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| 00:38:06 | Demos | how is scope for converters handled |
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| 00:50:36 | Demos | Also c2nim is getting really fantastic |
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| 01:26:16 | Demos | just updated my directX wrapper to include Direct3D 12 support! |
| 01:26:18 | Demos | yay! |
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| 02:04:07 | Varriount | Araq: I'm working on the wrapper. |
| 02:04:27 | Varriount | Araq: It won't include COM types though. That will be a bit harder to handle |
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| 03:09:22 | Demos_ | Varriount, how much do you know about COM |
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| 03:18:30 | nevercast | Good afternoon! :) When should I be aware of the GC and when should I forget it exists? Also when should I use pointers and when should I use nim's typing? |
| 03:19:01 | nevercast | I'm guessing using 'var' in a proc argument signature allows it to be passed by value and still set, where 'ref' is pass by reference. |
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| 03:21:05 | def- | nevercast: if you need 100% performance you should be aware of the GC, otherwise not? |
| 03:21:44 | def- | you can inspect the C code and see that for a 'var' argument a pointer is passed |
| 03:23:14 | nevercast | What are the differences then between var and ref ? |
| 03:24:54 | Demos_ | var is like pass by reference in c++ |
| 03:25:20 | Xe | is it possible for a nimble project to point to a subdirectory in a git repo? |
| 03:25:25 | Demos_ | passing without var lets the compiler choose const ref or value |
| 03:25:44 | Demos_ | ref and ptr are like pointers, and they are values |
| 03:25:44 | def- | Xe: point? |
| 03:26:05 | nevercast | So var passes by reference and abstracts that |
| 03:26:08 | Demos_ | for example you can alias easily and = copys the reference not the data itself |
| 03:26:11 | nevercast | ref actually passes the int |
| 03:26:21 | Xe | def-: foorepo/client/nim points to the nim code |
| 03:26:21 | nevercast | (address) |
| 03:26:33 | Demos_ | ref int passes a pointer to an int |
| 03:26:46 | Demos_ | like int* in c++ but it's gc'd |
| 03:27:01 | Demos_ | the only difference between ptr and ref is that ref is gc'd while ptr is not |
| 03:27:20 | def- | Xe: i don't understand what "point" means in this case. You can set srcDir = "client/nim" |
| 03:27:26 | Xe | ah |
| 03:27:28 | Xe | i see |
| 03:27:45 | Demos_ | if you want to pass "by value" and modify the parameter in your function just write var foo = foo as the first line of your proc |
| 03:27:53 | Demos_ | that'll make a copy that you can write to |
| 03:28:42 | nevercast | So I should only use ptr when dealing with 'native' (C) objects. Use ref for any Nim objects that need pass-by-reference. |
| 03:28:56 | Demos_ | no, use var to get pass by reference |
| 03:28:57 | nevercast | Leave var out in other cases and the compiler will select the best option between var or const. |
| 03:29:01 | Demos_ | use ref to pass a reference |
| 03:29:08 | Demos_ | const is something different in nim |
| 03:29:18 | nevercast | Right, ref == address, var == pass by ref. |
| 03:29:23 | Demos_ | yeah |
| 03:29:25 | Xe | def-: what about multiple nimble projects per repo? |
| 03:29:40 | nevercast | const isn't the same as C const ? |
| 03:29:53 | Demos_ | not really |
| 03:30:03 | Demos_ | you can't use it as a qualifier on a parameter |
| 03:30:44 | Demos_ | in nim it says the value is computed at compile time |
| 03:30:49 | def- | Xe: you can have two .nimble files i guess |
| 03:30:58 | Demos_ | (kinda similar to what C's const does at file scope but not qute the same) |
| 03:31:13 | nevercast | let is const similar yes? Runtime computed? |
| 03:31:22 | Demos_ | yeah, assigned to once |
| 03:31:36 | nevercast | Similar to 'readonly' or 'final' in other languages. |
| 03:31:47 | Demos_ | right |
| 03:32:09 | Demos_ | the default way parameters are passed is a little like "const ref" but not quite |
| 03:32:38 | Demos_ | in particular you can't get the address of a parameter passed in the default way |
| 03:32:53 | Demos_ | since it could be a pointer or a "real value" |
| 03:33:15 | nevercast | Object and Value type are abstracted in nim? |
| 03:33:18 | nevercast | When passed. |
| 03:37:17 | Demos_ | yes. The compiler gets to decide |
| 03:38:08 | Demos_ | this is actually a really nice bit of design, since in c/c++ (esp C because of . vs ->) it's really just busywork |
| 03:43:36 | nevercast | Yes it's a common design in other OOP languages, but I have come to learn all their caveats. I know what I can and cannot expect in other languages. Not sure what to expect in Nim |
| 03:43:55 | nevercast | Since the language looks high-level but is abstracted low level with some run-time checks. |
| 03:48:37 | nevercast | Structures can be read from pointers by casting, can I expect something similar in Nim? Taking a string and returning a struct for example? |
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| 04:31:23 | Demos_ | nevercast, what? |
| 04:32:19 | Demos_ | you can't just cast a string to some structure. You can parse it, or use nim's dot operator overload feature to parse it on the fly |
| 04:32:45 | Demos_ | I'm going to sleep though |
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| 04:36:07 | nevercast | Thanks Demos_ for your help |
| 04:36:12 | nevercast | Oh.. damn |
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| 07:48:28 | Varriount | Araq: Merging all the windows header output by my webcrawler results in a 20Mb file |
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| 11:30:54 | Varriount | Araq: c2nim/the compiler needs to use 64-bit integers for line numbers. I'm getting negative lines |
| 11:31:33 | Araq | well right now it uses int16 :P |
| 11:31:40 | Varriount | -_- |
| 11:31:53 | Araq | so it seems more like it needs int32s |
| 11:32:14 | Varriount | I'm massaging the output data in windows.h, which is combined from several other header files. |
| 11:32:30 | Araq | but if your file has more than 32K lines, it should be split up |
| 11:32:43 | Varriount | It's a 56868 line file. |
| 11:33:31 | Araq | meh, that's just too big anyway |
| 11:33:40 | Araq | windows.nim sucks because it's so big |
| 11:33:54 | Araq | and you gonna replace it with something bigger? |
| 11:34:22 | Varriount | Araq: Well, this *is* a wrapper for a large portion of the Windows API |
| 11:34:37 | Varriount | I mean, there's around 700 output files. |
| 11:35:14 | Araq | well I always thought every header should become a nim file |
| 11:35:33 | Varriount | Most of them are, except that there's a lot of little ones. |
| 11:35:36 | Araq | rather than doing what windows.h does |
| 11:36:19 | Varriount | Araq: I'm not that foolish. If I tried to combine the entire Windows API into one file, the compilation time would probably be increased by a minute or two |
| 11:40:32 | Araq | well I'm not saying you're foolish |
| 11:40:53 | Araq | I'm saying that you need to get rid of this 56K file somehow |
| 11:41:40 | Araq | fixing c2nim the compiler to support more number of lines is not that helpful, you need to split it anyway |
| 11:43:34 | Araq | bbl |
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| 12:15:41 | yglukhov | contributing.rst suggests using "./koch --print html $DEVEL_COMMIT". But that doesn't work. Does anyone know the right way? |
| 12:16:55 | reactormonk | yglukhov, that's not good... what do you wanna do? |
| 12:17:23 | yglukhov | I want to see the difference in test results after my changes to nim |
| 12:17:42 | reactormonk | did you run the test results earlier? |
| 12:17:46 | reactormonk | ehh tests |
| 12:18:28 | yglukhov | yes, normally i do koch test > before.log; checkout mybranch; koch test > after.log; diff before.log after.log |
| 12:18:40 | yglukhov | this time i wanted to follow contributors guideline |
| 12:19:42 | yglukhov | and turns out it doesn't work that way |
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| 13:00:02 | Varriount | Araq: Any particular reason WideCStrings aren't just replaced with strings and in-place conversions? |
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| 13:22:28 | Varriount | Araq: Also, any solution for bit fields? |
| 13:29:29 | EXetoC | manual fiddling? |
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| 13:58:54 | Demos | Varriount: I kinda want to see the in place conversion |
| 13:59:09 | Demos | and what's the problem with bit fields? |
| 14:01:30 | Demos | Varriount: can we wrap windows.h without using {.header.}? (I don't know if we do now). Since nim has modules it should not be too bad |
| 14:01:36 | Demos | as long as it's not included in the C |
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| 15:22:01 | coffeepot | is there any conditions where a finalizer won't run? I'm using new(stuff, finaliserForStuff) but finaliserForStuff doesn't seem to be called |
| 15:22:24 | coffeepot | where stuff = ref object |
| 15:24:37 | Demos | afaik the GC won't run unless memory pressure actually happens |
| 15:24:51 | coffeepot | ah i thought that might be it |
| 15:24:54 | Demos | so the object may never actually be deleted by the GC |
| 15:25:06 | Demos | can you use destructors? (Not sure how they work with GC'd objects) |
| 15:25:34 | coffeepot | so this poses a quandary for me. I wanted to call freehandle for my sql connection handles but doesn't seem like this will work |
| 15:25:53 | Demos | does it have to be a ref? |
| 15:25:56 | coffeepot | are destructors ready to be used? |
| 15:26:01 | Demos | I don't know |
| 15:26:10 | Demos | It's also possible finalizers should always run |
| 15:26:22 | Demos | are handles freed by the OS when the process is destroyed? |
| 15:26:58 | coffeepot | it doesn't have to be a ref, but it does make things easier (for example can pass it as nil as a param and I get ref semantics) |
| 15:27:11 | coffeepot | Hmm I don't know if the handles are freed tbh |
| 15:27:23 | coffeepot | by the os |
| 15:27:40 | Demos | honestly I use refs quite rarely |
| 15:27:58 | Demos | but that's just the kind of programs I write in nim |
| 15:28:00 | r-ku | destructors are not ready for production use. and they work only w/ non-ref objects. |
| 15:28:11 | coffeepot | i always start of with a plain object but sooner or later I'll want the many to one relationship and then it's gotta be ref |
| 15:28:31 | coffeepot | r-ku, thanks - well that's not an option then :) |
| 15:28:39 | Demos | you can take a ref to an object on the stack I think? I'm not sure |
| 15:28:47 | federico3 | any wrapper for http://maxmind.github.io/libmaxminddb/ ? |
| 15:28:59 | r-ku | coffeepot just use finalizers and forget it.. not like you absolutely must have objects freed as soon as they are no longer used |
| 15:29:17 | coffeepot | Demos that... sounds a bit funky |
| 15:29:18 | r-ku | Demos cant do that |
| 15:29:35 | r-ku | you can grab ptr of object on stack though. but its different |
| 15:29:38 | Demos | yeah, I use ptrs for that I guess |
| 15:29:55 | coffeepot | r-ku: it's not the memory I'm concerned about, it's odbc handles that'll need to be freed. Though, I'm not sure if it's super bad if they're not |
| 15:30:14 | r-ku | i see coffeepot, thats very valid concern |
| 15:30:33 | coffeepot | to be fair, the user can always manually call the cleanup procs |
| 15:30:48 | coffeepot | it just would have been cool if it was automatic |
| 15:31:05 | r-ku | dont dump it on user.. :p |
| 15:31:23 | r-ku | maybe there is some gc api that would force garbage collection of object |
| 15:31:29 | r-ku | Araq? ^ |
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| 15:32:15 | r-ku | if not - it would be great candidate for PR :D |
| 15:32:35 | Demos | there is such an API |
| 15:32:36 | coffeepot | I... uh... don't know if that's in my skill range :) |
| 15:32:43 | Demos | I forget the name though |
| 15:32:50 | Demos | do check if the OS will clean them up though |
| 15:33:34 | Demos | and also consider if you want these references cleaned up quickly or not. GC is not good for things that should be released ASAP when they are not needed |
| 15:33:37 | FedeOmoto | GC_fullCollect |
| 15:34:28 | r-ku | sounds like it would collect everything |
| 15:34:32 | r-ku | obviously an overkill |
| 15:34:48 | FedeOmoto | oh, you want to force GC on just one object? |
| 15:34:54 | Demos | lol |
| 15:35:20 | FedeOmoto | GC_unref then? |
| 15:35:38 | coffeepot | hmm well I tried stuffing GC_fullCollect() at the end of the program but my free echo didn't fire either. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong :/ |
| 15:36:24 | coffeepot | FedeOmoto: ideally I want the finalizer to fire at the end of the program without the user needing to worrry |
| 15:37:40 | r-ku | GC_unref removes reference and should only be called when GC_ref was called on same object |
| 15:37:44 | FedeOmoto | what does you finalizer do? |
| 15:38:16 | r-ku | and unreferenced objects are not guaranteed to be garbage-collected immediately, so finalizers not called immediately |
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| 15:38:40 | coffeepot | depending on the state of the connection, it calls: SQLDisconnect and SQLFreeHandle |
| 15:38:47 | FedeOmoto | hmm |
| 15:39:04 | FedeOmoto | but you want to call them at program exit? |
| 15:39:30 | coffeepot | well, when the GC thinks they're done with, or at worst program exit |
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| 15:40:23 | coffeepot | so a user can do: con = newODBCConnection() and do some queries, then when the program exit the free handles are automatically called |
| 15:40:43 | coffeepot | otherwise the user will have to explicitly call con.freeConnection or something at the end |
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| 15:41:15 | FedeOmoto | but... that memory will be automatically reclaimed at program exit... the same for all socket connections that would still alive |
| 15:42:27 | coffeepot | yeah the memory will, but will the odbc handles? Just trying to find out |
| 15:43:34 | FedeOmoto | all active connections will be closed |
| 15:43:49 | coffeepot | hmm how does it know? |
| 15:44:09 | FedeOmoto | the OK knows :) |
| 15:44:25 | FedeOmoto | on the other hand, finalizers work ok for me: |
| 15:44:25 | Demos | OS networking stack keeps track of which sockets are used by which processes |
| 15:44:26 | FedeOmoto | type Stuff = ref object |
| 15:44:26 | FedeOmoto | proc stuffFinalizer(x: Stuff) = echo "finalizer called" |
| 15:44:26 | FedeOmoto | for i in 1 .. 1000: |
| 15:44:26 | FedeOmoto | var stuff: Stuff |
| 15:44:26 | FedeOmoto | new(stuff, stuffFinalizer) |
| 15:44:35 | Demos | sockets are a global resource, hence OS knows |
| 15:44:56 | FedeOmoto | the OK knows = the OS knows |
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| 15:46:05 | coffeepot | hmm, maybe I'm just doing something funky then. Wonder why it's not firing them |
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| 15:59:58 | coffeepot | hmm, FedeOmoto your example above works as expected, but the following code also doesn't call the finaliser. How odd: |
| 15:59:59 | coffeepot | proc testx(c: ODBCConnection) = echo "done" |
| 15:59:59 | coffeepot | for i in 0 .. 100: |
| 15:59:59 | coffeepot | var c: ODBCConnection |
| 15:59:59 | coffeepot | new(c, testx) |
| 16:01:37 | coffeepot | here's my connection object https://gist.github.com/coffeepots/6df999cf37854122a371 |
| 16:01:45 | FedeOmoto | increase 100 to 1000 |
| 16:02:01 | coffeepot | oh ok |
| 16:02:23 | coffeepot | yep, sure enough now the finalizer is called. |
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| 16:03:15 | coffeepot | btw on my gist the finaliser is commented out as i was testing it |
| 16:03:43 | coffeepot | hmm so seems like I'm gonna have to find another mechanism to do the handle freeing |
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| 19:37:59 | Xe | How would I best do URL escaping in nim? |
| 19:39:13 | NimBot | nim-lang/Nim devel ad98877 Yuriy Glukhov [+0 ±1 -0]: Fixed fromSeconds function JS variant |
| 19:39:13 | NimBot | nim-lang/Nim devel 6041025 Dominik Picheta [+0 ±1 -0]: Merge pull request #3206 from yglukhov/patch-1... 2 more lines |
| 19:40:16 | dom96 | Xe: http://nim-lang.org/docs/cgi.html#encodeUrl,string |
| 19:40:38 | Xe | thanks dom96 |
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| 22:13:15 | EXetoC | so Any can be substituted with macros.getType now? |
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| 22:32:48 | EXetoC | maybe not if there's no way to get the size of a type. I can't figure out how to do that |
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| 23:24:06 | EXetoC | just construct a call to it I guess |
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