<< 08-10-2015 >>

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00:37:56tmm1it seems the tester output is being buffered
00:38:02tmm1instead of being flushed at newlines
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02:10:14tmm1https://ci.appveyor.com/project/Araq/nim/build/1.0.29/tests
02:10:17tmm1got duration in there
02:11:06tmm1Araq: any idea what this one is about https://ci.appveyor.com/project/Araq/nim/build/1.0.29#L2657
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03:17:34Varriounttmm1: What platforms does appveyor support?
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04:38:38tmm1only windows i think
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04:43:07tmm1travis supports linux and mac
04:43:13tmm1circleci does linux and maybe mac too
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06:18:17sigipaHello All, I'm trying to use c2nim on several c header files, but I'm getting some rather strange errors regarding unexpected new lines and identifier expected on c comments. I'm not sure how to tweak the c code to fix these issues. Any advice would be much appreciated.
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06:46:55Araqsigipa: remove the comments or try --skipcomments
06:48:50sigipaOk. Thanks.
06:49:24Araqc2nim wants to translate comments too and so it's picky about them ... ;-)
06:50:57sigipaI'm trying to create a wrapper for civetweb. It's a little c http server. I'm doing this, because I need ssl support. Is there any plan to add ssl support to the nim http server?
06:51:46Araqthe async http server supports SSL when you compile with -d:ssl
06:52:34Araqthe non-async http server is a toy example at this point.
06:54:23sigipaOh! I missed that somehow. That's great man! BTW: I can't thank you enough for your hard work on nim. I'm loving it! The very first viable c++ replacement IMHO.
06:56:55Araqthanks, always nice to hear. :-)
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06:58:07Araqdo you happen to know good software for recording a video? I need both capturing my camera and my desktop
06:58:38Araq(well that's a question for everybody in #nim of course.)
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08:53:38AraqOnO: er ... why is parseopt in lib/deprecated?
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11:49:31softinio@Araq do you use a mac?
11:49:54Araqnot if I can avoid it
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11:51:38softinioWhat do use day to day then?
11:52:23Araqwindows.
11:52:52Araqmostly because it's not unix based and I despise unix.
11:54:30softinioshame as https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/screenflow-5/id917790450?mt=12 is a great app for what u r after. WE have opposing views on unix vs windows :)
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11:57:09Araqthat's fine. I noticed I'm the only guy left who actually understands how crackbrained Unix really is.
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12:29:30federico3correct
12:31:31softinio@Araq with nim it seems if I import a lib I don't have to use its name to call any of its proc's. Is it good practice to use the name when calling the proc for readability?
12:34:07Araqit is not a good practice to have no good tooling.
12:35:27Araqand if determining where a identifier comes from is not a single keypress, you don't have good tooling.
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12:36:31AraqI'm aware that we currently all have pretty bad tooling for Nim, but this doesn't change what I consider good practice.
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12:43:25softinioso I am using os.walkDir to get a list of files in a directory. How do I distinguish the system files like '.' or '..' in unix to skip them? I was hoping the kind being pcFile is all I had to look for but they are still coming up. Thanks
12:45:46Araqsoftinio: it simply doesn't yield '.' or '..'
12:46:27Araqos.nim gives you a sensible interface over the unix junk.
12:49:57Araqwell it shouldn't yield them. look at line 859 in os.nim
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12:50:35softinio@Araq it is giving me PWD _ and SHLVL as files when I use walkDir and I doing something wrong ?
12:52:01Araqno idea what PWD _ and SHLVL is.
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13:00:15softinio@Araq ignore above question my env had issues :-)
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13:18:07Araqof course it has. it's unix based. :P (sorry, couldn't resist)
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13:34:12r-kuAraq im curious: what main OS do you use for your main workstation?
13:34:28Araqcheck the logs
13:34:53r-kusad part is that answer most likely would have been shorter than "check the logs" :|
13:35:10r-kuheh i see
13:40:28Sahnvourit'd be interesting that you write a rant against what you dislike in unix, if you haven't already
13:41:25r-kuregarding crackbrained unix: recently i asked on reddit what is the practical usecase for case-sensitive filesystems. answer i got was "dont be lazy and write exactly what you mean". thats it. sometimes shit in unix doesnt make sense..
13:44:21AraqSahnvour: yeah I should do it. I'm keeping a list in my head since it comes up so often ...
13:48:39elroodr-ku, actually sometimes shit in unix does make sense, just the people who are advocating for it don't really. case-sensitivity from a technical standpoint makes sense for easier handling when you think about character encoding and how much trouble converting between upper and lower case is once you venture into unicode territory and non-latin languages. from a user standpoint it just gives more control
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13:55:07Araqelrood: unicode arrived and converting A-Z to a-z is as simple as it always was.
13:55:38Araqjust because it's hard to solve it 100% doesn't mean you should go with 0% solution.
13:55:46Araq*with the
13:56:23Araqby that logic you should never take a shower then because somewhere there will always be dirt on your body
13:58:23elroodthat's not really on point. as said, it starts making more sense once you think about languages that aren't rooted in ascii and the latin charset. it is also only really an issue if you grew up thinking that 97 and 65 should be equal
13:59:29elroodit is just the transition from case-insensitive systems with too much of a DOS heritage and compatibility complex that this even begins becoming a problem in the first place
14:00:11r-kuits a lazy point of view from the developer. computer is a tool for humans and humans dont have folders that differ by case so case insensitivity make sense here. in some languages it can be difficult sure. nothing that cant be solved though. or heck even having some charsets case-insensitivie would be good. since latin-based languages cover large part of the world it would be a huge win already supporting case-insensitivity just there
14:00:25Araqwhen I type printer<tab> and it doesn't find it because it's called PrinterSettings that surely is not my problem.
14:00:45r-kuAraq thats shell's problem actually. you would love zsh
14:00:54elroodyup
14:01:12r-kubut i totally agree that should be default behavior
14:01:52r-kutbh my biggest beef with unix is libc. more specifically lack of targetting lower api version
14:02:08r-kuwhich brings us to shit like chroots of entire distros just to build something that runs everywhere..
14:02:36r-kuwindows did right that one, you define WINVER=0x501 and boom shit runs on xp..
14:02:51r-kueven though system that builds code is say windows8
14:03:16elroodwell, opinions differ. case-insensitivity in one place because some people got used to it, prefer being a bit lazy and not caring about sideeffects just makes for general messiness for everybody else
14:04:42elroodbesides, even micro$oft and one point realized that a case-sensitive fs might not be that much of a bad idea and are slowly transitioning since.. fat32? ntfs? having it at least as an option
14:05:17Araqnot sure what you are talking about. the file system is case preserving since decades
14:05:26Araqbut that doesn't mean it's case sensitive
14:06:31Araqin fact, all the arguments for cs boil down to "case consistency" and "case preserving". nobody argues it's a good feature that readme and README are two distinct files
14:08:51elroodwell, as said, different opinions, and some might have a strong feeling that one is superiour in the long run for differnt reasons. but this isn't the place for flame-wars we can't solve anyway
14:09:42elroodjust saying that there might be reasons the unix way isn't just senselessly the way it is
14:10:42r-kuthere surely are reasons behind these decisions, i just think they are wrong reasons
14:11:01r-kuin case of case-insensitive fs usability was not main concern. it always should be though
14:11:06wuehlmausr-ku: mentioning zsh, you did it and i would have done it :) it helps that zsh can correct the case indeed
14:11:52Araqyou can configure bash to do it too. And I did.
14:12:07Araqbut it's not the default. In 2015.
14:12:19r-kuthat i didnt know. heck.. it totally should be default :|
14:12:52wuehlmausyes, that's something where unix can really get on ones nerves. all the good features are mostly put off.
14:14:49r-kulets bash windows a bit. 2015 and it still has no ram-based tmpfs-like thing. still writes temp files to disk. like wth..
14:15:21Araqalso when you consider that language is actually spoken too, not only written it's immediately obvious case sensitivity makes no sense whatsoever.
14:15:38Araq"open file readme ... no, not that one"
14:15:45Araq"README in all caps please!"
14:15:49wuehlmausbut i don't speak with my file system :)
14:16:11Sahnvourdon't blame windows, blame microsoft's organization
14:16:20AraqI sometimes give other people instructions what to do ...
14:16:39elroodAraq, https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/100625 if you're interested. ntfs isn't just case-preserving. just the first thing that popped up
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14:17:31Araq"As part of the requirements for POSIX compliance, ..."
14:17:59Araqso yes, posix is a standard we'll never recover from.
14:18:04r-kui bet installing that patch breaks LOTS of stuff
14:18:47Araqand so we'll never be truly productive.
14:19:11Araqcomputing is doomed as long as posix lives.
14:20:05elroodranting about it is the actual productivity-killer ;) it's quite usable once you accept the world spins the way it does
14:21:08Araqwe'll continue to think that 3 untyped streams of bytes plus an exit code byte are all there is to program communication.
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14:30:20Araqelrood: I have written enough Posix code to disagree with you. and the bad productivity is not a result of my ranting, my ranting is a result of the bad productivity.
14:32:06Araqlikewise I have read enough books about LaTeX and used it enough in practice to know I will never use it again.
14:38:16reactormonkIt's actually somewhat useable with org-mode on top.
14:41:20Araqreactormonk: I often wonder how many errors in science and math are due to LaTeX. because you have to work with glibberish rather than real formulas and only see the results after a compilation step.
14:43:11Araqusually the result of a compilation step is some assembler that you never need to look at. LaTeX is pretty unique in doing it the other way round.
14:45:05reactormonkAraq, I've found latex formulae to be a pretty good serialization of math.
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14:47:55Araqdunno, I've been spoiled by mathematica.
14:53:49reactormonkHm, I've never used it.
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15:05:28NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel 07eaafc JamesP [+0 ±1 -0]: added hash procs for handling portions of strings/arrays/seqs.... 6 more lines
15:05:28NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel fec0894 Dominik Picheta [+0 ±1 -0]: Merge pull request #3425 from jlp765/hashes1... 2 more lines
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15:39:35VarriountUgh. Window's 'cd' really needs to be fixed.
15:39:45VarriountI shouldn't have to use a flag to change drives.
15:48:04reactormonkVarriount, I still hate the idea of drive roots ;-)
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15:57:25Varriountreactormonk: It's easier if you think of a drive letter as a folder.
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16:07:33Varriountreactormonk: Did you know that Windows has a mechanism for mounting NTFS drives as folders?
16:12:18reactormonkVarriount, I do.
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16:16:42drewsremWhat alternative exists for Unix Domain Sockets on Windows?
16:16:51reactormonkdrewsrem, use case?
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16:19:27drewsremreactormonk, nothing currently on my end, just wondering whats used e.g. for communicating with a local postgres instance etc.
16:20:01drewsremMight try to write an abstraction later on
16:24:40drewsremSeems they just use TCP sockets...
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17:30:46tmm1good morning folks
17:35:09tmm1i could use some help fixing the remaining test suite failures on win32 if anyone is interested
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18:13:58Arrrrnativesockets doesn't work in win xp 32 bits
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20:40:55cncltrying out macros for the first time
20:42:02cnclis it possible to declare a constant using a macro? i'm trying it now and having problems. i must be doing it wrong
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21:01:28reactormonkcncl, dumpTree: const foo = "bar"
21:06:35cnclyeah :) i got it to work if i create the nodes manually
21:06:42cncli think i must be using 'quote' wrong
21:07:06cncli think i don't fully understand the semantic differences of expr and stmt during macro evaluation
21:07:14cncli will keep reading
21:09:30Jehan_cncl: if you use quote, you may need to also use {.inject.} to make symbols visible outside the macro.
21:10:13cnclah! that was it
21:10:17cnclthanks
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22:42:53Araqtmm1: I'm here now.
22:43:43Araqso ... we have a nice problem here.
22:44:12Araqdb_postgres.nim used to use ? for the substitution character just like the other db_* modules
22:44:48Araqand then some dude came along and it made it use prepared statements, not noticing that postgres uses $1 in its prepared statements.
22:45:44Araqand when we reviewed the PR it didn't occur to us somebody wouldn't notice *that* when creating a PR.
22:46:48Araqbut if the SQL uses a different substitution char, it's not compatible to the other db* modules nor with old code using ?
22:49:33Araqso ... no idea what to do. I think we'll revert it back anyway.
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23:11:18Araqhi saluberful welcome
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