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| 00:09:05 | NimBot | Araq/Nimrod devel 762e343 Dominik Picheta [+0 ±2 -0]: PFuture[void] now works.... 3 more lines |
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| 00:13:28 | BitPuffin | dom96: no? :O :D |
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| 00:14:10 | dom96 | BitPuffin: https://github.com/Araq/Nimrod/blob/devel/tests/async/tasyncawait.nim |
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| 00:29:44 | EXetoC | dom96: "var x = Test()" should that even work? |
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| 00:31:56 | EXetoC | so is that async code parallelized? |
| 00:34:14 | dom96 | Don't know and no. |
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| 00:39:23 | EXetoC | I don't think it should work, but I guess we'll find out soon |
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| 01:06:55 | EXetoC | dom96: so it basically allows the user to easily choose between sync/async, right? |
| 01:07:31 | dom96 | EXetoC: no. It allows the user to write async code without callback hell. |
| 01:07:56 | dom96 | It's similar to how sync code looks, but it's not strictly the same. |
| 01:08:23 | EXetoC | that seems more important. I don't have any experience with this, but some article mentioned that |
| 01:08:47 | EXetoC | and is the intended behavior to have it compile regardless of whether or not 'await' is used at some point? |
| 01:09:36 | dom96 | You don't have to use await. But then your code will keep running so it's a bit pointless. |
| 01:10:01 | dom96 | var fut = readLine(...) |
| 01:10:12 | dom96 | echo fut.read # oh no, we don't have the value yet. |
| 01:10:17 | dom96 | # -> Error. |
| 01:10:31 | dom96 | var line = await readLine(...) |
| 01:10:33 | dom96 | echo line |
| 01:10:51 | dom96 | Second line won't be executed until readLine completes. |
| 01:11:12 | EXetoC | yeah I figured that out by editing the test |
| 01:17:58 | dom96 | good night |
| 01:18:24 | Skrylar | meep |
| 01:18:54 | EXetoC | sneaky long 'when' blocks :> |
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| 01:29:26 | BitPuffin | dom96: in brief? |
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| 01:34:55 | EXetoC | BitPuffin: async+await |
| 01:35:43 | EXetoC | in action |
| 01:35:59 | EXetoC | see tests/asyncio/tasyncawait.nim |
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| 01:36:52 | BitPuffin | EXetoC: yeah I know but what's the point of them? |
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| 01:40:32 | EXetoC | BitPuffin: "no. It allows the user to write async code without callback hell." that, apparently |
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| 03:29:14 | eximius | Okay, nimrod looks really cool... but whose idea was it to allow things like array[4..8, int]. Now it's 4-indexed?!? That's just silly. lol Powerful. But super silly. |
| 03:29:45 | eximius | How does that work anyway? converted internally to 0 when it's automagically compiled from C? |
| 03:33:16 | flaviu | eximius: most people here are asleep |
| 03:33:39 | flaviu | try asking after 8-9 hours from now |
| 03:34:07 | eximius | Oh? that puts them where.. asia mostly? |
| 03:34:29 | eximius | No... then it'd be like 11am (for china at least) |
| 03:34:38 | EXetoC | many are from Europe |
| 03:34:39 | flaviu | Europe actually |
| 03:34:55 | eximius | Yea, I was slowly moving Westward in my head lol |
| 03:35:07 | EXetoC | eximius: sounds about right. I don't know how else you can do it |
| 03:35:22 | EXetoC | and a couple from the US |
| 03:35:32 | eximius | I was thrown off cause I have a British friend who is an insomniac so he's usually awake around now anyway. |
| 03:36:36 | eximius | EXetoC: No clue. It only works with Ordinal types so it's certainly the way I'd think to do it. Otherwise they could have like 4 empty slots that are unusable which would be an incredible oversight. |
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| 03:38:54 | EXetoC | that's highly unlikely. maybe if we had let Rasmus Lerdorf implement it |
| 03:39:33 | * | eximius hears a rushing of air as that reference flies over his head. |
| 03:39:41 | eximius | Who's that? |
| 03:39:49 | eximius | OH |
| 03:39:56 | eximius | hahaha |
| 03:40:11 | flaviu | eximius: unfortunately, the best way to figure out how its implemented is to C-f array in https://github.com/Araq/Nimrod/blob/devel/compiler/ccgtypes.nim |
| 03:43:10 | eximius | of ..., tyArray, ... -> result = ctArray |
| 03:43:17 | eximius | so it's implemented as a ctArray |
| 03:47:07 | eximius | Bah. I don't want to figure this out on the tail end of an 11 hour shift. It's still just a silly, powerful feature. |
| 03:47:14 | EXetoC | it shouldn't be implemented in some weird way, but compile some minimal example in release mode and then check the C sources if you want |
| 03:47:35 | eximius | hm |
| 03:47:59 | flaviu | That might be easier. Sorry for dumping you in the middle of the compiler :P |
| 03:48:04 | EXetoC | it'll end up in the nimcache directory |
| 03:48:46 | eximius | flaviu: yea, never had much luck figuring things out that didn't start somewhere :P |
| 03:48:47 | Demos_ | I was actually super happy yesterday when I made a off by one error in a matrix multiplication function and got an error at compile time |
| 03:49:14 | Demos_ | you usually use the high and low procs for indexing anyway, so the actual indexes dont matter that much |
| 03:49:23 | EXetoC | ah, the joy of modern tools |
| 03:50:23 | eximius | Demos_: can you not use for-in on arrays? |
| 03:50:34 | EXetoC | Demos_: I don't, but I rarely write procs for generic arrays |
| 03:50:51 | Demos_ | eximius, sure you can, but sometimes you want to index through it |
| 03:51:00 | Demos_ | in particular items returns a T, not a var T. |
| 03:51:36 | Demos_ | so if you want to modify the elements you may want to consider using for i in [arr.low..arr.high] |
| 03:53:35 | eximius | hmm. thanks |
| 03:55:43 | eximius | Okay, yea, for "array[4..10, int]" and "testar[6] = 4" it compiles the assignment to "testar_80007[(6)- 4] = 4;" |
| 03:56:18 | flaviu | full gist: https://gist.github.com/flaviut/a77d85d21e8c6c61c1ee |
| 03:56:20 | eximius | So they just subtract the lowerbound... everywhere. which is a compile-time hit, but meh. |
| 03:57:06 | eximius | yay simultaneous findings! |
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| 04:04:10 | EXetoC | well, runtime, but it'll most likely be optimized out |
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| 04:07:59 | fowl | eximius, array[5,t] works |
| 04:09:11 | eximius | EXetoC: I guess I just assumed pointer arithematic was done compile time if they were both constants. |
| 04:09:18 | eximius | fowl: what? |
| 04:10:02 | fowl | array[5,t] works for array[0..5-1,t] |
| 04:10:35 | eximius | Ohh, gotcha. Lovely! |
| 04:10:53 | eximius | Interesting that they don't put that in the tutorial. |
| 04:11:30 | renesac | it is in the tutorial: |
| 04:11:30 | renesac | http://build.nimrod-lang.org/docs/tut1.html#arrays |
| 04:11:36 | EXetoC | eximius: well that's the generated C code. the C compiler should optimize out some things, and the Nimrod compiler too, but many optimizations are yet to be implemented |
| 04:12:50 | eximius | renesac: weird. I guess I'm reading an outdated or current release version here:http://nimrod-lang.org/tut1.html |
| 04:12:53 | eximius | which doesn't have it. |
| 04:13:05 | renesac | yeah... we really need this version 0.9.4 out... |
| 04:13:41 | Demos_ | people tend to use the devel branch, it has more features |
| 04:13:53 | Demos_ | and yeah, the c compiler should optimize that out |
| 04:14:02 | renesac | I guess that this notation was introduced after 0.9.2, and the main page reflects that version... |
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| 04:19:08 | eximius | EXetoC: yea, I was assuming the C compiler would do that at compile time. |
| 04:19:50 | eximius | the git version is 9.3, so that's what I'm using. |
| 04:20:27 | renesac | yeah, that will turn in 0.9.4 soon(tm) |
| 04:21:01 | eximius | anything I should be looking forward to? |
| 04:21:10 | EXetoC | you'll want to look at http://build.nimrod-lang.org/ and http://build.nimrod-lang.org/docs/manual.html (unlisted) then |
| 04:36:13 | EXetoC | eximius: if only I could remember all the things. see "user defined type classes" and "strong spaces" |
| 04:37:06 | EXetoC | and then there's the await (C#) macro which might end up in 0.9.4 |
| 04:39:31 | EXetoC | http://build.nimrod-lang.org/docs/manual.html#static-t |
| 04:40:03 | EXetoC | the new VM and closure iterators http://build.nimrod-lang.org/docs/manual.html#first-class-iterators might need some more work |
| 04:41:12 | EXetoC | and about 9000 bug fixes |
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| 05:53:59 | Araq | hi eximius welcome. you'll have a hard time to measure that additional '-' operation ;-) |
| 05:56:20 | Araq | plus C may optimize it out completely a[i-4] == (a-4*sizeof(elemType(a))[i] |
| 05:56:48 | Araq | even if not a constant expression |
| 05:59:29 | Demos_ | could get wrapped into the regular indexing arithmatic |
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| 08:58:03 | Skrylar | bluh. For some reason I've been extremely unproductive for two days |
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| 10:23:21 | Araq | hi lanior welcome |
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| 10:26:48 | lanior | hi |
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| 11:17:44 | EXetoC | Skrylar: the world depends on awesome nimrod code, so snap out of it |
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| 13:03:11 | dom96 | hello |
| 13:03:45 | EXetoC | lo |
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| 13:12:43 | lanior | Are there any compile-time type reflection capabilities? |
| 13:13:04 | lanior | Something like http://dlang.org/phobos/std_traits.html |
| 13:17:09 | Araq | yeah, there is a typetraits module and we have AST based macros |
| 13:17:20 | Araq | the type API is still missing |
| 13:17:38 | Araq | but now that I got how the design needs to look like, it's easily added |
| 13:17:55 | Araq | bbl |
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| 13:23:30 | lanior | Sounds good |
| 13:24:27 | lanior | Can I resolve string/AST expression in caller scope during macro instantiation? |
| 13:27:12 | lanior | So if we have some macro backed ORM code like TArticle.get(@slug == slug and @published_at.year == 2013) we can still check field existence and type compatibility |
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| 15:06:48 | flyx | is the gtk nimrod binding autogenerated? |
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| 15:30:23 | dom96 | flyx: part of it was autogenerated a long time ago |
| 15:33:07 | flyx | well I'm in need of an editor for nimrod to get started properly. I thought about adding GtkOSXApplication to the gtk binding so Aporia can be compiled as proper OSX application |
| 15:37:24 | lanior | flyx: try sublime text |
| 15:38:05 | flyx | lanior: already tried that, I think it's awful |
| 15:38:11 | Matthias247 | flyx: yep, try sublime with that: https://github.com/Varriount/NimLime |
| 15:38:46 | flyx | I know that sublime can import TextMate themes, but apparently it doesn't work the other way round |
| 15:38:54 | flyx | otherwise I could use TextMate or Chocolat |
| 15:42:17 | flyx | Sublime is basically unusable because it doesn't properly support my keyboard layout |
| 15:42:29 | lanior | flyx: NimLime also provides autocompletion and syntax checking |
| 15:42:46 | flyx | this is an open bug in Sublime but nobody cares |
| 15:43:21 | Matthias247 | it's the same for the german layout. But I can adjust the keyboard shortcut settings so that it works |
| 15:43:35 | flyx | see: http://www.sublimetext.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5382 |
| 15:44:05 | dom96 | flyx: I'm not sure what GtkOSXApplication is but by all means implement it. |
| 15:47:42 | flyx | dom96: it's basically for getting the window menu bar moved into the standard OSX menu bar, adds support for common OSX shortcuts and add some other things like the ability to add entries to the Dock icon's context menu. |
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| 15:49:37 | flyx | it seems like the binding is currently hardcoded to link against the x11 version of gtk, I'll see if I can get it to compile against gtk-quartz for starters |
| 15:52:54 | * | flyx wipes some dust from his gtk-osx toolchain |
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| 16:08:01 | dom96 | flyx: It's possible that Aporia doesn't even compile on Mac OS X :( |
| 16:09:48 | flyx | dom96: we'll see soon enough |
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| 16:11:51 | flyx | win32 and macosx are predefined by the compiler, right? |
| 16:17:22 | dom96 | windows and macosx are the symbolds IIRC |
| 16:17:27 | dom96 | *symbols |
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| 16:26:09 | OrionPK | do user defined type classes work on anonymous tuples |
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| 17:57:37 | foodoo | Where does Aporia save its .pid file? Aporia claims that there is another instance running even though there isn't. |
| 17:59:00 | Araq | foodoo: I think it's done via requesting a port number |
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| 17:59:33 | Araq | you may need to wait a bit until the OS released this port number again |
| 17:59:48 | dom96 | foodoo: Yeah, that's likely a bug. What Araq said. |
| 18:10:16 | foodoo | Do you happen to know which port Aporia uses? |
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| 18:11:43 | Matthias247 | In that case use should set SO_REUSEADDR |
| 18:11:56 | Matthias247 | for the socket |
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| 18:14:09 | foodoo | well, I'll reboot then |
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| 18:16:58 | Matthias247 | foodoo: if the problem is that the socket hangs in TIME_WAIT then it will work after 1-3minutes again |
| 18:18:30 | foodoo | Didn't work for me. But I'm also opening TCP sockets in my nimrod program so maybe this causes some problems? |
| 18:23:30 | Araq | possible |
| 18:23:33 | Araq | which OS btw? |
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| 18:25:20 | foodoo | Linux 64bit |
| 18:25:31 | foodoo | let's see if the problem is reproducible... |
| 18:26:09 | foodoo | (will now wait 5 minutes) |
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| 18:33:27 | Araq | hi cjvgbh welcome |
| 18:33:53 | cjvgbh | Hello there |
| 18:34:33 | foodoo | http://pastebin.com/dUd2AcAD When I execute this code (with a Jabber server running on 5222) the last line never finishes. If I then close aporia normally, I cannot restart it |
| 18:34:47 | foodoo | And I get the message "An instance of aporia is already running." |
| 18:35:36 | foodoo | The logfile of the jabber server doesn't say that the connection has been closed (it normally does). So I guess the connection to the Jabber server remains open even though Aporia was closed |
| 18:37:08 | dom96 | foodoo: You can change the port in the config file. |
| 18:37:22 | dom96 | Should be in ~/.config/aporia/ IIRC |
| 18:37:27 | dom96 | brb |
| 18:37:36 | cjvgbh | btw does nimrod support udp sockets? Is something i have to checkout for each OS ? |
| 18:38:19 | Araq | cjvgbh: I know we support udp sockets but I don't know how to get them :P |
| 18:38:23 | foodoo | cjvgbh: I seems so: IPPROTO_UDP from http://nimrod-lang.org/sockets.html#143 |
| 18:39:26 | cjvgbh | Thanks. Data is a String? |
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| 18:40:44 | foodoo | cjvgbh: Which proc are you refering to? |
| 18:41:02 | cjvgbh | The high level |
| 18:41:31 | cjvgbh | proc recv(socket: TSocket; data: var string; size: int; timeout = - 1): int |
| 18:41:50 | foodoo | cjvgbh: data: var string |
| 18:42:07 | foodoo | types are defined after the colon (:) |
| 18:44:01 | cjvgbh | Yes, but it seems weird to me. I'm not an expert but in java you receive a packet with a byte array http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/net/DatagramPacket.html |
| 18:47:07 | foodoo | Java is probably more abstract (and therefore different) than C or Nimrod. |
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| 18:49:06 | cjvgbh | How is receiving a byte array more abstract than a string? The low level declaras data as a pointer, but is the first time i see this type. |
| 18:49:16 | cjvgbh | pointer to what? |
| 18:49:40 | cjvgbh | Wheren can i learn more about this? should i check the source code? |
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| 18:52:18 | Demos | the pointer type is a pointer to /anything/ like C's void* |
| 18:52:52 | Demos | could point all the way to kansas :D |
| 18:55:37 | cjvgbh | That is good, but to what is the pointer pointing? |
| 18:56:01 | Araq | cjvgbh: 'pointer' is simply C's void* |
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| 19:00:04 | cjvgbh | Sorry i'm not used to C. |
| 19:01:35 | cjvgbh | I thought it would put the data into an array. I have to check directly the inside of the pointer? Where can i learn more about pointers in nimrod? |
| 19:01:51 | Araq | cjvgbh: well it's unspecified to what the pointer points to as 'recv' doesn't need to know, it treats it as a pointer to a byte array though |
| 19:02:22 | Demos | cjvgbh, in C pointers and arrays are the same |
| 19:02:26 | Araq | but if you don't know about 'pointer' you shouldn't use this version of 'recv' ;-) |
| 19:02:46 | Demos | the arr[i] syntax is short for *(arr + sizeof(*arr) * i) |
| 19:03:06 | dom96 | cjvgbh: You can think of string as a ByteArray. |
| 19:03:09 | cjvgbh | Aah ok i get it, thanks |
| 19:03:38 | cjvgbh | So, for example if i want to retreive the second byte received, i'd write data[1] ? |
| 19:03:54 | cjvgbh | with the high level version i mean |
| 19:03:55 | dom96 | yes |
| 19:04:31 | cjvgbh | Interesting. Why it uses a string and not array[int8]? Or whatever. |
| 19:05:15 | dom96 | It's more intuitive for text-based protocols. |
| 19:07:28 | cjvgbh | Fair enough |
| 19:09:38 | Demos | also for the low level interface that is probably how C does it |
| 19:09:46 | Demos | since C does not actually have an int8 type |
| 19:09:49 | Demos | well C89 does not |
| 19:11:08 | cjvgbh | Thanks, now everything is clear to me. With java i had some clases to manage different udp connections, but you dont have to deal with pointers directly. Also, where can i learn more about threads? |
| 19:11:14 | cjvgbh | Does nimrod features actors? |
| 19:12:06 | dom96 | http://build.nimrod-lang.org/docs/threads.html |
| 19:12:15 | dom96 | http://build.nimrod-lang.org/docs/actors.html |
| 19:12:16 | Demos | cjvgbh, there is an actors module, not sure if it is up to date |
| 19:12:57 | Demos | well nimrod can let you avoid the use op pointers but sometimes they are just the simplest way to go |
| 19:13:57 | dom96 | the low-level version is only useful for optimisation purposes. |
| 19:14:14 | dom96 | even though the overhead of the high-level version is probably extremely low anyway |
| 19:14:50 | dom96 | Soon all the high-level stuff will be moved to a 'net' module. |
| 19:16:12 | cjvgbh | i'll keep that in mind, thanks. |
| 19:16:46 | cjvgbh | why it is neccessary to use the flag --threads:on with threas? |
| 19:21:25 | Araq | don't use the actors module, it sucks |
| 19:21:54 | Araq | we'll get much better threading support in 0.9.6 |
| 19:22:24 | Araq | --threads:on seems a good idea as threads introduce some overhead |
| 19:24:56 | cjvgbh | Nice. I saw you posted about using pattern matching via macros. It is planned to introduce them as a core feature? |
| 19:25:20 | Araq | stdlib and then later we might move it into the core |
| 19:25:27 | Araq | but it's of low priority |
| 19:29:42 | cjvgbh | Oh, another question, now that i have the chance. forward declaration is ugly,i hope there are plans to introduce a work around. |
| 19:30:06 | cjvgbh | I know that is how c++ works (and i suppose c), but nevertheless, ugly. |
| 19:30:47 | Araq | I know how to solve that by now |
| 19:30:58 | Araq | I don't know whether you will like it though |
| 19:31:01 | Araq | ;-) |
| 19:31:13 | cjvgbh | :/ |
| 19:31:18 | renesac | "template `<<`(x, y: distinct Tinteger): expr = x shl y" <-- is this a good hack around the operator precedence rules? |
| 19:33:14 | Araq | renesac: template `<<`(a, b: expr): expr = a shl y # good enough, right? |
| 19:33:26 | Araq | also #!strongSpaces has been implemented |
| 19:33:45 | renesac | I heard streams module is defining a `<<` operator |
| 19:33:50 | renesac | oh |
| 19:34:04 | Araq | streams will get &= not << |
| 19:34:13 | renesac | humm, cool |
| 19:34:36 | Demos | yeah, just because C++ uses << does not mean we need to |
| 19:34:54 | renesac | I never liked those << from C++ too |
| 19:35:20 | renesac | &= makes more sense |
| 19:36:20 | renesac | (thought I'm defining that too, but it can probably be through a simple proc with safe overload resolution) |
| 19:47:57 | cjvgbh | "Now please ask the Scala guys whether their form of pattern matching supports exhaustiveness checking" what do you mean by *exhaustiveness checking" ? |
| 19:48:38 | Araq | case myenum |
| 19:48:50 | Araq | of valueA: baz |
| 19:48:58 | Araq | # error: not all cases are covered |
| 19:49:53 | cjvgbh | With scala you use the underscore |
| 19:50:10 | Araq | I might add that Ada has that feature since 1980 or something |
| 19:50:54 | Araq | the underscore is NOT the same at all |
| 19:51:44 | Araq | btw just checked the scala spec, it doesn't perform exhaustiveness checking afaict |
| 20:00:34 | cjvgbh | b-but they have pattern matching |
| 20:07:04 | renesac | "If the operator ends with = and its relevant character is none of <, >, !, =, ~, ?, it is an assignment operator which has the lowest precedence." <-- so `<<=` will not be interpreted as an assignment operator? |
| 20:07:38 | renesac | or I can use templates to hack around it too? |
| 20:10:08 | Araq | no |
| 20:10:17 | Araq | didn't think about this |
| 20:10:32 | Araq | but surely <= is not an assignment operator, right? |
| 20:11:01 | renesac | yeah |
| 20:11:40 | Araq | maybe shift should be *< and *> instead |
| 20:11:59 | renesac | "template `<<=`*(x, y: expr): expr = x = x shl y" <-- this don't work? |
| 20:12:08 | Araq | it is multiplication like, after all |
| 20:12:11 | renesac | hum |
| 20:12:17 | Araq | it does work but precedence is weird |
| 20:13:22 | renesac | templates can't add parenthesis right...? |
| 20:13:32 | renesac | like you would do with a C macro... |
| 20:14:26 | Araq | you can but it's unnecessary |
| 20:15:00 | renesac | I mean: "template `<<=`*(x, y: expr): expr = x = x shl (y)" |
| 20:15:08 | renesac | to have y parsed before |
| 20:15:50 | Araq | yup, doesn't work |
| 20:16:45 | renesac | well, *> sure is a solid solution, but is kinda ugly, different from everything and harder to type |
| 20:16:51 | renesac | ^^" |
| 20:17:13 | Araq | << means "much smaller than" anyway |
| 20:17:41 | Araq | I am so tired of this "C's syntax is natural" attitude when it certainly wasn't natural when they came up with it |
| 20:17:49 | renesac | yeah, I guess it could be understood that way, if it was not C, Java, etc using it for bitshift |
| 20:18:14 | renesac | well, it isn't really natural, but it is the standard for that type of thing |
| 20:18:20 | renesac | and has it's advantages |
| 20:19:37 | Araq | when I learned C I saw multiplications everywhere |
| 20:20:31 | Araq | later I made * the export marker (copied it from oberon) and people say "argh, looks like pointers" |
| 20:20:42 | Araq | ahh the irony |
| 20:20:50 | Matthias247 | :) |
| 20:20:55 | renesac | lol |
| 20:21:23 | renesac | and I'm opposed to changing the export marker symbol |
| 20:21:26 | renesac | btw |
| 20:21:42 | renesac | my only problem with it is forgetting it often... |
| 20:22:28 | cjvgbh | i'd prefer + over * |
| 20:23:17 | renesac | yeah, '+' is also fine, but not really different |
| 20:23:47 | cjvgbh | At least it not resembles a C pointer *trollface* |
| 20:24:36 | cjvgbh | Seems more 'natural' |
| 20:27:21 | cjvgbh | Btw, in java exists the "package-protected" mod, can you achieve something closer to it on nimrod? |
| 20:27:55 | Matthias247 | I also wanted that ;) |
| 20:27:59 | renesac | use include? |
| 20:28:43 | renesac | it's not the same thing, but maybe works for most cases |
| 20:29:05 | cjvgbh | I see, but if everyone can include your code, you loose that protection in some way. |
| 20:29:53 | renesac | well, they could manually copy-paste anyway |
| 20:30:07 | renesac | it is the same |
| 20:30:20 | EXetoC | cjvgbh: it does resemble the symbol for addition though |
| 20:30:28 | EXetoC | you can't make everyone happy can you :/ |
| 20:30:48 | Demos | cjvgbh, just don't document the packages you dont want people importing, no reason to be super paranoid |
| 20:31:07 | cjvgbh | You are right, but * resembles multiplication sign and pointer too. + Is used, for example on irc to imply the user has "voice" |
| 20:31:34 | cjvgbh | You are right, Demos and renesac. |
| 20:31:38 | EXetoC | let's use the unicode poop symbol or something |
| 20:31:47 | cjvgbh | lol |
| 20:34:05 | foodoo | I bet Unicode has a crown symbol |
| 20:34:24 | foodoo | That would be a nice prefix for public stuff |
| 20:34:49 | renesac | and the poop symbol for package-protected stuff? |
| 20:35:12 | foodoo | "poop" as in "smelly, better not touch if you are not responsible"? |
| 20:35:19 | cjvgbh | We can use the symbol U+07F7 ... but it resembles something else ... |
| 20:35:24 | renesac | yeah, sounds good |
| 20:36:54 | renesac | http://www.charbase.com/1f451-unicode-crown |
| 20:37:25 | renesac | now we only need to find a fixed-width font that has this symbol! |
| 20:39:23 | foodoo | The *prefix should still be available as a fallback |
| 20:40:46 | cjvgbh | that would cause much controversy, in other words, free advertising |
| 20:40:57 | renesac | nah, it is ugly compared to that crown |
| 20:41:21 | cjvgbh | "first language to use crown as a access mod, all hail to nimrod" |
| 20:41:52 | cjvgbh | elegance to the extreme |
| 20:42:07 | Matthias247 | lol, would somehow be cool |
| 20:43:12 | cjvgbh | I can see how, even having the * as alternative, everyone would use the crown |
| 20:46:35 | Matthias247 | everyone who can type it :) |
| 20:47:16 | cjvgbh | Well i must go. Thanks everybody for your help. I hope nimrod gets more recognition, it deserves it (even if it doesn't have pattern matching). See you around. |
| 20:47:19 | * | cjvgbh quit (Quit: Page closed) |
| 20:48:19 | renesac | april first is close |
| 20:52:25 | * | Demos quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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| 21:01:25 | * | foodoo quit (Quit: something is leaking memory...) |
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| 21:02:25 | * | RedDevil is now known as Guest31831 |
| 21:04:25 | Guest31831 | Hi guys. I need some help as I explore Nimrod again. I need to have a 6000x6000 byte attar and pass a reference to it to a procedure (read only). How would I go about doing that? |
| 21:04:42 | Guest31831 | Array that iis. |
| 21:06:00 | * | Mat3 joined #nimrod |
| 21:06:04 | Mat3 | hi all |
| 21:06:11 | Araq | just pass the array to a proc, nimrod doesn't copy it for parameter passing |
| 21:08:51 | Guest31831 | Thanks - I will check that out. I new there had to be a simple answer. |
| 21:15:49 | * | Mat3 quit (Quit: Verlassend) |
| 21:17:08 | * | Mat3 joined #nimrod |
| 21:21:18 | * | ScriptDevil joined #nimrod |
| 21:23:39 | ScriptDevil | Hi, what does the word Nimrod mean? Also, what is the official Twitter hashtag for it? |
| 21:23:54 | dom96 | #nimrodlang |
| 21:24:07 | dom96 | Nimrod means "incredibly intelligent person" |
| 21:24:10 | dom96 | :P |
| 21:24:17 | dom96 | Also, welcome to #nimrod :) |
| 21:24:34 | ScriptDevil | The does the :p invalidate the meaning described in the previous sentence? :P |
| 21:24:38 | ScriptDevil | dom96: Thanks! |
| 21:24:51 | Mat3 | hello ScriptDevil |
| 21:24:59 | ScriptDevil | Mat3: Hi! |
| 21:25:18 | ScriptDevil | I did not expect the git repo to be over 200MB in size "Receiving objects: 61% (20754/33922), 199.32 MiB | 470 KiB/s" |
| 21:25:19 | Araq | ScriptDevil: Nimrod was the first king who also built the tower of Babel. |
| 21:25:28 | dom96 | ScriptDevil: Well yeah, i'm kidding heh. |
| 21:25:40 | Araq | the repo is big because of generated C source code cruft |
| 21:25:42 | ScriptDevil | Araq: Aah. Ok. Babel - languages - metaprogramming, get it. |
| 21:25:55 | Araq | yup |
| 21:26:51 | ScriptDevil | There seems to be an unrelated #nimrod that is popular in Twitter today. I tweeted with #nimrod, saw the hashtag drowned in some totally off-topic pool of #tags |
| 21:27:30 | Araq | turns out "nimrod" is also an english word ... |
| 21:27:45 | dom96 | ScriptDevil: You can also just mention the twitter @nimrodlang. |
| 21:27:57 | dom96 | *twitter account |
| 21:28:13 | ScriptDevil | Will follow. |
| 21:29:31 | dom96 | 44 followers yay |
| 21:29:49 | ScriptDevil | :D *party* |
| 21:30:17 | dom96 | And it looks like 100% are real people! |
| 21:31:09 | ScriptDevil | Araq: I am new here, but without sounding too impertinent, why is generated C-code a part of the repo rather than being generated during build? For bootstraping the compiler? |
| 21:31:29 | Araq | yes and it's an artifact really |
| 21:31:47 | Araq | to get rid of it we'll break every single fork though |
| 21:31:56 | Araq | :-/ |
| 21:32:32 | dom96 | The C sources are required to bootstrap the compiler and they used to present in the main repo. Then they were zipped which made the repo huge. |
| 21:32:43 | dom96 | But yeah, getting rid of that will break all forks. |
| 21:32:59 | dom96 | And could unleash all sorts of other bad things. |
| 21:35:04 | ScriptDevil | But 317MB ... :-/ I guess if things have moved on from that, one could start a clean repo. In countries like India, bandwidth and download limits are an issue in several parts (I fortunately have a good connection). |
| 21:35:28 | ScriptDevil | Anyway, let me contribute something tangible before throwing in bike-shed suggestions. |
| 21:35:39 | Guest31831 | OK now I have a problem setting the array up for test. Can I pass the array without having the data loaded? See code snipet: |
| 21:36:39 | Guest31831 | Actually how do i show a code snipet? |
| 21:36:41 | dom96 | ScriptDevil: You can always clone with --depth 1 |
| 21:37:34 | renesac | Guest31831, do a gist: https://gist.github.com/ |
| 21:37:53 | renesac | or your preferred code pasting site |
| 21:43:41 | renesac | Araq, `*<=` don't work |
| 21:43:43 | renesac | https://gist.github.com/ReneSac/ee531fb96d6d43b0d1dd |
| 21:45:52 | renesac | I should probably fill a bug |
| 21:46:21 | renesac | it is treated the same as `<<=` |
| 21:48:10 | Araq | renesac: you mixed up shr and shl for *>= |
| 21:48:31 | Guest31831 | Here is the code sniprt: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/9574381 |
| 21:48:54 | renesac | ohh |
| 21:48:58 | renesac | sorry |
| 21:52:42 | Araq | Guest31831: sorry bad connection here, somebody else needs to help you |
| 21:52:52 | Mat3 | hmm, compiling Nimrod indeed is somewhat arcane in my opinion. However the situation is not comparable to langauges like Julia which depend on much more external libraries (and sublibraries which depend on ... some more external libraries) |
| 21:53:16 | renesac | why arcane? |
| 21:53:30 | Araq | Mat3: things get better once we got 0.9.4 out |
| 21:53:54 | Mat3 | renesac: wrong translation, sorry |
| 21:57:37 | Mat3 | with »arcane« I mean that compiling Nimrod from the Git repro actualle seem depending on a priour installed, recent Nimrod compiler |
| 21:57:45 | Mat3 | ^actually |
| 21:58:05 | Araq | gcc depends on gcc too, you know |
| 22:00:24 | Mat3 | yes, it's only the Nimrod version build from csources lacks some language features so I still need editing system.nim for compiling koch |
| 22:02:07 | Araq | it's always been this way |
| 22:02:17 | Araq | 0.9.0 can't compile 0.9.2 |
| 22:02:30 | Araq | 0.8.10 can't compile 0.9.0 etc. |
| 22:02:44 | Araq | the language evolves too fast |
| 22:02:54 | Mat3 | I agree |
| 22:03:03 | Araq | http://blog.theincredibleholk.org/blog/2012/11/29/a-look-at-gpu-memory-transfer/ |
| 22:03:13 | Araq | might be interesting to you, Mat3 |
| 22:03:50 | Guest31831 | Thanks Araq. I will try another tact. I seem to be having touuble instantiating the large array. The examples just have literals. I need 6000x6000. |
| 22:04:30 | Araq | so declare the array as a global variable |
| 22:04:47 | Araq | don't put it on the stack |
| 22:04:49 | * | Endy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 22:05:07 | Araq | or allocate a seq with newSeq(s, 6000*6000) |
| 22:05:43 | EXetoC | that sure is big |
| 22:06:14 | Guest31831 | How would I do the global variable option? |
| 22:07:03 | runvnc | hello |
| 22:07:05 | Mat3 | Araq: Thanks |
| 22:07:41 | runvnc | In my httpserver the port doesn't get unbound when I kill the process. so I think I want to trap the signal and then do close() right |
| 22:09:08 | Matthias247 | ?!? The OS will free all resources (incl. sockets) on application close |
| 22:09:44 | Araq | runvnc: system.addQuitProc or something like that |
| 22:09:56 | runvnc | k thanks I will look that up araq |
| 22:10:10 | Araq | Matthias247: true but ports take a while until the OS cleans them |
| 22:10:51 | dom96 | I don't think that will help. |
| 22:11:01 | Matthias247 | that's true on unix. But you can set SO_REUSEADDR on server sockets to avoid the problem |
| 22:11:02 | dom96 | You need to set SOREUSEADDR on the socket. |
| 22:11:37 | Matthias247 | but I also learned that the hard way ;) |
| 22:11:38 | runvnc | ok I was thinking of using SOREUSEADDR |
| 22:12:06 | runvnc | thought maybe people would tell me to unbind the socket but same diff as long I dont need to wait around for the socket |
| 22:12:20 | runvnc | I will do soreuseaddr |
| 22:12:35 | * | flaviu joined #nimrod |
| 22:12:36 | Araq | sore-user, yes |
| 22:12:39 | Matthias247 | is it a a unix domain socket or an ip socket? |
| 22:13:02 | runvnc | tcp |
| 22:13:09 | Mat3 | get some sleep, ciao |
| 22:13:17 | Araq | Mat3: good night |
| 22:13:19 | ScriptDevil | Good night! |
| 22:13:19 | * | Mat3 quit (Quit: Verlassend) |
| 22:13:24 | Guest31831 | Disregard last - got it. Sorry to anoy. |
| 22:13:30 | Matthias247 | runvnc: ok, then SO_REUSEADDR is the way to go |
| 22:14:06 | runvnc | k is it wrong to just call close on the PAsyncHttpServer in my quit proc though |
| 22:14:07 | runvnc | heh |
| 22:14:36 | Araq | because it doesn't support closures? |
| 22:15:40 | Araq | aww Aporia doesn't support the unicode crown symbol |
| 22:16:01 | Araq | maybe my font only supports Klingon |
| 22:16:37 | flaviu | Araq: Scala does support exhaustiveness checking, but only when the class that everything inherits from is marked sealed |
| 22:17:04 | Araq | flaviu: interesting, thanks |
| 22:17:44 | flaviu | In scala(and in general the jvm), you can mix and match compilation, making it impossible for global extensiveness when a new subtype can be declared in a different compilation |
| 22:17:45 | Araq | the spec doesn't mention it though. or perhaps I missed it. |
| 22:18:50 | Araq | flaviu: yeah you can reason about Java code as good as you can about Python code. |
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| 22:19:46 | runvnc | quitproc is pretty great |
| 22:39:01 | runvnc | reuseAddr is in the code I downloaded the other day but not the docs |
| 22:39:29 | runvnc | the docs are generated automatically though right so |
| 22:40:12 | runvnc | I assume that automatically will happen when it gets released or something |
| 22:42:58 | dom96 | it's in there: http://build.nimrod-lang.org/docs/sockets.html#109 |
| 22:45:41 | runvnc | oh ok. I was looking on this page at asyncHTTPServer http://nimrod-lang.org/httpserver.html |
| 22:46:02 | * | psquid joined #nimrod |
| 22:46:16 | runvnc | anyway the docs match whats in the file exactly so its generated. at first I thought I needed to update something manually but of course that is automatic |
| 22:46:42 | runvnc | I mean, the docs don't match the file I downloaded from github, but they were obviously generated from the previous version |
| 22:46:42 | runvnc | nvm |
| 22:47:03 | Araq | the docs have a version number for this reason iirc |
| 22:47:41 | runvnc | yeah it does say in the lower left hand corner generated 05-20-2013 I see that now |
| 22:48:07 | ScriptDevil | Is there a nimrod wishlist somewhere? |
| 22:48:13 | Araq | http://nimrod-lang.org/lib.html |
| 22:48:23 | Araq | Version: 0.9.2 |
| 22:49:14 | Araq | ScriptDevil: I think we've pretty much enumerated every language feature in existance and included it in nimrod or planned to do so |
| 22:49:43 | Araq | but just ask |
| 22:51:02 | renesac | https://github.com/Araq/Nimrod/wiki/Feature-suggestions <-- this page exist in the wiki |
| 22:51:58 | flaviu | I really hate the ?: syntax, its really great nimrod has if expressions instead |
| 22:52:10 | ScriptDevil | Araq: Not language features per-se. I can immediately see a few weekend projects. 1. CSS for the nimrod-forums 2. Language support for one or more of those Javascript syntax highlighters for blogs etc. |
| 22:53:15 | ScriptDevil | Araq: Also, library requests, but then... |
| 22:53:31 | ScriptDevil | renesac: That was pretty much what I was looking for |
| 22:53:43 | flaviu | A code scroll on the home page might help with adoption |
| 22:54:17 | ScriptDevil | flaviu: Isn't there already a "nimrod looks like this"? |
| 22:54:37 | flaviu | A general idea of syntax is nice, but what people really like to see is all the fancy things you can do |
| 22:57:04 | ScriptDevil | flaviu: There is a cookbook suggestion on that wiki/Feature-suggestions. That might actually be what is needed. |
| 22:57:45 | ScriptDevil | However, Araq's talk on Infoq was the selling point for me. |
| 22:58:16 | Araq | ScriptDevil: interesting. did you understand it? |
| 22:58:35 | Araq | cause I heard I was way too fast and well |
| 22:59:34 | Araq | the stuff was quite advanced |
| 23:01:04 | * | darkf joined #nimrod |
| 23:01:19 | Araq | flaviu: make it happen, PRs are welcome |
| 23:01:40 | Araq | the website is generated with nimrod's docgen |
| 23:01:48 | Araq | but you know that already |
| 23:02:03 | ScriptDevil | Araq: I loved it. I understand hygienic macros from Scheme. The HTML code gen part was neat. |
| 23:02:21 | ScriptDevil | Yes, I missed a little towards the end because I was multi-tasking. But it was a pretty good pitch. |
| 23:02:22 | flaviu | Sure, I'll start on it as soon as I get my documentation code execution working |
| 23:03:16 | ScriptDevil | I thought nimrod looked very suitable for writing DSLs etc. |
| 23:03:34 | EXetoC | indeedio |
| 23:04:07 | Araq | ah lol for me my talk == "Araq shows off partial evaluation" |
| 23:05:50 | Araq | zahary takes the credit for the htmlgen example :-) |
| 23:06:51 | ScriptDevil | Araq: A talk that tried to dumb down a language to "hey, I have a cool python variant that compiles" would have been boring to me. I have spent the last 2 years trying to master Haskell on and off. Never doing so. The technical nature of the talk was what interested me the most. |
| 23:07:24 | ScriptDevil | Araq: Just try avoid getting hit by a bus. That is the only cause for concern now :P |
| 23:08:23 | Araq | the bus factor is 2 fyi |
| 23:08:43 | Araq | zahary knows the core as well including the GC and all the hard parts in the compiler |
| 23:09:21 | ScriptDevil | Araq: And the concern has been alleviated :D |
| 23:10:41 | Araq | there are of course others who know the internals quite a bit |
| 23:11:45 | ScriptDevil | I was kidding about the bus-factor part. |
| 23:12:03 | Araq | you might but we had people here who didn't |
| 23:12:15 | ScriptDevil | That Dr.Dobbs article had a comment about it. |
| 23:12:30 | ScriptDevil | True. But people don't realize that ALL projects had a bus-factor of 1. |
| 23:13:01 | ScriptDevil | Before people become less cynical and look at the technical merit. |
| 23:13:56 | ScriptDevil | Probably, add it as a fun-line in the /info. "We have a bus-factor that is strictly greater than 1" |
| 23:14:11 | ScriptDevil | Sorry. /topic |
| 23:16:00 | Matthias247 | I experienced quite a lot of these "bus1" situations |
| 23:16:09 | Matthias247 | There was actually never a bus, but the people quit |
| 23:16:10 | runvnc | I made a pr to look up the mime type and set content-type in httpserver |
| 23:16:36 | runvnc | in case anyone doesnt have enough pr or issues on their mind or something |
| 23:16:40 | Araq | there are quite some PRs I need to review |
| 23:16:59 | * | CARAM joined #nimrod |
| 23:16:59 | Araq | will do these when I'm less productive |
| 23:17:20 | runvnc | heh |
| 23:17:37 | Matthias247 | In most cases there were official second people for the things, but actually they had no clue of how the internals worked ;) |
| 23:18:22 | dom96 | Araq won't quit because I won't let him. |
| 23:18:29 | dom96 | I'll fly to Germany if I have to. |
| 23:18:32 | dom96 | :P |
| 23:18:37 | ScriptDevil | Matthias247: Have seen a few of those too. But this language seems to be gathering steam now, Dr.Dobbs, HN, InfoQ. Would pique the attention of a few. |
| 23:18:48 | Araq | you should do that anyway |
| 23:19:01 | dom96 | true... |
| 23:19:14 | flaviu | ScriptDevel: The response on reddit was mediocre though :( |
| 23:19:38 | Matthias247 | yes, reddit was bad. But the response on HN was quite good |
| 23:19:51 | ScriptDevil | flaviu: I find reddit better for non-tech things like DOTA2 and wtf |
| 23:19:53 | dom96 | When we reach 100 concurrent users on IRC i'll be happy. |
| 23:20:32 | ScriptDevil | But, the tech channels are more like the tech-channels in 4chan. They come up with epic shit like sleepsort. But then, they are mostly ranters. |
| 23:20:56 | ScriptDevil | btw, I will make a post on lobste.rs if there isn't one yet. |
| 23:21:24 | dom96 | Yeah, you should. Lobste.rs looks interesting. |
| 23:21:42 | renesac | there seems to be two posts about nimrod there |
| 23:22:09 | renesac | https://lobste.rs/s/j1yj2n/consider_the_nimrod_programming_language/comments/nnw6ej |
| 23:22:12 | renesac | <-- latest one |
| 23:22:13 | Matthias247 | some reddit links are really interesting. But others like the "I managed to get Helllo world working in C and it was that hard" blog posts are nothing but spam |
| 23:22:31 | Araq | flaviu: I think we did well on reddit. |
| 23:22:55 | Araq | but my definition of "well" comes from experience |
| 23:23:39 | Matthias247 | I really enjoyed that one yesterday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzyoT4DziQ4&feature=share |
| 23:23:47 | runvnc | If I get 5 upvotes on reddit I consider it a success. I have low standards for reddit though |
| 23:23:47 | Matthias247 | Didn't knew he was also an entertainer ;) |
| 23:24:33 | flaviu | runvnc: Have you tried googling "cute kitten" and posting it on r/aww? |
| 23:24:57 | runvnc | flaviu: lol |
| 23:26:08 | runvnc | yeah I guess I usually try to go for unknown/controversial/not yet popular ideas on big subreddits |
| 23:27:27 | runvnc | which is not generally wildly successful but oh well |
| 23:27:43 | dom96 | I wonder if Wikipedia will allow a Nimrod article now. |
| 23:28:01 | renesac | dom96: I would say: wait for 0.9.4 |
| 23:28:16 | renesac | as this would be the third attempt... |
| 23:28:38 | * | lanior joined #nimrod |
| 23:28:57 | runvnc | I got very irritated the other night with wikipedia and wrote a paragraph on a talk page to one of the editors who rejected the wikipedia article |
| 23:28:58 | renesac | hopefully some biggish news take this nimrod release... |
| 23:29:16 | renesac | *news site |
| 23:29:40 | dom96 | I think we should submit to slashdot upon the 0.9.4 release. |
| 23:29:49 | runvnc | saying all the reasons he should fix his mistake and put up the one on dom96's draft page |
| 23:29:55 | runvnc | I assume he ignored it but I havent looked |
| 23:30:41 | ScriptDevil | https://lobste.rs/s/oochao/nimrod_a_new_approach_to_metaprogramming < If you want to add osmething and are on lobste.rs |
| 23:31:01 | dom96 | runvnc: oh cool. I don't think it will do much good though, many people argued on HN with wikipedia editors about it and nothing good came of it. |
| 23:31:30 | runvnc | well that guy wrote me back and said he wasn't an admin anymore oh well |
| 23:34:30 | runvnc | he referred me to administrator's noticeboard and that refers me to deletion review https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review |
| 23:34:54 | runvnc | I am not going to post anything on there because I think that may be a strategic consideration and I don't want to interfere but that might be an option to pursue |
| 23:35:35 | Skrylar | ... |
| 23:35:38 | Skrylar | Okay, Wikipedia is a joke. |
| 23:36:11 | Skrylar | It may be weirdly popular and held in high regard, but the peer review / editor process over there is a Cool Kids Club |
| 23:36:34 | Skrylar | Come back with a million dollar sponsorship and they'll give you an article the next day :P |
| 23:37:40 | runvnc | LOL seems like it.. I got an impression that something was up when I tried to correct the WebGL article which had a bunch of made up security concern stories written by an editor who worked for Microsoft |
| 23:38:11 | runvnc | but wikipedia is important anyway |
| 23:39:20 | runvnc | eventually someone fixed that webgl article |
| 23:39:23 | Skrylar | Yeah there was a lot of anger in some of the conspiracy theory sites about the editor process; it basically went, "We don't expect you to tell it like we think it is, but we expect you to put our citations up in a neutral fashion" to which editors responded, "Lol no, we do whatever we want" :/ |
| 23:39:43 | Skrylar | Its basically "how many editors can you rally to the talk page vs. how many editors can they rally" in any given topic |
| 23:40:17 | ScriptDevil | Skrylar: I have a friend who works at Wikimedia. Let me ask him what the criterion is. |
| 23:40:36 | Skrylar | runvnc: as you probably have a new account and haven't sworn the oath of the 80,000 word wikipedia law, you are obviously a shill and we should trust the microsoft guy more. :) |
| 23:40:37 | ScriptDevil | AFAIK, it had some issues with Paid editing |
| 23:40:49 | ScriptDevil | But they did spend a lot of time removing those edits. |
| 23:41:01 | ScriptDevil | And banning the authors if IIRC |
| 23:41:37 | Skrylar | I'm not impressed with their detective work at wikimedia though. |
| 23:41:56 | Skrylar | i read over the logs of one of those arguments and someone accused the editor of being a sockpuppet, and they expected him to "prove he wasn't" which is great legal sense |
| 23:42:09 | runvnc | There was no actual thing on Wikipedia saying he worked for Microsoft. Its just he was putting in a bunch of FUD that the "security firm" hired by Microsoft wrote, and his IP was located right next to MS headquarters. |
| 23:42:10 | Skrylar | Instead of having the accusor prove he was |
| 23:42:27 | runvnc | I looked up his IP address with a geo thing, which isn't precise, but it sure looked like the same spot |
| 23:42:29 | Skrylar | I wouldn't be surprised if the paid editing policy didn't receive similar enforcement |
| 23:47:16 | Skrylar | now to your regularly scheduled meep |
| 23:49:14 | ScriptDevil | Ok, even urbandictionary isn't helping me here. Way OT. What is meep? |
| 23:49:52 | Skrylar | meep is a noise |
| 23:50:39 | Skrylar | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiNoAFMmnwE |
| 23:51:11 | Skrylar | I'm surprised its not in urbandictionary; roadrunner used to be somewhat famous |
| 23:51:56 | ScriptDevil | Skrylar: It says "meep means anything you want it to mean" |
| 23:52:00 | ScriptDevil | That wasn't too useful. |
| 23:53:36 | * | renesac left #nimrod ("Leaving") |
| 23:53:48 | * | renesac joined #nimrod |
| 23:57:19 | Skrylar | I usually say 'meep' instead of anything when i pop in IRC, though they're also usually talking about compiler internals |
| 23:57:24 | Skrylar | today i said words instead |
| 23:57:25 | Skrylar | :P |
| 23:59:00 | * | ics quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |