = newElement[TKey, TData](tmp_element)
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16:35:06Hannibal_Smithtmp_element is a pointer
16:35:30Hannibal_SmithI also did with: var old_element = newElement[TKey, TData](tmp_element[])
16:35:36Araqyou need to pass tmp_element[] I think
16:35:45Araqoh?
16:36:13Hannibal_SmithUnfortunately no result
16:36:38Hannibal_SmithI get the exactly same error
16:37:15Hannibal_SmithThe newElement "copy constructor" that a PElement
16:37:36Hannibal_Smith*take a PElement
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16:38:04Hannibal_SmithOne moment
16:38:11Hannibal_Smith var old_element = newElement[TKey, TData](tmp_element[])
16:38:23Hannibal_SmithCalls
16:38:24Hannibal_Smithproc newElement[TKey, TData](key: TKey, left: PElement[TKey, TData] = nil, right: PElement[TKey, TData] = nil) : PElement[TKey, TData] =
16:38:24Hannibal_Smith PElement[TKey, TData](kind: ElementKind.inner, key: key, left: left, right: right)
16:38:25Hannibal_Smith?
16:39:16Hannibal_SmithI'm a little lost
16:39:51Araqfrom what I can tell it looks indeed like a compiler bug
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16:45:44Hannibal_SmithAnother question...
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16:45:49Hannibal_Smithy is a ref object
16:45:58Hannibal_Smithvar x is a pointer
16:46:01Hannibal_SmithIf a do
16:46:06Hannibal_Smithx = y
16:46:11Hannibal_SmithWhat is copied?
16:46:50Hannibal_SmithType error?
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16:48:39Araqwhy don't you try it?
16:48:58Hannibal_SmithYou are right
16:49:56AraqI think the compiler tries to match 'newElement'
16:50:15Araqand fails in a stupid way for the newElement in line 19
16:50:29Araqbefore it can figure out it's line 12 you want to call here
16:51:06Araqtry it without the overloading of 'newElement' and see what happens
16:51:32Araq(getting rid of the overloading means to come up with unique names for the procs)
16:52:48Hannibal_SmithYes, is as you said
16:59:33Hannibal_SmithFinally it compile
16:59:51Hannibal_SmithNow I have to write some unit test, and the delete proc
17:01:00Araqplease submit a bug report anyway
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17:07:30Hannibal_Smithhttps://github.com/Araq/Nimrod/issues/592
17:12:23Hannibal_SmithThe unit test module looks good
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17:45:40Hannibal_SmithThe unit testing module is broken on the last git version?
17:47:14Hannibal_SmithAraq-Nimrod-84c89b9/lib/pure/unittest.nim(102, 2) Error: undeclared identifier: 'TestStatusIMPL'
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17:50:55AraqI think you're using it wrong
17:51:19AraqTestStatusIMPL is defined in template 'test'
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17:51:34Hannibal_Smithhttps://github.com/Araq/Nimrod/blob/master/tests/run/uclosures.nim
17:51:50Hannibal_SmithI saw this example
17:52:00Araqyeah, that uses 'test'
17:52:33Hannibal_Smithhttp://ideone.com/zIsdNK
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17:55:30Hannibal_SmithUhm...I did find the problem
17:55:38Hannibal_SmithYes I did something wrong
17:55:59Hannibal_SmithI leaved some code "as an entry point" in the tree.nim
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18:01:49Hannibal_SmithNo...now I have same problem
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