<< 13-03-2019 >>
00:02:57shashlickIt runs and doesn't crash now? That's a start
00:03:19shashlickOpening Nim recursively will open too many files but worth a try
00:04:00shashlickTry open -r c:\nim\*.nim
00:04:20shashlick-r does nothing for directories since you'd open every single file
00:04:44shashlickRecursive works for file name and wildcards
00:04:55shashlickIt will search recursively and find a match
00:06:07shashlickAraq: I'll try again but using loadLib I wasn't able to get a stack trace even with those flags
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00:06:31FromGitter<gogolxdong> got it, will try, is there plan to add jump to definition?
00:09:03FromGitter<gogolxdong> BTW，I pulled scintilla and nng manually.
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00:13:54shashlickDid the posted build work?
00:14:07shashlickPlan is to add nimlsp and all sorts of things
00:14:25shashlickSky is the limit since Nim makes it so easy
00:14:42shashlickThere isn't even find yet
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00:24:24FromGitter<gogolxdong> yes,it's rolling with highlight.
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01:14:59shashlick@gogolxdong: any other basic feedback?
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03:53:35FromGitter<gogolxdong> hotkey works
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06:10:30FromGitter<gogolxdong> open -r c:/Nim/*.nim works
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06:15:00FromGitter<gogolxdong> after opening C:/Nim/*.nim and closing two .yml files, it stuck.
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07:06:11FromGitter<gogolxdong> Can I peek data from a stream?
07:07:45FromGitter<gogolxdong> Nim/lib/system/io.nim(119) raiseEIO ⏎ Error: unhandled exception: cannot retrieve file position [IOError]
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07:10:07FromGitter<gogolxdong> ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5c88accfd1e7281f091e71da]
07:11:14FromGitter<gogolxdong> trying to catch the first line of ping command in websocket.
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07:14:38FromGitter<gogolxdong> host which cannot ping returns the whole response after a while.
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07:32:44Araqyou cannot "peek" this stream
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09:29:37FromGitter<alehander42> Zetashift pls open issue
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10:34:45sealmoveUhh, after trying to make a nim shell, I appreciated bash. Not really useful to merge context-sensitive syntax in a language like Nim...
10:43:40Araqhttps://github.com/ocornut/imgui this has grown quite a bit, nice to see immediate mode UIs taking off
10:43:55Araqsealmove: "context sensitive syntax"?
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10:44:57sealmoveohh imgui looks nice
10:45:53sealmove@Araq: bash and other shell-languages use context-sensitive grammars, while languages like Nim, Python, C don't
10:46:23sealmovefor shells it means you don't have to typed "" or () when it can be inferred from context
10:46:55sealmovexonsh tries to solve this problem, but introduces a new one... modes :D
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10:47:43AraqI told you how to solve this weeks ago :P
10:47:59sealmovein xonsh you have python-mode and subcommand-mode, and you have to constantly keep in mind where you are (just like vim), and there is still some context-sensitive syntax
10:48:03Araqif it contains '/' it's a path and should be wrapped in ""
10:48:33sealmovewell, I could do some little tricks like that, but it won't get me far...
10:49:03sealmoveafter this project I think it's just a bad idea... languages like Nim aren't useful as a shell
10:49:14Araqyou don't want to get "far", you have as few rules as possible so that it remains easy to understand
10:49:32sealmovehmm
10:49:48sealmoveI think it will still be verbose in most cases, thus unuseful
10:50:19Araqmaybe. Also look at TCL that also tried to solve this problem
10:51:31sealmovenever studied it yet, thanks for the motivation :D
10:55:16sealmovewill also try-out fish. I know the cleverest thing to do is stick to bash, but I find the subject fascinating!
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10:58:48FromGitter<gogolxdong> Is there a list of stream which can be peeked?
11:03:13sealmoveAraq: just curious, what is your background with Python? Have you used it extensively in the past?
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11:11:31iaudfhdshello
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11:31:07Araqsealmove: I used Python quite a bit, yes. why do you ask?
11:32:23sealmovejust curious
11:35:09Araqused matplotlib too, worst lib ever. Mysterious undocumented parameters. in the end I plotted my stuff with SDL and putPixel, took one day.
11:35:49narimiran...and that's why everything in nim is well-documented :D :D
11:36:31sealmove@Araq: I've been there..
11:36:55Araqnarimiran: at least the parameters are *typed* :P
11:37:07narimirantrue that :)
11:39:50Araqgogolxdong: instead of peeking, read from it until you arrive at the required data
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11:53:35FromGitter<gogolxdong> readLine returns the whole response if the peer cannot ping through.
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11:56:23Calinoumany modern Python libraries are typed too
11:56:41Calinouhttps://github.com/python/mypy + https://github.com/python/typeshed
11:56:43FromGitter<gogolxdong> the first line is expected to show up.
11:57:06Calinouinteresting, I stumbled upon https://pyre-check.org/ too
11:57:09narimiranCalinou: many "modern" python stuff is still 2.7
11:57:43narimiranexpecting them to embrace mypy while they're still on 2.7 - i don't think so
11:58:04Calinoua lot of projects are Python 3-only by now
11:58:06Calinouit's not 2013 anymore :)
11:58:28narimirani wish it isn't :D
11:59:11narimirani'm the most surprised that there are *new* projects starting in 2018/2019 using py2! wtf dudes!
11:59:39shashlick@gogolxdong I'll try to reproduce, there are some close bugs
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13:25:49FromGitter<gogolxdong> How to construct Regex in Karax?
13:29:38Araqjstrutils uses some regexes under the hood, have a look
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13:42:37FromGitter<gogolxdong> proc newRegexp(express: cstring): JsObject {.importcpp:"new RegExp(#)".} ⏎ var reg = newRegexp("""/^(\d{1,2}|1\d\d|2[0-4]\d|25[0-5])(\.(\d{1,2}|1\d\d|2[0-4]\d|25[0-5])){3}$/""")
13:43:40FromGitter<gogolxdong> seems cannot construct as the https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Guide/Regular_Expressions
13:45:43FromGitter<gogolxdong> have no idea of constructing a regular expression string literal.
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13:54:53FromGitter<gogolxdong> or cstring to replace the triple quote, but result is not the same with chrome console output.
13:55:01FromGitter<gogolxdong> proc test*(reg:JsObject, value:cstring):bool{.importcpp:"#.test(#)".} ⏎ proc match*(value:cstring, reg:JsObject):cstring{.importcpp:"#.match(#)".}
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14:03:35FromGitter<mratsim> @narimiran, Numpy and Pandas are removing Py2 support at the end of the year, I would be surprised if scientific libraries are still using py2 in the OSS world
14:04:22narimirani know they do. it was about time
14:04:59narimiranit's not like they're ahead of time ;) https://pythonclock.org/
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14:17:59Araqproc newRegexp(express: cstring): JsObject {.importcpp: "new RegExp(#)".}
14:18:22Araqis fine but don't use the // inside your string literal
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18:03:45FromGitter<liquid600pgm> https://github.com/liquid600pgm/rod/commit/873229a68b149083d496dd0e0db8025777144c6f I can't believe I made such a stupid mistake in my parser
18:04:26FromGitter<liquid600pgm> it's good I fixed it, it would certainly be annoying to run into that bug in production
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18:10:10Zevvstupid mistakes in my parser, my day was full of it :)
18:10:38Zevvnah, not really true. I'm quite happy with the progress.
18:11:13Zevvliquid600pgm: If you have time and feel like giving some feedback - I could use some
18:11:59FromGitter<liquid600pgm> sure, can you give me a link to your repo?
18:12:07Zevvhttps://github.com/zevv/npeg
18:12:10FromGitter<liquid600pgm> thanks
18:13:36ZevvThe basics are now there: the PEG syntax is pretty sweet I think; it gets compiled into an intermediate format which allows inspection and optimization, and then it gets compiled to a nim proc that does the parsing. I can now parse 20Mb of json in approx 200msec with the parser in the README
18:13:56FromGitter<liquid600pgm> great!
18:14:00Zevvpassing all of the JSONlint test suites
18:14:06FromGitter<liquid600pgm> I just found a little inconsistency in the readme
18:14:11Zevvtell me
18:14:33FromGitter<liquid600pgm> the atoms section says `[]` is used for the sets, but then you use `{}` in the examples
18:14:45Zevvah, examples are old, fixing right away
18:15:50Zevvfixed
18:16:28ZevvAnyway, I'm not at the point where I'm implementing captures. I can add C(..) in the rules, and everthing in brackets will be captured. Can be nested as well.
18:16:58ZevvThe captures now end up in a seq[string] which is not yet exposed; I'm looking a (or multiple) good API for getting the capture data out.
18:17:47ZevvI want at least be able to create nested captures on the fly: a capture will be a string or an array of captures.
18:17:54FromGitter<liquid600pgm> this https://github.com/zevv/npeg/blob/master/src/npeg.nim#L432 feels pretty unreadable and isn't cross-platform (it won't work on older versions of Windows), I'd change it to use the `terminal` module
18:18:20Zevvoh I'm taking that out, thats debugging code, thanks
18:18:21FromGitter<liquid600pgm> oh wait
18:18:36FromGitter<liquid600pgm> there was a commit that changed the line number
18:18:42FromGitter<liquid600pgm> it's 440 now
18:18:57FromGitter<liquid600pgm> the code feels pretty clean overall, I like it
18:19:00Zevvhehe
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18:19:41Zevvthanks. So now I'm wondering: what performance would be reasonable?
18:20:43FromGitter<liquid600pgm> try comparing pegs written in your lib against manual recursive descent parsers
18:20:54ZevvI always lose
18:21:07ZevvI guess
18:21:52ZevvI'll strip the Nim json module to do only parsing without creating AST, that would be a nice test
18:22:04FromGitter<liquid600pgm> well, you can always optimize the heck out of your generated code so it gets faster and faster
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18:22:49FromGitter<liquid600pgm> from what I know one optimization is to use `var` parameters instead of return values
18:23:36ZevvThe generated code ends up basically call-less
18:23:41FromGitter<liquid600pgm> manually written parsers tend to not do this because it makes the code pretty unreadable, but with a generated parser everything happens under the hood
18:24:31FromGitter<liquid600pgm> I guess parsing rod would be faster with NPegs than with the built-in parser xD
18:24:34ZevvThere is this 'skel' template at line 281 and down. That gets extended with a switch which expands the doXxxxFn() templates
18:24:43Zevvhehe
18:24:56ZevvI wonder if Nim is regular enough to parse with a PEG :)
18:25:34FromGitter<liquid600pgm> probably not, from my experience indentation-based grammars are very difficult to parse with PEGs
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18:25:49Zevvyeah, probably.
18:26:09FromGitter<liquid600pgm> especially when indentation is stored in tokens
18:26:27ZevvAnd how is Rod coming along then?
18:26:59Zevvyou have basic control flow running I see?
18:27:06FromGitter<liquid600pgm> well, I finished `if`, `loop` and `while` already
18:27:11FromGitter<liquid600pgm> I'm working on `for` now
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18:27:34Zevvwhat kind of for is it? Just basic numeral looping, or iterators?
18:27:40FromGitter<liquid600pgm> iterators
18:27:44Zevv\o/
18:28:00FromGitter<liquid600pgm> `loop`'s an optimization over `while true`, because it doesn't evaluate any conditions (it just adds a basic jump)
18:29:02FromGitter<liquid600pgm> I don't plan on making an optimizer for rod's bytecode, because a) implementation simplicity b) a lot of checking and stuff is deffered to runtime
18:29:58FromGitter<liquid600pgm> eg. I can't make `2 + 2` optimize to `4` rn because `+` is treated as a method on the `Num` class
18:31:11FromGitter<danielecook> What does illegal capture mean?
18:31:19FromGitter<danielecook> `Error: illegal capture 'sep' of type <var string> which is declared here: csv.nim(36, 31)`
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18:32:01FromGitter<liquid600pgm> my first guess would be that you're violating memory safety with closures? but no idea
18:32:17Zevvdrop the code somewhere?
18:32:44FromGitter<danielecook> I am using list comprehensions: ` lc[x.strip(chars = {'\"', '\''}) | (x <- line.split(sep)), string]`
18:33:08FromGitter<danielecook> https://gist.github.com/danielecook/5d5f9a2cd32ff06ab05feb04f6418a28
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18:35:02Zevvfunny, I don't see it. I got that error once when doing async stuff, but that's not the case here
18:35:44FromGitter<liquid600pgm> myself too, I got that error when doing stuff with closures and upvalues
18:36:42FromGitter<danielecook> could it be the list comprehension?
18:37:20FromGitter<liquid600pgm> no idea, but I think the solution would be to create a temporary `let` constant to use in the comprehension
18:37:48FromGitter<liquid600pgm> you can also use an `if` expression, and replace the `var` with `let` then
18:37:56FromGitter<danielecook> that fixed it
18:38:22leorizedanielecook: use of list comprehension in Nim is discouraged afaik
18:38:28FromGitter<liquid600pgm> generally, try to use `let` whenever you don't need `var`, it reduces bugs with memory safety and stuff
18:38:37FromGitter<danielecook> so - just for my clarity...if I define a proc where the args are like `sep: var string` that is passsing in by reference correct?
18:38:45FromGitter<liquid600pgm> yes
18:39:34FromGitter<danielecook> thanks! ok then regarding the code (cause this is one of my first!)... prob. should change these: ⏎ ⏎ ``` var ⏎ stack_header: seq[string] ⏎ match_col: int``` ⏎ ⏎ to `let`? [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5c894e662f2fb54c37e54f8c]
18:39:43FromGitter<danielecook> Why are comprehensions discouraged?
18:39:57leorizeit's buggy iirc
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18:40:13FromGitter<liquid600pgm> @danielecook use `let` when you don't need mutation
18:40:34FromGitter<danielecook> ah ok
18:40:35FromGitter<danielecook> thx
18:40:50FromGitter<liquid600pgm> when you need to fill up an empty list, you can't use `let` because it'll be a compile time error (`let` cannot be reassigned)
18:41:12FromGitter<danielecook> So this is really cool - I whipped this up in less than an hour, and it can be used to stack csvs with a combined header
18:41:25FromGitter<danielecook> similar functionality as csv-kit stack
18:41:35FromGitter<danielecook> really impressed with how quickly I was able to throw it together and how fast it is
18:41:43leorizehttp://nim-lang.github.io/Nim/sugar#[].m%2CListComprehension%2Cuntyped%2Cuntyped
18:41:56leorize^ lc is deprecated in the next version of Nim
18:42:19FromGitter<danielecook> ah ok
18:42:24FromGitter<danielecook> so I can just use a for loo[
18:42:41FromGitter<liquid600pgm> pretty much
18:43:22FromGitter<danielecook> Good to know
18:43:36FromGitter<liquid600pgm> myself, I never used the `sugar` module, it wasn't neccessary in my code (I'm not used to FP concepts)
18:44:06FromGitter<danielecook> Just out of curiosity what types of stuff are you working on?
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18:44:34FromGitter<danielecook> The only reason I was drawn to nim was because of the hts-nim lib
18:44:40FromGitter<liquid600pgm> I'm working on a scripting language for Nim: https://github.com/liquid600pgm/rod
18:44:56ZevvHa
18:45:02ZevvI parse JSON faster then the json module!
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18:45:14FromGitter<liquid600pgm> GG!
18:45:46sealmoveOMG amp editor is so great
18:46:13leorizeZevv: can you parse it faster than packedjson? :P
18:46:20FromGitter<danielecook> as far as JSON is concerned - I am planning on writing a utility to convert a genetic data format (VCF) to JSON
18:46:25FromGitter<danielecook> However, the fields tend to be heterogeneous
18:46:36Zevvleorize: what's that?
18:46:39FromGitter<danielecook> and it seems like nim (and go) have all this marshalling, unmarshalling, object business
18:46:46FromGitter<danielecook> 'Variant Call Format'
18:46:53leorizeZevv: https://github.com/Araq/packedjson
18:47:04ZevvYeah, that has Araq in the name, forget it
18:47:14Araqhey
18:47:18FromGitter<danielecook> cool i'll take a look at that
18:47:21Araqthat's offensive.
18:48:31FromGitter<liquid600pgm> I wouldn't say it's offensive, it's more of a compliment (that your stuff cannot be beaten in terms of speed)
18:48:42FromGitter<danielecook> One other question for you all
18:49:02FromGitter<danielecook> Relatively new to compiled lang. Nim compiles very fast; I use a utility called `entr` to recompile on every save
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18:49:19FromGitter<danielecook> Seems like no one every told me about this and I had to figure it out myself
18:49:34FromGitter<danielecook> Saves a lot of time switching between terminals
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18:49:45shashlickway to wake up the sleeping giant
18:49:49FromGitter<danielecook> But...if you use an alt. what is it and how did you find out about it
18:50:26Araqit's not hard to beat me, I don't micro-optimize. all I do is to avoid "slow" operations.
18:50:31Zevv20MB of json. stripped packedjson: 235msec. NPeg 241msec. Not bad :)
18:50:49ZevvWith a plain PEG generated json parser
18:51:32leorizedanielcook: I use `nim c -r`, which basically just compile the code when I get to run it :P
18:52:27FromGitter<coocheenin> @danielecook As alternative `sentry`
18:53:23FromGitter<danielecook> not familiar with sentry
18:53:38FromGitter<coocheenin> @danielecook https://github.com/samueleaton/sentry
18:54:14FromGitter<danielecook> oh thats pretty similar I think
18:55:21FromGitter<coocheenin> Of sure. Not C-written, but in Crystal.
18:57:54FromGitter<coocheenin> We don't have a nim-equivalent at all.
19:00:25Araqdanielecook: we will have something better than 'lc'
19:00:41FromGitter<danielecook> looking forward to it!
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19:01:12FromGitter<danielecook> Seems like a great language for the sciences - lots of room for growth there.
19:04:31FromGitter<alehander42> You can try alehander42/comprehension it's an experiment in list comps
19:04:31FromGitter<alehander42> Based on araq idea and with a maybe better b3liever pr
19:05:11Araqalehander42: can we move yours to sugar.nim? is it ready?
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19:06:53FromGitter<alehander42> Well I have to look at it again, I think it should be almost ready
19:07:09FromGitter<alehander42> But I think the b3liever PR had a better implementation
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19:44:06FromGitter<danielecook> Is there any diff between echo and stdout.write_line?
19:45:21solitudesfecho autostringifies every argument, so you dont need to prefix them with `$`
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19:52:05FromGitter<zah> I've stumbled on a very weird problem. I had an error pragma inside a generic function and the compiler was happy to ignore it: ⏎ I noticed the spec says the following: ⏎ ⏎ > The error pragma is used to make the compiler output an error message with the given content. *Compilation does not necessarily abort after an error though.* ⏎ ... [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5c895f653162ec7bc7692fae]
19:54:17Araqdid you instantiate the generic?
19:55:26FromGitter<zah> yes
19:55:43FromGitter<zah> so, it's a bug?
19:55:50leorizesolitudesf: same goes to writeLine
19:56:34FromGitter<zah> This sentence is referring to collecting more errors in `nim check` context, or is it about something else?
19:57:05leorizedanielecook: echo has a special semantic of printing to console, so it's could be implemented in javascript, while writeLine can't
19:57:17FromGitter<danielecook> ok thanks
19:57:19Araqyes, it's about "nim check"
19:57:40FromGitter<danielecook> one other question - would it be unwise to parallelize with processes that echo?
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21:01:14FromGitter<deech> If anyone's looking for a benchmark on `{.experimental "parallel" .}` this one eats up about 6GB of memory and finally dies with an `Illegal storage ...` error. Remove the parallelism constructs and it finishes but still uses about 700MB RAM. https://gist.github.com/deech/8f585df50dbd662bb5fb5f48a7e159e9
21:02:23FromGitter<deech> @Araq: How important is this feature in the near future?
21:03:53FromGitter<deech> BTW this is an attempt at the language benchmarks benchmark: https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/performance/binarytrees.html.
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21:18:03FromGitter<Varriount> @deech What does that pragma do (and is there documentation on it)?
21:20:47FromGitter<dawkot> What am I supposed to do to make c2nim happy? ⏎ ⏎ > .../include/SDL_gpu.h(681, 50) Error: token expected: ; ⏎ The line content: ⏎ > static SDL_version SDLCALL GPU_GetCompiledVersion(void) ... [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5c89742fe527821f0a53084a]
21:23:21FromGitter<genotrance> I'd run it thru the preprocessor first
21:24:08FromGitter<dawkot> What do you mean? I've never used C for real.
21:26:11FromGitter<genotrance> See how nimterop does it
21:27:49FromGitter<deech> @Varriount https://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#parallel-amp-spawn-parallel-statement
21:28:01FromGitter<genotrance> https://github.com/nimterop/nimterop/blob/master/nimterop/getters.nim#L200
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21:41:54FromGitter<Varriount> Eh heh heh... https://blogs.dust3d.org/2019/03/13/why-i-rewrote-the-mesh-generator-of-dust3d-from-rust-to-cplusplus/
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21:44:03dom96:o
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21:57:57dom96So I implemented some awesome Prometheus logging for the Nim GC to investigate a leak... andddd the leak disappeared
21:59:42CalinouPrometheus sounds cool, but I don't manage a large enough service to benefit from it :'(
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22:08:39federico3Netdata is an option
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22:20:32Calinouthat's what I use on my VPS
22:20:39Calinouit's pretty decent indeed
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23:02:54jjidoVarriount: Rust safeness is "distracting".... How is the nim compiler in that regard?
23:04:59shashlicknot that I've used rust before but nim doesn't distract me
23:06:51shashlickthe thing that does distract me is trying to do crazy dynamic things in a compiled language knowing very well that I can pull it off in Nim
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23:13:31dom96Nim doesn't distract, it empowers
23:15:23FromGitter<arnetheduck> learning rust makes sense for any serious developer, if only to become better at your preferred language.. for example, if you've only programmed gc'd languages, your resource management (memory, file handles etc) skills will be weak (and indeed the language facilities and libraries in the language itself), while rust will teach you sound thinking around it as they build from sound principles around these
23:15:23FromGitter... particular issues - the things that rust requires of you to write safe code are valid for other languages as well, the difference being that they point it out to you at compile time, while in other languages you learn about them from bug reports.
23:15:56FromGitter<arnetheduck> same applies to learning a functional language of choice etc.
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23:17:37Araqall true, unfortunately every static analysis has to be pessimistic and so in the end you can be less productive, objectively.
23:18:25Araqa compiler that always says "your program is wrong" catches 100% of your bugs.
23:19:05FromGitter<arnetheduck> well, you know.. like taxes.. 100% don't work and 0% don't work. what the sweet spot is seems to be up for debate :)
23:20:02FromGitter<arnetheduck> each has it's niche I'd say is a more accurate description. when the cost of a bug is high, your total productivity function is different than when it's low.
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23:21:50FromGitter<arnetheduck> point is,once you've learned these new skills, you can transfer them and enjoy the relaxed and streamlined environment of nim, for example - inevitably, your nim code will be better for it
23:22:21AraqNimZ3 is coming. *cough*
23:22:31FromDiscord<exelotl> I think INTERCAL was onto something with the "PLEASE" modifier
23:23:16Araqit's time to use theorem provers and stop messing around with primitive type and effect systems.
23:25:06FromGitter<arnetheduck> haha, I could use that actually.. we've been debating the issue in circles forever in eth2, and the outcome has been decidedly inelegant (brute-forcing underflow safety by using uint64 and starting all relevant counting at 2^32)
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23:26:08Araqmeh that's intractable so use sticky saturated arithmetic instead. Integers are begging for +-Inf values
23:26:45Araqat least my integers do.
23:27:34FromGitter<arnetheduck> yes saturated came up (actually rust folks suggested it because they have std support for it :)), but it didn't gain traction
23:28:17FromGitter<arnetheduck> so we're left with a *compromise*
23:28:47Araqa good compromise is achieved when every party is equally unhappy with it.
23:29:18FromGitter<arnetheduck> in case of eth2 it's actually kind of tractable, if you establish some bounds within which the system is supposed to function
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23:41:35shashlickyay finally got through a big refactor
23:42:40shashlick@arnetheduck - --debuginfo made the difference in debugging the dlls, just --debugger:native wasn't enough
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23:42:52shashlickneed to combine these varied flags into one
23:43:30shashlickstackTrace, lineTrace
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