<< 16-09-2019 >>
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01:47:51FromGitter<Obround> How do you make a proc accept any proc as an argument?
01:49:29FromGitter<kayabaNerve> You have to cast it down to proc () and then back up when you call it.
01:49:41FromGitter<kayabaNerve> ... I forget if you need to use ptr proc or not.
01:49:55FromGitter<Obround> ?
01:50:51FromGitter<kayabaNerve> Apparently I deleted my event library. Damn.
01:51:00FromGitter<kayabaNerve> What's the questioned part?
01:51:09FromGitter<zetashift> @Obround you want ANY proc so signature can be anything?
01:51:34FromGitter<Obround> I kinda don't understand how to implement (New to Nim).
01:51:46FromGitter<zetashift> well you have to have some type
01:51:54FromGitter<zetashift> https://nim-by-example.github.io/procvars/
01:52:18FromGitter<Obround> Ok...
01:52:33FromGitter<zetashift> have an example of what you want to achieve?
01:53:37FromGitter<Obround> Yes, like this: ⏎ ⏎ ```proc getTypeOfProc*(x: proc()): string = ⏎ return "type proc"``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5d7eeb2105fd37169531484c]
01:54:20FromGitter<kayabaNerve> You'd need to use something from macros.
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01:57:46FromGitter<Obround> Could you give me an example?
01:57:53FromGitter<kayabaNerve> Not at the moment.
01:58:06FromGitter<kayabaNerve> I did write an example for how you used to be able to throw procs around.
01:58:11FromGitter<kayabaNerve> ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/nim-lang/Nim?at=5d7eec336f00d0700fb49841]
01:58:35FromGitter<kayabaNerve> You used to be able to do that, without needing main/closure/the call to main (IIRC). It appears that's no longer supported.
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01:58:48FromGitter<kayabaNerve> And then that code is actually a MWE as it generates invalid C.
01:59:13FromGitter<kayabaNerve> I'd create an issue but I also don't have time to test it on Nim devel to verify it's not already fixed.
01:59:25FromGitter<Obround> Ok, thanks :)
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02:40:07FromGitter<zetashift> @Obround you could try to make a forum topic, the more knowledgeable people are usually not around at this time
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06:59:08BonusSodaNim moment
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07:18:17FromGitter<zacharycarter> is anyone actively working on any FP libraries for Nim?
07:19:10FromGitter<zacharycarter> several Scala fans at work and some interest has been expressed in Nim
07:21:18Araqwell what we have is stable, I think
07:25:25FromGitter<zacharycarter> cool - thanks! I'll tell them to check out nimble.directory then
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07:57:39FromGitter<zacharycarter> not very many - https://github.com/nim-lang/Nim/labels/New%20runtime - issues :D does that mean it's getting close to stable / usable?
07:57:49FromGitter<zacharycarter> or just that not many are using it?
07:58:08FromGitter<zacharycarter> if it's the former, I may start porting the code I've wrote for frag over to it
08:02:00Araqthe stdlib hasn't been ported and closures are buggy
08:02:19FromGitter<mratsim> The main issue with FP is that we can't pass builtins like '+' and we often need to tag with nimcall or closures which is annoying
08:02:58FromGitter<mratsim> Also tail call optimization is only done in release
08:03:23Araqwould I bet money on it and base my product on it? yes, but I'm in the special position to be able to fix showstopper implementation bugs :-)
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08:06:50Araqmratsim: well you can pass '+' to a template
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08:15:17FromGitter<mratsim> I'm past the phase of doing FP in Nim
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08:15:33FromGitter<mratsim> I only need dependent types and higher kindred types :p
08:15:45FromGitter<mratsim> kinded*
08:22:15FromGitter<zacharycarter> well my co-worker was asking about higher kinded types
08:22:26FromGitter<zacharycarter> but I think he knows you can achieve them with Nim
08:22:46FromGitter<zacharycarter> okay then - I guess I will wait on newruntime since I use the stdlib still
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08:38:17Zevvmratsim: is TCO done by nim or does nim rely on the C compiler for that?
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08:44:40FromGitter<mratsim> C compiler
08:44:59FromGitter<mratsim> You can do HKT with Nim but it's not pretty
08:45:30FromGitter<mratsim> You need macros that works on typedesc which are often very finicky
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09:40:01nc-xAnybody tried `nimble init` && `nimble build` recently?
09:40:39nc-xIt fails for me with `Could not read package info file (etc.)`
09:41:14nc-xbecause the *.nimble file does not contain quotes around the `author` and `description`
09:41:24Zevvthere was a bug some time ago messign up nimble cache files
09:41:31Zevvsomewhere in /tmp is your nimble cache, delete it
09:42:43nc-xI think this issue is unrelated. this bug is with `nimble init` not producing quotes.
09:43:03Zevvah right, that line just came in when I was already typing :)
09:48:33nc-xCreated an issue https://github.com/nim-lang/nimble/issues/700
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09:52:23Araqshashlick, dom96 can we get a new Nimble release please?
09:53:35dom96Yes, but likely later in the week (latest I have time is on Wednesday)
09:54:27nc-x[m]this issue is on `koch --latest nimble` as well
09:54:29nc-x[m]so needs to be fixed before the release i think
09:54:53dom96should be a simple PR, up for fixing it?
09:55:02FromGitter<alehander42> @mratsim
09:55:09FromGitter<alehander42> you like haskell now?
09:59:28Araqdom96, what do you mean?
10:00:02dom96I mean I won't have time for a Nimble release until later in the week
10:00:25Araqno the "should be a simple PR" part
10:01:27nc-x[m]https://github.com/nim-lang/nimble/pull/701
10:01:28nc-x[m]Araq: he meant this
10:03:02dom96well, that's not correct. `escape` was used before
10:03:29dom96but because it turned UTF-8 to escaped characters in the string people were upset
10:03:38dom96just wrap it in a quote
10:05:03AraqI'd use """ around it
10:06:23dom96I wouldn't
10:07:35Araqok but then it's at least '"' & foo.replace("\"", "\\\"") & '"'
10:08:03nc-x[m]Should it be done for the other fields as well though?
10:08:45nc-x[m]i.e. remove escape() and just add quotes
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10:14:01dom96no, it only makes sense for author and description I think
10:14:05dom96description can use the triple quptes
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10:15:11FromGitter<mratsim> @alehander42 I've always liked Haskell, it was my first language (not counting bash and Excel)
10:15:32FromGitter<alehander42> oh, a good start
10:15:34FromGitter<mratsim> Only grips I have with it is speed and the ceremony around IO.
10:15:38FromGitter<alehander42> my first languages were c++ and php :P
10:16:05FromGitter<mratsim> And my first Linux distro was Gentoo :P
10:16:10FromGitter<alehander42> yeah, that's why i want to try ocaml .. have to really do it one day
10:16:17Araqmy first language was "Think Pascal" iirc
10:16:25Araqon macs
10:17:33Araqit would format your code as you typed it in, two decades later people got excited over "go fmt", it's all so sad...
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10:19:28FromGitter<mratsim> Let the go people be excited about something :P
10:19:48FromGitter<mratsim> Generics and better error handling coming in v2.0
10:20:22nc-x[m]dom96: using """ would break if someone has three simultaneous quotes in their description
10:20:53nc-x[m]so i think using .replace() is a good enough solution
10:21:10FromGitter<alehander42> i've heard great things about pascal
10:21:20FromGitter<alehander42> my father introduced me to the delphi UI stuff
10:21:48FromGitter<alehander42> he was doing ok apps for job with it and he isn't even a professional programmer at all
10:21:54FromGitter<alehander42> that's how intuitive it was
10:22:43FromGitter<alehander42> (i mean, many people studied pascal here during communism iirc)
10:23:02Zevvalehander42: where is 'here'?
10:23:17FromGitter<alehander42> bulgaria
10:30:49*Zevv waves eastwards
10:34:15FromGitter<alehander42> many dutch people here
10:34:43FromGitter<zetashift> I count 2? ;P, we do have a lot of europeans
10:35:52FromGitter<alehander42> i am surrounded by them now
10:36:00FromGitter<alehander42> and i thought the balkans were safe
10:36:28FromGitter<alehander42> do people in netherlands have any kind of national attachment to python?
10:36:33FromGitter<alehander42> i've noticed a bit of that in japan and ruby
10:36:38FromGitter<zetashift> A lot of students in middle school went to Bulgaria/Czech for exam celebration
10:36:44FromGitter<alehander42> but i guess this is not really a thing in western europe
10:36:47FromGitter<zetashift> I didn't like people in my middle school so I didn;t go
10:37:16FromGitter<zetashift> I don't know the previous situation but I do know the current. Uni's are full on Python in a lot of studies(even non CS)
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10:37:33FromGitter<alehander42> oh yeah, many tourists come to the sea resorts
10:37:41FromGitter<alehander42> there was something like a boom in cheap flights
10:37:52FromGitter<zetashift> iirc a lot of archviz/civil engineering get Python/C++
10:38:10FromGitter<alehander42> interesting, but is it because python started in holland
10:38:17FromGitter<alehander42> or just because its a popular teaching language
10:38:31FromGitter<zetashift> Python was my first language too but not because of study, but because of StackOverflow
10:38:40FromGitter<zetashift> I think I googled 'How to make warcraft 3' or something
10:38:53FromGitter<zetashift> and ended going down the whole rabbit hole
10:40:09FromGitter<alehander42> yeah, i wanted to write a search engine, and started reading old pagerank-like tuts
10:40:15FromGitter<alehander42> and thats how i started with python
10:41:18FromGitter<alehander42> i still remember `idle` on windows :P
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10:47:51FromGitter<zetashift> oooooo yeaaa
10:52:58Zevvwho is the other dutchie then?
10:53:28ZevvI always thought I was the only dutch nim user :)
10:56:12FromGitter<mratsim> Oh Idle, I remember always wondering what it was on my fxvm (?) desktop
10:59:16FromGitter<zacharycarter> so glad I didn't start with Python
10:59:39FromGitter<zacharycarter> but then again - I didn't pass my AP comp sci exam in HS with C++, and then gave up on comp sci until after graduating from unit
10:59:47FromGitter<zacharycarter> so maybe I should have started with Python :P
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11:01:05FromGitter<alehander42> i really didnt get c++ in high school
11:01:35ZevvThey tried to teach me C++ as well, but I didn't get it :(
11:01:36FromGitter<alehander42> honestly, php made me like programming
11:01:39FromGitter<zetashift> @zevv me!
11:01:56Zevvzetashift \o/ Where you at?
11:02:09FromGitter<zetashift> Rotterdam
11:02:17*Zevv waves west
11:02:23Zevv(amersfoort)
11:02:43FromGitter<zetashift> I've only passed amersfoort in my life
11:03:00Zevvat least you've been near :)
11:03:23FromGitter<zetashift> and it means Netherlands has atleast 2 Nim users!
11:04:00Zevvnot bad, out of 17.3e6
11:05:10FromGitter<alehander42> wow, you're a lot
11:06:03Zevvyeah we're pretty high density
11:06:36lqdev[m]Zevv: shouldn't that be 1.73e7?
11:07:10ZevvI find it hard to think in exponents other then (3*n)
11:07:27FromGitter<zacharycarter> I want to visit Amsterdam
11:07:35FromGitter<zacharycarter> hopefully next Spring
11:08:01Zevvzacharycarter: highly overrated, huge tourist trap
11:08:51FromGitter<zacharycarter> yeah - but I'll be a tourist ;P
11:09:06*Zevv admits that kind of makes sense
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11:10:58lqdev[m]Zevv: I only really saw that because we had scientific notation on maths today :P
11:11:04FromGitter<alehander42> i also wanted to visit amsterdam for a lot
11:11:12FromGitter<alehander42> but now i prefer to visit the country
11:11:20FromGitter<zacharycarter> plus I want to do all the fun things in Amerstadm, and by fun I mean the things that are illegal elsewhere :P
11:11:26FromGitter<alehander42> and drive bike in your between-city roads (you have those right)
11:11:37FromGitter<zacharycarter> whatever - I'm done trying to spell
11:11:48Zevvwe have the weed, we have the biks. come visit us and spend your money here!
11:12:54FromGitter<alehander42> i like the dutch language
11:13:03FromGitter<alehander42> it sounds kinda unique
11:13:06FromGitter<alehander42> in pronuncuation
11:13:14FromGitter<zetashift> gotta agree with Zevv on the Amsterdam thing
11:13:24FromGitter<zetashift> other cities have weed bikes and shit too
11:13:31FromGitter<zetashift> unless you REALLY like the museums
11:13:56Zevvalehander42: this is pretty typical here: http://zevv.nl/div/fietspad.jpg. Red is bikes, grey is cars
11:14:18FromGitter<zacharycarter> okay - where should I visit then?
11:14:24FromGitter<alehander42> very professional zevv
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11:14:39FromGitter<alehander42> i have a friend who will love it
11:14:55FromGitter<alehander42> he drives in the car roads here
11:15:05FromGitter<alehander42> no other options usually between city
11:15:21ZevvI tried biking in other countries, death whish
11:15:57FromGitter<alehander42> it's a bit extreme
11:16:21FromGitter<alehander42> is it true that bikers have full
11:16:24FromGitter<zacharycarter> I think riding a motorcycle is more dangerous
11:16:28FromGitter<zacharycarter> but also more fun :)
11:16:35FromGitter<alehander42> how is it called, like "first right" on the road in your driving laws
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11:16:49FromGitter<alehander42> right of way*
11:17:38FromGitter<zetashift> @zacharycarter what do you like? The Hague is also pretty popular. Rotterdam is nice too but a pretty modern city(like the buildings and roads of the inner city are sortof new because of the ww2 bombardment)
11:19:53Zevvamsterdam museums are overly crowded as well these days. They sell time slot tickets now, you book in advance and you get an hour and a half. That really really sucks.
11:20:02FromGitter<zacharycarter> bleh
11:21:06FromGitter<zacharycarter> Museums aren't really my thing anyway - I hate how slow people walk and how long some of them take to get through.
11:21:33FromGitter<zacharycarter> Anywhere that has nature nearby and good food will work for me :)
11:22:29FromGitter<zacharycarter> some history would be cool too
11:22:56FromGitter<zacharycarter> I'd probably only be going for a weekend and a couple of days tops
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11:25:51FromGitter<zacharycarter> tickets aren't too expensive for next April either - round trip is like € 326 on Kayak
11:27:21FromGitter<zacharycarter> going to be over 1000 euros to go back home for the holidays :/
11:27:32Zevvwe'll make sure to host the first Dutch Nim Usergroup Conference by then
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11:29:44FromGitter<alehander42> i have to visit finland
11:29:55FromGitter<alehander42> Zevv, oh yeah another candidate for NimConf2020
11:29:56FromGitter<alehander42> :P
11:30:52FromGitter<zacharycarter> don't visit Finland for the food
11:30:56FromGitter<zacharycarter> I've learned that much since I've been here
11:32:34FromGitter<zacharycarter> Helsinki is a pretty big tech hub for the size of the country anyway
11:32:36FromGitter<zacharycarter> lots of game studios here
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11:45:16FromGitter<alehander42> big lake hub
11:45:17FromGitter<alehander42> also
11:45:52FromGitter<zacharycarter> yup
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12:35:10FromGitter<zetashift> (this is kinda getting off-topic) but @zacharycarter if you like nature you're better off going more the cities east. They have more nature areas. Some calm nature is something you definitely won't find in Amsterdam/Rotterdam
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12:36:00FromGitter<zetashift> You'll find better food more in the city regions tho(imho)
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12:39:55Zevvwell, who cares about off topic when noone else is talking on-topic anyway :)
12:43:30PMunchWe should have a Nim conf in Tromsø, that way I don't have to travel anywhere for once..
12:45:36FromGitter<alehander42> cold !!!
12:45:48PMunchNot inside :)
12:46:01PMunchBesides, it's not that cold here as it's by the coast :)
12:52:25narimiranPMunch: i still remember your not-1st-April-joke about 2 meters of fresh snow
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12:54:21PMunchHaha, it was only 61cm :P
12:54:44PMunchAnd it wasn't all that cold, just loads of snow
12:55:14PMunchSee? https://www.yr.no/stasjon/eklima/90450/graf/aar.eng.png
12:55:35FromGitter<zetashift> FOSDEM is like the unofficial Nim meetup last years :p
12:55:57PMunchYeah, and this year it will hopefully be even better :) If we get the newer languages devroom
12:56:26FromGitter<zetashift> since I'll be studying nearby I'm hoping to go to it
12:56:31FromGitter<zetashift> will be my first conference
12:57:33PMunchFOSDEM is great, you should definitely try to go :)
12:57:43PMunchAnd it's free to attend, which is really nice
13:05:50FromGitter<zacharycarter> where is it held?
13:05:55FromGitter<zacharycarter> I guess I can google
13:06:26FromGitter<zacharycarter> might have to see if I can convince work to let me go :)
13:07:00FromGitter<zacharycarter> since it's on a weekend I should be able to I imagine
13:07:23Araqzacharycarter: you're working for a game dev shop, right?
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13:08:37FromGitter<zacharycarter> yeah - Wargaming
13:10:04Araqdo you use C++? if so, do you also use its STL?
13:10:47FromGitter<zacharycarter> I'm not sure about our in house engine(s), I imagine WoT does but the game I work on is all Unity / C#
13:10:51FromGitter<zacharycarter> I can ask though
13:10:53FromGitter<zetashift> Don't gamdev companies use EASTL https://github.com/electronicarts/EASTL or their own STL's
13:10:59FromGitter<zetashift> usually use*
13:11:09FromGitter<zacharycarter> yeah - I imagine we don't use C++'s STL
13:11:21FromGitter<zacharycarter> but I can't answer definitively either
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13:11:49PMunchzacharycarter, FOSDEM is held in Bruxelles
13:11:57PMunchWait, Brussels?
13:12:17FromGitter<zacharycarter> looks like I will be travelling quite a bit next year :)
13:12:31FromGitter<zetashift> Bruxelles is the french name, Brussels is what non-french usually call it
13:13:16PMunchYeah I know, but I lived in Liege for a year and I never got used to not calling it Bruxelles :P
13:13:25PMunchI do it in my native language as well
13:15:14FromGitter<zetashift> both are correct!
13:15:22FromGitter<zetashift> though Bruxelles always sounds fancier
13:19:28PMunchI say it the normal way though, unless I'm speaking French
13:20:29PMunchBelgian place names are weird, especially when you're not used to them
13:21:38PMunchYou gotta keep a list of names for every city/place
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13:22:56PMunchLiege for example can also be called Luik if you speak to a Flemmish/Dutch person or Luttich if you are talking to a German person (or one from the small german region of Belgium)
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13:25:30poopBotyep bot is dead
13:25:38PMunchHuh?
13:25:51PMunch!eval echo "Hello world"
13:25:54NimBotHello world
13:25:58PMunchNo he's not
13:26:09poopBot*discord is dead
13:26:14poopBotrelay
13:26:27PMunchOh yeah, that's been down for a while now..
13:26:34PMunchNot sure who configured that..
13:26:40PMunchMaybe dom96 knows?
13:27:06FromGitter<alehander42> one day we'll find out a forgotten discord group of people
13:27:15FromGitter<alehander42> who developed their own nim
13:27:23FromGitter<alehander42> hiding in the trenches
13:27:29disruptekthere's a separate community on telegram.
13:27:44FromGitter<alehander42> yeah, it had too many memes
13:27:48PMunchHaha, "after the original devs abandoned us we took over the torch and carried Nim forward!"
13:27:48FromGitter<alehander42> i guess its a telegram thing
13:28:07PMunchHaha, yeah the Telegram group is.. Special?..
13:28:07FromGitter<alehander42> yeah, we'll find them in 2043, still working on v1
13:28:45PMunchIt was originally meant to only coordinate stuff during FOSDEM, since IRC doesn't work too well on phones without some setup
13:36:36alexander92hm, i used one app
13:36:45alexander92and i thought it works fine
13:36:47alexander92for irc
13:37:09PMunchA bit depending on how it's set up it will eat battery IIRC
13:37:33PMunchBecause it essentially needs to keep a connection alive
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13:41:55sealmoveany recommendation for Gui development in pure Nim?
13:45:20Araqnigui? dunno, I'm out of the loop
13:47:11poopBoti just noticed that there was less chat in discord dident even know why, until 1 dude just posted about it
13:47:57PMunchsealmove, depends on what kind of GUI you want to create
13:48:32sealmovePMunch: I am thinking of turning https://github.com/sealmove/hex into gui at some point.
13:50:38sealmoveBy the way, Kaitai Struct merged the first Nim changes 🎉 !, https://github.com/kaitai-io/kaitai_struct_compiler/pull/170 If anyone is interested he can help.
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13:52:33sealmove(Disclaimer, Kaitai Struct is in Scala)
13:56:31PMunchCross platform?
13:56:50PMunchIf nigui is up to the task I would use that
13:56:58PMunchOr you could use wxNim
13:57:58Araqdoes wxNim work with Nim devel?
13:58:21PMunchNo idea to be honest
13:58:43PMunchGive me a sec
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13:59:40PMunchSeems to work fine
13:59:45PMunchOn the devel I had lying around
14:00:23PMunchWhich is from Friday I believe
14:00:36sealmovePMunch, how is nimlsp going along?
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14:01:47PMunchWell, it works
14:02:05PMunchAt least mostly..
14:02:22PMunchIt's still a bit of a pain to build properly though..
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14:08:56Araqomg from Friday?! that's old...
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14:11:51PMunchIf it wasn't for the fact that it's 4:11 already I'd update it and try again for you :P
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15:17:24FromGitter<awr1> @Araq most game companies do not use STL
15:17:30FromGitter<awr1> full of certain...questionable impls
15:17:33FromGitter<awr1> https://www.ilikebigbits.com/2016_08_28_hash_table.html
15:18:02FromGitter<awr1> for example i don't think UE4 uses STL
15:23:07FromGitter<awr1> @PMunch @alehander42 the other group calls everyone else heretics for no longer saying "nimrod"
15:25:02alexander92nimrod is a bad name
15:25:14alexander92hm, yeah i remember unity reinventing the compiler as well
15:26:00shashlickI agree the telegram group is hard to keep up with especially since the bridge to slack makes the message unreadable
15:26:21shashlickEveryone tends to reply to a specific message so there's constant repeats
15:26:28FromGitter<awr1> yeah unity does a lot of tricks to squeeze performance
15:26:43FromGitter<awr1> they got some talented engineers
15:29:58FromGitter<awr1> i don't have it in me to read it right now but i have heard a lot of the problems w/ the STL are spec-imposed
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16:13:38FromGitter<awr1> quick little test out of curiosity: nim program using `tables` and the same program rewritten in C++ using `unordered_map` gives nim as being about 3x-4x faster
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16:22:24Araqbut unordered_map sucks and everybody knows it :P
16:22:34Araqbenchmark against abseil's implementation
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16:39:18poopBotawrl: meybe try amnestyc form rust if looking for perfomace , tought i think its still alpha
16:39:43poopBotwhen newruntime = magic ?
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16:57:47AraqpoopBot: what do you mean?
16:59:00poopBotwhen new runtime be fully ready and happy for usage
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17:12:06AraqpoopBot: development focus shifted a bit to get the better strings, seqs and destructors production ready with the existing Nim
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17:52:51shashlick@Araq what's your opinion on ccache
17:53:37shashlickIs using it with Nim warranted / valuable?
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17:54:36FromGitter<zacharycarter> alexander92: I think Nim built a compiler 'burst' specifically for their implementation of ECS / Jobs
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18:06:48FromGitter<zacharycarter> Unity I meant
18:11:15Araqshashlick: I don't see the point in it
18:16:49shashlickDoes it do what Nim does already today or do parts of incremental compilation which you already have built up mostly
18:19:28Araqwe cache the C code and run the C compiler in parallel and don't produce exploding header files
18:19:35Araqwhat else could we do?
18:19:44AraqNim builds faster than native C++ projects
18:21:48shashlickOk so reading your IC issue, looks like you already do what ccache does in Nim
18:22:11shashlickBut what you are building is a ccache for Nim = IC
18:22:42Araqyes
18:23:42shashlickUnderstood
18:38:26Araqshashlick: what about a Nimble release?
18:38:40Araqdon't want to release v1 with a random nimble commit hash
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20:32:22k0mpjut0rHello, has anyone tried hot code reloading with Jester? How's it working out, any experience to share?
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20:49:27Araqnever tried it :-)
20:50:53Araqdon't see the point for servers, you can easily use a load balancer
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21:51:11dom96what hot code reloading actually get you for that use case?
21:51:13dom96*what does
21:51:31dom96You'll still need to wait for a recompilation which is the main waster of time
21:51:42dom96if you're writing a web app, it ideally shouldn't share state between requests.
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23:59:48shashlick@Araq we can do that, what's the schedule for v1?