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| 05:45:40 | fov60 | any one use the nim assimp library? |
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| 06:56:14 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> I have previously |
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| 09:46:46 | shashlick | What's up doc |
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| 12:09:21 | Zevv | Trying to pinpoint compile-time performance problems I'v narrowed my problem down to Tables[] storing objects. |
| 12:09:44 | Zevv | This snippet stores 1000 objects indexed by an int and looks them up again. Storing is fast but looking up takes over 20 seconds on my machine: |
| 12:09:47 | Zevv | http://ix.io/1VeA |
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| 12:12:32 | Zevv | the interesting part is that the time spent seems to be proportional to the size of the object, but has nothing to do with the keys. It does not matter if the searched keys are in the table or not, only the size of the stored objects |
| 12:18:56 | Araq | interesting |
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| 12:20:00 | Zevv | My original problems was indexing by strings, so I started hunting down the hash functions, but no problems there |
| 12:21:15 | Zevv | it's really proportional. Horizontal object size, vertical run time: https://zevv.nl/div/graph.png |
| 12:21:43 | Araq | pointless copying going on internally? |
| 12:22:01 | Zevv | I have no clue. I got lost again in the VM :( |
| 12:24:28 | Araq | you can use macrocache.nim instead? |
| 12:26:01 | Zevv | hmm can that replace a Table[string, object]? |
| 12:27:31 | Zevv | I might as well just use seqs and do O(1) lookups, my tables are typically small |
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| 13:51:11 | Zevv | so, there's my 10x speedup, going from Table[] to seq[] :/ |
| 13:52:42 | disruptek | that could explain why my openapi stuff is so slow. |
| 13:53:18 | disruptek | it takes about 1sec per 1000 lines of code generated. |
| 13:54:08 | Zevv | that sounds about the same order of magnitude for my stuff as well |
| 13:54:52 | disruptek | i need to figure out a pattern for compile-time tests this week. |
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| 13:58:13 | federico3 | Zevv you mean O(n)? |
| 13:59:01 | disruptek | wrong answers delivered in O(1) time. |
| 13:59:25 | federico3 | For small hasmaps, linear search on an array can be faster |
| 13:59:37 | federico3 | huh? |
| 14:00:14 | Zevv | federico3: yes of course, O(n) |
| 14:00:32 | FromGitter | <geotre> Is there any way to "simplify" a generic type to a regular type? |
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| 14:00:52 | disruptek | what are you trying to do? |
| 14:01:16 | FromGitter | <geotre> json "to" macro doesn't work with generics, but all api types need to be wrapped in a list type with some extra fields |
| 14:01:29 | FromGitter | <geotre> And trying to reduce repetition |
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| 14:02:43 | disruptek | that sounds like a superset of support for generics in the `to` macro. |
| 14:02:51 | disruptek | ie. it sounds even harder than the original problem. |
| 14:04:26 | disruptek | can you use a variant instead? |
| 14:07:13 | FromGitter | <geotre> Ideally want to do something like this: http://ix.io/1Vfn |
| 14:07:20 | FromGitter | <geotre> Can try a variant |
| 14:07:20 | disruptek | i wonder if one could write a macro to de-generic a generic. |
| 14:07:41 | FromGitter | <geotre> Yeah that's what I was thinking, wondered if someone had already done it |
| 14:08:23 | disruptek | you could make another variant type that is ListElement; usage would be pretty close to natural generic version, ultimately. |
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| 14:11:23 | FromGitter | <geotre> Yeah that is true |
| 14:14:05 | FromGitter | <mratsim> @disruptek, I think degeneric a generic is called monomorphization |
| 14:14:39 | FromGitter | <mratsim> or reification |
| 14:16:01 | federico3 | tables could implement a fallback to seq when it makes sense |
| 14:16:10 | disruptek | sure, but aside from doing it the naive way in syntax, can it be done in semantics? |
| 14:16:12 | federico3 | even to array |
| 14:17:44 | disruptek | federico3: easier to just make a special type and avoid a bump. |
| 14:19:26 | FromGitter | <geotre> @mratsim I wasn't sure what that process would be called, thanks |
| 14:20:11 | FromGitter | <Vindaar> @geotre the problem afaict with your code is not that `List` is a generic, but rather that it's a generic to a `ref object`. So if you can have `List[T]` be an `object` your example works |
| 14:20:36 | FromGitter | <mratsim> @FedericoCeratto bad idea, I don't want to debug strange perf profile in tables, I'd rather have the raw data structure in the stdlib and then if someone wants to impelment an optimized table add it as a nimble packages |
| 14:20:55 | disruptek | that's what i meant by "bump". |
| 14:23:12 | FromGitter | <geotre> @Vindaar ah you are correct! I had assumed it was because of the generic as the first example compiles fine, and with the generic example it gives an error that's hard to follow. Thanks for the help |
| 14:23:21 | FromGitter | <Vindaar> :) |
| 14:23:37 | disruptek | that's a surprise. |
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| 14:33:32 | federico3 | disruptek: yes, a SmallTable and also a write-once table |
| 14:35:19 | disruptek | okay, so that's an order of SmallTable, WormTable, BugTable, what else? |
| 14:35:55 | federico3 | mratsim: there is nothing wrong in providing smarter data structures in a language that comes battery included. Especially if raw d.s. perform poorly |
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| 15:04:41 | FromGitter | <mratsim> yes but don't overwrite the default table |
| 15:04:57 | FromGitter | <mratsim> same thing with seq vs SmallSeq |
| 15:05:30 | FromGitter | <mratsim> current seq are very inefficient if you always need less than 2-4 elements |
| 15:06:43 | FromGitter | <mratsim> but if you always use big seqs, and default is overridden you will always pay the "is my seq small?" check tax. |
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| 15:28:01 | disruptek | it's about time we had a little seqs talk in here. |
| 15:30:17 | FromGitter | <Varriount> @deech The best you can do is use `system.compiles` to perform an explicit test. |
| 15:36:26 | Zevv | disruptek: not in front of the kids! |
| 15:36:40 | disruptek | oh, right. |
| 15:38:26 | Zevv | I *will* steal that and use that as a section header in the "nim memory" doc |
| 15:38:39 | disruptek | heh |
| 15:40:27 | disruptek | btw, when i want seqs, i rarely want a size less than 2. |
| 15:40:43 | disruptek | honestly, it's hard to imagine exactly who would. |
| 15:42:19 | Zevv | everybody would, but noone talks about it |
| 15:42:21 | disruptek | perhaps mratsim is a grower, not a shower. |
| 15:43:04 | disruptek | empty seqs is just that, zevv. |
| 15:43:23 | disruptek | we don't talk about it, but it's very inefficient. |
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| 15:55:36 | Zevv | haha I am so funny http://zevv.nl/nim-memory/#_lets_talk_about_seqs |
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| 15:57:30 | Zevv | aaaand thats enough with the silly stuff for today |
| 15:57:37 | filcuc | The output of "nimble tasks" has some kind of format? |
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| 16:03:00 | federico3 | mratsim: sure. And it would be best to default to smart types and suggest selecting specialized types as an optimization |
| 16:03:47 | FromGitter | <mratsim> @disruptek, I need small seq of size 1 |
| 16:04:01 | FromGitter | <mratsim> up to 5 |
| 16:04:35 | FromGitter | <mratsim> because people most often use tensors of rank 1 (vectors) and rank 2 (matrices) |
| 16:05:32 | FromGitter | <mratsim> the small seq is used to store the vector/matrix sizes and strides |
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| 16:59:57 | Zevv | mratsim: is your problem the default cap of seqs? |
| 17:00:19 | Zevv | or the overhead in the way it is implemented? |
| 17:00:28 | FromGitter | <mratsim> no, I don't have a problem with seqs |
| 17:00:52 | FromGitter | <mratsim> I need small seqs due to perf requirements when I need several small seq in small loops |
| 17:01:46 | Zevv | ah right |
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| 17:17:27 | blu | Where is the best place to keep up to date with Nim's development between releases? GitHub issues? |
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| 17:27:29 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> how to a read an entire binary file and get the size of the data read? |
| 17:31:49 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> is there a way to get the size of a filestream? |
| 17:34:03 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> here's some SDL2 code I've been using to do what I want, but I'd like to just use Nim if possible: |
| 17:34:34 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> https://gist.github.com/zacharycarter/7222f163f2efd0cc56231efcb73bbd5e |
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| 17:46:48 | Zevv | zacharycarter: https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=1Vh4 ? |
| 17:46:50 | Zevv | simple as that? |
| 17:48:46 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> it's a binary file though |
| 17:49:03 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> guess I should have specified that |
| 17:50:06 | Zevv | oh its a windows thing? |
| 17:50:16 | Zevv | The whole conscept of "binary file" eludes me :/ |
| 17:51:03 | Zevv | formatMode[fmRead] is "rb", so isn't readFile() doing the right thing? |
| 17:51:34 | FromGitter | <Kiloneie> Is Discord not getting fixed anytime soon ? |
| 17:52:17 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> probably but I don't think the length of the read string is the size of the data read necessarily |
| 17:53:03 | Zevv | well, if it reads all the data in binary mode into a string |
| 17:53:12 | Zevv | how can the size of the string not be the size of the data? |
| 17:53:22 | Zevv | it just slurps the whole thing |
| 17:55:36 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> but that's not what I want to do |
| 17:55:43 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> I want to read the binary data in the file into memory |
| 17:55:55 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> it's not a text file |
| 17:56:15 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> I can just use the sdl2 code I have for now since it works |
| 17:56:44 | Zevv | yes but no but yes but. Thats what it does. Readfile reads a complete binary file into memory? |
| 17:57:07 | Zevv | but what do you do with the data, do you need the raw pointer? because then there might be a better option, using memfiles. |
| 17:57:22 | Zevv | That will allow zero copy memory access |
| 18:02:24 | Zevv | zacharycarter: https://play.nim-lang.org/#ix=1Vh4 |
| 18:02:50 | Zevv | this is the cheapest you can get: it opens the file but does not copy it into a buffer. instead the OS does magic for you and offers you access to the file 'directly' |
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| 18:03:08 | Zevv | you get a generic pointer and the size, and the rest is up to you |
| 18:03:41 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> well - I tried that example already and it didn't work so I'll just use SDL2's RWOps |
| 18:03:54 | Zevv | what is "didn't work" exactly? |
| 18:04:30 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> it produced an invalid shader handle so bgfx didn't like the pointer I passed to it I'm assuming |
| 18:04:54 | Zevv | interesting. What is in the file, texture data? |
| 18:05:00 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> no it's just a compiled shader |
| 18:05:04 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> but the example I posted earlier works fine |
| 18:05:52 | Zevv | well, of only shaders the memFile gain is probably not worth the hassle. I thought you were doing textures. |
| 18:07:48 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> ah, for textures I think I have things worked out - in fact I didn't really need to re-write this code but I figured if there was a pure Nim solution that was easy to arrive at that would work, it'd be fine |
| 18:08:08 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> but I think the SDL code will suffice |
| 18:08:19 | FromGitter | <zacharycarter> I already have sdl2 in my codebase anyway, no harm in using it :P |
| 18:24:52 | Zevv | although it feels a bit like cheating :) |
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| 20:42:31 | LyndsySimon | Could someone point me to an example of a shell script written in Nim? I’m wanting to see how you handle arguments and the output of `—help` in particular. |
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| 20:58:19 | FromGitter | <mratsim> most use cligen: https://github.com/c-blake/cligen |
| 20:58:28 | FromGitter | <mratsim> @LyndsySimon ^ |
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| 21:07:56 | LyndsySimon | Ty |
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| 22:56:22 | NotCreative | Any ideas why making a .nims file with the following contents: "--out:bin/foo" causes my program to be compiled to "bin / foo"(spaces around slash) instead of "bin/foo"? |
| 22:57:34 | NotCreative | Im running Nim 0.20.2 |
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| 23:44:46 | FromGitter | <kayabaNerve> ... you can directly type CLI options into Nimscript files? |
| 23:45:41 | FromGitter | <kayabaNerve> I'm guessing because it's treating the / as an operator, not a character. I don't actually know though. |
| 23:49:22 | NotCreative | Ahh, thanks. I didn't realize that the .nims is Nimscript. I'm going through Nim in Action and the author simply said to place compilation flags in it |
| 23:49:45 | NotCreative | using switch("out", "bin/foo") worked |
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