<< 14-09-2015 >>
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08:12:22NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel bbe4afc Araq [+0 ±1 -0]: fixes #1782
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14:53:19softiniohi just discovered nim
14:53:33reactormonksoftinio, o/
14:53:37softiniohow close are we to a release 1.0? How stable to use in production ?
14:54:06softinioFirst impressions I have are very good so am excited to justify learning and using it over languagaes like go
14:54:34r-kuits stable and its used in production
14:55:23dom96hello softinio
14:55:26dom96welcome!
14:56:06softinio@r-ku Good to know
14:56:10softinio@dom96 ty
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14:56:31softinioother than the docs on nim website, any other resources I should know about?
14:56:42dom96http://howistart.org/posts/nim/1
14:56:56dom96https://nim-by-example.github.io/
14:56:58dom96Are good
14:57:48r-kurosetta-code has quite a lot nim examples
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14:59:45enamex_campusAre there any important discussion threads/posts/whetever on (current plans for) Concepts in Nim? /Besides/ that they're not gonna make it into 1.0
15:00:42reactormonkenamex_campus, I felt like pushing them, but apparently not enough to do something about it
15:01:44enamex_campusMmm, I'm more interested in the proposed semantics. AIUI, the problems were mostly with implementation? But not all semantics were published and, 'cause the implementation was incomplete, um, what?
15:03:14EXetoCyes there are bugs that prevents many use cases from working
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15:32:17NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel aeff576 Yuriy Glukhov [+0 ±1 -0]: Fixed JS gen for generic array types.
15:32:17NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel 272df1e Andreas Rumpf [+0 ±1 -0]: Merge pull request #3325 from yglukhov/js-generic-types-fix... 2 more lines
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15:37:58NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel 6b8bd2b Roger Shi [+0 ±1 -0]: Fix issue #2245
15:37:58NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel 8f9ce52 Roger Shi [+0 ±1 -0]: fix #2367
15:37:58NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel 58e1068 Roger Shi [+0 ±1 -0]: test case for #2245
15:37:58NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel 16fe631 Roger Shi [+0 ±1 -0]: test case for #2367
15:37:58NimBot1 more commits.
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15:46:26gokrsoftinio: You may like some of my articles: http://goran.krampe.se/category/nim
15:48:40EXetoCbias ;)
15:49:26gokrI hope some of them can be of use :)
15:51:27EXetoCyeah read them!
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16:27:15softiniogokr: thanks ! I actually first heard about nim by reading this: http://goran.krampe.se/2014/10/20/i-missed-nim/ I had not looked for other articles on your blog (assume it is your blog) so thanks to you posting link will look at some of them now
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17:19:57softiniowhats nim's learning curve like compared to Go for an experienced C/Python dev would you say?
17:27:40dom96softinio: I'd say the learning curve is similar for the basics of the two languages.
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17:27:56dom96For the more advanced stuff Nim's learning curve is higher.
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17:28:23softinio@dom96 for the advanced stuff is it as steep as rust would u say
17:28:41dom96Don't think so
17:28:56softinio@dom96 ok thanks
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17:31:01AraqRust still has a plenty of different pointer types. that all but 2 or 3 are implemented in the stdlib and are not built into the language doesn't really help. IMHO
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18:06:40AraqEnamex: currently I think 'concept' has a much better chance of getting stable than static[T] ...
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18:43:53NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel 6ac2ba1 Yuriy Glukhov [+0 ±2 -0]: Uint64 to string in pure nim. array[char] to string fixed in vm.
18:43:53NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel be43467 Andreas Rumpf [+0 ±2 -0]: Merge pull request #3322 from yglukhov/fix-uint64-str-vm... 2 more lines
18:45:53Araqcan somebody explain to me why so many people use "Unix sockets"? aren't these by definition non-portable beasts?
18:49:02ldleworkthey're fast, and safe
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19:43:58softiniois there a contributors guide for nim?
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19:59:15dom96softinio: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/contributing.rst
19:59:48softinio@dom96 ty
20:01:32Mat4hello
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20:15:21softinioI wish nim didn't have the $ operator. Though its clever it reminds of php and it upsets me :-)
20:15:43softiniojust a joke like it really
20:15:53softinioI hate PHP fyi !!!
20:16:51Mat4what operator would you prefer ?
20:19:18softinioit was a joke I am good with $
20:19:45Mat4ok
20:20:23softinioI use a mac and use homebrew for installing packages. Oddly nim is still called nimrod on homebrew
20:32:57matkukiWhat (if any) is the prefered mechanism in Nim that can be used as an interface? An inheritable base type with proc attributes?
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20:50:08Mat4ask Aaq
20:50:18Mat4sorry Araq
20:50:53Mat4also I think readed something about interfaces in the documentation yesterday
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20:52:51matkukiMat4: which document was it in?
20:55:37dom96matkuki: concepts or object with closures
20:56:30Mat4matkuki: Give me some time to take a look again, I'm work on some sources at moment
20:56:58matkukidom96: Thanks!
20:57:20Mat4ok, it was some explanation about concepts
20:57:47matkukiMat4: Ok, thanks.
20:59:48Araqsoftinio: actually $ is a joke about perl, like "hey look! with a sane language you don't need weak typing that pretends scalar vs hash vs array is all you need to know about your types"
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21:38:04strcmp1Araq, OSX, Linux, and all the *BSDs support unix sockets. theyre def useful. i see them used as a medium between a proxy http server(apache) and http servers written in ruby often.
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21:38:39strcmp1i am pretty sure its not unique to ruby.
21:39:28NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel ac16b15 Dominik Picheta [+0 ±1 -0]: Added more bugfixes to news.txt
21:42:13Araqstrcmp1: but *why*? the sockets API is a pain in the butt either way, you might as well use "ordinary" sockets instead
21:43:02strcmp1Araq, a TCP socket? yeah, it works, but if you have many ruby web servers on one host, a unix socket does not require binding each to a port.
21:51:10drewsremAraq, you can pass file-descriptors only over Unix Sockets I think
21:52:39drewsremAnd they might be faster?
21:53:01reactormonkdrewsrem, might be linux-only even
21:54:17drewsremAt least Wiki claims "Linux and BSD"
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21:59:13drewsremI assume their prevalency is mostly due to efficiency tho.
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22:04:26strcmp1drewsrem, i think this has been benched already, and TCP sockets on a local machine are as fast/faster.
22:05:04drewsremstrcmp1, random google results: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14973942/performance-tcp-loopback-connection-vs-unix-domain-socket - got a link?
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22:06:30drewsremstrcmp1, I certainly see no reason that TCP sockets would be faster on a local machine, that would make absolutely no sense
22:06:52strcmp1drewsrem, nope. you may very well be right, but i remember having this discussion with someone before but i was on the opposite side of the argument, and he provided a link or gist that basically argued you may as well use a TCP socket instead, and i thought speed was one of the reasons. it was probably not.
22:09:20drewsremstrcmp1, well w/o hearing the argument nor seeing at least some sort of bench...
22:09:34strcmp1yep
22:09:35strcmp11sec
22:09:39strcmp1asking guy for a link
22:15:17drewsremAraq, this also seems to be of interest from FreeBSD ML: https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-performance/2005-February/001143.html
22:18:18Mat4Unix sockets are designed for local usage. Dependent on the operating system this means there implementation is able to avoid some check-ups and routing. This can result in potential faster execution
22:19:44drewsremYou also can use fs pathnames as addresses which come with usual permissions I guess
22:21:50Mat4in these case the complexity of the file system matters (and most modern file systems are very complex)
22:22:32strcmp1yeah
22:22:39strcmp1there are many cases where they're useful
22:22:47drewsremThat post from the FreeBSD ML was from 2005 and claims there is no optimizations over TCP loopback, " It's really TCP, it just goes over
22:22:48drewsrem a loopback interface by virtue of a special address" - you don't need to know much about systems programming to know that this is not what you want
22:22:59strcmp1drewsrem, he hasn't replied. i say forget it, it looks like theyre faster.
22:23:14drewsremstrcmp1, they?
22:23:27strcmp1unix sockets
22:24:07drewsremstrcmp1, agreed
22:26:10drewsremMat4, I'm unsure but I suspect unix socket inodes aren't actually stored on the fs on a medium, but sit above
22:27:11drewsremSo it shouldn't matter what underlying fs is mounted underneath, permissions for unix sockets should always work
22:28:51Mat4I think the interface and function procession overhead of file systems can be a limiting factor (which depends on how an operating system is organized)
22:29:45drewsremMat4, unix sockets just uses pathnames as addresses, how is the fs involved in the actual communication?
22:31:40Mat4because Unix oriented operating systems handles internal memory structures as files, should use an unified file oriented interface for various kernel calls for example
22:32:35drewsremMat4, I've lost you, I don't see how this relates to unix sockets vs tcp or udp for IPC
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22:33:50drewsremIn any case, another argument I would propose is that because unix sockets are that prevalent among userspace, kernel will quite obviously be optimized for them, instead of optimizing TCP loopbacks in a special treatment that unix sockets would not get.
22:33:51Mat4I questioned the implementation of Unix sockets for Unix oriented operating systems (which I don't remember)
22:34:31Mat4anyhow, wy not write a benchmark ?
22:35:33drewsremMat4, because Google returns me 4 on top that all agree with what I'd expect and I see no reason why adding additional levels of indirection would make things faster as well as what I wrote above
22:35:50*Mat4 found this an interesting excuse to take a look at kernel sources again
22:37:38matkukidom96: I'm not familiar with concepts, can concepts check for procs/methods that can be applied to an object?
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22:39:00Mat4drewsrem: well, if you trust thouse benchmarks, then go on use Unix sockets
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22:44:54matkukiExample: https://bpaste.net/show/d88525f143de . Keep in mind, I am totally new to concepts.
22:45:50reactormonkmatkuki, IIRC concepts aren't fully supported yet, few bugs around
22:46:17matkukireactormonk: Should they not be used yet?
22:46:34Mat4ciao
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22:49:11reactormonkmatkuki, you can use them, but there might be a few bugs - https://github.com/nim-lang/nim/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+concept
22:50:00matkukireactormonk: Ok, can you look at the example and tell me if this is doable?
22:51:03reactormonkmatkuki, I don't know :-(
22:51:40matkukireactormonk: No problem, that make two of us :)
22:54:37matkukiAraq: Can you look at the example, please? Is it possible to do this kind of checking in the last line of the example? https://bpaste.net/show/d88525f143de
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23:12:19matkukibye
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23:16:19Araqcool we have an tdont_be_stupid test
23:16:38Xelol
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