<< 15-09-2015 >>
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01:52:38strcmp1Araq, where
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06:51:17enamexThis: http://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#limitations-of-the-method-call-syntax
06:51:42enamex^Referenced from here: http://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#procedures-method-call-syntax
06:51:57enamexShould be: http://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#templates-limitations-of-the-method-call-syntax
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06:52:17enamex"templates-limitations-of" instead of "limitations-of"
06:52:45enamexThere're a lot of subtly broken navigation links in the manual. Breaks the flow of reading a bit.
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07:51:10dom96enamex: could you fix them in a PR?
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08:13:25enamexI'll see later today, hopefully
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08:15:21dom96enamex: thanks
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09:38:04NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel b9df132 Reimer Behrends [+0 ±2 -0]: Provide access to getsockname()/getpeername().... 4 more lines
09:38:04NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel 01c99ff Dominik Picheta [+0 ±2 -0]: Merge branch 'socket-address' of https://github.com/rbehrends/Nim into rbehrends-socket-address
09:38:04NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel 4da5e47 Dominik Picheta [+0 ±3 -0]: Implements getPeerAddr/getPeerName on Windows and adds IDX.
09:38:04NimBotnim-lang/Nim devel d24eaf0 Dominik Picheta [+0 ±3 -0]: Merge branch 'rbehrends-socket-address' into devel
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11:40:06matkukidom96: Got time for a question?
11:40:17dom96go ahead
11:40:28dom96please just ask next time
11:40:33matkukithanks, let me just type it up...
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11:44:17softinioeveryone seems to be keen to learn go these days ... would it be a mistake to use nim on my next major project?
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11:44:48coffeepoti dont think so, nim is very capable
11:45:02coffeepoti dont think itd be a mistake i mean
11:45:15matkukidom96: https://bpaste.net/show/ecc6632c7cd9
11:45:17matkukiHow do you make the procedure work for both types?
11:46:09dom96var ParticleBase?
11:46:15dom96You might need to use a method instead
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11:49:36dom96softinio: what's your next project?
11:49:51softinioI have two projects I need to do
11:50:01softinioOne is a web microservice rest api
11:50:12softinioand one is a command line database tool I need
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11:51:13softinioSorry if my earlier question was silly .... I asked as all the hipsters are going for go and as I am short of time these days for these side projects to my job want to spend it wisely
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11:53:04enamex_campusA mistake to /use/ is up to your judgement. You know your circusmstances better.
11:54:24enamex_campusA mistake as opposed to Go? Well, their flavors are really far apart for me so it's a difficult question to face. It's just... I wouldn't let both become the filtered final contenders for the same choice....
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11:56:54dom96softinio: if you're worried about time then perhaps a language you already know would be the right choice?
11:57:14dom96if your goal is to try something new then use Nim :)
11:57:56softinio@dom96 fair point. I think my question silly let me retract it. Think I asked in my frustration of wanting more time for doing both go and nim :)
11:58:28softinioon a different subject how big is the nim community?
11:58:41coffeepotalso if you want metaprogramming, compiling to c and a forward looking head dev attitude then choose nim. I get the impression go is more focused on language leanness, whereas nim is very cutting edge
11:58:53softiniokind of nice to be an early adopter as the lang is great from what I have seen so far
11:59:21softinio@coffeepot +1 I like all those especially as I have a c background
11:59:47softiniobtw on train may loose internet connection shortly back within hour if I disappear may miss messages
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12:00:36dom96softinio: take a look at the IRC logs to catch up if you lose your internet http://irclogs.nim-lang.org/
12:00:48coffeepotonly thing to consider IMHO (and its a big one) is that go has more people using it. Having said that I've never had any problems getting helpful answers
12:00:52dom96the Nim community is definitely smaller than Go's
12:03:56coffeepotsoftino: are you on windows? Are you planning on writing a service for your api?
12:04:33coffeepotI am hoping to do the same thing, in nim - however one thing lacking so far is a nice wrapper to the services api
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12:20:52matkukidom96: The ParticleBase type has no attributes/methods/procs, it's just a base type so I can have a seq[ParticleBase] which I need to loop over and call 'Update_Force' on each item in the seq.
12:20:53matkukiMore complete example: https://bpaste.net/show/5d17a3dcfec3
12:20:55matkukiLine 33 gives: 'Error: type mismatch: got (ParticleBase, float), but expected Update_Force(in_gravity_particle: var ParticleGravity, duration: float)'
12:26:30Araqmatkuki: don't use .inheritable, use object of RootObj instead
12:26:40Araqand use 'ref object' for all your objects
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12:27:08Araqand use 'method' for every of your update_force
12:27:50gokrmatkuki: You may want to check my OO in Nim articles
12:28:05matkukiAraq: Didn't know you were here, thanks!
12:28:21matkukilet me try...
12:28:26gokrBut if you stick to Araq's three advice there - then objects behave basically like in most other OO langs.
12:28:58matkukigokr: thanks
12:29:14gokrmatkuki: I explored OO in Nim in excrutiating details: http://goran.krampe.se/category/nim/
12:30:07matkukigokr: Didn't know about your OO articles, will look into it.
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12:31:11Araqand your whole approach to the problem is wrong btw ;-)
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12:32:16gokrAraq: In what way you mean?
12:32:34matkukiAraq: Then tell me the right way, please. This it just a straight translation of some C++ code!
12:35:16Araqinstead of seq[ref ParticleBase] you should use seq[ParticleSpring], seq[ParticleDrag] and use value-based datatypes for ParticleSpring
12:35:31Araqno ref, no inheritance, no dynamic binding
12:36:18Araqeasily 5x times faster and ports more easily to GPUs
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12:37:24Araqalso "and many more particles" indicates that you have a design problem here too.
12:37:50gokrmatkuki: Basically, as soon as you start using a collection (seq) with objects of different types - you will need runtime dispatch (methods).
12:38:26gokrIts not "wrong" :) but Araq focuses on max performance.
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12:40:40matkukigokr: That's my goal also.
12:40:42matkukiAraq: I like this principle, especially the 5x faster part! But can you elaborate on 'use value-based datatypes for ParticleSpring'.
12:41:20gokrA non ref type is simply a pure "value" and not a pointer to another memory region.
12:41:56gokrSo the seq[ParticleSpring] (if ParticleSpring is non ref type) will simply have consequtive memory chunks of the proper size for ParticleSpring.
12:42:59gokrSo the many calls to malloc can be removed - or at least turned into a very few. Right Araq?
12:43:47Araqright but it's not the memory allocations, you can usally move out of your hot loops
12:44:03Araqit's the memory indirections that 'ref' causes
12:44:09gokrright
12:44:40gokrmatkuki: I come from a lang where everything is a "ref", so I am not used to value type thinking either.
12:45:21Araqalso if you keep your data simple, you can run the "for every x: update(x)" in parallel
12:46:36Araqyou can try the same with seq[ParticleBase] but then it quickly becomes non-obvious whether the transformation is correct
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12:57:31matkukiAraq: Did you mean like this? https://bpaste.net/show/04382a22cd5f
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12:59:34Araqyeah that's much better. You can cut the boilerplate with generics and templates
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13:01:54Araqnext step would be to create an ID mechanism and then you're on the way to creating a component system
13:02:47softiniocoffeepot: I use a mac for development. In production Linux
13:03:32matkukiAraq: Thanks. I'm not familiar with this 'ID mechanism', any documentation on it?
13:05:22matkukiTo be honest, I have no clue what is this component system you mentioned :)
13:07:35Araqwell maybe you don't need it for your particles
13:07:39coffeepotsoftino: Ah I don't know anything about mac development so can't really comment on if anything is available in Nim for persistent service type stuff.
13:07:41coffeepotmatkuki: what you're writing looks interesting, will it be in 3D or 2D?
13:08:11matkukicofeepot: For now, strictly 2D.
13:08:21matkukisorry, coffeepot
13:10:47coffeepotdamnit lol :) I'm writing some 3D stuff atm that I'm hoping to turn into a library at some point, but my physics stuff is very disorganised so it's interesting seeing what you're doing
13:11:08matkukiIt's from the book: Game Physics Engine Development - Ian Millington
13:11:09matkukiGreat book.
13:11:47coffeepotI have a similar book 'physics for games' or something. I'll check out that one online, the more info the better!
13:11:58matkukiIt's written for a 3D engine, I'm adapting it to my purposes.
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13:13:44coffeepotI think I saw in the summer of code stuff last year that it might be possible to do a subset of Nim that compiles to GPU, rather like the parallel stuff. Does anyone know if that's still on the cards?
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13:16:40matkukigokr: Yep, I programmed alot in Python the last couple of years, had the same problem when starting with Nim :)
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13:17:27Araqcoffeepot: kind of, I'm trying to find people who can do it ;-)
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13:20:49matkukigokr: Uh, not what I need at the moment, but will look at it, thanks.
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13:39:50softiniohow production ready is the httpserver module?
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13:53:13Araqsoftinio: the async sever is used for nim's forum iirc
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13:57:08coffeepotAraq: Fair enough! I would help but am woefully inexperienced in language development and know nothing about GPU programming - yet. Having said that, I would like to learn the GPU stuff, might make some libraries for it at least if I get some time to hack it out
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14:55:53matkukisee ya
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15:09:00Araqcoffeepot: can you give me that template gist again that crashed the compiler?
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15:16:43coffeepotI think this is it, https://gist.github.com/coffeepots/9443d86b934cae5e02c0
15:17:05coffeepotnote that I now get a more reasonable error: internal error: proc has no result symbol
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15:24:51LeFFhas anyone tried doing compiler plugins yet?
15:25:23LeFFI'm confused about registerPlugin function, what are the string arguments that it takes?
15:28:09Araqhi LeFF
15:28:56Araqthe arguments are nimble-package-name, module-name, proc-name
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15:30:08Araqsystem.nim is in the stdlib package and we implement system.locals
15:30:17Araqso it's "stdlib", "system", "locals"
15:30:29LeFFhi, Araq, so... how can I run my custom transformation on each and every module in the whole code tree?
15:30:57Araqthat's not a compiler plugin
15:31:02Araqthat would be a "pass"
15:31:25coffeepotAraq: Putting in some of the missing details for that gist (ie; supplying the type for makeproc) gives a new internal error in evaltempl.nim at line 93 https://gist.github.com/coffeepots/f9c28c515ce039bb9cd3
15:32:44LeFFokey, I guess adding my custom pass to the compiler is not that trivial thing as plugins)?
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15:33:37Araqit's messy since the passes API will eventually disappear
15:34:04Araqwant do you want to do?
15:34:13coffeepotinterestingly, same error occurs when you supply the type for makeproc whether you pass tmpproc to 'a' or run tmpproc and return the result to 'a'. Anyway, my speculation is unlikely to be useful here, just found it interesting
15:34:40LeFFAraq, I want to add code obfuscation to the compiler.
15:35:04Araqwhy?
15:35:24Araqoptimized native code is as obfuscated as it can get
15:35:42softinioreading the tutorial on nim lang website
15:35:50softiniofinished part 1
15:36:01softiniois part 2 worth reading? Its says obsolete!
15:36:15Araqread it.
15:36:23Araqit's not that bad
15:36:35LeFFAraq, not that really for a skillful cracker/researcher. To make code protected from disassembly and restoration of the algorithms.
15:36:43softiniook will read it thanks @Araq
15:36:54softinioCan I say the docs are very well written
15:37:12coffeepotyeah I must say, love the nim docs too
15:37:25Araqthanks, gotta go. bbs
15:38:26AraqLeFF: stay a while, I can tell you how to write this pass
15:38:28coffeepotLeFF: how can you protect from disassembly?
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15:40:02LeFFcoffepot, I can encrypt static data/strings, add trash code, flatten control flow and etc... there's a lot of good algorithms of obfuscation.
15:40:23coffeepotcool, sounds interesting :)
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15:40:42LeFFI can even inline some asm code that will break common disasseblers)
15:41:05coffeepotwow, never would have thought of that!
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15:44:07coffeepoti once wrote something that was normally encrypted and after it decrypted itself in memory, it constantly checksummed itself and reset the PC if anything changed. Back then (~20 yrs ago) breakpoints would alter the code, triggering the reset. Fun project :D Doubt that'd be much use now though
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15:44:41coffeepotAnyway, sounds like yours is an interesting nim project :)
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15:56:49AraqLeFF: compiler/passaux.nim has a verbosePass that's the minimum of what you need to implement
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15:57:27Araqin main.nim there is this beauty:
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15:57:31Araqproc semanticPasses =
15:57:32Araq registerPass verbosePass
15:57:34Araq registerPass semPass
15:57:57Araqyou can add your pass here, after semPass so that symbol lookup and type checking has been performed
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15:58:40brillanhow do I generate docs for imported packages?
15:58:49LeFFAraq, thanks, I'll try it tomorrow. But you said that passes api is going to be deprecated?
15:59:35AraqLeFF: don't worry about it. will take years before I deprecate it...
16:00:03Araqbrillan: nim doc2 support a --project switch
16:00:06LeFFAraq, ok then, thanks.
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16:01:18brillanAraq: I've tried the --project switch. It shows a link to the sdl2 package, but when I click it I get "file not found"
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16:49:47Araqbrillan: dunno, I don't use --project. we have a script that generates all these docs
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17:01:53brillanAraq: ok
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18:03:12Mat4hello
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18:04:16LeFF_So I tried creating a hello world compiler pass and it worked.
18:05:15LeFF_Could you tell me where to find good examples on the api for creating and modifing PNode's?
18:08:47LeFF_PNode is defined in ast.nim and all the api I need is there too?
18:09:37AraqLeFF_: yeah, there are helpers all over the place. "astalgo" is quite important too
18:10:15Araqif you know Nim's macro system, you know nim's AST. the compiler uses the same AST.
18:13:47softiniowhats a PNode :-) ?
18:14:11Araqa NimNode
18:14:24Araqa node in Nim's AST
18:18:41LeFF_Araq, thanks! How can I add a new created PNode after or before existing PNode?
18:20:30Araqusually you don't, you return a new AST instead
18:20:58Araqthe passes API procs return a tranformed tree
18:21:39LeFF_So I just create nkStmtList with added PNodes and return it?
18:23:04LeFF_Araq, nevermind, at least now I know where to look for code)
18:23:40AraqLeFF_: yup
18:23:54Araqalso read this:
18:24:26Araqhttp://nim-lang.org/docs/intern.html#debugging-the-compiler
18:24:48LeFF_Araq, okey, thanks!
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18:25:18Araqand ignore the "git bisect" stuff.
18:25:34*Araq does not believe in bisect.
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18:45:05yglukhovHi all. How do i add one seq to another?
18:46:12yglukhovah, nevermind. seq.add is the answer %)
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19:14:17softinioso read tutorial parts i and II, what next do you guys recommend?
19:14:49softinioSo far everything clear. Only things I still need to get my head around and understand better are macros mainly and maybe little more about templates
19:16:28softiniopreferred way of installng nim on macos? Any reason not to use brew?
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19:34:48Araqdunno what brew's nim package does
19:36:48Araqsoftinio: next steps are usually to abuse user-definable operators and macros :-)
19:37:27softinioLooking at brews script it seems to do the right thing to install it see here for ref: https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew/blob/master/Library/Formula/nimrod.rb
19:38:33Araqoutdated
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19:39:12softiniook will remove brew install and install via git method u have detailed in the docs
19:39:32Araqnah, it's still fine I guess
19:40:12softiniowhat was outdated about it ?
19:40:50Araqit's not Araq/nim anymore
19:40:58Araqand it's not called nimrod anymore
19:42:23softiniobest to be using master branch or devel ?
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19:43:19Araqdevel
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20:13:02softiniounlike C or Go , nim doesn't seem to have a main() proc/func as the starting point of the app. Is that correct?
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20:16:22Araqyeah, every top level statement is run for you.
20:16:29Araqusually people do
20:16:36Araqproc main() = ...
20:16:37Araqmain()
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20:17:27softiniois there an offline manual?
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20:21:32Araqyou can build the manual as PDF
20:21:48softinionice
20:22:02enamexproc main() = main() ?? Something's fishy or...? Gonna look around.
20:23:48Araqrequires pdfrubber though
20:24:42Araqenamex: the three dots are essential and so is the indentation
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20:30:28softinio@Araq pdfrubber?
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20:32:30Araqthe malapropism is proportional to my appreciation
20:34:00Araq(you know it as "pdflatex")
20:34:41ldlework"She says like literally, music is the air that she breates. And the malaprops make here want to fucking scream."
20:34:53ldlework"I wonder if she knows what that word means... well its literally not... that."
20:35:00ldleworkbreathes*
20:36:14ldleworkhttp://open.spotify.com/track/5UXusQhn77o9f11H4NKFbM
20:37:28elrood*her ? ;)
20:38:12elroodand
20:38:17elrood*it's ? ;P
20:38:18ldleworkyup
20:39:03elroodsorry, couldn't resist
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20:39:18ldleworkReally good album btw
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21:02:33Araqso ... my mingw include has the right schannel.h file, but my mingw uses some other schannel.h from who knows where
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21:04:07Araqany ideas? can gcc output its search paths?
21:13:57elroodprint-search-dirs ?
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