| 00:22:00 | FromDiscord | <saint._._.> In reply to @battery.acid.bubblegum "I'm moving to Nimskull,": Why are you moving to nimskull? |
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| 01:50:39 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> Friendlier devs and are receptive to feedback and also pleasant folk to talk to↵(@saint._._.) |
| 01:51:16 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> They actually want to push the project in a direction that benefits the language rather than committing hard to poor design choices made in the past |
| 01:59:36 | FromDiscord | <saint._._.> In reply to @Robyn "They actually want to": Interesting |
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| 02:04:33 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> yeah, also i am personally invested in its success \:P↵↵I can contribute to its ecosystem in a major way! |
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| 03:31:51 | FromDiscord | <albassort> nim 3? |
| 03:32:04 | FromDiscord | <albassort> we just got nim 2 |
| 03:36:22 | FromDiscord | <janakali> nim 4 wen? |
| 03:46:55 | FromDiscord | <lainlaylie> skip 4 please, it's unlucky |
| 03:48:55 | FromDiscord | <albassort> NIM死 |
| 03:49:16 | FromDiscord | <lainlaylie> 😱 |
| 04:32:37 | FromDiscord | <muddmaker> In reply to @Robyn "They actually want to": Isn't the whole point of nimony to not do this? |
| 04:50:32 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> sure, but considering Araq wants Nimony to be backwards compatible as much as possible, idk, doesn't seem too easy↵(@muddmaker) |
| 04:51:26 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> because if you have to support poorly defined features (defined as in, how they were originally implemented) in that state, because fixing it breaks backwards compat... you've already dug a bit of a hole |
| 04:51:44 | FromDiscord | <muddmaker> Well, looking at the nimony repo, there's a v2 plugin for backwards compat which uses the current nim compiler to spit out NIF that goes into the rest of the compiler system |
| 04:53:06 | FromDiscord | <muddmaker> That should, in theory, allow for limited compatibility with existing code and incremental adoption of the new Nim v3 mechanics |
| 04:53:07 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> so now they gotta maintain the cruft of the old compiler alongside the new one, ahh... \:P |
| 04:54:41 | FromDiscord | <muddmaker> It's likely a migration aid and not something that'll have to be around long term |
| 04:55:02 | FromDiscord | <muddmaker> It's not like Nim is as big as .Net with old enterprise codebases sitting around |
| 05:04:54 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> that's true yeah |
| 05:09:55 | FromDiscord | <muddmaker> The biggest thing missing from nimony that I don't see in differences.md is the JS backend |
| 05:10:15 | FromDiscord | <griffith1deadly> also cpp |
| 05:10:19 | FromDiscord | <griffith1deadly> for now |
| 05:11:54 | FromDiscord | <muddmaker> I've at least seen C++ referenced in issues, though |
| 05:12:35 | FromDiscord | <muddmaker> The JS backend actually puts Nim in a unique position, being a low level systems language that can target the web without wasm |
| 05:16:20 | FromDiscord | <griffith1deadly> nim js useless without std libraries |
| 05:16:38 | FromDiscord | <griffith1deadly> and i think no one want to maintain that in core |
| 05:17:09 | FromDiscord | <muddmaker> A lot of modern web app techniques require the frontend and backend to be written in the same languages |
| 05:17:27 | FromDiscord | <muddmaker> But JS sucks on the backend while WASM sucks on the frontend |
| 05:19:11 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> the JS backend is prolly too important not to add to Nimony |
| 05:21:17 | FromDiscord | <griffith1deadly> In reply to @muddmaker "The JS backend actually": and actually using nim js for something harder that just some dom is hell |
| 05:21:39 | FromDiscord | <griffith1deadly> all integration with libraries is just `.importjs.` |
| 05:22:01 | FromDiscord | <griffith1deadly> and you will leave 90 percent of time for correct bindings |
| 05:22:05 | FromDiscord | <griffith1deadly> like with cpp |
| 05:25:37 | FromDiscord | <muddmaker> In reply to @griffith1deadly "and actually using nim": Does this mean that no one should try to make it better? |
| 05:25:49 | FromDiscord | <griffith1deadly> yes |
| 05:26:01 | FromDiscord | <griffith1deadly> use the frontend languages as is |
| 05:26:08 | FromDiscord | <griffith1deadly> javascript and typescript |
| 05:26:42 | FromDiscord | <muddmaker> In reply to @muddmaker "But JS sucks on": Reiterating this |
| 05:26:49 | FromDiscord | <Elegantbeef> Why TS over Nim? 😄 |
| 05:27:23 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> that's probably because no-one wants to touch the JS backend↵(@griffith1deadly) |
| 05:27:25 | FromDiscord | <muddmaker> TS is good for working with JS. It's just JS with type annotations. The semantics are identical |
| 05:27:44 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> yeah but JS sucks \:p↵(@griffith1deadly) |
| 05:27:54 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> TS too |
| 05:28:00 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> TS is just JS with types |
| 05:28:15 | FromDiscord | <muddmaker> In reply to @Robyn "that's probably because no-one": If only there were a major rewrite of the Nim toolchain happening where this could be improved... |
| 05:29:50 | FromDiscord | <griffith1deadly> In reply to @Robyn "yeah but JS sucks": then don't write frontend? or use template engines |
| 05:30:19 | FromDiscord | <muddmaker> Tell that to the job market /shrug |
| 05:30:39 | FromDiscord | <griffith1deadly> imagine see nim js in the job market |
| 05:34:32 | FromDiscord | <griffith1deadly> i personally don't like the idea of a version 3 language "core" providing a js backend as well. don't get me wrong, but there should be integration from outside for that, not creating a monolith again like in nim 2 |
| 05:37:11 | FromDiscord | <griffith1deadly> and with nim 3 module plugins you already can make nim to js like nim 2 |
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| 05:43:08 | FromDiscord | <muddmaker> I guess the way to know for sure would be to try and implement it and see if nimony needs to change to make it work |
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| 06:57:32 | FromDiscord | <albassort> is there a nim docs t hat produces ascii output |
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| 08:55:49 | FromDiscord | <Zoom> The funny thing about nimdoc is that while it's a mix of md/rst, there's no option to export docs in their native format just stripping the nim code. |
| 09:01:44 | FromDiscord | <heysokam> As with everything tooling in nim, nimdoc is very half-baked |
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| 10:29:19 | FromDiscord | <randomstranger0812> What would be nice would be wasm support |
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| 11:12:00 | FromDiscord | <heysokam> I'd argue that a general laser-focus on tooling, in general, would be nice↵Wasm and everything in between↵Instead we keep chasing the next new big feature 🙁 |
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| 11:46:18 | FromDiscord | <steamhacker_1837> If I were to create a Nim-native POSIX library, would it benefit the Nim community? And would there be sufficient demand? |
| 11:47:03 | FromDiscord | <steamhacker_1837> (edit) "benefit" => "helpful to" |
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| 12:29:18 | FromDiscord | <albassort> In reply to @steamhacker_1837 "If I were to": feel like that might be useful to someone but by the time you're using low level posix stuff you're probably already using other c things |
| 12:29:39 | FromDiscord | <albassort> it would be most beneficial to the NLVM project because they have yet to work out clang stuff |
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| 13:04:16 | FromDiscord | <heysokam> In reply to @steamhacker_1837 "If I were to": sounds like a project that you should do for your own learning and sense of realization |
| 13:04:59 | FromDiscord | <heysokam> saying that because implementations in C exist, and its platform dependent, so seeing the value in it might be hard↵Unless you do it because you really want to learn it |
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| 13:29:42 | FromDiscord | <lainlaylie> it would be cool to be able to say "we have our own posix library" |
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| 13:57:42 | FromDiscord | <aintea> In reply to @heysokam "I'd argue that a": I believe that a language cannot go real bad as long as it has rock solid tooling |
| 13:57:46 | FromDiscord | <aintea> Just look at gleam |
| 13:57:52 | FromDiscord | <aintea> Rock solid tooling |
| 13:57:54 | FromDiscord | <aintea> Mid language |
| 13:58:05 | FromDiscord | <aintea> Still appreciated by most that use it and by those that don't use it |
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| 14:05:49 | FromDiscord | <thearchivalone> Today, I'm learning how to implement an sqlite database into my code |
| 14:21:48 | FromDiscord | <Robyn [She/Her]> In reply to @aintea "I believe that a": yeah, Nim's tooling is often agreed to be the worst part of the language |
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| 15:54:15 | FromDiscord | <griffith1deadly> In reply to @battery.acid.bubblegum "yeah, Nim's tooling is": ||brainfuck lsp||| |
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| 15:58:24 | xolitude | when trying to build nim 2.2.4 and running "./koch boot -d:release" and "./koch tools" i get this error: https://pbin.nadeko.net/?f00dc4863dcfcc69#HasP6jp5G4KZXKa3doGjq3PiXesfYLFYU2aysv42uJ9S |
| 15:59:02 | xolitude | can anybody provide some insight on why this happens? |
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| 16:12:31 | FromDiscord | <leorize> your DNS is broken? |
| 16:27:36 | xolitude | DNS works |
| 16:30:25 | FromDiscord | <leorize> can you ping github.com? |
| 16:40:33 | xolitude | yep |
| 16:40:54 | xolitude | i figured out the problem tho, i built nim with wifi off |
| 16:42:19 | FromDiscord | <leorize> lol |
| 17:17:22 | FromDiscord | <albassort> leo if i wanted to make a super simple nim LSP |
| 17:17:43 | FromDiscord | <albassort> all it does it track the definitions of procs, and templates, when possible |
| 17:17:48 | FromDiscord | <albassort> so gd works |
| 17:18:01 | FromDiscord | <albassort> (edit) "all it does it track the definitions of procs, ... andmacros" added "templates," | "templates," => "macros" |
| 17:18:18 | FromDiscord | <albassort> maybe return types when possible, it has no compiler |
| 17:18:30 | FromDiscord | <albassort> does this lexer exist or would i need to make my own |
| 17:20:52 | FromDiscord | <leorize> you can just use the compiler's parser |
| 17:21:15 | FromDiscord | <leorize> it's small and gives you a bunch of nimnode-like |
| 17:21:29 | FromDiscord | <leorize> then scan through that to capture your procs and stuff |
| 17:21:38 | FromDiscord | <leorize> no compiling involved, just parsing |
| 17:22:33 | FromDiscord | <albassort> I find that the because nim 's too much of a shit show and incremental compiling doesn't really a thing, the lsps just aren't practical to run |
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| 17:23:05 | FromDiscord | <leorize> if you only use a parser and work on untyped AST it's pretty reasonable |
| 17:23:13 | FromDiscord | <albassort> yeah im sure that would be fine |
| 17:23:26 | FromDiscord | <albassort> if its slow i could just write my own shouldn't be too hard |
| 17:23:32 | FromDiscord | <leorize> tree-sitter-nim is also an option as a parser, but obviously it won't be as accurate as the real thing |
| 17:23:53 | FromDiscord | <albassort> i find it has an issue with folds in nvim sometimes |
| 17:23:57 | FromDiscord | <leorize> I do have to wonder if anyone made a tree-sitter powered lsp |
| 17:24:00 | FromDiscord | <albassort> it kinda breaks seems fragile |
| 17:24:48 | FromDiscord | <albassort> of course with macros and templates making the lsp works becomes pretty unsustainable |
| 17:25:13 | FromDiscord | <leorize> you're probably seeing this\: https://github.com/tree-sitter/tree-sitter/issues/4534↵(@albassort) |
| 17:25:49 | FromDiscord | <leorize> for the nim grammar it basically meant that edits after a `var` can temporary corrupts the syntax tree |
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| 17:25:54 | FromDiscord | <leorize> pretty annoying |
| 17:27:42 | FromDiscord | <leorize> you can also blame nim for being such a pita to parse, though 😛 |
| 17:29:46 | FromDiscord | <albassort> hmm |
| 17:30:23 | FromDiscord | <albassort> i wrote an html parser that was going to be a portable handlebars parser |
| 17:30:33 | FromDiscord | <albassort> is there such a thing as an easy parser? |
| 17:30:55 | FromDiscord | <albassort> well, i mean, for human readable f ormats |
| 17:58:47 | FromDiscord | <Trayambak> "Easy parser" is an oxymoron unless it's a key value parser↵(@albassort) |
| 19:02:28 | FromDiscord | <0xfab_10> s-expressions and rpn are pretty trivial |
| 19:04:18 | FromDiscord | <leorize> LR(1) languages are relatively easy, all things considered↵(@albassort) |
| 19:08:09 | FromDiscord | <0xfab_10> parsing is kinda the easiest part, unless you want error recovery |
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| 23:01:31 | FromDiscord | <intellij_gamer> In reply to @albassort "all it does it": https://github.com/ire4ever1190/nimsight/↵Sounds similar to how my lsp works↵Just parses to get the outline |
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