<< 10-02-2021 >>
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00:38:30FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> @guzba what's with the 100 character filename limit in Zippy? šŸ˜„
00:39:46FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Is it a limtiation with tarballs and the header?
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02:09:25FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> Does anyone know the repository CPS shenanigans are taking place or has the idea of CPS stalled ?
02:12:19Prestige!repo cps
02:12:21Prestige:(
02:16:22FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> Prestige: yeah I know it was taking place in disruptek's repo but now that he is gone I'm afraid that the development of cps will stall
02:19:37FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> it's such a great concept too I was pretty skeptical/didn't understand its advantages till I went through and read a paper on it lol
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02:21:21FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Well time to go fork CPS and start working on it šŸ˜„
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02:22:47FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> @ElegantBeef thanks for volunteering šŸ˜‰
02:23:04FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Wait... shit
02:23:11FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> You read the white pages
02:23:51FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> I'll be your motivator
02:23:58FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> emotional support for when it makes you cry
02:26:08PrestigeDid he also stop working on/with Nim since he was banned from chat?
02:27:45FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> Yeah
02:27:53Prestigedammit..
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02:59:04FromDiscord<JSGRANT> In reply to @Scarecrow "is there some lib": Gintro seems pretty mature; Plan to mess with it when my Pinephone finally ships (by the end of the month).
03:04:56FromDiscord<guzba> @ElegantBeef the basic filename field is limited to 100 characters, however there is a field for a prefix for longer filenames so in reality it should just work. i just kept it simple for a first version and did the basic filename only. if you create an issue it'll remind me to add that support next time i work on zippy stuff
03:05:17FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Will make an issue, just hit the issue with mac builds šŸ˜„
03:05:38FromDiscord<guzba> kk sorry for issue but happy to hear its being used and otherwise working, thats nice
03:06:12FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> It's fine not like i'm being paid to make it šŸ˜„
03:09:55FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Disclaimer: The above isnt sarcasm, i'm not being paid
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03:11:19leorize@Avatarfighter mratsim said he will continue the work
03:12:33leorizePrestige: he's in #disruptek if you still wanna chat with him :)
03:13:10Prestigethanks!
03:13:13FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> What repo leorize ?
03:13:30leorizeprobably still in disruptek's repo
03:13:34FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> lit
03:13:35leorizemratsim has commit access there iirc
03:13:35FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> thanks
03:13:40FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> Ok thats good
03:14:19FromDiscord<flywind> https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/16992
03:15:18FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Am i the only one that prefers `a..(-3)`?
03:15:27leorizeI always use a space :P
03:16:09leorizewhy are we keep adding arbitrary stuff into nep1? :P
03:16:18FromDiscord<flywind> I think using a space is less error prone too.
03:16:52FromDiscord<flywind> maybe should add that to contributing guide
03:17:17FromDiscord<flywind> But we should figure out which one is preferred.
03:18:04FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I'm all about consistancy so i prefer not having spaces just cause operations are being done šŸ˜„
03:18:39leorizeconsistency and nim, pick one
03:26:23FromDiscord<konsumlamm> oof
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05:05:11PrestigeI prefer a space there as well
05:05:50FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> And i prefer spacing you so look where we're at now
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05:06:49PrestigeWe've grown so far apart beef
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05:08:36FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> You deserve better
05:08:53FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Someone that respects you for your empirically wrong opinions
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05:10:48PrestigeYou're such a romantic
05:11:05FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I'm not roman but i do have a tick
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05:12:35PrestigeWhat are you working on these days?
05:13:06FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Putting off working on linerino, and trying to get my unity build system fully functional
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05:14:58PrestigeLooking forward to hearing about it more
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05:15:16FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> About what more?
05:17:10PrestigeYour game
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05:25:59FromDiscord<mattrb> Any thoughts for how I could get compilation time down on this? Currently sitting at 25s on my machine https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OUy
05:29:43FromDiscord<Rika> use less templates/macros xd but no i dont think you can otherwise
05:33:14saemWhich version of the compiler?
05:33:35saemEasy win could come from using a nightly in case there are optimizations hanging around.
05:38:41FromDiscord<mattrb> In reply to @saem "Which version of the": Currently on 1.4.0
05:39:18FromDiscord<mattrb> Do you know that there are optimizations, or are you just saying that there might be on the nightlies?
05:39:30saemIt's a guess
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05:46:22FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> no harm in `choosenim update devel` followed by `choosenim devel`:D
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06:06:12FromDiscord<mattrb> Only did one attempt on devel, but that resulted in 27s :p
06:07:56FromDiscord<Rika> get a better machine xd
06:07:57leorizethat's a lot of templates
06:08:01FromDiscord<Rika> (im joking)
06:09:56leorize@mattrb any reason why you're using staticFor?
06:11:23FromDiscord<mattrb> I wanted to build this LUT at compile-time so that each of the procs could be optimized. I was struggling to find a way to do that, and this was the approach that mratsim@ suggested. Otherwise the compiler complained that the values weren't available at compile-time
06:12:43leorizeshouldn't a normal for-loop work?
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06:13:30FromDiscord<Rika> didnt he just say it didnt work
06:14:06leorizemy point is that it should :/
06:14:24leorizebut if mratsim told you to do so he probably filed a bug somewhere
06:15:39leorizethe amount of template instantiations here are exponential
06:16:38FromDiscord<mattrb> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OUM
06:19:16leorizeI'm afraid there's no better way to clean it unless you managed to reduce the amount of templates
06:21:09FromDiscord<mattrb> At the end of the day, I'd like that array to have ~4096 unique procs all at compile-time so that I don't need to parse as much of the instruction at runtime. Do you happen to know of another way to do that? I used templates because it seems to accomplish what I want, but I definitely don't know if it's the best way to do that in Nim
06:21:37FromDiscord<Rika> you want less runtime cost, you pay for it in compiletime cost
06:23:11FromDiscord<mattrb> Yeah as always, but 25s at compile-time seems a little extreme considering it's only generating <4096 procs that effectively do nothing. I figured there was something I was doing that was making that worse
06:23:39FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> You could always try tcc for your debug builds and gcc for release
06:23:42FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Actually nvm
06:23:44FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I'm dumb
06:24:18FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @mattrb "Yeah as always, but": i thought it was impressive
06:24:19leorize[m]does your template ever create two procs that are the same?
06:24:36FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Though compared to vlang's demo test, it actually did turn it from a slow project that wasnt really compileble to something very compilable
06:25:07FromDiscord<mattrb> Yeah it's going to be a decent amount smaller than 4096. There will be duplicates
06:25:27leorize[m]then maybe static generics would help
06:25:41leorize[m]since the compiler would remember every instantiation
06:26:07leorize[m]make the proc themselves generic, not the template :p
06:26:24FromDiscord<mattrb> Do you mind giving me a little demo of that or linking me to some documentation?
06:26:49FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Speaking of generics Pmunch's generics from his fosdem talk was very cool passing in a w/h but never actually storing them anywhere to differentiate types
06:32:00FromDiscord<mattrb> This is what you're referring to? https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#special-types-static-t
06:32:57leorizeyea, but you can use them as generic parameters too, like: `[Pre, Add: static bool]`
06:39:14leorizeI tried https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OUP
06:39:20leorizestill takes a very long time though
06:39:57leorizeI suppose this form of looping is just slow
06:40:17FromDiscord<Rika> well its unrolling
06:40:23leorizeIC would help once 1.6 is released
06:40:50FromDiscord<mattrb> In reply to @leorize "I tried https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OUP": Hey well if nothing else, it _looks_ nicer imo
06:41:49FromDiscord<mattrb> Is there somewhere I can see a nim roadmap?
06:42:07leorizeask @Araq
06:42:21FromDiscord<mattrb> Or more specifically for this case, is IC a feature that's expected in 1.6, and is there any sort of rough eta for that?
06:42:27leorizeI think there might be a way out for you
06:42:31leorizeIC is expected in 1.6
06:42:51FromDiscord<mattrb> I was looking around for nim ic earlier, but I just found a bunch of old github issues that are still open because ic is challenging :p
06:44:39leorizeif you build the array manually via a macro it might be faster
06:44:56leorizebut the syntax is not as friendly...
06:45:40leorize@mattrb afaik Araq said IC will be the feature of 1.6. From there on it'll be bugfixes
06:46:01FromDiscord<mattrb> What would that look like? Do you mind making an example for one of the instructions and I'll decide if it's worth it to copy across to all of them? šŸ˜¬
06:46:43FromDiscord<mattrb> Awesome. I'm still pretty new to the Nim world. Is there a rough eta for 1.6 considering we're on 1.4.2 right now, or is that in the distant future?
06:47:05leorize1.6 is the next minor release
06:47:51leorize1.x where x is odd then it's a development version, where x is even then it's a stable release
06:50:31FromDiscord<mattrb> Ah gotcha, thanks. Looks like about a 6 month cycle for each of the last 2 stable minor releases, so maybe another couple months on 1.6 if that can reasonably be extrapolated
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06:59:36leorize@mattrb here you go: https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OUU
07:00:02leorize1.743s on the playground
07:00:22leorizethe syntax is horrible and there are probably ways to make it prettier
07:00:25leorizebut I gtg now
07:00:28leorizehave fun
07:00:37FromDiscord<mattrb> Tyvm šŸ™‚
07:05:12FromDiscord<mattrb> sent a long message, see https://paste.rs/QAv
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07:54:50saem@Araq: read over the nkError outline, I'm wondering would it be beneficial to have nkError node either be mostly an ID into a table that stores the rest of the data or have an index of the error nodes? My tired brain is thinking that it might simplify things wherein a pass can fill up errors and then at the end of process module or something we just output the ones it's accumulated thus far. The other thought was for
07:54:50saempropagating errors up, reduction/inheritance, but I think that's mostly from not seeing enough error cascade prevention examples.
07:56:10ForumUpdaterBotNew thread by Miran: Nim 1.2.10 RC and 1.4.4 RC, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/7494
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08:03:18FromGitter<Araq> saem: the idea of nkError is to make the error handling simpler
08:04:00FromGitter<Araq> and it already improved some of the compiler's error messages, so that works ok
08:04:21PMunchHmm, for C data structures that I have defined in Nim I should use importc right? And that will make sure that the fields have the same alignment and sizes?
08:06:11FromGitter<Araq> yes, in general.
08:06:56PMunchIn general?
08:07:35PMunchWith that I can skip fields as well right?
08:07:41PMunchLike not including them at all
08:07:53FromGitter<Araq> there are two ways: one is to 'importc' from a header file, the other is get the layout right yourself, don't use the header and wrap the binary DLL instead
08:08:02PMunchCurrently I have a bunch of pointers to structs I don't care about just stored as "pointer"
08:08:28FromGitter<Araq> if you import from a header file there is little that can go wrong as Nim produces an `#include header` and not much else
08:08:39PMunchWell I have to use the headers because I'm compiling a DLL for another program
08:09:16PMunchBut I've been going with the "declare all the fields myself and make sure the layout is right"
08:09:21PMunchWhich is quite tricky
08:09:45PMunchHas been causing some issues..
08:10:15FromGitter<Araq> if you don't access the fields you only have to get sizeof and alignment right
08:10:19FromGitter<gogolxdong> Anyone met errors `C:\Users\asus\nimcache\manual_experimental_d\manual_experimental\manual_experimental_snippet_102.nim(21, 1) Error: attempting to call undeclared routine: 'match'` when using ./koch doc to generate docs.
08:10:34PMunchIt's still a bit annoying that there is no dead simple way to convert a lot of C code into wrappers that is robust enough to work well for real projects
08:11:07FromGitter<Araq> well but there is
08:11:11FromGitter<Araq> use `.header`
08:11:27FromGitter<Araq> I don't like it but it surely is simple to use
08:11:37FromGitter<Araq> and there is little that can go wrong
08:11:41PMunch@Araq, "only" :P Between versions they added a field in the middle of a struct. Which just caused my program to silently fail until I figured out that my alignment was off
08:11:47PMunch.header?
08:12:16FromGitter<Araq> type Foo {.header: "foo.h".} = object ## you don't need to declare fields here at all
08:12:24PMunchI meant converting a bunch of C header files into objects/procs with importc. Similar to what c2nim does, but that handles macros and all the oddities of C a bit better
08:12:35PMunchAh well, I need to access the fields
08:12:35FromGitter<Araq> @gogolxdong I think that's a tiny regression
08:12:53PMunchAnd for this project for example I didn't even know where to find the fields
08:13:06FromGitter<haxscramper> @gogolxdong my guess is that it is related to recent renaming of `match` macro to ` `case` `
08:13:07FromGitter<Araq> `.header` does support fields
08:13:20FromGitter<Araq> if you need them, add them to your declaration
08:13:35PMunchSo it would've been helpful to have generated Nim structs I could walk through. Instead of having to navigate through the C sources and porting all the structs I needed over
08:13:57PMunchYeah that would definitely have been better than my complete approach
08:14:13FromGitter<gogolxdong> maybe, it's been a while.
08:14:19PMunchBut it would still be nice to have the full structs defined so I could go looking for the interesting parts without leaving Nim code
08:15:38PMunchThe perfect workflow would be something like clone C project -> run magic program -> have complete Nim wrapper that I can look through and use in my code
08:15:51PMunchWith little to no human interaction
08:17:00PMunchBut that might require interaction with things like ./configure or CMake to make sure that all the defines are correct
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08:27:54FromGitter<gogolxdong> That's what have been trying for the past serveral months.
08:34:38FromGitter<gogolxdong> I was trying to convert FFmpeg to Nim
08:37:14PMunchYeah it's pretty hard to wrap big C things..
08:37:32PMunchBut the complexity of parsing C files is huge unfortunately
08:38:06PMunchI wish there was a way to just ask GCC for the information we need. I mean it must know what symbols exists and what their signatures are at some point, right?
08:39:26PMunchHey @Araq, with --gc:arc/orc what is the story with nimrtl for DLLs?
08:42:28FromGitter<gogolxdong> I used nimterop as a start point.
08:49:19krux02PMunch, I think you can do that with clang
08:49:55krux02clang has a pluginapi to extend the language with some features. As fas as I know with full access to the AST.
08:50:35krux02So maybe you can write a clang plugin that compiles C to Nim.
08:57:13PMunchOooh, that would be amazing
08:57:29FromGitter<gogolxdong> https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OVj @PMunch that's what I got.
09:00:08PMunch@gogolxdong, what's that?
09:04:09FromGitter<gogolxdong> It finds all references the example fflay.c of FFmpeg uses , and put them in a single file in topo sort ,then compile to Nim with treesitter part of nimterop.
09:05:19PMunchWell this looks interesting: https://github.com/hlandau/compex
09:10:09PMunchFairly small project, should be easy enough to modify it to just output all types and include some type information
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09:14:47FromGitter<gogolxdong> but alose have to translate functions one by one with c2nim, because it's very likely that c2nim doesn't compile such a big single C file to Nim all at once.
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09:19:23haxscramperI haven't used libclang for actually *rewriting* C code to nim, but I think you can get fully semchecked AST
09:20:12haxscramperThough `libclang` is better suited for writing wrapper generators than full code analysis, so I'm not sure if it has all the necessary information
09:20:31Yardanicoyeah, for example Zig uses libclang to translate C code into Zig
09:20:39Yardanicoalthough Zig is arguably closer to C than Nim
09:20:55haxscramperIn general I see almost to reason to convert C code to nim
09:21:05haxscramperFor it to be compiled back to C again
09:21:22haxscrampers/to reason/no reason/g
09:21:32Yardanicoyeah, you're right
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09:54:10PMunchYeah I don't want to convert C to Nim
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09:54:24PMunchI just want to extract the type information and procedure signatures
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10:41:57Oddmongerdo you know a software which can define graphically trees relations, with an output format which could be used by num data types ?
10:47:41FromDiscord<no name fits> R?
10:48:23Oddmongerhum maybe
10:48:26FromDiscord<no name fits> Scratch that, I have no idea
10:48:48FromDiscord<no name fits> I actually have no idea if R supports relational stuff
10:49:58haxscramperOddmonger: are you looking for a graph/tree drawing software (I'm just not sure if I understand the question correctly)
10:50:02FromDiscord<no name fits> It does seem to support the notion of objects though
10:50:37Oddmongerhaxscramper: teh use case would be to describe relations in a crafting system of a game
10:50:37FromDiscord<no name fits> https://rdrr.io/cran/ape/man/write.tree.html
10:51:56Oddmongermay be this one: http://strlen.com/treesheets/
10:51:59FromDiscord<no name fits> I mean you could probably write your own in Nim
10:52:20haxscramperSo you have a graph of crafting recipes, and want to show relationship tree for them? graphviz can used as a library for graph layout, there is also an `ogdf`
10:52:47haxscramperGraphviz solves graph layout for you, but drawing can be done in any way
10:52:51Oddmongeryes i could check the output with graphviz
11:04:43Yardanicoall pkgs that directly and indirectly depend on cligen
11:04:44Yardanicohttps://svgshare.com/s/TtP
11:06:38haxscramperI realized that if I put haxdoc on nimble now we would get max dependency depth of 8
11:06:40PMunchHmm, TreeSheets looks interesting
11:06:44PMunchJust as a program in general
11:07:58haxscramperYardanico: how many packages depend on `nimble` or `compiler`?
11:08:25Yardanicohttps://i.imgur.com/krdJUtc.png
11:08:41Yardanicohttps://i.imgur.com/1vOUYrR.png
11:09:07haxscramperhuh, that is surprising
11:09:20haxscramperI mean that I'm basically one of two people who depends on `compiler`
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11:50:20haxscramperHow I can determine if error passed to `structuredErrorHook` is a fatal one, or result of `compiles()` check? Severity of the error does seem to be particularly useful because I still have a lot of `Error`-level messages
12:00:51haxscramperI ended up just checking `config.errorCounter >= config.errorMax`
12:13:33Yardanicohaxscramper: one of the longest paths I found is
12:13:34Yardanicoweb3 -> jsonrpc -> chronicles -> jsonserialization -> serialization -> faststreams -> chronos -> bearssl
12:13:35Yardanicoi mean deps
12:14:05Yardanicobut it's conditional ofc
12:14:17Yardanicoor not
12:14:19haxscramperMaybe I'm missing some dependencies.
12:14:32Yardanicohmm seems to be correct
12:14:53Yardanicochronos depends on bearssl unconditionally
12:15:16Yardanicohaxscramper: do you correctly parse requires over multiple lines?
12:15:26Yardanicolike https://github.com/status-im/nim-faststreams/blob/master/faststreams.nimble#L10
12:15:49haxscramperYes, I use nim code parser
12:16:16haxscramperSo for `Call[_, all @args]` I should get all possible placements
12:16:23haxscramperhandled correctly
12:17:08haxscramperI refactored parser into reusable standalone proc - https://github.com/haxscramper/haxdoc/blob/master/src/haxdoc/compiler_aux.nim#L213 , but this is mostly edge case handling
12:17:14Yardanicohttps://i.imgur.com/Vku0VAY.png
12:18:02Yardanicohmm, how can I return the second longest result with cypher
12:18:17Yardanicoah "skip"
12:19:33Yardanicohttps://i.imgur.com/DmrUJmL.png another long path
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12:40:03FromDiscord<no name fits> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OWx
12:40:23Yardaniconot returning explicitly is fine
12:40:29Yardanicothat's what "result" is for
12:40:42Yardanicoyou can improve performance of your reverse proc by preallocating the result string though
12:40:45Yardanicosince you already know the length
12:41:01FromDiscord<no name fits> Oh so put a new string in result?
12:41:47Yardanicoyeah
12:41:55FromDiscord<Rika> result = newString(input.len) at the start or something
12:41:57Yardanicoas the first line in the proc result = newString(input.len)
12:42:05FromDiscord<Rika> and then you do result[i] = input[i]
12:42:07FromGitter<Araq> unicode.reverse ?
12:42:11FromDiscord<Rika> i mean no
12:42:19FromDiscord<Rika> result[input.len-i] i think
12:42:31FromDiscord<Rika> araq its as an exercise
12:42:53FromDiscord<no name fits> In reply to @Araq "unicode.reverse ?": Yeah I'm just trying to learn šŸ™‚
12:44:25FromDiscord<no name fits> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OWA
12:44:37FromDiscord<Rika> yeah
12:44:40FromDiscord<no name fits> my tests pass at least šŸ˜›
12:44:46FromDiscord<no name fits> Alright, thanks a lot
12:44:48FromDiscord<Rika> should be somewhat faster that way
12:45:02FromGitter<haxscramper> @Araq I need to get semchecked AST, but *before* any implicit transformations - just resolved as many symbols as possible. If I write pre-semcheck pass, it would only operate on untyped AST, and post-chemcheck would only get fully expanded AST. Ideally I would like to have some kind of 'around secmcheck' pass so I would get new node, resolve it, then run semcheck. I need this to correctly index uses of
12:45:02FromGitter... templates/macros etc.
12:45:14FromGitter<haxscramper> Do you have any recommendations on how to do this?
12:45:14FromDiscord<no name fits> I saw there was a benchmark lib. is there a tutorial to get started with that?
12:47:13FromGitter<haxscramper> So for example if I have āŽ āŽ ```proc main() = āŽ template test(): untyped = discard āŽ test()``` āŽ āŽ I need to process all nodes in `main()` step-by-step, logging each expansion and each resolved symbol [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=6023d5d155359c58bf3400bd]
12:47:28FromGitter<Araq> @haxscramper that's why we have the araq-nkerror branch
12:47:34FromGitter<Araq> it does that
12:47:41FromGitter<Araq> (more or less)
12:47:45FromGitter<haxscramper> I need this for an external tool
12:48:02FromGitter<haxscramper> That injects into compilation process
12:48:14FromGitter<Araq> so make the external tool use the compiler as an API
12:49:00FromGitter<haxscramper> yes, I've already done that. What I'm asking is which particular part of a compiler API would be best suite for this kind of task?
12:49:14FromGitter<haxscramper> I'm looking at `sempass2.nim`, but don't quite see how I can jump in the middle of it
12:49:21FromGitter<haxscramper> yet
12:50:11FromGitter<haxscramper> Right now I'm using post-semcheck AST, which is quite good, but I want to get more information about what happened during compilation
12:51:39FromGitter<Araq> what do you need to know?
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12:54:17FromGitter<haxscramper> For example above I need to know that `test()` was first resolved to `template test()`, and then expanded into `discard`. Right now I know what it expanded to, but without any particular details of what template was expanded actually
12:55:24FromGitter<Araq> template/macro expansions leave no trace
12:55:43FromGitter<Araq> known problem, to be fixed in that they are part of the .rod file (IC support)
12:55:54FromGitter<Araq> what else?
12:55:55PMunchBy the way @no name fits, Nim typically uses 2 spaces instead of 4 for indentation :)
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12:57:39ForumUpdaterBotNew question by Artem Klevtsov: Performance issue when call isSpaceAscii, see https://stackoverflow.com/questions/66137351/performance-issue-when-call-isspaceascii
12:59:45FromDiscord<no name fits> In reply to @PMunch "By the way @no": Oh thanks!
13:00:07FromDiscord<no name fits> Oh it's four in my editor. Must be a Discord thing
13:00:35FromDiscord<no name fits> (edit) "Discord" => "linter"
13:01:34FromDiscord<Rika> i mean its not a requirement of course
13:01:42FromDiscord<Rika> its just most people prefer it, you dont need to follow
13:01:56FromDiscord<no name fits> I don't mind following standards
13:02:03FromDiscord<no name fits> I just need to change a setting somewhere
13:05:34FromDiscord<no name fits> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OWI
13:07:13FromDiscord<no name fits> btw how am I supposed to use the ESTP? <https://nim-lang.org/docs/estp.html> This is for benchmarking right? Or only mem profiling? I tried doing the thing it says, and it does create the stack trace text file, but there's nothing in it, even if I invoke reverse
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13:08:07FromGitter<Araq> don't use ESTP, it's crap
13:08:13FromGitter<Araq> use some external profiler tool
13:08:18FromDiscord<haxscramper> https://nim-lang.org/blog/2017/10/02/documenting-profiling-and-debugging-nim-code.html
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13:08:34FromDiscord<Rika> some people recommend hyperfine, some use another tool i forgot the name of
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13:09:09Mr_Sheesh/!\ this channel has moved to ##hamradio /!\
13:09:37FromGitter<Araq> and don't profile when you are learning Nim, I cannot imagine it would teach you much
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13:10:25FromDiscord<no name fits> Oh? I just wanted to learn how to profile and benchmark code while it was still simple and try different variations of the same proc to see the difference, no?
13:10:31FromDiscord<no name fits> I'm also trying to do TDD
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13:13:14and/!\ this channel has moved to #nyymit /!\
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13:13:56FromDiscord<Rika> spam?
13:14:00Oddmongeryes
13:14:01pixdamix/!\ this channel has moved to #nyymit /!\
13:14:23Oddmongerseen in different irc chans i follow: they connect, post a line like this, and quit
13:14:33Oddmongerseems like a test for an ircbot
13:14:37FromDiscord<Rika> i assume araq is already on it or something
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13:14:57Oddmonger/ircbot/botnet
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13:15:26tasseUL/!\ this channel has moved to #nyymit /!\
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13:16:03FromGitter<Araq> in general you should write idiomatic Nim code and push the burden onto our optimizer. of course in practice optimizers are usually disappointing. but then you can rewrite the performance critical parts in non-idiomatic Nim code and complain about our optimizer
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13:16:59FromDiscord<Clyybber> @Araq Talking about optimization, I was able to improve performance a lot by caching aliased results
13:17:14FromDiscord<Clyybber> It also fixed the pathological bad case I mentioned
13:18:15FromDiscord<no name fits> Oh ok. I was just planning to use Nim for engine dev, so I wanted to get comfortable with profiling relatively early
13:19:26stefantalpalaruCan I trust the default array comparison to do the right thing?
13:19:35stefantalpalaru(in the VM)
13:20:20FromDiscord<haxscramper> Yes, why not?
13:21:11haxscramperFrom my experience you can trust VM almost all the time, at least in such basic operations
13:21:49stefantalpalaruOK. Thanks.
13:33:24FromDiscord<mratsim> In reply to @haxscramper "From my experience you": except shifts
13:36:44FromGitter<Araq> mratsim: I don't understand how https://github.com/mratsim/constantine/blob/master/azure-pipelines.yml ever worked for you
13:37:33FromGitter<Araq> as you don't use dlls.zip nor windeps.zip
13:37:36federico3https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/researcher-hacks-over-35-tech-firms-in-novel-supply-chain-attack/
13:40:36FromDiscord<mratsim> In reply to @Araq "as you don't use": probably because those deps (OpenSSL, zip, pcre) are by default in Azure agent paths
13:44:13FromGitter<Araq> mratsim: use this command `bitsadmin.exe /rawreturn /transfer "JobName" /priority FOREGROUND https://curl.se/ca/cacert.pem $nim/bin` please
13:44:33FromGitter<Araq> with the right replacement for $nim
13:45:51FromDiscord<mratsim> will do this evening
13:46:11FromDiscord<mratsim> note that I have been using this setup for months across many project: https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/5763, https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/wiki/BuildServices#7-azure-pipelines
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13:46:33FromDiscord<mratsim> since no one changed the wiki, I supposed either it's correct or no one cares
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13:47:33FromGitter<Araq> neither, I wasn't aware and our CIs do use dlls.zip
13:47:56FromGitter<Araq> that's why we have this "release candidate", you know
13:48:27FromGitter<Araq> (final official release is one week from now)
13:49:08FromDiscord<mratsim> I test against devel
13:49:42FromDiscord<mratsim> at least for this particular lib
13:50:13FromDiscord<mratsim> 1.0 and 1.2 didn't work when I tried in the past and didn't find the time to test against 1.4
13:51:20FromGitter<Araq> well ok, but devel is like a release candidate, only worse
13:52:02PMunchfederico3, damn that's a nice little hack
13:52:23federico3PMunch: not suprising, given the "design" of npm
13:53:16PMunchNot at all, when I saw that the private packages had no special prefix I immediately knew what he was going to do
13:53:35PMunchThe pre-install script and DNS bit is nice though
13:54:07PMunchI mean that could also easily try to infect machines on the network and then rely on DNS for C&C
13:56:15federico3other tricks can be done using DNS bitsquatting and so on
14:00:14PMunchYeah DNS is fun
14:01:13PMunchHuh, just google bitsquatting
14:01:31PMunchgoogled*
14:02:04PMunchThe Wikipedia article mentions that they managed to get 3434 requests in one day from bit-flips
14:02:09PMunchThat sounds really high..
14:02:25FromDiscord<mratsim> there are trillions of requests a day
14:02:49PMunchSure, but still
14:03:13FromDiscord<mratsim> that's a 0.0000000000003434% probability? :p
14:03:44federico3it depends on the device
14:03:53PMunchYou'd think most of the DNS servers would run ECC memory, so the error is happening mostly during network transport or the consumer device(s)
14:04:16federico3and it's high enough to be exploited
14:04:33federico3PMunch: it's mainly memory error on the devices
14:04:48FromDiscord<Rika> incoming "you can blame intel for ecc memory not being on consumer devices"
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14:06:30FromDiscord<Rika> this http://www.dinaburg.org/bitsquatting.html says 52k requests
14:06:45FromDiscord<Rika> over around half a year
14:06:53FromDiscord<Rika> so very miniscule
14:18:25FromDiscord<no name fits> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OWW
14:19:09FromDiscord<haxscramper> IF you need stylistic comments - `proc {.noSideEffect.}` is the same as `func`
14:19:21FromDiscord<no name fits> oh right I forgot about that!
14:19:22FromDiscord<Yardanico> "return" is also redundant in your code
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14:19:35FromDiscord<haxscramper> ^ and this
14:19:41FromDiscord<Yardanico> you can remove it and replace second and third ifs with elif
14:19:53FromDiscord<no name fits> oh yeah return is implicit :NotLikeThis:
14:19:56FromDiscord<Yardanico> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/jx2
14:20:10FromDiscord<Yardanico> @no name fits sometimes using return is fine (for control flow for example)
14:20:32FromDiscord<no name fits> I'm coming from C# so I'm still learning
14:20:43FromDiscord<no name fits> You guys are super helpful btw
14:20:49FromDiscord<haxscramper> Some people prefer `result = ` most of the time, even when explicit could do fine
14:21:10FromDiscord<haxscramper> So `return/result =/<implicit>` is mostly a matter of preference
14:21:28FromDiscord<no name fits> What do people usually expect to see?
14:21:34FromDiscord<Rika> no preference
14:21:38FromDiscord<no name fits> Alright
14:21:45FromGitter<Araq> avoid `return`
14:22:02FromDiscord<no name fits> Because?
14:22:04FromGitter<Araq> it's bad, unstructured control flow
14:22:06FromDiscord<Rika> use result as much as you can, until it starts looking awful
14:22:10FromDiscord<no name fits> Ah ok
14:22:25FromDiscord<Rika> also because theres an optimisation that can be done w/ result i believe
14:22:30FromDiscord<Rika> but not return
14:22:54FromGitter<Araq> I routinely rewrite code full of 'continue' and 'return' to use more indentation and 'elif'
14:23:02FromDiscord<no name fits> I see
14:23:44FromDiscord<no name fits> Also is it better to do more elif or long ``or`` expressions?
14:24:03FromDiscord<Yardanico> well, if you have the same code, it's better to not repeat and use or
14:24:10FromGitter<Araq> yeah
14:24:36FromDiscord<Rika> i do it only if the expressions are related, but once theyre not related, split it
14:25:06FromDiscord<Yardanico> @Araq so it's better to use more indentation? For example if in a for loop I need to go to next iteration if the value doesn't satisfy the condition I can either do "if not x: continue" and then the code, or "if x: code"
14:25:14FromDiscord<mratsim> I like return
14:25:22FromDiscord<Yardanico> the latter results in more indentation but no "continue"
14:26:33FromDiscord<no name fits> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OX2
14:26:51FromDiscord<no name fits> or the ``or`` on the next line?
14:26:56FromDiscord<Rika> i dont know my opinion tbh, i'm for using result as much as possible but then there's stuff like early return thats really nice
14:27:27FromDiscord<Yardanico> also, about your algorithm for checking if something is an isogram - another way is to simple iterate over the alphabet and check if .count of the letter in the string is more than 1
14:27:52FromGitter<Araq> Yardanico: yes. And yes, I know many people don't agree. They are all wrong though.
14:28:10FromDiscord<Yardanico> okay, thanks, will try to use continue less often
14:30:16FromDiscord<Yardanico> @no name fits for example this:
14:30:23FromDiscord<Yardanico> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/A8X
14:30:37FromDiscord<Yardanico> you can use return inside the loop too instead of result + break, not sure what would be better in this case
14:30:48FromDiscord<Rika> that sounds slow though doesnt it
14:30:59FromDiscord<Yardanico> well, their original solution is recursive
14:31:05FromDiscord<Yardanico> and a lot of slices
14:31:34FromDiscord<no name fits> Yeah I wasn't sure how I wanted to solve it honestly. I know it's a sorting problem, but I don't know how to sort quickly in Nim :NotLikeThis:
14:31:35FromDiscord<Yardanico> also yeah, I forgot
14:31:35FromDiscord<Rika> cant you have a container where you have all letters and their counts, increment while iterating, then if one is over 1, result = false?
14:31:39FromDiscord<Yardanico> need to toLowerAscii
14:31:49FromDiscord<Yardanico> @Rika yes, CountTable for example
14:32:41FromDiscord<Yardanico> but idk which would be faster
14:32:51FromDiscord<Rika> O(n^2) vs O(n)?
14:32:51FromDiscord<no name fits> Like if you have ``aba`` you wanna sort it so you have ``aab``. That's how I learned it anyway
14:32:57FromDiscord<Rika> you dont need sorting do you?
14:33:14FromDiscord<Rika> actually more of O(mn) vs O(n) sorry
14:33:30FromDiscord<Yardanico> @no name fits wait, why sorting?
14:33:37FromDiscord<Rika> i dont see why sorting is needed yeah
14:33:49FromDiscord<Yardanico> isogram is simply a string which has no repeated letters (each letter appears zero or one times)
14:34:07FromDiscord<no name fits> They just told me that sort to find duplicates
14:34:27FromDiscord<Rika> whatr
14:34:28FromDiscord<Rika> no
14:34:28FromDiscord<no name fits> "They" being uni
14:34:31FromDiscord<Rika> you dont need to
14:34:35FromDiscord<Rika> thats wasteful
14:34:36FromDiscord<Zeus> I think the idea is once you sort, you do a pass where you check if the current letter and the previous letter are the same
14:34:49FromDiscord<Rika> well depends on what you need more
14:34:49FromDiscord<Yardanico> oh, yeah
14:34:51FromDiscord<Rika> time vs memory
14:35:11FromDiscord<Rika> though the time rampup for this is much more than memory
14:35:12FromDiscord<no name fits> I'm sorry if I've been taught wrong :NotLikeThis:
14:35:32FromDiscord<Rika> the memory complexity of mine only needs max all letters aka 26 ints or so
14:35:39FromDiscord<Rika> 26 single byte ints even
14:35:56FromDiscord<Rika> while you need a hella lot of time if the string was like 20000 chars long
14:36:03FromDiscord<no name fits> Oh I see
14:36:07FromDiscord<no name fits> That makes sense
14:36:09FromDiscord<Rika> for sorting
14:36:22FromDiscord<Rika> mine only needs to iterate once, and not even the whole thing if there is a duplicate
14:36:54FromDiscord<Zeus> yeah the worst case is O(N)
14:37:09FromDiscord<Yardanico> @Araq I'm not sure if I asked that already, but can `sink` annotation be used to simply have a mutable proc argument? Instead of doing `var arg = arg` in the procedure body
14:37:17FromDiscord<Rika> i believe the "O" in O(n) means worst case šŸ˜›
14:37:25FromDiscord<no name fits> lol
14:37:57FromDiscord<Zeus> Ah yeah. I forgot
14:38:30FromDiscord<Rika> i dont know why i know this when ive only been in uni for a few months xd ig i'm too interested in these kinds of things
14:38:57FromDiscord<Rika> anyway
14:40:27FromDiscord<no name fits> I also didn't know about ``Letters`` so thanks
14:40:39FromDiscord<Yardanico> it's a constant from strutils
14:40:45FromDiscord<Yardanico> https://nim-lang.org/docs/strutils.html#10
14:42:31krux02,9Does Discord show irc colored text?
14:42:41FromDiscord<arne> aparently not
14:42:53FromDiscord<Rika> i believe its not possible
14:42:55FromDiscord<Yardanico> discord doesn't support colors
14:42:57FromDiscord<Rika> discord doesnt
14:42:58FromDiscord<Rika> yeah
14:42:58stefantalpalaruSo IRC is superior.
14:43:05FromDiscord<Yardanico> in some ways, yes :)
14:43:09FromDiscord<Rika> yeah]
14:43:12planetis[m]matrix does.
14:43:17krux02I knew it
14:43:21FromDiscord<no name fits> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OXd
14:44:04FromDiscord<Yardanico> @no name fits why do you use normalize instead of toLowerAscii? and also sorry, if you convert string to lowercase you don't need Letters, you can just do 'a' .. 'z'
14:44:11krux02@no name fits: you code is pasted on nim playground
14:44:22FromDiscord<no name fits> I thought normalize was preferred?
14:44:53FromDiscord<Rika> to what?
14:44:54FromDiscord<Rika> for what?
14:45:00FromDiscord<haxscramper> You can just use whatever you want
14:45:02FromDiscord<no name fits> Comparing strings?
14:45:09FromDiscord<Yardanico> but you're not comparing strings
14:45:12FromDiscord<Rika> it depends on the usecase
14:45:15FromDiscord<Yardanico> you just need to lowercase the string
14:45:16FromDiscord<no name fits> oh, right
14:45:19FromDiscord<haxscramper> There is not a lot of "preferred" things anyway here
14:45:33FromDiscord<Yardanico> sent a code paste, see https://paste.rs/bng
14:45:34FromDiscord<Yardanico> @krux02 yes, the discord bridge auto-pastes code pastes
14:45:52FromDiscord<Yardanico> it also tries to handle code pastes with text (converts text into code comments)
14:46:01FromDiscord<dom96> federico3: you should join #nimble if you havenā€™t already
14:46:02FromDiscord<no name fits> should I do an early exit if the string is just one character?
14:46:08krux02your normalization does a string copy. Could be avoided. And you could return early when the result is set to false once
14:46:23FromDiscord<no name fits> right, thanks
14:46:28krux02I don't know what "normalize" does
14:46:46FromDiscord<Yardanico> "That means to convert it to lower case and remove any '_'. This should NOT be used to normalize Nim identifier names."
14:46:46krux02but usually it is better to do the normalization during iteration
14:46:47FromDiscord<Rika> removes underscores and lowercases
14:46:56FromDiscord<Rika> lowercases -> makes lowercase
14:47:21krux02ouch, that function shouldn't be used at all.
14:47:39FromDiscord<no name fits> I'm not normalizing a Nim identifier though?
14:47:52FromDiscord<Yardanico> but why do you need to replace _ with a space anyway ? :P
14:48:04FromDiscord<Yardanico> there's toLowerAscii which just changes string to lowercase without doing anything extra
14:48:12FromDiscord<no name fits> I don't :NotLikeThis: I just have no idea what I'm doing mostly
14:48:13FromDiscord<Rika> i think it would be better to error out when an undesirable character is found?
14:48:22FromDiscord<Yardanico> why?
14:48:23FromDiscord<Zeus> Doesn't `count` iterate through the string? So in every iteration through `a..z` you're going to be iterating through the string n times.
14:48:30FromDiscord<Yardanico> yeah that's true, we talked about it
14:48:34FromDiscord<raymanlib> Can I make a GUI library without requiring another one that was written in C/C++ like gtk or qt?
14:48:40krux02no the function was made for nim identifiers. Then nim identifiers got changed to be aware of the first letter casing but this function was left as it is for "backwards compatibility" breaking all code that used it for identifiers.
14:48:43FromDiscord<no name fits> In reply to @Rika "i think it would": The assignment wants the func to continue, only letters that are the same
14:48:47krux02no this function shouldn't be used at all.
14:48:53FromDiscord<Yardanico> @raymanlib well, it depends on what level of abstraction we're talking
14:49:02FromDiscord<Yardanico> do you consider using native OS frameworks ok ?
14:49:07FromDiscord<Zeus> (edit) "n times." => "again."
14:49:08FromDiscord<Yardanico> if so, there's NIGui already for example
14:49:17FromDiscord<Yardanico> it's rather simple though
14:49:18krux02just do a normal to lower case per charactor, if you hate underscores, do a continue on them
14:49:21FromDiscord<Yardanico> but yeah, you totally can
14:49:23FromDiscord<Rika> would you like to rewrite SDL? xdddd
14:49:26FromDiscord<Rika> im joking btw
14:49:58FromDiscord<no name fits> I thought we were just told ``continue`` was bad? :NotLikeThis:
14:50:14FromDiscord<Rika> opinion
14:50:16FromDiscord<Rika> depends on you
14:50:19FromDiscord<Yardanico> and on the situation
14:50:35FromDiscord<Rika> avoid it if you want
14:50:39krux02no name fits: I like to disagree with @Araq on many things.
14:50:49krux02And usually he is wrong about it when we disagree.
14:50:55FromDiscord<Rika> people will criticise no matter what you do to your code
14:51:27krux02have your own opinion. No code or language feature is bad for the sake of being bad.
14:51:53krux02using continue without a concept on when to use it or not might end up in dirty code.
14:52:03krux02Using continue consistently can be very clean.
14:52:09krux02You are still learning
14:52:23FromDiscord<raymanlib> What did you mean by abstraction and using native OS frameworks?
14:52:35krux02your code will be inconsistent anyway becaues you are still learing, don't spend too much time investing into what is good and what is bad.
14:52:39krux02Just do what works.
14:52:56FromDiscord<Yardanico> @raymanlib I'm just not sure what you exactly want
14:53:09FromDiscord<Yardanico> if you mean "create my own gui framework without gtk/qt by using pure opengl/vulkan/etc" - sure
14:53:15FromDiscord<no name fits> @krux I'd just hate to pick up too many bad habits
14:53:47FromDiscord<raymanlib> I know nim has native libraries for working with xlib/win32 without external dependencies.
14:56:09FromDiscord<no name fits> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OXm
14:56:27liblq-dev@no name fits, you'll see what works and what doesn't as you learn how to code
14:56:44liblq-devdo as krux said, don't worry too much about correctness or good practices. just make it work
14:58:07FromGitter<Araq> the good practice is what I said though
14:59:08FromGitter<Araq> but it doesn't matter for `isPalindrome` indeed
15:01:16FromDiscord<Yardanico> ok, seems like nigui's 4th example still crashes with orc (nimDecRefIsLastCyclicDyn is last in the stack trace), guess I'll have to minimise it this time (although it might be a nigui bug at this point)
15:02:08FromDiscord<Clyybber> If it works with refc but doesn't with orc then it's probably an orc bug
15:02:21FromDiscord<Clyybber> we know that there is one remaining at least
15:02:31FromDiscord<Yardanico> sorry, arc
15:02:36FromDiscord<Clyybber> oh?
15:02:45FromDiscord<Yardanico> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/809076894242570300/unknown.png
15:02:48FromDiscord<Clyybber> nimDecRefIsLastCyclicDyn sounds very orc
15:02:57FromDiscord<Yardanico> the first time I seen it was a bit more than half a year ago
15:03:08FromDiscord<Yardanico> i mean in this nigui example
15:04:00FromDiscord<Clyybber> so it happens with arc too?
15:04:02FromDiscord<Yardanico> yes
15:04:09FromDiscord<Clyybber> try without cursor inference
15:04:27FromDiscord<Yardanico> still crashes
15:05:39FromDiscord<Yardanico> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OXJ
15:05:40FromDiscord<Yardanico> click the "ok" button and it crashes
15:05:42FromGitter<Araq> run it on valgrind, nothing else works
15:05:46FromDiscord<Yardanico> ah okay
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15:08:39FromDiscord<raymanlib> I'm making a text editor for nim. Should I make everything in one file or split it up into many different files?
15:09:04PMunchDepends on how big of a project it's going to be
15:09:08FromDiscord<Yardanico> that's up to you, but splitting would be better :)
15:09:11PMunchBut multiple files is probably the best
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15:14:05krux02@Araq: I see, now you are blocking me on nim-lang and deleting my comments
15:14:18krux02nice move
15:14:21FromGitter<Araq> coming soon. an IRC ban
15:14:30krux02awesome
15:14:36krux02you wanna ban all good people now
15:14:40FromDiscord<Rika> why?
15:14:42FromDiscord<Rika> the hell
15:14:52FromDiscord<Rika> what did he do exactly that warrants this
15:15:02FromGitter<Araq> too much trolling
15:15:09FromDiscord<Rika> where?
15:15:20krux02here: https://github.com/nim-lang/RFCs/issues/338
15:15:23FromGitter<Araq> here, there, everywhere.
15:15:47*j-james quit (Quit: WeeChat 3.0)
15:16:07krux02first you ban disruptek, now you want to ban me?
15:16:12FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @krux02 "here: https://github.com/nim-lang/RFCs/issues/338": well how would i know now if its deleted
15:16:21krux02you don't
15:17:21krux02@Rika: here I reuploaded it to ix.io: http://ix.io/2OXN
15:18:19FromDiscord<Rika> where the fuck here is the trolling
15:18:55FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @krux02 "first you ban disruptek,": legitimately dis's ban was justified
15:19:52FromDiscord<Rika> careful with what, @Solitude? might get banned? that's fine, it's just gonna bring attention to the issue anyway
15:21:34krux02Btw that is how @Araq handles with criticism. Banning the people who criticise.
15:21:43krux02And make them shut up on all channels.
15:22:25FromGitter<Araq> plenty of people manage to criticize without forgetting about their manners
15:22:28FromDiscord<Rika> this isnt even inflammatory, though of course i cant trust it fully since its not the actual source
15:22:37FromDiscord<Solitude> your last comment doesnt reads like a criticism
15:22:51FromDiscord<Rika> `I also don't get what the point is to read the spec as you change the spec to whatever you want at any point anyway.` this?
15:23:10FromDiscord<Rika> it doesnt read inflammatory to me
15:23:19krux02@Rika: It is a copy paset of the original, I saw that it was removed and could save it.
15:23:32FromGitter<Araq> it's not just this one remark
15:23:37FromGitter<Araq> let me quote you
15:23:52krux02@Solitude: It is criticsm. A bit sarcastic, but criticism never the less.
15:23:53FromGitter<Araq> https://irclogs.nim-lang.org/01-02-2021.html#23:35:35
15:24:11krux02wow
15:24:14FromGitter<Araq> now you're back and I don't see the point of having you around.
15:24:29FromDiscord<Rika> what
15:24:30*xet7 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
15:24:32FromDiscord<Rika> what about this remark
15:24:40FromDiscord<Rika> whats the issue with that remark
15:26:44krux02@Araq: how about instead of shuttin up and stopping people who want to contribute to improve the compiler and then falsely claiming you would do it on your own. You either fix the problems on your own, or you let the people who want to help fix the problem.
15:26:56krux02It's not like I didn't provide a patch to the problem.
15:27:38krux02The part that you didn't like is the "As I sad so" part, because I knew the problem from the beginning and you can't accept it that I was right from the beginning.
15:27:46krux02And now you want to ban me because of it.
15:28:04FromGitter<Araq> you were right from the beginning indeed
15:28:09*xet7 joined #nim
15:28:10FromDiscord<Rika> okay
15:28:20FromDiscord<Rika> okay i see it now
15:28:36FromGitter<Araq> but you never came up with a good alternative solution to the problem
15:28:43FromGitter<Araq> not that you have to.
15:28:43krux02I did
15:28:53krux02provide a good compilation error message, done.
15:29:18krux02I am done with making PR to Nim anyway. They get closed by the stale bot.
15:29:30krux02So much about "You are going to merge them eventually"
15:30:53*vicfred quit (Quit: Leaving)
15:31:29FromGitter<Araq> what's the point of this? so I'm a liar, ok. Is that your strategy for avoiding a ban, throw mud at me and see what sticks?
15:34:05PMunchPeople are just frustrated that things they do don't get merged
15:34:16PMunchWell, not "just", but that's partly the reason
15:34:26krux02The stategy is to make you resign and provide an appropriate apology.
15:35:46krux02And then improve in the future.
15:35:54PMunchWell that's a bit harsh..
15:36:08PMunchOh wait, the other kind of resign
15:36:16FromGitter<Araq> PRs get merged all the time, but if we say "do X before it gets merged" and then the X is never done that's not my fault.
15:36:41krux02Araq: don't make me dig up PR now
15:37:06FromDiscord<mratsim> In reply to @Rika "this isnt even inflammatory,": it's the actual comment, i actually upvoted it
15:37:08krux02after all I am banned anyway
15:38:34krux02I know I am uncomfortable for you. But I just bring up the problems that you caused on your own.
15:38:38FromDiscord<mratsim> anyway I agree that providing an error message and not compiling is the proper way to handle {.compileTime.} accessed at runtime. it would have closed the original issue as well
15:39:08krux02And when your fix is to ban the messenger, then there is no point in me being active here in this community. Then you can ban me.
15:39:19FromDiscord<mratsim> (the original issue being trying to access those and it didn't work, as in the manual, though it didn't handle that gracefully)
15:40:28krux02@Araq It would tell me the sign that you are not interesting in fixing the problems in Nim.
15:41:40krux02Btw, with resign I mean resign fighting me and finally accepting my criticism.
15:41:52krux02not resiging you position in Nim
15:43:26FromDiscord<Clyybber> krux02: Araq said > you were right from the beginning indeed
15:43:39krux02I read that
15:43:42FromDiscord<Clyybber> krux02: Do you want him to automatically accept all your criticism?
15:43:43krux02That is a start
15:43:52FromDiscord<Clyybber> Talk about concrete stuff
15:44:01FromDiscord<Clyybber> not all your criticisims are automatically valid
15:44:48FromDiscord<Clyybber> For this issue, making {.compileTime.} accessible at runtime was to provide for a way to have a "value after all compilation is done" relay from compiletime into runtime
15:45:07krux02@Clyybber: you are not helping it.
15:45:10FromDiscord<Clyybber> So an alternative needs to provide this
15:45:24FromDiscord<mratsim> no, for this issue specifically that was a workaround to close the issue nicely
15:45:26FromDiscord<Clyybber> krux02: not sure what you mean by that
15:45:36PMunchI like @mratsims new suggestion there, the whole `var myRTVar = static: myCTVar`
15:45:37krux02I know how compileTime works, I know not all of my criticsm is valid.
15:45:47FromDiscord<mratsim> the proper way to close it would have been, this is illegal and should be an error anyway use static
15:45:55FromDiscord<Clyybber> I also want compileTime to be not accessible at runtime
15:46:16FromDiscord<Clyybber> We need a staticDelayed magic
15:46:20FromDiscord<Clyybber> name up for debat
15:46:28FromDiscord<Rika> the issue is that it feels like araq is just universally against criticism against him, at least its what i feel as well
15:46:50krux02But discussing a feature with me. Then hearing my advice. Then ignoring it, change the implementation, change the spec and last but not least say "Did anybody read the spec and the reason behind this feature? Oh well" is a behavior that is not acceptable as a leader.
15:46:53FromDiscord<konsumlamm> In reply to @Clyybber "We need a staticDelayed": you mean something like rust's lazy_static?
15:47:31FromDiscord<Clyybber> @konsumlamm Nope
15:47:57FromDiscord<mratsim> Rust lazy_static is a workaround for Rust not able to call proc and assign the result to a const
15:47:58FromDiscord<Clyybber> Think of a static value, but it's put into the C code after the Nim VM has already run
15:48:47krux02@Clyybber: I really don't want to disciss this specific issue here, you can write in the issue itself if you want that.
15:49:12krux02this discussion is about the meta level of dealing is criticism and managing Nim.
15:49:21FromDiscord<Clyybber> no I mean what you meant with "you are not helping it"
15:49:27FromDiscord<mratsim> I don't understand the need of "staticDelayed", I believe i do th most funky things at compile-time, including writing a compiler a macros, and I only ever needed `const foo = static(myComputation(arg1, arg2, arg3))`
15:49:35FromDiscord<Clyybber> Not sure if it's the language barrier, but tend to make things personal
15:49:43FromDiscord<Clyybber> (edit) "Not sure if it's the language barrier, but ... tend" added "you"
15:50:13krux02@Clyybber: well that is because it is personal
15:50:25FromDiscord<Clyybber> I mean "you are not helping it"
15:50:25krux02it is a personal problem not a technical one.
15:50:50krux02sorry, I meant it leads the discussion in the wrong direction.
15:50:55FromDiscord<mratsim> it's a ego and tone problem here
15:50:55FromDiscord<Clyybber> ah ok
15:52:35FromGitter<Araq> not my ego. everybody but krux02 managed to talk just fine about the RFC and other Nim defects.
15:52:41FromDiscord<Clyybber> @mratsim Hmm, I can imagine a class macro for example, would collect all classes during compile time and then wants to translate that info to runtime
15:52:57FromDiscord<mratsim> In reply to @Clyybber "<@!570268431522201601> Hmm, I can": I have that
15:53:15krux02Araq: I managed to talk about it just fine as well. You decided to ban me however.
15:53:23FromDiscord<mratsim> https://github.com/mratsim/trace-of-radiance/blob/master/trace_of_radiance/support/emulate_classes_with_ADTs.nimā†µā†µhttps://github.com/mratsim/compute-graph-optim
15:53:27FromDiscord<Clyybber> In reply to @mratsim "I have that": When do you do the calculation of type ids?
15:53:29krux02So I guess it is your ego
15:53:41FromDiscord<mratsim> In reply to @Clyybber "When do you do": all IDs are done in a table at compile-time
15:53:53FromDiscord<Rika> i seriously dont see the issue with the thing that you blocked krux for
15:54:22FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> how is he banned and talking tho šŸ¤”
15:54:22FromDiscord<Clyybber> In reply to @mratsim "all IDs are done": Do you store it in a const?
15:54:33FromDiscord<Rika> blocked in the github repo
15:54:35FromDiscord<Rika> not banned in irc
15:54:41FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> ah
15:54:50krux02I am blocked on github now yes
15:55:02stefantalpalaruThat's not cool.
15:55:14FromDiscord<mratsim> In reply to @Clyybber "Do you store it": I store it in a let {.compileTime.} that I then move to a const array here: https://github.com/status-im/nimbus-eth1/blame/5248be1766834697a0c0ef194270767488112e70/nimbus/vm/interpreter/gas_costs.nim#L459-L460
15:55:26FromDiscord<no name fits> Is this a regular thing? Not trying to worsen the mood
15:55:44FromDiscord<Clyybber> not really
15:55:50stefantalpalaruNo, this is one of the better days.
15:55:55FromDiscord<Clyybber> huh?
15:55:55FromDiscord<mratsim> In reply to @no name fits "Is this a regular": No, there was a warranted ban 2 weeks ago, and this is another one.
15:55:57FromDiscord<Clyybber> lol
15:56:21FromDiscord<Rika> In reply to @mratsim "No, there was a": another one?
15:56:27FromDiscord<mratsim> disruptek
15:56:31FromDiscord<Rika> i mean this
15:56:34FromDiscord<Clyybber> In reply to @mratsim "I store it in": Hmm, but how do you ensure that you move it to a const array after all macro invocations have been processed
15:56:35FromDiscord<Rika> this is another one?
15:56:40FromDiscord<Rika> this is warranted?
15:56:45FromDiscord<mratsim> no this one is not
15:57:02FromDiscord<Rika> i mean sure the chat AFTER the block was pretty inflammatory
15:57:11FromDiscord<Rika> BUT thats what happens when emotions get to you
15:57:18FromDiscord<reilly> Is there a graph somewhere comparing compile-times between Nim and a few other languages? I'm sure I remember seeing one, but I can't remember where to look.
15:57:23FromDiscord<reilly> I need it for reasons.
15:57:57FromDiscord<mratsim> In reply to @Clyybber "Hmm, but how do": I use static
15:57:59FromDiscord<Clyybber> In reply to @reilly "Is there a graph": hmm maybe @Yardanico knows
15:58:24FromDiscord<Clyybber> In reply to @mratsim "I use static": yeah, but static gives you the value of the compileTime variable at the time that the compiler encounters static: afaik
15:58:38FromDiscord<Yardanico> @Clyybber not really :)
15:58:43FromDiscord<Clyybber> oh :D
15:58:50FromDiscord<Yardanico> the issue with arc is strange
15:59:11FromDiscord<mratsim> In reply to @Clyybber "yeah, but static gives": so I make sure it's the last.
15:59:20FromDiscord<no name fits> I was just wondering if it was ok if I posted another mini assignment I did for feedback? or if it's a bad time
15:59:32FromDiscord<Clyybber> @no name fits sure, go ahead
15:59:42FromDiscord<Clyybber> it's never a bad time :D
15:59:54krux02@Araq: please undo my ban and revive my comment.
16:00:04FromDiscord<Clyybber> In reply to @mratsim "so I make sure": But you can't when your module is not the main module
16:00:34FromGitter<Araq> will you apologize for blaming me that I pull the spec out of my ass and it's not worth reading?
16:00:37FromDiscord<mratsim> In reply to @Clyybber "But you can't when": shared mutable compile-time global just go in the Nim anti-pattern bin
16:00:47FromDiscord<no name fits> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OY7
16:00:57krux02@Araq: Didn't you pull the spec out of your ass?
16:01:17FromDiscord<Clyybber> In reply to @mratsim "shared mutable compile-time global": heh; it's a reasonable use case IMO and needed for some features
16:01:18FromGitter<Araq> I didn't, I collect use cases from my users
16:01:27FromDiscord<no name fits> Also not to kiss ass or anything but I actually thought the spec was one of the better ones I've seen, compared to Java, Python and C#
16:01:40FromDiscord<no name fits> I would've just liked more example for people like me
16:01:45FromDiscord<no name fits> (edit) "I would've just liked more example ... for" added "code"
16:01:52FromDiscord<mratsim> In reply to @Clyybber "heh; it's a reasonable": It's completely broken because Nim has a different hash function between compile-time and runtime and so ID aren't stable
16:01:59krux02But you ignored my advice and the spec that explicitly said only compile time.
16:02:11FromDiscord<Clyybber> In reply to @mratsim "It's completely broken because": Is that the case still?
16:02:23FromDiscord<Clyybber> Even if it is, it should be possible eventually
16:02:33FromDiscord<mratsim> In reply to @Clyybber "Is that the case": It's the one of the reasons why we can't use 1.4.x at status
16:02:49krux02So there is no agreement in the spec that people settlo on after a discussion. After all it is you who writes it and changes it at your desire alone.
16:02:54FromDiscord<Clyybber> In reply to @mratsim "It's the one of": Oh it's a regression too?
16:02:59krux02And that is my criticsm.
16:03:04krux02And it is still valid.
16:03:18FromDiscord<Clyybber> krux02: The RFC is about a spec change
16:03:24FromDiscord<Clyybber> And it has not been rejected?
16:03:53krux02Clyybber: The RFC is about a reversal of a spec change
16:03:59FromDiscord<mratsim> In reply to @Clyybber "krux02: The RFC *is*": https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/lib/pure/hashes.nim#L352-L355
16:04:16krux02a spec change that I explicity said from the beginning it would cause problems.
16:04:17FromDiscord<reilly> Okay, how about that graph for executable sizes? I know it's hidden somewhere on the website, I just can't ever remember where nor find it.
16:04:17FromDiscord<mratsim> argh, scrolling is too fast, reply to the wrong comment
16:04:42FromDiscord<mratsim> In reply to @Clyybber "krux02: The RFC *is*": The spec was changed without a RFC
16:05:33krux02@mratsim: you can edit comments as far as I know
16:05:34FromDiscord<Clyybber> In reply to @mratsim "https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/lib/pure": Is there an issue for this?
16:05:38FromDiscord<mratsim> This was the change https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/pull/12128
16:06:18FromDiscord<no name fits> In reply to @reilly "Okay, how about that": I found this? https://github.com/def-/nim-benchmarksgame
16:06:36FromGitter<Araq> I don't see how "you pull the spec out of your ass" is a valid, well-founded criticism that doesn't deserve a ban.
16:06:37FromDiscord<mratsim> In reply to @Clyybber "Is there an issue": I don't think so but you can piggy back on this one: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/12516 :p
16:06:53krux02@Araq: That are your words, not mine.
16:07:13krux02I just repeated them.
16:07:26FromDiscord<Rika> what?
16:07:45stefantalpalaruOnly actual spam deserves a ban. Work out your personal issues and keep contributing to this small community.
16:07:57FromDiscord<mratsim> In reply to @reilly "Okay, how about that": There are some blog post about minimizing execurable sizes
16:08:03FromGitter<Araq> true but your original words were just as offensive because I'm not an idiot
16:08:16FromDiscord<mratsim> In reply to @reilly "Okay, how about that": https://hookrace.net/blog/nim-binary-size/
16:08:27krux02@Araq: what was offensive about it?
16:08:36krux02Did I use offensive language?
16:08:43FromDiscord<no name fits> pls no drama :NotLikeThis: Maybe use a different channel?
16:09:00PMunchstefantalpalaru, agreed
16:09:14FromDiscord<reilly> Yes, but I need the one that compares size with other languages. Knowing a Nim exe size in isolation isn't helpful to me right now.
16:09:47FromDiscord<mratsim> In reply to @reilly "Yes, but I need": write code in the languages of interest and use `bloaty` to look into the differences.
16:10:12FromDiscord<mratsim> make sure to use the same options w.r.t. to debugging symbols because with debugging symbols 90% of the binary is text.
16:10:29FromDiscord<Rika> with regards to to debugging
16:10:29FromDiscord<Clyybber> I remember the graph that reilly was talking about
16:10:44FromDiscord<Clyybber> but don't know where it was
16:11:13krux02@Araq: The part that was offensive to you was the part were I spoke the uncomfortable truth.
16:11:22FromDiscord<reilly> If anybody ends up finding it, I'm gonna save that graph somewhere for next time, cause this is the second time this exact thing has happened.
16:12:02FromGitter<Araq> really? the truth? then how come you still don't understand the actual issue?
16:12:23FromDiscord<haxscramper> In reply to @reilly "If anybody ends up": https://hackaday.com/2018/09/25/nim-writes-c-code-and-more-for-you/ &
16:12:24FromDiscord<haxscramper> ?
16:12:34FromDiscord<reilly> That's the one!
16:12:38FromDiscord<Clyybber> \o/
16:12:40FromDiscord<hamidb80> Can anyone give some info about `gdb`? How `gdb` can show Nim code to you but execute C code?
16:13:10krux02@himidb80, I can
16:13:11FromDiscord<haxscramper> Also found this article https://sdevprog.blogspot.com/2018/04/overview-of-efficient-programming.html
16:13:13FromDiscord<mratsim> In reply to @hamidb80 "Can anyone give some": gdb executes machine code not C code
16:13:17krux02I wrote the gdb plugin for Nim
16:13:25krux02but @Araq is about to ban me right now
16:13:34PMunchkrux02, don't be like that..
16:13:41FromDiscord<haxscramper> @reilly It does not have a graph directly, but features quite comprehensive table from what I can tell
16:14:08FromDiscord<haxscramper> oh, but no binary sizes
16:14:20PMunchI mean I agree with you, but that's just a bit petty
16:14:29FromDiscord<Yardanico> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OY9
16:14:32krux02yea sorry it is.
16:14:44FromDiscord<Clyybber> In reply to @Yardanico "<@!107882072974065664> so, I realised": Hmm, interesting, yeah please do!
16:14:45PMunch@himidb80, it's basically what's called a source code filter I believe
16:14:52FromDiscord<Yardanico> (edit) "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OYb" => "https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OYa"
16:15:14PMunchIf you look it your C source code it has line directives telling GDB which line of which Nim file you're in
16:15:28krux02@Araq: How do I not understand the actual issues? Can you elaborate?
16:15:44FromGitter<Araq> clyybber explained it well here
16:15:51FromDiscord<hamidb80> In reply to @krux02 "but <@757977596066660455> is about": I don't know what's going on but I think one of you should end up this argument.
16:16:11FromDiscord<haxscramper> @reilly and also - https://github.com/frol/completely-unscientific-benchmarks < this one has more useful programs (not just 'hello world')
16:16:14FromDiscord<Rika> or take it to dms or something, like please
16:17:21FromDiscord<no name fits> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OYd
16:17:27FromDiscord<Yardanico> https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/17003
16:17:32FromDiscord<no name fits> I'm not sure if the ``break`` is considered bad?
16:17:33FromDiscord<Clyybber> @no name fits does that proc not work?
16:17:52FromDiscord<no name fits> No it works fine, I'm just trying to learn from feedback
16:18:30FromDiscord<no name fits> I'm basically doing some mini challenges until they work, and then having you guys tell me all the stuff that could be better šŸ˜…
16:18:37FromDiscord<hamidb80> In reply to @mratsim "gdb executes machine code": So gdb show you something and execute something else?
16:18:51FromDiscord<Clyybber> alphabet = alphabet - {c} could be turned into alphabet.excl c
16:18:58krux02@Araq: maybe you repeat it your words what I don't understand.
16:19:45FromDiscord<Clyybber> @no name fits then you don't need the alphabet.contains(c) anymore either
16:20:19FromDiscord<no name fits> oh right, I didn't even notice that
16:20:36*cyraxjoe quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
16:20:49FromDiscord<no name fits> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OYf
16:20:55FromDiscord<Clyybber> and you don't need the tmp
16:21:03FromDiscord<Clyybber> You can just do for c in toLowerAscii(input)
16:21:12FromDiscord<no name fits> also can't I just do ``true`` instead of the break?
16:21:18FromDiscord<Clyybber> nope
16:21:19FromGitter<Araq> > This is how the spec used to be: āŽ āŽ > A global var that are accessed via a compile-time mechanism needs to be annotated via .compileTime. To use a .compileTime var at runtime, convert it to a a const or let helper variable. āŽ āŽ > One big problem was when to turn it into this helper variable. It needs to be done after the full compilation. This is hard to implement properly but we require the same mechanism for
16:21:19FromGitter... IC and "method" code generation so there is no way around it. So since conversion from .compileTime vars to runtime vars is hard to do with const, we can say that a compileTime variable can be used at runtime and it's initial value is that after the full compilation. And maybe in order to use a .compleTime variable at ru ... [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=602407ff9d5c644f66623f3c]
16:21:20FromDiscord<haxscramper> I swear there was a `toSet(string)` somewhere
16:21:26FromDiscord<Clyybber> In reply to @no name fits "also can't I just": but you can do return true
16:21:43FromGitter<Araq> that is the problem, it's not solved by "just provide a good error message"
16:21:57FromDiscord<konsumlamm> what's so bad about `break`?
16:22:01FromGitter<Araq> that is what I tried to allow, that's why the spec ended up being this way
16:22:08FromDiscord<Clyybber> In reply to @konsumlamm "what's so bad about": nothing, sometimes it's needed
16:22:13FromDiscord<haxscramper> In reply to @haxscramper "I swear there was": So with this one you could've done `len({'a' .. 'z'} - toSet(toLowerAscii(input))) == 0`
16:22:19FromGitter<Araq> and it is a feature that was requested by a paying customer
16:22:32FromGitter<Araq> and it's why I don't pull the spec out of my ass.
16:22:35FromDiscord<haxscramper> In reply to @konsumlamm "what's so bad about": Absolutely nothing
16:22:46FromDiscord<Clyybber> In reply to @haxscramper "So with this one": oh smart!
16:22:47krux02@Araq: The spec is more than problematic. I even agree with timmotheecour here
16:22:47FromDiscord<no name fits> oh right I don't even need to iterate
16:22:57FromDiscord<no name fits> You guys are so much smarter than me omg
16:22:59FromDiscord<konsumlamm> @no name fits why do you try to avoid `ļ»æbreakļ»æ` so hard?
16:23:04FromDiscord<Clyybber> In reply to @no name fits "oh right I don't": you need to iterate somewhere, toSet will do it for you
16:23:06FromGitter<Araq> and btw we all agree this part of the spec sucks
16:23:20krux02but making a {.compilerTime.} var avaialeb at runtime is as simle as assigning it to a const.
16:23:29FromDiscord<Clyybber> krux02: No its not
16:23:33FromDiscord<no name fits> In reply to @konsumlamm "<@!199678698499080192> why do you": was told early ``break`` and ``return`` broke control flow and was bad?
16:23:37FromDiscord<Clyybber> krux02: The timing is important
16:23:40FromDiscord<no name fits> and ``continue``
16:23:42FromDiscord<konsumlamm> wat
16:23:44FromGitter<Araq> everybody but you managed to say this without personally offending me.
16:23:57FromDiscord<konsumlamm> wdym "break control flow"?
16:24:12FromDiscord<Clyybber> @no name fits It's not bad in general; it's just a more "messy" controlflow than simple branching
16:24:16krux02@Araq: but that is your problem not mine. I did insult you at all.
16:24:25FromDiscord<Clyybber> But it is very much needed for some algorithms
16:24:25FromDiscord<Yardanico> @Clyybber yeah, the issue is not related to ARC at all, it's overloading resolution, but sadly due to nigui using "dispose" and arc having a template with the same name we got a crash
16:24:32FromDiscord<Clyybber> Unless you want loads of code duplication
16:24:39FromGitter<Araq> if you want me to unban you, it's pretty much your problem.
16:24:42FromDiscord<konsumlamm> "I did insult you at all"?
16:24:45FromDiscord<Clyybber> In reply to @Yardanico "<@!107882072974065664> yeah, the issue": Ah, I see!
16:24:55FromDiscord<Yardanico> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OYg
16:25:07FromDiscord<no name fits> In reply to @konsumlamm "wdym "break control flow"?": https://discord.com/channels/371759389889003530/371759389889003532/809066585276416030
16:25:09krux02Well it is your reputation after all that goes to the drain here, not mine.
16:25:10FromDiscord<haxscramper> @no name fits I would really advise not to focus on general stylistic advises
16:25:26FromDiscord<haxscramper> not to focus too much
16:26:11FromDiscord<konsumlamm> i think what Araq meant there is to use `result` instead of `return`
16:26:13FromDiscord<haxscramper> For example I could tell you that writing `let variable = case <expr>:` and raising in `else` might be a good idea
16:26:16FromDiscord<no name fits> ah ok
16:26:20FromDiscord<konsumlamm> but there are still enough case where `return` is useful and should be used
16:26:23FromDiscord<haxscramper> But I would be clobbered to death instantly
16:26:28FromDiscord<Rika> https://canary.discordapp.com/channels/371759389889003530/371759389889003532/809067427123429386
16:26:35FromDiscord<Rika> see that as well
16:26:38krux02@Araq: As I said earlier, I want an improved situation. The reason you banned me was I triggered you on a weak spot. If your solution is to ban me instead of fixing the weak spot, then I am all fine with the ban anyway.
16:26:39FromDiscord<haxscramper> Because this is actually very convoluted code
16:26:47FromDiscord<konsumlamm> it's more of a "avoid if it makes the code more simple"
16:26:57krux02Then I see that my contributions aren't welcome anyway.
16:27:11FromDiscord<konsumlamm> (it being avoiding `return`)
16:27:11krux02That would be equal to a soft ban.
16:28:56krux02What is the point to be not banned in a community where problems are shoved under the rack anyway.
16:29:05FromDiscord<Yardanico> changed https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/17003 to the root cause (overloading resolution)
16:30:14FromDiscord<Yardanico> ah wait im stupid
16:30:14FromDiscord<Yardanico> lol
16:30:19FromDiscord<Clyybber> krux02: The RFC is about the problem, the problem is being solved
16:30:54FromGitter<Araq> we are both happy with your ban then, good bye.
16:32:03krux02@Araq: I see a lucky man go home and be pround of what he did today.
16:32:41FromGitter<Araq> you're looking in a mirror, apparently.
16:33:00FromGitter<Araq> as I don't enjoy bans at all. which is why we had 2 of them in 10 years.
16:33:01krux02@Araq: I am looking at an IRC chat
16:33:05FromDiscord<Yardanico> ah darn, it's not even overload resolution since methods are dynamic
16:33:09FromDiscord<Clyybber> krux02: Leave it be already, Araq already has acknowledged that we should fix it; and yet you are continuing with the shit slinging
16:33:11FromDiscord<Yardanico> i'm not sure how to classify the issue
16:33:12krux022?
16:33:30krux02I recall disruptek, me, timotheecour
16:33:31krux02those are 3 already
16:33:34krux02all very active memebres
16:33:40krux02not counting actual trolls
16:33:47FromDiscord<konsumlamm> timothee was banned?
16:33:55FromGitter<Araq> timotheecour is back and you wanted me to ban him...
16:34:11krux02yes
16:34:23krux02I did
16:34:23krux02that is the ban I agreed on
16:34:35FromDiscord<Yardanico> so we have Test1 = ref object of RootObj, Test2 = ref object of Test1, template dispose[T](x: ref T), method dispose(x: Test) and for Test2().dispose() the template is called instead of the method
16:34:39krux02banning disruptek though not so much
16:34:40FromDiscord<Yardanico> not sure if this is even a bug
16:34:55FromDiscord<Yardanico> (edit) "Test)" => "Test1)"
16:34:57FromDiscord<Clyybber> krux02: Who asked? You are constantly digging up stuff to throw
16:35:24FromDiscord<Clyybber> In reply to @konsumlamm "timothee was banned?": a long time ago
16:35:24FromDiscord<konsumlamm> what was he banned for?
16:35:39FromGitter<Araq> for DOS'ing us
16:35:39FromDiscord<Clyybber> opening too much issues
16:35:46FromDiscord<konsumlamm> wait what
16:35:48FromDiscord<Clyybber> that could have been aggregated
16:35:49krux02@konsumlamm: cluttering the issue tracker with incomprehensible issues everey day
16:35:58FromDiscord<konsumlamm> sounds like something he'd do lol
16:36:03FromDiscord<konsumlamm> though not intentionally
16:36:13FromDiscord<Clyybber> let's not dig up old stuff
16:36:15FromDiscord<Clyybber> that was resolved
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16:37:28FromDiscord<no name fits> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OYl
16:37:54FromDiscord<Clyybber> Oh yeah, I don't think there is a toSet that gives a set
16:37:57FromDiscord<Clyybber> Only for HashSets
16:38:21FromDiscord<konsumlamm> there actually is toSet iirc
16:38:25FromDiscord<konsumlamm> in std/setutils
16:38:35FromDiscord<Clyybber> oh
16:38:36FromDiscord<Clyybber> nice
16:38:47FromDiscord<dom96> krux02: I'm amazed that you'd want disruptek to stay but not timotheecour
16:39:23FromDiscord<haxscramper> In reply to @no name fits "<@!608382355454951435> so I tried": What I meant is https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OYm - there is no `toSet(string)` by default, but you could write one like this
16:39:40FromDiscord<konsumlamm> ~~inb4 timothee accuses you of DOSing him for constantly pinging him~~
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16:39:55krux02@dom96: To be honest I saw you and disruptek had an argument. I would have used different words, but egenrally I agreed with him. I think you should improve your software.
16:40:00FromDiscord<haxscramper> By the way using `import std/<packagename>` or `std/[<package-1>, <package-2>]` is actually really recommended
16:40:10krux02And not take his insult persnoally
16:40:11FromDiscord<haxscramper> Because some new modules can only be imported using `std/`
16:40:21FromDiscord<no name fits> oh! ok I'll remember that, thanks
16:40:53FromDiscord<dom96> I honestly have no words any more
16:41:09FromDiscord<konsumlamm> oh, std/setutils seems to require devel
16:41:21FromDiscord<Yardanico> ok I think I finally made a correct test case - but are methods even taken into the account in overloading resolution?
16:41:32FromDiscord<Yardanico> this is why nigui's 4th example crashes with arc/orc
16:41:33FromGitter<Araq> they are, yes
16:41:36FromDiscord<Yardanico> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OYn
16:42:03FromDiscord<konsumlamm> speaking of timothee and `std/`, he made a draft PR to add the path prefix to the generated docs :)
16:42:10FromDiscord<Clyybber> yep, pretty neat
16:42:14FromDiscord<haxscramper> In reply to @konsumlamm "oh, std/setutils seems to": It is actually only available on devel - https://nim-lang.github.io/Nim/setutils.html, but @no name fits, this has `toSet(string)` implementation from what I can see
16:42:22stefantalpalaruI want everybody to stay and act like thick-skinned adults. This community is too small to let petty arguments have serious consequences.
16:42:27FromDiscord<Clyybber> not sure if we should have it as the title or as a subtitle tho
16:42:39FromDiscord<dom96> I think timothee has really listened to feedback and has improved, right now he does a lot of great things.
16:42:45FromDiscord<Clyybber> yep
16:42:46krux02@dom96: I had to fight with nimble a lot and eventually gave up on it. I open issue with it that were not mereged for a long time. And nimble constantly broke my project dependencies and never ensure that my software can be build reproducably. So I can understand when someone gets angry at you because of it. But oft course that is not the right way to communicate it after all you worked for free on it.
16:43:20FromDiscord<dom96> krux02: Yes, your last point is that all that matters
16:43:21FromDiscord<dom96> The rest doesn't
16:43:39krux02@dom96: I was away for 6 months, so I don't know how much he changed.
16:43:43FromDiscord<dom96> (edit) removed "that"
16:44:14krux02but I still sumble upon bad code that git tells me who wrote it.
16:45:00FromDiscord<dom96> stefantalpalaru: PMunch: spam is just one category that will get you banned here, there are others too just like in any positive community.
16:45:25FromDiscord<haxscramper> Well, nimble might use some refactoring I guess, and general ergonomics improvement, but flipping up and trying to boil the ocean and declaring that `nimble` is bad and fundamentally unfixable ... well, I can understand the reasoning, but just as `stefantalpalaru` said
16:45:38ForumUpdaterBotNew thread by DPixie: Is "global_state" a special name in Nim's internals?, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/7495
16:45:44stefantalpalaruDisagree, dom96. I prefer freedom over safety.
16:45:52FromDiscord<haxscramper> I don't see why carefuly discussing it is not an option
16:46:19FromDiscord<konsumlamm> is there a workaround for nimble not being able to depend on two different versions of a package?
16:46:20krux02@dom96: It would all be much better if nimble would be a completely optional side project that can be used to manage nim packages. But nimble the central package manager that comes with nim and everybody who uses nim has to use in some form or another. It makes people sometimes mad when it doesn't work. Even if it is completely free.
16:46:41FromDiscord<Clyybber> can you discuss in #nimble please?
16:46:51FromDiscord<konsumlamm> sure
16:47:00FromDiscord<dom96> clyybber: +1
16:47:04FromDiscord<Clyybber> In reply to @konsumlamm "sure": oh, wasn't referring to you actually :p
16:47:11FromDiscord<konsumlamm> ah lol
16:47:11FromDiscord<Clyybber> but I guess it fits there better too :)
16:47:23krux02@Clyybber: this is not about nimble, nor is this about the RFC. This is about banning people and the reasons behind it.
16:47:45FromDiscord<hamidb80> Araq didn't ban krux, right?
16:47:55FromDiscord<Clyybber> not from IRC; but from the github
16:48:15FromDiscord<dom96> stefantalpalaru: Yes, well I'm afraid this is not how this community will be managed.
16:48:25krux02@hamidb80: he did
16:48:28FromDiscord<hamidb80> In reply to @Clyybber "not from IRC; but": Aha
16:48:31krux02I am banned on github
16:49:08krux02after all, I am still on gitter and discord.
16:50:08krux02@Araq: get ready that I will rub it in that you banned me.
16:50:21FromDiscord<Clyybber> krux02: You are acting just childish now
16:50:55krux02@Clyybber: Then, what do you suggest should I do?
16:51:23stefantalpalaruFork Nim.
16:51:32krux02stefantalpalaru, I already did
16:51:56krux02my PR in Nim were closed by the stale bot
16:52:03FromDiscord<Clyybber> krux02: Either accept it, and stop slinging shit, maybe you'll get unbanned; or > will you apologize for blaming me that I pull the spec out of my ass and it's not worth reading?
16:52:04krux02not reviewed. ready to be merged.
16:52:43krux02@Clyybber: these are the words that I used: http://ix.io/2OXN
16:53:20krux02And I told you that I had a discussion with araq personally about this change.
16:53:33krux02I told his as clearly as possible that it is a bad idea.
16:53:50krux02It was a personal discussion on voice chat.
16:53:57krux02then He ignored me.
16:54:06krux02and changed the spec
16:54:15krux02and then pointed to the spec and said read it
16:54:23krux02WTF
16:54:29FromGitter<Araq> and then you never understood it...
16:54:32stefantalpalaruYou guys should do a rap battle.
16:54:43FromDiscord<Clyybber> stefantalpalaru: lol
16:55:35PMunch@dom96, obviously, I was agreeing with stefantalpalaru that Araq and krux02 could take this discussion somewhere more private and not work this out in a public forum while other users where trying to get help
16:56:07FromDiscord<dom96> PMunch: huh, doesn't look that way to me https://irclogs.nim-lang.org/10-02-2021.html#16:07:45
16:56:23PMunchI was agreeing to his second part, not the first
16:56:40FromDiscord<dom96> I see
16:56:47FromDiscord<dom96> I wouldn't say that was obvious šŸ™‚
16:56:48PMunch(Didn't open that link, my computer is a bit loaded at the moment and I'm afraid that it will crash if FF starts)
16:57:05PMunchBut I assume it was the comment I made where I just said "agreed" or something like that
16:57:31FromDiscord<Clyybber> In reply to @PMunch "(Didn't open that link,": lol, another "how many args can a function have" style experiment?
16:57:46PMunchHaha, no I'm playing modded KSP
16:57:51FromDiscord<Clyybber> haha
16:58:19PMunchAnd for some reason it just tanked my performance while only using about a third of my CPU and half my RAM..
16:58:41stefantalpalaruDoes it phone home?
16:59:28*rockcavera quit (Remote host closed the connection)
17:00:41krux02@Araq: The point is, I don't care about a spec that just represents your opinion of the time when you were writing it instead of clear technicaly specifications.
17:01:12FromGitter<Araq> you cannot apologize, I cannot unban you. it's pretty simple really.
17:02:18krux02Sorry that I pushed your buttons and made you ban me
17:03:50krux02@Araq, do you unban me now?
17:05:32FromGitter<Araq> it doesn't feel like an apology.
17:06:28FromDiscord<reilly> Just stumbled across this thing: https://github.com/jart/cosmopolitan Out of curiosity, is this something that could be made compatible with Nim? That'd be pretty neat.
17:06:56FromDiscord<Rika> its possible but i wouldnt recommend using it
17:07:00FromDiscord<Rika> its very hacky imo
17:07:42FromDiscord<reilly> Immediately after asking this I realized that of course you could, w/ the generated C code in nimcache. I'm sure it would be hacky though, just food for thought.
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17:10:57FromDiscord<JSGRANT> Uh, the logo for that is literally ... https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/809109158774964284/honeybadger.png
17:10:58FromDiscord<JSGRANT> LOOOOOOOOOOOOL
17:11:07*hyiltiz quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
17:11:27FromDiscord<dom96> omg is that our mascot
17:11:56FromDiscord<JSGRANT> On a similar note; My Honeybadger 'plush' is coming today. Should be on my bookshelf by tonight. :^)
17:12:15PMunch@JSGRANT, have you made a crown for it?
17:12:25krux02it looks better than the go mascot.
17:12:42krux02and better than the crown
17:12:59FromDiscord<JSGRANT> PMunch: Trying to think how to do it; Was looking online for a premade one but they all stink. lol
17:13:27FromDiscord<JSGRANT> Need to just get like some yellow fabric and cut it out myself self.
17:13:34PMunchI made a 3D model for printing at some point
17:14:23FromDiscord<JSGRANT> If there's ever an excuse to shell out a few thousand for a 3d-printer... <_< >_>
17:14:41FromDiscord<JSGRANT> Wow thanks Discord; Underscores are nix'd lol
17:15:04FromDiscord<JSGRANT> \shifting look back and forth \ (?)
17:15:21FromDiscord<JSGRANT> At least it respects escapes
17:15:42krux02nix'd ?
17:15:50FromDiscord<JSGRANT> nyx'd?
17:15:52FromDiscord<JSGRANT> killed
17:15:55FromDiscord<JSGRANT> axed
17:16:31krux02let me try underscores ___
17:17:52FromDiscord<reilly> In case you didn't already know, you can get around that with a backslash. \_\_hello\_\_ = `\hello`
17:18:06FromDiscord<no name fits> is there a built-in way to convert a string to a set[char] or am I misunderstanding something?
17:18:36FromDiscord<no name fits> or if there a way to use char slice to init a HashSet?
17:18:39FromDiscord<haxscramper> In reply to @no name fits "is there a built-in": ON devel https://nim-lang.github.io/Nim/setutils.html
17:18:42FromDiscord<haxscramper> (edit) "ON" => "On"
17:18:58FromDiscord<no name fits> Am I expected to use the devel?
17:19:02FromDiscord<haxscramper> No
17:19:14FromDiscord<no name fits> Sorry if my questions are dumb
17:19:25FromDiscord<haxscramper> But in general it is a three-line implementation, so you can just use it
17:19:30FromDiscord<JSGRANT> Also I like the crown; Made a lil man just yesterday with that idea in mind (have been experimenting with the idea of messing around with an OS again ... since @Ardek casually mentioned it the other day; I really can't help myself...) https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/809111312943939604/minmo.png
17:19:33FromDiscord<no name fits> alrighty
17:19:39FromDiscord<exelotl> In reply to @JSGRANT "Uh, the logo for": honestly if our honeybadger looked like that and not like "i am going to kick down your door and devour you alive" I would be in full support of the honeybadger
17:19:42FromDiscord<JSGRANT> Supposed to look like an upside crown with kirby-like sitting feet
17:19:49FromDiscord<Yardanico> @exelotl that's how it should look like :P
17:19:51FromDiscord<Yardanico> :nimRawr:
17:20:16FromDiscord<Solitude> :nimRawr: šŸ”Ŗ go programmer spotted
17:20:27FromDiscord<Yardanico> :nimAngry:
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17:21:52FromDiscord<JSGRANT> I still don't exactly get the 'reasoning' behind the honeybadger -- if it even needs any; lol Is it that they have the tendency to "go after" animals much bigger than them?
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17:22:17FromDiscord<arne> it is hip
17:23:28FromDiscord<JSGRANT> @arne I mean it was a meme; but like 10 or-so years ago. Don't know if I'd exactly call it a hip / relevant animal anymore ... unless I'm missing something? lol
17:24:01FromDiscord<mratsim> It was supposed to be a lion >_>
17:25:01Clonkk[m]Why not go for a kingbird if you want something related to a crown ?
17:25:37FromDiscord<JSGRANT> @mratsim Well it's not like it's "too late" or anything; Wouldn't exactly say that the honeybadger is a universally loved / accepted symbol in the community or anything. loool When I asked the other day about it (regarding getting one for my bookshelf) someone was like "... uh I guess the honeybadger still?" loool
17:26:33FromDiscord<Rika> barely anyone knows about the honeybadger i feel
17:26:40FromDiscord<Yardanico> yes it was just a concept
17:27:39FromDiscord<JSGRANT> I don't even mind the honeybadger as a mascot; Agree that the popular one is "way too aggressive" like I've seen posted about it in various places -- they're supposed to be borderline cutesy not WE'RE GOING TO F YOUR SH-- UP!!!
17:28:13FromDiscord<Yardanico> it's at least 6 years old, probably more
17:28:15FromDiscord<Yardanico> https://github.com/nim-lang/assets/blob/68c7559921fc98d47d96f0bd1d446e27d53bd8c4/Art/mascot.svg
17:29:26FromDiscord<JSGRANT> @Yardanico In the wild a HoneyBadger only lives 7-8 years. His time is coming ...
17:29:28FromDiscord<JSGRANT> ;_;
17:30:18FromDiscord<JSGRANT> If it ever becomes a Lion ... is his name ... going to be ... Nimba ?
17:30:19FromDiscord<hamidb80> In reply to @krux02 "<@757977596066660455>, do you unban": Any progress?
17:30:54FromDiscord<mratsim> In reply to @hamidb80 "Any progress?": Discord replies don't work across IRC/Matrix/Gitter
17:32:09FromDiscord<Yardanico> they work in IRC
17:32:18FromDiscord<Yardanico> pls don't spread misinformation :P
17:32:29FromDiscord<Solitude> or you might get banned
17:32:33FromDiscord<Yardanico> and because they work in IRC, they work in Gitter
17:32:38FromDiscord<Yardanico> not sure about matrix
17:32:44FromDiscord<JSGRANT> @Yardanico Do they just repost the original message in quotes or something?
17:32:50FromDiscord<Yardanico> there's a slight bug for now, but they work https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/809114665698197525/unknown.png
17:32:52FromDiscord<Yardanico> @JSGRANT context
17:32:58FromDiscord<Yardanico> first 4 words at max
17:33:14FromDiscord<JSGRANT> Ah, not ideal but fair I guess to avoid irc spam
17:33:17FromDiscord<Yardanico> also they're italicized
17:33:26FromDiscord<Yardanico> i mean the "in reply to" thing
17:33:42leorizeYardanico: it does work but it won't be rendered as a native reply in matrix
17:33:43ForumUpdaterBotNew thread by Mantielero: Fmusdk: porting from C to nim - looking for advice, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/7496
17:34:05FromDiscord<Yardanico> @leorize well we use t2bot for matrix, no?
17:34:09FromDiscord<Yardanico> doesn't it support replies? :P
17:34:23FromDiscord<Yardanico> if you're talking about the freenode matrix bridge then yeah, it won't be native
17:34:50leorizewe only use t2bot for #nim-science and #nim-test :P
17:34:56FromDiscord<Yardanico> oh
17:34:57FromDiscord<mratsim> oh I wasn't aware they worked
17:35:04FromDiscord<Yardanico> yeah I added support for them recently
17:35:10FromDiscord<Yardanico> before they just posted the reply message itself
17:35:13FromDiscord<mratsim> you don't spread information at all šŸ˜‰
17:36:10krux02@hamidb80: replies on in IRC to dicord users are ugly, and here: https://imgur.com/L2XATUr.png
17:36:13leorizeas much as I hate to say it, not spreading information is kind of a Nim thing :P
17:36:28leorizefor example, only now I realize that fusion/astdsl is a thing and it's super cool
17:37:10FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> Whatā€™s astdsl ?
17:37:19FromDiscord<mratsim> something cool
17:37:26FromDiscord<mratsim> https://tenor.com/view/smooth-so-smooth-easy-no-problem-hes-good-gif-15610930
17:37:30FromDiscord<JSGRANT> https://nim-lang.github.io/fusion/src/fusion/astdsl.html
17:37:39leorizekarax-like API to build AST
17:38:03FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> judging by how fast everyone responded itā€™s got to be cool lol!
17:38:13FromDiscord<mratsim> never used it
17:38:20FromDiscord<mratsim> "Save trees" they say
17:38:22FromDiscord<Yardanico> so it's a macroutils clone? :P
17:38:24krux02looks like a new `quote`
17:38:38FromDiscord<Yardanico> idk if you can do loops with macroutils though
17:38:47FromDiscord<JSGRANT> dumpLisp ?
17:38:52FromDiscord<JSGRANT> https://tenor.com/view/vince-mc-mahon-falling-in-chair-surprised-wwe-gif-7810711
17:40:13FromDiscord<JSGRANT> Honestly at minimum 1/3rd of my interest in Nim is the metaprogramming-magic; Love to see it
17:42:15FromDiscord<hamidb80> In reply to @JSGRANT "Honestly at minimum 1/3rd": Yeah. Meta programming in Nim is a hot topic
17:43:01FromDiscord<JSGRANT> @hamidb80 Hot-topic as-in popular / interesting or controversial ?
17:43:37FromDiscord<JSGRANT> In some ways I see Nim as the Anti-Go
17:43:37FromDiscord<hamidb80> In reply to @JSGRANT "<@!745944009918251010> Hot-topic as-in popular": I think all of them šŸ˜ƒ
17:43:50FromDiscord<haxscramper> In reply to @JSGRANT "<@!745944009918251010> Hot-topic as-in popular": Absolutely everything uses metaprogramming
17:43:58FromDiscord<JSGRANT> In reply to @JSGRANT "In some ways I": And to be clear (I think that's a good thing).
17:44:26FromDiscord<konsumlamm> In reply to @JSGRANT "In some ways I": every language with some features can be seen as an anti-go
17:45:18FromDiscord<hamidb80> In reply to @JSGRANT "And to be clear": Programming is about thinking, not writing
17:45:28leorizeto demonstrate the coolness of astdsl, here's the rewrite of that macro I wrote for @mattrp: from https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OUU to https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OYI
17:45:37FromDiscord<hamidb80> Macros can reduce a lot of boilerplates
17:46:08FromDiscord<Yardanico> reply spam :D https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/809118012380151848/unknown.png
17:46:31FromDiscord<JSGRANT> In reply to @Yardanico "reply spam :D": DYING loooool
17:46:32FromDiscord<Yardanico> hehe https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/809118114678833223/unknown.png
17:46:36FromDiscord<JSGRANT> Didn't even notice tbh
17:47:12FromDiscord<JSGRANT> @hamidb80 Also eh to be fair, it's about both; You don't want to get so abstracted that it's actually hard to reason about what's happening. "Great power; Great responsibility yadda yadda yadda" but still
17:47:19FromDiscord<JSGRANT> Much rather have it as an option than not
17:49:21FromDiscord<JSGRANT> @Yardanico On the irc variant -- if you only looked at the first-half of those messages; You'd just assume I said something very controversial loool
17:49:40FromDiscord<JSGRANT> In reply to @JSGRANT ... In reply to @JSGRANT ... In reply to @JSGRANT ... In reply to @JSGRANT ... In reply to @JSGRANT ...
17:50:30saem@Araq: I'll look again tonight hopefully, unless timothee and xfly are still stuck on nimsuggest tests. But your response was a little ambiguous, I'm presuming you could go either way, just want nkError sooner than later, which makes sense. I think I was assuming the tests to be a little more inflexible than I should have and instead I should ask myself does the message as tested really help the user and explain the issue or
17:50:31saemnot. Then see about getting it green.
17:51:52FromDiscord<no name fits> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OYN
17:52:11FromDiscord<haxscramper> In reply to @Yardanico "hehe": Will you filter out discord ids in later vesions of a bridge?
17:52:30FromDiscord<Clyybber> @no name fits I think the version without toHashSet is best, should also be the fastest
17:52:36leorize@no name fits: it's a bit too heavyweight
17:52:52FromDiscord<no name fits> alrighty
17:53:08leorizeinstead, create a set containing the entire alphabet, then iterate through the string, excluding characters in the string from the set
17:53:11FromDiscord<Yardanico> @haxscramper wdym?
17:53:41FromDiscord<no name fits> In reply to @leorize "instead, create a set": Yeah that was my initial solution šŸ™‚ I'll go back to what I had before
17:53:50FromDiscord<haxscramper> In reply to @Yardanico "<@608382355454951435> wdym?": https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/809119952245358652/unknown.png
17:53:51FromDiscord<Hi02Hi> Hi. new here. @no name fits if the hashsets are equal, cant you just return input == alphabet ?
17:54:11FromDiscord<Hi02Hi> (edit) "input" => "input.toSet" | "alphabet" => "alphabet.toSet"
17:54:17FromDiscord<Yardanico> If you mean the pings being displayed as IDs - raw message text in Discord is like that, for normal messages I handle that but in replies I just take the original message's content
17:54:37FromDiscord<Yardanico> I have it in the GitHub issues list
17:54:39FromDiscord<no name fits> In reply to @Hi02Hi "Hi. new here. <@!199678698499080192>": It might also contain numerics, which I'm supposed to ignore, so I'm not sure
17:55:55FromDiscord<Hi02Hi> ahh
17:57:32FromDiscord<no name fits> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OYP
17:58:01FromDiscord<Hi02Hi> welcome
17:58:37FromDiscord<Hi02Hi> (edit) "welcome" => "welcome. didn't help much though"
17:58:52PMunch@Yardanico, I think astdsl came out right about the same time as macroutils
17:58:56FromGitter<Araq> saem: some of the failing tests cases for nkError might indicate a design problem with nkError
17:59:02PMunchThey're similar, but a slightly different approach
18:00:31leorize@no name fits: a slightly more performant version for you: https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OYS
18:00:33FromDiscord<Yardanico> Oh, okay, never heard of astdsl until today so I assumed that it was pretty new :)
18:00:50PMunchNot as far as I remember
18:00:58PMunchI might be wrong of course
18:01:29leorizethis is because `toLower(string)` will first create a new string with all the character lowercased, which involves an another loop
18:01:51leorize@Yardanico: have you heard of fusion/matching then? :p
18:02:27FromDiscord<Yardanico> yes
18:02:57leorizeeven after we have fusion, we still don't makes things more discoverable
18:02:57*leorize sighs
18:09:25saem@Araq: gotcha, so I should keep that in mind as I go and discuss/rework along the way.
18:14:34FromDiscord<mratsim> @leorize, having multidocs search would help (and no theindex is not discoverable either)
18:14:40FromDiscord<no name fits> In reply to @leorize "@no name fits: a": oh thanks!
18:15:24FromDiscord<Daniel> ot: rust got detached from Mozilla
18:15:44FromDiscord<Rika> woah what really? what happened? was it the layoffs
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18:16:02FromDiscord<no name fits> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OYZ
18:16:09leorizeI think it's just that rust is no longer mozilla's rust, right?
18:16:16FromDiscord<haxscramper> In reply to @mratsim "<@695851404832538684>, having multidocs search": Ideally something like https://hoogle.haskell.org/
18:16:19leorizeand probably mozilla remains a funding source
18:17:25FromDiscord<hamidb80> Can anyone explain me what a "scaffold" is exacly? ā†µI couldn't find any translation for it in dictionary
18:17:27leorize@no name fits: we have `..<` to replace your `input.len - 1` :)
18:17:50FromDiscord<haxscramper> In reply to @no name fits "So I did another": sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OZ0
18:17:52FromDiscord<haxscramper> To avoid repeating `result[i]` all ove
18:18:06FromDiscord<haxscramper> In reply to @leorize "@no name fits: we": And either this, or `input.high`
18:18:13FromDiscord<no name fits> oh I totally forgot the case expression was a thing :NotLikeThis:
18:18:15FromDiscord<Hi02Hi> @no name fits looks fine, but one style note i have is that on L3, input.len - 1 can be replaced with input.high
18:18:36FromDiscord<no name fits> thanks guys!
18:21:33FromDiscord<mratsim> or you create a mapping, `const Map = [dna.G: rna.C, dna.C, rna.G, dna.T, rna.A, dna.A, rna.U]`
18:21:44FromDiscord<mratsim> (edit) "dna.C," => "dna.C:" | "dna.T," => "dna.T:" | "dna.A," => "dna.A:"
18:21:49FromGitter<haxscramper> @Araq you said that "(final official release is one week from now)" (https://irclogs.nim-lang.org/10-02-2021.html#13:48:27) - this was about nim correct?
18:22:42FromDiscord<Hi02Hi> @mratsim is there a way to error out if its unrecognized?
18:23:02FromDiscord<mratsim> In reply to @Hi02Hi "<@!570268431522201601> is there a": it will
18:23:35FromDiscord<Hi02Hi> like a custom error message or something?
18:24:58FromDiscord<mratsim> In reply to @Hi02Hi "like a custom error": The compiler will complain that you are using undefined values
18:25:03FromDiscord<mratsim> this is an enum syntax
18:25:10FromDiscord<Hi02Hi> ok
18:25:36FromGitter<Araq> @haxscramper yes but these are merely bugfix releases
18:25:46FromGitter<Araq> 1) 6 is a long time away :-/
18:26:39FromDiscord<haxscramper> Yes, but I still need to make sure my fusion PR is ready & all
18:27:06FromDiscord<haxscramper> And article for it is already written etc. so maybe it might look as something more than just patch release
18:27:25FromDiscord<haxscramper> Like with ARC - new features + article etc.
18:28:24FromDiscord<haxscramper> Python got pattern matching RFC merged recently
18:30:08stefantalpalaru@Araq, I don't know if you still check the super-secret #nim-testers channel, but I need a 1.2.10 release for Nimbus-eth2. Please do the needful.
18:30:29FromGitter<Araq> what shall it contain?
18:30:37stefantalpalaruversion-1-2 HEAd.
18:30:58FromGitter<Araq> seen https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/7494 ?
18:31:13FromDiscord<mratsim> "Please do the needful", ugh, the only time I heard this was from lazy support provided by Indian company.
18:32:07stefantalpalaruNo, but that commit is the same as HEAD, so it's perfectly fine for me. I already tested that.
18:33:16FromGitter<Araq> ok, so just to be really clear: our release candidate is what you need? the RC will turn into 1.2.10 as Miran is on holidays
18:33:26stefantalpalaruCorrect.
18:34:37FromGitter<Araq> alright
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18:55:30FromDiscord<no name fits> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2OZd
18:55:39FromDiscord<no name fits> Looks fine?
18:56:21FromDiscord<no name fits> And yeah it's just supposed to return the number of errors
18:57:57FromDiscord<haxscramper> Looks good to me
18:59:36FromDiscord<no name fits> Yay! <:pepo_hype:470228232164343808>
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19:07:09FromDiscord<Daniel> In reply to @leorize "I think it's just": indeed
19:10:07FromDiscord<no name fits> there's hope for me yet
19:28:42FromDiscord<CodeHz> nim fusion's document says it will raise MatchError on failure, but actually it doesn't raise... https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/809143822957150269/unknown.png
19:30:47FromDiscord<CodeHz> And leaves an unused variable https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/809144346531594260/unknown.png
19:30:59FromGitter<Araq> @haxscramper can you please update fusion to use the new `case` macro syntax?
19:33:43FromDiscord<CodeHz> and when not use case macro, got many unused variables (it seems to be incorrected result... https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/809145088625213471/unknown.png
19:34:00FromDiscord<haxscramper> @CodeHz all fixed in follow-up PR
19:34:05FromDiscord<haxscramper> https://github.com/nim-lang/fusion/pull/61/files#diff-33abcca7f03798f7fd369f34051711499dee90cea8d05859cd933d31ce115f09R2026 - test for raises
19:34:39FromDiscord<CodeHz> In reply to @haxscramper "<@!765817034944020521> all fixed in": ok
19:34:43FromDiscord<haxscramper> @Araq I added ``macro `case`()`` couple of days ago
19:34:59FromGitter<Araq> I didn't see the PR. did I miss it?
19:35:20FromDiscord<haxscramper> https://github.com/nim-lang/fusion/pull/61/commits/c66b8553dd7eadb6942aa2c97da1155288df4680
19:35:37FromDiscord<haxscramper> @hlaaftana commented on that one and I pushed fix right after
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21:08:07FromDiscord<mratsim> F
21:14:35FromDiscord<exelotl> W
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22:02:28FromGitter<Araq> N
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22:23:14FromDiscord<carpal> what do you use as text editor for nim=
22:23:15FromDiscord<carpal> (edit) "nim=" => "nim?"
22:23:39FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> intellij, the most popular one is vscode
22:24:14FromDiscord<carpal> I tried intellij too, but the nim plug in for i. works bad
22:25:30FromDiscord<carpal> I always used vscode, but the extension in not very good, but acacceptable
22:26:03FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> did you try the ""official"" one?
22:26:11FromDiscord<carpal> yes
22:26:53FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> its still very new, i hope it will become a good option in the future
22:27:16FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> the next most used editor is vim iirc
22:27:36FromDiscord<carpal> for example: when I press . and I write a proc name to use a method, this does not appear https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/809188847987982426/unknown.png
22:27:46FromDiscord<carpal> this popup I mean
22:28:14FromDiscord<dk> I'm afraid vscode is one of the best we have
22:28:19FromDiscord<dk> I mean, the extension
22:28:22FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> yet
22:28:37FromDiscord<carpal> if I call the proc as an instance one, the popup will not appear https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/809189105996660857/unknown.png
22:28:42FromDiscord<dk> I heard people saying nvim's nim extension is good
22:28:59FromDiscord<Recruit_main707> if only my neovim didnt crash more than i write
22:29:01FromDiscord<carpal> In reply to @dk "I'm afraid vscode is": yes yes, not bad, but very slow on big projects
22:29:02FromDiscord<dk> From my experience kakoune has problems with nim (the lsp)
22:29:16FromDiscord<dk> you need to kill nimsuggest processes from time to time
22:29:29FromDiscord<dk> if they take more than 0% cpu, they're propably stuck
22:30:21FromDiscord<carpal> but I need nimsuggest
22:30:33FromDiscord<dk> it should start again
22:30:53FromDiscord<dk> I usually restart the editor just to be sure
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22:31:52FromDiscord<dk> the tooling situation is bad but the language makes up for it
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22:56:09FromDiscord<SneakyBaguette> In reply to @dk "I heard people saying": Indeed. I use alaviss/nim.nvim extension with NimLSP and I don't have any issue
22:57:42FromDiscord<SneakyBaguette> Since it's neovim, even if nimsuggest gets stuck restarting is almost instant
23:00:27FromDiscord<slymilano> Hey ya'll my asyncCheck's aren't running anymore. šŸ˜¦ I'm on latest Nim and this bug happened last year in October as well. I'm using Prologue, and if I comment out prologue's app.run() the asyncChecks function as intended. I'm probably making a dumb mistake, any pointers? https://github.com/sergiotapia/torrentinim/blob/master/src/torrentinim.nim#L31
23:01:35FromDiscord<slymilano> My intent with asyncCheck is to spin up crawlers for every website source we're pulling data from, then after that fire Prologue's app.run() to get the web api running.
23:02:42FromGitter<Araq> please also ask on Prologue's issue tracker
23:02:54FromDiscord<slymilano> thank you will do
23:03:34FromDiscord<slymilano> https://github.com/planety/prologue/issues/68
23:03:41FromDiscord<slymilano> this might help trying now!
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23:10:15FromDiscord<slymilano> @Araq Thank you for your suggestion, this fixed the issue. However I'm not sure what the difference between usesStdlib and usestd is. They both seem equivalent. https://github.com/sergiotapia/torrentinim/commit/9b5b41ce65510807b0c7f00c0ee3dcbdc454fa77
23:12:31FromDiscord<konsumlamm> for runnableExamples in the random module, would it be acceptable to just keep echo?
23:12:37FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> @slymilano Do you plan on adopting a similar API to jackett?
23:13:00FromDiscord<slymilano> Yes sir, working on that after I land sonarr/radarr compatible API
23:13:25FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> nice Iā€™m excited
23:13:56FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> Jackett has been failing me recently as an indexer so Iā€™m excited
23:14:59FromDiscord<slymilano> Nice I couldnt do it without this language, i really enjoy working with nim, very pure. like i'm working with my hands and carving out something sharp and explicit hard to explain
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23:43:03FromDiscord<neow> why is the syntax for creating instances of closure iterators this https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/809207834952728576/unknown.png
23:45:11FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> You mean why does it return 0 when done?
23:45:31FromDiscord<neow> nope, why does `var b = a` create a new "instance" of the iterator
23:45:42FromDiscord<neow> why is it not `var b = a()`
23:46:13FromDiscord<neow> or why can I not `echo a()`
23:46:59FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Why would you do `var b = a()`
23:47:14FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> You are not invoking `a` there you're saying b is whatever a is
23:47:23FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> It's the same thing with pointer procedures
23:47:30FromDiscord<neow> the same reason why I'd `items(whateverSequence)`
23:47:46FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Except items takes a parameter
23:48:45FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I dont know why it is the way, but it seems sensible since you're not unrolling the iterator like you are with items and the like
23:48:59FromDiscord<neow> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/809209327985885204/unknown.png
23:49:02FromDiscord<neow> this does not compile
23:49:25FromDiscord<neow> attempting to call routine: 'a' ... of kind 'iterator'
23:49:27FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> And it shouldnt since you're expected to provide adder with each invoke of the closure
23:49:56FromDiscord<neow> hmm
23:50:00FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> non closure iterators are not functions, they're fancy templates
23:50:15FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Atleast as i understand them
23:51:51FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> Closure iterators are resumable functions and so one has to provide the arguments to every call
23:52:15FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> And you do the same for normal iterators
23:52:18FromDiscord<neow> I still don't understand why I need to "copy" it to a new variable or create an "instance" with such a weird syntax
23:52:30FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> Cause it's basically a pointer function
23:53:09FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> @neow the syntax is really weird but you'll want to wrap your closure iterator in a proc to pass arguments once
23:53:37FromDiscord<neow> In reply to @Avatarfighter "<@!726113081947717734> the syntax is": yes I figured that's possible
23:53:57FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> I mean it's identical to what you'd do with a pointer proc so i dont see how it's weird https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=2P0A
23:54:06FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> I'm getting all my info from this btw <https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#closures-creating-closures-in-loops>
23:54:17FromDiscord<neow> In reply to @ElegantBeef "I mean it's identical": because you can call the original function as well
23:54:20FromDiscord<Avatarfighter> Its really weird behavior though I will admit I wouldn't have expected this to be honest
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23:57:43FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> It'd be giving a global state to them which is weirder to me
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23:58:08FromDiscord<neow> the semantics is fine, I'm complaining about the syntax
23:58:17FromDiscord<neow> but whatever it's just syntax I can get used to it
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23:58:28FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> ~~I dont see an issue with the syntax~~
23:58:38FromDiscord<ElegantBeef> And you havent really explained the issue with it