<< 14-11-2013 >>
00:00:24MFlamerYeah. I'm learning alot, but not really fixing much
00:00:35filwitthat's good though
00:00:46filwitgotta know how it works
00:01:07filwiti've only taken a few looks at the compiler so far, but plan on doing more later
00:03:55MFlamerAre you in CA? I know someone was, but I forgot who
00:04:27filwitme? no, i'm in Florida not California
00:04:49MFlamerOh, cool. I'm i CA. Went to Tampa once
00:05:33filwitcool. I live in Tampa bay area. but i may move further south eventually
00:05:48filwiti was born in CA though, and live most my life in Oregon
00:06:02filwitsort..
00:06:04filwitsorta**
00:06:28MFlamerOh sweet. I like oregon. Have some family in Portland, lived there for a few months
00:07:11filwitcool. yeah i was either going to get a job in Portland, or in Florida. i chose sunshine, lol
00:07:26filwitOregon is nice, but to much rain in the Willamette valley
00:07:39filwitand not much going on in eastern oregon
00:09:24filwiti miss the mountains though
00:09:32filwitflorida is far to flat
00:10:42MFlamer:-)
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01:09:57freezerburnvI don't know who mentioned it, but someone a few days or something ago mentioned the website gamemath. Is the book on there good for learning that kind of thing? Or is there something better? (I'm a relative newbie to math and whatnot) (also sorry if this is super off topic, but just remembered to ask about it and people were talking about making a game in Nimrod around then as well)
01:13:41fowlfreezerburnv, it looks legit
01:16:12filwitnice find
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02:16:18webskipperdo we really need the * symbol for exportss ?
02:17:22webskipperdo we need exports at all (and if yes why?)
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02:20:27EXetoCwebskipper: usually it doesn't make sense to expose everything, such as helper functions and what have you
02:21:15EXetoCso everything that isn't exported remains inaccessible to other modules
02:24:40xenagiit's better than python's __dunder__ naming conventions
02:26:52webskipperin python its all public by default ?
02:28:46freezerburnvIn python everything is public and everything is mutable
02:29:00freezerburnvExcept tuples
02:29:07OrionPKexport everything and you have a lot more potential for conflicting names
02:29:34freezerburnv(and you can probably set stuff in tuples in some sneaky way, because python)
02:29:34EXetoCThere's no language support for private in python - it's just a convention, stating that everything beginning with an underscore is to be considered private
02:30:53webskipperah ok
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03:30:55xenagiyeah nothing is really private
03:31:10xenagiit's all public, but python won't implicitly import __dunder__ members
03:31:16xenagiyou have to explicitly import them
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04:55:32VarriountHm. Besides directly assigning a var the iterator type, is there ny other way to "explicitly instanciate" one?
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05:33:59fowlVarriount, no?
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11:26:43phil4macHow would one go about wrapping "termios.h" so that it could be used from nimrod to setup the parameters of a seral port, e.g. baudrate, parity etc...? I can find the functions tcgetattr, tcsetattr or ioctl in standard library.
11:27:00phil4mac* can't find
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12:09:33BitPuffinphil4mac: well maybe they exist under a different name. But basically what you would do is to run c2nim on the header
12:09:54BitPuffinand if that fails, modify the header to be in a way that c2nim would like
12:10:29phil4macat the moment c2min bombs out with a syntax error if I point it at the header.
12:12:46phil4macBitPuffin: is the the right way to be using it? ./c2nim /usr/include/termios.h --out:~/nim-test/termios.nim
12:16:16BitPuffinphil4mac: yeah I think that looks right unless you want specific optinos
12:16:40BitPuffinphil4mac: But yeah, the c2nim tool is picky about syntax. It only supports ANSI C, not C99 and C11
12:17:24phil4macBitPuffin: I'm not really familiar with process at all, should I just strip out bits which don't matter and don't get parsed properly then?
12:31:43BitPuffinphil4mac: if they aren't important sure
12:31:53BitPuffinotherwise just rewrite them in a way that c2nim understands
12:32:01BitPuffinbut usually it's safe to remove a whole bunch of stuff
12:35:16phil4macBitPuffin: ok thanks, I'll see how it goes
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15:30:32leexhi, I just started using nimrod and I get this error message while compiling: Error: for a 'var' type a variable needs to be passed
15:31:33leexthis is the line the compiler is complaining about: var p = (2 * (a.dot((b-m))))/(a.dot(a))
15:32:56OrionPKleex what is "dot"
15:33:36leexproc dot (v: var Vec, w: var Vec): float = return v.x * w.x + v.y * w.y + v.z * w.z
15:34:12OrionPKI would get rid of the "var" keword from the definition of dot
15:34:28leexok
15:34:34leexlet me try that
15:34:39BitPuffinyeah doesn't seem like you are modifying v anyway
15:35:38leexok, so I jsut need var if I am modifying the variable?
15:35:55OrionPKright
15:36:02leexOrionPK: thanks
15:36:38OrionPKalso you can make the parameters slightly more concise with proc dot (v w: Vec): float
15:36:46OrionPKsorry, proc dot (v, w: Vec): float
15:37:29OrionPKthats up to personal preference though
15:38:15leexcool
15:38:39OrionPKalso you dont need the "return" keyword for single statementl ike that ;)
15:38:55leexwhat is ** or ^ in nimrod? I tried *% but that seems to only work on ints
15:39:39Varriount Araq , ping
15:39:59leexOrionPK: I know, but I like explicitly returning from functions as a rubyist
15:40:23OrionPKwhat are you expecting ** and *% to do?
15:41:02leexOrionPK: oh, sry exponentiation
15:41:16OrionPK^ is pow, but you need to import math
15:41:24OrionPKthis might come in handy: http://nimrod-code.org/theindex.html
15:42:00OrionPKyou can write an alias for pow like this template `^`(x,y: stmt): stmt = pow(x,y)
15:42:10OrionPKidk if that compiles exactly, but something like that should do the trick
15:43:00Varriountleex, in case you're wondering why you need to import math, it's because it means that less dead code has to be eliminated.
15:43:12OrionPKafk
15:43:19leexOrionPK: thanks :)
15:43:28leexVarriount: makes sense
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16:07:02VarriountANyone know what the deal is with iterators and typedescs?
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16:47:05webskipperI have a question about module import. If A is imported, that imports B, that imports C. (A<-B<-C) Is a proc defined in C viewable for A in Nimrod ?
16:48:39OrionPKnot automatically, unless B exports C
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17:19:52webskipperOrionPK: hmm, it is possible to export a whole module ?
17:22:20webskipperbtw for me its ok if it is not viewable for A. Hierarchies are good.
17:22:44VarriountAnyone know why I get an error from this code? -> https://gist.github.com/Varriount/7470706
17:25:37webskipperwhat error ?
17:27:03VarriountCannot instantiate 'T'
17:27:43Varriountwebskipper, do you not recieve an error when trying to run that code?
17:28:36webskippermom
17:29:18VarriountHuh?
17:30:03webskippery get the same
17:32:37webskipperis intSeq built-in type ?
17:33:13VarriountNo, it's a variable.
17:33:46VarriountSorry, intSeq should be cycleSeq
17:38:07webskipperyou dont use iT ?
17:38:50VarriountI use it in the procedure parameters.
17:39:28webskipper[iT, rT] is it (iT AND rT) or (iT OR rT) ?
17:39:57VarriountIt's it AND rT
17:47:37fowlVarriount, would it kill you to use words instead of iT, rT
17:48:12VarriountI just follow convention. If you want me to use words from now on, I will.
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17:49:10fowlit and rt are indistinguishable to me
17:49:25fowlalso when you gist select nimrod as the language so you have syntax highlighting
17:50:05VarriountThere. Updated.
17:54:16fowlinstead of two var cont lines
17:54:30fowlvar cont: seq[returnType] = @[]
17:54:54fowlthat causes segfault tho, for some reason
17:56:06VarriountAs does var cont = newSeq[returnType]()
17:58:13VarriountThe aggravating thing is, I don't know how to fix it.
18:00:27fowlcompile the compiler in debug mode
18:00:55fowlthen you have a backtrace
18:00:57fowlbbl
18:01:06VarriountI have. If I do var cont = newSeq[returnType], it doesn't segfault, it just errors.
18:01:22webskipperc:\lang\nimrod\lib\system.nim(388, 14) Error: cannot instantiate: 'T'
18:01:22VarriountCannot instanciate var t
18:01:43Varriountwebskipper, that's the line of the newSeq function
18:02:52webskipperVarriount: so caused by var cont = newSeq[rT]() ?
18:03:40VarriountYes.
18:03:45webskippervar cont = newSeq[int]() ?
18:04:05webskipperis it possible to instantiate from int ?
18:04:31VarriountBy passing "int", I would make the sequence returned a sequence of integers
18:04:51webskippery but T = int I guess
18:05:02VarriountOnly in this case.
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18:15:07fowlVarriount, so report it
18:15:46VarriountI will, but I would like to find out *why* it's acting the way it is in the first place.
18:23:26MFlamerHi nimbros. zahary: What's the idea with skipTypes() in the compiler? Its used every where. Looks like it recurses into a node, but I dont quite get the pattern
18:24:28leexis it possible for a function to return nil as well as an array? if ... return nil ... return array
18:25:21MFlamerzahary: I'm wondering if it might help with stuff like this "n.sym.ast.sym.ast.kind == nkSym and n.sym.ast.sym.ast.sym.kind == skType: "
18:25:45Varriountleex, I believe so. If the result variable (which is the implicit return variable) doesn't get set or assigned to, it's nil automatically.
18:25:57fowlleex, nil refers to null pointers/references
18:26:17fowlVarriount, no, its an initialized array of 0s (or blank objects)
18:27:44fowlreturn TMaybe[TArrayType]
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18:30:41*Varriount wishes he could compile the compiler with --debugger:on
18:31:35leexthe error messages are a myth to me :D
18:31:50VarriountHuh?
18:32:30leexyeah, I guess because I still don't know enough about nimrod
18:33:35Varriountleex, most of nimrod is pretty solid, with the exception of iterators and generics (Which I can understand, both are pretty complex and complicated to implement)
18:35:22zaharyMFlamer: you probably have noticed that certain types act just like modifiers for other types. i.e. tyVar(tyFloat)
18:36:08zaharyskipTypes is able to ignore such modifiers and get to the "root" of the type (you say what you want to ignore)
18:37:27Varriountzahary, is there anything I can do to allow the compiler to properly generate generic procedures that call other generic procedures using a generic parameter?
18:39:19VarriountAlso, is there any way to easily print out the a representation of a PNode to the console? echo(repr()) just hangs.
18:42:11zaharyPNodes within the compiler are best printed with the debug function
18:42:25zaharydebug n
18:42:26zaharyit also works for types and symbols
18:43:20VarriountAh, thanks. What about the generic parameter problem? I'm just frustrated - I see bugs, but nothing that I can fix. :/
18:43:45zaharyregarding the generics problem, can you send a gist? I can't quite imagine what you mean
18:44:17VarriountHere, zahary -> https://gist.github.com/Varriount/7471540
18:44:19zaharyI can give you some easy tasks; the `is` operator doesn't work quite well and it's very easy to improve
18:44:50zaharywell, this should work. let me try it
18:47:43zaharystrange, I'm surprised we don't have a test case like this
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18:56:07MFlamerthanks zahary
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19:01:46leexhmm, how to I return an array? http://pastebin.com/qndsZiqH doesn't seem to work
19:02:12Varriountarray[float]
19:02:23Varriountyou have to specify the values held in the array
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19:06:37leexVarriount: Error: array expects two type parameters, so I guess I have to specify the length too?
19:08:06VarriountAh, yes.
19:08:31VarriountIf you need something with a dynamic length, use sequences (the seq type)
19:10:26leexVarriount: thanks, that was what I was looking for
19:21:37fowlleex, you should read the tutorial
19:31:48VarriountAnd/or the manual
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19:33:18leexfowl: I skimmed thru :/
19:33:31BitPuffinahergafergh!!!
19:35:17BitPuffinhey alex_nx Amrykid Araq Boscop C0C0 capisce comex DAddYE dom96 dymk eigenlicht fowl freezerburnv ics isenmann Jackneill jdp JStoker krusipo leex mal`` MFlamer mkb musicalchair noam__ olahol orbitz OrionPK q66 Raynes reactormonk Reisen Ricky_Ricardo rndbit Roin shodan45 silven Trixar_za tumak Varriount XAMPP zahary zahary and Zor_!
19:35:20BitPuffinand NimBot
19:35:37q66stop.
19:35:39BitPuffin:D
19:35:43dom96don't do that
19:35:52BitPuffinyou guys should be flattered
19:35:52dom96ever again
19:36:00BitPuffinI typed your names
19:36:17BitPuffindom96: you are so ungrateful :(
19:36:23q66wait, you typed them out?
19:36:31q66do you even /names
19:36:45BitPuffinnaw
19:36:47BitPuffinI typed
19:36:52BitPuffinbecause I'm a nice guy
19:37:46BitPuffintreatin you with the respect you all deserve
19:38:00BitPuffinand what do I get?? pure hatred :'(
19:38:33BitPuffinvaluable lesson
19:39:03q66i hope the lesson is, "don't ever mass-ping people again"
19:39:40BitPuffinThe lesson is that none of you will get anything for christmas
19:40:01BitPuffinwell at least not you and dom
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19:40:12BitPuffinahoy familiar125!
19:40:15BitPuffinwelcome to the ship
19:40:37VarriountHm. What is PObject? I can't seem to find its' definition in the compiler files.
19:40:48familiar125bitpuffin it's OrionPK
19:41:01familiar125just testing my IRC web client written in nimrod :)
19:41:02BitPuffinVarriount: maybe it's not defined in the compiler :o
19:41:17BitPuffinVarriount: But it's probably a ref TObject
19:41:33VarriountOk, but what are it's characteristics?
19:41:34BitPuffinfamiliar125: that name sounds familiar!! HAR HAR
19:41:44BitPuffinVarriount: it is a reference to a TObject?
19:41:50dom96Varriount: It's probably defined in system.
19:41:58BitPuffinand TObject is the root object
19:42:02BitPuffinthat most things inherit from
19:42:10BitPuffinso you can take references of anything I guess
19:42:23BitPuffinfamiliar125: awesome that you are making an irc client. Is it open sauce??
19:42:37q66<BitPuffin> The lesson is that none of you will get anything for christmas
19:42:37q66<BitPuffin> well at least not you and dom
19:42:37q66aw
19:42:42q66but i had a present for you :(
19:42:53q66i guess here you go http://akk.li/pics/anne.jpg
19:43:09familiar125It will be open source.. but not til it's closer to being done, and not until a couple compiler/stdlib tweaks I've changed are fixed/included in nimrod
19:43:14BitPuffinq66: I'm not even gonna look!
19:43:35BitPuffinfamiliar125: ah, cool! Under what license?
19:43:42q66BitPuffin, why not :D
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19:43:54BitPuffinq66: because I cannot trust you with links :P
19:43:58q66:(
19:44:49*dom96 's original plan was to use Nimrod for an IRC client
19:44:57familiar125MIT probably
19:44:59familiar125https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/417554/familiar.jpg
19:45:00BitPuffinq66: apparently it's a creepy thing :P
19:45:20BitPuffinfamiliar125: looks great
19:45:21dom96familiar125: sexy
19:45:31dom96familiar125: Needs a margin like in xchat though :P
19:45:32BitPuffinfamiliar125: why not cc0? join the revolution >.<
19:45:43BitPuffindom96: what are you even talking about :P
19:45:51familiar125dom96 a margin?
19:45:53q66>any CC license
19:45:54q66BitPuffin pls
19:46:06q66CC licenses are ugly and convoluted and useless for anything but artwork
19:46:12BitPuffinq66: not CC0
19:46:17BitPuffinq66: CC0 > MIT
19:46:21q66no.
19:46:38BitPuffinq66: with CC0 if someone uses my library they do not need to distribute it with the license
19:46:47q66and that's a good thing?
19:46:48dom96er, I mean there should be a line and the nicks should be right aligned to it, with the messages left aligned.
19:46:51q66i don't think so
19:46:52BitPuffinq66: yes
19:47:05BitPuffinq66: well then silence :P
19:47:28q66so someone uses my library without doing the least they can do, aka give me some credit
19:47:32q66fuck that shit :P
19:47:36BitPuffinq66: But yeah other CC licenses are not really all that nice for software
19:47:48BitPuffinbut CC0 is the best license for putting software in the public domain
19:48:02q66MIT != public domain
19:48:03BitPuffinq66: well then if that's the way you roll then that's the way you roll
19:48:08BitPuffinq66: I know
19:48:10q66i wouldn't put anything into public domain unless it's a small piece of code
19:48:14BitPuffinit's kind of obvious
19:48:19BitPuffinthat it's not public domain you know
19:48:28q66e.g. if i write a tiny but helpful script and decide to publish it it's public domain
19:48:31familiar125dom96 ahh, I see what you're saying..
19:48:32q66anything else, nah.
19:48:34BitPuffinbut thank you I am now enlightened because that was really hard to figure out, you cracked the code
19:48:46familiar125that would probably require using a table though, and right now I'm using flexbox
19:48:54BitPuffinq66: in that case CC0 is the best way
19:49:00q66no
19:49:03BitPuffinbecause public domain does not apply everywhere
19:49:07q66CC0 is still longer text-wise than MIT even :P
19:49:13BitPuffinyeah of course
19:49:19familiar125dom96 actually, there are some other ways I could do it, I'll add it to my wishlist as I kind of like the margin as well
19:49:24BitPuffinbecause it has to cover countries that don't have the concept of a public domain
19:49:28q66http://unlicense.org/
19:49:36q66a bit shorter than CC0
19:49:40dom96familiar125: yeah, NimBot's IRC logs use a table.
19:49:42q66about as long as MIT i think
19:49:49BitPuffinq66: I used to use unlicense, but I stopped
19:49:59BitPuffinbecause it's not clear enough about what applies when there is not a public domain
19:50:05q66http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beerware is a good choice
19:50:09BitPuffinbecause it borders on ambigouus
19:50:26BitPuffindoesn't mention anything about warranty though
19:50:39familiar125dom96 I also want this to work well on mobile devices
19:50:40BitPuffincc0 is written by people who know their legal stuff
19:50:44BitPuffinnot so much with unlicense
19:50:49BitPuffinbut I like the initiative of the unlicense
19:50:57q66CC licenses are ugly and convoluted
19:51:01BitPuffinit's just not a good choice
19:51:10BitPuffinq66: who gives a fuck about how a license look though
19:51:12q66I won't support creative commons in anything unless it's art because there it's fairly common
19:51:15familiar125maybe even configure it to automatically email you chat summaries that mention you :D
19:51:23BitPuffindefine support
19:51:27BitPuffinyou aren't giving them money
19:51:29q66use their stuff
19:51:49BitPuffinyou are just leveraging their work to assure that your software is as unrestricted as possible in every country
19:51:50dom96familiar125: hrm, so it will be like a BNC but with a web interface?
19:52:12familiar125I've never used BNC
19:52:18q66i don't care anyways
19:52:21q66i just use MIT for most stuff
19:52:26q66and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Illinois/NCSA_Open_Source_License for large things)
19:52:28familiar125brb
19:52:56BitPuffinsure, but I want to put my software in the public domain. And CC0 is the best one for doing that
19:53:09BitPuffinif there was another one that was shorter but still as guaranteed to work I'd use it
19:53:11BitPuffinand unlicense isn't
19:53:13BitPuffinsad but true
19:53:25q66there is no drawback in using unlicense over CC0
19:53:33BitPuffinexcept there is
19:53:50BitPuffinwell there probably won't be any Ig g
19:53:54BitPuffinguess because nobody will care
19:54:08BitPuffinbut still
19:54:11q66name one
19:54:18BitPuffina drawback?
19:54:21q66yeah
19:54:48familiar125dom96 but yea a bit like a bouncer
19:54:53q66http://codepad.org/MGrBtnCB this text is obviously bullshit
19:54:59familiar125im going to host familiar on my raspberry PI hopefully
19:55:10familiar125and have it exposed on a public port
19:55:17dom96familiar125: Awesome, I will use it then :)
19:55:22BitPuffinq66: because it is basically copy pasting from other licenses and it's not well written to be a license to put your software in the public domain
19:55:23familiar125cool!:)
19:55:35BitPuffinq66: so it's not clear about what applies when you can't put your software in the public domain
19:55:40q66BitPuffin, do you have any proof of a loophole in unlicense
19:55:42familiar125dom96 now you just need to fix HTTPServer so I can open source it :P
19:56:00BitPuffinsure you can argue that you can interpret the you are free to do bla bla bla as being true in any country
19:56:06BitPuffinbut you shouldn't need to argue
19:56:10BitPuffinbecause it should be explicit
19:56:14BitPuffinand it isn't
19:56:28q66<q66> BitPuffin, do you have any proof of a loophole in unlicense
19:56:34VarriountOk... where are generic parameters added to the scope...
19:56:37*OrionPK joined #nimrod
19:57:05BitPuffinq66: well considering it is written by programmers instead of people who know the law I'm certain there is one :P I'd rather trust a license written by people who know how to write legal documents
19:57:15q66so you don't
19:57:23BitPuffinno but why would I risk it?
19:57:34BitPuffinwhen the CC0 is more explicit and well written
19:57:35q66there is no risk
19:57:37VarriountWould you two please stop bickering, and just agree that the other is wrong?
19:57:40q66CC0 is not well written
19:57:44q66CC0 is convoluted to the max
19:58:08BitPuffinCC0 is well written
19:58:12BitPuffinas a legal text
19:58:23BitPuffinUnlicense is a copy paste
19:58:28BitPuffinit's like copying and pasting PHP
19:58:30BitPuffinit's not reliable
19:58:43q66it's as reliable as any other license
19:58:53BitPuffinno
19:58:54q66it's not any less reliable than e.g. MIT or the BSD licenses
19:58:59q66which are widely used in software projects
19:59:15q66and FWIW, it's fucking public domain
19:59:41BitPuffinjust because it is copying and pasting from other licenses that are well written does not mean that they work well together
19:59:44q66anyway i don't have time for this shit, would you kindly shut your mouth now, before my head starts to hurt :P
20:00:28BitPuffinthat's like saying yeah I copied these lines from the linux kernel, and this line from webkit, and these two functions from apache, I bet it's gonna be a great reliable piece of software now
20:00:43*q66 facedesks
20:00:53BitPuffinq66: you started the fucking discussion so don't come talking about how you don't have time for it
20:01:26OrionPKbitpuffin I honestly havent given it much thought
20:01:28q66a discussion where you simply negate my previous statement is not constructive, therefore I don't intend to participate in it any further
20:02:00*familiar125 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
20:02:01VarriountHm, I wonder who is Op.. dom96 ?
20:02:09q66or alternatively simply keep repeating what you said 10 times before
20:02:18*familiar125 joined #nimrod
20:02:49*familiar125 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
20:02:53BitPuffinq66: well don't act like you didn't negate what I said and that you presented good arguments for why what you were saying was true either
20:03:23q66all you presented to me was highly opinionated stuff with no factual value whatsoever
20:03:24BitPuffinq66: In fact I at least presented some arguments. You simply said that it's that way without anything to support it
20:03:27BitPuffinanyways whatever
20:03:31Varriountdom96, ping
20:03:43BitPuffinq66: that's what you did
20:03:51BitPuffinI explained why I trust CC0 more than Unlicense
20:03:58BitPuffinyou didn't explain anything
20:04:10OrionPKbitpuffin when I see licenses, my eyes glaze over
20:04:17dom96Varriount: yes, i'm op.
20:07:11BitPuffinOrionPK: sure, I am the same but maybe not as much. But I want to ensure that I do what I intended
20:11:19Roinuh who hl'ed me?
20:11:38*Varriount points at BitPuffin
20:12:35Varriountzahary, about that generic params bug I just showed you, I don't suppose there's an easy fix that I could implement? If not, what was that thing concerning the 'is' operator?
20:13:03BitPuffinRoin: don't risk your christmas gift
20:13:38Roino_o
20:14:23BitPuffinRoin: seems like you are gonna be just fine :D
20:14:31VarriountBitPuffin, you're assuming he celebrates Christmas.
20:14:45BitPuffinwell okay hannukah gifts
20:14:50BitPuffinor the other types of gifts
20:14:57BitPuffinVarriount: I'm sorry ;_;
20:15:08*Varriount celebrates Christmas.
20:17:55RoinI celebrate christmas
20:18:09Roinbut this year it will be a small one, I only want a guitar stand xD
20:19:07BitPuffin:P
20:19:23BitPuffinI already have one :D
20:22:34dom96I don't even have a guitar :\
20:23:26Varriount:O
20:23:43*Varriount didn't know you could use gdb breakpoints with nimrod...
20:25:50BitPuffindom96: but can you play one?
20:26:28dom96BitPuffin: Yeah... you just pull the strings right? :P
20:26:37BitPuffindom96: :P
20:26:56BitPuffindom96: you could have gotten one for christmas, but now you probably won't
20:27:22dom96:(
20:27:30BitPuffinit's what happens
20:27:46BitPuffinI think we should all give Araq something for christmas
20:28:04BitPuffinor hannukah
20:28:07BitPuffinor something else
20:28:18BitPuffindepending on what kind of guy he is
20:29:28BitPuffinlet's compile nimrod, and burn it to a cd, and send it to him >.<
20:30:02dom96lol, I don't think Araq is Jewish.
20:30:38BitPuffindom96: so you are saying it would be wrong if he was? How racist of you :/
20:31:38*Varriount hits BitPuffin on the head.
20:31:39dom96What about the other religions? You've totally missed them out, how insensitive of you :P
20:32:03BitPuffindom96: I did say or something else!
20:32:08*BitPuffin cries
20:32:26*BitPuffin punches Varriount on his toe
20:33:17dom96BitPuffin: not good enough
20:33:22dom96why do those two get priority!?
20:33:46BitPuffindom96: because I don't know the other christmas/hannukah variants ;_;
20:33:51BitPuffinI'm not a religion guy
20:34:30BitPuffindom96: do you like death metal?
20:34:39dom96no
20:34:44BitPuffinaww
20:34:50dom96kpop ftw
20:34:52dom96lol
20:34:59BitPuffinoh no :(
20:35:19dom96Nah, I don't really listen to kpop much
20:35:20dom96http://www.last.fm/user/dom96
20:35:39BitPuffinkpop fans are almost on or if not even the same level as bronies
20:35:43dom96And latest update broke Spotify a bit ughr
20:36:14dom96Are you saying bronies are bad people? :P
20:36:28BitPuffinno I'm saying that they are horrible people
20:36:34BitPuffin:D
20:36:39*MFlamer quit (Remote host closed the connection)
20:37:53dom96comex is a brony :P
20:38:05Varriountzahary, ping
20:38:18dom96Anyway, you can see exactly what I am listening to on Last.fm
20:38:42*BitPuffin stalks dom96
20:39:43*BitPuffin weeps for comex
20:40:10dom96I listen to really depressing music usually :P
20:40:17dom96with no vocals
20:40:35BitPuffindom96: you are such an emo xD
20:40:52VarriountHm. What is the opposite of an emo?
20:40:53OrionPKwhen i was ur age, it was all about GNR
20:41:00dom96lol nah, don't emos listen to MCR or something?
20:41:04*Jackneill quit (Remote host closed the connection)
20:41:27BitPuffinVarriount: an ome
20:41:51BitPuffindom96: I guess!
20:42:18BitPuffindom96: music with lyrics is too distracting when coding, so maybe your last.fm can be useful
20:42:20BitPuffinunless it sucks
20:42:34dom96Yeah, precisely.
20:42:50BitPuffinhttp://spawnofpossession.bandcamp.com/ < that album never gets old. Some kind of black magic going on
20:42:55dom96I sing along to music which has lyrics
20:43:06BitPuffindom96: I sing along to that album
20:43:16dom96Listen to the song i'm currently listening to :P
20:43:20OrionPKlot of good swedish musics
20:44:03*NimBot joined #nimrod
20:44:04OrionPKroyksopp > swedish music though
20:44:04BitPuffintrue story actually http://youtu.be/rDaB9ZfBGRg
20:44:09VarriountCould you also fix the one that makes me have to do a manual deletion of csources\.git on windows?
20:44:30zaharyVarriount: the `is` operator is supposed to check wether a variable matches a certain type
20:44:37dom96OrionPK: oh yes, Royksopp is good if I'm not mixing them up with someone else.
20:44:52BitPuffinOrionPK: do you listen to SOP?
20:44:53OrionPKthey're my favorite
20:44:58zaharyit's broken is many situations like (10 is int) # 10 is considered a range type or something like that
20:45:03OrionPKSOP?
20:45:11BitPuffinOrionPK: spawn of possession
20:45:15OrionPKnever heard of them before
20:45:21BitPuffinOrionPK: oh boy you are so welcome
20:45:34OrionPKIm not a bigg death metal guy
20:45:34OrionPK:P
20:45:35zaharyit doesn't work with pseudo types such as x is tuple, x is proc, etc
20:45:50BitPuffinOrionPK: does NOT matter
20:45:50dom96BitPuffin: Enter Shikari
20:45:56OrionPKlol
20:46:06dom96BitPuffin: Ever listened to them?
20:46:13OrionPKwhen I say swedish music
20:46:21BitPuffindom96: I can't remember if I maybe saw them live
20:46:29OrionPKI mean more like... karin driejer andersson
20:46:30dom96Varriount: Bug report on github please
20:47:05dom96I'm going to see Thirty Seconds to Mars soon :)
20:47:34OrionPKwith jared leto?
20:47:54dom96Dunno. Would they be able to play without him?
20:48:07OrionPKbitpuffin have you seen dethklok?
20:48:19BitPuffinOrionPK: nope
20:48:35BitPuffinhttp://youtu.be/Z8GBfs511yY < me singing
20:48:36OrionPKit's a cartoon
20:48:38OrionPKhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UosmKd1krWU
20:49:00OrionPKpoking fun at norwegian death metal
20:49:08dom96oh yeah, I have listened to Royksopp.
20:49:19BitPuffinOrionPK: sounds fun :D
20:49:36dom96It's indeed the kind of music that I am into.
20:49:44OrionPKhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51Bpx63wkbA
20:49:59dom96You guys should listen to some good ol' Polish disco polo.
20:50:14Araqhi leex welcome
20:50:23OrionPKi like australian-nudisco
20:50:37OrionPKbag raiders, miami horror, cut copy
20:50:40Araqso .. anything I missed?
20:50:43*dom96 should ask gradha about what he thinks of disco polo
20:51:00Araqexcept these very useful youtube links of course
20:51:19OrionPKgotta have a soundtrack to your coding, araq
20:51:24dom96Araq: BitPuffin will send you the Nimrod compiler on a CD as a Christmas present.
20:51:42Araqmeh ... no floppy version?
20:52:09VarriountAraq, you might have missed the finding of another generic bug.
20:52:31BitPuffinAraq: that could be arranged
20:52:36BitPuffinI have a floppy reader
20:52:40BitPuffinI wonder if that can write
20:52:52BitPuffinOrionPK: it's actually kind of catchy
20:53:01BitPuffin(dethklok)
20:53:14OrionPKhehe
20:53:30OrionPKbitpuffin look for the duncan hills coffee jingle
20:53:33OrionPKby dethklok
20:53:43AraqBitPuffin: but it needs to be able to *run* from floppy ... (insert disk 5 now for the compiling to proceed)
20:54:14BitPuffinAraq: that will be arranged :P
20:55:06BitPuffinlast link I'm gonna send of me: http://youtu.be/VQXXLabeOfg
20:55:26BitPuffindom96: so yeah, lyrics is not a good idea when you wanna code :D
20:55:46Araqmeh I'll simply use Mat2's "'let' not supported due to 8K limit"-compiler instead ... ;-)
20:56:09BitPuffinhaha :P
20:56:11BitPuffinis that done?
20:56:59BitPuffinNow you all at least know how to recognize me at nimcon
20:57:51leexAraq: hi
20:57:56BitPuffinOrionPK: seriously though listen to SOP
20:58:04BitPuffinOrionPK: it will be the best decision you ever make
20:58:17OrionPKperhaps
20:59:26BitPuffinOrionPK: and I know, it's hard to swallow, takes a few listens until it really sticks, and after that it'll never let go
20:59:58VarriountAnyone here from Canada?
21:00:00OrionPKi'll listen to as much as i can stand
21:00:11AraqVarriount: bug #673 looks like a regression. can anyone confirm?
21:00:28VarriountWell, a regression from what point in time?
21:00:35Araq0.9.2 *cough*
21:02:16BitPuffinOrionPK: I think my favorite track is deus avertat
21:02:26BitPuffinOrionPK: but I dunno, they are all so good
21:02:53BitPuffinthe only one that never really stuck as hard as being intensely unique and mind blowing is the second track
21:03:00BitPuffinbut it's still fucking awesome
21:03:06BitPuffinand the solo is amazing
21:07:31VarriountAraq, if by 9.2, you mean the version available on the website, that version has the bug as well.
21:10:22VarriountUnfortunately, that bug prevent's my itertools module from compiling. I would fix it, if I had more than a vague guess as to where the trouble is.
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21:17:39BitPuffinAraq: why not create a nimrod twitter account?
21:17:47BitPuffinthat posts links to all the nimrod articles
21:17:59BitPuffinif we are gonna roll with this 1 article/week thing
21:18:20BitPuffinwe could even write a nimrod program that updates everything
21:18:43BitPuffinie posts to twitter, posts to reddit, posts to whatever
21:18:44BitPuffinHN
21:20:17Araqwho writes 1 article/week? I barely manage to write 1 per 3 months and even this is taking precious time that I could work on the compiler instead
21:20:43BitPuffinAraq: me, dom96, and some other people
21:20:48BitPuffinwe are gonna try and time it
21:21:06BitPuffinso that we are omnipresent in the social media
21:22:48dom96yeah, maybe we should start to time it.
21:22:53dom96We don't really have a plan for this currently.
21:23:15dom96would be nice to create some sort of schedule
21:23:36BitPuffinyup
21:23:41BitPuffinor pseudo schedule
21:23:42dom96"Monday 18th: BitPuffin's article"
21:23:58BitPuffinlike weekend of week 1
21:24:03BitPuffinweekend of week 3
21:24:04dom96"Monday 25th: My article"
21:24:04BitPuffinetc
21:24:14dom96And if you miss the deadline I will haunt you down.
21:24:22Araqvoluntary work doesn't work this way
21:24:31Araqbut sure go ahead and try it
21:24:35BitPuffinexactly, that's why I say pseudo schedule
21:24:46BitPuffinso sometime around this time this person should post an article
21:25:49BitPuffinthere is no hard coded millisecond it must be up in order to instakill said person
21:25:53BitPuffinto not*
21:27:11Araqdom96: what about https://github.com/Araq/Nimrod/pull/655 ?
21:27:36Araqwhat kind of migration path should we use? remove 'select' from sockets so stuff breaks?
21:28:00dom96I think we discussed an 'events' module where 'select()' will be moved to
21:28:24dom96but is 'events' really the best name?
21:29:13Araqwe already have an 'events' module iirc
21:29:38*freezerburnv quit (Quit: freezerburnv)
21:29:40Araqperhaps name it iodisp ...
21:30:12dom96or just name it 'select'?
21:30:46Araqthis sounds like trouble until we fixed the symbol table handling
21:32:52dom96call it poll then or something
21:33:59Araqwell ... do you know how to abstract over epoll and crap?
21:34:24Araqeverybody says he mustn't use select or we cannot SCALE
21:34:51BitPuffinAraq: what's your opinion of namespaces?
21:35:12AraqBitPuffin: nimrod has them. they are called "modules"
21:35:14dom96Araq: Yes, i've already done it: https://github.com/Araq/Nimrod/blob/38fb6819702e9288ecd48ae4550f33aa148b5795/lib/pure/selectors.nim
21:35:52dom96It's not finished yet though.
21:36:22BitPuffinAraq: :P well I mean other than modules. namespaces inside modules. Horrible?
21:36:24dom96I wanted to make it as efficient as possible but it looks like I will need to use a TTable for the epoll implementation too.
21:41:42Araqok, well I have no other idea either
21:41:53OrionPKwhats the current events module do
21:56:38OrionPKlol bitpuffin... i have those headphones
21:57:18OrionPKthat fucking hair, jesus
21:57:26*Demos joined #nimrod
21:59:37BitPuffinOrionPK: hehe :) we are headphone bros
21:59:42BitPuffinOrionPK: what about my hair ;_;
22:02:28BitPuffinOrionPK: I have new headphones incoming though, for mixing. Will probably keep using these for gaming and maybe bass mixing
22:02:57OrionPKyour hair looks like you're auditioning to be in children of men
22:03:26OrionPKthey're not great headphones, but they have a mic which is important for gamin
22:03:49BitPuffin</3
22:05:08BitPuffinI think they are pretty good for what you are paying
22:05:20OrionPKyeah definitely
22:05:25OrionPKI just mean in the grand scale of things
22:05:33BitPuffinI guess
22:05:42BitPuffinmaybe I'll feel differently when my new headphones arrive
22:06:03Demoswhat headset
22:06:07DemosI love my G930
22:06:17OrionPKsteelseries
22:06:32Demosand my logitech UE for teh musicz
22:06:32OrionPKsiberia v2?
22:06:56BitPuffinOrionPK: KRK KNS-8400
22:07:09BitPuffinit's not a gaming headset
22:07:13BitPuffinit's just headphones
22:07:20BitPuffinI have studio microphones that I use anyway
22:07:26OrionPKyeah
22:07:40BitPuffinmight use my incoming shotgun mic while talking on skype etc when I'm not field recording
22:07:47BitPuffinso that keyboard presses aren't caught
22:07:48Demosany hardware that is a "gameing" suchandsuch usually sucks
22:08:03BitPuffinvery true
22:08:05OrionPKmye penger
22:08:32DemosI have bought two razer products both of which fuction, but are kinda awkward
22:08:57OrionPKive been looking @ AKG, K702 and K550
22:09:32BitPuffinDemos: I don't like razer at all
22:09:46BitPuffinI don't like the bi-handed design thing whatever it is called
22:09:53BitPuffinfor mice I mean
22:10:10BitPuffinOrionPK: If you want I can give you a verdict on the headphones when they arrive
22:11:06DemosI have a naga(or mamba or some kind of mouse, the 5 button wireless one) that works wirelessly 50% of the time and has trouble chargeing when not in the dock
22:11:32BitPuffinOrionPK: the K702 is damn expensive :P
22:11:57BitPuffinI wish there was some kind of top quality mouse
22:12:01BitPuffinlike with keyboards
22:12:18Demosthere do exist good mice
22:12:26DemosI loved my old logitech mouse
22:12:26BitPuffinUnicomp, filco etc
22:12:28BitPuffinlike those
22:12:44BitPuffinDemos: yeah my logitech mouse is probably the among the best in terms of quality
22:12:55Demosyeah, mine lost acceracy after ~5 years
22:12:58BitPuffinbut that logitech sets the standard for mouse quality is kind of weird
22:13:03Demosgot a razer, not as good
22:13:10OrionPKbitpuffin yeah K702 is pricey
22:13:13DemosI mean it is functional but not quite as nice
22:13:35BitPuffinI think razer mice are garbage more or less
22:13:39BitPuffinthey look pretty cool
22:13:40OrionPK701 are beautifulo
22:13:42BitPuffinbut who gives a shit :P
22:13:54OrionPK(i think razers look like shit too)
22:13:59Demosalso, the rubber on the side of the mouse falls off
22:14:10BitPuffinOrionPK: yeah I guess they aren't THAT good looking really :P
22:14:16BitPuffinhonestly my logitech looks better
22:14:18Demoswell in gameing hardwaisre the closer it looks to a cylon raider the better it
22:14:28DemosI accedently my trackpad
22:14:30OrionPKyeah i have a logitech as well
22:14:37BitPuffinOrionPK: my headphones that I bought are in the same price range as the K550
22:15:10OrionPKlogitech M500
22:15:30BitPuffinI have a G500
22:15:32BitPuffinwell two actually
22:16:04OrionPKi dont get why they have to make something ugly in order to appeal to gamers
22:16:37Demoswell glowey bits sell more than real solid hardware
22:17:11OrionPKbitpuffin http://www.iphones.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/AKG-Q-701-green-she.jpg
22:18:32BitPuffinOrionPK: they are pretty huge
22:19:15OrionPKhuge is good
22:20:28BitPuffinsure
22:21:08fowlhi
22:21:37BitPuffinhey fowl
22:25:47BitPuffinOrionPK: apparently people say the 702s are uncomfortable
22:26:27*Demos quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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22:33:34dom96gradha: Do you like disco polo?
22:33:51gradhano idea, is that a drink?
22:37:47dom96no, it's a type of music
22:38:04gradhaI'm sure it can't compete with baby metal
22:38:12BitPuffinugh
22:38:30dom96it was (still is?) pretty popular in Poland
22:38:42gradhathe world needs baby metal songs sung by vocaloids
22:38:59gradhadom96: remember that I was born there, but I know nothing about it
22:39:39dom96gradha: oh man, you don't know what you're missing.
22:39:55gradhaignorance is bliss, they say
22:40:13dom96This music is really '90s though hah
22:40:33dom96http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXKaEaoWJwI
22:40:35gradhamy first CD was from Michael Jackson, when he was still black
22:40:44gradhaI still like it
22:41:00*dom96 never bought an album
22:41:09leexhmm I am playing around with sdl and try to set a pixel, there is this function: http://nimrod-code.org/graphics.html#118 but whenever I call it I get the error message that []= expects array, string or seq
22:41:58gradhadom96: maybe you should hear the bangles, they are also nice
22:42:06gradhanot polish though
22:42:24leexisn't calling surface[x,y] = color the right way to do it?
22:42:40gradhadom96: that song needs some heavy metal from 1:15
22:43:16dom96gradha: This is a Polish Disco Polo classic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2i4h7Q-8sA
22:45:42gradhadom96: ok, that's it, stop writing shitty nimrod articles, let's do a Nimrod dance song video
22:47:39*Demos quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
22:47:45fowlleex, the graphics module defines its own PSurface which is a garbage-collected wrapper for sdl's PSurface
22:49:12gradhadom96: The Nimrod love song: "You treat me like a GC"
22:51:03leexfowl: thanks, just notices that myself ;)
22:51:46gradhadom96: this was from the 2nd CD I got https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qRpIA3RKYc
22:53:24gradhadom96: meh, that link was shit, this is much more hardcore https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWP-AsG5DRk
22:55:13gradhadom96: why do you like old music?
22:58:49fowllol that looks like michael jackson in the first video
22:59:12gradhafowl: yeah, I thought it was the original music video but it's just somebody who took the image and changed the sound
22:59:37fowlgradha, that is MJ isnt it lol
23:00:14VarriountAnyone have cases where the 'is' statement doesn't work correctly?
23:00:32gradhahaven't used 'is' yet
23:00:33VarriountOr areas where it could be improved?
23:00:53gradhasounds like something you'd need with dynamic dispatch
23:01:49VarriountIt's kinda equivalent to proc(x,y): type(x)==y
23:02:04VarriountI don't know if that actually works, but you get the idea.
23:02:44dom96gradha: because nostalgia
23:03:06gradhadom96: classical music must bring you to tears then
23:03:27fowlVarriount, i dont think it works fully with user defined type class
23:03:45fowlseq[int] is collection[int]
23:06:17Varriountor 1..5 is range?
23:06:49fowlit isnt a range though
23:06:54fowlit's TSlice[int]
23:07:07VarriountOh, silly me.
23:07:07C0C0how do I use graphics.PSurface to display something? creating a new screenSurface opens a window but I don't see functionality to update it
23:08:13VarriountC0C0, graphics.blit?
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23:09:14C0C0Varriount: graphics.blit needs a second surface right?
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23:09:42VarriountUse the surface of the window you opened, I think.
23:10:00C0C0so I have to create a screen surface, and a normal surface, draw on the normal one and then blit it to the screen?
23:10:24Varriount*shrug* I've never used the graphics module.
23:10:32gradhaC0C0: usually hardware works that way, you rarely have direct memory access to the VRAM, so you work in memory and then blast it to the video card
23:10:35fowlC0C0, have you ever used SDL?
23:10:54VarriountAll I know is what's standard operating procedure for graphics.
23:11:05VarriountWith opengl you have to swap buffers.
23:11:06C0C0fowl: nope just ogl
23:11:38C0C0opengl
23:13:15fowlC0C0, sdl's swapbuffers is called "flip"
23:14:44VarriountC0C0, you might be better off using the sdl or opengl wrappers, or contributing to the graphics module.
23:15:11C0C0Varriount: was allready considering using the opngl wrapper (got working nimrod code for that^^)
23:16:20VarriountOne of the best graphic libraries I've ever used was a java library called libgdx.
23:16:30fowlyea the graphics module is lame, i'd use sdl_gfx instead of it
23:17:54C0C0well drawing to a backbufer surface and then using blit to the screen surface doesn't change anything
23:18:37fowlcare to share the code?
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23:24:14C0C0http://sprunge.us/AcfG
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23:25:18fowlC0C0, like i said you have to "flip" the screen surface to update it after you're done drawing on it: http://build.nimrod-code.org/docs/sdl.html#720
23:26:16C0C0fowl ah, ok i was still distracted by Varriount note about blit
23:26:43gradhaVarriount: what was so good about it?
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23:28:17C0C0http://sprunge.us/NPRE
23:28:24C0C0still doesn't do anything
23:28:48fowlC0C0, cast[sdl.psurface] is incorrect
23:28:57C0C0fowl: what would be correct?
23:29:16fowlhttp://build.nimrod-code.org/docs/graphics.html#103
23:29:31fowlscreen.s will get you the sdl.PSurface
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23:30:07C0C0whey thx :)
23:30:08leexfowl: thanks :)
23:30:09C0C0works
23:30:35fowllet me say again that the graphics module is lame, sdl_gfx is more useful
23:30:42familiar125yay, works on my phone:)
23:31:21C0C0fowl: well Just want to be able to set pixels & display them (raytracer)
23:31:21leexfowl: we are writing a raytracer to learn nimrod
23:31:27VarriountHm, is SDL hardware accelerated in the same way OpenGl is?
23:31:55familiar125SDL uses opengl
23:32:16C0C0familiar125: but in a different way then the usual opengl usage no?
23:32:31VarriountCould I have some evidence? I've heard statements to the contrary.
23:33:28fowleh? by default sdl1 uses software renderer
23:34:28familiar125I mean it can render with open gl
23:34:33familiar125and direct x
23:35:26gradhaVarriount: it's not exactly the same, as SDL is 2d and OpenGL is 3d, but sdl has some hardware accelerated stuff
23:35:35familiar125it's not like they compete. libglfw is more like a competitor
23:36:02fowlglfw isnt a competitor
23:36:12VarriountIsn't glfw a wrapper?
23:36:14fowlsdl provides audio, video, fonts, drawing primitives
23:36:35fowlglfw provides input events and window management, everything else you have to do in pure GL
23:37:02familiar125depends what you're trying to do
23:37:09fowlglfw competes with glut
23:37:16familiar125glfw sets itself up as an alternative to sdl
23:37:47fowlwhere did you read that? MAD magazine?
23:38:03gradhaPlayboy magazine
23:38:14VarriountO_o
23:39:03*gradha is still waiting patiently for other ideas for Nimrod Song Video ideas
23:39:08familiar125would you use both in one project?
23:39:41VarriountGradha, what are you looking for? A song to represent nimrod?
23:40:13gradhaVarriount: articles about programming languages are so old school, the new article is a youtube video
23:40:27VarriountSo...?
23:41:14gradhamaybe videos would make nimrod more popular, so we just need a nimrod song
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23:43:56gradhagood night
23:44:04*gradha quit (Quit: bbl, need to watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IzR_ClTE8Y again)
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23:45:05VarriountHi filwit
23:45:18filwithi Varriount :)
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