| 00:00:11 | FromDiscord | <vagous> Would nim work well with game dev? |
| 00:00:21 | FromDiscord | <vagous> Like for creating vulkan abstractions for a game |
| 00:00:31 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @vagous "Like for creating vulkan": yes, just like C would |
| 00:00:34 | FromDiscord | <vagous> k |
| 00:00:37 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> except its MUCH faster to write |
| 00:00:46 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> like 3x or 4x faster to prototype with nim than with C |
| 00:00:51 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> (i use both daily) |
| 00:01:02 | FromDiscord | <vagous> And i'm assuming that it writes better C than anyone could ever |
| 00:01:31 | FromDiscord | <vagous> /c++ |
| 00:01:32 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> don't understimate the developer time |
| 00:01:44 | FromDiscord | <vagous> I'm just asking |
| 00:01:48 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> computer time is cheap and repeatable, developer time is invaluable |
| 00:02:39 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> yeah I know. im just pointing to the fact that, whether it is better C, the prototyping speed is so fast that it would make it worth it even if it was slower (it isnt' but just to give perspective) |
| 00:02:42 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> I use opengl, but yes |
| 00:02:43 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> It's a system language you can do whatever your little heart desires |
| 00:03:30 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> Nim is somewhere, in terms of speed, between C and C++... and c/cpp are so close together that the differences don't really matter at that point |
| 00:03:42 | FromDiscord | <vagous> I understand |
| 00:04:00 | FromDiscord | <Mike> I think nimlsp is just failing quietly. |
| 00:04:07 | FromDiscord | <vagous> where do I import from for createThread? |
| 00:04:15 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Nowhere |
| 00:04:16 | FromDiscord | <vagous> good |
| 00:04:25 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> It's already imported if you have `--threads:on` |
| 00:04:28 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> That was a big thing with Nim 2.0 |
| 00:05:05 | FromDiscord | <vagous> So I did a test once |
| 00:05:07 | FromDiscord | <vagous> with nico |
| 00:05:26 | FromDiscord | <vagous> It wasn't threaded, but I used a for x for y loop to render a bunch of sprites in a square |
| 00:05:51 | FromDiscord | <vagous> When I switched to using a for item in array loop it went from slow speed to wouldn't even load speed |
| 00:06:04 | FromDiscord | <vagous> Why is that? |
| 00:06:18 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Debug build with range checks in hotpath |
| 00:06:32 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @vagous "Like for creating vulkan": There's actually a wrapper for Vulkan in Nim |
| 00:06:32 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> If it was a release build you still have range checks in hotpath |
| 00:06:33 | FromDiscord | <vagous> This was in release |
| 00:06:50 | FromDiscord | <vagous> what is hotpath? |
| 00:07:08 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> The meat and gravy part of your code |
| 00:07:12 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Where work is actually being done |
| 00:07:35 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> You probably had range checks inside your code and where benchmarking with those enabled |
| 00:07:49 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> You can either disable bound checks globally or for blocks of code |
| 00:08:24 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=YOODKVYXesBr |
| 00:08:39 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "There's actually a wrapper": don't send them to nimgl/vulkan, please |
| 00:08:44 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> its beyond old 🙈 |
| 00:08:46 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Guess that should be `@[1]` |
| 00:08:53 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> Daniel's version is way better |
| 00:08:56 | FromDiscord | <vagous> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=iCDylliAzChO |
| 00:08:57 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @heysokam "don't send them to": There's others too |
| 00:09:00 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> And since it's top level it don't work |
| 00:09:09 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @heysokam "Daniel's version is way": Oh? Could you send that repo? Idk who Daniel is |
| 00:09:28 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> I do know a friend of mine forked an old Vulkan repo and updated it a few months back |
| 00:09:30 | FromDiscord | <vagous> In reply to @heysokam "Daniel's version is way": send |
| 00:09:34 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "Oh? Could you send": https://github.com/DanielBelmes/vulkan |
| 00:09:48 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=AsHkMmezSton |
| 00:10:17 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> (edit) "https://github.com/DanielBelmes/vulkan" => "https://github.com/DanielBelmes/vulkan↵the generator actually generates the entire API, unlike the nimgl's version which stops at 1XXsomething" |
| 00:10:24 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> (edit) "1XXsomething" => "1XX or 2XX something" |
| 00:11:50 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @heysokam "https://github.com/DanielBelmes/vulkan the generato": Oh damn that's epic! |
| 00:12:14 | FromDiscord | <vagous> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=ICYgcVvwlOgI |
| 00:12:32 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> I feel like that's self explanatory, but yes |
| 00:13:01 | FromDiscord | <vagous> A lot of things in life seem self explanatory, that' why I ask "obvious" questions |
| 00:19:17 | FromDiscord | <vagous> How would yall compare odin syntax productivity to nim? Would nim be better? |
| 00:19:33 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Odin lacks automatic memory management so who cared about syntax |
| 00:19:58 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> As soon as a proper program relies on the programmer remembering to free resources you lost productivity |
| 00:20:26 | FromDiscord | <vagous> Gotcha |
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| 00:28:34 | FromDiscord | <demotomohiro> https://github.com/demotomohiro/littlesugar/blob/main/src/littlesugar/reinterpretPtr.nim↵I think procs like this is better than using cast to convert pointer types.↵It is more explicit and safter than cast.↵`cast` accepts any types but `reinterpretPtr` accepts only pointer types. |
| 00:29:56 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> It is nicer but for things like `cast[uint32]({range[0..31](10)}` it means you have to take an addr 😄 |
| 00:30:18 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Though arguably sets should be convertible to their implementation size |
| 00:30:30 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> `uint32({range[0..31](10)})` should compile |
| 00:31:39 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=kZkuXHXuMTTJ |
| 00:33:54 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Oh hey Odin now ties with my Nim ftree implementation |
| 00:33:54 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> They did it! |
| 00:33:55 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> fractal tree\ for anyone curios |
| 00:33:58 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> curious even |
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| 00:37:19 | FromDiscord | <demotomohiro> Why does `cast[uint32]({range[0..31](10)}` have to take an addr? |
| 00:39:53 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> It doesn't I just meant if everyone stopped using `cast` |
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| 03:44:28 | FromDiscord | <pk.kyle> any quick and smol projects to copy from that showcases how i can use nim as js on the web? thx 🙏 |
| 03:44:41 | FromDiscord | <pk.kyle> uh by copy i mean take reference of |
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| 04:18:33 | NimEventer | New thread by Tina: A strange behavior in seq, see https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/11425 |
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| 07:59:15 | FromDiscord | <queebee> Isn't there a all function somewhere? if all(for sub in strings: sub in line) |
| 08:00:16 | FromDiscord | <bung8954> how to do multiple `except A,B as err` ? |
| 08:00:37 | FromDiscord | <morgan> i just finally tonight figured out the bug that's been driving me crazy on my clap api stuff, and got working parameters in bitwig and reaper. im really happy to be able to make progress on it again |
| 08:12:25 | FromDiscord | <kots> In reply to @queebee "Isn't there a all": std/sequtils has all and allIt |
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| 09:41:44 | FromDiscord | <jaar23> How to conditionally import when certain feature is enable?↵If user have install this lib or this lib is available, then import x. |
| 09:42:11 | FromDiscord | <jaar23> Can this be done during compile time checks? |
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| 09:52:19 | FromDiscord | <pmunch> You could try: `when compiles(import X): import x` |
| 09:53:33 | FromDiscord | <pmunch> Otherwise like I recommend for Futhark `when defined(useLibX): import x` enabled with `-d:useLibX` |
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| 10:17:00 | FromDiscord | <jaar23> So when build, user should pass `- d:useLibX`? |
| 10:18:02 | FromDiscord | <jaar23> Can you point me some example for both? Very much appreciated |
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| 11:10:22 | FromDiscord | <queebee> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=voEIKElOBXPu |
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| 13:07:16 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @pk.kyle "uh by copy i": `MIT`, `GPL` and friends literally mean "you can copy this"↵that mindset from school does not work in the real world |
| 13:08:18 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> Sadly I don't know any↵But its honestly as simple as `nim js yourfile.nim` and adding the resulting `.js` file into your html as usual |
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| 13:30:23 | FromDiscord | <pk.kyle> In reply to @heysokam "`MIT`, `GPL` and friends": ah ic, i didn't get my head up to that stage, i thought ai wouldn't have much data on nim but turns out it works fine |
| 13:30:51 | FromDiscord | <pk.kyle> thanks |
| 13:32:11 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> not gpt, GPL, lol 🙈 |
| 13:32:34 | FromDiscord | <odexine> In reply to @heysokam "not gpt, GPL, lol": ChatGPL |
| 13:32:45 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @pk.kyle "ah ic, i didn't": not refering to any form of AI. i meant licenses |
| 13:32:55 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> licenses are made to allow copying |
| 13:33:00 | FromDiscord | <pk.kyle> wait oops |
| 13:33:02 | FromDiscord | <pk.kyle> lolz |
| 13:33:12 | FromDiscord | <odexine> In reply to @heysokam "licenses are made to": Copying with terms mind you |
| 13:33:54 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @odexine "Copying with terms mind": sure thing, but definitely against the school mindset of "Do NOT COPY EVER OMG YOU ARE EEVIL STUDENT" |
| 13:33:59 | FromDiscord | <pk.kyle> hehe time to copy yes |
| 13:34:40 | FromDiscord | <odexine> In reply to @heysokam "sure thing, but definitely": I mean yeah, but the reasons are different as why copy or not |
| 13:34:49 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> definitely |
| 13:35:12 | FromDiscord | <odexine> (edit) "as why copy" => "for “why copy”" |
| 13:36:02 | FromDiscord | <_nenc> In reply to @odexine "ChatGPL": what if chatgpt is really under gpl↵sadly it is not real |
| 13:37:54 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> you might need to visit an alternate timeline to know if the "sadly" truly is accurate |
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| 14:11:52 | FromDiscord | <pk.kyle> how do i write a cstring string |
| 14:11:57 | FromDiscord | <pk.kyle> im new to dis dom thingy |
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| 14:15:38 | FromDiscord | <pk.kyle> oh i figured it out `cstring"stuff"` but how do i make it shorter so i dont have to type `cstring` everytime |
| 14:16:25 | FromDiscord | <odexine> `type cs = cstring`↵`cs"test"` ↵Maybe |
| 14:17:22 | FromDiscord | <pk.kyle> ah thanks |
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| 14:40:16 | FromDiscord | <pk.kyle> are there advantages to use func over procs? |
| 14:40:39 | FromDiscord | <pk.kyle> if so, should i just use `func` if there's no side effects for my function? |
| 14:40:46 | FromDiscord | <pk.kyle> (edit) "there's" => "there are" |
| 14:43:32 | FromDiscord | <odexine> In reply to @pk.kyle "are there advantages to": If you want to avoid bugs caused by side effects sure |
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| 15:48:38 | FromDiscord | <pk.kyle> are there better ways to generate 2 unique random samples than shuffling the list and getting the first twos? |
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| 15:51:13 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @pk.kyle "are there better ways": You could use a random number generator that has the max value set as the length of the list? |
| 15:55:47 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @pk.kyle "if so, should i": nim tags procs without sideeffects automatically as nosideffects↵but by using `func` you would enforce it on yourself, so you can catch things that you don't want to do |
| 16:01:10 | FromDiscord | <pk.kyle> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "You could use a": wouldn't that repeat a random number? |
| 16:02:03 | FromDiscord | <pk.kyle> In reply to @heysokam "nim tags procs without": oh, cool. i thought it wouldn't optimize for me |
| 16:02:52 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @pk.kyle "oh, cool. i thought": optimization is not the usecase of func, in the case of nim↵its more for yourself, so you don't shoot yourself in the foot by a typo or mistake |
| 16:02:52 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @pk.kyle "wouldn't that repeat a": It could have repeats yeah |
| 16:03:30 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> I'm creating an object that is passed around the code into 20+ recursive functions↵Is there any benefit to passing it as a `proc thing(obj :var MyObj) ...` instead of returning the modified object from the function by `result = obj; result.thing = newthing`? |
| 16:15:01 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @heysokam "I'm creating an object": Probably cleanliness, what would you prefer? |
| 16:15:01 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> `var Obj` could pair nicely with std/with too |
| 16:16:36 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "Probably cleanliness, what would": returns definitely |
| 16:16:44 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> but im worried about duplicating all of that data around |
| 16:16:48 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> (edit) "duplicating" => "duplicating/moving" |
| 16:17:02 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "`var Obj` could pair": how would that work? |
| 16:20:37 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @heysokam "but im worried about": Could look into lent in Nim |
| 16:20:37 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @heysokam "how would that work?": https://nim-lang.org/docs/with.html |
| 16:21:33 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "https://nim-lang.org/docs/with.html": https://github.com/khchen/chain improves on this, too |
| 16:25:33 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "https://nim-lang.org/docs/with.html": I'm trying to unfuck the confusion cycle. i feel like this is going to worsen it by at least 2x or 3x |
| 16:25:59 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> the code is already difficult to follow. that macro feels like its going to make that even worse 😦 |
| 16:26:36 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> How so? |
| 16:27:19 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> yeah definitely a big no https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371759389889003532/1228743325595598889/image.png?ex=662d2765&is=661ab265&hm=02a9f6d1751af7e533c58d3c4860db061acf39ca3a269262dfe4623e9edd74ac& |
| 16:27:27 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> that looks next level confusing |
| 16:27:38 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> sent a long message, see https://pasty.ee/YdkXxXHwKAMD |
| 16:27:46 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "How so?": because its a compiler. and compilers are already difficult to reason about and find their edge cases |
| 16:28:12 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> it turned crazy confusing with just func/proc... imagine getting macros into the mix ⚰️ 🙈 |
| 16:28:49 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @heysokam "yeah definitely a big": That's fair, I'm planning on avoiding this type of syntax personally but chains seem nice |
| 16:29:00 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @heysokam "it turned crazy confusing": Fair enough :p |
| 16:29:04 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> the look great for simple logic, definitely |
| 16:29:27 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> or for the usecase it was created, GUIs |
| 16:35:37 | FromDiscord | <polylokh_39446> In reply to @heysokam "I'm creating an object": if you go with `var MyObj` parameters and only occasionally don't want that, you can use https://nim-lang.org/docs/sugar.html#dup.m%2CT%2Cvarargs%5Buntyped%5D in the other case. |
| 16:49:52 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @polylokh_39446 "if you go with": loos interesting. but don't know how to use this so it is intuitive whats happening behind it 🤔 |
| 16:50:05 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> what would be an example you were thinking of? |
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| 17:55:57 | FromDiscord | <nervecenter> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=IAqUrmoilOyQ |
| 17:56:22 | FromDiscord | <nervecenter> (edit) "https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=gwXhlKNbaJOF" => "https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=IFelLIxZEcln" |
| 17:58:37 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @nervecenter "It might be what": correct, I understand this↵the question is not about UFCS, its about recursive usage of the `.dup` function he mentioned |
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| 18:13:53 | FromDiscord | <pax_audiogamer> hey, anyone can tell me how do I can cross compile from macOS to windows? I'm using an m1 mac. |
| 18:16:15 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @nervecenter "It might be what": Wait you can return variables? Damn! |
| 18:20:02 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @pax_audiogamer "hey, anyone can tell": zigcc is the easiest by far |
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| 18:29:39 | FromDiscord | <pax_audiogamer> In reply to @heysokam "zigcc is the easiest": how to use that? |
| 18:29:47 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @pax_audiogamer "how to use that?": https://github.com/enthus1ast/zigcc |
| 18:30:57 | FromDiscord | <nervecenter> In reply to @chronos.vitaqua "Wait you can return": Yup. I am ONLY use it here for chaining purposes, I'd otherwise never do it, even in an "OO" module |
| 18:31:13 | FromDiscord | <nervecenter> I like that Nim prefers referential transparency and I stick to it |
| 18:31:29 | FromDiscord | <nervecenter> (edit) removed "am" | "here" => "in the example" |
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| 18:41:08 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @nervecenter "Yup. I ONLY use": That's fair enough honestly |
| 19:13:50 | FromDiscord | <whisperecean> How does one clean nimble cache without deleting all the pkgs? |
| 19:27:47 | FromDiscord | <demotomohiro> Random number generater in Nim's stdlib has 2^128 - 1 period, and it would take years to generate so many random numbers. |
| 19:28:52 | FromDiscord | <demotomohiro> In reply to @pk.kyle "wouldn't that repeat a": Random number generater in Nim's stdlib has 2^128 - 1 period, and it would take years to generate so many random numbers. |
| 20:00:29 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> In reply to @whisperecean "How does one clean": is that not the answer to the question itself? |
| 20:01:00 | FromDiscord | <sOkam! 🫐> what does "clean cache" mean without "deleting packages"? |
| 20:49:31 | FromDiscord | <planetis_m> How do you benchmark a macro? |
| 20:52:38 | FromDiscord | <Phil> As in you want to compare multiple different kinds of macros to see how they affect compile-time? |
| 20:53:25 | FromDiscord | <planetis_m> no I just want to see how long does it take to run a single macro |
| 20:53:36 | FromDiscord | <planetis_m> wait cpuTime seems to work at compile time? |
| 20:54:25 | FromDiscord | <Phil> Could just write a mini-program that uses the macro once, write a second mini-program that looks similar but does not use the macro, write a third program that triggers compile commands on the source code of the first and second, measures the cpuTime before and after triggering said command both times and subtract one from the other. |
| 20:55:10 | FromDiscord | <planetis_m> ok, sounds complicated but I will see what I can do |
| 20:55:31 | FromDiscord | <planetis_m> cpuTime - start in the macro outputs 0.0 |
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| 20:58:08 | FromDiscord | <Phil> I'd do the cpuTime calls entirely in the third program that triggers compile-commands to the other two |
| 20:59:32 | FromDiscord | <planetis_m> It works with --benchmarkVM https://forum.nim-lang.org/t/5261#52440 |
| 21:01:42 | FromDiscord | <planetis_m> Also --profileVM |
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| 23:24:23 | FromDiscord | <art.tyom> sent a code paste, see https://play.nim-lang.org/#pasty=ZUeHDKylBMWy |
| 23:24:30 | FromDiscord | <art.tyom> I read docs and it says that it automatically reads the file when I use addfiles |
| 23:24:40 | FromDiscord | <art.tyom> but when I check the site im uploading to the file is 0 bytes |
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| 23:26:56 | FromDiscord | <art.tyom> nvm |
| 23:26:59 | FromDiscord | <art.tyom> just the site being weird |
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