<< 15-09-2016 >>
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05:49:10jam__hey anyone know if you can return images with jester
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06:37:51FromGitter<vegansk> jam__, ``var jpegData = readFile("test.jpg"); resp(jpegData, "image/jpeg")``?
06:39:33FromGitter<vegansk> @Araq, please look at this issue: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/4714. I can write my own types to fix these problems, but maybe it's better to do it in the compiler?
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08:56:11FromGitter<endragor> @Araq don’t you find `typed`/`untyped` as macro return types counter-intuitive? They are clear for arguments, but not so for return type. What effect does specfying `typed` vs `untyped` for return type have on how macro is invoked? Should there actually be any difference?
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09:08:29FromGitter<x421> Hey, I just can't find the info anymore, I want a compile time switch for target os, e.g. ```when win_32```. I though I read it somewhere but I am searching for an hour now ... where do I find the doc about it?
09:12:15cheatfatex421: http://nim-lang.org/docs/manual.html#statements-and-expressions-when-statement
09:14:28FromGitter<x421> Thanks cheatfate, that's not what I was searching for though. I know the when statement but I am searching for the plattform symbols (if they exist, but as I said I am pretty sure I read about them).
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09:17:04cheatfatex421: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/devel/lib/system/platforms.nim
09:17:39FromGitter<x421> cheatfate: Thank you so much!
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10:55:06FromGitter<Araq> @endragor ignoring minor issues in the current implementation, you're right typed/untyped as macro return types are the same
10:55:21FromGitter<Araq> the old 'stmt' can be expressed as 'void' (and should be)
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11:06:13FromGitter<endragor> From `random` (https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/blob/master/lib/pure/random.nim#L19): ⏎ > # XXX Expose RandomGenState ⏎ Is there anything holding that off? Exposing `next()` would really be nice. A meaningful random implementation should provide a way to get specific number of random bits. Current implementation doesn’t allow that - everything returns undefined (platform-specific) number of bits, and performs a costly `mod` operation.
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11:09:17FromGitter<Araq> we need to eliminate the mod op, it's wrong
11:09:43FromGitter<Araq> there is an issue open for random.nim improvements
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11:14:44FromGitter<endragor> ok, found it, thanks
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12:27:54rudi_sCan I get a list of all available functions for a given variable, like dir() in python. e.g.: var x = 5; // get all functions which take an int as only parameter
12:29:54federico3that would be really handy
12:31:56flyxrudi_s: relevant: https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/3559
12:33:31flyx(not exactly what you are looking for, though)
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15:18:45FromGitter<endragor> BlaXSpirit: have you considered extracting `urandom` (wrapper around OS-specific source of true random values) part of your `nim-random` lib into a separate library? It seems self-sufficient
15:19:48federico3endragor, BlaXSpirit: the libsodium wrapper contains a function that does that
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15:23:07FromGitter<endragor> yeah, that’s what I’m saying - there are libraries that include it as a part, even though it deserves its own library. I don’t need libsodium and I don’t need everything else that `nim-random` provides.
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16:34:55stisa_Is there a way to do something similar to ``let x = [countup(0,10,2)] # [ 0, 2, 4 ,6 ,8 ,10] `` ?
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16:40:40dom96stisa_: try ``sequtils.toSeq(countup(0,10,2))``
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16:45:47stisa_dom96: works, thanks! But it doesn't work when step is a float, e.g.: ``toSeq(countup(0.0,1.0,0.1))`` because countup expects integer steps.
16:46:11dom96indeed, countup only works with integers
16:46:47stisa_well, I guess I'll have to define my own countup :)
16:47:59dom96precisely
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16:50:18flyxstisa_: there are also list comprehensions in the future module: echo lc[x | (x <- countup(0, 10, 2)), int]
16:51:02stisa_flyx: ooh nice
16:51:19flyxthis works: echo lc[0.1 * float(x) | (x <- countup(0, 10, 1)), float]
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16:55:37stisa_flyx: thanks, got it to work like this ``lc[ x | (x <- linspace(0.0, 2*Pi, 0.1)), float]``
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17:19:06libmanCurrent package ecosystem copyfreedom scores : Nim nimble 88.564% ; Lua rocks: 86.203% ; Haskell cabal 81.352% ; NodeJS npm 64.504% ; Ruby gems 38.854%
17:20:45libmanThe last two mainly reflect number of packages that don't mention a license. My Lua license analysis code is still pretty buggy, so the race is on! ;)
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17:24:54libmanThe above is in reference to my stupid little tool at https://github.com/lbmn/nim/tree/master/lice - I'm still in early stages of learning Nim.
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17:26:42libmanI started refactoring my code into some half-baked modular idea, got "cannot be passed to a procvar" (see http://forum.nim-lang.org/t/1682), got depressed, and went to see what's been happening in Goland... ;)
17:35:09libmanNim is a really beautiful language for simple things, but at the deeper end of the pool you start drowning in pragmas and other ugly things...
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17:53:22AraqI don't get the criticism. why can't you annotate the proc with .procvar to make it compile?
17:57:43dycewondering if there is better syntax for not (1 in [1,2]), like python can do if 1 not in [1,2]
17:58:13dom96dyce: if 1 notin [1,2]
17:58:18dycethanks
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18:02:52dom96Araq: I'm still unconvinced about the reasoning for this procvar business.
18:03:19dom96Let's make it easier for people to use first class functions.
18:10:14Araqif we get rid of procvar, every time we add a new default'ed parameter to the stdlib, it's a breaking change.
18:10:51dom96I remember this as the reason why it exists, but I don't understand it.
18:11:00dom96Why is it a breaking change in that case?
18:11:01Araq"still unconvinced"? or was that just a synonym for "i cannot remember the reason"? ;-)
18:13:14dycei just ordered a FPGA to install a risc-v soft processor, gonna try some nim apps on it :D
18:16:43dom96Hey Calinou, any ideas when you'll get to work on the website some more?
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18:21:14Mat4dyce: Which core do you plan to use ?
18:22:14dyceFreedom u500 by sifive https://dev.sifive.com/dev-kits/
18:22:26dycejust to get my feet wet
18:22:34dycehavent used a fpga before
18:22:58dyceMat4:
18:23:41Mat4I'm interested hearing about your experiences
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18:30:14Calinoudom96: I have some work to do this week-end, so not sure
18:30:28Araqargh my connection is so bad, sorry my replay made no sense
18:31:04Araqdom96: takesCallback(strutils.toLower)
18:31:25Araq--> if toLower gets a new parameter, the types become incompatible
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18:32:37dom96okay, so the callback type for `takesCallback` is: proc (x: string): string
18:32:56dom96the type of toLower is proc (x: string): string, but becomes proc (x: string, y=42): string
18:33:15dom96takesCallback should still accept `proc (x: string, y=42): string`
18:33:26dom96because it doesn't need to specify `y`
18:34:32Araqthat's a possible solution, but it's some work to implement that.
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18:35:07Araqit's only a half solution though since Nim also has templates and macros which cannot be passed to procvars either
18:35:32Araqso a change from proc to template in the stdlib would stay impossible
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18:37:14Araqnot to mention that every builtin in system.nim is not a proc
18:37:15dom96In that case it will just need to be a breaking change
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18:38:21dom96I know it's a lot of work, but adding 'procvar' everywhere is simply too annoying.
18:38:29dom96So I will create an issue for this
18:38:55dom96That's a good point. Passing `!=` won't work then
18:39:03dom96But it will still be better than what we have now
18:41:17Araqanother issue for this?
18:41:22Araqit's already an RFC
18:41:29libmanI am only an egg. I was a programmer once, but that was in the 90s and I had an order of magnitude more living braincells back then.
18:42:00Araqplus the workaround is not to add procvar everywhere, but to use x => foo(x) aka a lambda
18:42:12Araqwhich is what the compiler would need to create for you anyway
18:42:18libmanI guess I'm no longer an egg even. I am an omelet.
18:42:33dom96Oh, I guess I already created an issue for it https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/issues/2172
18:42:39Araqyes
18:43:11dom96I strongly believe this needs to happen before 1.0
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18:44:27libmanTo persuade pythontarded idiots like me to accept {.annoyance.}s, just tell us it's necessary to make Nim go really really fast. We'll believe you. ;)
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19:00:40rudi_sIs it expected that Table has no items() iterator?
19:03:16rudi_sfor x in table: would be nice to iterate over values
19:03:38Araqfor x in values table:
19:03:44Araqfor key, val in table
19:03:50Araqfor k in keys table:
19:04:00Araqit's nicer the way it is :P
19:04:36ldleworkIts nicer that you have to convert a type to another type just to iterate it naturally?
19:04:55ldleworkWhen the first type is a type that could support the iterator protocol?
19:05:17rudi_sI see, makes it explizit of what I'm iterting over.
19:05:50ldleworkrudi_s: technically you're no longer iterating over the dictionary
19:06:03ldleworkand instead a sequence returned by a method on the dictionary
19:06:54*ldlework shrugs.
19:07:10rudi_sldlework: Well, they are iterators.
19:07:50ldleworksure
19:08:56Araqthere is no unary "natural" iteration for dicts
19:09:03AraqJS iterates over the keys for that
19:09:08Araqnot the values.
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19:11:37ldleworksame for python
19:11:45ldleworkand ruby
19:11:58ldleworkand perl
19:13:04ldleworkand rust
19:13:18ldleworkoops not rust
19:13:26ldleworkI can't tell. I can't read rust O_O
19:13:42Araqrudi_s said "for x in table: would be nice to iterate over *values*"
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19:15:25ldleworkAraq: Sure, I saw that when they said it
19:16:05ldleworkI was just commenting about having to use a method to iterate the dictionary('s keys or values)
19:18:40FromGitter<Araq> for k, v in dict is the "natural" thing and doesn't require an explicit method
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19:24:11dom96https://example.com
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19:26:29hohlerde:-)
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19:27:29dom96I'm certainly not using this channel to test NimBot :P
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19:30:31dom96Just http://some.links and some text.
19:31:12dom96Some more https://links.com and text.
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19:53:42Calinoudom96: this university month will be busy, at least 3-4 works to give back before October
19:53:45Calinousorry :p
19:54:31dom96Calinou: it's okay
19:55:06dom96Calinou: Just don't forget about us :)
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19:58:17dom96yay, hyperlinkable IRC logs
19:58:24dom96http://irclogs.nim-lang.org/15-09-2016.html#19:58:17
19:58:45dom96And links are now rendered properly, although the regex captures too much
19:58:49dom96but it shall do for now
20:00:05FreezerburnVAraq, Just read through the procvar discussion. Why can't the compiler automatically generate " x => foo(x)" without needing to annotate a method with {.procvar.}? It already knows the annotation is needed, if I remember a compiler error I got a bit ago
20:00:42FreezerburnVSeems odd to tell the user to do something it already seems to know it needs tod o
20:00:50FromGitter<Araq> it can do that but -surprise! - features start with the state "not implemented" here in reality.
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20:02:01FreezerburnVHeh, funny how that works. Just figured I'd throw my input into the ring
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20:03:26dom96FreezerburnV: Thank you, it shows that others agree with me ;)
20:04:01FromGitter<Araq> that's always been the ultimate conclusion :P
20:04:06FromGitter<Araq> look at the github discussion
20:04:16FromGitter<Araq> nobody disagrees with it.
20:04:41FreezerburnVThere's just this finicky thing called "time" that is required to implement the thing, right? ;)
20:04:46FromGitter<Araq> the disagreement is only about whether some half-assed solution that simply disables the procvar check is worthwhile
20:05:45ldleworklol
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20:10:45dom96It really has been a long time... oldest IRC logs: http://irclogs.nim-lang.org/30-05-2012.html
20:13:04dom96Back in the days when Araq still welcomed everybody :P
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20:14:17FromGitter<Araq> such a nice friendly guy. what happened to him?
20:14:44FromGitter<Araq> ah, he got married.
20:15:10dom96haha
20:15:11FreezerburnVSee, I was going to attribute being grumpy to increasing popularity of the language, thus more users clamoring for things
20:15:25FreezerburnVBack when Nim was Nimrod, there were like, 5 people who knew the language
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20:45:57dom96GitHub's new reviews are pretty cool
20:46:35dom96Means multiple people can submit reviews and the PR submitter can then see an overview of the people that approve it/ask for changes/reject it.
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21:29:17rudi_sNo builtin way to create a tempfile?
21:31:29FromGitter<Araq> os.getTempDir iirc
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21:34:28rudi_sAraq: That returns a path to a directory where I can create temporary files. But I want to create the temporary file itself. With sane permissions and without race conditions.
21:36:12rudi_sHm. PathComponent and thus getFileInfo doesn't include information like character-device, block-device, etc. Is this planned or do I have to use something else?
21:41:04FromGitter<Araq> use posix.nim for posix stuff.
21:41:20FromGitter<Araq> lol @ char vs block device. is this 1970?
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21:56:19rudi_sAraq: All right. - Well, last time I checked I still have those files in /dev and I don't want to read from them so I have to differentiate them from normal files.
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22:01:08rudi_sAnd regarding tempfiles. Any idea? Is this something which would be accepted in a std lib?
22:03:05FromGitter<Araq> sure why not. but i also don't see the problem with races
22:04:11FromGitter<Araq> it's more useful when you're in control over the filename, otherwise you get some shitty uuid nobody can remember
22:04:15rudi_sAraq: Is this 1970? - Arbitrary file overwrites and symlinks are a major security issue and still a big problem.
22:07:42rudi_s(And without O_EXCL you can't create a (temporary) file which is not affected by this.)
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22:26:02FromGitter<Araq> I don't use temporary files for crucial data, so I don't see the problem. Nor do I use symlinks.
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23:07:42rudi_sAraq: The problem is that an attacker uses symlinks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symlink_race - it's also not relevant if you use important data or not. The moment you do something like fopen("/tmp/foo", "w") it's too late an attacker can overwrite an arbitrary file with the permissions of the writing user.
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23:24:46FromGitter<Araq> sounds like just another Unix bug to me
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23:55:47rudi_sYeah, you can call it a bug. Still needs to be handled for correct programs on any unix-like-system.
23:57:35rudi_s(And just curious, what system do you prefer developing for if it's not unix-like? Windows?)
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23:59:34FromGitter<Araq> it's not that I prefer Windows, it's just that everybody knows Windows and DOS are crap and people eventually need to face the truth that Unix is just as much horseshit